You are listening to a Moisture Festival podcast. On today's episode, we welcome in a founder of the Moisture Festival and also Cirque de Flambe Mac De V. We learn about Mac's role on the Fremont Arts Council, what it's like to be the safety tech for Burning Man and for the city. Yeah, we also hear about the creation of the famous Fremont troll and how Mac regularly maintains it and we're proud to say that this episode will be the most bleeped-out episode. Thank you Mac. So we're gonna get to it. Today's guest is the founder of Cirque de Flambe, Trollouine, Trollouine, and the Moisture Festival. We welcome in Mac De V, which I'm still unclear if that's a correct pronunciation, but it's the fun way of saying Davis, right? There's a story to it. I testified against a Chinese nationalist and I decided I was going to disappear. Smart, smart. Usually people go with completely different names, but throw them off the scent with the French pronunciation. All right, so how do you describe what you do? This is a weird one because you do a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, and then sometimes I don't know what I do for the Moisture Fest. I am... Or just in general, just in general. You meet someone at a party? Well, at a party, I would say, "Well, they would ask me if I was doing this." I'd say, "Well, I'm part of the Moisture Fest." And they go, "Well, what do you do?" And I go, "Well, it's hard to say I do whatever anyone wants me to do." And I do a lot, but then again, I don't do a lot either. I'm what they call a producer, a problem solver. Because you'll be up on the scissor lifts sometimes. You do rigging as well, I think. So you do it all. Yes, but I've given up the rigging to the younger guys. I'm out of that. So take us back, Mac, to where did you grow up? Where are you from? Well, I grew up in Olympia, not too far away. I lived there for 12 years, and then my parents moved to Seattle over on Queen Anne, right above the 1962 World's Fair. I'm dating myself on that. So how old were you when you moved? I was 12 years old, and I had to go to a four-year high school, Queen Anne High, as a freshman, and then proceeded all through there to my senior year when I dropped out, and I went south. Let's just say I went south. For the winter or for a few years. I'd stayed ahead at Haydashbury for about three months before I got sick of it. Oh, yeah. The highlight at that time, Hayd was already in decline, and not a very fun place. So how did you sort of get involved in, because you were part of a lot of different performing organizations, Cirque de Flambe, the Fremont Players. How did you get involved? You came back to Seattle at some point. How did you get involved in all of that? Well, actually, all of that involvement to about 28. I discovered I had an arthritic condition, and it stopped me from doing a lot of athletic things, climb mountains, raft rivers, run marathons, all that died. Were you doing that before? I was depressed. I was doing all that before I was before the arthritis stopped at all. And I became very depressed. It was not a good part of my life, and my wife at that time said, "Hey, Fremont's having some kind of new parade. Let's go down there." So I went down the day before the first Fremont Solstice Parade, and the next day I was in the parade, and I became part of that Fremont Arts Council, and the first president, and I helped build a parade, and now 34 some odd years later I've been in every parade, and that kind of started this whole thing of production producing things. I was also writing plays and Seattle Fringe Festival. I was able to mount different plays for a number of years, and I was just trying to go find fun things to do, and Burning Man seemed to be a lot of fun. So I went there, and of course, what does that do? You're gone. You know, your mind explodes, and I got lucky. Crimson Rose, the Artistic Director, by chance had seen a show I did down there, and she was impressed. I got lucky, and she asked me to help them with safety. The next thing I know is I'm now their safety team leader. I'm basically the last guy you've got to get permission from to burn your sculpture down for years, 23 years. Finally, I finally had to retire from that, but during that time, I conceived of a circus. I wanted to be a clown. I wanted to be on stage. Lou, you know this. You got to be on stage. How can I crawl on that? So, yeah, so nobody would hire me, of course, you know, and I'd taken classes, you know, UMO classes, freehold classes, UW classes, and you know, frankly, I'm not a good clown. And somewhere in there, I've conceived that I should start my own circus, so, but I like fire. I like entropy. So, I figured out, let's do a show with fire in every act. Oh, wait a minute, let's have pyrotechnics in every other act. Let's just put this all together, and who wants to do it with me? And there's a concept called duocracy. And it's when you have an idea, and other people become enthusiastic and motivated to help you. And the next thing I know is I've got about 30 people 40, 50 now, and they all wanted to do this, especially since Crimson Rose was giving me tickets, the Burning Man, 25 tickets at a time. And I would use these tickets. We'd be on the Espinade. We'd do one show. And as those 12 years on the Playa, I remember just before the show, I'd look out about 30, 40,000 people standing there for over an hour and a half, two hours, while we set up. And then we would do the show and people would roar. Wow. And that show was, oh, sorry, go ahead. Well, that show had acts I couldn't do in Seattle, one of which was called the human, wild human animal acts. And that's where you pull three people out of the crowd. You don't want them to drunk. This is that Burning Man. And you put them on little pedestals, and then you say, you want to win a bottle of tequila. That always works real well. And they go, yeah, I say, okay, strip naked. So they'd be naked. And you know, the first thing they had to do was limbo under a flaming bar. And then we had a flaming hula hoop. They had the hula hoop. And you know, the women weren't a little cautious about the limbo, but the flaming hula hoop they loved. And then if they still could do all that, we had them do jump rope, flaming jump rope. And of course, the guys were not very good to women were. And then I had to bring out double Dutch, flaming double watch. And then it, you know, here you are with this. And I would show them that'd be okay. I would jump into and let the rope slap me and I'd just push them away. Because I was wearing a bunch of safety gear. You were not naked. You were not naked. Watch us do it completely covered in non flammable things that can burn my skin. You're going to do it. Yeah, yeah. It turned out it was a low grade kerosene and it really doesn't stick to you. There's one part of all this that I got away with. I spent 30 years as a state safety inspector, the irony of all this. And that allowed me to get away with a lot of stuff. When people would say, that's dangerous, I would say, well, not really. Here's how you deal with it. And they go, oh, well, go ahead, do it. And I'd say, sure. And of course, at that point, I'd go over to my, what would be normally called gas cannons. And I'd say, it's a batard. And the fire marshal would say, demonstrate it. And I would shoot it off once and it'd be a 30 foot ball of fire. Fire marshal would go, hmm. I think you're going to have to do that in a bigger space. I'd say, yeah, no problem. And away we go. Anyway, how did you become a state safety inspector? What did you inspect? Everything. I'm a specialist toxicologist. So it wasn't related to like fire. You're like, no, no, I got this. I got this. Yeah. Well, it normally say people do safety only. Then there's another group of us to do chemicals, radiation, biologicals. And that's what I am. And I would be the hazmat guy when there'd be a real and hazmat spill or an unknown chemical radiation, biological issue. They push me forward and say, what do you think? Did you have to go in with like these big, the big, like, you know, suits that they had at E.T. I had my own. Had your name on the back. Had my own. You know, the big bubble suit running around. Do you have to go to school for that? Like, like, what's, what's the, what's your background? What's, what background is necessary to do that job? Well, it's, uh, I have two degrees out of the University of Washington, one in biology and the other in, um, occupational toxicology. They call industrial hygiene is another term for it. I would just miss no more. And just grown up, were you all into industrial hygiene? Yeah. Wipe your butt clean. Yeah. So what's the craziest thing you've saw as an inspector? Craziest? Hmm, dangerous? Sure. Hmm. Well, there was, uh, times in people be dealing with chemicals that, uh, could really hurt you quickly or long term cancer. Um, or people that were doing things with their employees that, that killed them. And I had to go back in and see that they couldn't do it. Um, I really shouldn't name names. It's all behind me. Um, basically the worst of the worst is what I did. And then I trained a lot of people for years. I was a supervisor. I pulled me back out of the field. Now, were you going to doing the burning man sort of stuff while you were still a state supervisor or had you retired at that point? No, I still was. And that was the cred. My credentials went to Bureau of Land Management. Ooh. When I said, I'm going to write their safety program and this will, you know, protect everybody. It was, you know, about that thick. I wrote just everything I could under the book in it, you know, because I would inspect those kinds of things and knew about it. And that's probably the reason why Crimson was so nice to me. So then you're walking around burning man, you see the structure that someone wants to burn down. You're like, that needs more supports or like, Oh, no, no, no, no. I would walk around and look at structures and say, how much gasoline do we need to put on? Ah, I'm in charge of the burn. Okay. I'm the guy that, well, there is an interesting story, but this one, it goes like this. So the second you're in there, Crimson says, Mac, we got the guy doing a full body burn. He's going to run up the hay bales under the man's leg, wave his hands and run down the other side. And what do you think we should do for safety? I said, well, I'll put a safety guy, one of my safety guys here and another guy back down here when he gets there. And I'll be up on top just about eight feet away where the fire extinguisher sounds good. The guy runs up this, you know, she lights him on fire. He runs up the stairs, raises his hands and lights all the fireworks. All the fireworks are now just a roar when above him. And he turns and runs down the other side. And I know he's got to run for at least a minute to get all the, all the liquid off of him so he can be put out. We can't put him out. He has to move around for a minute. And I look there and I can see him running across the pliad. And my friends, my team is following him. And I'm up there. Then I go, Hey, I got to get out of here. Probably move also. And I take I run over and I stop right between the man's leg because that's the way down. And I look and it's all firecrackers. Just nothing but like, oh, it's just a rain of firecrackers. And I was able to run down, grab my other seam to run like hell. I live again. So when they're when they burn the man, are you in charge of that too? So like, how do they tell us how they ignite that? What's the process in that? And how do they put it out? Well, the first year or two, yes, but what they did was they hired someone who had better credentials in mind. I did not have a state Nevada power license. So they were required to have one. And for the first year or two, first couple of years, I'd be I'd go out and help put together the fireworks. But then they brought in a team and and I think I moved back to just handling the burns. And to burn the man, first you got to set off all the fireworks and they they had some really beautiful displays. And then they'd end up with these large fire pots, basically a big rent cylinder, probably around three feet tall. In the bottom of it would be a pound of gunpowder with electronic fuse to it. And then they put a big bag of gasoline down on top of that. And they'd have about eight of these. And they were situated around the legs. And after the fireworks are all going, they'd ignite these flower pots of fire. And they would just boot. Flames would reach up through the man all this wood structure. And they had bags of fire other gas up there would explode and rain fire. And yeah. Oh yeah. Well, I only I at about 12 years into Burning Man. City fire marshals said to me, Mac, you're a bad influence. And he stopped me from doing any Cirque de Flambe. And that stopped. That was the end of the Cirque de Flambe. And that's the start of the moisture pests. Now real quick, because you mentioned you weren't pyrotechnic licensed in Nevada, but you are in Washington, right? Yeah, I hold one in Canada, Washington, I had Canada is my favorite state. Yeah. Yeah. I got one of the big ones up there, public display supervisor means I got credit up there. Anyway, do you have do you have that thing like where when you fly on an airplane, you like show them the car, you're like, Hey, I'm going to set off your detector. Yeah, I'm very conscious of handling fireworks before I know. I don't say a word. I don't want the, you know, I know you're going to sit in the back of the plane. So to be licensed, is it mostly a bureaucratic thing? Like would you have to like demonstrate to someone that you can like, I don't know, blow up a porta potty safely? Well, I got a story about a porta pot. But we'll say that basically, real quickly, you do, you work six shows for a licensed pyro. And then you submit your, your application and you're required to get 80% on a very simple test. And they give you a license. And then, but it's hard to shoot fireworks without dealing with your local fire marshal. And in Seattle, they used to cost me for the search shows in Seattle, $330 for like a month worth of fireworks shows. And they change it to $1,500 a night. Wow. And that's the reason why we, we couldn't afford it. And if we didn't make the money to go to Burning Man, we couldn't go to Burning Man. Yeah. And so I just remain part of what's called the fire arts safety team at Burning Man and gave up the CERC. And that's the time when I said, the one thing I really, really love is Oregon Country Fair. And you guys have heard other people. And I loved, you know, Du Canavaux stage left, you know, Tim first, you know, and there was all this beautiful, funny, funny, vaudeville. And I wanted to see it in Seattle. And that's when I talked Tim, Simon Neil, bless his soul. And Sandy Neil. And I figured I'd better talk to Ron Bailey. And we, I asked him to meet us. We met at a pool hall just off First Avenue in Seattle. And we sat around drinking whiskey thinking, how could this happen? And Ron said, I know where to get a tent. Reverend Chumley. And I said, I know a place in Fremont, which is just a parking lot. And Tim goes, I can, I think I can find enough performers. Let's do it. And Sandy goes, I'll publicize it. And Simon went, sure. The parking lot, was it, did you just like, was it a vacant lot? Or did you like, you knew the guy who ran the Albersons? Oh, no, it was Susie Burke. You guys don't know about Susie is the queen of rents. I wrote a play about the Queen of rents. And in the end of it, we throw the Queen in the canal. She owns a majority of Fremont and is a political monster in the city. And what Susie wants Susie gets. So you contact this person who owns a bunch of real estate in Fremont. And you say, Hey, we got, we're interested in putting together a show and tell us how these conversations are going. Well, Susie at that time was a bit of a enemy to the arts. She's helping gentrify Fremont. And there was this issue even with the troll, which represents gentrification. You know, we used to make a lot of fun of Susie as the landlord, you know, Fremont, the queen of rents. And she was, she, what she did was she, she has a U Park, a company called the U Park parking lot. They control it, things for her. And so she says, go talk to them. And you owe me. And I went, okay. And we, they basically said, it'll cost you X amount of money, which is pretty cheap. U Park is a big sponsor of arts in Fremont. Can't get around them. Can't do it without them. So we got the lot pretty much, you know, diamond a dollar, very inexpensive. The cost was what we do. This was spring and it was rain. And we got the tent up, but it's cold. Now we need heaters. Oh, by the way, I need to take a piss. Got to have porta potties. Oh my God. And we need a stage. Okay, I got a stage. I'll find a stage. And so I kept putting more things in there. What do you need? What do we need? What do we, what do the performers need? And so the one thing I didn't arrange was that some guy showed up with a bunch of beer. So blessing. You know, here we are working at someone at that time is like, you know, noon, let's drink. Says the safety inspector. Yeah. Hey, I'm off duty, man. I'm just a human. So we, we ran to two nights. Is that recall? No. God, I can't even remember now. I think it was two nights. And of course, it costs us a lot of money. In fact, we lost $3,000. And all of us put in $600 a piece. And we, the guy with the beer, he showed up to pick up his kegs and asked us how it was going. And when I said, well, I doubt if we can do this, we lost three grand. He goes, I'm sorry to hear that. Why don't you come on over to my place? We'll have a beer. So we go over, Ron's talking to him. I, for some reason, I think I was cleaning up and Ron was over there. And the guy runs hails, my kale. And so my kale walked Ron into the big warehouse and said, do you think you could do it inside here? And here's what Ron saw. He walked in and floor is dirty. And there's stacks of beer kegs, pallets, I think three deep on each side, you know, and the place was, they're really up high. And, you know, there's no bathroom, there's no stage. And let's Ron's heart. And so he goes, sure, we can do this. He drags me over. And I go in what's going to be the green room. You remember the green room? Yeah. Remember the green room? It was a shithole. It was, it was dirt. And then there was, you know, the walls were full of racks of dirt. And Mike doesn't, he doesn't really clean the bathroom. So if everything was a trash, and it took what? It took a while to clean out. I don't even know how many days I don't want to think about. We clean the green room, you know, I built all these partitions. So we'd have the women's dressing room in the men's dressing room. You remember how small they were? Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking of shrinking you guys. Anyway, yeah. And then Mike Hale became a real angel. He put in sprinklers, $50,000 worth of sprinklers. And that was opened up the capacity. And then he put in the bathrooms. Ron and I built a stage. Ron had an idea for a stage. I said, yeah, let's do it. We need a stage. And then everybody helped. What was wonderful was that we made a call out for volunteers. And because of the Fremont Arts Council, they turned out in droves. Wow. People came out of the woodwork. The first good first five years, all that other stuff was built, was handled by volunteers, who would be in the parade, and who would come now and do this project. I ran the parade. So I just kept saying, if you want to be in the parade, you're going to have to build it. You got to build a stage. Yeah. Well, yeah. There was a real blessing from the community. We were lucky. And once the show's got going, there was no turning back. No. We had about 250 seats, and we'd cram in 300 people standing on this. I remember last shows people bagging to be in. And there'd be a point where I'd find people sneaking in through the back door or sneaking in through the bar, and Mike Hale with a group of about 20 people going, "Well, I own the place, so I get to come in my own place." I said, "Well, you can stand." And they would stand for the show. So the first year at Hale's was obviously the venue got better. But how did you get more people there? What was the second year like? Did you lose money the second year also? How were you convincing more people to come? Well, it was a lot of word of mouth those first years. Ron did a really good job of advertising. He did everything possible. In fact, some things I kept scratching my head. You want buses with our anad on them? We did. Some place around, we got these big bus ads. And it really was word of mouth. And I think we ran three weeks, and then we ran four weeks. And then we ran other venues. And then we thought, "Well, Vodville, they used to run all day long. Let's try one of those." And there's a limit to what's reasonable. There's a limit to, "Oh, that seems like a good idea." However, at the end of the day, after five shows on a Saturday, we swore never to do that again. He killed us. I mean, that'd be interesting to do once, and that's about it. But what really took off was Tim talking to performers, guys like you. And once they came here, once they were on the boards up there, and the audience was enthusiastic. And the audience, as you know, loves everybody. You think of what, that plastic, fantastic, that woman walking through on top of the crowd, getting to the stage, stomping on people. "Oh, sorry. Yeah, there's moments." Yeah, the people, I can't remember their name, the big plastic balls. Yeah, and how, one of the, it turns out in an old Vod villain, it rolled over him, and this is terror collapsed. We thought we had lost him. Oh, no. He was so smashed. Did they go over that with you ahead of time? Like the safety person? Oh, no. No. Great tradition. Don't tell the safety guy. No, he'll say, hmm. So how many shows do you think you've attended? Have you been to ever, you haven't been to every show? Have you been to every show? No. It turns out there was about a year or two into it because I started being concerned about the floor. It's a brewery, and I think one of my inspections was mold and a brewery, and I had to talk to them. I realized our floor was kind of toxic. So we ended up sweeping before we disinfected, and within a few days, I went on a new medication and I came down with some kind of brain infection. They didn't know. I figured it was, my doctor was, they didn't know. I stayed home. I figured I was going to die. No. I'm not going to fuck that. And somehow, and so after that, every year I put a respirator on. I personally go in there and sweep bleach all over the floor. Man. Commitment. You got to live, man. You live to do things. So do you feel like you have successfully carried out your vision? Has it gone beyond what you envisioned? It's gone beyond. We knew there was a group of us called the producers, and we were the people that kind of looked ahead and tried to deal with problems that we had from the year before. Where we were going, we knew that this idea of shares was kind of a quasi-legal quasi, and we ended up moving into contractor relationships. But then it flowed back into sharing with some people that were doing some of the heavy lifting. And that became squishy again. And there was, we knew that, especially when COVID hit, the cost of doing shows doubled, maybe tripled. And financially, we were dedicated to cheap seats. If there's anything we wanted, we wanted people in to see you. We wanted, okay, that was not paying you guys a no. What you talked to us a lot about, and we did our best. It was a balance we had to play, and that'll be something for the near future that we're going to have to deal with. I've been on the board since the inception, and I'm not even sure what job I have anymore. You're the mold sweeper. I'll be the, you know, like the Starfleet Academy. I'll be the gardener. Yeah. Over the American leaves up, and someone goes, "Mac, why did they do that? Oh, well, some odd years ago, that's what we thought we'd do." Yeah. Well, you have the institutional knowledge. Institutionalize, you mean? Well, I mean, to think that you've created a show or festival that has ran for 20 years and have put a ton of butts in seats, given access for these performers to get in front of amazing audiences, I mean, that's a huge accomplishment, 20 years of that. That's crazy. It is crazy, but to me, it was just satisfaction. Well, here's the real point of it. Do you know that I get on stage once in a while? I know. I was going to ask you about that. I'm, honestly, I'm not good enough to be on our own stage. I find that totally ironic. It's just a blessing to sneak onto the stage for whatever reason. And for people that laugh. Yeah. So you've done, have you done a couple things? I think Chicken Sinatra is one of them. You've been in the Booby Trap players, I think. Yeah. Anything else? The fountain? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I got fired from that. I'm a spitter, not a, not a streamer. Ah, you spray. I spray. Yeah. I got fired. So what is it like for an organizer, someone who has been there from the beginning to be able to go on stage and do what you, what you enjoy doing? I understand what it's like for you when you are in the zone. There's a concept of basketball players, volleyball players before I couldn't do anything. I ran a volleyball team that won state champions and all sorts of and musicians. They have a moment when they feel in the zone, when everybody has a sense of the other people, they're all listening, they're all perceptive and they're doing something in a beautiful way like music. And that moment can occur on a stage. You guys know, you know, I've, I've, I've seen you guys when the audience is in the palm of your hand, your guys are, are sailing along. Yeah. Well, it's easy for that. For me, I said, but it's easy. It's easy when you have a gift. Gentlemen, I have a gift. So I, I, I'm jealous as hell and my gift is not as big as yours now. Just enough, just enough for me to get that feeling. And every now and then, it falls under the steam. I think, I think you should be mandatory that you do something once a year in the fest. Yeah. Well, it's usually April 1st, Tim, Tim will call me and go, what do you want to do, man? There's a bit of hesitation in his voice. And I always go, yeah, well, what should I do? Yeah. I'm going to steal one of Louie's notes, but I think he wrote down that you were involved in getting and creating the Fremont troll. Is that correct? What's your role on it? Because you're on the plaque at the Fremont troll. I'm known as the troll keeper. I repair it. The four artists, so I was the president of the Arts Council at the time, and the four artists won a grant, and they invited all the artists who did at that time still live in the community to help them build it. And so I was one of the helpers. And I Halloween, the first Halloween night, I'm sitting inside the head, it's hollow, and I am smoking a joint and I'm drinking out of a bottle of scotch. And my buddy says, God, isn't this the greatest? I wish we could do this every year. Well, you tell me that. And I'm now, right now, I'm in the midst of planning trolling ween. Yeah, I've been running trolling ween for 34 years. Holy sh*t, operas, musicals, anthropological things, destructions, fire. Oh, if you guys want to see the breadth of trolling, which worth your time, YouTube has a video called trolloween 2020. Almost everything on it is banned by the fire marshal. And there's one where I'm standing next to him. And when it occurs, I can hear him sucking air. He wasn't ready for a full body bird. And as much as I told him, as much as I described everything to him and introduced him to a friend of mine from Hollywood who teaches full body burns for it to happen in front of him. And then his comment was, I don't want to see that. So I love, I love pushing those guys. Yeah, how do you feel about the trolls new popularity? Because when I was a kid, that was a place we went to go drink, you know, and now it's a big tourist spot. You were probably one of those kids who threw rocks and damaged it. No, come over and talk to you guys. No, we're, we were very respectful underaged drinking at the troll. Well, I'm just in the last year, the city has shown up and have done some new landscaping, and it's a lot better, but it's being trashed. Today, I've got to go over the troll and put some cement over a couple areas where they've taken rocks and just smashed. No, no. Well, the car was hollow for a while and people kept breaking into it. So we filled it full of concrete. Nothing in there. Everyone thought there was some kind of treasure or, you know, something for the time capsule that may. That's what someone who hid the treasure inside it would say. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Mac, man, we thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Is there anything that we missed that you want to insert into this for for the time capsule? No, except to thank you. I'm really gratified that I've had a chance to be a part of your podcast. Oh, man, we haven't done your coattails. We thank you for being letting us be a part of your show. Yeah, you created this. What are you talking about? Like we are. Well, you guys, you guys are what people remember. My intention was not to sit in the back just far enough to be on the edge of people might see me. I'm gone. You guys, you stand up there bold. You take the shots. No, no, I don't think I think that's the easy part. I think the hard part is putting in the time the 10 hours of scrubbing the floor and building the stage, us showing up and hank drinking beers with our buddies. I don't think that is the hard part. That's not the hard part. The hard part is the organization, the communicating with people going to seeing the opportunities as they have in the organizational knowledge that go, we need a porta potty. Yeah, go into meetings. Like, Louis and I have never been to a meeting before. Like, what is that? You were just talking about people having jobs really going for like eight hours in a row. So, but that's the thing is like, I think it is really like a sort of thankless job because you know, you're not getting, you know, we go up there for eight minutes and we get the sort of affirmation. And I think a lot of the people who are volunteers and behind the scenes, they don't get the sort of same affirmation that we get as performers. And I think they deserve it more. Yeah. You know, well, once in a while, we stand up there and say who we are. If for your right, imagine for about 17 years, every Thursday, I would meet with the other producers. And we'd talk through stuff, right up, pretty much right up to the time of COVID. And after COVID, it changed a little bit. But I, you know, every seven o'clock, every Thursday, I knew I was going to meet with Ron and Tim and other people, Charlie. Many, many people over, many, many years. Yeah. Well, I want a great community too, right? You get to see your friends and create stuff with your friends, which is awesome. And create something special. It was, they're all dear friends. So if people want to get a hold of you, how can they do that? Maybe I don't want to look. Fair enough. You leave a note inside the troll. There you go. Well, spray painting your note on the troll. And Mac, we'll see it when he's cleaning it off. They've got to come to show. Yes. And talk to you directly face to face. Yeah, ideal face to face. Well, Mac, thank you so much for creating a helping create an awesome festival that we all love. And thanks for taking the time to talk to us today. Thank you very much. I'm gratified. Thanks. We want to thank you for listening to the moisture festival podcast. If you haven't bought tickets yet for the festival, you can do that at moisture festival.org. You can also find out information about volunteering or supporting it financially as well. Just click on the contribute button. You can also find moisture festival. They are on Facebook, Instagram and YouTube. If you want to check out more details on any of those social network sites, if you want to find out more information on Louis and I, we do a podcast together that is completely different than this podcast. And it is called the odd and off beat podcast. And you can find that on any platform that you get your podcast at. If you would like to find out information on Louis and I's shows, you can do so by visiting Louis site, which is Louis Fox with two X's dot com and Matt Baker site comedy stunt show dot com spelled the way you would expect it to be spelled. And we want to thank all the volunteers, performers, sponsors, donors, board members, producers of the moisture festival for helping make this thing happen. Absolutely. A lot of moving parts. And they do a wonderful job at creating a very unique experience that you cannot get anywhere else. Have a great day. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening to moisture festival podcast and stay moist.
