The Jordan Syatt Podcast

How to Stop Impulse Eating and Thinking About Food All the Time - Reena's Story

In this episode of The Jordan Syatt Mini-Podcast, I speak with Inner Circle Member, Reena, about:

- How to stop impulse eating

- How to lose the last 10 pounds

- How to stop thinking about food all the time

- How to model a healthy relationship with food for your daughters

- And more...

I hope you enjoy this episode and, if you do, please leave a review on iTunes and Spotify (huge thank you to everyone who has written one so far).

Finally, if you've been thinking about joining The Inner Circle but haven't yet... we have hundreds of home and bodyweight workouts for you and you can get them all here: https://www.sfinnercircle.com/

Broadcast on:: 20 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

- Hi, Jordan. - Reena, let's go. We're live, just, you know, we're live or recording. I'm very excited to see you. And thank you so much for postponing last week. I was so sick. So thank you for understanding. How are you? - Of course, no problem. You know, it's funny. I was messaging Kat and I told her I saw you on the live and I'm like, he just got back from New York. He has basically a newborn and all the craziness going. I'm like, I was gonna actually be like, Kat, are you sure Jordan's okay to do this? 'Cause I felt like you didn't seem like your usual energetic self, you know? - Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. - I'm happy we were, I'm like so nervous. - Oh my, don't, all right. And it doesn't help to say, don't be nervous, but like, you know, I'm just a nerdy bald. You know, come on, like we're gonna have fun. I'm so excited to talk with you. Thank you for emailing me. And I think this is gonna be a wonderful conversation, but before we dive into the fitness stuff, like I just wanna get to know you better. So like, tell me about you, who are you? Where are you from? What do you do? Like give me more info on Rina. - Okay, let's see. So I am, I guess I'll start with my age, I'm 44. So I'm right in the middle of all of the, I think like just hormonal fluctuations and things like that. And I feel like this year, like, you know, people say after 40, everything kind of starts going downhill. I actually didn't feel that way. I, I had my kids in my like early to mid 30s. I have two girls, a 12 and a, actually my nine year old's birthday is today. - Oh, happy birth, that's amazing. - Girl, dad to girl, mom, you know, it's amazing. You're gonna have your hands full for sure. So anyways, let's see. So I actually got into like the best shape, fitness wise, health wise, all of that right around 40. When I, after I had my second daughter at like 35, I put on a lot of weight and I was like, you know, just not feeling confident or good in my skin. And I was a stay at home mom at the time. And so at like 38, I'm like, all right, by the time I turn 40, I want to feel confident. I want to be healthy. I want to be healthy and like a good role model for my girls too, you know. So I started working out. I didn't really track, but I was just more conscious of what I was eating, portion control. I actually even tried the whole keto thing for a little bit, which I would never go back to that now. So all that said by like my 40s, I was feeling amazing. I had lost about 40 pounds. Oh, wow. - Yeah, I, you know, I started working out. I got obsessed with like Zumba. Not so much weightlifting in the sense how you kind of do programs. I was more very new to it. So I did like beach body workouts. I like less mills workouts at, you know, regardless. I felt great. My girls were in school. I had time to like dedicate to all of that. All was good, you know, lost a lot of weight. And then, you know, I actually did and ended up going back to work after my girls started school. - And what do you do? - So I'm a project manager/engineer for a medical device company. - Wow. - Yeah, at the time, thank you. At the time I worked really close to home. It was like an eight minute commute, no freeway, no traffic. It was amazing. And, but I did notice I started putting on a little bit of weight because I was way more sedentary. I mean, I was getting like 10 to 15,000 steps and I started using a tracker. Once I started working, my job is very sedentary. On a good day, I would have like 3000 steps, you know? So even though I was pretty controlled with my food, I slowly started putting on some of the weight. So basically it was right before COVID hit and I was like, okay, I need to do something about this 'cause I will be damned if I gain back all that weight that I tried so hard to lose. So you would know her, Kim Schlock, I actually signed up with her. - She's amazing. - One-on-one coaching. Jordan, she's amazing. She, I still to this day use a lot of the steps that she, you know, the 10,000 steps, tracking the importance of protein fiber calories, like all of that, it was so simple. I signed up with her, lost about 20 more pounds actually with Kim. But again, life happens, you know? I ended up, we moved. I now have same job, which I love, but my commute went from eight minutes to 45 minutes in traffic. - No, did they like move offices or something? - No, I moved, we moved houses. - Oh, oh, I got it, got it, okay. - So with that, you know, we love our house, nice neighborhood, schools are great, whatever, but that's a lot more time. I'm just, you know, sedentary. So along with the sedentary job, plus the sedentary, you're in commute, busyness of being a mom, a wife, all of that, I started putting back on some of that weight. It took about two years, but fully enough, I did gain like 15 of those pounds. - Okay. - And so, you know, obviously I joined Inner Circle, I love it, it's, you know, your app, I have to say, is amazing, you know, the consistency calendar. You don't realize how, like I felt like I was putting so much effort into making sure I'm tracking, but those weekends and, you know, just those, so my question, I guess, to go back to my question, it was the impulsive eating habits, you know, where I'm also short, I'm like five feet. - Let's go, let's go, we're part of the club together. - So being short, I know my calories are very limited. So right now, I'm like 1450 to like 1650, which is doable for me. It's not, it's not difficult. I don't feel like I'm hungry or starving or anything like that, but, you know, it just adds up really quickly. And so-- - So fast. - Yeah, it's not like a suffering amount, but it's so easy to go over it, right? It's like, that's like a very difficult line of, I'm okay, but if I have one extra snack, I'm out of my calories for that. - Exactly, and so that is where I struggle. And so I'm like, if I don't track, it's very easy, you have a couple of bites here, and those are like those impulsive habits. Mainly, when I come home from work, you know, I'm tired, I'm slightly overwhelmed with everything I have left to do for the rest of the day. And so when all these little stressors kind of add up, plus like commute, I live in California, Orange County. - Oh no. - I think it's a nightmare. - Oh no. - Between all of these things, I get home and you know, I'll have my coffee and I'll have a snack, although I have to say, after I asked you this question, I don't know if it's because it was in my mind, I did make more concerted efforts to be like, "Okay, this was not something you planned for, "this is an impulse, you don't really need it." And I think the conscious effort did help, but you know, my thing is, I know about the fitness stuff, I know I have to work out, I know I have to get my steps in, I know I have to be within a certain calorie amount. But the thing is, you know, how do I make this a lifestyle where I'm not tracking always, I really don't eat badly, right? Like most of my meals are homemade, but if we go out on a Friday or a Saturday or things like those are the little things that kind of add up and then derail me. But you know, I was just like, right now because I'm tracking, I'm like, okay, I had 300 calories impulse or unplanned, so I can kind of Tetris my way around my dinner. But because I'm tracking, it's easier for me to do. What happens when I stop tracking? And you know, when you have these little bites, you don't really get full, and so you'll go to eat dinner. And again, if you're not tracking, that just adds up really quickly. Next thing you know, you slowly start putting that weight on, you know? And again, I don't overeat like that, which is why it'll take me two years, but eventually it starts coming back on, you know? - Makes total, all that makes total sense. I think you articulated it so well. And what that shows is how much time and effort you've put into this because you articulated everything from a place of a tremendous amount of experience. I don't, you might even take for granted how much you know. I don't know, but like, the way you just expressed all of that, so clearly and succinctly and articulately is quite frankly very impressive. And it shows how much time and effort you've put into this. So huge props to you for that. It's funny, like just as an aside, there are many people who say, "Oh, I know all about health and fitness." And within seven seconds of talking, you can tell they have no clue what they're talking about. With you, I know you do. Like it's very clear based on what you just said and how you said it. There's a lot that I want to discuss that the, let's dive right into the impulsive eating because that's what, that's why we started talking. You had made the comment and the inner circle live about impulsive eating. And I was like, we've got to talk about this on a podcast because it's, I think so many people struggle with this. And in this time around, you mentioned something about, well, how do I do it without it? And not verbatim, but to the effect of how do you do it without it like becoming an obsession? Like how do you do it and still live your life? Is that correct? - Right, exactly. I don't want to be like a prisoner to tracking. And I don't want to start putting on weight if I am not tracking. I guess the thing is, in a way, I look at this as my second time around trying to lose the weight. I don't even want to get as small as I was the first time because I don't know if that's completely sustainable for me. And I think I just stayed in this cat. I was probably like 90 to 95% consistent. Like I tracked everything. So this time around, I want to make decisions that'll help me just sustain this. And I know even for you, right, Jordan? Like you'll do like eight months of living life. And then you're like, okay, I'm starting to put a little bit of weight on and then you go back to. But see, here's the thing. I don't know if it's the age 'cause obviously you're younger, you're a guy, right? And so those things allow you to kind of bounce back as soon as you go into that very strict like calorie deficit. I think for me, at this age and at this point in my life, it does make it more difficult where you gain the weight and then it's a lot harder to lose it in that two month or three month span. - Yeah, I mean, all that makes total sense. So we're gonna talk about that. I'm glad you brought up what I do 'cause that's one thing to consider. I do want to discuss just individual differences, which is not from the perspective of this is what you need to do. Just from understanding like with anything, like with exercise technique, not everyone follows the exact same technique based on their bone structure, based on how they're built, based on what feels good for them, based on their injury history. Like not no two people are gonna follow the exact same plan. So I bring this up because in terms of nutrition and making this a lifestyle, there are some people and it's getting more and more rare, but there are some people, Rena, who they literally don't even think about food. Like they don't even think about it. And I'm not talking about people who have severe weight issues. I mean, they might literally present as relatively low body fat, overall very healthy people, and they don't even think about it. And it's literally like, it's almost, it's hard for them to understand what it means to really think a lot about food. My wife was one of these people before two babies. Now she's much more conscious around it, 'cause like for the first time in her life, she's really wanting to lose weight again. Whereas like she never thought about food and she lived very healthily and all of that. So my work was very odd for her. She was like, oh, I didn't realize people think about it very much, now she understands it more. But I bring this up because for some people, they'll just never really think about it. For other people, they think about it all the time. It's literally, it takes up a huge percentage of their day. We're really hearing the term food noise a lot more now, 'cause people are understanding it's like, you're just always thinking about it. Sort of like financial noise, if you struggle financially, then every single thing that you spend your money on is gonna be a big, big, it's gonna be like a huge shouting match in your head. Whereas if you don't struggle financially, you might not think about those decisions nearly as much. Same thing with food. If you have obsessive issues with food and that's like taking it to the extreme, or even if you just want to maintain a healthy weight, food might take up a larger conversation in your own head. So with that in mind, it's important to know that everyone is different and that's okay. So now I wanna bring that back into how do we allow you to maintain a body weight and body fat that you're happy with, and that's healthy without it taking over your entire life? Now, the unfortunate reality is it is way more difficult for someone who's smaller. It just is. It's way more difficult for someone who's smaller and for someone who's a woman. Like it just, fact, it is way more difficult, period. And that's just, the unfortunate truth and some people will try and beat around the bush and say it's no, it's just, it's more difficult. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it's way more difficult because it's harder to build up more muscle mass which will help burn more calories at rest and the smaller you are, the less energy you need, right? It's like what requires more fuel, a moped or an 18 wheeler. Like obviously the 18 wheeler needs more energy. So with that in mind, now we can start to discuss what's the right methodology for you. I will say that as you get older, and especially as not just you get older, but especially as schedule changes or logistics change, like 45 minute commute, relatively sedentary job, all this stuff, it would make all the sense in the world that losing weight is gonna be slower than it was before. Like it would be shocking if it wasn't. If you told me you're losing weight at the same rate, I would either say you're lying or I would say which, which anabolic steroids are you taking? 'Cause that just like wouldn't make sense. And especially if you go from like 10 to 15,000 steps a day to like almost without trying to making it very difficult to get 10,000 steps a day, that's a significant amount of calories burned every day. That's gonna make it harder to lose weight and make the weight loss process slower. One thing that you said that I think shows how clearly consistent you've been is it took you like two years to gain 15 pounds. That's extraordinary. Just so you know, like that's two years to gain that is relentlessly consistent. And I want to reframe that from a bad thing to a good thing. In your mind, I know you weren't happy you gained the 15 pounds, but rather than being upset about gaining 15 pounds, I would say like it took me two years to gain that like, that is an outrageous amount of consistency. I know people who gained 15 pounds in three months. Like that's, and that's like majority fat by the way. Like it's very, I'm not gonna say it's easy, but it's pretty easy to do that. If like you're just not paying attention at all and like you just don't care, you're in like a binge fucking mode. Two years and 15 pounds, Rina is truly, it's a testament to how consistent you were. So with that in mind, I think we can start to maybe find a middle ground to where maybe you take an approach somewhat similar to mine and not necessarily, but I wanna talk about it and sort of workshop it with you, where if instead of gaining 15 pounds in two years, what if you do more of a cyclical approach where like you move into a maintenance slight surplus, so you end up gaining like, I don't know, five pounds over the course of a year or so or seven pounds over the course of a year, and then you do a brief mini cut. So you have a whole year where you're not like meticulously and you're not going, it's not everything you think about. You have more leeway, maybe you can go up to 1,800 to 2,000 calorie range, slowly gain a little bit more. And by the way, this would be the perfect time to be lifting really heavy and building more muscle 'cause that's when you can really take advantage of that and maximize that muscle growth process to then increase your metabolism further and really make a much bigger dent on your metabolic rate. Then from there, after a year, you take two months, three months, you lose those five to seven pounds and then you can repeat that. Now that is, as you said, that's what I do. - Right. - That's what I do and it means that there's, I don't know, three months of the year where I'm not like stoked with my level of body fat, where I'm not like, yeah, but the rest of the year, I'm very comfortable, right? It's, and again, I think this is important just from a perspective, like I don't know anyone who all year round is like, fuck yeah, I look so good, I love how I look, I love my body, I don't know anyone who's like that, even by the way, and probably most importantly, people who are outrageously strict with their nutrition and borderline have eating disorders, where if you and I look at them, we're like, damn, they're shredded, but in their mind, they're so obsessive with it that actually becomes a problem. I don't know anyone who's happy all year round with their level of body fat, and the way that I've done it is, it's like, okay, if I wanna have a good balance, I'm gonna have eight to 12 weeks a year where I'm gonna calorie-deps it, that's like, and it's pretty frickin' easy, it's not a big deal, I lose between seven to 12 pounds, then the rest of the year, I'm relaxed. It's like, I can enjoy and slowly gain it back and build more muscle, and it's just, that's just what works really well for me. Now, that's not what we have to do for you. How does that make you feel hearing now? Like, what are your thoughts about that approach, and again, do not feel the slightest bit required to follow that, just I wanna know your thoughts. - I think at this point, you're right, the reason it's taken me two years to gain it is because I have been so meticulous about tracking. As soon as I start feeling like I'm putting on a little bit, I go right back into tracking mode, and calorie-deficit mode, so that's why it's taken me so long, but to be honest, it does make me nervous to eat that many calories. Yeah, 'cause I just don't wanna gain any more, you know? And I'm just struggling, I mean, even right now, I look at my consistency, and I'm about 80% right now. - That's amazing. - Like, a month and a half being into inner circle. Before this, I was probably, I think last month, I ended up at like 68 or 70%. - Okay. - I did switch my calorie-deficit from the high-low days to a week and warrior. - Okay, good. - Because I noticed, like, honestly, that is what aligns better with my lifestyle. Like, I don't really need the extra calories during the week, it's that Friday, Saturday, Sunday. We're going out more, we'll go to a friend's house, family's house, you don't know exactly what you're eating, so that is what's working for me right now. But even still, my higher days still really only go up to like 1750, so it makes me nervous because, you know, first of all, the whole lifting heavy, also, I work at at home, I have a home gym. - Okay. - If I really have the ability, I just don't have that much weight right now to be able to lift that heavy. - Okay. - That I'd be very concerted about getting my steps in. So, if I do that, I'm about, able to get about 10 to like, 10,500 most days. Anything more than that really has to be like, you know, I went out on a hike on the weekend or something like that. Most days, though, we're looking at 10,000. So, it does scare me to add some of those calories in knowing how sedentary my life is and how concerted I have to be or conscious I have to be about getting those steps in, you know? - Yep. I mean, that makes total sense. What I do want to say is, well, you have a sedentary job for you to be getting at least 10,000 steps that you don't have a sedentary life. And that is by your design. And that's all props to you for whatever it's worth. - Interesting. You know, I always just think I have a sedentary life. - No, you don't. I mean, if you allowed your job and to prevent you from getting, I would say over 3,000 steps a day, that's where I'd be like, yeah, you've got a sedentary life. Your life, because of how hard you work and because of how much effort you put into this, is not sedentary. If you're getting 10,000 to 10,500 steps per day, no part of your life is sedentary. I mean, I shouldn't say that. Your life is not sedentary. There are parts of your life that are sedentary, like when you're at work, but your total activity is not a sedentary life. - So do you think Jordan, the fact that, you know, I work at in the morning and then I have my commute, that's like, you know, if there's no traffic like 35, but let's say 35 to 45 minutes, and then I'm at work all day where I also get, you know, minimal steps, but I do have like a little stepper at my desk that I'll jump on if I did this, like not, if I've been kind of more on the sedentary side than usual. So I do little things like that, and then I come home, I will get a quick like walk-in or whatever. But like when I think about it, there's such a big chunk of time where, you know, my watch is constantly telling me, even though I stand at my desk, I'm still standing and typing, right? Or standing and on calls. It's not like I can walk around. And so it's still telling me, you have to move. I still try to get like my minimum 10 stand hours or whatever. But does that make up for being like for that sedentary-ness, I guess, or usually a word I know, but it does. - If you're getting your steps in throughout, like at by the end of the day, you're making up for it. You are. Now, there's a lot of discussion we could have around, like what would be optimal, right? Like, and especially optimal from a health perspective, which is different than fat loss, right? It's like from a fat loss perspective, total steps or total movement will say is most important. From a health perspective, I think there's a real argument to be made for a more consistent movement throughout the day. - Yeah. - But if we're being, if we're gonna go down that route, I think if we're gonna talk about health, we wouldn't be locked up in an office for 10 hours a day under fluorescent lights with people that we might not even like and driving 45 minutes to get there, 45 minutes back. Like, if we really wanna go down that health route, then our current work system is not optimal, but our work system is not done for health. It's done for money, right? - Exactly. - I mean, that goes into our food system. - Yes. - Work system. These are things I struggle with on a regular basis because I think about why do we have so much quick and fast and easily accessible food because people have busy lifestyle and you need things that are quick and easy to grab. And that's what you're packing for your kids 'cause they're in school, they need to eat foods that are easily microwavable. And I know, I struggle with that whole thing 'cause I'm like, where does this put us in the spectrum of overall health, you know? - It's crazy. And this is a big aside. I literally just saw within the last couple of days, I think it's Elon Musk has now invented like this robot. And technology has done so many amazing things. They're pros and cons to everything. But this robot, which was supposed to be released within the next few years. And by the way, quote unquote, it will only be about $20,000 to $30,000, which I know it's a lot of money, absolutely. But like for what this is going to do, it's not like it will be able to do your chores for you, clean your dishes, walk your dog. It will be able to be a tutor, like to your child, like it will be able to do basically everything. And I'm just thinking, holy shit, we already can just sit on our couch, order Uber eats. We don't have to get up and cook. We don't have to put our dishes away. Like we already have to move so little. And now for $20,000 to $30,000, and eventually it will go down 'cause competition and the market will bring it down even further eventually, people won't even have to get up at all. And so our entire, when I say our, I mean more of Western cultures, our entire life has been set up from the perspective of how can we be more productive towards making money? That's really what it boils down to. And it's all the way down to the individual level, all the way up to the corporate level, making people more productive. And what's another interesting part about it is like sort of during and post COVID era, it's been very interesting for me to talk to people who now work from home. Because when they were in the office, oftentimes they would have meetings and then they would walk to and from the meetings and then they would go get lunch during the work day and there would be like built-in breaks. But now that they work from home, their schedule is from 8 a.m. or 9 a.m. until 5, just meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting, meeting. And there's no breaks. There's no like walking down the hall. There's no like chit-chat. - The thing is in that one room. - Yes, in that one room at the one screen, at the one computer. And I just see this going more and more and more of that way. And myself like fight in the power. I'm over here trying as hard as I can to do that as little as possible. But even I get stuck into it like, but even like if I'm editing videos, I try and just do it walking. Like I just, like today I made a video and I just edited it on my phone, walking around the garage. But that's relatively new because before I would either have to pay someone to do that or I would sit at my computer for six hours and do it. Long roundabout discussion to say, there's a big difference between health and fat loss. And there is a overlap in a Venn diagram, but if we're chasing optimal health, our current system and lifestyle doesn't necessarily allow for the optimization of it, but that also doesn't mean we can't achieve a huge portion of it just by doing, like getting the big rocks. So what I will say is even though your current lifestyle doesn't optimize it, just by you getting those 10,000 steps a day, just by you keeping track of your calories, protein fiber and hitting those 80 to 90% consistently, you're getting the most important parts. And that's like, that's gonna get you the best results over the long term. It doesn't mean there aren't ways to improve it, but I do think that without question, you are not sedentary. You have a sedentary job, but you go out of your way to make sure that your lifestyle is not sedentary. And for whatever that's worth, like you're part of the 5%. The 95% of people who have a lifestyle that you have, they wouldn't get those extra steps, they just wouldn't do it. And so for you to, you're putting in a huge amount of effort, which makes me even wanna help you more, 'cause like you're working so hard, I want you to be happy with what we come up with and create a plan that is very sustainable and enjoyable for you. - Okay, yeah, that makes sense. - So from there, I know it's a little bit scary or worrisome, the idea of potentially eating more calories. I very much understand that. I also very much understand that in my experience, if something scares you, it's often the thing we need to do, but it doesn't mean that we have to take that route. So let me ask you this. Have you thought about what maybe a different strategy could be for you? And that would allow you to maintain, and when I say maintain, I don't mean like maintain the exact weight to the decimal point, but maintain within a couple of pounds of what you'd feel most comfortable and healthy at without letting it have so much time and energy in your life. Have you thought about what strategies might work for you? - You know, I'm not sure. I don't even know what strategies would work. The thing is, it's like we have two phases, right? There's fat weight loss or being in that calorie deficit where you're completely dialed in, where there's the other side of it where you don't do anything and you just start gaining. The weight that I'm at currently, I've probably been at this weight for about nine-ish months now. - That's amazing. - Not because I'm tracking either. So I feel like this is probably my natural weight where I'm just not happy at this natural weight, you know? - Like you want to lose more? - Yeah, from where I am right now, like my whole goal is to lose probably about 15 pounds. - Okay, okay. - Money would be great, but I think that would be a little bit harder for me to just maintain long run. So that's why I'm like probably about 15. Even 10, I would be ecstatic about. It's just, I feel very stuck and unable to do it. Now I do realize it is because of my lack of consistency with the calendar. I don't think I realized it as much when I didn't see the consistency. 'Cause I'm like, okay, I'm always tracking. You know, you feel like you're putting a lot of effort in, but until you actually see the numbers, you don't realize what you're actually doing. - That's why we put that consistency calendar in there because it really smacks you in the fucking face and you're like, oh, wow. I didn't realize that was the percentage of consistency I am every month. It's a great feature. And the thing is like say you're over again, being short, when you're over by two or 300 calories, that like really does set you backwards a lot. - It does, it does. - So I think I guess that's what I'm looking for is like a strategy on how do I work around that? You know, how do I stop myself from going outside of my plan or outs like that, that phrasing or like that, you know, where you're not really thinking about it, you just, it's just an action that you do without really, like how do you make that more of a conscious thing? - Make total sense. - Yeah, so what I'll say, like you are, for whatever it's worth and like I can tell, like I'm looking at you, you are already like very low, relatively low body fat, those are what we'll call it. Like you are like in a very, like you are very, you're not, you don't have a lot to lose, right? You don't have that much to lose, especially relative to the majority of the American population. Like do you agree with that? - I don't know, see, I feel like I've been struggling with these 10 to 15 pounds for so long and I just don't feel comfortable in my clothes like I used to, so to me, I think one thing that even helped me to lose weight in the first place was I'm very much in my own lane. I'm not looking at, you know, relative to other people and so when I compare myself to my previous self is where I'm kind of like, I kind of, I'm hard on myself because I'm like, you were able to do it before, you maintained it for, you know, three years or whatever it was before. Why can't you get back to that place? Why can't you go back to that? Why can't, like, you know, it's like I'm struggling with my, like it's like me against me. - Correct. Which is, I think in some ways it's healthy and in some ways it's not. We often say don't compare yourself to other people. I think this is a situation which actually it's very helpful to use that. Not as a judgment form but as a way just to have perspective. For example, like a lot of my podcasts are with people who've lost 100 pounds or more. It's like, you're not saying I need to lose 100 pounds. Like you're saying 10, 15, maybe 20. So just clearly, relatively and especially considering like the health crisis we have in the United States, you're not at a point where it's like, this is a major health concern. This is more of like a free in your own head and like for you feeling comfortable and confident with yourself. - Right. - Very clearly like, and there's nothing wrong with wanna lose that weight by the way. There's nothing wrong with it. I just wanna create that perspective. Like you are in a very small percentage of people who it's not a health issue. It's more of like a, I'll just feel more comfortable and confident there. Like, which is totally fine. It's just important to be aware of that. And then from there, then we can start to say, okay, what do we need to do to make this happen? And also realistically, what is likely to happen? Now, when, if we listen to any of the podcasts I've done with people who've lost 100 pounds or more or 50 pounds, 70 pounds, 100 pounds, as you know, you've been through it. Like you've lost a lot of weight. It's easier in the beginning. - Oh yeah. - It's way easier in the beginning. Like, especially 'cause you have more mass. So you can actually eat more calories and still lose weight. You have a bigger engine that requires more fuel. - And I think the other part of it is, you know, the, when I lost the weight right around COVID, I was very new to weightlifting. I, again, I did like the less mils classes or Zumba walking, like that's the type of stuff I did. And so I don't think I had a lot of muscle mass at all. So I've been very dedicated and consistent with like, I love lifting weights now. It's become a big part of my life. Like I, I follow the three days a week, which that was the other thing. I always thought I had to lift like or do workouts, you know, five days a week, six days a week. But doing three days a week, it's like so doable and I think that's why it's been really easy for me to make it a part of my lifestyle. So I'm like, okay, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday. Those are my days where I get up early. I get my workout in and it's been great. So I don't know like the more you would think the more muscle you have the easier it is to lose weight, right? Or maybe for that number to go down. But I think before I didn't have as much. - Correct. - So it was more fat, which came off really easily. But since I've still been lifting weights, I have more muscle and feel like is that possible? 'Cause then that makes the weight, like the numbers harder to go down. - Yes, I mean, you're building more muscles. So before when you didn't have muscle, you weren't building anything, you were just losing it, right? You were losing weight, you were losing fat without building anything. But then when you started building muscle, you were adding mass. So now it's not just losing. It's like you're pouring, if we're just looking at it from a weight perspective, imagine a bucket that's pouring water out, but also getting water poured back into it. So it will make it harder to lose weight on the scale, but it's a good thing because you're building very metabolically active tissue that has so many health benefits. So the weight on the scale will not, ideally it won't ever go down to where you were before because when you were a smaller, lighter individual, you didn't have as much muscle. Not to mention, and this is I think the unsung hero of strength training is the bone density. I hear, I'm sure you've heard of this. Like you build bone density from strength training, but practically what does that mean? If you've ever seen a bone like with osteoporosis or been fortunate enough to like feel one or hold one in an anatomy class or something, they're brittle. Like they're, have you ever heard of like how birds, bones, are there so light and they're so brittle because they need to be able to fly? Like that's what a bird needs. Some of the reasons that elderly people and not even necessarily elderly, but people will die if they follow us because their bones are so brittle that it creates a huge, huge, huge negative impact when they break. If you have thick bones, what way is more? A baseball bat that's hollowed out or even a door? Literally, it's a great example from me today 'cause we're building our house and like the doors in our rental house are hollow and like they're light and they're easy, like my dog could break it, but the doors in our new house like they're thick and the builder today was telling me like they're, they didn't, they don't hollow them out. It's like they're, it's a different feeling. So it might be the exact same size, but the weight is different 'cause there's so much more dense. And when you strength train your bones, it's amazing, Rina, they literally build more bone. So it's like your bones are getting heavier, which is also a good thing. And then we can go into tendons and ligaments which are also impacted by strength training, which also get heavier 'cause they're building more tissue. So you're losing fat, so the scale will go down, but it won't go down as much when you've built more muscle and more bone and more tendon and more ligament. So the idea of saying like I wanna get down to where I was before is you actually don't 'cause in order to get that light, you'd have to lose muscle and lose bone and lose tendon and the ligament. And that would, from a health perspective, be bad. From a longevity perspective, it would be bad. You've put in so much work and effort to build this muscle and bone. Like it's, you've put in so much time and effort and energy into it. The last thing you wanna do is lose it, just you can see a lower number on the scale. That'd be horrible. So that's where we need to have that perspective shift. So maybe you well in your mind, 15 to 20 would be great. I would say let's start with seven to 10 and you might actually end up fitting back in your clothes at seven to 10 pounds and liking how you look better and also being healthier for it rather than just chasing this arbitrary number 'cause you used to weigh that. - I think that is what I struggle with, that number. I get on the scale and it's like, and the thing is sometimes it's like after I work out and or the day after I work out. So if I have a heavy, not heavy, heavy relative for me, lifting day, the next morning, I'm like, I feel heavy, you know? - Yes, you are. - And you know, I was like consistent with my calories and everything and it's like, I'm like mentally prepared when I get on the scale. The number's probably like, although, you know, it is trending downwards for sure. It's very much maintained in the same like, one to two pound range in, I know, a grand scheme. It's not a long time. It's been like six weeks, I think, you know? It's trending downwards, but that actually does help me to put things into perspective where my body is different now than at the same weight what I was four years ago. So I-- - It's as easy as that. - Yeah, so I need to stop like chasing that number. - Yes. - Because actually, if I think about it, I am healthier now because I have now, I have four years of lifting weight, right? - You're preaching, I'm fist pumping, you're preaching. Like, keep going, this is exactly right. - Yeah, okay, that was a light bulb moment. - That makes me very happy. - I'm sure that you're a hundred percent right. - Yeah, I'm like, I'm so hard on myself 'cause I can't get back to that number that even when I look at pictures of me at the same weight, I had more fat on my body. - Yes. - Same weight four years ago versus what I have now. - Isn't that pretty wild? I mean, what you've done is what's known as body recomposition, which is arguably, actually, it's not arguable. It is, without question, the most difficult thing to do. And you've done it, which is you've lost fat and you've built muscle at the same time because in your, like, as you've said, years and literally at this point, years of strength training and consistent nutrition. It's amazing, what you've done is absolutely incredible. What messes with your head is the number though. That number does not, it shouldn't dictate so much though, right, because that's what it is. I am forgetting about all the accomplishments and the growth in the past four years because while I was doing that, I also ended up gaining some of that weight. And it wasn't for any, like, the thing is, I did have major life things that happened that caused me to kind of also gain, you know, it's not like I gained 10 pounds of muscle only. Of course, there is some fat in there too, but it is because of a lot of life changes that happened too. - 100%. - Yeah. - Without question. I mean, this is, you're exactly right on so many fronts, but especially, you shouldn't be letting that number dictate how you're feeling no matter what, but especially based on your results. Like, you are working so hard and you have accomplished so much. And this is sort of the issue when you do like the, like it's the U-verse U. It's a very different U now. Like, so much, it's a completely different U. You've built more muscle. You've built more bone. You've built more tendon, more ligament. So why the fuck would the scale be the same? That would be like saying like, oh, it's so weird. When I was 12, I weighed this much and now at 40, that's why do I weigh different amounts? It's like that, that's how crazy it is. - Yeah. - 'Cause it's so much. When I say it out loud and when I hear you say it, I'm like, of course it makes sense. - Yeah. So what do you think going forward? Like, what do you think a good strategy is for you? - To kind of resist those impulses. - Which impulses? - I think the hardest time is when I'm probably at home, especially after work. That's when all the stress, like I can finally kind of relax. I'm home and it'll be something simple, right? I'm making my own snack and the kids want, I don't know, whatever snack they're having and I'll just grab one of theirs while I'm making mine. And you know, for kids, I do try to give them healthy snacks and whatever, but with them, it's probably like cheese and crackers maybe, which I don't want the cracker, but it's just easy and it's there, so I'll just like, you know, you throw one into your mouth without even thinking about it, right? - Yeah, of course, and they're delicious. - Yeah, it's like, is there, I guess what I'm asking is, is there a strategy where I, there's something that like makes me pause? - Okay, we can talk, I want to talk about this. I want to talk about it in a minute. First, so in program design for workouts, we have like micro cycles and then we have something called macro cycles where the micro is more looking at what's happening on a day to day. The macro might be more planning out like in advance. And so a simple way to think about maybe a macro cycle would be, okay, you have an Olympian and they're going to compete at the Olympics in four years. So we don't start planning from today until four years, we actually start planning four years and work our way backwards so that we can, number one, they don't just have to compete at the Olympics, but they have trials and they have world championships. So we've got to like get them peeking at certain times. So then you literally design the program backwards so you can get them to peek at the right times. And I explain this just because I want to look at it from a macro perspective. So I think before we get into how do we get you to pause, I sort of want more of a macro perspective of what could your plan look like over the course of a year to two years? Like what would a goal look like for you? Is the goal maintaining your exact weight right now? Is the goal different than that at this point in the conversation? If it is great, if it's not great, that's fine. I just want to know like, and as we spoke about for me, like the way that I structure a year is I have a couple of months where I'm going to adapt it and the rest of the year I'm more relaxed. You don't have to do that. You could do something where you maybe eat closer to maintenance for the majority of the year. So it's essentially continuing body recomposition, building muscle, building strength, building bone, while still losing fat, but having it be very slow, while also having more leeway with your calories. What do you think from a more macro perspective you'd like to see over the course of what we'll call it a year? - No, I think that's kind of hard because I am very much like day by day. - We've got to change that. We got to change that. So we have a more plan. - I'm very much like day by day. I'm like, okay, what's tomorrow? 'Cause I feel like sometimes you get so busy, you don't have a moment to reflect on where you want your life to be in a year or two. - Yep. - I don't think I've actually ever taken the moment to really think about that. That's why we're on this call. 'Cause that's what you're going to do right now. We're going to think about it. (laughing) - Well, I don't know. That's a hard question. - Let me see this. For your work. You plan for your work or is it just day by day? Let's just see what the fuck happens. - Yeah, no, I do plan for work. - That's crazy. You plan to be successful. That's Rina. I've never. (laughing) - And I bet now that you're very good at it, you can plan maybe a little bit less because you have the systems in place. But when you first started, I bet you had to have more planning. What were you going to say in certain meetings and you had to prepare the exact specs of whatever it is you're selling? I don't know. I'm ignorant to the medical sales stuff, but I know it's badass. So I know you got a fucking plan when you're first starting out. So let's plan, let's come up with a legit plan for you. And it doesn't have to mean like, "Hey, this is what I need to do on April 17th." That's not what I'm saying. I mean, over the course of a year, number one, like what would your goal be? Let's start with that. What is like an annual goal of yours? - But I mean, is it a valid goal to be like, I don't want to be so obsessive and-- - Oh yeah. - You know, I want to like relax a little bit. I don't want to be so stressed out when I have to go out for a dinner or, you know, if I'm going to do something unexpectedly, we decide we're going to go somewhere or do something. Vacations, I think I'm pretty good about because that is my time to relax. And I think I've built up the habits where I don't overeat anyways, you know, when I'm even if I am on vacation 'cause I've gotten to a point where I don't like that feeling. - Yeah. - And that is the struggle, right? It's not because it's like these little things. I never get to the point where I'm like, "Oh my God, I'm so full." I feel gross, like not really anyways. Obviously here and there it could happen. But overall, most of the time, I never get to that point where I'm overeating. It's just for my size, it just ends up being a little extra calories. - Which when you're smaller, it does add up. It adds up quickly. - Hard to because, you know, when it's a feeling, right? Like you know when you're feeling stuffed or when you're feeling full, so you can physically stop yourself. But when you're smaller, it's harder to do that because it's such little food that you need to maintain, you know? Which is why I am so like kind of neurotic about it too at times, but I don't wanna be like that. I wanna be able to just enjoy and relax and not be so stressed out about those events. So I guess a one-year goal would be to get to a place where I don't have all of that food noise and all of that stress and anxiety over going out for a dinner or a lunch or things that I don't have so much control over. And is it, I mean, is it okay to say like, I do still wanna lose at least like 10 times. - Yeah, that's totally fine. - Yeah, I think that would be a goal, but I wanna get to a place where I can maintain it without having to track all the time. - Okay, this is, this is perfect. So you've outlined two goals. And if I say anything that's incorrect, say shut the fuck up and correct me, okay? It sounds like number one, you want to lose about 10 pounds, we'll call it, which is fine. Doesn't have to be exactly, but about 10 pounds. - None is good. - And then number two, you want to not think about food as much, like not be as neurotic, I would imagine both for you, but also, so your daughters can see you having a healthier relationship with foods that they can model that after you as well. - I do follow your, I think, I think I got this from you where it was like, you know, 'cause obviously my girls were all in the kitchen together, they'll see me measuring out every little thing. - Yeah. - And if you have asked me why, and I love that line that where you were like, I wanna make sure I'm getting enough protein, I wanna make sure I'm getting enough fiber, you know. They, like, you know, we want to make sure when we're lifting and doing all these things, we have enough energy to do all that, so I don't think they see it as a negative thing. They're kind of, you know. It's hard though, especially when you're raising girls, maybe with boys too, I just don't have experience, but especially with girls, you know, body image and size, like all that noise starts so young, right? And they get it in school already, so I don't want to contribute to that additionally. So there's just so many things you have to, like, think about and worry about comes to your own personal goals, but then also making sure that you're a good role model for your kids too. - Correct. And as you know, like, I love that you use that line and that they don't necessarily see it from that way, they're also wildly perceptive and see things that we might not even know that they see. So one of the best things about you having less food noise and being as meticulous about it is like, they'll perceive that, like, it will change, you know? You know how, like, when you're in the room with someone and without even saying anything, there's an energy in the room. Sometimes it's a bad energy, sometimes it's a good energy, but people just give off energy. Like, your energy around food will change and they will literally feel that, which is going to be very helpful. So with those two goals, I love it. We've got the two goals. - Okay. - Food 10 pounds and reduce food noise and be less meticulous, but those are amazing goals. They're both valid and they're both amazing. Now that we have those outlined, now we can say which one do we go after first? Now it doesn't mean that we have to say that they have to be completely separate, but I think it does make sense to have a priority number one priority number two and it doesn't mean like one is more important, it just means which one makes the most sense to go after first? Now, I would say, in base on my experience, the one that should be prioritized first would actually be losing the 10 pounds first. Because building or stopping that food noise, it's a much longer process in my experience. It's you're sort of like undoing a lifetime of things and we can still work on that while you're losing the 10 pounds, but your food noise at your weight now will be at a different level food noise 10 pounds lighter. And so I'd actually prefer let's get lighter and then we can really say, cool, now we don't even have to think about the weight loss, you're 10 pounds down, now we can just focus on one goal. Whereas if we start with food noise, it's like, well, we've still got to work on two then. So I want to deal with one, get it out of the way within ideally 10 to 16 weeks, is what I think is make sense for your size and for your goal, like if you lose eight pounds, you're like, you know what, I'm good with eight, great. And that's awesome, if you want to take a slower approach, it might be 15, 16 weeks, that's fine too. But get that goal out of the way. Then from there, that's when it's okay, now all I have to worry about is food noise and how do we make this more sustainable? Does that make sense? - That gives me so much clarity. It gives me so much clarity because even as you kind of voiced the two goals that I kind of stated, I thought you were going to say you should work on food noise first. - I think most people did. - Yeah, 'cause I've been so focused on the weight loss and I'm like, I know how to be in a calorie deficit and lose the weight, maybe it'll be easier if I start with the food noise, but you're right. Without me losing that weight first, that noise is, it's like the shadow that's over me all the time. - Yes. - If I can just lose that, then it's like, okay, I'm at a place where now I can work on the noise. - Correct, correct, that's exactly right. - Yes, clarity because I think, you know, it's hard when you have two goals like that and they're kind of clashing, right? And so it's hard to focus on just one and I think I need to be like, okay, you know what? I'm aware, I have this food noise or this clutter in my head, but just kind of put that aside while I can focus on this deficit and being consistent, getting my calories, protein, fiber, like just dedicate to that focus on that once I get to my goal, which I think I would be okay, even at 10 pounds from here, you know? I'm not saying that's gonna be my end goal, but just to get to a more comfortable place, I think I would be good with 10. And then there I can start focusing on, okay, why is this such a struggle for me, right? That's kind of where you're going. Okay, that's a lot of sense. And you're 100% right and the truth is when you go into a calorie deficit and you're trying to lose weight, there will inherently be more food noise. Like it will be there when you are deliberately reducing calories and you are getting hungrier and it is more, and you're thinking about it more, then inherently you're gonna think about it more and you'll have more food noise. So if we can get that out of the way in eight, 10, 15 weeks and then that goal is out of the way, then we can increase to maintenance calories and then start to work on improving relationship with food. Now, I think that through this process, you still can improve your relationship with food, but even during the deficit, you can still do that. It's just, you can prioritize it and focus on it once you've lost the weight that you're more comfortable with. - Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense, actually. I think that clarity is what I was kind of missing. I'm trying to focus on both things and that's hard, especially with everything else that's going on in my life too, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when you had mentioned about, when we first chatted on Facebook in that live, you had said, oh, that's good. It sounds like you're very controlled, even though they're impulsive. I'm like, yes, I'm the queen of making food. - I will, again, I don't know where I heard it. It wasn't as some somewhere. It's like food Tetris, tractors where you, it's like, okay, you kind of adjust so that things fit. I can do that, no problem. I'll be like, okay, this is my calorie limit. I'll just make sure I eat a little less dinner or all things in perspective, right? If I have, I'm not gonna eat like half an ounce of chicken just to be, 'cause that's all. - Some days you're gonna go over your calories. It is what it is, but that makes a lot of sense, Jordan. I think that's what I was looking for. I know how to be controlled with all of that. I think I just need to put my focus where I need to right now, which is goal number one. Let's hit that goal, and then we go into goal number two. - Correct, and this is why we take that macro look, right? It's like when you're asking about the impulsive eating, which is, it's a symptom, right? And if we don't clarify your goals and have a plan to get your goals, then you'll always keep reverting back to that symptom, and you'll never be able to fix it. So first, if we can, okay, let's lose these 10 pounds, then we can go into this, and then we can start addressing the food noise. Well, once you lose the 10 pounds, you can increase your calories towards a maintenance level, which should inherently reduce food noise a little bit, and then we can start being a little bit more relaxed with it and start having being more aware of, okay, this is what I'm eating, and here's another scenario that might happen, Reena. And this is where this is a lifelong journey, right? There's not like an end to this. I'm not saying this is going to happen. I'm saying this might happen. What might happen, Reena, is, and this is one of many scenarios. You might lose 10 pounds, and then you might go into maintenance, and then you might be like, you know what? I've still got a little bit more food noise than I want. Maybe I'm gonna gain five pounds and see how it is there. And you might gain five pounds back deliberately, and scarily you might be worried about it, like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna gain five pounds. And then you get those five pounds, and you increase your calories more in maintenance, 'cause you can do that now. And you might be like, this feels better. Now, like, I can have a few of these snacks. I can reach for the food here, and it doesn't really bother me. And I'm not as lean as I maybe would like in my ideal, but I can have this cheese and cracker with my daughter, and it's not a big deal, and I don't work. Like, that is a very real possibility. I'm not saying it's gonna happen, but what I am saying is, that's what's nice about first we attack goal number one. You get there, then we can reevaluate, and then we can go towards goal number two. And then once you're in goal number two, then you can figure out ways to adjust. But it's just important to know that there are many things that can happen, and you might get to lose these 10 pounds and be like, great, I feel awesome, increase my calories, I'm gonna stay here, and progressively work to decrease that food noise. Or something else can happen, either way, knowing that you have so much more freedom from here, and that the scale should not be in control of your mood, of the scale should definitely not be in control of your decisions at this point either. What should be in control of your decisions is your health, your happiness, your family life, your influence on your children. These are really should what be determining your decisions, and I'll tell you what, let's just say you lose the 10 pounds, and you're like, you know what, I'm gonna gain five pounds back, see if that helps with the food noise, which is a legitimate thing to do if you decide to, and we can talk about it then if you want. I guarantee you, your daughters would rather have some cheese and crackers with you five pounds heavier, than not have cheese and crackers with you five pounds lighter. I guarantee that. - Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. Especially like, you know, my middle schooler, I'm sure she hears it and sees it at school, you know? - Yes. - And then to come home and also have to see it and deal with it at home, instead where she can just be in a more relaxed environment where she doesn't see me being so crazy and obsessed about everything. Like, oh, I can't have this, or I can't do this, you know? Like, it just saying it helps me to even feel more at ease. - Good, that's very happy, that makes me very happy. How do you feel at this point? Do you have any questions about what the next steps are? Like, how do you feel? - No, you know, I feel a lot more at ease. I feel like I have clarity, I know what I want to focus on. And I think, you know, everything happens for a reason, right? - Yes, even the last time I was so focused on losing weight, I didn't actually even have a goal weight. I was like, I just want to lose some of the weight that I gained. And when I got, when I after I lost it, I just kind of continued that deficit for six months and I ended up losing more weight without even putting a lot of effort into it. I was like, this is so easy. Like, how did I struggle with this for so long? It just, it felt so natural and easy. But I think it's because the habits I developed were so good, you know, and it became a part of my lifestyle. But I didn't know how to maintain it. I just knew how to continue to lose. As soon as life got kind of crazy, I kind of reverted back to old habits and I now realize I didn't develop the skills I needed to maintain the weight. And I think this time when I go back and think about what happened where I did gain some of the back, now I know I have a plan to lose it and then I want to really figure out the whole maintenance step. And I think part of maintenance is gonna be working on that second goal of the food noise. And, you know, maybe I do end up gaining five pounds and it gives me a little bit more flexibility in my diet, which is okay because when I go in with the plan of I'm okay gaining five pounds versus before it wasn't, I wasn't making an effort to gain weight. It was just bad habits that kind of piled up that caused me to lose or gain the weight. It's gonna be very different this time where I am making a conscious effort to be like, okay, here I am at a, you know, whatever weight. If I gain five more pounds, it's a little bit more methodical and it's a little bit more, you know, and part of my personality is I do like planning things and having a little bit of control over certain aspects of my life. I think I'll feel a little bit better. And let's say I'm in the process of gaining those five pounds and I'm like, I don't like how I feel. I know what I need to do to take that off. That's exactly right. Once you know, you know, it's exactly right. - Right, it's not, I don't feel so out of control where I'm just like, oh my God, I'm just spinning and spiraling into this like, into all these old habits. Like, I do try really hard to remember. Like, you know what, you are not where you were before. But no, that gives me so much clarity and I just feel like I know what I need to do to move forward, you know. I just have to say, Jordan, like, when I asked you that question on our live, right, I thought you were just gonna give me like an answer. Or like, you did pause a little bit and I was like, oh my God, is that sent? Like, is that, is that question? Like, is that a dumb question? Like, I didn't know what you were gonna say. And then when you were like, you know what, let's just get on a call. I was like, oh my God, that's not where I thought it was gonna go, right? 'Cause I thought it was something that could be a very quick, like, oh, just do this, because of the strategy. I don't think I realized how much more there was to it. - Yeah, it's funny that you say that. - Oh, what I need to do now. - That makes me so happy. And I was literally, as you were talking, I was thinking like, man, you asked like a two sentence question and I know, they know part of your mind where you're thinking, I was gonna say, let's hop on an hour plus call and unpack this. But it was the, and you see, I don't know if you see the lives consistently or not, but like, I mean, I, most questions I can answer relatively quickly, occasionally. Like, I'll, I mean, I love doing these calls with inner circle members and stuff, but with a question like that, I knew there would be people who would also benefit from hearing this. And if I wanted to, I could have thrown out a cockamamie response and I said, yeah, just do this. But it really, if I had given you a way to deal with the impulsive eating, it wouldn't have actually helped long-term. We needed to come up with a plan. - The clarity that I have now would not have been accomplished in that one hour live. And I couldn't even stay for the whole live. I was like, so I live in California, so I'm two hours before. - Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Being my lunch hour, but, you know, I have my girls that I have lunch with at work. So Mondays I have my meeting, and then it's like, all right, let's go to lunch, you know? So I, this was the first live I had actually even been able to join. - I happen to remember, like, oh my gosh, and I thought it was actually Susan that did Fridays, 'cause again, I'm very new to IC, right? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I forgot, and I thought it was Susan. So I was like, oh, let's just see like what's going on. And I'm like, oh, it's Jordan. And it was, wait, it was a Monday, right? - It was a Monday, correct, yeah. - And so I was like, okay, you know what, this is something that I've been kind of struggling with. I'm just gonna throw it out there. You know, I'll just catch it later. So I do watch the lives, but I usually do the replays. Like I'll just listen to it on my drive home or something like that. But I was like, I'm here, let me just throw my question out. He'll just give me an answer. (laughing) That's what I was kind of thinking. Did not expect all of this to come from it, but I am so genuinely thankful, Jordan. Like honestly, like I see like, I'm not a big social media person, I used to be. And it was too much, again, it was too much noise, too much clutter, like always like look this way, buy these things, eat these things. And I was like, I need to stop. Like I don't have enough space in my head for all this. - I'm so proud of you for that. - Yeah, I put it aside. It was only gonna be a one month thing. It ended up being more than a year. And I am proud of you. I'm not super active on social media, you know. But I was like, you know, I know you're on Instagram. I know you're on YouTube. I do catch a lot of your YouTube content too, which I love. But you put so much work into Inner Circle. I didn't even realize like how much you put into it. And it's so clear like how much you genuinely care about helping people. And you know, your advice is so simple. It's so basic. It's so doable, right? It's like we get so convoluted with all these like supplements and workouts and diets, but like you don't need to do all that. You can, you can just do simple basic things and be happier. And honestly, I thank you because this was so like good for me. I needed this conversation. - Yeah. - And as nervous as I was, I'm like, I kept telling myself like, 'cause I've heard pretty much all of your podcasts. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. - I'm just a short Jewish dude. (laughing) It won't be nervous. And I even, I like texted my sister and I was like, well, my sister's part of the Inner Circle too actually. - Oh, that's amazing. - It's like the week after I did. And so she was just like, just think of what he always says. I'm just a short Jewish dude. (laughing) (laughing) - I love that. - You know, so yeah. - Tell her I say hello as well, by the way. - I know, she's also very busy lifestyle. You know, she works like crazy. She also has two girls. - Oh, that's amazing. - I know. And so we both, we don't usually join live because it's just, it's hard, but we do try to catch the replays. I know she has a lot of my similar sentiments and we have a lot of the same struggles too. - Yeah. - You know, I'm just so happy that you were able to give me this opportunity. I thank you for that. - Rena, the feeling is mutual. I am eternally grateful that you showed up to live, that you asked the question and that you were willing to hop on a call. And I know it can be very nerve-wracking and you've been so open and so honest. And I want, I'm so glad that this has been helpful to you. And just so you know, like I think this is gonna be helpful to literally thousands of other people, just so you know. And that's why I started the podcast in 2018 is to have conversations like this because so many of us struggle with the same thing and we feel alone. And so from the bottom of my heart, thank you for coming on and being open and willing to share. I appreciate you. I would love to keep up to date with how things are going. If you want to do a follow-up call within the next, I would say like three to six months, just to get an update on how you're doing. And if there are any obstacles you need help overcoming, I'd be more than happy to get another call with you. But thank you so much. If you and your family are ever in Dallas, you're always welcome at our home. We would love to meet you. But seriously, thank you so, so much, Rena. This has been wonderful. - I know Jordan, I loved it. Thank you, gosh, I almost forgot. We were like actually even, you know, I told Kat, Kat, I'm super nervous. And she was like, don't worry, Jordan is going to make you forget you're even recording. Like don't give me a bath. (laughs) - Good. - Love it, you, Susan, you know, Kat. And then, oh my gosh, Nini and your little girl is the cutest. I can't get enough of it. You guys are seriously, like I am very mindful of how much like social media content I take in. I follow very few people because I just don't want the noise. You know, you're one of the ones I follow. I follow Susan too. And it's just the content. It makes me laugh, first of all. So it's great. (laughs) One with the blonde wig. I haven't seen her. - Kenzie, I need to bring her, you know, it's funny. We, I was asking my wife in the last couple of months, I was like, I need to do some more wig stuff. And she, we're moving to a new house soon. So she packed, she packed my wigs and they're somewhere packed. And I just, I don't know where they are, but I literally, I might just order a new one off of Amazon. But yeah, Kenzie will come out when we've unpacked her. - Awesome. All right. I don't want to take too much of your time. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I still appreciate it. I will definitely keep you up to date. And I have a clear cut goal that I'm going to work towards. And thank you so much. - You're amazing, Marina. Thank you. Give your family my love and I'll talk to you soon. Okay? - Okay. Bye. Thank you. - Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]