Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

Giants-Eagles primer: Saquon Barkley returns, Andrew Thomas done, Daniel Jones' stakes

Broadcast on:: 17 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard previews Saquon Barkley's return to MetLife Stadium for a Week 7 Giants-Eagles NFC East clash @Bleav and discusses Andrew Thomas' season-ending surgery and how Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll plan to move on. Pat also dives into the Daniel Jones situation, the big Davante Adams and Amari Cooper trades for the Jets and Bills, respectively, and answers all fan questions and comments to provide a full picture of the Giants' roster and outlook. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.

every team, every topic everywhere. This is believe. All right, welcome everybody to another episode of talking ball live with Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News here on the Believe Network on Wednesday October 16th came out of the Giants locker room today at a two of the Giants, two MetLife Stadium, SACWAN coming back with the Philadelphia Eagles to MetLife Stadium to face a home crowd, his former home crowd, his former team, friends of his still Dexter Lawrence, Daniel Jones, and a lot at stake for both teams. The Philadelphia Eagles are reeling. It's not just the Giants who are under pressure here. The Eagles and head coach Nick Siriani even coming out of the bye we can getting a win against the Cleveland Browns up against it to show progress up against it to show that jail and hurts Nick Siriani can make it happen on the offensive side of the ball, that their perceived lack of chemistry is not going to continue to be detrimental that the Philadelphia Eagles defense is going to start tackling better and that are going to look like a team that Jeffrey Lori and Howie Roseman believed it was when they went into this season, despite Jason Kelsey's retirement, despite Fletcher Cox's retirement. The Eagles as an organization still believing that the investment in SACWAN Barkley to add to AJ Brown and Devonta Smith and Jalen Hertz envisioning getting back to the Super Bowl just short form of a couple years ago. That this was going to be a high octane explosive offense, but the fact of the matter is is that no one other than the Washington commanders has played impressive consistent football. The Eagles are one of those teams, one of those culprits, and Barkley has a lot to prove, regardless of what he says or how much he's downplaying this return. He has a lot to prove about what he's worth considering the Giants did not offer him the same kind of money the Philadelphia Eagles did and let him walk out the door. Now co-owner John Mara, of course, is on the record on camera on HBO hard knocks, telling his general manager Joe Shane that he'll have trouble sleeping at night if Barkley ends up signing with the Philadelphia Eagles in free agency this past spring. That's exactly what happened. And Barkley's enormous performance in the first week in Brazil against the Green Bay Packers certainly set an interesting tone for how this season was going to begin in the pressure that Joe Shane and Brian Dable were going to face out of the gate. Now, as the Eagles have had their own problems, the Giants have been navigating the waters as well. The Giants stand at two and four, they have wins right now under their belt, both on the road against the Cleveland Browns and the Seattle Seahawks, but 0 and 3 at home, winless in MetLife Stadium, struggling even to get into the end zone. The most frightening part now is that they actually went to and for in those first six games with a relatively healthy team. Malik neighbors missed two games, but a lot of the Giants primary contributors outside of that remained healthy now. That is not the case, starting franchise left tackle Andrew Thomas, as I'm sure you know by now, out for the season after undergoing surgery on Wednesday morning on his foot for a list Frank injury, devastating news for the left tackle for the offense, and for the Giants. Dexter Lawrence Brian burns will play in this game but dealing with hip and groin injuries respectfully, and more and more names, including Darius slate and Juan Dale Robinson being limited showing up on the injury report. The Giants up against it Daniel Jones under pressure, the Giants really in desperation mode. And that puts two NFC East teams on the field at one o'clock this Sunday in week seven, both in desperation to reignite some momentum to regain some confidence to get right. This is going to be a get right game for one of these teams which one is it going to be. But outside of the short term, the long term consequences are much greater. This is whether the Giants would want it to be or not, whether the Eagles would want it to be or not. This is a statement game and this is a judgment day for the sequan Barkley decision for Joe Shane and Brian Dable for John Mara, for Jeffrey Lori and Howie Roseman on the other side. There is more to both of these team seasons than just this one game. But the fact of the matter is, that's sequan Barkley decision going with Malik neighbors as your number one option, not bringing sequan back to augment the offense with in tandem with neighbors to help Daniel Jones, replacing him instead with a Tyrone Tracy Jr. A rookie who has shown some promise in the last couple weeks fifth rounder out of Purdue via Iowa. And the replenishment of the offensive line by Joe Shane in free agency and yet the ignoring of the tackle position in the off season no swing tackle added no offensive lineman signed in the NFL draft. Now they sit here with Andrew Thomas done for the year with the same names prepared to but needed to step up and resolve the issues but we know the stats we know the numbers we know what happened last year. We know that the Giants internally walked around blaming a lot of last season on Andrew Thomas's injury in week one well he's down again, he's out again, he's not coming back. And the pressure is on it's on the Giants it's on the Eagles, it's on sequan Barkley, it's on Joe Shane, it's on all of the principles in this game from Daniel Jones to jail and hurts on down. The winner of this game is going to breed a huge sigh of relief. The loser of this game is going to be in turmoil, it could be Nick Siriani and the Eagles. It could be Brian Dable, Joe Shane, and the Giants. And when you think about what the Giants face here, as I prepare to get to our questions here on talking about live I see the questions rolling in. Thank you so much. All the loyal viewers and listeners and followers even during these exciting baseball playoffs you guys checking in and talking Giants and talking NFL with me I really appreciate it. As Jacob says kicking us off smash that like and sub button for the best reporter in the business. Thank you so much Jacob for always being here and for saying that. Yes, the Giants ramifications here. Yes, a loss would put them at two and five, and there would still be 10 games to play in this season. But think about first of all, if you lose to the Eagles here as the Giants with Barkley doing a lot of the damage to you after letting him go to your rival. I had thing number one, number two, a negative development would be that would put the Giants this season at 0 and 3 in the division after losing close games but losing nevertheless to the Washington commanders and to the Dallas Cowboys already. So a loss to the Eagles would put you 0 and 3 at division. It would put you 0 and 4 at home. And entering this game, the Giants now stand with a record under Joe Shane and Brian Dable of 1 9 and 0 in their meetings with the Dallas Cowboys and the Philadelphia Eagles since that tandem took over at the start of the 2022 season the year they went to the playoffs. If you fall to 110 and 0 against the Cowboys and Eagles, 0 and 4 at home, 0 and 3 in the division and losing to Saquon head to head, not to mention they've already been out, scored by the Eagles 151 to 97 in this rivalry so far. In their five meetings the last two years, all those numbers all those stats, they should explain the stakes that the Giants are facing. They should adequately explain the stakes and the consequences that could come from the Giants losing this game and losing this game not just to the Philadelphia Eagles, but most importantly, to Saquon Barkley. And that leaves me sitting here thanking all of you for being here. We're going to get into more than just the Giants I want to talk a little Devonta Adams I want to talk a little. I want to talk about the Cooper whatever NFL questions you have as well. I want to dive into that too here on Wednesday, October 16 as the NFL season is in full gear. If you already saw it great if not please check out at some point. Our latest episode of first down with Benny Fowler. It is our weekly recap with the Super Bowl champion former NFL wide receiver of the entire league. Benny puts us ahead of the curve on a lot of things. But our conversation about the Detroit Lions this week was especially poignant. Benny said even before the Aidan Hutchinson injury he thought the Lions needed to add a pass rusher. So he not only do they absolutely need to envision or do they need to add one but you could see them in the market even for two. And what do you know we talked about Hassan Redick as one of the many names to keep an eye on and you already see days after we host that podcast. That name percolating and hovering around the Detroit Lions as a team that has checked in on Hassan Redick the former Philadelphia Eagle and the jet hold out who has switched agents to Drew Rosenhouse. Of course we wouldn't be able to do this without our sponsors and we are sponsored here by my bookie. My bookie is celebrating their 10th year anniversary rolling out the red carpet for betters. They have risk free Thursday so check my social media here on Thursday October 17 for the latest risk free bet. And also for my Pat's picks every week. Now I'm sure you guys are aware of this by now I'm sure you made some money off of it already but if you're not. I've got 10, three and one against the spread in week six. And my Pat's picks were two and one on my top three. 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All right, Jacob Petruzi says few questions to start us off is Malik neighbors trending in the right direction. He was today on Wednesday he was in a red non contact jersey at practice and limited in practice. So the step would be that he goes through that version of practice and if his body and his, and his, and his head. And he goes through that and comes out of that on the other end feeling good on Thursday and doesn't have any symptoms that are triggered by that activity and that exertion. Then he would progress in the protocol and ramp up his participation in practice and eventually be able to show that he can fully participate in a practice in order to get cleared by an independent neurologist and then play on Sunday. I would say as we sit here on Wednesday night, it's a possibility that neighbors will play on Sunday, but it is not a guarantee. So it is purely based on how he progresses, clearly based on listening to Brian Davell saying that neighbors is feeling better, and he's making progress, and he's optimistic. All of those are sending the arrows pointing in the right direction of neighbors possibly playing on Sunday, but it will depend on how he reacts and how his body reacts each day. That's where we stand. Jacob says, am I crazy to see us going three and one going into the by. I wouldn't call you crazy Jacob because this NFL season has certainly proven that if the NFL is anything right now it is unpredictable we already knew that but it feels like that gets reinforced every year. The Philadelphia Eagles are not the Philadelphia Eagles of yesteryear right they Jason Kelsey's gone Fletcher Cox is gone, George my lot is out for this game. You know a lot of criticism of the head coach there, you could make a strong argument for the fact that it almost felt like Nick Siriani was acting like he was coaching for his job last week against the Cleveland Browns. But even speculate that Nick Siriani and Brian Davell are both coaching for their jobs in a certain way in this game, based on the amount of pressure, there is on them in this specific season. So, I think there's an opportunity for the Eagles against the Giants but there's an opportunity for the Giants against the Eagles as well. I think that the Eagles are unbeatable here or that the Giants couldn't win this game. I do think that the Giants injuries with Andrew Thomas especially makes it very difficult for them I think as much as the Giants defense has made progress. I am not going to believe that the Giants could be capable of that type of three and one run going into the by that you just said, until they're often shows me something more. The Seattle game obviously was encouraging, but to have that kind of egg laid at home against Cincinnati. And to see the Giants grasping for answers coming out of that game almost like they didn't know where to turn. Very discouraging and I think for me, I think one in three in this stretch is more likely than three and one, but that you know, again, unpredictable league, you have the Eagles who are beatable, but who have some really high end talent. You have the Pittsburgh Steelers on a Monday night on the road now it looks like they're going to Russell Wilson then it's kind of an unknown there, but their defense is excellent so the Giants already can't score and then they're going on the road against the Steelers. After that, you have the Washington commanders who they lost Jonathan Allen on defense that's a big loss on the interior of the defensive line. You know, maybe that that game could turn into a more of a more of a shootout but again, high scoring offense, you know, the Giants were fortunate to keep them out of the end zone when they played last time and force held down to seven field goals. It's helped by a lot of a lot of penalties and fall starts by Washington's offense and it seems like they've cleaned up in the red zone. So I think that that's a dangerous scary game assuming Washington's healthy again we don't know how healthy Washington or the Giants will be at that point. But we know the Giants are taking some real big hits here. And then the Carolina Panthers in Germany, who the heck knows everyone should be beating the Panthers right now but it's been that kind of year for the Giants you don't know what you're getting week to week. They're playing away from it like stadium in that game will help them. Those Daniel Jones get benched at the by week. Jacob, to be honest with you, I think I've said this before I'll say it again. I think Daniel Jones is the best quarterback on the Giants roster. And I think that Brian, if Brian Dable benches Daniel Jones that late. Okay so right now they're two and four and they have four games before the by week. So presumably to bench Daniel at the by you're saying that they probably have only three wins by that point so they're three and seven at that point. So they're three and seven going into the by and benching Daniel Jones at that point. To me, the season's already cooked you're already. You're already a cooked goose as you know the Joe Shane Brian Dable year three. You know build goes. So I'm not sure if at that juncture it even truly makes sense I mean from an injury guarantee perspective, like avoiding the injury guarantee and getting him off the field later in the season when the season is already lost. Is that could be a rationale for it. But I keep coming back to to. That would be Brian Dable's last ditch effort if he were to bench Daniel Jones. He can't go back from that once he benches Daniel Jones. You know that's he's pulled that plug he's played that card and he can't play it again. So to me, if you think Daniel really is the thing holding them back. Then you're benching him before it gets out of hand. Right. So let's say they're low scoring in this game as well and they get blown out by the say Juan Barkley and the Eagles and Daniel plays really poorly and is a major reason they lose the game. You know, to me, that's the earlier juncture to pull the plug or make a change to try to, you know, it's really damned if you do damned if you don't though for Brian Dable in that sense because if you do that that early. Now the drew lock thing has to work or else. But if you stick with Daniel Jones and you ride it out, then you may look back at it one day and say, well, I knew I should have made a change but. You know, I was I was I was too too afraid of the consequences to do it or I knew ownership didn't want it or whatever it is so I personally don't think also this is my opinion. I don't think benching Daniel Jones is fixing or solving the Giants problems. I know that he's made some mistakes. I know there were some of his throws or decisions in the Cincinnati game were very costly. Of course he contributed in a big way to that loss, no doubt about it, but I think it's disingenuous to point at the Giants right now and say that with a good quarterback, everything's fixed. I don't agree with that. You know, we had conversations after the Cincinnati game about, you know, I think somebody said if you had Josh Allen to this team that the Giants would be cooking and it's like, well, you could add Josh Allen to any NFL team and they would be cooking. You know, that's not that's not what's happening here and it's not realistic. And that's a one man show in Buffalo, you know, they have their own problems, which we can get to in a little bit. Will, what's going on? How you doing? Will says is our quarterback room that bad that we continue to risk trotting Daniel Jones on the field risking injury and then hampering our cap situation next season. See, will I come, I come at this from so. First of all, to answer your first quote to answer your question. When we watch them for weeks on end, months on end, spring, OTAs, training camp, you know, preseason games, early regular season. Daniel Jones is the best playmaker and the most skilled player of the three quarterbacks in the Giants quarterback group. He just is. Drew Lock does throw a pretty deep ball. He can operate smoothly at times. He does take more chances. He's riskier though. So he tends to throw some interceptions in that regard. You know, they're all tough players. Obviously, DeVito can run. Doesn't see the field as well as the other two, but I think. Will that first of all, Daniel Jones is the best quarterback of that group. Secondly, you asked about why keep risking injury and hampering the cap situation. I think, you know, you're going to get a different answer to this depending on who you talk to now. So this is my opinion. I think that this general manager and coach need to win some games here. I think that there's pressure here this season. I've been operating on that since day one, on that idea, on that belief, on that information. And I don't think benching Daniel Jones just for the injury guarantee, even if it costs you wins is the way that they can go here. I think if you're benching him because you believe the guy you're putting him in for is going to. Because you're doing it to improve the team to win games now, because you need to win games. I would buy that as a strategy. I would not buy the strategy of let's just tank and get a high draft pick. This regime, in my opinion, cannot cannot do that. They cannot lose enough games to have the draft picks that you're thinking of and still feel confident about their jobs. Luanne says giants in Washington are better than Eagles. And I think you mean and Cowboys. The Giants defense gives you some belief their offense is not there yet. You needed to get there for sure. That's one reason you need neighbors back. The one silver lining with the Giants offense, obviously, is that neighbors and Tracy together with Tracy as your number one back now. Maybe you can reach another level offensively with that personnel. Now, of course, right when you get to that point, Andrew Thomas is done for the year. And that's going to be a problem, especially with how Daniel Jones or whatever quarterback is back back there is going to operate. So, I think the Andrew Thomas, what we saw last year, you know, I know you want to think that it will be better. But last year, if, you know, not to, not to scratch at old wounds. But during the stretch of eight games that Andrew Thomas was out to start the season, including the week one game against Dallas where he got hurt early in the game right or relatively early in the game. In those eight weeks last season, the Giants scored eight total touchdowns. Not only that, they scored four of them in the second half against Arizona. So they scored four touchdowns in the second half against Arizona in week two. In the other seven games without Andrew Thomas or with him in the one game of Dallas, they scored four touchdowns total in those seven games. They went two and six nos eight games and they averaged 11.8 points per game as a team, which included a defensive touchdown against the Miami Dolphins. So, that's what, that's what Brian Dabel's offense with Sequon Barkley last year instead of Malik neighbors did when Andrew Thomas was out. And if you remember, Daniel Jones last year without Andrew Thomas in the game, his process, his throwing process, the protection. It all speeds up, right, when he doesn't trust that protection and he starts taking bigger hits. I know everyone's focused on the injury guarantee, but what about just the ability to perform at a high level at the position because he doesn't trust that he's not going to get hit quickly. That's, that's a major concern. Danny Dudd says, as Mara finally seen enough of Daniel Jones, we all know he decides when a quarterback change is made. No indication of that yet, Danny. No indication of that yet. I think. If John Mara is honest with himself and with his team. Yes, he knows Daniel Jones needs to play better than he did against the Cincinnati Bengals. But I would think he watched that game the same way as I did and said, there were more problems on that field than Daniel Jones. I mean, you know, the final fourth down, where I think people wanted Daniel Jones to throw to Wondale Robinson and not Darius Layton. I was not sure exactly what had happened on his decision making there too. When I went back and watched the film, you see that BJ Hill gets a pressure up the middle past John Michael Schmitz and Daniel Jones gets rid of the ball once he sees that D lineman about to, you know, charge into his lap. And so there are details and and wrinkles of plays and, you know, events that occur that aren't always as obvious, but it's not just the QB. Now, I'm not sitting here saying, you know, Daniel Jones has played great. That's not what I'm saying, but I'm just saying that I do reject the notion that this is a Daniel Jones and only a Daniel Jones problem here with the Giants. I think that that's probably what some leaders of the Giants want you to think. But that is certainly not the reality of what is happening with their team and why they are losing these games there. It's more nuanced than the quarterback. Luanne says I predicted when the season started that the Eagles and Dallas would be on the bottom and Giants and Washington would be on top. And I was pretty much right. The Giants should be five and one. Luanne, you were right about Washington. We can't play that game, though, of they should be a certain thing, because the NFL, the NFL is such a tight league that a lot of these teams around the league. They can all point to two games they've played at least so far and said, man, if that had gone the other way, this would be way different. Like, for example, you know, the Jets could sit there and say, you know, we only lost to the bills and there were three and there were these penalties called and, you know, yeah, that interception. But if we just connect on this, like, we easily could have won that game and instead of being two and four, and the bills being four and two, we'd both be three and three. Yeah, but you're not. You did. You know what I mean? Like, that's, that's the issue with that. I mean, you're right that the giant, like, listen, the Giants defense has played way better than I expected them to this season. I expect the Giants defense to play this well. You know, kudos to Shane Bowen and to the Giants defense so far for the continued improvement they've made and especially what they did against Cincinnati because, man, that had to be really frustrating for them coming out of that game and not getting a win after playing like that. Now, they did have breakdowns, right? That Joe Barrow touchdown run, that was bad. That was bad schematically. It was bad from the players. It was bad all around. And then at the end, you know, they wore down and Chase Brown gets in the end zone on that touchdown. But, you know, there are some positives that you're seeing. It's just not, it's not all coming together. And unfortunately, you know, again, it is the Brian Dable offense that needs to pick it up. Joel, what's going on? He says, Pat, I really hope we don't see Joshua playing left tackle. Yeah, so that's a good opportunity for us to go over really quickly the tackle situation without Andrew Thomas. So, I came out of the Giants locker room on Wednesday after talking to all these players talking to Brian Dable. My belief is that it felt like what happened in practice today is that the Zudu played left tackle Jermaine Luminor played right tackle. Evan Neal was still a backup. And a Luminor said that he prefers to stay on the right. He said, I'll go left to the left side if they want me to, but I prefer to stay on the right side. And I trust a Zudu on the left. The Giants have put their faith in a Zudu consistently said they believe in him. And also Evan Neal was kind of lobbying to play a little bit more. Like he said, yeah, you know, it's a tough situation. Implying essentially that he was still grinding like behind the scenes and not getting the first team reps. Like it's not like there's a competition of him and a Zudu right now like Josh is who is the guy. I mean, we'll see, but I really think I genuinely think that even if Luminor was moved to the left, I think that they would put a Zudu at right tackle and not Evan Neal, even though Evan Neal has been working as the backup right tackle more so than a Zudu. The Zudu has been working around at different spots, but I don't think I don't get the sense that they intend to play Evan Neal unless they absolutely have to, which is kind of an under discussed storyline that, you know, their number seven overall pick from 2022 is essentially somebody they won't put on the football field. He has not played a snap and either special teams or on offense this season. But yeah, the Josh Zudu playing left tackle. We've said this a million times. Great guy. I hope he succeeds. I want him to succeed. I like him a lot. But we've seen that he is not able to do that and hold up over the course of a game that it has led to a Daniel Jones injury in the past last season. So that was not fair to Josh Zudu last year because he was training as a guard and camp and then he was moved to tackle. So I guess the Giants latest argument is that now he's had a full essential, essentially a full year plus under his belt working at tackle so he's going to do that. We'll see if that comes to pass. It would be refreshing if that was the case. The Eagles pass rush has struggled. So you could be walking into a good first opponent to get Josh Zudu's feet wet there. And then you could worry that, you know, maybe Bryce Huff finally wakes up because he has a favorable matchup, you know, against a Josh Zudu or whatever it is. You just don't know how the Giants will hold up there with Josh on the left because of what we've seen in the past. You can only go on the precedent and on the football we've seen. You guys and I all saw this coming as far as the need for a swing tackle, Brian Baldinger was one of many people I talked to sources in the off season for a story about the Giants offensive line around the draft. And one thing that was very clear to a lot of people was that the Giants did need a swing tackle they needed to invest in some way in a swing tackle now obviously. They went and got a luminaure John Runyon Jr. Austin Schlopman the backup has been hurt. Who's out of his, he's not on his scooter anymore by the way I guess his rehab looks like it's starting. But they invested in those two starters which they also had to do then they also signed Greg Van Rotten eventually. But they never invested in a swing tackle and they didn't draft any offensive lineman even to develop that swing tackle in the off season or in the draft in April. Now it's coming home to Roost. Now it's right back where we were last season and it's on Josh Zudu it appears in his first game against Philadelphia. Again more more to be afraid of a Philly in the interior with Jalen Carter as a pass rusher than on the outsides based on how the Eagles have performed so far in the pass rush department. But they do have talent there if not production that they've been looking for so far so it is still something to be concerned about. Luanne says the Giants will win. Love the optimism Luanne. Gary says hi Pat. Why do we play so tight at home? Daniel Jones one of 14 in prime time is unacceptable. Yeah good question Gary. You know I think I think that they feel they desperately want to perform and produce and win for the home crowd for the Giants crowd for the Giants. I think that they've done so much losing as an organization and as a team. I think that weighs on them. I think the frustration of losing the frustration of losing when their office isn't scoring right that compounds. I think their coach is an intense person who gets tight for these big games. You know I think he gets tightened up and I think the team kind of follows that. You know I think that the it's a little bit of a walking on eggshells attitude. And I do think that the us against the world mentality they've played with at times in the Cleveland and Seattle games. Definitely something they've been able to unlock more on the road but if you noticed in those games. But the Giants I think they went scoreless in the second half in Cleveland and still won. So they came out with kind of a reckless abandon and out and we're all we got mentality. But it was a nail biter holding on at the end to skate by and then. In the you know the Cincinnati game. Or sorry in the Seattle game on the road which was the Giants best game so far. And their best game in a while overall. I think that. You saw even in that victory the Giants played a certain way for a majority of the game but at the end. They started to tighten up. They started to clam up the Giants defense even which had been playing really well. Suddenly had huge let downs at the end of the half and end of the game. And again you were looking at them nearly. Giving it away and so. I think you see. Those. Qualities even in some of their road wins. I just think it gets magnified. On at home. When the crowd is. You know when they're when they're trying to impress the crowd rather than trying to. You know kind of. Shove it. To the opposition's crowd or. Or prove themselves or kind of hunker down and bunker bunker down type thing. Against a road crowd. But obviously they get paid to win no matter where they're playing. And this is something that every team has to deal with right. If you're struggling your home crowds on you you have pressure. We look at Nick Siriani and the Eagles right. Siriani having that. Back and forth with a fan in the link you know the pressures on in Philadelphia. The pressures on in Dallas where the Cowboys are a laughing stock after that performance against the Lions so. It's not just the Giants who have under performed but. You know it doesn't matter what anybody else is doing they got to figure their own stuff out. And they can't figure it out at home and that's. Gary. I do think it's the leadership. I think I do think it stems from stable and his style and his demeanor on the sidelines and during game days. But. I also think that. You know week one. Against the Minnesota Vikings that crowd. At MetLife Stadium was disgusted with the Giants and for good reason. And they were all over them and. I think that's in the back of their minds like I you know they're not they haven't been talking about it as much anymore. In fact. Ryan Dable has been doing a lot of random compliments of the fans. Especially when they go on the road. And he keeps you know he brings it up out of nowhere and references that we have asked him about that in the past. But. I think that first game you know the players remember that they know that. They know that in the first game of the season. When they laid an egg. The crowd basically told them we're done with this and we're done with the quarterback right. That was essentially the message from the crowd coming out of that game. And so I think that's the that's the. That's the environment they're walking into now I don't think. You know I was there at the game the other night the crowd was behind the team and ready to. Ready to go ready to explode and in support of. Of the Giants and. You know when the defense was making plays. The crowd was loud you know it got loud in there and. You know I think. It's not like they're waiting to dump on the team now they're desperately looking for something to happen. But I do think the team is tense because they know. And they know how bad. How bad it's been they know that they haven't played well. John Ferraro thank you so much John checks in. With a couple super chats here thank you John so much. John checking in with five bucks six bucks there. John says zero touchdowns in last seven prime time games one and fifteen lifetime abysmal at home doesn't that equal choke. Yeah no for sure I mean what a what a ridiculous stat that is for Daniel Jones obviously to have to own. You can't you can't run away from that you can't hide from that as much as I've been saying it's not. Only on the quarterback because it's not in my mind there's a lot wrong. But you can't argue with those numbers. The problem is the Giants. Resigned that player and have put their faith big time in that player and that's who that's their guy so. That's where they're at. You know I think if you were asking me hey. Could the Giants go out and get Dak Prescott right now and put him on this team or whatever and Dak has had his own problems right. You guys are talking about Matt Stafford I see Mike saying Matt Stafford. Yeah those those type of players. Would improve your team. In my opinion but. That's not the reality of the situation for the Giants right now that the Giants reality right now is that. They are in a position. Where their alternatives are drew lock and Tommy DeVito and so. You know it's kind of like a. If you want to see someone new in a new. Then all well and good but seeing that new face in the game and hearing that new voice in the huddle. Is not going to result in better football that's what that's what I'm saying. So you'll see the change and you'll you'll be glad that the team is trying to shake things up to make progress but I do not think that a change to either of those players would result in meaningful consistent progress on offense and with the team. But that John thank you so much and you're right those stats speak for themselves. Those stats say that you're not winning with that player and the long term that's not the long term answer that that's what those stats say there's no doubt about it. That's what those stats say. How do you argue you can argue with that. Louisa's sake one turned down 14 million dollars a year he's greedy he's all about the money. Turned down 14 million a year now that's not true he did not turn down. 14 million a year. He the Giants didn't offer nearly the amount of guaranteed money so. Those you know those numbers. It was about the guaranteed money and the Eagles offered him a significant more guarantee and also Luan remember. It was also more about how the Giants handled it with him where he just felt like they were looking to move on at a certain point and they did not value him despite what he had contributed. And so it was also that element of it it wasn't just hey I want the most money it was also the team that I've made my bones with here does not want me anymore and I'm now also looking for somebody who appreciates me and for a change so it was kind of mutual at the end. Mike says do you think the Giants should trade for Matthew Stafford. I would of course pick up that phone and make that phone call I would I would love to have a player like that. I think that getting him out of Los Angeles though though would be would be difficult. Obviously the Rams could keep losing. But you know Matt Stafford's going, you would Matt Stafford would be traded to if he were traded he would be traded to a team to elevate them the same way he was traded over to the Los Angeles Rams to take them to a Super Bowl. That would not he would not be coming to the two and five or two and six New York Giants to dig them out of a hole and get a wild card that you know what I mean. Joel thank you so much for the super chat he says Pat on that burrow touchdown run was Isaiah Simmons out of position for that play it looked like he looped around and got caught at the line of scrimmage inside of the scraping to the outside. So Joel I don't believe he was out of position there. I think they intended to overload the front the way that they did with the blitz. And instead of rushing to contain while they had those double teams on the outside and the down the field. They rushed to beat their men one on one and they left some open A and B gaps there for Joe Barrow to sneak through. So that was my that was my sense of what happened there on that play was that they overloaded the front and then their rush did not account for enough contain. But it looked like on that play that Simmons especially based on how hard immediately he started taking off the second he saw it. It's kind of like whoop you know one of those. Also Jason Pinnock you know you'd love to your safeties even even with Tyler Neubin coming down and working on a double team just too many backs to the ball. And you know maybe that's a maybe that's a you know a product of being a zone team that's usually facing the ball. Now you're playing man to man and guys aren't as good as kind of whipping around and being able to do that. You know I think you need to be able to play man better than that to recover better than that. But you know that was that was a terrible play for sure terrible play for sure. Because really I mean they they only let a couple big plays kill them but those plays did kill them right. Thank you for the super chat super chat Joel. Mike says how likely is neighbors going is it that neighbors will play Sunday. Seems like it's possible Mike but until I see him fully participate and come out of it on the other end I'm not going to say hey I think he's going to play you know. It was you know it was a serious concussion so I do think it seems to be trending in the direction that he will be playing in the game but we'll see how he comes out of a Thursday and Friday. Good signs on Wednesday at least. Stephen says I hate we we should be I hate the we should be this we should have won this that game you are what your record is and it's not good for sure yeah that is unfortunately that's the reality. Manzo says we need to clean house in the quarterback room like we did with all the O line from last year. Yeah and listen you saw a lot of the lot of the noise and the work that the Giants front office and the Giants organization did this year was the indication that they were looking to move on from Daniel Jones to draft his successor that they feel like it needs to be turned over to but obviously they didn't turn it over enough right. Mike says the offense needs to stop selling the defense short the defense played as hard as they could until they eventually cracked because the offense wasn't productive at all. Same old story right go to wink Martin Dale's defense trying to hold it together for the Brian Dable offense last year and unable to do so, even though the Giants defense led the NFL in takeaways tied with the Baltimore Ravens last year right. And we all saw, you know, where that went, what that led to the dysfunction, the fracturing of the coaching staff, the factions, voluntary departures of several coaches, some fired as well. So, you know, you don't want this to continue to become and to continue to be a situation where the defense is looking at the offense. You know, desperate for any help right, any help whatsoever you can give us and knowing though that is not going to come you can't be, you can't be in that mode. That's, that's, that's not that's a, that's a terribly unhealthy place for the Giants to be. All right, let's see. Pat, do you think the Giants would look into the trade market for a quarterback. The trade market for a quarterback I think. I mean, where are we talking about it there's a trade market for a QB. I mean, tie rods not coming back. See I'm going through the divisions AFC East there's nobody there. AFC North. I mean, you already did the Russell Wilson thing. You're not bringing him, you know, here Justin Fields isn't leaving there. Justin Fields isn't your answer here either. The guy in Cincinnati I guess, but Browning but, you know, I guess you could make a call on a player like that but again Daniel Jones has a lot of physical skills that even some of the, some of the players that you guys would probably want to trade for don't. You know, and these guys are middling players who are not going to change the trajectory of your franchise. I mean, you know, they signed you locked they gave drew lock guaranteed money. You know, so, I mean, I do they they do have to. On the one hand you can't sit on your hands on the other hand. They made this bed they this was their decision of how to proceed through this season. After they didn't draft the quarterback it was we're going to run it back with Daniel we're going to get him weapons we're going to fix the offensive line we're going to do. All that now then the question becomes. What happens if you ride it out with Daniel Jones and the bottom falls out. So, you know, that's again what I come back to is they can't as an organization and as a front office and as a coaching step they cannot let it bottom out here. If it bottoms out, you know, that's going to cost people jobs. So, that's the concern. I mean, I don't know where the Matt Stafford thing came from. I mean, I brought up Stanford's name when we were talking post game on Sunday. I don't know if somebody took that and ran with it or something. But we were just talking about, you know, if you could go out and desperately get a quarterback who clearly upgraded you who would it be. And I was just going through the league looking at it and I said that the Rams are one in four and they have Matt Stafford so like obviously that's a veteran who would upgrade you if they were selling at some point. But then what I said was that, you know, Stafford, he's a, he's a veteran family man a guy who won a Super Bowl for the Rams who they're going to do right by. You know, that's not a situation where that player is desperate to join a team that is, you know, going nowhere or fighting for a wild card at best or, you know, like, that just doesn't, that just doesn't add up to me. You know, I don't, I just, that's, that's like a, that's a dream scenario, but also, again, he's the time, he's the kind of player that he's an elevator, a finishing piece, the Giants are not one quarter back away from being this amazing team. That's not what they are right now. So Intel, you ask about the Stafford rumors again, I don't know where they came from. I knew it was, it was more just about, you know, looking at the landscape and feeling out which veterans on bad teams could be looking for better situations at first but that's a guy near the end of his career. There he is, you know, I don't know. I mean, the Rams did at one point because of Stafford's salary. They did at one point consider, you know, moving on and looking into moving on at one point and then kind of came back to earth on that. I'm also getting Cooper cut back, I believe this week, they're playing the Raiders, Puke Nakua, I believe is going to be back later in the season I Sean, I saw Sean McVay saying that he feels like they're very much in it. He's not, he's not despondent about the state of the team. Be interested to see what their trajectory looks like in a couple weeks here. But if you guys know where the actual rumors of this is actually coming from, other than us just kind of spitballing you let me know. But no, I mean, I, I have not heard any legitimate Matthew Stafford reports or information from my conversations with people. Steven says, Pat, I don't get the coach taking a field goal in the Dallas game, not going for it, then multi for decalls on your side when if you don't get it. Oh, then multiple fourth down calls on your side when if you don't get it, it will cost you the game. When your offense has to do multiple fourth downs to keep drives going. It's broken. Yeah, Steven, I agree. This goes to a game management issue and a coaching issue that we've hit on before, which is that. Brian Dabel's plan that sometimes does not look cohesive and it is more of like a. A feel thing and a fly by the seat of your pants. How am I feeling in the moment addressing the situation type thing rather than governed by a defined philosophy. And for example, after the Cincinnati game, Dabel was saying that all week, yeah, we were talking about we were going to be aggressive against this team because they're high scoring is a high scoring game. But in the first half, they had a fourth and five and fourth and four around their own 45 to 47 respectively, and they punted both of them. And then in the second half when they were scoreless at halftime, and it was desperation time, then suddenly started going for everything, including that first one I think at his own 36 that they didn't get. And the defense bailed them out. And so I saw that as reactionary coaching, rather than like a strategy. Let's see. Mo Plaza says, Pat, do you want to see a subway series? I'm a Yankees fan. Yes, I do. We love a subway series, especially with the way that the Giants season is going. You know, I think that. I think that the way that the Giants season is going the way that the Jets season is going to the end. The nicks are the nicks are back. So that's going to carry the day as well as far as the attention and excitement level in the sports world. But if the NFL season is really going in the tank or on the verge of going in the tank here. Just another, another great thing to kind of spice up the local sports scene. And yeah, no, I like the angst too. So pull it, pull in for the bombers there for them to get there and do it. Stanley says, why is it that when players play for the Giants, they struggle? But when they go on other teams, they thrive. I don't think it's that with every player, Giants to another team. I think this happens with a lot of organizations. Stanley, when a player isn't a good fit in one team. Sometimes that is just an indication that he's not a good fit there, but he might find a better one elsewhere. So this is kind of a running joke in a lot of franchises because. When a player doesn't fit initially, usually he heads off and tries to find greener pastures and sometimes succeeds. It is kind of getting shoved in the Giants face a little bit right now because. You know, guys like Barkley McKinney, you know, even go back to like when Eric Flowers left the Giants and became like a serviceable guard. You know what I mean? Like a guy who was contributing as a guard and was actually not a bad player, right, and was able to kind of handle himself in that regard. Yeah, so I mean, I think. I do think that culture is important. I think that leadership is important. I believe, you know, the word development is a little overrated when it comes to the NFL. I mean, you do develop players and teams, but I think it's more about the. The idea of let's say playing guys in the right positions, supporting them the way they needed, they need to be, whether it's coaching them to use their strengths and not. Asking them to do something that enhance or that exposes their weaknesses right things like that. And then. You know, so it's positive. It's smart utilization. It's. You know, when you're in a losing environment, like constant losing can wear on you. Sometimes you need to go somewhere where the team is a little bit better is, you know, like, for example. You know, if you're a facilitating point guard in basketball, the better the score is that you're playing with the better point guard you're going to look, you know, that's, that's kind of a really dumb down version of it, but. You know, you might be a quarterback, like Daniel Jones, who three years from now, you end up on a different team with better weapons and a more consistently good offensive line, and you may have more success, because there's just more support around you. And you might have a coaching managers and game situations better. So those are those are some of the issues. Johnny says is Evan Neal's role, right tackle or bust, or will we see him in another position before finally giving up on him. Johnny, they've talked a whole time as if he's just a right tackle is just a right tackle is just a right tackle, stable today for the first time open the door to Evan possibly working on the left at times if needed. They kind of came out of nowhere, obviously their desperation mode to find solutions with Andrew Thomas gone. Evan said that he would do it if they asked him to play on the left, but any, you know, he said it was be an adjustment, but not a major one that he's done it before obviously in college. But the, you know, the. The truth in my opinion is that they want to do everything they can to not put him on the field is the way it feels that's the way it feels. I do think that if they were to put him on the field, it would be on the right side. I have been clamoring for based on my conversations with a lot of people clamoring to see him at like a left guard spot. Obviously he would not be replacing a John Runyon or a Greg Van Rotten or anything like that, but work him somewhere where it's going to take the biggest advantage of his skillset. And don't put him back in a position where if your company is going to fail if you put him back in a tackle, don't play him a tackle. See if he can play guard. I think I think the ship has sailed though, frankly, that's the way that they're treating him in my, in my mind. Jay Farries what's up Jay Farries in the house he says, do you ever run out of positive things to say about this team we suck boom chaga. I still need to bring some boom chaga into that locker room and get some of these Giants players on board because need that whether it's an energy boost or some some antioxidants to get the blood flow and get them going. 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Of course that will be up to ownership to decide whether or not they deserve an extra draft to go get a quarterback and develop one. You know I think that how many years can you run a stagnant or flat out bad and limited offense is it just the quarterback. I mean that'll be up to them to judge. I do think they have enough belief in Daniel Jones that they would understand that some of it is Daniel but some of it is not and they have to be concerned about that whether it's the game management issues, whether it's the drafting and personnel issues. So that's going to be up to John Marra and Steve Tisch to decide. Stanley says do you think the Giants will draft your Sanders or Cam Ward even though they are not known for drafting black quarterbacks. I think that they will draft the best quarterback available. I think we saw in hard knocks that they were eyeing not only Drake May but also Jade and Daniels who was a black quarterback. And I think that they want a talented quarterback. They want the best quarterback. So yes if they deemed should your Sanders or Cam Ward the best quarterback and they had a chance to draft him and get him. Then I do think they would. You saw on hard knocks laid bare that they were talking about potentially trading up for Jayden Daniels. We also know that Drake May was a target of theirs with May or with Daniels off the board at two. OG says I'm getting sick of hearing Daniel Jones has to play better. When are we going to see it besides the game here and there Daniel Jones is trash pat hopefully he'll be better. Hope hope saying hopefully he'll be better is delusional. Oh no I think yeah I think I think he is what he is at this point. You know he is what he is. I agree with that. I'm just saying I don't think it would get better if you put in one of the backups. That's all I'm saying like in the here and now that you know I don't think he's been good enough I don't think it would get better if you put in the backups. That's what I'm saying for the here and now. He got a what's up he says hey Pat we are a quarterback away that challenges the length of the field you mean to me if Daniel Stroud or even perdy. We don't win this game. I think that they could be a quarterback away in some games I don't think they're a quarterback away from being a strong team though that's not so that that's what I'm saying. You know I'm saying that I saw issues in the lost to Cincinnati for example where Daniel Jones was not the one the only reason right now listen that interception in the red zone terrible. Didn't like to play call either. But terrible turnover. I mean, yes Jaden Daniels would help your team and improve your team. Yes CJ Stroud one of the best quarterback draft picks basically the best quarterback draft picks since Patrick Mahomes. He elevates a team and Brock Purdy good player but no I don't know I don't know if necessarily Purdy you know overcomes what the Giants are right now I wouldn't say that. D says were the rumors true that Macadoo wanted to draft Mahomes but he got overruled by Mara because of his loyalty to the Manning's it is true that Ben Macadoo had a high opinion of Mahomes obviously didn't win out in the end that the Giants. You know, it wasn't like the Giants went up and got Patrick Mahomes obviously and he was in the minority and loving Patrick Mahomes but the the idea that he quote unquote got overruled I don't know how that conversation went specifically. But yes he did like him and they didn't end up taking him so Macadoo did have a high opinion of him. Deepats says why did the Cowboys work with the Eagles to steal Devonta Smith from Gettleman did the Cowboys trade with the Eagles to stick it to the G men. I remember that definitely had that feeling of them kind of colluding in a sense or collaborating to screw the Giants at that time. Definitely an awareness of the fact that the Giants wanted Devonta Smith and so the Eagles knowing that made that move and went up and got him. So that that was the genesis of that essentially was odd that the Cowboys enabled that and helped them with that. And of course the Giants went with a double whammy by trading out and not taking Michael Parsons and then the Cowboys get Michael Parsons so a huge swing there as the Giants move back get an extra draft pick for the next year in the first round but also take a look at the Warriors Tony, who flamed out with them. Yeah that was interesting, you know the Cowboys and the Eagles that was an interesting time to remember the Eagles tanked the final game of a season to prevent the Giants from winning the division and getting into the playoffs as well. And there's a rival we're here that goes beyond the field you know it goes all the way up to the owners box with Lori and Mara and how he roseman very much involved in that as well and the Eagles and the Giants are always trying to stick it to each other they hate each other and so you know that was interesting though that the Cowboys enabled that to happen. Oh geez as Daniel Jones wants to be related to someone important that we don't know because never in my life have I heard more exclusive excuses for one guy. I want to explain that borough run Steven I think if I didn't let me know but I think I did. Joel asked about that as well. Let's see NYC says what are you talking about they've been bad at home since last year. They were bad everywhere last year NYC I don't know if you remember that. But they were they were pretty bad everywhere but yeah no they that that was under able to though I was talking about, you know, they play they've played tense at home. Now for several years because like they've been losing a lot that's one thing I think that hasn't helped. Obviously the fans not showing up at games and a lot of these years under previous coaching staffs and in these seasons where they hit the skids especially being eliminated from playoff contention fairly early in a lot of these games or in a lot of these seasons so that doesn't help and it gets it becomes cumulative. But yeah certainly I mean last season they were you know six and eleven overall and they were not a good home team they were not a good road team they were not a good team so totally agree with you. John says Pat do you think secretly Dave will wants to get fired not understanding why he refuses to bench Daniel Jones now with Andrew Thomas out he's going to get hurt 100% guarantee. Well, John the. So to me. They have a judge that Daniel is the best quarterback in their building that is that's the way I see it now. You know I do realize as I sit here with you guys right now I have not asked the question this week yet. You know I have no reason to believe that anyone else has but I have asked that at other points so that's worth asking Brian Dable to see if that's the case. But I have no indication at this moment that that has happened yet. Daniel. So the injury guarantee is a factor and could be a factor down the road. But I believe that Brian Dable is coaching for his job and Joe Shane might be you know operating this team for his job as well like you. John nine seven and one they made the playoffs want to play a game. They were three six and one at the end of that season. They followed up with a six and 11 year where rampant firings and voluntary staff departures and just a terrible environment toxic environment dysfunctional. And now this year they're two and four and now their franchise tackle is down like they need to win some games. John are you are you saying bench him so you don't lock in the twenty three million dollar guarantee for next year. Because if that's the only reason you're benching it like to me you're benching him to try to improve the offense and win games if you're benching him. And yes I get like I guess we started this conversation talking about that if the bottom falls out like Jacob asked about if you get to the bi week does he get benched then. I mean if you if you lose three of the next four or all the next four and you bench Daniel Jones at the bi week. I mean how is Brian Dable the head coach here next year. You know so I think I almost see that. I kind of see that the opposite way it's like if he wanted to get fired. The move would be to you know rip the band aid off now go to a worse quarterback or a quarterback who hasn't performed it well as well in practices. And just play out the string play your only card your only trump card early in the game and then have nowhere else to go and play out the string you know. I mean does he secretly want to get fired no I mean this these are big time jobs that you know you might never get again. But do I think he knows that he could get fired yes I do yes I do believe so yes I do believe he understands the consequences if they don't win. But says Brian Dable told Daniel Jones to throw that ball across his body to Theo Johnson and the scripted plays they ran the exact same play. Daniel Jones hit the running back ain't no way he's doing high school stuff. Two series later especially when the coach was so aggressive that he went for five fourth downs he's definitely 10 telling Daniel Jones who he wants him to throw to that's interesting that's it's an interesting observation. And theory definitely definitely think too that that is an ill advise play in general. You know even the fourth down play where they didn't get it at the end went instead of kicking the 54 yard field goal on the fourth and six. Two of the routes were down the field not really helping them to get a fourth and six. Tyrone Tracy was pretty far back behind the line of scrimmage flaring out slate and in one day out of the five routes are really the only two options for Daniel Jones on that play. And then because of the pressure he didn't have time to wait for one day. H 5000 says Joe Shane was really talking up sports medicine and how the training and medical groups would be evaluated when he joined the Giants the results as many injuries or more very well said H 5000. Still not sufficient ground grounds gains ground gained in those areas. Again, Ronnie Barnes the training staff now they've added Aaron Wellman to the mix on the training and the kind of the management side of things. And they're putting a lot of resources into that but. You know they were staying relatively healthy early outside of the Graham Gino snafu which was ridiculous mismanagement and decision making and then. Obviously neighbors had the concussion and other depth injuries but a lot of their top guys had stayed on the field, which was helping that Devin Singletary goes down as well. But now Andrew Thomas cave on Thibodeau you're starting to see it really pile up Jamie Gillan gets hurt and practice. So definitely same old same old Giants when it comes to that stuff. Kyle says the Giants are dying for a home win and if that doesn't happen this week against the Eagles the thermometer is going to get hot for the entire organization. Exactly Kyle exactly well said. Oh Jesus says people are upset with Brian Dables play calling but not realizing he has a bum quarterback no matter what play he calls he didn't have a problem calling plays in Buffalo. Yeah comparing Daniel Jones to Josh Allen though is not doing anything like it. Josh Allen is a top two quarterback in the NFL. I mean of course if you have a top two quarterback in the NFL your teams can be better. Diki says if Tyrod Taylor was on this team we would be four and two that is possible Tyrod was better than Daniel when he was here. D says but Tyrod is more injury prone maybe than Daniel and he's older he's fragile. Steven points out that the Giants fans were patient on Sunday night because it was competitive ugly but competitive. Yeah yeah well no I mean yeah they were they were definitely especially when your defense plays well the crowd stays behind the team usually right. Like defense gets gets a crowd going dominating and opposing offense I mean the opening drive touchdown didn't help but when the defense was making big plays and continually getting the Bengals off the field. The crowd was very much in it. Yeah no Steven I agree I was just I was more pointing out that the crowd was super negative week one and essentially said we're over this but they still came back for a game like a prime time game against the Bengals and they were in it and ready to go and just the Giants couldn't deliver especially offensively. Mike K says back to the ball because it was man coverage that's what you're supposed to do. No Mike but you don't understand that yes your back goes to the does turn to the ball if you're in man coverage more so than in zone. Yes correct that's what I'm that's what I'm observing but you don't you don't have everybody in coverage in the secondary all with their backs to the ball not watching the quarterback who's sprinting down the field until he's 25 yards down the field. So yes playing man to man has you running with those receivers which tends to turn your back to the ball but you have safeties for a reason. You have linebackers for a reason and again like I said the pass rush needs to account for those players having their backs to the ball and it can't be a upfield one on one leaving all these rush lanes open for the quarterback to escape like that it's on the awareness of the players downfield to turn around use their eyes right. You can have your back to the ball but still have awareness and use your eyes in space I mean that's that's incumbent upon you but then also my point was as well that those rush lanes were with the overload front and with the way that they rushed and able burrowed to get out quickly and gain speed and off to the races and that was that. OG says honestly if you think about it the Giants history of drafting quarterbacks is poor Phil Sims and Eli Manning that is it. Intel says honest answer do you think Shane and Dabel are going to get fired. I still think it's on the table if it hits rock bottom yes I do. I think that I have a hard time believing Dabel is going to be the coach here next year and then we'll see about the general manager but again it depends like that's why there's so much riding on a game like this. If you beat the Eagles here and you shove it in saquon's face and you know you figure out a way to have an explosive offense even without Andrew Thomas and Daniel Jones plays well and you score 25 or 30 points in that leg stadium. And you beat the Eagles for a second straight time now because you beat them at the end of last year. How different is that versus laying another egg scoring 10 points losing to the Eagles Saquon Saquon runs wild after you let him go there even though John Mara didn't want him out of the building even though his teammates didn't want him off the team and out of the building I mean that's why there's so much riding on this game. Mike says I'm so disappointed defense did everything they needed to do on their end to win against Cincinnati limited chase burrow zero touchdown passes Higgins to a lesser degree as well. Same thing kept happening last year versus the bills and jets for example. O G says Daniel Jones or Dabel shouldn't get fired all the excuses for Daniel Jones but none for Dabel having a bum quarterback how come Josh Allen wasn't complaining about Dabel's play calling. Because he is a top two quarterback in the NFL. Let's see. C says Dabel needs to play lock and see how this offense plays out they need to give the fans some hope that the season is not a waste. O G says but get rid of Dabel and get who let's be honest the people the Giants track record of picking the right head coach isn't great either so get who. I mean that that's ownership's job is to make better hires they haven't made good enough hires your job would be to make better hires. There are several intriguing treatment candidates Ben Johnson Detroit would be top of the list Bobby Sloeck in Houston is an interesting one Brian Flores of course a guy that they had on their radar before. Brian Flores is somebody to keep an eye on as well. Although I don't know maybe the lawsuit and the the wrong Brian alleged texts from Bill Belichick maybe not sitting well maybe that ship has sailed right so, you know, but. Let's see who else do we have. Of course Mike Vable bill Belichick out there. You know got a bunch of Titans guys in the building I don't know if Mike Vable though is would be John Maris cup of tea. Let's see. But OG that's also like saying if you're fed up with Daniel Jones. You know you'd say well the Giants don't have a track record of picking good quarterbacks right so that by your argument you'd you'd be saying. Well why get rid of Daniel Jones if we never pick good quarterbacks anyway once we do right so. The bottom line is. Winning games is what matters and that's why after that Seattle game even though they almost coughed it up at the end. They played a pretty good game with a good game plan from stable and they deserved praise. After the Cincinnati game it flips and I'll tell you what. The players were more negative and realistic about that game than I I really even like I was surprised. At how candid they were about how big of a regression that was they didn't use that word. But they were very shell shocked about it was almost like wait we came home from Seattle we thought we had something what the heck was that you know they were very kind of startled by their inability to really do anything against Cincinnati. Mark B points out that Chaga is the king of mushrooms that's right. Let's see J says they're the only ones with belief in Daniel Jones and they are way smarter than us. Jeff says Pat do you think the reason they're keeping Neil off the field is to ensure he's healthy so they can trade him. You know Jeff that could be a possibility except. I don't I honestly don't know what the reason is for keeping him around if they're not going to use him and they don't have confidence in him. Other than just avoiding putting him on the field to look worse about the draft pick maybe. I mean to me Jeff it would be hard to trade a player like that who has put a lot of bad football on tape. And get a lot for him like what a team give you more than a conditional seventh for Evan Neil right now I don't know I mean. The last time he played football he didn't play well and he's had injuries. And he's had like maturity issues that you hope it is over now but you know I don't I don't see that as the reason because I don't think he would fetch anything. A2 says hey Pat I have a feeling both Shane and Dave will have been given personal assurances that their jobs are not tied to Jones success just a hunch. I don't think that's not that I know of. I don't think so. But you you might be right A2 like if you're saying hey they're just letting it play out playing out the string. But A2 remember to John Marrow was on board with at least what he said he was on board with them going and drafting another quarterback and having that quarterback compete with Daniel Jones for the job. So he's flipping from that to you know you have to play this quarterback and I just want and I won't fire you no matter what. Not to mention okay let's say that's the case. Their job was still to give Daniel the best chance to succeed did they do that. I mean if they keep losing games it's going seven points a game I don't you know can you say that I don't know. John says I asked that question because I've seen other people say Brian Dave will won't be fired keeping Daniel Jones a starter does give the Giants the best chance but the Giants need to draft to one of the top four quarterbacks coming out. Yeah I don't anyone who says that Brian able definitely is not going to be fired. I mean I think that usually the Giants and NFL other teams do this too it's not just the Giants but I do think when there's a lot of pressure and a lot of criticism. The first move of this organization a lot of organizations is to rush to some sort of public defense in that regard whether it's leak leaks to team friendly reporters or the team saying it themselves in some form to a national reporter or whatever it is. Or maybe it's stable going to a reporter and saying you could say it's from the team or whatever it is but that's also often the first step is like if something's crumbling first it's we believe in this guy. And then it's we believe in this guy still but we need to see progress and then it's we don't like what we're seeing this is still our guy but it needs to turn around and then fire it out right that's usually how it goes. Now if you remember before with a few weeks to go and that season Joe judges final season. I believe was it John Mara who went on the record and set with a Schefter that were Schefter reported that the Giants had given judge assurances he would be back something along those lines and then like three or four weeks later he was fired. Obviously you had the the press conference and the and the goal line runs that of course kind of accelerated the situation there. But, and this is not just the Giants either this happens in other organizations as well those comments can everything things change things change. Benji says when are we going to change the turf also a big problem we keep ignoring they have changed the turf a couple times Benji. I think that even though the turf has been a problem in the past. I believe it is now used as an excuse for their injuries when their issues are not the turf it is as far as their team's injuries it is. There's something wrong with their preparation and management of these players bodies. John says we watch John Mara on hard knocks not wanting to give up draft capital to go get one Jaden Daniels right you can correct me if I'm wrong. Not wanting them to give up draft capital to go get Jaden Daniels. No I am I don't remember that didn't didn't they didn't the front office talk about going to get him. And then it just never came to pass and I think I think what happened with Shane explain the scenarios of what would happen if they couldn't do it. Steven says you explain the burrow run earlier let's see. FYI I park in the back lot P at games and it was pretty empty Sunday night also a lot of empty seats by me the no shows are happening already. That's interesting Steven thank you for sharing that from my vantage point it was hard to tell. Especially they darkened the stadium a lot that everybody with the flashing lights so he kind of created a cool atmosphere. That's interesting that's good that's good information. John says met life is going to hold hold World Cup game so they will change it soon maybe after this season. Well they need grass in there for met for the World Cup. So that's what's interesting is that there's no grass there for football but they will have to have grass in there for the World Cup. Yeah D my opinion of the turf is that they have changed it a couple times. It used to be a major problem I do think the new turf is something that the players like better. It's like it's a kind of a combo grass turf like a hybrid. I think that it's a crutch now to say that their turf is the reason for their injuries that's not. You know that that is more of a crutch now in my opinion. Let's see. John says regarding Daniel Jones I think he has PTSD at home. He's the most booed New York sports player and people harass him off the field. I know it's to the point where it's to the point where there's probably no turning back. It's just based on whether he wins or not he just has to win or else. Oh Jesus Tom Brady complained about the play calling in New England and he's the goat. Look at Aaron Rodgers complaining in New York now. Let Brandon Brown picks the pick the next quarterback. Oh Jesus. A to says I didn't say any of my hunches were correct Pat Brett says Pat how did Andrew Thomas get injured. He got hurt on the. He got hurt on the touchdown drive in the third quarter. One of those plays he came up limping and he stayed in. But he was hobbling and clearly ailing and. Yeah just happened during during that drive. And he pressed through played through play through a lot of pain. I'm not quite sure why they let him play through that all the way through the game and to finish. Maybe that was not wise I don't know whether that worse in the injury or not. But really a shame. John says Pat if you heard if the Giants have any interest in Devin White weren't they trying to trade for him in 2023 he would be a major upgrade over Mike McFadden who has been bad lately keeps going to the wrong gap. No and based on the fact that Devin White was unable to gain any playing time or stick in Philadelphia a team that is desperate for good linebackers that doesn't seem like he would be a solution at all. But jumping around the league a little bit I wanted to talk also about the wide receiver trades this week. Now about Devontae Adams and Amari Cooper to the Jets and bills respectively. I personally believe that the Amari Cooper trade this season for 2024 is going to produce more results and pay better bigger dividends for Buffalo than Devontae Adams will for the Jets I think Adams Rogers that chemistry of course is exciting. But you know Rogers again throwing Mike Williams under the bus calling out his wrong route that type of stuff like get that stuff out of here I mean it's a bad culture the Jets franchise is lost. They didn't even let Robert solid change the play caller before firing him. I think that that's another team that if they have one or two. Yeah I'm not wishing anything on anybody I hope they stay healthy but you know if they have one or two injuries to the wrong guys it could really fall apart fast. I thought that that loss to Buffalo was a huge L for them to take even though it's early in the season is a bad loss for them at home. And remember even though they only lost by three which pushed for betters for all those my bookie betters you get the push there instead of the win that was my one and my 10 three and one. You know they had the Hail Mary at the end of the second quarter which first of all Sean McDermott admitted going into the locker room that he wasn't playing for the Hail Mary he was playing for the sidelines as far as the scheme. And then they need to do a do a better job of knocking the ball down. How are you not playing for the Hail Mary there and how are you not rushing more guys at Aaron Rodgers there this is the king of the Hail Mary. Obviously what they're going for. What do you care about giving a field goal up there like McDermott I mean I just don't understand it. But you know I think that the Aaron Rodgers situation that Adams. Yevante Adams you have Garrett Wilson you have a lot of explosiveness there. But again are the Jets a receiver away. Is that is that what they're if that is that what they need. They need one more receiver and everything will be fine is Rogers going to play better because of Adams we'll see. We'll see. We'll see if he's going to turn him back into the old Aaron Rodgers but I think that the Amari Cooper trade to Buffalo is important because now listen Buffalo proved in that game and in these last few weeks that they have plenty of work to do as well right. So the bills aren't perfect and I'm not saying that they're a world beater team but as we've mentioned him a lot in this chat. He is Josh Allen. John says Rogers is a diva and I'm happy for Josh Allen to get Cooper. And here's the thing about the Buffalo Bills kind of like the Dallas Cowboys this year not the same exact thing but kind of like the Dallas Cowboys. The Buffalo Bills put this group of skill players on the field to start the season where everybody said. They need more than this. Right. And I know the CD lambs on Dallas but I'm just saying those are two teams that consider themselves. If not contenders then teams that want to be contenders or teams that should be winning their division. And yet you look at it and it's like they're asking their quarterback to do a lot without the amount of weapons that they should really have at their disposal and of course Buffalo. It's clearly extremely grateful to get Stefan digs out of the building and get that kind of diva behavior and detrimental behavior. And like sub tweeting of your quarterback out of the building and I know that you know they they have less ego in those skill position rooms now. And James cooks really good player they have some talent elsewhere but I think that Cooper this top the top receiver position for the Bills I think was missing you know whereas Garrett Wilson is a number one ride receiver with the Jets. The Bills didn't have one and not that that fixes all of their problems either as a team. But I think it's really just hero ball on Josh Allen right now. And I think a Mario Cooper gives you an extremely savvy veteran that if Josh Allen gives him chances and opportunities and develop some chemistry with him on some back shoulders and things like that. I think he really will elevate them and turn their offense into something that's increasingly explosive. I don't know what that means for their Super Bowl hopes but I do know that you know when Josh Allen has a supremely talented and excellent wide receiver. It usually turns into something big and something explosive. And that's what we saw with Stefan digs so by the way that was the name I meant to mention earlier I'm not sure if this guy will be a good head coach or not but Joe Brady the offensive coordinator of the Bills. I think his name might come back up again here. I see this a Mario Cooper trade happen happening once James Cook gets back you have Josh Allen James Cook Mario Cooper. They've got some good tight end core you know Dalton Kincaid. They also have Khalil Shakir in the slot. I could see that offense maybe taking off a little bit more and getting back to the level that the Bills have been at in previous years. And maybe Joe Brady gets hot again as a head coaching candidate off of that so that's another one that I would watch again I'm not saying he would be a great head coach and head coach I don't know but I do think his name might come up a little bit more. Young Hendrix says I'm sure you touched on the subject already but I joined in a Luminor to left tackle and Neil to right or or a zoo to starts at left. Young Hendrix it looks it sounds right now like it's going to be a zoo to the left and a Luminor at the right and Neil still as a backup that's how it looked and came off to me after talking to table Neil zoo to a Luminor on Wednesday and observing the early part of practice. Dave will did say they would try a bunch of different things during the week and see where they settle but a Luminor said that he prefers right tackle even though he'd be willing to play the left that they need him. And I don't personally think they have an appetite to play of a Neil so I'm not sure even if a Luminor went to left tackle I think it's possible a zoo would be the right tackle. Brett says the bill saved me I won 750 on a $2 bet nine teams correct well done Brett hopefully you did it on my bookie. Good job though cash that in. Matt few says it seems to me that if the Giants lose to Philly and Washington they are 0 and 4 in the division no wildcard coming from the NFC East do they then bench Daniel Jones season is over too much too much to risk with the injury guarantee. But again now to me you're talking about are they guaranteed to have a job if the season goes in the tank. Like if they bench Daniel Jones and they lose out for a hydro epic are you telling me that they are automatically are that they are automatically going to be the GM and coach next year. I mean that's that's dicey there. Stanley says do you think the Giants will be the Eagles Sunday since it's not on prime time but it's still at Matt life stadium. Good question Stanley. Yeah right out of prime time so let's do it. I think it's going to be kind of an ugly mistake filled game yes because I think both teams have problems. I think the Eagles will score some points on the Giants. And I think the Giants can score points in the Eagles like I think the Eagles have the kind of defense that doesn't tackle well that Malik neighbors could finally end up with like a 70 yard touchdown in this game if he plays. But not because Daniel Jones throws it 50 yards down the field to him. I think the Eagles are a bad enough tackling team that problematic enough with their defense that if you get neighbors a catch and run in the right scenario on them. I think this would be the right defense for him to have an explosive big time touchdown. So if he plays look for one of my giant sprinkle props might be like a neighbors touchdown over a certain amount of yards. So I don't think the Giants will win. I think the Andrew Thomas injury is a big deal but they have a chance to win. I'm not sitting here. I'm not going to sit here and tell you they don't have a chance to beat kind of a reeling Eagles team. But remember, Sequin, this is personal. Brett says the refs did everything they could for the Jets to win and they still lost and it was only closed because of the Hail Mary. Brett wants to know if they make a move for tackle the Giants. I mean, they didn't make a move for a tackle all off season. They're just going to make one now. And then again, if they were to trade a significant asset for a tackle right now, that would tell you again how much pressure they're under. But also teams don't trade really good tackles. Like they need them. So at this juncture, it's very difficult to get a really good tackle. MJ says Josh is who got Daniel Jones hurt last year and might do it again this year now. Yeah, Josh is a great guy, but that was a tough situation and now he might be put back into it. Brett says, why have they not practiced Neil at another position? No idea. I ask it every time we talk to the assistants and there's never an acceptable explanation. Michael says it's a mess now with their best tackle gone and I just hope it's an entertaining game. I don't see more than maybe five wins. Yep, pick those four picked four wins at the start of the season. John says Daniel Bellinger and Theo are going to be busy chipping with Andrew Thomas out and his Devin Singletary still RB one or will he be splitting with Tracy. I think it'll be a split at least. I think Tracy has earned the right to be the number one back with Singletary in the supporting and complementary role. So 50 50 60 40 whatever it is. I think Chris man hurts is the guy to look for as the blocker constantly chipping better blocker than Daniel Bellinger and Theo, but Theo will be on the field a lot. Daniel Bellinger has not been playing a lot. Theo has been playing a lot and then man hurts after that. So yeah, maybe maybe they end up having to go heavier again to help the offensive line. But again, they've run the ball better out of 11. MJ says Daniel Jones 42 touchdowns and 14 interceptions on the road. Tracy can be a good quarterback, but the guy just can't play at home at night for some reason. Not everyone is built for New York. John says maybe Daniel Jones can run on Philly and met life for a touchdown and fingers crossed not trip over his own feet. What a highlight was that was. Brett says fans are the reason so the people hating on Daniel Jones in the atmosphere. Is is the reason for Daniel Jones struggling at home. All right, so I did not do the estate 98. Trivia question so we're going to do that now right at the end of the chat so estate 98 coffee one of our sponsors. We're going to do a giant trivia question and I ask a trivia question the first person to answer this correctly in the chat. Gets a free bottle of estate 98 coffee, so I'm going to ask you a trivia question giants related and. What you're going to do is when you hear the trivia question you're going to enter it into the chat your answer the first person to answer this correctly in the chat. We'll win a free bottle of estate 98 coffee, so here's a trivia question. The 47 yard rushing touchdown by Cincinnati's Joe Barrow on Sunday tied for the longest run by a quarterback against the Giants since the 1970 merger. So there was one other quarterback who also rushed. For 47 yards against the Giants in MetLife Stadium. Honestly it's been within the last 15 years I'll say so within the last 15 years. So Joe Barrow's 47 yard rushing touchdown tied for the longest run not the longest quarterback run the longest run by a quarterback against the Giants since the 1970 merger. It was done by which quarterback. Quarterback did not score on the run but it was a 47 yarder tied for the longest run against the Giants by a quarterback since the merger. Let's see, Matthew says do you think the Giants management want to pay Daniel Jones 35 million next year if not better to bench him I have to think even Mara realizes that. I mean they're not acting like it. Intel says Pat it's time to move on from Daniel Jones sorry nothing is going to change. Stanley says is Daniel Jones aware of fans were burning his jersey after his horrible play against Minnesota I think I think he is he has not told me that but his family and friends inform him of what's going on he understands how bad it is remember the fans yelling at him and booing him coming out of the stadium after that game. All right so the estate 98 trivia question. The guesses have been Dave Megett Randall Cunningham Michael Vick Tyler no. This quarterback ran for 47 yards in MetLife Stadium against the Giants tied with Joe Barrows for the longest run by a quarterback against the Giants since the 1970 merger. I'll let you guys keep throwing in those guesses as I remind everyone we are sponsored here by my bookie my bookie is celebrating its 10th year anniversary rolling out the red carpet for sports betters all of you. No use the patch picks last week and made a killing including on those props. Like I said look for the risk free Thursday bet coming in from my bookie tomorrow October 17 and that will be for probably an ugly but an interesting game nonetheless with Sean Payton going back to New Orleans with the Denver Broncos so look for the risk free Thursday bet at my bookie and also if you're a my bookie member already my bookie plus is their new loyalty rewards program you get cash back in your account exclusive giveaways and promotions. The best deal going right now is if you open an account as a new user on my bookie.ag use the link in any of my social media profiles and use the promo code pats picks and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Whether you like betting on the underdogs the over the unders the props that I love those ladders those sprinkles. 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You'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order right now that means a month's supply cost you only $30 start filling the difference today at boom chaga.com. And brought to you by our estate 98 coffee estate 98 is an all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go coffee drinkers. It takes me only 10 seconds to make it a state 98 ice coffee is delicious also a minute more make a hot coffee or latte. Go to a state 98.com backslash talking ball to get a special buy one get one free deal it's basically a month supply of coffee for half the price. And guys, thank you for all the super chats thank you for all the questions and the likes please hit those likes while we are still live before you leave. So all of that supports our channel thank you so much but the best way to support this podcast and this channel to help us keep growing is to try out a little account on my bookie win win some money there. It's to try out a bag of boom chaga mushroom super drink is to try about all the state 98 coffee. All of those purchases help support us the advertisers see that our loyal listeners and followers are going and using these products really appreciate all the support. Brett says we need a hint Pat no you do not Brett because somebody got the answer correct and that would be John. John says Cam Newton the answer is Cam Newton Cam Newton rush for 47 yards. Against the Giants in MetLife Stadium on December 20 2015 did not score on the run as I said but Cam Newton and Joe Barrow now tied for the longest run against the Giants. By a quarterback since the 1970 merger even John can't believe it. John send me your address or appeal box wherever you want me to send the estate 98 coffee. And I will have a bottle of that estate 98 sent out to you. The state 98 will send it directly to you promise you'll love it. You'll love it for ice coffee. If you like hot coffee or latte lattes you can use it for that. Also good for as like a coffee mixer if you make an espresso martinis things like that. You know kind of coffee right there tablespoon of it ready set go. Yeah so John send me your address on Instagram if you have Instagram go in my direct messages. And my account there is PL on NFL send me your address or PO box wherever you want that mailed on Instagram and I'll get that out to you. Congratulations on getting that trivia question correct. A to Z me says Daniel Jones is going to walk away from New York with over $100 million in his bank account I have very little sympathy for multi millionaires who suck at their job sorry not sorry. And Michael says yes that's pretty wild that they would agree to use real grass feel for World Cup and NFL refuses to tell teams to use grass. No doubt the NFL players don't love that obviously because of all the money the time and their bodies that they invest in the game. Thank you so much for being here for another episode of talking about live with Pat Leonard. John shoot me that link or sorry john send me that address on Instagram please so I can get that estate 98 out to you. Thanks to my bookie and boom chaga and estate 98 and to the believe network for helping us host this live chat. All right, thank you so much for joining us today. I'm going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about. I'm going to talk about what we're going to talk about. I'm going to talk a little bit about what we're going to talk about. I'm going to talk about what we're going to talk about. I'm going to talk about what we're going to talk about. I'm going to talk about what we're going to talk about. What we're going to talk about is what we're going to talk about. What we're going to talk about is what we're going to talk about. What we're going to talk about is what we're going to talk about. 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[ Silence ]