Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

First Down with Bennie Fowler: NFL Lauds & Frauds in Week 6, led by pathetic Dallas Cowboys

Broadcast on:: 15 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard and Super Bowl champion former NFL receiver Bennie Fowler praise the Detroit Lions and crush the Dallas Cowboys in this 'Lauds and Frauds' Week 6 edition of First Down with Bennie Fowler on Tuesday, Oct. 15, 2024 @Bleav. Leonard and Fowler also talk about the Lions' enormous loss of Aidan Hutchinson, and they dive into Nick Sirianni's new haircut, the Giants' loss to the Bengals and the Green Bay Packers' complete performance. Leonard and Fowler then drop some power rankings and discuss the league's emerging top teams. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.

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Granger, for the ones who get it done. - Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard and first down with Benny Fowler, week six of the NFL wraps up and we are here to break it down with you with a Super Bowl champion, former NFL wide receiver. We're going to talk about the Aiden Hutchinson injury, what it means for the Detroit Lions, the Dallas Cowboys laying an egg, the turmoil in Philadelphia, the Giants failing to put points on the board in a Sunday night dud against the Cincinnati Bengals, and much more. Stay tuned, that interview coming right up, brought to you by my bookie. My bookie is celebrating its 10th year anniversary and it is rolling out the red carpet for sports bettors. Be here for risk free Thursdays and also use the promo code PATSPICKS at the link in all of my social media profiles and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. 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It's always, it's always, you know, we're coming to talk with you about what's gone on the last Sunday and Sunday night football thinking that, you know, we kind of have a good understanding of what's getting ready to happen. And then things go completely the opposite way or the other way, but that's why the NFL is incredible. Yeah, yeah, it is. It really is a week to week league. Sometimes it's unfair to take one game's result and project it on what it's gonna mean for a team season. Other times it's dead on, like the team that's, they're showing you what they are on the field. And that is who they actually are. So we're gonna get into, we're gonna do a segment here, lods and frauds, where we're gonna either praise a team or call a team out for being total phonies and not real contenders. But I wanna start, Benny, in my opinion, I think one of the bigger storylines here is Aiden Hutchinson fracturing his tibby and his left leg. That of course is the elite pass rusher for the Detroit Lions, seven and a half sacks, seven tackles for loss, 17 quarterback hits. The Lions with an impressive win, obviously, Benny. But my first question for you is, how significant is this injury for the Lions chances to win the Super Bowl? Because they are a contender. And so like, are they in a position where they have to go and get somebody now with Hutchinson out or can they make up for this loss? I don't think they can make up for this loss. I mean, this is one of the key leaders, like you said. Number one, he was leading the league in sacks. Number two, the quarterback hurries. Number three, he's a captain on that team and one of the hearts and souls of that defense. And this defense has been playing extremely well. And he's becoming a superstar in this league. So this is not something that is gonna be easily replaced. This is not a next man up, hey, we're gonna be fine. And we're gonna be able to replace him. You know, you're not gonna be able to replace him just based off of his leadership and his ability. But what the Detroit Lions have to do right now is they need to go out and find a trade. They need to find actually two people. I think they needed to add a pass. I think they needed to add a pass rusher already to compliment Aiden just because, you know, later on in the season, he was gonna get double teams. And can you go find another pass rusher that can beat people one on one? Now I think they need to go find two pass rushers in terms of really, you know, solidifying this defense for the long run because Detroit's serious. And, you know, they're playing well offensively, playing well defensively. But now you're in need of finding a couple pass rushers to help replace Aiden. - Interesting. So the names are crossing my mind, obviously, you know, Max Crosby with the Raiders. Miles Garrett and Cleveland, you know, two situations that look like they're going nowhere fast. Elite players, obviously. Garrett, though, has been banged up this year. But they come to mind also, - He's on the trade block? - No, he's not. I'm just saying, I'm looking around the league right now and saying, okay, which teams are one and four and not going anywhere, right? Do you pick up? - I don't see Cleveland trading Miles Garrett at all. - He's a good player. - I know. But, you know, there's seasons going in the tank, but yeah, you're probably right. But then in a different way, okay. So we have a son Redick with the Jets, you know, not playing. He just switch, ages gets dumped by CAA. Now he's over to Drew Rosenhouse. Can you facilitate something there where he doesn't want to be in New York, doesn't want to play for the Jets? But the Lions say come in here, you know, become a finishing piece on a Super Bowl contender, or even in a less sexy situation, like as he's Ozilari just had an explosive performance finally given more of an opportunity with K-Von Thibodeau out with the Giants. So is that a position where the Giants can maybe get something for a player and you get a bendy edge rusher in Detroit? There's some of the names across my mind. I don't know if you thought of anybody. - You know, I think the Hassan Redick thing sticks out just because he's not on a team right now. It doesn't seem like he would join the Jets. It's just a shit show over there. So will Hassan Redick just, you know, will Drew be able to facilitate that trade and get him over to Detroit? Question is, what type of shape is he in? But I think the Lions need, they need award ideas. We used to call it in Denver. They need somebody who, you know, they need a game record. They need somebody who can get home. And, you know, even before this happened, I think they needed to make a trade on the pass rushing front. Similar to what Detroit, or not Detroit, what the Rams did in the year that they won the sort of goal. You have an incredible player like Aaron Donald in the Detroit Veravan Miller that puts you over the top. - Right, and they had a letter Detroit. They signed letter of Florida for your agency, right? - Right, exactly. So you need that type of pass rusher because pass, you know, what Detroit is gonna come up against and, you know, whether it's Patrick Holmes, whether it's Lamar Jackson, whether it's a CJ Shroud, is that you're gonna have to get to those quarterbacks. And you're gonna have to collapse the pocket 'cause all three of those, they can extend the play, they have great pocket presence, so they're gonna need a pass for us for sure. - Yeah, it's really unfortunate. I mean, you know, you put, there's a lot of important players on this team, but him, Penesoul, Jared Goff, you know, the three guys, I mean, they're irreplaceable on that roster. And like you said too, guys go down in the NFL and teams move on and can win games, but we're not talking about winning next Sunday, we're talking about can you contend for a championship that you were already in the running to go get, not to mention in the best defense in football or the best division in football, I should say, now with the Packers, the Vikings, and even the Bears showing life. So really interesting there, really interesting dilemma there. I will say if Redick ends up on the Lions, you know, if Dan Campbell can't motivate him, no one can. You know, that's what I, - You should be motivated by his agency firing him. I wonder, you know, he needs to get it into his mind, like, hey, you know, the NFL will move on without you. And this, is it the longer you don't play? You're just not valuable, you're not out there. - Yeah, do you think, Benny, do you think pivoting to Redick for a second? Do you think some player, like obviously you want players to be able to advocate for themselves, stand their ground, you know? But when a guy like Redick does something that looks like he's starting to shoot himself in the foot the way Levion Bell did, right? Is that a player and a person who's not getting good advice? Or is he, I'm not saying you can speak exactly on Redick, but I'm just saying, when a player does something like this and starts to seemingly shoot his own career in the foot, how do you view that player's perspective and how do you bring a guy like that back around? 'Cause it almost seems like if someone's that far gone from wanting to accept a contract and wanting to be a member of the team now into mid-October, it would seem hard to get their mindset all the way back into part of a 53-man locker room. - Well, I know Hassan Redick, just from outside looking in, has to have some sense about him to hire Drew Rosenhouse and a nonsense agent. What I will say is that CAA is a very reputable agency and I know, hey, they were giving him some good advice. Hey, it might not have been what he wanted to hear, but I know they were, hey, this is where the giants, or I mean, not the giants, but this is where the jets are at and this is what they're offering. And hey, this is how it compares to the market. Now, if Hassan Redick's trying to reset the market, that's not going to happen or else she would have been paid already. So the question is, is he listening and is he comprehending that advice? But I don't think his advice will be any different, or Drew Rosenhouse's advice won't be any different than what he got at CAA. This is what the jets are offering you in terms of compensation. Hey, you need to show up or this is what it is and like your career is going to go downhill and you are going to now be seen as a problem. And this is going to affect you long-term in terms of how people want to pay you. Now, they're going to watch, they're watching how you handle this. So, yeah, no, it's a good point. I think if I know Drew too, it's a good point about him hiring Rosenhouse. If I know Drew, you know, from my vantage point, if I'm a team, but also just, you know, reputation-wise, to me, Redick's story has to be told in some way that makes him look better than he looks now. And I think what I usually see from Drew Rosenhouse is that he's able to tell that story for his client, but still make it seem like it's coming from the client, if that makes sense, you know? Like instead of hanging the client out to dry to talk for themselves and letting them step in it, you know, that he understands like, let me do the work for him here and then make sure he gets back on the field and plays and understands that. So, yeah, that's really interesting. And in a league where most guys are already on team so you can't shake the league up too much other than maybe a deadline trade here or there, he is an interesting one who's kind of hovering on the periphery, but let's go to our lords and frauds idea here as we go through the league. And let's stay on the Detroit Lions, 47 to nine at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas over the Dallas Cowboys. Benny, I have to say, I'm ashamed that I put my name on Jerry Jones's team after last week's a gritty so-called win in Pittsburgh as I was labeling it. I wanna know from your vantage point, when you come out of this game, are you more impressed with the Lions, so lauding the Lions or disappointed in Dallas revealing themselves as frauds like the Scooby-Doo mask? No, I would say I'm more impressed with what the Lions did. I mean, to whoops somebody's ass at their home, 47 to nine, speaks more to them than what, you know, Dallas being fraud. So what the Lions did, going on the road, putting a complete game together, offense, defense, special teams, the way Jerry Groff is spreading the ball around, the trickery with the plays. Ben Johnson is just doing an incredible job of just the rhythm and the type of plays and the way that he is calling this game. If Detroit is smart, they offer him almost head coaching money to stay. Do not leave this organization because he has such a great field and relationship with Jerry Goff. He understands all of the different types, body types of the tight ends, the receivers, great to see Tim Patrick out there making plays, Kaleef Raymond making plays, who was a former giant. Obviously, I'm in Ross St. Brown and James and Williams doing incredible things and then the two headed monster in the backfield of Mark Umarie in Jameer Gibbs. So there's an incredible roster construction, but no, the Lions definitely, they're more impressive in Dallas, I mean, they should just be ashamed of themselves, but this is what you get when you have an owner who is just not competent in terms of roster construction anymore, who just has the biggest ego and wants to always be right in terms of how he thinks about things. The offense is horrible, Mike McCarthy, no motion, just no creativity, no, everything is just super static and Aaron Rodgers isn't playing quarterback for you right now and you don't have Greg Jennings, Donald Driver and Jordy Nelson out there. You have C.D. Lamp who's an incredible receiver and one of the top receivers, top five receivers in the league, but you have to be creative. You don't keep can't run the ball and this is just, you know, this is disappointing. It's embarrassing for the Cowboys and they might be the worst team in the division. - How about, wow. How about, okay, a lot to unpack there, all great points. So first of all, how humiliating is it when a team, like Ben Johnson toying with them with these trick plays, you know, the pitches and throwbacks to offensive linemen. I mean, is that an extra level of embarrassment for a team like the Cowboys when a team is doing that to you when it's already a blowout in your own building? - 1,000% especially at this level. This is not college, this is in high school. They were trying to embarrass you and Detroit and Dan Campbell, you know, they felt like they got one stolen from them last year in Jerry's world with the reporting call. So they wanted to try to embarrass Dallas and they did. And I think that's super embarrassing for the team and it's just a humbling. That's not even humbling, it's just embarrassing. And now, the question is where does Dallas go? Is there gonna be a lot of finger pointing in that locker room there already was to begin with, you know, do they pack it in now? Do they pack it in and, you know, how do they actually feel about Jerry? - Interesting, especially 'cause one thing I was thinking about with their roster right now, Benny, is, so we just talked about Aiden Hutchinson, that's obviously a costly injury, but the Lions are still one of the better teams in the league without him. Who knows if they can go all the way? But let's say Dallas, you don't want anybody to get hurt, but right now Parsons is out. Like you take a player like Parsons out, let's say CD Lamb misses a couple of weeks in the middle of the season for, you know, a hamstring or something. If they miss a player like that, like one of their top three, to me, this could be a house of cards that completely collapses. Like if you took CD Lamb off this offense for two to three weeks, 'cause it's the NFL season that happens, that's where I think this could go completely in the tank. Yeah, you know, they're not steady and balanced enough to handle that. - They stink anyway, they're offense things. So if CD Lamb misses a couple of weeks, he might want to miss a couple of weeks because right now he's just out there getting cardio and this, I mean, this everything is just super predictable. So he might want to miss a few weeks just with how bad they are playing and the lack of creativity and keep running the same place, triple slant on third down. It means it's ridiculous. - Oh my God. So that's fantastic running, getting cardio out there. So Detroit, you said something about Ben Johnson is interesting to me that I wanted you to break down from the NFL player point of view. You said that he understand, like with his play calling, but you said he understands the body types of all of his players on his offense. Why is that important and what, where did you see that come up in this game? - Yeah, I think when you're just, well, number one, the reason why it's important is because you want all your players to operate from a place of strength. So what did they do really well? And you see this with the intermediate rounds with St. Brown and the creative ways that they're able to get him open. St. Brown is somebody who is always going in motion. He's not really getting press. He's off the ball and he's able to be creative in his routes. You see Tim Patrick, who is a new acquisition that they made right after training camp, right after he got cut in Denver. He comes there, he's there on practice squad for a couple of weeks, gets activated to the active roster and you saw last week a couple of deep in routes that Tim caught. And that's something that he did well in Denver. And then you saw a deep ball yesterday where he caught an incredible pass from Jared Groff down on the sideline. Tim ran a great go route. And those are the types of plays that Tim has been making throughout his entire career. So they actually are looking at, "Hey, what has this guy done really well?" Got it, with him in that position to be successful. Then you have the trickery, you know, James and William's going to at least get one to two handoffs per game because of the dynamic speed that he has. And then you're just seeing the look, you see in Sam Laporta, you know, he's a recipient of some of the trick plays and the triple reverse that they did, Flea Flaker, you know, Sam Laporta's getting that. But you know, you just see the creativity, even the offensive lineman who were catching the passes. They're working on those things constantly every single week. So I think Ben Johnson is doing an incredible job. He will be very highly touted, or not highly touted, but I would say, you know, very highly sought after in terms of off season and being a head coach and being a candidate for being a head coach. If I am the Ford family, if I'm Dan Campbell, if I am that GM, I'm going to do everything in my power to keep him here because the continuity and the camaraderie that this offense has is incredible. And it's something that's, you can't just replace that. You can't just put somebody else in there. It's not like, you know, Kyle Shanahan's the head coach, but he's also calling the plays. Ben Johnson is dialing things up. And he is focused on this offense and making this offense one of the best in the league. And you heard Tom Brady say it the, I think yesterday, he would love to play in this type of offense. All of these weapons and all of these opportunities and very unique things in the way plays are being dialed up, similar to Tom Brady's offenses in New England, where Josh McDaniels, he went to a couple of different spots, head coaches, comes back. But the way they would call trick plays, they'd call double passes, you know, they would call different types of plays to get their best people in position to win and be successful. And you're seeing that and how Ben Johnson's doing that. Jared Goff on the phone to Tom Brady, like, stay away, man. This is my cool aid, you know, you have. - At your job, do you ever have to deal with a nose roller? How about a snub bully? Well, if you're installing a new conveyor belt system, dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language. Luckily, you've got a team ready to help. Granger's technical product specialists are fluent in maintenance, repair, and operations. So whenever you want to talk shop, just reach out. Call clickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. - It took a lifetime to find the person you want to marry. Finding the perfect engagement ring is a lot easier. At bluenile.com, you can find or design the ring you've always dreamed of with help from bluenile's jewelry experts who are on hand 24/7 to answer questions and the ease and convenience of shopping online. For a limited time, get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more with code POD at bluenile.com. That's $50 off with code POD at bluenile.com. - Your chance, you know, that in me is the tandem. You're not coming over to Detroit and unretiring here. No, you make an interesting point about that is, yeah, Ben Johnson, head coach and candidate. Interesting wrinkle with kind of how he handled the Washington job last year, what will that mean? But also, to your point, you know, Andy Reid Patrick Mahomes is obviously the standard right now. But look at golf's last two weeks with the knowing completions two weeks ago and then the stat line this week. Dan Campbell finally gives them the game ball. He forgot to last week. But to your point, I mean, that synergy is, you know, yes, the team is winning, but the synergy of the OC and the quarterback and the result it has on the team and even just the leadership of the team, you know, you see around the league, the way a quarterback plays, it filters down throughout an NFL team. If you're really paying attention. And so that's an excellent point about how valuable he is to them, I think. Staying on the topic of frauds for a second, you said something there that made me, you know, made me open my eyes wide. You said the Dallas Cowboys might be the worst team in the division in the NFC East. So I put it to you this way, who is a bigger fraud right now? The Cowboys after this joke of a performance or the Eagles who squeak by a terrible Browns team, led by Deshawn Watson at home and their head coach Nick Siriani is yelling at fans in their home stadium after the game and really looking like even coming off a bi-week Benny that he doesn't have a lot of poise for this situation. Which one of these teams is a bigger fraud? Cowboys or Eagles? Cowboys are definitely the biggest frauds. You know people think that and their owner and GM thinks that they have a Super Bowl winning team. So they're definitely the biggest frauds. Siriani though, like get ahold of yourself, like be an adult. Like what are you doing? You're the head coach of an NFL franchise. You just won a game and that the first thing you want to do is go over and talk to the fans. Like first of all, the Philly fans will let you have it. You're not ready for that battle. And then I mean, number two, like grow up. You're one of the faces of this franchise. What are you doing? Like act like you've been there before. You got the win, you got out of there. But, you know, it's just, that's embarrassing to me if I was a part of the Philly franchise. Like my coach doesn't have any emotional intelligence. Like he's lax emotional intelligence by far. - Yeah, no, absolutely. And my editor at the Daily News Kyle Wagner made an interesting point contextualizing it for the Eagles franchise and maybe how Jeffrey Lori would look at it, that Andy Reed forever was here. And those Eagles teams were excellent year in and year out for a long time. And what did he always do Benny? Whenever they came out of a bi-week, you gave him two weeks. They would slaughter teams. - Yeah. - He still does it with the Chiefs, right? And if you think about it, like in that building, the institutional knowledge of Jeffrey Lori and the Eagles, they have to be, if they're looking at this from the standpoint of their experience with different coaches, what a dichotomy and a contrast it is that coming off of a week away, probably some time with the family and extra time to prepare, you're unhinged and you nearly lose to one of the worst teams and quarterbacks in football, rather than being the team that looked like fresh, ready to go, hit, you know, second wind. You know, that's kind of an interesting one to think about too, as far as what the Eagles franchise has been, what they know they want to be and what they see they are now. You know, it also speaks to me, Benny. I don't know if players think of it this way, but like the Jets could have easily fired Robert Salah in the off season. They bring him into the season and they fire him, you know, five weeks in. The Eagles spent a full week deliberating, essentially, of whether Nick Sirihan was still gonna be that coach. And then they're like, what? Nothing to see here, nothing happened. No, we didn't do that. But obviously, all the issues that you were facing with Sirihani last year, they are continuing. Like this looks like the same team as last year. Why don't these teams pull the plug when they see it? Like, you know, do players sit in the locker room and say like this is all the same stuff? Like why did we run this back? - You know, I think from a player's perspective, you don't want a coach to get fired because part of that is on you. So as a player, you don't want to see your coach get fired and then things, it's like a substitute teacher coming in for the rest of the year. You don't necessarily know what to expect. You had all these expectations. And I think the Eagles right now, I thought I think their record's foreign too. So you don't just want to throw things out. But, you know, maybe Sirihani's going through a midlife crisis. I saw the haircut before the game and I was like, okay, like this guy is trying to figure out who he is. It's like, you know, cutting the hair, you know, that week away with the family, you know, he might have had too much time on his hands. Like, I'm just going to cut my hair. Like I need a fresh start. He's trying to get his mind wrapped around what's next or am I going to be here? So he's just as nervous as the players are. - Yeah, no, well said. And it has to filter down. I remember, I will always remember this, but it definitely has been consistent throughout my time covering pro sports. Like when Ben McAdoo came back that second year and he came back instead of with his normal floppy, you know, Midwestern PA haircut, he had it cut down, faded, gelled back with the sunglasses. You can't do the, I got to change my appearance and image to fix this thing. And usually it's a sign of the fact that the person is grasping for answers. - Yeah. - From what I've seen, you know, from McAdoo, you know, even right now, I think Dable's trying it, you know, is that going to work in New York? But I agree, Sirioni, I mean, Joe Barrow even, you know, when I started-- - I had it in my career, you know, I think I had it, you know, maybe my third or fourth year in Denver just wasn't playing well, you know, things were up and down. I had the long faux hawk and I was like, I got to go back to the clean cut. I got to change this. It didn't help at all because, you know, the answers are right there in front of you. You need to just be honest with yourself. Question is, is Nick Sirionna being honest with himself? Did the vibes improve with the, with going back to the clean cut for you? - No, I grew back up. (laughing) It's not a hair problem. It's the way you're performing a problem. Step up and make plays and that's what I had to do. (laughing) - Well, step or speaking of trying to step up and make plays, the giants are scrambling for answers. We're staying in the NFC East here. Benny, a lot of teams lost on Sunday, okay? And a lot of teams were a mess while losing. The giants issue though, and this was, you know, when I was talking to Daniel after the game, talking to Deble, talking to some of these players. The difference with the giants is, you know, they're not scoring 17, 16, 20, 23, 25 points in a loss. Like even, even the Patriots and the Saints did with Drake, Mane, Spencer, Rattler, rookie quarterbacks. They're scoring seven points against the Bengals team that was averaging allowing 29 a game on defense, coming in, and frankly, Benny, they didn't just look frustrated in the Giants locker room. They looked like they were out of answers. Like they don't know where to look for the answers. What did you see in that dud of a performance? And what does it tell you about where the Giants are? - Well, from the Sunday night performance, number one, I think the Giants defense played extremely well. I think Dexter Lawrence is a monster, one of the best defensive players in the league, and then Brian Burns, it's not a really, I got a really good chance to see him, and he made an extreme amount of plays. And I mean, just making plays in the run game, making plays, getting after the quarterback. So I saw the defense play really well. I mean, for the most part, they kept that Bengals offense, which is very explosive in check, you know, the Bengals scored 17 points, the Joe Voral run. You know, that's tough, but, you know, other than that, you know, touched on at the end where, you know, they're in four minute, and, you know, Giants are really going for it. They really held that Bengals explosive offense to 10 points, so the Giants defense played really well. You know, from Daniel's perspective, in the offensive's perspective, you know, where is the creativity from Deball? Where is the creativity? I saw Daniel use his legs a little bit. Him and Slades report continues to just be super impressive. I mean, they just make plays, but, you know, the fourth and three call, you know, I wanna see something better than just the drag route to slay. Like, where is the creativity? Can we get a hitch on the opposite side? Jalen Heitz got to come up and make some plays though. With the incredible speed that he has, and the opportunities that he was begging for, well, he had some opportunities to go out there and make some plays, and he didn't make those plays. Running game was decent, offensive line was decent. So they got to find a way to score some points, but you missed two field goals, that's tough. You know, you had a chance to really tie up the game and make it and see where it goes from there, and then you missed a couple of field goals. So I won't just, you know, blame it on the offense, you know, all the way, but definitely got to score more than seven points, and you've got to score points in the first half. I mean, what are we doing? This is, where is the creativity? How are we gonna get people involved? And everything just seems very vanilla. You know, there's, where's the creativity? - Yeah, yeah, turn over in the red zone for Daniel there, but also a bad play call. It was a throwback to his left, to Theo Johnson, the rookie tight end, who's not a down-field guy. You know, I ill-advised, Abel actually said he wanted the play call back, which is interesting. I also thought, I didn't understand this, Benny. They went into Seattle, and Daniel even said, I asked him after the Seahawks game, where he had that impressive performance, they went 29-20. And I said, Daniel, do you get more into a game when you run? And he said, yes, like he said, that running, and you know, you don't want to take hits, but he doesn't, he likes the contact, you know? He likes getting into the flow, getting his legs moving, and it puts the defense off balance. They didn't get him running until the second quarter. I thought that was too late. I thought, you know, I thought it was, it was all dropback pass, and vanilla runs, and it didn't serve them well. You're right, I mean, he and Slaton are, you know, as connected, and the chemistry is there, but without neighbors on the field, you know, there's not much to watch as far as, you know, explosive over-the-top big plays. I am encouraged by the fact that Tyrone Tracy Jr., the rookie running back, has two, back-to-back kind of productive games here. So you think about, you have neighbors, you have Tracy, these are both rookie players. Hopefully, you're setting a little bit of a foundation. But, you know, the feeling I got coming out of there, talking to them was they really thought they found something in Seattle, and they didn't take Cincinnati for granted, but they definitely knew, okay, the way to make progress here is to do it again, and we have the chance to do that. It's an advantageous opportunity and environment and opponent to do that. And I think they were a little bit, oh, stuns the word, but I think they were a little bit, here we go again-ish. Yeah, you know, kind of pointing. I mean, to see Cincinnati give up 41 points the week before to Baltimore, who has a dynamic running quarterback. Why would you not take some of the plays? I'm not saying Daniel Jones is Lamar Jackson, but DJ can run, and we've seen that. And why would you not take some of those plays and some of those QB runs and just keep the drives alive? Keep the sticks moving. I think that's what one of, you know, some of these top quarterbacks are doing is that, hey, if I'm dropping back or I don't like what I see, I'm gonna run, I'll get the first down, and then now we have a new set of downs. And that's the way I think about some of the quarterback runs, and I think that's what Dayball did with Josh Allen and Buffalo, and that's what he did early on with DJ in New York. Just keep the drive alive. Call a quarterback run, get six yards, and then you have your whole playbook to at your disposal. So, you know, I want to see Dayball bring back the creativity and, you know, and work with the whole entire roster. Yeah, but Daniel, as Sequann once called him, is Vanellavic, that was- (laughs) Yeah, that's Vanellavic. So, let's be fair, maybe he's not Lamar, but he is Vanellavic. Remember everybody, just real quick, we're sponsored here by my bookie. My bookie is celebrating its 10th year anniversary. It's rolling out the red carpet for better. It's used the promo code PATSPICKS on the link in all of my social media profiles, and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more, up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. I am nine and three against the spread this week, with the Jets and bills to go on Monday night. You have to say it when you are bending, 'cause usually it doesn't go that way, right? (laughs) We also hit on the Tyrone Tracy receiving yards ladder went over his line, and then over 26, over 36, 50-some yards receiving, I believe. So, hopefully you played that, made some money there. My bookie bet anything, anytime, anywhere. Also, my bookie plus the rewards program, if you're already a member. Also brought to you by BoomChaga Mushroom Super Drink, a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. Chaga has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta-gluten and antioxidants. I put it in my coffee every morning and feel a post-workout-like energy boost. Go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order. And if you use the discount code, TalkingBall25 or access it through the QR code on your screen, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. Start filling the difference today at boomchaga.com. Also, estate 98 coffee, all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on-the-go coffee drinkers. estate98.com/talkingball, that's where you go to get a special buy one, get one free deal. All right, Benny, off of the frauds and back onto the lods, the Green Bay Packers, 34, 14 over the Arizona Cardinals. Jordan Love, 258, four touchdowns, one interception and completes a pass to 10 different receivers. Benny, did the Packers for you do what they did for me and kind of reaffirm themselves as a team to be reckoned with deep in the January this year? I still can't get my, I can't put my finger on the Green Bay Packers, but yes, they showed that what they're stealing is in terms of Jordan Love, the throws that he can make, Matt LaFloor, just dial and plays up. And then all the different receivers that they have, their young receiver core is incredible. I mean, Jayden Reed, Shoutout, Michigan State, Dodson and then Watson and then you have the tight end and then you have Josh Jacobs. I mean, they just have an incredibly well balanced offensive scheme. And I mean, when you think about all of these offenses in the NFC, it was an NFC North. When you think about all the offenses in the NFC North, they are all super balanced and they all have incredible skill players. You know, Green Bay, you know, I think, you know, if they get a rhythm, they're a hard team to deal with. I'd be curious to see how they deal with adversity early on in games. I think they would have a hard time coming back in games, but you know, they have obvious passing situations where the run is taken away on offense, exactly. But if they have a situation where they hit first or they're striking first and score for score, it's going to be hard to beat them because Jordan Love and Matt LaFloor, they can go anywhere with the ball. Everybody can catch a ball. Everybody's a catch a run. And they're just super, super dynamic. - Why do you think they do such a good job with drafting and identifying talent at receiver, Benny? Like, do you see any consistent elements and skill sets in the Packers receivers over the years, just as an organization, you know, that like maybe talents they prioritize or like a body type that they go after? But 'cause they really do seem to, without investing first round picks consistently in the position, they really do seem to hit on these guys. - I would say from my vantage point, they draft route runners. And I know that's, you know, kind of weird to say 'cause all receivers should be route runners, but when I think about the level of detail and the precision of these guys, especially the three that they have right now that are getting a tremendous amount of time, these are great route runners. And they're all hands-catchers, these kids can make plays. They can make plays downfield. When you think about Devonta Adams, he, you know, he was a playmaker downfield in these three dots and read Watts and they can make plays downfield and just incredible intermediary route runners, short route runners, long route runners. So I would say Green Bay just does a really good job. And then they have, they find receivers that can compliment one another. Think about a Randall Cop complimenting a Jordy Nelson or a Donald Driver or a Greg Jennings. You think about Devonta and Randall complimenting one another along with a Jordy Nelson. And then, you know, these three, they can compliment one another. - Right, Reed skill set different from Watts and Dobbs. These guys, yeah, no for sure. Reed's a special player, man. He's doing really well. I mean, he's taking the lead by storm. Oh, he's got seven touchdowns. I don't know how many he has. - Wow. - He's kind of, like Wanda Robinson is finally making plays for the Giants. He's been healthy this season. Daniel Jones used him as a security blanket, but all respect to Wandao and he does have some quickness and breaks tackles. But Reed is kind of what I think the Giants wanted Robinson to be, if that makes sense, you know? - Yeah. Like he's, yeah, he looks like a gadget player at times, but he's not just that. - Yeah, he's a big, he can go up and get the jump ball. He can return the puns. He can run the ball. So, you know, Jay and Reed is a jack of all trades. - Yeah, for sure. Wanted to go into, we haven't really done like a power rankings thing yet, but I feel like we're deep enough into the season. And this can allow us to go in a bunch of different directions. But at the top of the league right now, we have the Chiefs at five and oh, the Minnesota Vikings at five and oh, my Houston Texans improved the five and one. Detroit four and one, and then your Baltimore Ravens with four wins in a row now after beating the Washington commanders in a pretty good game there between two of the better offenses in the NFL. It's wondering of that group I gave you, Kansas City, Baltimore, Houston, Minnesota, Detroit. Who, right at this moment, as week six has come into a close, stands out to you at the top of the power rankings for you. And then who of those are you kind of, you know, kind of moving your eyebrow out a little bit, saying like I still, I still need to see more here. - Yeah, I'd say Baltimore would be at number one. I would put Minnesota at number one. - This is a mini meditation guided by Bombas. Repeat after me. I'm comfy, comfy. I'm cozy, cozy. I have zero blisters on my toes, blisters. And that's 'cause I wear Bombas, the softest sucks underwear and t-shirts that give back. One purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombas.com/listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/listen and use code listen at checkout. - If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally. But don't sweat it, Granger has you covered. - Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. - For two, Kansas City at three, Lions at four, Houston at five. - You're trolling me, you're trolling me. - Yeah, I'll put Houston at five. But my eye is still up and a little worried about Kansas City, even though they have Patrick Mahomes and it's hard to go against them, the receivers that they've lost and the inconsistency in Patrick Mahomes' play raises some eyebrows and the turning over of the ball. Now they know how to win close games, so they know how to win. But where is the 400-300-yard games from Patrick Mahomes, the three touchdown games, the three touchdown, no interception games, we need to see that type of play out of Patrick Mahomes in terms of him going into year seven or year eight or whatever it may be for him. Where is that type of play for him? It was good to see Travis Kelsey get going the other week, but where is that? Their defense is still incredible. So that's where it would be for me. Houston I think is doing an incredible job and CJ Shroud continues to impress me in terms of his pockets, presence the way he throws a ball, delivery to Miguel Ryan's and what they're doing, complimentary football, but they're just not battle tested enough to where I would believe in them in a single elimination format. Like if they, interesting, if they're playing a Buffalo, if they're playing a Baltimore or a Kansas City, I'm just gonna have to go with those other teams because those other teams are a little bit more battle tested in terms of playoff experience. So, but Joe mixing, doing really well. And for them to go out there to get that win on the road, no Nico Collins and CJ Shroud still smiling and dialing. It was, it was, it's good to see. - No doubt, no doubt. Yeah, you mentioned Mahomes and Reed. And remember a couple of years ago when the league just started playing like cloud and too deep on Mahomes and forcing them to kind of go the long way? I still look at, you know, I still think that's something he struggles with. And I still, I think they're a handful of explosive quarterbacks that struggle with that. Like I was watching Burrow live last night with the Cincinnati Bengals and Zach Taylor way too cute as a played caller. I mean, way too cute, but also Burrow refused to throw underneath on a lot of these plays, Benny. And now, you know, your eyes down the field, that's great. I mean, obviously that's a lot of what these quarterbacks that everyone gets frustrated with in these different markets. That's what they're not doing, is keeping their eyes down the field, right? It's a hard position. But what I saw there is it's just, it's really interesting. I guess it's human nature for these guys who are that explosive of players and passers, but it was clearly extremely difficult for Burrow last night against the Giants to just dump it off for four yards, let the running back or the tight end get three more for seven because he wanted to make that 25, 30, 35 yard pass. I mean, you know, if you, if you went into one of these meeting rooms with these quarterbacks and you said, here's how they're playing us. Here's how we win and beat it. I would think they would just adjust. I'm not exactly sure why it's so difficult for them too though. Trust and trust in the receivers, you know, Jamar Chase and T. Higgins are the guys who are running, you know, the 25, 30 yard routes down the field. So there's more trust and let me hold on to the ball. Let me see if this comes open. And I would say when it comes to Patrick, there are a lot of people open down field. They're just not a Tyree kill anymore. And that's totally different. It's not Mark has about a scanty. So does he really trust those guys? But yeah, there's a lot of people open down field, but, you know, I played with some, some really good quarterbacks and some Hall of Fame quarterbacks. If they don't trust you, it doesn't matter if it's open. They're not throwing you the ball because they don't trust that you're going to make the play. So I think it's a trust element on Borough and my homes in terms of making those throws or the right throws. And, you know, these guys want to go for it. These guys are young and they don't want to just check the ball down. But I think, you know, they'll learn that over time and it really just depends on the offense and who the coordinator is. But, you know, Joe Burrow, he lost Brian Callahan and people can think that's easy and, you know, but Brian Callahan being with Joe Burrow for the last or his whole career so far and not not being there, you see a different type of play. - But, Betty, can you earn trust in practice or does it have to come in a game? So like if you're the Pro Bowl quarterback and are you in practice, starts in practice, but then yeah, they definitely want to see it in a game. - So at a certain point, they got to give you a chance, but that almost sounds like there's a lot of pressure on, let's say you're the second year wide receiver and on the Pro Bowl quarterback, when I eventually give you that one chance in the game, it's like that first one, you kind of have to make it. - I want that number, yeah, if you don't catch it, that first one, it's going to be tough. And I think that's what you're seeing with, you know, at least Patrick, you know, you're seeing some tough moments in situations where, hey, you know, a sky more has, you know, had plenty of chances. It's like, I'm not going to keep throwing this ball. Like, I'm not doing it, I don't care if you're open. So, have tough situations like that, where, you know, it is built off a trust. And, you know, these tips and overthrows, people catch these passes or these, you know, they drop these passes and then it goes, it gets intercepted then that looks bad on Patrick, which has happened, you know, quite a few times this year and even last year. - Hmm, interesting. By the way, just a random note, T. Higgins' hands, he catches everything with his hands. - Yeah, he's got his hands. - Yeah, you've got me looking at that now a lot, you know, guy's body catches in versus hands. And Higgins was, I mean, it was like he was picking apples last night, I mean, he's a monster. - It was really something else. One other thing I had for you was wondering what you thought Washington looked like against Baltimore. That was kind of a really good test for an up and coming hot team. And then anything else that stood out to you, league wide, if we didn't cover it yet. - Yeah, good test for Washington, but then, you know, Baltimore shows by their Baltimore and they played really well and Washington had to go on the road and try to make some plays, but I'm still extremely impressed with Jaden Danes. He's didn't turn the ball over and completed some passes and it was a close game. So, but, you know, it's hard to go out there and beat Lamar, I think, I don't know what Lamar's record is against Ricky Quarterback. I don't even think he's lost a game. He gets a rookie quarterback. - Sounds right. - Oh, they played extremely well in the Ravens, you know, Todd Monkin is doing really well in terms of the play calling. And we got to give him his credit the first couple of weeks. It was super predictable. And now he's definitely doing a lot better in terms of the play calling. And then Dave Flowers making incredible plays and then Lamar doing what Lamar does, you know, still MVP candidate. So, but I was very impressed, still continue to be impressed with Jaden Danes. And then, league wide, Caleb Williams, very impressive as he continues to get better and play better week after week, finding different ways. But I think they are finding a rhythm in terms of their play calling and everything looking the same and helping Caleb make these reads. And he's not trying to play that Superman ball anymore. It's like, yeah, be super creative, get in and out of the pocket and avoid the rush. But you don't have to throw at 80 yards downfield. Just throw it to the tight end and let him do the rest or the running back and let him do the rest. Like you don't have to throw at 60 yards downfield. So, you're starting to see these young Ricky quarterbacks make some plays and they're learning the game. Bo Nick struggled yesterday. I went to the game and it was ugly. It was ugly. - Chargers are tough with Harbaugh, huh? - Oh yeah, they're tough. They know how to play. They did a lot on third down. Patrick Sertan went down and he showed that he's the best player by far on the Denver team because, you know, when you're starting corner back goes down, now the entire field opens up for the other team's offense and Jim Harbaugh attacked all of our weaknesses. Interesting, interesting. Bo looks like it's hard for him or-- - Yeah, and the receiver's gotta step up and make some plays and make it easier for Bo in terms of, you know, making some completions. But now, you know, he definitely had a, he definitely took a step back in terms of, you know, his progression that he had been making. But, you know, he's still able to keep some plays alive with his legs, but there's still a lot that he has to learn and, you know, things that he has to trust as well. - There was an interesting theme this week with Ratler getting on the field in New Orleans, Drake May getting on the field. All these rookies are now playing, except Michael Pennix Jr. He's the guy I keep telling people sooner or later. I don't know how it happens. Top 10 pick, quarterback pick. He's gonna get on the field, but obviously-- - Not in 2024. - Right, now therefore in two, they're rolling a little bit. So I guess not at the moment. Benny, we didn't have any breaking news this week during the podcast. - No, no, no. - It's solid getting fired last week. - Waiting for Mark McCarthy to get fired during our podcast. - I thought it was gonna be Doug Peterson and Nick Siriani. But hey, we didn't need breaking news to spice it up here in week six. Great talk about everything that happened around the NFL. As you said, some things feel predictable, some things couldn't feel more unpredictable, but we're here to break it all down every week. Benny, thanks so much for being here. - Absolutely, Pat, appreciate you, man. - That was first down with Benny Fowler here on Talking Ball with Pat Leonard, week six edition. Thanks so much for being here. Remember to rate, review, and subscribe on the Believe Network, wherever you get your podcast, Apple, Spotify, and on the PL on NFL YouTube channel. We are brought to you here by my bookie celebrating its 10th year anniversary. Use the promo code PATSPIX at the link in all of my social media profiles, and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more. Up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. We made you money this week. If you used PATSPIX, so stay with us. Look for all the reels and the posts throughout every NFL week to make some money and bet on these games, props, and everything else I have in store for you. If you're already on my bookie, go to my bookie plus as the rewards program, the loyalty rewards program, sign up, you'll get exclusive giveaways, promotions, cashback in your account, mybookie.ag, bet anything, anytime, anywhere. Also brought to you by Boom Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink, a natural extract, loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with Boom. Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta-gluten and antioxidants. Go to BoomChaga.com today to place your first order. And if you use the discount code, TalkingVault25, or access it through the QR code on your screen, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. Start feeling the difference today at BoomChaga.com and brought to you by a state 98 coffee and all natural specialty coffee with no sugar, convenient for on-the-go coffee drinkers. It takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious state 98 ice coffee and only a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte from this all-natural concentrate. Go to estate98.com/talkingball to get a special buy one, get one free deal now. - Hi, we're all modern. We believe designing your space should be easy and simple. At All Modern, we have the best of modern furniture and decor all in one place. With styles from Scandi and mid-century to minimalist and maximalist, every design is hand-vetted for quality by our team of experts. And did we mention fast plus free shipping? 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Voidware prohibited by law must be 21 years or older terms and conditions apply. Hey parents, Greenlight is here to take one big thing off your to-do list, teaching your kids about money. With a Greenlight debit card and money app of their own, kids and teens learn to earn, save and invest. You can send money instantly, set flexible controls and get real-time notifications of your kids' money activity, set up chores and put allowance on autopilot to reward them for their hard work. Then learn about the world of money together. Get one month free when you sign up at Greenlight.com/podcast. Bingo. All right, Phil, we're recording now, so it's live. Go ahead, pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son, man. I mean, come on, man. Just go. This isn't CBS. All right, be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims Complete Podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks the (beep) out of his son, this would be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Dido. Father's son, Dynamic Duo, talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And hey, it's an extension of what we did, right? Growing up, I was able to watch my father play football, then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And hey, sometimes we're full of it and sometimes we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do, you're a little spotty, but you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this and it's been awesome. Sims Complete, check us out. Wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it.