Amala Ekpunobi
Fit vs Fat Debate: Are These Women DELUSIONAL?
I’ve been ready for a break from politics and Jubilee has DELIVERED in the form of this intense debate between fit women against fat women on body positivity, whether being fat is a choice, and more. Let’s watch!
Original video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4gEBRSKi2E
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- Broadcast on:
- 16 Oct 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
(upbeat music) - Hey everybody, happy Wednesday. Welcome to the show today. We're appearing out of the political hellscape and into the cultural one. We're gonna be watching a Jubilee video, a middle ground where you bring together two people on opposing sides of an issue and they duke it out on different topics. This one is actually Fit Women versus Fat Women. You guys sat with us for Fit Men versus Fat Men. We had Myron Gaines of the Fresh and Fit podcast, sort of laying it out for everybody, telling them that they should put fat people in concentration camps. So it definitely got heated and intense. We'll see if the women counterparts are as intense as Myron Gaines was in his episode. Before we get into that though, of course, we have Taylor in Nashville. (audience cheering) - Yeah, this is one of those topics that's just begging for the opinion of a man, straight white male coming in handy here, but I'll try to be a little softer than Myron Gaines. - Yeah, I have a feeling with women talking about this topic and it's just going to be a softer episode that tends to be the case here. So without further ado, let's get straight into it and you guys give your thoughts in the comments down below. - Have you seen me with the Ramio Bs? - I wanna say that you're obese, but it's like medically, you know? - So you're medically obese though? - Yes. - I've been medical obese since I was 12 and I was not a people. (upbeat music) You've been medically obese since you were 12 and you were not obese. Now I already said this, I already sort of gave some foreshadowing that like women tend to like tip toe around these things and be really nice in the way they conversed with one another because we're women, you know? We're intuitive, we wanna be nice, we're nurturing or whatever. I don't know that I'm gonna have that disposition today. I'm gonna go ahead and warn you. I might balance this out a little bit by telling the truth. (upbeat music) Okay, damn. (upbeat music) - Welcome back to Middle Ground. I'm John, I host Radocompathy Podcast and I'll be moderating today's discussion between fit women and fat women. And a friendly reminder, if you are writing a hate comment, you are part of the problem. - Whoa, no hate, no haters. - Your physique is in your control. Will the agreeers please step forward? - I agree, I'm stepping forward for that one. Of course, like within every body type, you have certain places you can go to in certain places you can't. I can't pull up a picture of Jennifer Lopez and say, this is the physique I want and you know, automatically gain that physique or even with a lot of time and effort put into that, gain that exact physique. We all have our limitations and where body can go to. But on the extreme side of people disagreeing with this, I think people will say, well my fatness is just my fatness. That's the way my physique was meant to be. There's nothing I can do to sort of limit that or gain control or build muscle and lose fat. And of course, we know that that's not the case. There's a lot of things that are within your control. But we just, we do have some people that don't want to necessarily put in the work. Sorry. (laughs) - Yeah, I'll just chime in. Absent any debilitating physical issues, generally speaking, of course it's in your control. It looks like 96% of the audience is agreeing with us in the poll so far, so there you go. - Let's see what the women have to say about it. - She has a question. - I have a question. When you mean physique, can you specify like what exactly are you trying to? - I think physique is like the shape and size of your body. Why were you hesitating? - Because, you know, there's a lot of different illnesses around, so I have family members that have like steroids and they can't wait, gang weight or they can't lose weight. But I think that they can manage to stay at a place that's gonna be healthy for them. To me personally, I do feel like I can be at a better place. I'm working on it and that's my goal. - So. - Yeah, I agree with you 100%. I think that definitely people have ailments, there's different diseases and all that. But I think at the end of the day, what you can do the best physical peak for your personal body is in your hands. You may not look like someone you want to look like in your ideal situation, but you can optimize your body to be the highest performance that you think that you can get to. - But I first started working on I lost 60 pounds and that included just counting calories. I've had to work out as hard. I did the treadmill, I went at an incline and I just walked the whole time watching the movie and just walked, I just made healthier choices and I've been mindful about what I put inside my body. - Like you put in that effort, right? You made those conscious decisions to walk on the treadmill, count your calories, you were super exact with everything and that's how both of you guys were able to lose so much weight, right? So your physique is 100% in your control. It's just that nobody wants to put the effort in. - Just so we can invite. - Okay, I like that she's just being real about it. That's very true. I think a lot of people will say, oh well this is just the body that I've born with or we have different body types and of course we have different body types, but there is so much you can do with your own body as far as putting on weights, taking off weight, all of these different things. It's not to say that you should be constantly consuming yourself with these things and constantly worrying about it, but to just sort of sign it off and say it's impossible for me to make any changes, I think it's more of just a crutch that people lean on to make themselves feel better about the position that they're in rather than a real reflection of the reality that they're living in. - That disagrees, that's a great point to bring in or disagree. Whoever wants to pick up where we just left off. - So well of course there are aspects that I think you can control about your physique. I think there are more things that are out of your control. Like it is so much more expensive to eat healthy than it is to eat like crap. If I go to the grocery store and I just want to buy a bunch of frozen meals, that's gonna be so much cheaper than me going and buying fresh produce and fresh fruit and everything. - I disagree. - I disagree. - I disagree too. - Why do you disagree? - The prepackaged foods, the frozen ones, way more expensive. I've been on a budget, you know, eternally, I always, always, always save money by just going to the grocery store and buying, buying ingredients. - I agree with you on that, but I can go get a frozen meal sometimes for $1.52, where if I want to cook a whole meal, like depending on what all the ingredients I'm getting, that could be $10, so you'll get more. - Yes, but if you go to, well back in the day, McDonald's is no longer like a dollar. I will take like a lean cuisine or something. You go to a store, that's a couple bucks or whatever, okay, you can buy that. But if you go to the store and you buy rice, beans, you stock up on veggies, it could be frozen produce, it could be fresh produce, you buy what's in season, that's gonna have you getting multiple meals for a few dollars each, once it actually is, you know, is made, it's prepped, it's counted out. I think she's talking in a more short-term sense. Not only that, I think something we don't talk about is that those like very cheap meals that you can buy in the freezer section or if you're going to McDonald's or Burger King or this, that and the third, they're not satiating. So you're getting food for a couple dollars but you're not actually making your body feel full, which means you're going to need more food as your day progresses and it will also put you on a trend towards unhealthier options for food, which of course is going to add up in price. So I think a lot of people can think it's a cheaper option but it's not necessarily that. It's quicker because it's a couple dollars to get something that you can throw in the microwave or you get out of a fast food joint and you know, it just makes your day. It's a little bit more convenient, I think, is the answer rather than having to budget out the food that you're buying, make sure you're getting fresh food, healthy food, knowing how to put that all together in a consistent meal, cooking those meals every single day. It can be more work than I think a lot of people are willing to do and on the other end of that, they just convince themselves that it's cheaper to buy in healthier food. It's the same thing with the physique being in your control. The hard thing is not the fun thing to do. So you convince yourself of a different reality in order to make it acceptable, the choices that you're making, but deep down, we know it's not the most expensive thing in the world to eat healthy. Of course, in today's economy, nothing's fun, like going to the grocery store is not a fun thing for anybody but it consists of extra effort, I think, to make healthier choices and they can be cheaper if you try. - Still, you have to think from people who have like no money and they're thinking like, oh, I can give-- - I've had no money. I've had $12 for a week's amount of food. - I hear both. I think that you definitely, in the short term mindset, it is cheaper. You go to a fast food restaurant, they have a good dollar in me. I think they've increased the dollar in me now. So, which is crazy. - It's like a good dollar in you. - So if that's valid, I think, but I think it's killing us in the long term, like it's like that short dopamine effect, the dopamine where you're like, oh, I just need something right now. I think that's the issue. - I also did wanna, sorry, just touch on other than food costs, like there's also privilege when it comes to like having time to cook stuff, like if you work a full time job, if you have kids and stuff, all the time, it's just easier, you don't have the time and energy, like I enjoy cooking, but it's a lot of work sometimes and it's much easier for me to just like go through the drive through and then also privilege when it comes to like your mental health. When you are depressed, when you're struggling to even like get through the day, it can be really hard to have that motivation to eat well, to move your body and stuff. So for then when people are like, oh, well, why aren't you working out? It's like, dude, I can barely even get out of bed. So like, excuse it, excuse it, excuse it, excuse it. And we all make excuses, right? We all have our own vices, our own tendencies towards unhealthy things that may not manifest in the realm of food and we make our excuses. That's why we can recognize when other people are making an excuse. It's not that you don't have the time or that other people have the privilege of time and energy. You're just choosing to use your time and energy in different ways. You're choosing to take the convenient route and she brings up this idea of mental health and depression. There's nothing that's going to make your mental health worse than turning to a fast food diet or a processed food diet when you should be eating healthy foods. So you're just gonna contribute to a cycle that's going to consistently put you in the state of not wanting to get out of bed. So we can talk about the privileges that other people have or how other people spend their time and their energy. Meanwhile, you're just putting yourself in a perpetual cycle of victimhood that's going to lead you down a further path of unhealthiness and a bad lifestyle. So at some point, we kind of have to stop looking at the privilege of others and look at ourselves and say, you know what? With the time that I'm allotted in a day, with the energy that I have, with my full-time job, with my kids, I'm gonna have to get up and do something because I know for day, I'm sure there's people who are working three full-time jobs. They have kids or whatever. They're still managing to wake up and get to the gym and, you know, if they're not getting to the gym, they're walking around their home, they're expending energy while taking care of their kids and somehow putting healthy food on the table for their children. So somebody out there is doing it. We can call that a privilege or we can call it really hard work and consistency. And I recognize it in myself when I, as a single person, with one job, does not meet that standard of consistency and discipline. And I don't go, oh, well, it's because that person with three jobs and four kids has privilege. I'd say it's because they have work ethic. And right now, I don't have that. So we need to stop pointing out and point in just a little bit, just a tad. - Yeah, the excuse-making really does kind of show what is at the root of this and why you find yourself on the side of arguing against the idea that you're in control of your physique. It's your mentality and it's a mentality of victimhood and not agency. And just to recap, she started with, it's too expensive and then she said, "It's too much effort." And then she said, "I don't have the time." And then she said, "It's mental health." And while there may be truth to a lot of those that are unique to your circumstance and that would apply to more people at the end of the day, there are plenty of counter examples that prove that none of those are so debilitating that you can't take the opposite side of this argument, which would be that your physique is actually in your control. So a lot boils down to mentality and where she's finding herself in this debate and in life is evidence of that fact. - So just at some point, I don't know, like you'll remain in the same cycle until you make the realization about yourself. - Please stop with that. - I just wanted to say that I didn't step forward because I have PCOS and I just recently got diagnosed with it. So with PCOS, it's so much more difficult for me to lose the way and control what I want my physique to look like, it's just so much harder. It's not impossible, but it is-- - We can fix it. - It's something that can be-- - And you can fix it. PCOS, we can fix it. - Sorry to cut y'all off, but Briya, just wanted to hear from you. (laughing) - The question, like your body is in your control, I just think it is not 100% in your control. To say it's like black and white, you can change it or you can't, it's just crazy, it's just so nuanced. I really appreciated you bringing up the food access that you have, the knowledge access, your socioeconomic status. I go to the gym, I sit there and I'm like, if only everyone had access and the free time to do this, I'm sure so many other people would love to do that, but people are struggling, they need to pay their rent, they can't just allot that time, they need to prioritize. And I think that's ultimately what is really sad. Everyone would love to take care of themselves. - I disagree, I'm sorry. - She must be like a progressive fitness influencer, that's what I'm hearing so far, we're gonna see if she remains on that like sort of consistent ideological bend this entire episode, but you mean to tell me, like and she's talking about I go to the gym, I wish everybody had the privilege, you don't have to go to the gym to work out, you don't have to go to the gym to expend energy, you don't have to go to the gym to be in a calorie deficit, if anything, when it comes to fitness and weight loss and all these things, your diet is gonna be far more important than the work you're putting in on the other end with exercise. So you mean to tell me like, even with a fully packed day, with children, with the job, with this, that and the third, you don't have like five minutes to do some job with jacks, walk around the house, pick up your kid and do some squats. And I think they did some sort of study somewhere that spoke about how like the average American is not even doing like five minutes of physically strenuous exercise in a day, five minutes. You mean to tell me, you don't have five minutes. And when they see like physically strenuous, we're talking about like walking, like a fast paced walk could put you in a much healthier position and a much healthier body, if you can just do that, that consistently over time. So I'm just never buying it when people say, we don't have the privilege of time. We don't have the privilege of energy. You know, our days are packed. We're worried about this, that and the third. Trust, you know, life can be difficult. We're constantly worried about things, but you don't have five minutes. Not even that. - What you just said reminded me of a stat from Ron de Patrick, who's been on drugs. She's like a doctor. She said, just one to two minutes of vigorous physical activity three times a day can lower the risk of cardiovascular death by 50% and all cause mortality by 40% according to studies that she's, you know, citing right there. So just an incredible stat. Like she's even saying like running up the stairs, you know, for a minute can totally change your risk of death by 40%. Like what a wild stat. Also, I saw some guys saying in the chat, they don't know what PCOS is. Can you explain that real quick? - Polycystic ovarian syndrome. It's a, it's a affliction, a medical affliction of women that has to do with our, you know, reproductive health or a reproductive cycle in a lot of ways. It impacts that, but it can also have you pack on weight. So you retain weight with PCOS. And a lot of women use the excuse of like, oh, because I have PCOS, there's no way of me losing weight. There's nothing I can do about my body. It is harder to lose weight when you have PCOS in many cases, but it is not impossible. So that's something to be talked about as well. Sorry, I disagree. Like there's some of us who are on the fit side that don't have that privilege. I wake up at 4 a.m., have a full-time job. I get it done. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter. I want to be the highest version of myself, the most evolved version, and she has to show up. - But your life allows it. - No, I make my life allow it. - No, exactly. I surround myself with that. - But other people don't have the possibility that they do. - They do, they do. - Not everyone. - Okay. All four of these women who are saying that other people don't have the possibility to make this excuse. This is a, what, a how many hour shoot with Jubilee that is happening over the weekend that they took the time to drive out to this studio in LA. They sit down for a few hours, they talk to Jubilee. I'm advocating that they take two minutes, two minutes out of a day, and just walk. You don't have to do anything else. No jumping jacks, no squats, no weightlifting. Just walk for two minutes a day. People don't have the time for that. It's like, who doesn't? I mean, you're gonna find a few cases of people who are just really hustling, so hard in their day that they have no time for anything else. But even in that hustle, you would be doing exercise. You would be getting around. You would be getting up and down, you know, going into the office building that you're working at, walking around, I don't know what the case may be. Everybody is in a different situation, but who really does not have the time? - And I also think-- - You need to be forgotten for the effort in. - But I also think too, like, let's say, for example, you're a teenager and you're like 500 pounds. The work that you need to do to remedy that is ungod. Like, that's really challenging. That's a hard thing to do. - I agree. - As opposed to like me, I was really skinny and then I decided, oh, I'm gonna go to the gym. I put on my weight. The results are showing. It looks like I'm working super hard. I make these choices like, go girl. - Right. - But that is not the same accessibility that someone can make that change for themselves in different circumstances. - I would never hire this person as a fitness trainer. And I hope she is not taking on clients as a fitness trainer. If you meet a 500 pound teen who is saying, I wanna make a change in my life, don't look at that person and say, well, we gotta get you down, you know, the 360 pounds at least, that's an insurmountable amount of work. You don't put them at the finish line and tell them, here's the mountain of work you have to do to get here. You say, okay, this is what we're dealing with now. You're 500 pounds. Correct me if I'm wrong for any fitness trainers or people who are well versed in physiology who are watching right now. A 500 pound person, which you would be doing with that individual is probably sitting them in a chair, having them move their arms, having them attempt to get out of the chair, the weight that 500 pounds puts on a human body, there would be no strenuous exercise if you were just entering a fitness journey at that point. Because the load that that weight is putting on your bones and your body is too much to even start in investing strenuously into exercise. What I just spoke about, sitting in a chair and moving your arms or attempting to get out of a chair, that would be strenuous enough. And at 500 pounds, you're at really high risk of a cardiovascular event going any farther than that. So I would be telling that person, we're going to start with very baby steps. You know, you even showing up and talking to me and saying you want to do something about this today is a massive win. So each day, each minute, we're just going to chip away at what we're dealing with. We don't have to look at what the end goal is and say that you have a mountain ahead of you. It's just such a strange mindset to be in. (indistinct) - It's hard for both, but it can be done is my point. - Yeah, I wouldn't say that it's hard for me as someone who's overweight trying to lose that weight. In my opinion. - But do you believe that it can be done? - I believe it can be done. I believe it can be done. I think empathy and compassion for the different circumstances that may stop someone from doing that is necessary to see like, oh, get off your ass and like, do all this. - No, what's that you're not saying? But I'm saying some people, commenters might be saying that. - My room is not in this episode. (all laughing) - My room is somewhere. - Oh my God. - There is a spectrum for your body. Our height is in under our control, our fat distribution, our bone density, our muscle density, our metabolism. These are all things that make up who we are. But in that spectrum of health, absolutely, we can change who we are with what we got. Right? - And the real stuff right there. (all laughing) - Sure. - Body positivity can promote unhealthy habits. Will the agreeers please step forward? - Of course. Of course it can. Of course there's different iterations of body positivity, but you have like some body positivity people who are just shoveling food in their face. We have cosmopolitan saying that there's health at any size, which is just absolutely not true. So within body positivity, there's this idea that you should learn to accept yourself. And even I can go back and forth on that, which I'm sure we'll get into it as we're talking about these things. But there's an idea of like ownership of the body that you have and saying this is where I'm at at the moment and I may want to be somewhere else, but this is where I am. And that can be part of the body positivity movement. And sure, that's fine. But to say here is where I am, my BMI is this or I'm like 200 pounds overweight and this is healthy or I'm going to convince myself in the world that this is healthy is a whole different beast, which can obviously promote unhealthy habits. - I think blind body positivity can be harmful. If it's just like always like don't ever consider any possibility that you could change something or improve your quality of life. Just blindly accept yourself. I think that's where it can get kind of toxic. - I don't look like how I looked when I was 20. So body positivity is encouraging yourself to accept you're gonna transform eventually. When you're 40, when you're 50, you're gonna get wrinkles, you know, all these things. So yeah, definitely body positivity should have taken another route instead of just saying it's for bigger people because it's not, it's for all the variety of people that need to accept your changing. - Get behind that. - I think the pendulum has switched to the furthest extreme. I think body positivity was created because there wasn't a space for people who could have acceptance in bigger bodies. And I think it's just gone to the furthest extreme now and like women come in all shaping sizes, right? And every woman is beautiful. And I think that you should really be confident in your body and the way that you look, you know, wake up feeling your best. But I feel like especially on social media and in society today, this body positivity movement, it's, I've seen like multiple times where there's like obese women promoting body positivity. And it's like, I wouldn't want like my kid. - What's obese for you? - And like like a like an unhealthy lifestyle. - No, no, why is why a what's obese for you? - Obese like like a medical, like medically. - For me, if you see me. - Okay, I just wanna put this out there. There's no such thing as obese for you. It's just obese. I mean, like there's medical literature about what constitutes being obese. And from when that point, like I guess it's like overweight then obese, then you can usher yourself into the morbidly obese territory. It's highly documented. It's pretty much industry standard. And there's no like my obese and your obese. There's just obese. And I would imagine, you guys can correct me on this or fact check me, the general definition of obese is that you have so much weight on your body or so much fat on your body that you are putting yourself at risk of some sort of a cardiovascular event, chronic illness type two diabetes, this, that, and the third. I think that would be when you get into the point of being considered obese. - Real quick, I did just pull up the World Health Organization defines obese as BMI of a 30 or higher for adults, age 18 and older. And the formula for BMI is weight over height, essentially weight and kilograms over height and meters. - Okay, so there you go. - There you go. - Meal, be, I wanna say that you're obese, but it's like medically, you know. - We wouldn't say that she's obese. Come on guys. - So like for example. - So you're a medical obese though? - No, yes. - I've been medical obese since I was like 12 and I was not obese. - Well does anybody here, would anybody here explain what they mean by medical obese? - Exactly. - Like BMI? - At this, like when you go to the doctor's office and you get weight on a scale and they'll tell you, oh you're a little bit overweight or they'll say you're morbidly obese, you're obese, you're-- - Because if you're high-- - Yeah, like if you look at me, you would be like, oh she's a little bit plus sized, but I am technically considered obese. - So I-- - That's why I can't do what this is but I do it. Sometimes, I'm not advocating for a Myron in this episode, but sometimes you need somebody with about like 10% of that energy to just be like, let me just lay out what the truth is here, okay? Yeah, I think I would put these women in the category of being an obese, of being obese and that's not to be rude, it's not to insult them, it's just to be medically accurate. - I was obese, I think it's 30 BMI, now the BMI, we've come to learn that it's a little bit tricky now. - Right, it's not the most accurate. - Right. - But that's what it's based off. - Yeah, right. - But so correct, but now that when I was a size 14, I was considered obese, it's smaller than we think. - I think an obese person, and this is not, you know, calling absolutely anybody obese, but I think a person that can be considered obese will not be able to go on walks, they will lose their breath, they were, for me, because I am a person that I'm big, but I'm, like I said, I'm still able to go on hikes and I won't lose my breath, I can go on runs, I can exercise. So if for the doctors, I'm obese, because of the size and the stuff that I am, for the doctors, for me it is not the way that it works, because an obese person, I've had friends who are skinny, we go on walks, and they're losing their breath. So high up, basically, just the... - Okay, so if I was going on walks or going on hikes, and I had an inability to do that, or I couldn't breathe, would she qualify me as obese, given her own metrics? Obviously it's not the truth. So obesity is something different than her new reality that she's shifting for herself, because she wants to be able to remain in the state that she's in or justify the state that she's in. It's great that she can go on walks and hike and exercise and all these different things. That remains a separate fact as to whether or not you qualify as being obese. And we do like all these like mental gymnastics to make ourselves feel better about the situation that we're in, when you can feel okay about it, except that that's the position that you're in, and maybe think about how we can get out of it, because obesity doesn't have to have, you know, these negative connotations attached to it, the negative connotations attached to obesity, or the negative impact of obesity, is like a purely medical health perspective. So we run away from it because it makes us feel bad, but it is simply the reality, and you probably need to confront that reality, because it's going to lead you to a better life. If she's walking and exercising and hiking and doing all this wonderful stuff now, imagine where she could be, with really focusing on her health and maybe her weight a little more. - The health parameter of how visible you can be. It's not a physical manifestation of the body. - What the doctor says, that bad word, it's, he's looking on a chart, versus saying, you can't. - How many people have been bad diagnosed? - He's not saying, he's not saying, "You're ill, and you can't walk up that hill." - I have to say that to me. - You go, "I have that doctor to say that to me." - I'm obese, and I can still walk up that hill, and that's what's fabulous about it, right? It doesn't automatically mean you're ill, but also down the road, absolutely it's going to mean you're ill. You're lucky with your genetics currently, down the road, it's not going to be the same story. - But this is the thing, you think they're genetics, but since I was really young, I'm active. I'm an active woman. - I never said you're not active. - No, no, no, no, no, no, I know, but I'm just responding to what you're saying. I know you're not saying that I'm not active. I'm responding to what you're saying about the doctors and stuff like that, because I have had doctors tell me that. - Tell me what. - That I'm obese, and that I cannot exercise, that why am I not exercising, why am I not doing the effort? There's doctors that have bad diagnosed me, for things that I've never had, and I've. - Okay, the diagnosis is correct, regardless of what the doctor says after that. If the doctor says you're obese, you're not putting an effort, you're not exercising, you're not eating right, okay. Let's separate the diagnosis from maybe what they're saying your level of activity is, they can very well be wrong about their projection of the level of activity that you're doing, that doesn't discount the fact that you are medically obese. - I'm medicated for things that I've never had, so it's like, it's. - They're killing us too, so. - We went down a tangent for that, I wanna, we're talking about body positivity, whether we think it promotes unhealthy habits, we're gonna bring in our disagreeing. - Oh my gosh. - I think it's gonna come up. - So I didn't step forward because I really hate the toxicity that has come from people being like, "Oh, body positivity promotes obesity," and blah, blah, blah. I hate that so much. I think there is like the minutest people who are doing that, the vast, vast majority. I do not think promote obesity. Body positivity, to me, is just loving your body, accepting your body how it is and not hating yourself. Like, you shouldn't have to wake up every day because you're 400 pounds and hate yourself. Like, you know, I don't think anybody should be hating themselves, so that, to me, is. - I mean, nobody's saying that you should have to wake up every day and hate the body that you're in. - But also, like, if you, every once in a while, get a reminder of like, "Oh, I'm 400 pounds," you know, between now and the death's door, I probably wanna do something about that, or I'm gonna hit death's door a lot faster than I think my body was intended to be in that space. Not to mention the weight, the fat, and how that affects your body, your chemistry, all of these different things, it makes you hate yourself. I don't think people talk enough about how living an unhealthy lifestyle and living in the body that reflects that unhealthy lifestyle actually is reflected in your mind as well. And the messages that your mind is giving itself, your body is telling you, "We need to do something about this. "We need to be healthier. "This is not okay. "This is not okay. "This is not okay." And that can manifest in depressive thoughts, thoughts of self-loathing, thoughts of despair, and, you know, it's not all societally created. The condition you're putting your body in is going to be reflected in your mind's thoughts. - That's what body positivity is about, and it's also about equality in how people are treated. Like, for example, Lizzo gets called out so much on, like, "Oh, my God, she's out there with her ass," and stuff, like, "Oh, it's sort of disgusting." But Chapel Rone, who, God, I love Chapel Rone, was at Gumball and came out at Statue of Liberty and had her ass out, did not see a single person online saying, "Oh, so why does she have her ass out?" You know, it's like, it's a double standard. People inherently hate fat bodies and don't think they should be seen in society. - I actually disagree with that because I do see people hating on Chapel Rone for the way that she looks and her outfits, and there's going to be hate on both sides. - Oh, of course, there's gonna be hate. - But I meant, like, the volume of hate that Lizzo gets compared to Chapel Rone. Like, I will completely agree, I think the volume of hate is gonna be different. There are people who don't like the vulgarity of, like, showy outfits all across the board. They wouldn't like it if Shakira's doing it, they don't like it if Lizzo's doing it, but it is a whole different thing if Lizzo's doing it. And you gotta imagine, for a lot of people, you're gonna have either the conscious or subconscious thought that, like, somebody in a fit body who's showing off their body, it's like, at least you put some work in to, like, show off the thing you're showing off, and then with Lizzo, maybe you don't have, you know, the same response from people, and it does maybe feel or we interpret it as being more vulgar given her body size, and given that she's talking about being fat and saying, you know, that bitch is only, you know, like, all the stuff that she was saying about, like, skinny bitches and stuff in her shows, and she did elevate her fatness and talk about it quite a bit, and I think we forget that in her platform. We sort of talk about Lizzo as if she just happened to be fat and happened to be a musician, and she never spoke about it, and the world just started throwing that at her and talking about her in that way and calling her fat. I'm pretty sure she led with that, and that was part of her brand, it was part of her, her package deal, and the world responded to that in kind, and of course, now Lizzo's on a health journey and doing this whole fitness kick, and she has been eating healthy, I think, throughout a lot of her career here and there, obviously, questionably so, given the size and everything, but I wonder what brought about that health journey. - I would say, like, it's much smaller. Like, I just constantly hear about, like, Lizzo, Lizzo, Lizzo, and, you know, I have a question, I have a question about Lizzo. - Oh, she's an event, Lizzo. - One of the-- (laughing) - She's like, wait, she's lost a lot, right, man. - One of the few times I saw her streaming, she had this gorgeous cake, was gifted to her. Enormous, went in with it, with a fork, and was eating constantly, and talking to the camera while she was streaming, the volume of the cake that she ate, I just went, oh my God, how many people are watching this, this is absolutely, this is, I just, it was a horrible representation, I hated every moment of it. What do you say, how about the say about that? - Well, my question would be, if there was a thin person doing that, would you have had that same reaction? - Yes, yeah. - Okay, then, I think it's more about, like, she's not-- - I think we can be honest, the reaction is not the same. I mean, for them, she might be telling the truth, and saying my reaction to a thin person eating that much cake is going to be the same as a fat person, I'm gonna be honest, my reaction is not the same. If I see somebody in a fully-fed body, and they're eating a cake or whatever, I'm like, okay, well, that's strange. I'm like, seeing all this, like, feeder mukbang content that's happening on the internet now, and people who are super into watching people eat, and they're getting millions of views, and millions of likes, and it's this whole, like, separate niche, everywhere from, like, Reagan on TikTok to Nikocado Avocado, and there's just a whole spectrum of people who eat food, and let's be honest with ourselves, if a skinny, beautiful woman is filming herself on TikTok, and she's eating food, and it doesn't matter if she's shoveling it into her face, the comments are gonna be relatively positive compared to somebody who's 300 pounds bigger, and doing the same activity, and it's because what we're seeing informs our opinions. It's a little, it looks a bit more gluttonous when a large person is constantly consuming food, and putting that out on the internet, whereas with the skinny person, you're like, either you have a really high metabolism, or this is not really the way you eat in real life, which for a lot of them, it's the case. They will film themselves eating this unhealthy food, and either they have an eating disorder on the other end, or they're eating very healthy outside of the content that they are creating. So these are the places that our mind goes, and logically so. It's a natural process for humans to think in this way, and sort of decipher what it is they're seeing. So yeah, I would respond differently to a fat person eating a whole cake versus a skinny person, and I could be in the wrong. Maybe that skinny person is just as unhealthy in their daily life as the fat person is, but the body composition is telling me otherwise, and that's just where we're at. - We're not promoting obesity by eating cake on camera. She's just eating cake over camera. - But if she's the representation of body positivity, and she's behaving this way, is that promoting? - Have you noticed that she just posted a video that she lost weight? - No, no absolutely not. - She's posted a video if she lost weight. - You can see the difference. - Because I don't want her in my eyes with them. - So it was just probably that one day that you saw her doing that, but that doesn't identify her as a whole person. - Yeah, in defense of Lizzo. (all laughing) - Lizzo! - I have seen her post like, "Oh, here's the green smoothie that I got, or here's me with my salad, or like here I am at the gym." I think there is this weird stigma where people that are overweight have to be perfect all the time. They can never just like, you know, just have a cake. And I agree, I agree, it's not great. I'm not saying that's great, not great, but I'm saying that this one instance of her doing this amidst all her other ones of her trying to be healthy. - Can I go on the opposite? - I don't know, man. I think our society has become far more accepting of fat people than it has ever been in any other like time in history. You know, outside of like old school human civilization where like being fat was a sign of wealth and all these different things. You know, in like the 90s, 2000s, we were calling like Britney Spears fat. We were saying like, she's chubby, she's putting on pounds or whatever. Now you have like the test holidays, the Lizzos, the Ashley Grahams. These are plus size models and celebrities who are being cheered on for their size, who are in Lizzo's case, employing like big girl dancers for all their concerts or whatever and being cheered on for that. It's a relatively accepted thing in society to be large. Now, are you gonna get hate comments on the internet? If you're posting content about like eating and things like that, of course, that's the nature of being on the internet, regardless of who you are, you're gonna get hate comments. But as a society, we're pretty accepting of this stuff. Considering that on average, all of our weights are going up and consistently so. Obesity is such a huge problem and so many people are impacted that of course, you know, I don't know that it's that hard to be a fat person in today's society. I think it would have been much harder in the past. TBH. - For sure, we do got a $50 super chat here from FYT who says body positivity has been warped into something unhealthy. It's meant for things out of your control, genetic baldness, stretch marks, and those size freckles and amputations, alopecia, height, et cetera, things that you can't fix and should learn to embrace. - Yeah, definitely. It's not meant to like cheer on unhealthy habits and say that this is something that we should be positive about or accepting of personally, you know. - Said that like with Lizzo, there's like Eugenia Clooney. She's a very petite, tiny woman. Why are people saying, "Oh, good job, Lizzo." Like good job for eating healthier, but like when Eugenia Clooney is like, it's trying to eat something like that. But is Eugenia Clooney allowed to have hashtag body positivity? - She does sometimes, does she? - Anybody can have hashtag body positivity on their own posts. Nobody is cheering on Eugenia Clooney. And you guys, I'm sure you guys know who Eugenia Clooney is. If you don't, I'm gonna show you a picture. She is struggling with severe anorexia and she has been struggling with severe anorexia. One of the most severe cases of anorexia I think I've ever seen or the internet has ever seen. You know, here is Eugenia Clooney. Nobody is cheering on this woman in any way, shape or form. Her constant, her comments are constantly flooded, you know, with people telling her to get on a healthy path and to get to a place where her body is, you know, in a healthier state. I mean, just look at her. It's literally skin and bone. So I'm not sure where she's going with this point. - She promotes herself literally wearing, like, tightness without this, showing her body. - That was my whole point is like these extremes are hijacking it. - Yeah, I think they're not your representation. - Yeah, like the algorithm, they will push out the most extreme cases 'cause they get the most used and that's what people want to see. - Yes, it's dangerous. - Including these conversations. (laughing) Although this was pretty, yeah, pretty reasonable. All right, let's reset. - No matter who you are, there's no denying that in you though. - Not the Morgan and Morgan and you. You've all still got your support. - For the people. - I have taken a weight loss drug. Will the agreeers please step forward? - Yeah. I guess everybody's, I haven't. I guess I'll put that on the record. (laughing) - I have any chance to see what do we need to find as drugs? - I think we're talking about the weight. - Like a Zempil? - Yeah, well any. - Like diet pills? - Any drug that you've taken. - For everyone else. - Sorry. Yeah, come on in, let's hear your story too. - I have used weight loss drugs before I knew the power of them in college and you could get them over the counter but they were incredibly strong and probably needed to be controlled at that time. Wow, I was just so obsessed with my body size. I've pretty much my whole life and that's just the culture, American culture that I was raised in and lived in. So I would try drastic means and I've done things that would just get you super wired. Even as an adult, once I figure it out, how to eat, I gained the weight back during the lockdown. Like a lot of people did. - I would have much rather the prompt be like, I agree with the use of weight loss drugs or I agree with the perpetuation of the use of weight loss drugs. I find oftentimes when Jubilee is doing male middle grounds, it's more about their opinions about the way society is going or like what they prescribe for society and with women they ask more about their experiences. So it'll be like questions about like, what is your relationship with your body? Have you ever done this? Do you have an eating disorder rather than like, how do you feel about this certain thing? That's what I want to know. I want to see them go out each other. - And I go, gosh done, I was so upset and I took a prescription weight loss drug that I got was prescribed by a doctor and I was able to drop the weight quickly. I use it as a biohack. I use it short term just to get the weight off because once the weight is off, now it's on you. You have to know how to eat. - So this is more recently. - Yep, and this is absolutely recent too. - Was it like those impacts, something like that? - Dentermine, you can get it prescribed. It's a controlled substance. It's hardcore, but it takes the thought process out of your mind. That thing, that monster that always tells you, you're gonna get your next serotonin kick by that food and you're hyper focused on eating. And it takes that monster, it stops talking. So now when the monster stops talking, you go, I can control this, I can make changes in my lifestyle in order to make healthier decisions to keep the weight off that I just lost with this drug. And, you know, yeah. - What you hope is the case. I think the one thing about these shortcuts with weight loss drugs is that because you're not putting in the work to actually find a diet that works for you, find an exercise plan that works for you and you're short cutting it with drug usage and cutting off the messaging that tells you that you're hungry or when you eat it makes you nauseous and all these different things. Once you're off the weight loss drug and you found a weight that you're happy with and you found a physique that you're happy with, you've not built any healthy habits on the other end of the utilization of this drug. So you go back to your processed food eating, you go back to not working out in your sedentary lifestyle. And then you're putting the weight back on. You see a lot of people on Ozambic and Wigovi who stop the drug and then they pack the weight right back on. So you kind of have to build habits. If you're gonna use these weight loss drugs, you know, I don't know if it's the best options. Doctors are saying up and down, this is gonna be the cure for obesity and this is gonna be the new way forward. We're no longer gonna have to worry about diet and exercise will just let Big Pharma take care of these things for us. And while it may get you to where you need to get quicker, you're not building any of the healthy mindset tools to maintain it. And I don't know that it just works as well that way. And nevermind that like the Ozambic Wigovi weight loss look does not look natural because it literally is not natural. You have people getting Ozambic face where their face is sort of looking skeletal, their neck gets sunken in and you have like this large head that's now on a skinny body that's lost weight in really strange places. So I think the world is telling us this is a natural means when we have other ways of going about this that requires a little bit more hard work. - So desperate to lose weight. I was like on TikTok scrolling through and like they were sharing like, "Oh, this drug does this and this is that." And I was like, "Okay, I'm going to go ahead "and just blindly buy this thing and show it up." - Do you know what kind of drug it was? - It was a pill that I took and it really, it like suppressed my want. - What pill did you take? - Which just goes to show, probably very little research was put into what she took. She saw that it worked for somebody, she ordered it, she started taking it. Who knows what she was putting in her body? - To eat food. But it also like had some really bad side effects. Like when I would eat, I would feel sick after and I realized like, "Oh, I'm feeling horrible all the time "and having this energy low "and like just feeling physically sick." - How long were you on it? - I was on it for two months, maybe. - Did you lose weight? - I lost some weight, but as soon as I got off of it, I gained all of that weight back. I gained all of that. - You have to know what to do, what you're there and what are you gonna do? - Exactly, it was like the crutch and like, you just relied on it so much and then once it was gone, you had to do your own thing. - You have to figure it out. - You have to figure it out. And the pill was doing all that for you and then for me, I gained more weight than I lost when I was on it. - Let's bring in our disagreeers. - So I've heavily considered taking Osempeh, but I've decided not to because you either have to stay on that drug long-term to keep those effects or if you get off of it, most people are gonna gain the weight back. So I'm no longer interested in anything that is not a complete lifestyle change. Like for me, I have learned over the years that I would prefer to be fat and happy than thin and miserable. So like right now, I'm just trying to eat less processed food, stay away from like sodas and stuff for the most part, but I will never count calories. Like, because to me, that leads to disordered eating habits for you, for me personally. Yes, I'm not talking for everyone, okay. I'm not talking for everybody, but for me personally, and I do think for a lot of people, it can lead to disordered eating. - Kind of circling back to the topic about taking weight loss drugs. Hell no, I would never take a weight loss drug. I worked really hard for my body and I'm a very big believer in that phrase, like if you wanted to, you could. Wouldn't you be so much happier if you lost the weight and you look back on it and it was like, yeah, like, I did that. - Exactly. - That was 100% all me. I didn't need no help. I didn't need no cheat codes. This was the work that I put in and I got the results that I wanted. - And that was the mindset that I wish that I had before I took the drugs. 'Cause like, I was super naive. I was like 18 years old and I had no knowledge about anything and I was looking for a quick fix 'cause all these people were telling me, "Oh, you need to lose the weight, you need to do this." And that was in my own household. So it was my family telling me this. And along with my friends and everything like that, it's a life. - We're telling you the truth, but maybe it led you to an unhealthy path. I'm just like wondering what are the long-term effects of also these drugs to the Olympics and the Gobi's, the semi-glutatide or whatever drugs that people are taking and I don't know that we have the answers on that yet. So it'll be very interesting to see what's happening. I mean, we were watching it in Hollywood now is like they've gotten all these cosmetic procedures as they were hitting the market and, you know, the filler and the Botox and this, that and the third. And it's actually leading them down the path of being botched when they're older. So I wonder what Ozemphic is going to do for people who are taking it now as a means of looking better and looking healthier. I mean, what you had, Elon Musk on Wagovi, Christina, Galera on Ozemphic of some sort, Oprah did Ozemphic, Sharon Osborn's daughter, whatever her name is, Kelly Osborn or whatever, said the only reason people are hating on me for doing Ozemphic is because they're poor and they can't afford to. Okay, babe, just check back in in 20 years, 20 plus. And let's see how you're doing, let's see how you look because you're not only putting yourself on the path, but being condescending towards people who are maybe raising their hands and saying, I don't know if that's healthy. Lifestyle change, ultimately. These are tools that you can utilize, but if you are not changing your lifestyle to go with it, then what will have been important. And so I think that's really ultimately what it is. And you're not ready to commit to the lifestyle change. Using these tools is not going to help you. When people do these quote unquote shortcuts a lot of the time, like mentally, they're not there. So they lose the weight and then they're still like-- Not fixing the problem. Exactly, it was like, it was this quick fix and now that it's, you know, they get off it, like everything mentally, like that they were at when they were at a bigger weight is still there, like they didn't put in that mental work, like doing it on their own. Yeah, it's like when you watch those shows, like my 500 pound life or, you know, like the one ton person or whatever the stupid, like, lifetime shows. A lot of these doctors before you go in for a gastric bypass, gastric sleeve, whatever surgery you're going to get, these bariatric surgeries, they're going to say, hey, you got to start putting in some more. I need to see you lose at least like, you know, 50, 100 pounds before even considering doing this surgery because I know, I need to know that you're going to be able to maintain some sort of habit and you can do so consistently before I make this huge decision to cut your stomach, you know, in half or in a quarter because people will get out of these surgeries and you can only eat, like, you know, a few bites of food as soon as these things are done and because they haven't built a consistent habit, they're eating and eating and eating. In some cases, the stomach stretches right back to the same size it was before. In others, your stomach can split if you are not careful about how much food you're consuming and, you know, we like to think that can never happen to us but sometimes you build such awful habits that you just can't get off of it and it manifests in different ways. I think, unfortunately, for people who are addicted to food or live sedentary lifestyles, you know, you have to wear the weight on your body and that's something that sucks because a lot of very skinny, beautiful people have very horrible vices that are taking over their lives. It just doesn't manifest physically so they don't get the judgment from the outside world that you get for being fat but it is just, you know, the way the cookie crumbles and it's unfortunate situation for you but also maybe it lights a little bit of a fire under your ass that somebody who's beautiful and skinny, you know, never gets confronted with so then they head down the path of their addiction and their vice without ever being confronted with the reality of it because it doesn't manifest in a physical sense. So we can look at it, it's like, whoa, is me? I'm so underprivileged, you know, being fat is so hard. The world is fat, phobic, or maybe the world is tailored for you to get over this thing that you're dealing with and for you to be able to jump over this boundary whereas for other people, that's not the case. - We gotta reset, I'm getting the signal. - Fit women are more attractive than fat women. Will the agreeers please step forward? - BFFR. BFFR. - I would definitely agree. Fit women are more attractive than, like, plus-size women only because me having this body. - One person walks forward. One out of eight people walks forward for fit women are more attractive than fat women. If this does not tell you, we are living in Piedalulu society. I don't know what to tell you. Even if I'm 500 pounds, I'm gonna walk forward for that and sit down and say that that's the truth. What? I have to hear the justification when the disagreeers walk forward for this one. - It shows that I can commit to something, right? And it shows that I'm hardworking, so I feel like men looking at my body can see, oh, okay, she's dedicated. She put in the work and that could be an attractive quality that men see, and I would definitely go for like a more muscular guy. So that kind of shows that we have something in common, something that we can work on together. - So, Jimmy. - She's making a valid point. But that is like the lowest point on my list of the reasons why fit women are more attractive than fat women from like a Darwinian evolutionary perspective. We are looking at the survival of the fittest. So the fit women are going to be more attractive. You are going to survive longer as far as your breeding capabilities. You're going to have more than a fat woman is going to have. Once you get to a certain level of obesity, you're actually cutting off your ability to have children in many cases. And it becomes a fertility issue. You start to have to have conversations about IVF or even total infertility when you reach a certain point of obesity with that impact on the body. So fit women are just biologically tailored to be more attractive than fat women. Not to mention if you're looking for longevity, you want somebody who's going to be around longer to be able to have kids, to raise those kids, to be grandparents, to just lead a lengthy life. A fit woman is in a better position than a fat woman is. You want a woman who's going to be physically active, who's going to be able to run around, to take care of children, to go on dates with you. A fit woman is going to be more capable of that than a fat woman is. And then of course we have just what we're looking for as far as attractiveness, which some people argue is totally subjective, but we do have some objective standards for attractiveness, meaning when people are pulled in a general sense, we tend to move towards certain features. And that's things like, you know, symmetry, a physically fit in healthy body and fit women tend to have those things when compared, you know, more than fat women do. So there's just like, we keep going all day. - Dates. - Yeah, gym dates, for sure. - All right, thank you. Can we bring in the disagreements? - I feel like I'm gonna get blamed alive now, it's all good. - I'm bisexual, so I love women. - Hey girl, cheers. - I love you too. - Yes, all the bisexuals. - I think all women are beautiful. I've had relationship with women. There are fat, there are not fat, variety. And I can tell you that personality wise, the skinniest ones and the most beautiful ones have had a personality that I cannot work with. - Me. - Personally, me. So, and it comes from a place that the way that I grew up, the way that they grew up, thoughts, minds, you surround yourself with people that you like, that it's like you. Your personality has more beauty than the way that you look. - Your physical looks will disappear. My grandma, she used to be a very petite, tiny woman, grew up in the Philippines, my grandfather the same way. Now they're a little bigger, they're more comfortable, 50 years later, still in love. - Copium is a hell of a drug, y'all. I can't deal with this right now. I just can't deal with it. What they're saying, okay, some of what they're saying is true, which is so interesting because like, in a lot of like specifically leftist ideology, there'll be like little seeds of truth, but then they use that little seed of truth to just like completely explode all of reality and all of objective truth. So is it true that maybe somebody who exists in a larger body might have other personality characteristics that beat out maybe a skinny woman? Totally. A lot of people who are maybe less attractive or they live in larger bodies or for men, you have like tall men and short men. A lot of women say, you know, tall men don't have personalities. I talk to them and they have nothing of substance to say. Whereas when I meet a short guy, he's got this huge bombastic personality and he's funny and he's like, he's got a business going for himself. It's because we're given certain, you know, bonuses in our lives and some people don't have to work in others and some have to like overcompensate. So you hear like the FFF, the funny fat friend or whatever, that's totally a stereotype that exists and that's something that she's speaking to. But to use that kernel of truth to say that now fat women are more attractive than fit women, it's just a little bit of a, that's a jump. And then the second girl says, you know, we lose our looks, we lose our attractiveness with age. Absolutely, kernel of truth in that, 100%. But if you're starting off in a larger body, the rate at which you lose those looks is going to be expedited far more than the fit woman is. So we can't use that to just completely explode the idea that maybe fit women are more attractive than fat women. - My grandpa always makes jokes like, well, I remember growing up here like, this is Burger King and this is McDonald's, I'm the king and I'm loving you. And I'm like, that's my grandfather. You showed me, like, you can appreciate a woman through all the changes, you know, like, exactly. And that's why I love, like, you can, I could be, once I get skinny, like, my boyfriend can still love me, but maybe he loves me more 'cause I am personally. - I think people like to be like, oh, it's always gonna be the fit woman is more attractive than the plus size women. I just don't think that's true. Like, there's a lot of beautiful fit women, there's also a lot of not, very beautiful ones. - Right, yes. - You know what I mean? To assume that size will always equal more attractive, I just think is like, silly, it's a piece by case basis. I'm more on the health, okay. - Yeah. (laughs) - When I go with this, you could have, and this just sounds like so superficial, and this is not the way that I lead my life, but it's just the truth. You could have a zero out of 10 looking face, okay? And you put the zero out of 10 looking face on a morbidly obese body, and you're dealing with not much going on there. You put the zero out of 10 face on a super fit body that's put in the work that is working out at the gym that is eating healthy. You're moving up as far as your attractiveness. That is just the case. And for women in particular, if you want to put a group of 100 men in a room and ask them which one's more attractive and put the same face on a larger body and the same face on a smaller body, they're gonna tell you the fitter body is more attractive because it speaks to so much more than just your attractiveness. It speaks to your work ethic, it speaks to your lifestyle, it speaks to what your relationship is going to look like, what it's going to be like to have kids with you, there are so many things. And that's not to say that there are no men who are attracted to bigger women. We know that's not the case. There are men out there that love a curvy woman, that love big women, that even love morbidly obese women. And that's like a whole thing for them. It's just to say on average, we know we're attractiveness lies. - Healthy side. - Well, you can be-- - They're not healthy. - That's very rare. - But the biggest issue I have with what you said, I disagree with you. I think as a fit girl as well. Fit grilies. If I still disagree with you because there's beautiful women who are in bigger bodies. Like I feel like it's an arrogance almost to be like, oh, because I'm fit, I'm more attractive. Like that's, it's ridiculous. And the biggest issue I have with what you said about men being attracted to you more just because you're fit, I think that that's basing your worth on a man. And I'm marrying as a married woman saying that, I just don't understand what that has to do with the principle of just physical attraction. - It's literally evolution. It's literally evolution. So we don't derive all of our worth from how men view us. And I don't think that's the way that we should go about life. But we literally have biological drivers telling us as women, you need to find a man who finds you attractive, who you find attractive, who wants to make children with you. So there is a little bit of worth as far as human fulfillment and procreation that is derived from men finding you attractive. And because we live in this like modern feminist society where we have to decenter men, which is centering men. If you are living your life to decenter men, you're constantly thinking about men, probably more so than the women who are looking for a man to get married to and have children with. But this is how the world works. For all animals alike, we're all looking to like procreate and a lot of that is where we derive worth in our life. And a side effect of that is needing to find somebody who finds you attractive, whether you like it or not, just like she did with her husband. - I have nothing to do with, if someone else deems you as attractive, it's like just solely based on the physical. So I 100% disagree with you. - I was debating actually stepping forward because of just what society has taught me. My whole life is like, then it's more beautiful. That is more beautiful. That is more beautiful. And I've really had to work on unlearning that. Like for so many years, so many years, when I was like, you know, 1920, I was like, oh, the reason I'm not in a relationship is 'cause I'm fat. Like I need to lose weight and then I'll become in a relationship. Then someone will love me. And I thought that for so many years. And like myself confidence was like, down here. And I really had to work on unlearning that. And I'm still trying to unlearn that. But like I have learned over the years that people are attracted to different things. So if you ask one person, they're gonna tell you, oh, this is what I'm attracted to. And if you ask someone else, they might have a completely different answer. So I think attractiveness is subjective. I think when-- - Of course it is. People are all attracted to different things. Science and longevity, however, are attracted to fitness. And fitness often coincides with, you know, fitness being lean, being muscular. So these two things can exist at the same time. And it's not necessarily society that's telling you, thin is beautiful, thin is beautiful, thin is beautiful. It is science telling you that. It is your body telling you that. - When it comes to society, society 100% says skinnier is better. - I mean, I hear a lot of what you're saying, but I'm curious. Anybody want to share like, what is the type of body that you're attracted to? - To men, on men, other-- - Well, I don't know. There's people who are attracted to you. (laughing) So whether it's men or women, what kind of bodies are you attracted to? - 'Cause I've been smaller and bigger. I am tall. I already am eliminating a majority of people 'cause I'm one dollar man, me. But you know what, somebody on your show, Zach Meiko? - Was that the tall guy? - He'll see him. - It was the model. - Oh yeah. - That was a plus size one. - Okay. - He's got a little dad body going on. - Is Zach? - Yes. - He's officially married. - So, I have dated some fantastically gorgeous men, but where I feel most comfortable and myself and I can feel just kind of let it all out is a guy that's a little, has some cushion. Gym people for gym people. (laughing) And that kind of seems like unattainable, not my vibe. - No, I appreciate the specificity. (laughing) - So I do have a type, but also like I've never dated before. So, I'd say my type goes from Prince Eric to Fluffy. (laughing) - Fluffy, Gabriel Leglesius, he's funny. I'll give him my, I'll give him my, I'll give him my. - He has the comedian Fluffy. I just feel like I could hug him. He would give the best hugs and be the best person. - Dude, I'm like purely thinking of like, if we're an emergency situation, who's like, "What's your level of fitness?" (laughing) How are you gonna handle this? You're the man, your men's protect. What's gonna be the deal? So like fitness as a man can show up in a total, a ton of different bodies. Like you can be sort of like cushiony or whatever. Like you ever seen a Samoan guy, they're huge, they're strong. You like, they may come off as like looking bigger, but you know they're capable. So it's like all about, all about capability. And capability comes in a lot of different shapes and sizes. I guess I would just like, I would not go for like morbidly obese, but like as long as you're strong and capable, you're good. You're good. - You're so like cold, hard, rationality, and your analysis. It's not like there's a romantic side, but I just like, this is my type. It's like, can you protect me in a situation when you confront the danger? (laughing) That's like the only, just like check that box and then we're good, huh? - Yeah, I guess so. I mean, like it helps, like if you're attractive, awesome, cool, like, and especially like if you have like an attractive face or whatever, but as far as like your body goes, as long as like your body's capable and you can do stuff, I'd be like, that's attractive. You know, like when you watch UFC fighters, UFC fighters have such like a wide swath of body types, but they're all just like beasts. They're killer, you know? So I mean, yeah, if you're capable of that, sold. - For very wide range. (laughing) - Wide range, a lot of infinites to that, but like I don't discriminate against like body type or anything like that. - It's funny 'cause for me as a bisexual woman, like my, what I like in women versus what I like in men is like very different. So men, I'm very much like you. Like dad bods are kind of like what I'm the most attracted to. I don't want someone like super, super big, but I also don't like super skinny or like super, super buff. Like you have a little muscle, that's fine, but like a really buff guy is like, not my thing. But for women, I like weigh more different kinds of women. Like they and big, like, I don't know. I'm just way more attracted. I think when it comes to different kinds of women, like when I'm swiping on dating apps, like I'll maybe swipe on like one in every 20 men and like women, it's like one in five. (laughing) Interestingly enough, she mentioned super fit guys. That's something that I would like cancel. And by super fit, I mean, like if you look like you're on steroids, like if you look like you're on HDH, I'm like, I'm not gonna be going for that at all. Because it's just like, you know, morbidly obese. Probably gonna dive like a cardiovascular event around age 50 on human growth hormone. Probably gonna dive in a cardiovascular event around age 50. You might like look great or whatever. Like I don't know, like Sam Sulick does not look good to me. And I know like a lot of guys really love Sam and they're like, I wanna see, you know, the extent to which the male physique can go and how much he can lift or whatever, but broke and not get through one sentence without huffing, puffing and heaving. And that is not at all attractive. So you can come in like a super fit body if we even call it that. I disqualify that from being a super fit body. Although a lot of men will disagree with me on that to like a morbidly obese body. And the impact as far as like attractiveness and like from an evolutionary perspective is exactly the same. Those are no different for me. I like that he's putting an effort and like he's chosen to sort of like literally sacrifice his health in the pursuit of something that he's passionate about. But it's just not, it's not for me. - I wanted to see how big a thing the actual dad bod attractiveness is. I asked you guys in the chat, ladies, which physique is most attractive? Super fit, generally athletic, dad bod or overweight slash other. - 5% say super fit, 78% say generally athletic, 15% dad bod and the only 2% overweight for five hours. - Wow. - Very interesting. You hear so much everyone's like, oh yeah, I love the dad bod, I love the dad bod. But it seems like they've just kind of not crazy, you know, Ronnie Coleman bodybuilder physique but just generally athletic seems to be winning out at least in the audience. - Yeah, I guess I'm not shocked at all. 'Cause like dad bod is beating super fit is kind of shocking. It may be super fit would be like neck and neck with dad bod, but that's wild. You guys are going for the dad bod more, which like women are like we more forgiving as far as what they're attracted to physically because there's just so many other metrics where we're judging men on. So it makes total sense. Plus like people, people love a dad bod, it makes you feel comfortable, it makes you feel warm or whatever. And then you're also like, I don't feel threatened that this man is going to. - I think that's a big deal. - I mean, women don't want. - But it just, it seems like, but it's also maybe like you're more comfortable yourself. Like I feel like guys who care so much about their physique oftentimes tend to be on the insecure side, you're putting all your self-worth in that physical aspect. And you know, it's like almost a high maintenance in a sense. And so I can see why women wouldn't want to deal with that. But I can also see that like other women will be maybe attracted to someone like that. And I just want a dad bod normal guy because then I'm not threatened by other people trying to steal my hand type of thing. - That's part of it. It's subconscious. - I never admit it, but it's there. - Women, I just think overall are much more beautiful than men. Like even. - And we have better profiles. Let's get this done. - Yeah, set that up. - Let's get that too. - All right, let's reset. - Let's reset. - It's okay for models to set a high standard for body image. Will the agreeers please step forward. - Absolutely. I've been seeing obviously the clips of the Victoria Secret and Angel's show that's been happening recently and how they've sort of reverted back to hotness and like that skinny classic Victoria Secret Angel with a lot of diversity interwoven into it. You know, they had like trans people and all different skin tones, but still have that Victoria Secret Angel vibe and that's totally okay. When I see a model who has just like completely just like that gives you an out of body experience. That's how beautiful they are. Like for instance, Anaki Ay, who is obviously extremely diverse, but I mean just like look at that woman. Just look at how absolutely stunning and symmetrical and gorgeous she is. You can look at that and be like lucky you girl, lucky you bitch that you got that, that you got that genetic lottery that say the face card is lethal. The body is lethal. I'm just like, you know what, good for you. Good for you and that's how I feel. It shouldn't make you feel like shame or horrible about yourself or you feel like you don't have to like you need to eat celery for the next two weeks because you saw somebody who happened to like, you know, benefit from from being born in a certain body shape and with a certain face. I'm just like, damn, that's awesome. And sometimes you can like aspire to it and you say like, okay, I want to get as close to that as possible. So I'm going to try to leave the healthy lifestyle that I can to to get there and that's fine too. It shouldn't make you feel ashamed of yourself that there are people who are more beautiful than you out there. And like what a weird position to be in to feel so insecure about that that on the other end of it, you want to starve the world of people being able to see this beautiful thing. Sometimes you have people that are born into situations that are just like that just dumb found you of like their genetic capability, what they're capable of with athleticism. I'm thinking of like Michael Phelps. He's in a really unique genetic position to be doing what he's doing and swimming and in competing in the Olympics. And he's got those genetic benefits. We would never go, well, because that makes me feel ashamed of myself or feel like I'm incapable, we should hold off his star power from the world. I feel the same way about models. Just let them go out there and do their thing and be recognized as beautiful. And Taylor's wife. I feel like Taylor needs to tell this story. Taylor's what your wife is like one of those people who's like, let me see the hot women. (laughing) - Oh yeah, I mean, she said the thing when she goes into Victoria's Secret. I don't know if they've gone back to the hot models now. I think they're maybe trying to, but she's like, I want to feel hot in this stuff, but what I'm seeing on the walls and all this stuff, it's not giving that same vibe that it used to give. And so what's the point? There needs to be some element of aspiration to it. So I get it. But like you were saying, it's this whole philosophy of equity ends up being about pulling down the top performers or the outliers or the people who embody attractiveness in the most exceptional way. Your athleticism or economic productivity, equity isn't about bringing everybody up. It's about pulling everyone down to the lowest common denominator. Then you just make the world far less interesting and you ruin motivation for so many people. And you know, what makes the world interesting and beautiful is to see what outliers are capable of. Like I'm a band of Tom Brady and Tiger Woods because it's just amazing to see, wow, he literally won that many majors. He's really separated himself from the rest of the competition that much more just because he's capable of doing something that other people aren't capable of doing. What an exceptional thing. That should be like, you know, inspiring. And if you're feeling less than because you don't attain to what the highest exceptions of society are attaining to, that's a separate question. That's a separate conversation and that's more on you. Don't deprive the world like you're saying of being able to see those exceptions because you feel insecure. That's kind of on you. So we should, you know, we should have room for that but we should also have a culture that tells people it's okay to be you. They're exceptions for a reason. And we can have self-acceptance without having to pull everyone else down who does better. - Yeah. And we're gonna talk about how there's like a difference in like the fundamental belief of those things between men and women here in a little bit because I'm sure this is going to highlight it very soon. But you'll see a very big difference and opinion on these things between men and women. - I did some modeling as a kid and as a teenager and even I was an adult, I did pinup. There's definitely like a high association in standard especially like in runway modeling and things like that 'cause they push out these clothing and they only do it in certain sizes. There's standards that different companies have that they want to push out so that everything's so like for pinups, they want you to look a certain way. They want you to do your makeup a certain way. They want you to dress a certain way for that style. And same thing for like Victoria's Secret. They want to promote lingerie and there's a standard for each company and they have to live up to that standard based on what they're trying to promote. - And personally for me, I always looked up to thin people. I always found them very beautiful. I was like, I want to be able to look like a Victoria's Secret model one day. It's okay to have a higher standard be 'cause it makes you want like, oh, I want to work harder on myself to achieve that type of body goal. Am I not like exactly like them? Like what the hips and everything? But I want to be able to look a healthy version of myself that looks something like that. 100% and that's totally okay. It's also okay to like to a scan of your body and be like, okay, I'm not a six one female. Oh, okay, I'm not a size two or size double zero or whatever. Does my bone structure sort of give way to that likeness? Maybe not. Okay, that's cool. So cool that they have that and they get to be Victoria's Secret Angels. I don't have that opportunity. That opportunity is closed off for me and it's closed off for me for my entire lifetime. But instead of being like, oh, I'm so accepting of that and it's so cool that we get to do it. They're like, no, we need to change the standards so that I can feel like I can be a Victoria's Secret model too because everybody who's born ever should be made to feel like they can be a Victoria's Secret model. Why not let boys be Victoria's Secret Angels? Why not let people who are morbidly obese be Victoria's Secret Angels? Because nothing can be exclusive anymore. Everything has to include everybody at any given moment and you will find that women suffer from this affliction more than any other people. You don't see men being like, I think Calvin Klein needs to have obese models and I think we need to start bringing 400 pound men into model the underwear because men don't think like that. I think men have access to like the competitive side of their brain in a way that's different to women. Men see a man do something great or like do something that they're incapable of and they're like, oh, man, I wish I could do that but I can't do that and they'll cheer it on. And I think we see this in certain case studies. Like when you look at the NBA, when Victor Juan Maniamo was coming up into the NBA and all these other players were watching this kid and he just like constantly just like duking it out out there. They're like, yo, I'm scared to see him like come out and be on the court with us and I'm so excited to see what he does and I hope he's on my team. Like this is gonna be so cool. I'm quaking in my boots or whatever. Then you watch the WNBA and Caitlin Clark is coming up. She's Rookie of the Year, Indiana Fever, all these different things. And women are just like throwing daggers at this woman saying like, oh, and you know, she's really not that great. Wait till she makes it to the NBA and you have women who have been doing this for decades, da-da-da, she's not that good. They're pushing her down on the court. They're eye gouging her as she's playing the game. It's because women do not feel alert when they have this sort of competitive spirit, like a flare up in them. They feel like they want to just cut down the thing that is making them feel that way. Whereas men are emboldened to like do better and build on themselves when somebody comes to threaten their position. And if they feel like they're incapable of doing better than the guy next to him, they lift him up and say like, dude, get on our team so that we can all do better. Meanwhile, all of these women are trying to shove out Caitlin Clark and get her out of the way. In the same way they're doing with the Victoria's Secret models and every single industry where women feel like they're excluded or they're not meeting the standard, they try to kill the thing that makes them feel that way. And this is not the case for all women. Of course, I'm speaking. In generalities, there are women who are totally unpretened by these things who are super cool, who are super chill about it. But that is a skill that you have to develop over time and through accepting yourself. And that's why we have these conversations about modeling that are talking about including all these different types of people and yada, yada, yada. And you don't hear men say the same thing. - I think it's okay for models to have a higher standard of beauty because we are attracted to attractive things. A model is selling something. They're being hired to sell something and they're gonna make it, hey, look at this. Look at the dress I'm wearing. And you as a consumer, you don't wanna look at somebody that is going to go, ew, I don't even wanna look at that person. What are they selling? I don't know. - Let's bring in our disagreeers. More disagreeers than I expected. - I completely disagree. I think we all forgot what modeling industry has done for women in our society. I think we kind of went blank for a second. Yeah, I'm a journalism major. I have my degree in journalism. And growing up with certain magazines and those women just because they were thin does that mean they were healthy? Have y'all ever-- - Nobody said that. - It's an American sex top model. - Yes! - There's a lot of detrimental things that were happening within that society, within that community. And I agree with you. Yes, we all wanna look at something aesthetically pleasing, but that varies. Also, the modeling industry is known for not being diverse. - Right. - Hello? So I don't know, we just like blacked out. - As I just said, I managed to watch clips from the Victoria Secret Angel Runway or whatever. I saw trans people, I saw black people, I saw mixed people, I saw people of different hair textures or whatever. They all looked banging. Even Alex Consani, who is a trans woman, a man who was transitioned to be a woman, looked banging as a Victoria Secret Angel. And there's no line, no nothing. You can look up Alex Consani, it looked great. So I mean, yeah, there's diversity. You just don't like that your specific body type is excluded from the process. And it's not excluded from everything. It's not like you can't go out and buy clothes where there aren't now runways tailored to diversity of body type and all these different things. It's just to say that this one thing, maybe you are held out from. And the modeling industry is largely to come a joke now. Like anybody can model. I can go out and get fricking signed somewhere to model. And that should not be the case. You know, where you're supposed to be looking at like elitism as far as beauty standards in modeling. And now it's just a free-for-all where anybody can do it. - Four seconds now. - No, it was not when I started. Yeah, but it's not that diverse now either. It's evolving, but I wouldn't go as far as saying it's that diverse. But I think that it can be very detrimental as a young woman. I think the body positivity movement kind of was created in just position because of the modeling industry of the '90s and early 2000s and how toxic that was. - Yeah, I do think we have come a long way, but we still have like much further to go. The average size of the woman in the United States is a size 16. So why are we not seeing that reflected more on runways? - Yeah, because we don't want to be promoting that. That is not, we're supposed to aspire to something. - We literally die. - What? Like it will lead to the death of our civilization if we promote that as the standard. Even if it is the standard, we need to be moving in a direction that is not promoting size 16 being the average. - Modeling and stuff, you know. I also have issues with the event, it comes to a lot of plus size modeling too, because a lot of plus size models they have the curves, but they have no belly. And that's so unrealistic for most plus size women, where it's like, most plus size women, if you are a size 20, like I am, you're gonna have a stomach. - And most of those photos have been Photoshop. - Yeah, or even more happy. - Or even more happy. - Smaller models to make them look bigger. - The standards keep changing. How many models do they need to show to show all the different body types that for this to sell one dress? - Sounds like there's a tension between the market. If the data says-- - Right, if everybody can be a model, it means nothing. It's not an achievement, it's nothing. If everybody can be anything at any given time, you've achieved nothing and you've taken the meaning out of everything that exists in our society, which is their goal. They want everything to lack meaning. They want everything to be subjective. They want your truth, my truth, his truth, her truth, their truth. And when we live in that society, and if they get what they want, trust me, you're all gonna be depressed, you're all gonna have no values, you're all gonna have nothing that makes you feel fulfilled, you're all gonna have no passion because part of what leads to passion and like us wanting to fight for something or us wanting to have fulfillment in our lives is having barriers set in front of us, that things we have to overcome. And sometimes you'll learn that the barriers are too much for you and you need to move in a different direction and you pivot somewhere else and you find passion somewhere else, but if there are no barriers to entry for anything, everything loses meaning. There is no drive, there's nothing to work towards, there is no hurdle to jump over. And that's what they're advocating for. And it's something small like modeling that people say, oh, what does it matter? What does it matter? But this is something that speaks to our standard of beauty, what we view to be role models, what we view as aspirational, what we accept as a society, what we promote as a society. And if everybody can be a model and it's size 16, the size, you know, X, X, X, X, L, two, three, X large or whatever, we are just completely getting rid of anything that can bring about fulfillment. - People click on this body, even if it's unrealistic. - This. - Put that body in the ad. - Yes. - But what you're saying is that does, there's unfair representation of the true custom. - Yeah, exactly. 'Cause then I'll like buy something that I saw on a plus size model who has a flat stomach and then I put it on and it, I hate this 'cause it's clinging to like all the wrong parts. I just wanna see something that looks, it doesn't have to look exactly like me. I think for a long time people. - Everybody just wants society to do all the work for them. They don't want to do any work for themselves. So not only do you get to lead an unhealthy lifestyle that's leading to an unhealthy result, but now society has to cater to you so that you don't have to deal with the repercussions of the decisions that you've made. So now like people who are leading healthy lifestyles who have an aspirational beauty that may lead them to wanna be a model or to be, you know, pedestalized as a model, well, they get pushed aside because you chose to lead an unhealthy lifestyle and now you want that to be reflected into the world because now, on average, we are size 16 unhealthy people who are making bad decisions. So now things that were once aspirational have to reflect our bad decisions because it makes us feel bad to see anything else. - I thought that diversity in sizes wasn't marketable. Like I can't make money from showing all this diversity of sizes, but I think that there are new brands coming like Savage Etch Fenty with Rihanna. She has proven that you can have diverse bodies and you can still market and sell. - That makes me real, most consumers are not the models. They look different. - Women should be fit enough to protect themselves for the agreeors step forward. - Should be. I mean, protect yourself as like a women. We, I was just talking to my boyfriend about this the other day. We were talking about how like men equip themselves with like fitness and brute strength and all these different things and why women are so much better with intuition and being able to like access, you know, analysis of like micro, micro facial movements and like be able to notice when things are off and they have this intuition of just like something is awry here and I need to figure out or I need to distance myself from the situation. And it's because we don't have the physical capacity to protect ourselves in a way that we should be. And when men fail in their intuition and that's not as fine tuned, they can sort of brute strength their way out of it or they're like smart enough and analytical enough to get themselves out of the situation or to build a system that puts them out of the situation. Women do not have the capability if placed in a tough damaging and dangerous situation to brute strength their way out of it. So we have to be more intuitive to sort of see the signs of when something horrible could be happening and put ourselves in a position to not be there when it does. So should a woman be fit enough to protect herself to the extent that you can protect yourself and protect those around you, especially if you're gonna have kids, you wanna be in a position to be able to protect those children. But intuition is always gonna be more important than anything you can do on the other end of fitness. But of course we wanna be in our best physical shape for whatever's going on in the world at any given time. - This is something that I always say. I listen, no shame to people that are thinner, but I just think you're so vulnerable when you're thin. Like if you're petite and you're frail and you're not strong enough to fight back, I don't think that's safe for you. I'm a proponent of like building muscle. That way you're sturdy, that way if someone tries to come up on me, they're going to feel something. - I think, yeah, they'll feel something. You're vulnerable as a woman, period. But be a fit woman if you're gonna, you know, if you're gonna be anything. - Half to? - Yes. - Like it sucks at we're in a society that we do, but we have to. - Yes, let's do that again. - Yeah, you're approaching danger at any moment. Know some punches, know some locks, I don't know. But yeah, definitely stay prepared. - Yeah. - As someone who trains. - You know, I do like that this is where our heads are at. I do like this where our heads are at. I'm like, we talked about this on the show and Taylor and I were like, "Well, you should learn Jiu Jitsu, all right? "I need to start taking Jiu Jitsu classes or whatever." Because if you are in a position as a woman, where you're now at some sort of threat level, put yourself in the best position to be able to take care of it. But also like, there's only so much. There's only so much you can do. So when women are like, throw punches, you know, get them on the ground, put them in a headlock or whatever. Like, okay, is that really realistic? I mean, learn the mechanisms by which you can do those things if necessary. But please be more, you know, proactive about not being in a situation where these things are taking place. But sometimes you just can't. You just can't do anything. Yeah, that's a tough, tough one. - Boxing, boxing and Muay Thai at our facility, like we do offer like women's self defense classes. And like, no matter like what body size you want, I highly recommend every single woman to take at least one class, just so you know the basics and just like for your own protection. - Well, I got attacked by a dog once when I was on the walk. I like came out of this house and it came after me. And I was with a group of friends. Of course it comes up to the big one, don't get me wrong. But it was scary. I couldn't run away from that problem, but my friends are able to. And that came to my mind like, oh my gosh, I'm not good at cardio. I know what I need to prove more on. You need to be able to carry yourself, pull yourself up or you don't run. Even for you, for your kids, you know, an emergency, your kid is swallowing something and it got stuck or you know, everything around you needs your full potential energy. So yeah, definitely everybody work on their own pace and just make sure that you work on things that are going to help you and stay safe because it's dangerous. - Lots of good use of this person. - Aside from dog, dog. - I saw a video the other day of this woman. Oh my gosh, forget where she was. Maybe in like Pakistan or something like that. And she was in her house and three men were barging into her house and she's in like full burqa, pushing this door as three men are trying to get in and she had enough strength to keep that door closed, hold it closed, move her couch in front of that door with her home alone with her children. That's the kind of strength you need. You just never know. And we live in a very comfortable society where like generally you're probably going to have a pretty safe life outside of like the, the few incidents that do happen, but like you just never know when something crazy is going to happen and do you want to be in the position of not being healthy enough to deal with it? And I often hear like, you know, there's these call-in shows like the Dave Ramsey style shows or whatever where guys call in and they're asking for advice or women call in and a lot of people who are in couples are calling and saying like, how do I tell my husband that he's gotten a little bit too big or how do I have this conversation with my wife about physical fitness? And I think appealing to like the emotional sensibility is like wanting to be fit enough for your family is probably one of the best ways to have that conversation. I can't think of anything more impactful for a woman or a man to hear then. Don't you want to be in the physical, don't you want to have the physical capacity to be able to take care of your family if the situation ever, ever calls for it? - Has anyone ever been in a situation where they've had to defend themselves? - I can talk about it because it doesn't hurt anymore, but when I was young, I did get molested. And it's fine, it's fine, I'm over it. I know it wasn't my fault. See, I work with my brain a lot. So for me, I was laying down and it was more of a like situation where I couldn't move because of what everything that was happening around me. And my thoughts were just like, I need to find a way to survive. I need to find a way to push this person from me. And I was 13. So it was like, you know what? Pray, pray, pray, pray, pray. 'Cause there was a cousin sleeping next to me and I was like, please have her move, please have her move so I can move. And she did. And as soon as I, and she, that she moved, I found a way to just push him. Like I found a courage to push him off. It came from, I don't know where, but it came. And whatever happened after that. So it is a situation where as women, we are subject to not just men but to a lot of people and where we need to find a way to protect ourselves and not just us as we're growing older. Like we should be showing our children how to, and who not to trust. Instead of judging them, instead of expecting from them, you should be teaching them to find their way and what works for them to find a courage to save themselves from whatever is gonna be a struggle for them in the future. - Yeah. Thank you for sharing that story. - Yeah, thank you. - I have abused my body. It's will the agree or step forward. I've abused my body. When I was like, I don't know, like 13 or 14. You're like, I'm getting, I'm getting pudgy. I'm not gonna eat anything. But at that time, when I was like 13 or 14, I didn't have the mental willpower to not eat. You know, people with anorexia, you guys are some strong soldiers out there because how is that you're not eating for a day? I would get, I would go to school. I eat breakfast at home, go to school, not eat lunch and then I'll slam dinner at home. There is no way I was getting food the day without, without eating calorie deficit, who it could not have been me at that time. And then I view it like in my adulthood, if I've ever abused my body in adulthood, it's been from lack of activity. And I think that is abuse to the body and just not sitting in bed and bed rotting, which is like a super trendy thing to do these days and it's cheered on a lot. Just not putting my body in the best position to like give myself healthy thoughts. If you're not exercising and moving around, your body is going to be screaming at you. Like, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, you're depressed. You want to kill yourself, you want this, you want that. So, yeah, I've definitely abused my body in that sense. I'm just like going super long periods of time being sedentary. Yeah, so there's that. But I did not have the willpower for interaction, you guys. Explain for me. I've always suffered with anxiety and depression since I was young, having grown up in the best areas. I use self-harm in different ways. I suffered with like purging and everything and actually physically cutting myself. Sometimes I even tend to burn myself. When I look into me, I'm just like, what is wrong with you? And I was 13, 12, and around this time. I do not like the way I look. I'm not happy right now. And the only thing I have control of, 'cause I don't have money, I can control what I can do to myself. And it wasn't until I got older and I started studying mental health, I started studying different ways you can take care of yourself with the resources I had. I was like, oh my gosh. I'm not the best at my mind right now. And there's other opportunities I can control those bad thoughts to let them out. - What were some of the tools that were most helpful to you? - Meditation really was a big thing for me. I loved meditating. Whenever I had those, I call it like noise, like those just thoughts in my head, like just talking, talking, talking, talking. I'm like, close your eyes, inhale, exhale, and just breathe. Just find your center and calm yourself. That's really helped me a lot. - Addiction is the disease that tells your brain that the problem is the solution. My biggest addiction was food. And you get a serotonin kick, everybody has a vice because that's something cheap and fast. At some point, it's not, you're not a victim anymore. Like you're actually doing it to yourself. This lifestyle of this and up and down and how I even abused myself, how I used to talk to myself and you're not good enough, you're not pretty enough, you're not thin enough. You're never enough until I changed the way I spoke to myself to be a change changes ever happened and maintained. - I've used my body a lot by being an emotional eater. Like I'm a very emotional person. Actually, I just found out last year that I have BPD. Ever since I was a teenager, I have struggled heavily with depression and suicidal thoughts, like all the time. - Yeah, I have abused my body over the years and I'm trying to love myself more, take better care of yourself. - Do it, don't try, just do it. - Well, you can tell it can be hard. - Make it easy, make it easy, make it easy to speak to yourself in a kind way. I just got upset because you just... You don't wanna be on this, you're a gift. How dare you take it, that beautiful gift away? How dare you? - I would not do well with this energy, by the way. When people are like this and they're like so full, throw to like, you need to do this mobile, you're a gift and they're like being so emotional about where you're at with your own problems, I'm like, okay, chill, please, let's stop talking about it. I'm sorry I ever brought it up actually because I don't know how to deal with this energy. When somebody is like, I think I've said this before, I hate when somebody shares an emotional story and they're sharing it just pretty matter-of-factly, like this is what I'm going through and then the person who's hearing the story gets more emotional than they are. - You have some problems with emotional regulation. If you're getting more emotional than I am, telling my own story and it's a little, it really like makes me short-circuit in a way of like, okay, I'm just gonna shut up, let's talk about this. - I see that as a Christian, I've been involved in like ministry and stuff growing up and like I see this a lot in small group settings, I used to work with small groups and stuff and you have like kind of the archetype of the fixer person who like can't contain themselves when listening to someone else and has to like offer their, you know, unfettered opinion and prescription of what's wrong, what you're getting wrong and how you can rectify it. And it generally comes from a good place, but it's kind of just like, this isn't really the place or the time for this. So I don't doubt the sincerity most of the time, but it's also like, you know, let's just, you know, let's just chill, they're trying to open up, they're trying to relate, they're trying to share. This isn't really the time to like try to impose your prescription of how things should go and maybe take a moment after and like say, hey, what you said really resonated with me, here's how I relate to it. And here's, you know, my thoughts on that and maybe hopefully this encourages you, but it's just like a not the best moment kind of thing. - Right, it makes me like, now I'm gonna hate myself even harder. Why are you talking to me like that? Like, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew, ew. - You're not allowed to talk anymore, okay? You're here, you have to speak to yourself kindly. Be nice to yourself, your family members, how would they tell somebody else about speaking to you that way to you? And you do it to yourself, that's not okay. - I feel like we're no longer talking about my problems here. I feel like you're projecting onto me a little bit and maybe we need to move on through different subjects. - You can change it, make a choice. - Yeah, it's got... - You know, you, sometimes people do this. You know, I watch these like motivational speakers or whatever and I actually, I'm not gonna say who I'm actually thinking of when I'm saying this, but they are like telling you how to be better and like getting super emotional about it or it's like bringing them to cry, it was bringing them to tears or whatever. And their intent is to make you feel like, oh my gosh, they care about me so much, like this is such an emotional moment, they're investing so much energy into me right now, but really they're screaming at themselves. What, everything that she just said to that woman about like, think of your family, you need like, how dare you, you need to get up and you need to do this with your life, you're wasting your energy? She's just saying that to herself. It has nothing to do with what that girl just shared and it actually makes the situation more about you than it is about what that girl just shared because you're not regulated enough to talk about it like a normal human being. Yeah, she's talking to herself, I don't know what else to say about that. - But it's gotten a lot better over the years that I'm much kinder to myself and I wish I could like tell my younger self to like be kinder. - But you can tell her, tell her right now, you can tell that baby right now, she's good enough and she's meant to be here. - Thank you. - Yeah, fuck. (laughing) - Somebody guessed who I'm talking about in the live chat. - I just want to give you a hug 'cause I relate to your story so much. I was an emotional eater too, I still am an emotional eater, I'm working on it so much but like when I was getting bullied in middle school, like I was getting called fat and all these things and I was literally getting notes handed to me being saying that I was like a fat whale. It really messed me up and it made me attempt suicide a few times and I was 12 years old and it wasn't until after I attempted and my family found out 'cause now I don't think that way anymore, that's why I'm such a huge like advocate for mental health and just like love yourself. You have to love yourself and order to change things that you want to change. - Yeah, I know you haven't spoke. - Yeah, I'm so excited. - Kind of disagreeing. - Okay, disagreeers. - For the people who came in that disagreeers with this prompt, what are the, what have been the most valuable tools or resources in your life to not abuse your body? - I think of like the highest version of myself and I try to show up as her every single day. It's when I have dark thoughts or when things are hard, I'm like okay, the highest version of Alyssa, like she's a baddie, she's disciplined, you know, she loves herself and I kind of show up as her. - I 100% agree with that. I'm a very big believer in like, if you say things out loud and manifest them, then they will come true because eventually you do end up getting like that mentality switch, right? Like if you wake up and the first thing that you say to yourself, like in the mirror is like, I'm ugly, you know? That's what you're gonna go about your entire day belief. - I'm not in the spiritual woo woo, but I understand what she's saying from like a logical perspective. You can logic your way to what she's saying. If you wake up in the morning with a certain mentality and you open your mind to negative thoughts of, I'm super fat or I'm not willing to exercise or I feel depressed today or I feel anxious, that is you giving your mind the opportunity to go further down that path, to think about it more, to marinate on it more, to list out all the reasons why you feel that way, list out all the reasons why your day is gonna go bad. Whereas when you wake up, we can acknowledge we're feeling these things, but if you power through and say, but I'm going to do this, but I am a healthier version than what my, version of myself than what my mind is telling me right now, but I'm going to be happy today. You can manifest these things, but it's just you're making an active choice to shut down certain pathways and or acknowledge them and move on to others. So a lot of like spiritual guru people will say you can like manifest things by thinking about them. What you're doing is you're giving your brain the opportunity to make that a possibility. So if you're with a super depressed person who's constantly speaking ill of themselves or talking about how bad their day is gonna go, what they're doing is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy because it's the only option they're giving themselves as far as how their day is going to go. It's how they interpret everything. So they are manifesting negativity in their lives because they're being negative. - Evening, you know, but maybe like writing something down, like having it like on the mirror and stuff and starting every morning like smiling and with like positivity, then you'll carry that energy like through the entire day, the entire week, the entire month and eventually like your entire life. - If you have a network of people that if you're feeling any kind of emotion or going through anything, having that kind of community to help you figure out how you can go about this without doing some detrimental harm to yourself, I think it's really amazing. And again, a privilege that I was able to have that. If nothing else, I hope anyone watching this can really see and empathize and like, you can't just look at someone and be like, oh, they're this and that or they're lazy or they don't work hard enough. Like I think this conversation has just been so illuminating for me. And I hope it's illuminating for everybody. - For me also just adding to like what helped me get out of the depression that I had it was I sat down and I cried. I would cry in my room and acknowledge the things I needed to change, even though it was gonna cost me. And I have supporters like my family, my sisters, my biggest supporter. I love you with all my heart. And you really need to work on yourself. Make a better choice. Change your body if it's necessary, if you can. But be healthy because we're not getting any better. This world is just gonna get harder. So we need to be healthy and prepared for whatever we need to do, you know? So yeah, work out safely. And you know, everybody, we hope we are healthy for like the longest time 'cause man. - I definitely agree with like letting up. - I agree with most of what she said. When I think like our proclivity to like sometimes you need to cry might be a little bit too high in our current society. Like you don't always gotta cry. Sometimes it's powerful to like want to cry and not cry. And not always advocating for that. And don't call me some like, don't say I'm toxically masculine for saying that. I'm just saying like, it seems like nowadays we be crying a little bit too much. - You gotta love it too. - 'Cause I was an emotional eater. - I cried a lot. - I was such an emotional eater. Like I held all of my emotions in. And what I would do is I would eat instead of letting that emotion out and recognizing the emotion. And it wasn't until like I let out that cry. I reached out to the people. - Yeah, you reached out to the people that you trust in you. - So maybe they're talking in a more figurative sense of letting out the cry. Of just acknowledging the things that you're feeling totally. Don't like bottle up the things that you're feeling or like try to avoid them. - Feel the safest with. And I did that that I started to realize like, oh, I need to change this. It is unhealthy to go to the food instead of going to the people. You gotta go to your people. - I agree with that. The day after my mom passed, I just came back, literally dressed. Like I took a plane back to California to be with my family while she was in her coma. And that day I was just like, you know what? My mom's gone, I want to be gone. You know, and the only people, the person I really trust and love and care for and adore is my grandma. She is my rock. And I remember looking at her like, my home, my grandma, I'm done. This is it. And she told me, and this is the only thing that keeps me going til this day is the moment you're gone, I lost you, I lose your mom, I have no one. And reaching out to my dad and telling her like, "I'm ready, I'm ready to just end it." It made me realize like, if I keep hurting myself, I'm not just hurting myself, I'm hurting the people who love me the most. - May I? - Boss? - Sorry. This is a very emotional moment and I'm not gonna like try to stomp on the moment that she's saying, but that should not be the only thing that's keeping you on the earth. Something that's externalized to the way that your grandmother is going to deal with your passing. Because whether we like it or not, we don't always have what is external to us. We don't always have our grandmother, we don't always have the crush that we rely on, we don't always have this externalized reason for why we remain on the earth and we work each and every day. So it is a beautiful story and I do like that her grandmother said, you have so much value to me that I would just be gone if you were gone. But I hope she's finding more value in her life than just how others feel about her. - Making sure like, you know, when you're going through your hard spot, just know like, you're not alone in that. People around you who do truly love you and they want you to reach out to them and tell them like, what's going on with you. So I always recommend that. Yeah, I'm so sorry. (laughing) - When she said don't ever apologize. - And for especially as a woman, stop apologizing. - Don't apologize ever, especially as a woman. Stop apologizing. What a note to close out on that. - Thank you all so much for the vulnerability and for sharing your opinions and discussion. Thank you guys for watching Middle Ground, subscribe. - Watch more Middle Ground, listen to Radical Empathy. - Okay, guys, we finished it. No, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes, you know, we get some hits. We get some misses. There was hits in this episode. There's misses. But we analyzed it. We sat there, we spoke about it. Now we're gonna hear from you guys. Read your super chats. So you have to say. (laughing) - We made it through. - We made it through. - There was some radical empathy there at the end. - There was. - I think John really appreciated. - I was exercising some radical, radical empathy for these women. (laughing) - Okay, AutoCue69 was our first one today. And he says, that's a huge B word, but he bleeped himself out. I think that was in reference to when John opened up the thing by saying if you leave a hate comment, you're contributing to the problem and he's doing this sarcastically. - Oh, gosh, okay, yeah, I was an interesting way to open up. - It has a sarcastic joke, autocue. In which case, I kind of think it's funny. So, well done. - Thank you. - If that wasn't what you're doing here, just being mean, that wasn't nice. - He is not welcome here. You're part of the problem. - I'm hearing my own voice back to me. I don't know if that's something else playing or I'll just power through. - There we go, there we go, that's awesome. - Lisa Ketter says, thank you for opening my eyes and pulling me away from crazy leftist ideology. I have been binging all of your videos for months. Love from Estonia. - Oh, that's so cool from Estonia. That's crazy and you've been visiting the videos for months. I'm glad you found us and I'm glad that what we're saying is resonating with you. That is awesome. - That's wild. I just read, I was reading a book where it's, I've read my first novel, okay? It was by Robert Ludlam who wrote the Jason Bourne series but there was a scene that happened in Estonia. And anyways, I had a layover in Latvia once that was right next door but that's in part of the world that you don't think about much but, you know, it's-- - No, that's true. Sorry, it's so yeah. - I'm fascinated by it. - I'm sorry that we're not thinking of you as much. - Yeah, but we're delighted to hear from you. - We are. - So thank you. Lisa, Alexandra Isabela says, hey guys, have you seen Candice's series on "Cautilus Family History?" It's so sketchy. - I have been watching it here and there. I haven't seen all of that. I see no maybe like one episode but I'm waiting until we've come to a more conclusive end. - She's just asking questions. She's just asking questions. - She did more than that at this point. She's found some interesting stuff. - Yeah, yeah, I'm curious to see where she lands. - Yeah, C-Y-N says, you can make time to cook on a budget. I have a six-year-old single mom work full-time, go to the gym at 6 a.m., cook for the entire week and get weekly groceries for under $50. We make time for what we prioritize. - Yeah, it's just like people don't wanna do hard things anymore. And I say that as somebody who like in my personal life will often identify myself as being lazy. And I know that I oftentimes do not want to put myself in the position of doing hard things. It's just what other people we're all, we all share that affliction sometimes. It comes and it goes. So I see it. I clock it. - Yeah, I think it's time to revisit Cam Haines and run up another mountain and do a run shoot lift. - That was so brutal. That was the most brutal day. - Oh my gosh. - But I mean, listen to a jocko or David Goggins or Cam Haines or even Joe Rogan. They got, I mean, I think we all need, especially in our cushy, like modern lifestyles to just listen to some people say, quit being a little biatch and go do hard things because it's good for you, you know? - Definitely. - Storm CW says, "I'll take this stream as my sign "from the universe to not skip the workout "I had planned to do today just because it's past 9 p.m. "and I just got home." - Yeah. Love that for you. Yeah, even if it's just a little workout at your house, you know, just do what you're gonna do. I'm gonna go run with my dogs after this and tire them out and two little puppies that have so much energy as you can hear during the stream. - The howling. - Yes, the howling. - I did go this morning, but confession yesterday, I was supposed to go to the gym and I was on my way out the door. I got, you know, got dressed, got ready to go. And I grabbed my headphones and I noticed they were dead, and I've done it before. I posted on Instagram once, I got a ton of replies, y'all thought it was funny, but I raw-dogged the gym, I went with no headphones, no podcasts, no music, no nothing, 'cause I had forgotten. Actually, my wife's were dead, so I let her use mine and then I just raw-dogged it. - Wow. - It was an experience, but I didn't wanna do it again, so I stayed home from the gym yesterday, but I didn't go today to make up for it, so well done, storm, to get your workout in. I saw a bunch of those comments in the lab chat too, people were like, "I need to get you." - Go get it, go get it. - Timothy W says, "This is one of the things "that really sealed my vote to Trump, "make America healthy again. "The chronic illness epidemic is absolutely insane here." - Yeah, it's bad, it's like everywhere, it's in our food, it's in our social media, it's in just like our lifestyle, everything is leading to illness. - Yes, and big pharma is there to give us all the medicines that we need to stay of paying them for entire lives instead of taking responsibility for our health. Kirsten Irwin says, "My husband and I are welcoming "our baby girl at the end of January. "I know I'm gaining weight with her, "but I'm still going for walks and bike rides "while the weather is good to help with aches." - Hey, you got this, love that for you. Yeah, I'm like, I always think about that all the time, the pregnancy and stuff, and how like you, you can like maintain your level of fitness throughout pregnancy, and I'm like crossing my fingers that I'm capable of doing that once that time period comes in my life, 'cause I see some bad-ass pregnant women. I see like them out there in the gym, they're squatting 200 pounds or whatever. - So they influence us, though, I'm like, is that healthy, like some of the stuff y'all are doing? - Apparently they say whatever level of fitness you had prior to pregnancy can be maintained all throughout, no matter what it is that you're doing, obviously unless you're like punching yourself in the stomach while like doing crunches or something, weird like that. - I'm 2% body fat, still, like I think you might need some of that. - I see some women doing some crazy things, I mean kudos to them, that's crazy. - Yeah, congrats on the baby girl, Kirsten. Minnesota Nice says, "Hey, hey and Tay, "I used to be 300 pounds, I'm 238 right now, "after two years, you can do it, "put the triple cheeseburger down, "you're the only person who can fix your own problem, "eat a salad, just do it." - Yo, congratulations on that. It's a love to have you check in on your fitness journey here on the show, and yeah, we're proud of you, that's awesome. - It's got that Nike mentality, just do it. - Yup. - Rachel Briggs says, "I have insulin-based PCOS, "I squat while cooking, use my baby as a weight, et cetera, "just do something every day, "love y'all focus on health, not weight." - See, that's the damn truth, a lot of people, you know, like because we're so empathetic, and we wanna like be able to, you know, walk on eggshells around people, a lot of people use their medical afflictions as an excuse, and more often than not, it's not an excuse. But that's just, that's just how it is. Of course, there are exceptions, don't get me wrong. Every time we do an episode like this, people are like, "Well, my friend got both of her arms "and both of her legs cut off "and she can't do anything and it helps." Like, it's like, okay, obviously I'm not talking about your friend, like, there are exceptions. - Oh, indeed, indeed, and there's also the like, you know, financial hardship or whatever, but like you're saying, you're using your baby as a weight and squatting when you cook, and like the time issue too. People are like, "Oh, I don't have time." Squatting while you cook while you take care of a baby, monies, you know, you could make that money excuse, you could make the time excuse, but you can make the PCOS excuse, but I love that you're not making excuses. And yeah, in today's day and age, you got most, almost everyone has a smartphone, you can get on YouTube, there's like yoga stuff that you can do that's body weight, there's tons of body weight exercises, tons of fitness influencers who can give you a workout that doesn't require access to a gym. So I don't buy all this, like, oh, well, we don't have access, it's not equitable, but a few bucks, like don't take that much. - Here's actually an even harder truth. One of the huge indicators of your child's health and wellbeing through the extent of their life is how active their mother was when they were a child. So if you are like having children and you're showing them no activity, like you're not doing anything, that is going to be how they lead their lives because you are their number one touch point for every single choice they make in life. So like a lot of moms will say, well, because I'm a mom, I can't do any physical activity or whatever. And it's like, okay, how, what are like some small ways we can start implementing that like with your kids? I think like holding your baby and taking the squad or doing a lunge or walking around the house is a huge thing. And that sign of activity to your child is a huge indicator of how healthy they are going to be and how active they will be. So that's like something I feel like taking it outside of yourself and saying, how do my actions impact another person, especially somebody who's 100% reliant on you, that can really be like the fire that gets lit that makes change happen. - Yeah. - Nick Demas, 1984 says, "Good evening. How can all these people state so many incorrect things about health and weight as scientific facts? Unbelievable. Cheers to both of you. - Because it's your truth, my truth, history, their truth and zer's truth now. Like we can all just say whatever we want and say this back. She literally tried to give an alternative definition of obesity, of medical obesity and say that that is her definition, which is wild. Wild. - Yeah. This subjective relativism, such a mind virus, man. - Mm hmm. - E.W.B. says, "Careful not to fall for the common rhetoric. Exercise is important for general health. For fat loss diet is what matters. You burn the vast majority of calories from bodily processes, not exercise." - Yes, absolutely. Like diet is going to be one. I think like you solve your diet. You solve so many issues that are taking place in your life and in your body and all these different things. And then exercise is just to support those like healthy habits that you've built with diet and to make sure like your body can sustain itself. Like for women in particular with our estrogen cycles and all these things, our bones are constantly at risk especially as we age for like osteoporosis and things like that. So like as that woman said, like lifting your baby and doing squats, huge thing for your bone density over time and you have to build those habits really early. I see a lot of people who are in the chat just saying like, walk, walk, walk. Doctors all the time will tell you, I saw a video the other day of a doctor saying like, "If walking could be made into a pill, "it would be the most effective drug "that Bill Big Pharma has ever created." And like for the most part, everybody can walk. Obviously there are exceptions, not everybody can walk but for the most part, we can all start walking at any given moment. That doesn't require a gym membership, it doesn't require money, it doesn't require virtually anything. - Yeah, just on the diet thing. Like I think a healthy exercise for anyone, I mean exercise in the application sense of the word is to just download my fitness pal or an app that lets you track your food. Don't even worry about how much you're eating but just track what you're eating. Just so that you can see over the course of a week, okay, this is what I'm eating. And by the way, that'll start to make you help make healthier choices regardless just by the fact of having to insert it but you can get a sense of, okay, here's what I'm actually eating and then you can figure out based on your height, weight, age, gender, et cetera, what your basal metabolic rate is and how many calories you basically need to sustain yourself. And then you can see is my habits, you know, am I overeating on a regular basis or under eating on a regular basis? So just knowing that to me is so empowering because now when you're going through your day or going through your week and you're saying, well, can I eat this? Can I eat that? What should I have for breakfast? What should I have for lunch? How many calories have I had today? You just, you have so much better of a sense of what choice is to make with regard to your intake. And like we said, that's like 80% of the battle with your actual weight at the end of the day. And I just think that's a really useful exercise. So I highly recommend which I don't track calories anymore, but just doing it once at what's on point in your life. Now you're, you'll remember, you know, and yeah, it'll be up there. Minnesota Nice says after losing the weight, gaining a lot of muscle, fixing my teeth and getting game, it has literally changed my life like a night and day shift, do it. - Yeah, it's crazy. And it's like what's interesting about it, if you're talking about like attractiveness 'cause it seems like you're talking about changing your physique and changing your look in a lot of ways, physical fitness is something that everybody has access to, but you're living in a world that is so like overrun with sickness and all this different stuff that we're dealing with that the majority of people are not physically fit. So just by putting in some work with diet and fitness, you're putting yourself in a whole different category as a human being based on everybody else. Like she's saying the average, you know, female size in the US is the size 16. Just by, you know, with some physical fitness and diet, you can elevate your status so much. And whether you like it or not, it changes the way you're treated. It changes what doors are open for you. It changes who's attracted to you. It changes what you're attracted to, everything shifts. And it's something that virtually everybody has access to but so many are choosing not to do. - A Kemi Sen just sends a super chat, no message. Thank you. A Kemi Anisha says, "I think choice and control are getting oversimplified in these conversations. Most people underestimate mental health in relation to it. No coincidence that obesity and depression are both big issues." - 100% and if they're like, "Oh, I'm depressed. I can't get out of bed." She's like, "Getting out of bed is step one to working yourself out of that depression." It really is. So, I mean, we can use the depression as an excuse or, you know, we can start making moves. - Coach Kent says, "A man talking about a woman's weight is the equivalent of stepping on a landmine." - Well, just tough, man. - It shouldn't be that way. It shouldn't be that way. I have conversations with my boyfriend and he's like very, he's very blunt about it. I'm very blunt about it with him. I'm like, "Fat, mm-mm, it's not gonna work for me." Like, "If I'm getting fat, you tell me I'm getting fat. If you're getting fat, I'll tell you he's getting fat." He doesn't have like the body type that really gives way to that. I think his metabolism is just like, I don't know, absolutely insane, but like, just tell me, I want to know if I'm fat. I don't want to be like that type of woman where like, if you try to broach the subject of weight, I get like defensive and can't have a conversation about it. Meanwhile, I'm just like getting fatter and fatter by the day. Like, please tell me I'm getting fat. Let me know. And my best friend, too, like, Risa would straight up tell me I'm getting fat if I looked like I was getting fat. - There you go. Surround yourself with, that's a friend test, you know? If someone's really worth their salt as a friend, I'll tell you. - Yes. Be honest. (laughs) - Chicken pork adobo says, "Adele and Nico Avocado can lose their porky figure. I bet these, oh, I guess they forgot it. If, if Adele and Nico Avocado can lose their porky figure, I bet these chicks can. They just have too many reasons not to do it. Happy thirst day, Amala and 10. - Just about everybody can, just about everybody can. And you can like, try to do like a thought experiment of somebody who just like, absolutely just can't lose weight. And I'm sure you can come up with something. But most people who you mate who are making excuses as to why they can't lose weight can absolutely lose weight. Like, there's one girl, and I think it's the same girl who's on this Jubilee episode. But she said like, when I was like 14, I was eating nothing but like grapes and celery every day, and I wasn't losing any weight. And I'm like, first of all, you're lying. There's no way. I could fill this desk up with grapes and celery and eat it all day long. I would be losing weight. There's just no, what you're telling me is incongruent with reality. So so often, like people are just making excuses that are not running in tandem with objective truth. So I'm sorry. For most people, you can. Yeah. And also, that's probably just not an effective strategy for trying to lose weight. Right, of course. I mean, physiologically speaking, or you know, in terms of the physics of it, yes. But in terms of doing something that's a sustainable lifestyle change, maybe we're going to do that. What she was doing was probably waking up in the morning, having a handful of grapes and celery, thinking that that's a sufficient breakfast. And then when her mind is freaking out on her, saying that you need more sustenance, she would go to McDonald's or, yeah, or just grab a bag of chips or whatever. And then you don't lose weight because you're not setting yourself up for success. But then the story becomes, I ate nothing but grapes and celery, and I didn't lose any weight. Which story is what it is. And that's the story that you end up telling yourself because that forms the basis of your beliefs, and then that's how you get stuck. - C2 to J says fit men versus fat women, and vice versa debate, next up. - Fit men versus fat women would be so brutal. - That would be so brutal. - So brutal, so brutal. - I don't think y'all can handle that. - I would love to see, like I wonder how fit women would talk to fat men. They'd probably be just too nice, let's be honest. We're not going to get any work done here, too nice. But like fit men talking to fat women might, might, I don't know. It's just like unstoppable force and movable object kind of thing. I just don't know. It's not going to achieve communication and healthy. - Right, it's tough, it's tough. - But it would be fun to watch. Well, maybe it could be miserable to watch some of these enjoyable objects. - We'll see. Jubilee get on it. We know you'll have it. - We'd be here for it. We'd have the popcorn ready. No butter, just kidding. - No butter. - Britney M says that you should look at the video where abortion survivors share their stories. It's crazy good and change my mind on pro choice. I'm related by now. - I'll have to check that out. I'd be interested to see. And she adds an honest conversation between abortion survivors and providers is the title of the video for those of you interested. Definitely recommend it. - It was in my recommended like this weekend, but I didn't watch it. - Celtic blacksmiths says, "Go figure. "This is the topic on the day. "I decide to treat myself with Wendy's. "The universe is shaming me." By the way, Amala, where you laptop twinsies. - Hey, appreciate that. Love that laptop twinsies. You shouldn't feel shame over that, you know? Like, I promise you, there are people, there are like TikTok accounts that you can follow that's just like how much of a food you would have to eat to like gain a pound of fat on your body or whatever. And when you see how much it is and compare that to having a meal at Wendy's or whatever, it's literally nothing. Of course, we can always be making healthier choices. But if we beat ourselves over the head every time we go through a fast food drive through, then we're probably not doing much good for ourselves. So I think the Wendy's meal is fine. As long as you're not having three today, I think you're good. - Yeah, moderation is key. I'll confess I had pop tarts for breakfast this morning, but-- - Hell yeah, strawberry, cinnamon sugar, what'd you have? - No, no, no, I'd like to get, I got s'mores and I'll get the cookies and creams with some of them more like chocolate. - That was my go to as a kid as them s'mores ones. Oh my gosh. - So good. I know they're processing bad, but you know what? That is my typical breakfast. If I work out in the morning, I'll come home and have a protein shake, like just water and whey protein and then a pop tart with some milk and some black coffee. And that's, and I don't feel bad about it 'cause I just kick butt in the gym. I need to replenish the glycogen of my muscles and get that, you know, simple carbohydrates back in my body. But on days when I don't work out, it's usually Greek yogurt, a little bit of peanut butter or something. So it's all about the moderation, right? - It is. - And earning it. Brittany M says on its conversation between abortion survivors and providers, oh, I'm sorry, I just read that one. Joy says, okay, so I am definitely not skipping my workout today, I saw a bunch of those guys today. (laughing) - It's too funny, I guess it was a reminder. - Yeah, take this to the gym and listen while you work out and be motivating. Ruben says, I don't have time to, in quotes. Meanwhile, doom scrolls for three hours a day. You have the time, just not the priority, something I'm working on myself. Same here, I can go on, down a TikTok rabbit hole for like three hours, it's awful, awful, awful, awful, how like weak and doom scrolling get consumed in literal bullshit. So yeah, no, we have the time. The average person has the time. - Do you get that screen time notification every week from your phone? I get it on some days, I don't know if I do it automatically, but yeah, sometimes I'm like, oh, how, how is it five hours a day or something like that? - Mine is horrific, because first of all, what we do for work, we're constantly on social media, and we're like looking at things and sending each other stuff or whatever. TikTok doom scrolling, and also like, I'll put on like a YouTube video essay before I go to bed and just crash out and fall asleep. So my screen time is like, just absolutely nuts. - Yeah, I fall asleep to podcast all the time, and then like one of my like brain calming past times is listening to a podcast while playing like mindless iPhone games, just 'cause I need something to direct my physical attention to, while I'm listening to something and paying attention to it. So I feel like I get it, I rack up a ton of time. - 100%. - Like, you know, bubble pop games and stupid stuff like that. But. - Technology health game. - Minnesota. Yeah, drop your weekly screen time in the chat there. - Yes, please. - Minnesota Nice says, I was about to say, just how dilulered women are. One hot Asian step forward for fit women are more attractive. Most women are able to get through life being this dilulered with no repercussions, quote, from my own gains. - It's like, I try to think about this. Like, a lot of people will interpret that as being like a misogynistic thing to say. I just think that men and women have different delusions. Men are like these like high risk sort of go for things that they shouldn't go for and end up swinging for the fences when maybe you need to adjust a little bit and maybe you need some female sensibility to sort of bring you down a peg, but then like women find themselves like so comfortable in the position that they end and they rather than wanting to like fight for higher status, just want to protect the space that they've been given and do so in the ways that we've watched in this video. So I think it's just like, there's delusion everywhere. It just takes on different forms. And it's just not misogynistic to say that we do these things differently. - Yes, we are all human. That's the great equalizer in whether male or female but that often manifests itself differently. - I'm so afraid to work. He says watching this live while running a 10K. I love you, Amalyn, Taylor, keep up the good work. And found time to super chat and type that in the middle of running a 10K sounds brutal. I'm not a runner, I'm not a strat star. Running is not fun for me. - Yeah, I feel like once or twice a year I get roped into some kind of running activity like last time was Cam Haines a couple of years ago. We did that vlog, that was the most brutal. That was the most brutal thing you've ever done in my life. - Oh, shout out to Cam, thank you for that. - But yeah, I'm not running, it's just tough for me. But that's why I gotta play my beach volleyball like it's my partner. Chicken Porcadova says in the Philippines, we have a joke, we call people with an ugly face and a beautiful body a shrimp because you eat the body and throw away the head. - Oh my gosh, that's funny, that's really creative. I've never heard that before. That's too funny. - We say butter face. - Yeah, butter face. - We say butter face. - Oh, like a lot of millennial thing, I don't know, Celtic Blacksmith says, as long as you're strong and capable, you're good. So you're saying there's a chance, my hand-kill body has more hope for love yet. - Well, I have a boyfriend, I'm on luck, okay? But I do think you have a chance out there. I think being in a capable fit body is major, major points 'cause not everybody is capable of that. Not everybody, well, everybody's capable of it but not everybody's doing it, I should say. - Amy Love says, "Hi, Amla, I'm working out watching you today." - Okay, wow, we need to do, I just watched the substance, that like horror movie, we need to do a workout shrimp. I'm like, "You've got it, guys, we're gonna work out "and talk about, I don't know, race. "We're gonna talk about common layers." - Was it workout in the substance? - Yeah, in the substance, the main characters are like these like workout, like not influencers but they have a workout show. That's probably anything else, but yeah. - Interesting, Aaron N says, "Men debate?" Yeah, we know we're fat but mire and chill. Women debate, "I'm not obese at 300 pounds, how dare you?" - Literally, yeah. Men are like, "Hey, I know I'm fat but here are the reasons "and I feel empathy for people who don't wanna find themselves "out of the situation or whatever." And I'm like cool with it, yeah, and women are just like, "We need to redefine what fatness is. "We need to redefine what it means to be morbidly obese. "No, meanwhile, when I have a heart attack of 50, "we'll just be squabbling over that definition, I guess." It's very true. - Yeah, one of my favorite quotes from today was, "I had to work so hard to unlearn the idea "that fitness is more beautiful." Maybe all that hard work you could have been doing in the gym and it would have saved you the mental and life struggles that you are now facing. - That's the tough truth. And this whole idea that like, "Oh, it's society, it's society, it's society." And you're socialized to believe these things. I think nowadays you're socialized to not believe objective realities that stem from biology and evolutionary psychology and things like that to socialize out of them. And that's why you have such mental distress because your beliefs are incongruent with reality. - Yeah, yeah. - I digress. Arena Gonzalez says, "Amelie, you speak the words, "I have trouble formulating, LOL. "Thanks for being so real and articulate." - Oh, that's so nice. Thank you so much. Yeah, I find myself, sometimes I'm thinking things and I'm like, I'm gonna start the sentence and hope that I can articulate what it is that I'm thinking right now and sometimes we don't-- - Sometimes I start a sentence and I have no idea where it's going, but yeah, I'm glad. I'm glad that I'm articulating things well enough. - Gabe Morgan says, "As a former fat, I gotta say, "it's a lot easier than people make it out to be. "At least as a man, down 80 pounds since March." - Yeah, and I know they say men have it a little easier than women do as far as shedding fat and their physiology gives away to that a little bit better than women do, but yeah, I think it can be kind of hard to build habits, but once you do have it locked in and you put in that really tough work at the outset, then things start giving back and it becomes easier because it becomes part of who you are. - Laurie says, "Long time listener, "first time catching a live stream. "Thank you both for doing what you do." - Thanks, Laurie, for catching a live stream for the first time. Appreciate ya. - Always great to hear from you all for the first time. - Mm-hmm. - Dad daily kid says Taylor is so handsome. - Taylor. - How time? I get a looks-based comment. - It is about time. Taylor's looks-massing. - Strapping, I'm glad. Arena Gonzalez, again, says one of the best ways to contribute positively to the betterment of our society is to better yourself as an individual. - 100%, it ups the standards for everybody. We shouldn't be asking to lower the standards and give entry to everybody. We should up the standards and help everybody get there. - Sasha O'Neill says, "Not me deciding to squat "while Taylor is making a point, "thinking it's not gonna take long. "Only to realize his point will make me "almost die on the floor." - Your point is always gonna die on the floor. Were you not ready for the squat yet? Maybe we went a little too far too soon. (laughs) - I don't know, I guess so. - Maybe we should start a bit of kindness. - No. - Maybe it was the stat about doing a minute or two of exercise three times a day will decrease your risk of death by 50%. That was pretty wild. Maybe that was saying I was too long-winded in a certain case, but anyways, sorry about that. Sasha, for almost killing you. (laughs) Ortony in flight says, "Got men versus fat with..." I think maybe a typo here. Fat men versus fat women is just the whatever podcast. Or "Got men versus fat women" is just the whatever podcast. Somebody to fit men versus fat women is just the whatever podcast. - Except the men on the whatever podcast are not that fit, let's be honest. - They made. - Whatever podcast clips that I watch right now, I'm like, it's like quatting two rocks debate on another. And it's just so disheartening to see. Sorry, guys. - I still haven't forgiven them for not getting good people on when you were there. - It was kind of boring, but so such juicy content. Rachel Duke says, "I'm proud of the fact that I am self-aware of my fitness level. I am in shape, not in shape, but I can still move when I need to." - Yeah, and that's like cool. People view it as like the admission that you are maybe not in like the best shape possible is like the worst thing you could possibly say about yourself. You can just say it and be like, that's what it is. And I'm gonna put in some work and hopefully get on the other end of it. - Peter Hong says, "People who said they don't have time should reveal their phone screen time." By the way, I love your content. My friends are liberal. You are a breath of fresh air. - Oh, I appreciate that. That's awesome. I'm glad that you're finding some, hopefully some semblance of friendship on this channel. Yeah, show your screen time. Please, let us see. 'Cause I know you're always in time. Just like me. - Kato Potato says, "You guys should react to the Butterface show next. Also, I'm not working out. I'm getting ready for work. Kolo out." - There you go, which I'm sure, maybe your work has some physical activity in it. I've never heard of the Butterface show. I'll have to look that up. It sounds distressing. - Sounds a little degenerate more than you know. It's just like some pop the balloons stuff. - Right. - Just like humiliating people that are facing them. I don't know, so it sounds like. Dalton says, "Need some motivation to not skip leg day today. Any words for those struggling with consistency? Thanks for all that you guys do." You, any advice? I think just showing up is half the battle. Literally just not, you don't have to be a person that's constantly pushing yourself to failure or whatever. Just be the person who does show up in the place to work out every day or whatever your schedule may be for working out, and that's half the battle. It's just getting there. And then once you put in after that, it's just like at least I got there and I did it. I love a leg day though. But that's women. Women love the leg day. Men hate it. (laughs) I mean, my leg day because of injuries has just become like rehab day. You know, like physical therapy exercises and stuff. Which is kind of nice. It's a little refreshing, but yeah, chest day is the most fun for sure. (laughs) I don't know. I think that was actually our last one today, so thank you Dalton. - Oh, hey guys. - And we're all caught up. - Yeah, thank you guys so much for watching today's episode. We did fit versus fat, jubilee debate, and this time it was the women duking it out. It was interesting, not as intense as the men, but that is to be expected because we engaged with our delusions a little bit too much on the female side. Guys, drop your thoughts in the comments down below. Let us know how you feel about the things we discussed today. As always, if you disagree with anything I said during this show, you can duke it out in the comments down below, but do so respectfully. We encourage healthy debate on this channel. If you like this live, like, subscribe, click the notification bell to be notified every single time we're live this Monday, Wednesday, Friday. One PM Pacific, three PM Central, four PM Eastern, eight PM Universal Time, plus we post videos for you guys every single day. Tomorrow's video is about, what is tomorrow's video about Taylor, I already forgot. I already forgot what tomorrow's video is about. Two seconds, two seconds, oh, Josh Sider. Oh, it's about Josh Sider. If you don't recognize the name, you'll probably recognize him tomorrow. We have an update on his story and the update is to be expected. So keep an eye out and hopefully I provide some interesting analysis on his personality characteristics, even though he's trying to provide analysis on others. Guys, thank you so much for watching the show today and I will see you tomorrow. Bye guys. [ Silence ]
I’ve been ready for a break from politics and Jubilee has DELIVERED in the form of this intense debate between fit women against fat women on body positivity, whether being fat is a choice, and more. Let’s watch!
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