(upbeat music) - Dan Rachos, Satio Shaw, we're here in the KinTech Studio, KinTech Central. KinTech's get the avalanche tomorrow. KinTech Canada's favorite orthotics provider powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Soarfeet, what are you waiting for at KinTech Central brought to you by enzyme-specific Vancouver's Premier Chrysler, Dodge Ram and Jeep Superstore on Second Avenue between Canby and Maine, or at enzyme-Pacific Chrysler.ca. We now start to preview the KinTech's and avalanche with our next guests, John Michael Liles, analyst for Altitude TV. The hotline is brought to you by dispatch plumbing, heating and air conditioning. The first call, the only call. Thanks for this, John, how are you? - I'm good, I'm good, thanks for having me. - Yeah, thanks for making time for us. So, the deadline was pretty exciting for the Colorado Avalanche to make a couple of big moves. How's it look so far? - Well, you know, I mean, they've had a pretty small sample size thus far, but I think the moves addressed, you know, some of the things that they needed. And, you know, since Northern Caudrey left that second line center hole has just been tough to fill, and they tried to do it with Ryan Johansson, unfortunately that wasn't, you know, that didn't work out, I think, as well as they had hoped. But other than that, I mean, you know, the middle stat trade, it's tough to give up by them, but you got to get to get. And, you know, you get middle stat, you get a legit second line center. And I just think slotting in behind Nathan McKinnon is gonna do a lot of really good things for him. And you added some depth up at the forward position and then adding Walker on the back end. You know, not quite as offensive, I would say, as Byron, but, you know, just all in two-way defense. And so it really liked the moves that Chris McFarland and his staff made. - What does it do in a room when, you know, your GM goes out and makes as many moves as the Avalanche did this year to really bolster their chances of going after a second Stanley Cup with this group? - Well, I mean, I think it just, you know, it raises the spirits and it shows that management's all in as well, you know, not just the players. And, you know, a lot of times, you know, whether you acknowledge it or not, you know, when you're near the top of the standings, you're sitting there and you're like, okay, all right, what are we gonna do? How are we gonna get better? And, you know, the guys in the room know as well as, you know, everybody in the stands, you know, what needs to be addressed? And so when management goes out and makes those trades, and let's be honest, I mean, Colorado's in a win now scenario. When you have Nathan McKinnon at the top of his game, you have Kaama Carr at the top of his game and you've got that surrounding calf. It's a win now scenario for them over the next four to five years, I would say. And so you've got to take those shots. And, you know, Joe Sake and Chris McFarland are not afraid to do that. And I think there was a couple of years there early on that, you know, it was do we or don't we? And, you know, 2022 was that first year, really, that they said, all right, we're going for it. And now you can see that, you know, they believe in this group. They've obviously won a Stanley Cup a couple years ago. And so they're, you know, they're going to try and give them the best shot that they can with those trades. - We knew that the abs needed to address their bottom six and their forward depth. And they've done done so very aggressively. I mean, they signed Zach Parisi a little while back, but then traded for Brandon Duhame, Yakov Trenen, and obviously Casey Middlestadt. Does that forward group looks nice and settled? Now, I mean, it's going to take some time to get all the guys up to speed in terms of chemistry, but is that sufficiently done in terms of upgrading the forward group? - I think so. I mean, you know, Zach Trenen is just a great veteran. And, you know, you know exactly what you're going to get from him. You know that he's going to go to the front of the net. He's going to be battling, you know, he's smart. You can put him on a penalty kill if you want. And, you know, he's still got some gas in the tank. I think they've been happy with him. And when you bring in Duhame, I think, you know, the Duhame trade, I think some people asked, you know, maybe where he was going to slot in right away. Well, Logan O'Connor going down with season ending surgery, I think answered that question. I think they saw the writing on the wall there and knew they had to address it. And that's tough because that third line of Ross Colton, Miles Wood, and Logan O'Connor was really, really good together. Now, when they played together, and I mind you with the injuries and moving guys up and down the lineup earlier in the season, they didn't always play together. But Logan O'Connor going down definitely hurts, but I think Brandon Duhame fills a nice role. They definitely got, you know, a little bit grittier on those bottom six with Duhame and with Trenton. And that's what you need in the playoffs. And when you look at some of the moves that some of these other teams made, and, you know, I just look at, you know, Florida, how, you know, how deep they are, how gritty they are, I think this definitely answers, you know, some of the moves made by other teams around the league. How much does that grit or how much is it needed in the playoffs, you know? Just what, what, for us, you know, average people that haven't played professional hockey, John, but just how much does that intensity pick up in the postseason? - It picks up a ton and, you know, you hope that a guy like, I mean, the one guy that I think the big question mark is Gabe Lannisterg. You know, he's been skating, you know, there's a lot of different information out there. If there's a way that Gabe Lannisterg can get back, I mean, not only is there bottom six look great in terms of grit and speed, but they're top six. I don't know that there's a top six in the NHL that necessarily can compete with that top six. If Gabe Lannisterg comes back and is moving well, and, you know, their speed, when you add Lannisterg, they've got grit, they got size. And so, yeah, I mean, it makes a huge difference to come play off time because every inch is fought for so hard and, you know, it's a matter of, it's a matter of fighting for that in, you know, those inches and, you know, there's a guy that arguably wants it as much or, if not more, across from you each and every time. So, that grit, it's, you know, it's not always easy to find, but if you can find it and you can add that skill, you know, on the bottom six, you know, we always say, you know, top six when you, or getting into the playoffs and bottom six, and when you play off rounds. - Yeah, I mean, you know, especially with the way that top six is built, and, you know, well, we'll get to McKinnon here coming up in a bit in my car, but getting Valerian Nachuskin back a few days ago also seems to be a pretty big boost. And first and foremost, it was good to see him back after going into the program and dealing with whatever he's dealing with, and hopefully he can be good to go mentally and emotionally the rest of the season. But in terms of his on-nice performance, it seems like every year he gets better and better. I mean, he was on pace to put up what was a 90-point-year, 40-goal season at one point. It seems like he's getting better this season. - Yeah, he was on pace for his best-ever season. And I think that's just a comfort level for him. They went in a cup a couple years ago and getting that eight-year extension. You know, he's comfortable in Colorado. They sign him as a low-risk guy, you know, whatever, five years ago now. And he's panned out when you play. You know, not only does he have the size, but he has the skating ability. And that's what this Colorado Avalanche team is. They're a skating team. And so, when you add in that size and a guy that just seemingly has a work rate that never goes down, and you put him with guys like Nathan McKinnon or Mico Randon or, you know, any of that forward group or even K.L. McCar, hitting him with breakout passes, you know, it's, you can see why he's succeeding. He's bought in, yeah, he had, you know, some of the issues where he went into the program and it's good to see him back. And he's a guy that the ab need desperately. So, how would you have defended Nathan McKinnon? [LAUGHTER] Oh, man. [LAUGHTER] You know what? Just put your stick on his hip and hold on. Yeah, right, yeah, exactly. I probably would have just taken a penalty and said, hey, you guys can have the power play. I won't eat the minus. But, you know, I mean, he's a guy that she just, he could play any way you want to play. Like, if you want to play physical with him, not that I would have played physical with him, but he can be physical. He can take hits. He can give hits. There's not very often where Nate gets run over. And, you know, guys, I think guys underestimate just how strong he is. And not only, you know, just strength-wise, but on his skates. And so, a lot of times people come to hit him and it's almost like they, you know, they fall over because he's so strong. Man, but he can also play the skill game as you see each and every night. And so, for him, playoff hockey, it's like he thrives during playoff hockey. And he's having, you know, the best season of his career, which, you know, is definitely needed in terms of, you know, the second-line center, you know, position was still kind of up in the air. And guys like nutrition and land of stock have been out for good portions of the year. And, man, he just seems to bring it each and every night. For me, I might have backed in on my goaltender and just, you know, deferred to him on the save. But it can't be too wide or, you know, shoved out of the way. But that's, you know, that's just me. Yeah, ultimately, I mean, when you've got 111 points, it's more about containing the player than anything else, right? And I think that's what most teams try to do. And Rick Talkett mentioned it a little bit today when he spoke with media here in Vancouver. And basically said, you know, we got to keep guys above the puck and make sure that they don't get speed through the neutral zone. Like guys like McKinnon and McDavid, that's where they really kill you. So defending Nathan McKinnon, it's not one thing. It's got to be, it's ultimately a team effort. Yeah, 100%. And I mean, it's cliche as it sounds. It is a team effort. You have to have guys back checking on them because it allows your defense man to stand up and have that extra layer of coverage. And I had talk when he was an assistant coach in Colorado in 0304 and so he's a real good buddy of mine. So those guys are familiar with Nate. You know, they understand obviously the game and the best way to contain like guys like that. And I mean, you know, the crazy thing is, teams have been putting two and three guys on them for a good portion of the year. And it just seems like if that happens, you find the open guy every time. And you know, it's a two-on-one or a great eight-scoring chance. And that's just the level that Nate's playing at right now. You mentioned Adam, foot and Rick Talkett and you're familiar with both guys. And it's very clear, they do a tremendous job of relating to the players and getting the most out of those guys. What makes them so effective at doing things like that? Well, I mean, listen, like they both played for a long time. You know, Talkett's got experience not only, you know, as an assistant coach but as a head coach. And so, you know, I think with footy too, footy just, I mean, he understands the game. He just thinks the game. I mean, you don't play that long for both of those guys without just really understanding. Not gonna say X's and O's, but the subtleties within the game. And in the end, especially today and today's game, you have to be able to communicate with players and you have to make them feel like, I don't wanna say that you're on their level but you understand where they're coming from and you have to be able to speak in a way that they're, you know, that's understanding from there. And I think both of those guys do it in a really good way. You know, they both are passionate about the game of hockey, have been in it for a long time. And they're playing career speaks for itself. So, you know, if somebody ever has a question, it's not, you know, you can go right to your assistant coach or right to your head coach and really get, I think, a quality response from those guys. And they're both tremendous people too. I mean, Adam Fuss, you know, just an amazing, amazing guy, you know, one of a kind and really down to earth and very, very funny. - We have yet to meet any somebody that's either been coached by, played with or played against Rick Talkett that dislikes the man. It's unbelievable. Like the search has been going on for over a year now and it's just like, doesn't exist. Even guys, he beat the snot out of seem to like it's weird. - Yeah, exactly. - He's that kind of a guy. But it's, you know, it's been unreal for the Canucks. And, you know, one thing we've definitely seen is how Quinn Hughes has really taken over. And it's him and Macar for the Norris this year, right? Like everybody's talking about it. It's a race that we're watching down the stretch here. But, you know, having that one guy on the back end that can just control the pace of a game when they've got, when they're on the ice, it just, it makes the world a difference for everybody else. - Yeah. Yeah, it really does. And Quinn's been so impressive. And I mean, I hate to date myself, but Jim Hughes worked for the Maple Leafs when I was playing there. And Quinn was not very old which makes me feel old watching him play every time. But it's amazing to see just what type of player he's turned into. I mean, we all knew about the skill, but just the way that he controls a game and him and Kale on the ice, you know, against each other in games. Like it's just, it's a privilege to watch those two and the way they're able to control the game from the back and because it's not an easy thing to do. And, you know, the vision, the skating, you know, now it's just, it seems like Quinn's very comfortable in his skin and his role. And I think that, you know, makes a world a difference. And I would say part of that is Adam Foote and Rick Talkett and just allowing him to, you know, to understand who he is as a player and then to really just step into that and not be afraid to be that player each and every night. - Yeah. And I think one of the things we're seeing this year too in terms of Quinn taking that other step and the connects in some ways perhaps took a page out of the Colorado Avalanche book. And that is pairing Quinn Hughes with the higher end defenseman like Phillip Pironic, which is much like how the abs have Kale McCar with Devon Taves. And I think usually we kind of think of things kind of in the classical way Puckmover with the more stay at home defenseman type. But I think both cases show that if you put two guys together that can compliment each other's game, but are both Puckmovers, it's like that pairing that can go supernova. - Yeah, it really is. And, you know, in the end too, I think they understand each other a little bit more. Yeah, that Puckmover with a stay at home defenseman. You know where he's going to be. But I think a lot of times the Puckmover with a Puckmover is you know where that Puck's going to be even before it goes off your partner stick and you can anticipate that. And Puck possession being such a huge part of today's game. When you have Puckmover with a Puckmover and they're both high end defenseman and you can get them with high end forwards and get the Puck to those forwards, especially with a guy like Nathan McKinnon who can pull up and find that second layer. You know, it just opens up so much more and it allows you to control the game more when you have that Puckmover session and you can both as defenseman make that first breakout pass. Even if it's, you know, I don't want to call it high risk, but even if it's a tougher pass because you're both so adept at moving the Puck. - Well, in some ways, I guess if you go more traditional in the postseason, especially, you kind of become a bit easier to defend against, don't you? 'Cause then you kind of, you really know where to funnel the play and kind of try to lock a pairing down if you know when it's going to have a harder time in certain situations, right? - Yeah, I mean, that could definitely be the case. You know, it's easier stuff than done, I think, sometimes. - Yeah. - Yes, I mean, when you know that a guy's not necessarily a Puckmover and he's probably going to go glass and out, then yeah, there's definitely ways to corral that. And, you know, in the end, it's, you know, relying upon your forwards to go chase it down and get a good forecheck. Now, you know, glass and out isn't, you know, isn't the worst thing at certain times. But when you have guys that can make passes like Quinn Hughes and Campbell Carr and Devontes and Philip Ronik, I mean, it's just, it makes the game so much easier for your foreword because you know that Puck's coming on your cape nine times out of 10. - Yeah, I know, before we let you go, I know you played with early career Elias Linholm in Carolina. - Yeah. - He was the big acquisition of the Canucks trade deadline sweepstakes. He hasn't really scored much to yet for Vancouver, but we've really noticed his two-way ability and his two-way IQ. What do you remember of him as a teammate? - Well, first of all, I nicked in him the Swedish beast in Carolina, so feel free to throw that out to him if you talk to him. I sure he'll get a good chuckle. - Swedish beast. - Swedish beast. So, you know what, he, I mean, tremendous two-way player. You know, when he gets rolling, he can score in bunches and we've seen it at different times with Calgary and I think Carolina, you know, for me, I think it's, you know, sometimes you just gotta get comfortable in new scenarios and new situations and different teammates. And, you know, he's a very, very smart player, very strong, just a guy that, you know, when his shot is on, I mean, it's very tough to defend as a defensive and for a goaltender. So, it wouldn't shock me if he starts going here soon, just knowing him and his abilities. - Hey, John, really appreciate the time and your insights. We'll see you tomorrow here in Vancouver. - All right, thanks a lot, guys, take care. - There he is. John Michael Lyles joining us here on Canucks Central and covering the Avalanche for Altitude TV now, of course, former NHL defensemen played with Elias Lindholm in Carolina for Lindholm's first three years of his career when he wasn't much of a scorer back then early in his career, but that blossomed later on in Calgary. - Yeah, and hopefully his offensive game blossoms in Vancouver here at some point, but he's been really good defensively. And it's not like there's no bottom line, like, you know, he does have seven points, he has four goals, but there's more there in his game, but it's also the role he's playing now. - Yeah. - Like how much offense can you ask of him when he's, you know, essentially the third line center and Garland's a good teammate, of course, but it's more of a matchup line too in some regards and they get put into tough situations on defensive zone draws as well. So it's not like you can expect them to go out there and be this, you know, high powered offensive line, but there's still some offense I think he can still provide. - And still waiting to see him get added on to the power play because, I don't know, like Connor Garland's top power play unit, not quite doing it for me just yet. - No, Connor Garland is on that front presence. I know he like chested it down to Pedersen the other night. - That's also very generous, calling that a chest down. - Okay, the puck just hit him. - It did, and he was like writhing in pain. - But Pedersen scored, so he got, I guess he got the assist on it. - Yeah, right. - Touch the puck. - Stopping Nathan McKinnon is, yeah, it's maybe a fool's game. Now he's got 111 points and 65 games. - That's scary. It's remarkable how much scoring has ticked up in the National Hockey League, but also, you see the skill of these top guys, like McKinnon, McDavid, and Kucharov. It's absolute bonkers. But the way McKinnon has played this year, he's scored a point in every single home game to this point of the season. It's good that the Canucks have him at Roger's Arena this time around. But that last game, the Canucks did hold McKinnon off of the score sheet until they scored in the empty net to ice the game. And when they've played McKinnon, they've been able to slow him down a little bit and make sure that he doesn't pick up speed through the neutral zone and do those crazy things where you really get defenders on their back heels and in a real difficult spot to defend, that's ultimately the key against McKinnon. Now you're not gonna stop him, more often than not, he's still going to burn you, but it's something the Canucks have been pretty good at is being able to slow teams down through the neutral zone. When they've been on their defensive goals. - Yeah, now the thing with Nathan McKinnon and Kiel McCar, they're both cheat codes. So you can do everything right, and then they can still find ways to generate speed and either cut through you or go around you, right? So that can still happen. And when they do that, you just have to tip your cap to them, but you're right. The Canucks have shown an ability to slow those types of teams down. They're gonna have to do it in a big way, right? - But man, Colorado, when the Chewskin's going to, they have a lot of speed and size up front. Like, I think John is right. Nathan McKinnon does not get enough credit for how powerful he is, 'cause he's six foot 200 pounds, but he's like, he comes at you with so much force and speed and sheer power that doesn't matter that he's not as big as some guys, so he'll still like bowl you over and get through you. Like he needs to really go around in the corners too, like he's a really strong hockey player. - He looks like a bull. - He does, he really does. And then you have-- - Not skating around you, like I would imagine if you're trying to defend him, it feels like he's going to go through you. - That's what it feels like, I'm sure, 'cause with the speed he generates too, and he's so aggressive with how he plays, the Chewskin's somewhat similar too, with his size and his ability to be straight forward. Ranton is an absolute house. - Yep. - And those are like your three best forwards. - And Laconan is also pretty sturdy as well. - Yeah, like they're a very hard team, like, so it's not just about in transition. Once again, to the offensive zone too, with that size, they're really hard to play against. So it's good the Canucks do have some size on the back end to contend with those types of players. - It's Dan Richo and Sati Arshah. I guess the other conversation going into tomorrow night's game against the abs is the Norris one, right? Quinn Hughes versus Kale McCar. Now it's obviously not a direct head-to-head match up, but to this point of the season, you know, McCar and the abs have had the upper hand on the Canucks, could this be their chance to get one back? I mean, look, it's going to be neck and neck all the way to the end of the season, and depending on, you know, if you were to get 100 NHL writers to vote on it right now, feels like Quinn Hughes has the slight edge on Kale McCar, but that can change here through the final third of the season. It's Canucks Central coming back, we're going to have Irfan Gefar his take on the Canucks deadline, and what else is coming down the corridor for this franchise? That's next on Canucks Central. Big opinions and good bets. It's the People Show with Big Nizar. Be sure to subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) We're back into the Kintech Studio, Dan Reicho, Satyar Shaw. Hour number two of the program, Kintech, Canada's favorite orthotics provider, powered by thousands of five-star Google reviews. Soarfeet, what are you waiting for? Let's bring in our next guest who joins us every Tuesday. Canucks insider, it is Irfan Gefar. What's happening, Irfan? - What's going on, fellas? How we doing? - We're waiting on the Seahawks to make some free-agent signings, much like we were waiting on the Canucks to make trades on Friday. - Yeah, well, it doesn't look like either. It's probably going to happen. I don't know what the Seahawks are going to do. The only thing is all these NFL teams have so much money now. Like from what is the salary stuff that they got with the cap going up and everything. And Seahawks is still about nothing. - Yes. Now, they are the most cautious team in NFL free-agency. - So you tell me it wasn't Pete Carroll, who was the reason they were not never doing anything? I guess not. - No, it definitely wasn't. You've heard of owners and they're not in certain leagues, just kinda pinching their pennies a little bit. I think that's what the Seahawks are doing right now. (laughs) - Yeah, it's possible. All right, so on the Canucks though, Sat and I have obviously discussed it quite a bit. How surprised were you Friday when they didn't get any additions across the line? Even Patrick Levine, he sounded, when we spoke to him, he sounded a little bit disappointed that they weren't able to get anything done. - He said they were in on pretty much everyone, but there wasn't that much quality out there. There was a lot of quality out there that would have made you third and fourth line better. - I think that's very evident. And a lot of us really do can agree with that a little bit. I think the costs for the Canucks may have been higher than it was for other teams to be completely on it. Nobody maybe wanted to play ball with the big dogs out in the West. Acquisition costs are probably too high, the Canucks don't have the assets that they wanted to part with. Now, I'm not saying that they should have traded a holdlander or whatever, but at least look at some of the picks that you had down the road and you see what some of these guys went for. I mean Winnipeg was able to get New Jersey to retain 50% of Tyler to fully salary. And the only guy in the only give up two picks to get them. So if Patrick Levine said they were in on a lot of these guys and a lot of these players and having different conversations and still had nothing to show for after it, that's kind of disappointing. I think if you're a fan, I know they went out and made their big splash and got Lynn home. Obviously, in the beginning, things didn't work out and we'll see now what happened to your down the stretch run a little bit. But that was a big acquisition. I was just kind of disappointed. I think a lot of people feel like that a little bit disappointed that they didn't go out and do something else. - Well, it's clear they really wanted to land if they could a top six player. And I think they felt they were close on something. I would guess what they felt they were close on was a Tofoli deal. Like how close do you think Tofoli got to being a Canucks? - I think it was pretty close. I think it was Vancouver. I think Nashville was involved as well. And then obviously Winnipeg ended up just making it work in the early hours in the morning and things like that. So it was an interesting one because I believe that Tofoli thought it was Vancouver or Nashville. And when it kind of just came out of left field. - Yeah, and I think part of it was, and this was kind of a lot of deals for Vancouver. They needed a third team, right? And New Jersey maybe didn't want to do all of that. And maybe it cost a little bit extra on deadline day to get a third team involved, whatever it may have been. You know, the Canucks salary situation, salary cap situation worked against them on deadline day and trying to make some of these moves. - Yeah, but like if you look at it right now, I know that they beat the Winnipeg Jets very handily at home on Saturday night. But like, is this Vancouver Canucks team better than it was before the deadline? Like did they do enough to improve? Or you look at this team right now and say, okay, you know, we can take our chances and we really like what we have here heading into a playoffs and we believe that we're deep enough to make a run. I don't know if I'm comfortable saying that. - Well, I think Lindol makes them better. We haven't seen it on the score sheet so much, but. - Yeah, but after that, but he was there. You see came to the Canucks on January 31st. - Yeah. - Yeah, but they made that deal earlier, right? - Yeah, but they did. I mean, they could have waited and made that deal, but they made it earlier 'cause it wanted to give him more time to get acclimated with a roster too, right? - I still think that there was another move and the fan base. And I think that the Canucks, you know, some of the players did deserved it as well. One more move, you know, just putting your team over the top if you could have done it. Now they didn't, obviously, things didn't work out and they really believe and we'll see what happens here. I mean, you take care of your opponents here and over the course of these next few games, you know, you're obviously looking really good. But, you know, to go into battle with some of these teams that beefed up, you look with Vegas, did you look what the Oilers did, you know, you look at, obviously, what the Winnipeg Jets did, what Dallas Stars did, you did teams that you're going to play against. They didn't even mention the color Ivelage or basically assembling an army, you know, to go into the playoffs, but it's just, you look at it and you're kind of just like, oh man, like really, the Canucks can do anything? - And I think, you know, obviously, we were talking about this too. If you could have added a top six player, it would have been great to do so. And I think if you add that guy, then they're pretty much right there with most of these teams. But I also think it's one of those years where, do you go above and beyond to add that player this year knowing that you still have Pedersen signed long-term? You have these other guys, you know, locked in long-term? Like, this isn't your one and done chance, right? So I also think, as much as, yes, I would love to see them do it. At the same time, if you're sitting in a position where you literally don't have a second round pick until, say, 2026, so you don't have a third until 2027, then you don't have a first. Like, at some point, you're giving away all your assets for the one run, and you're hoping that it's not just the one run you're gonna have with these guys. - Very fair, but why were we, when the Canucks traded Lindholm, sitting here talking to each other, saying that they're all in? - Yeah, but I see-- - We all said it. - Yeah, we all said it. - No, I think the all-in thing in the region, I were like debating this last week at some point. Like, I don't think they were ever truly all in. To me, truly all-in is like, you're willing to trade your top prospect. - And they never were willing to trade their top prospect. - Well, they gave up a lot for a guy that's-- - Yeah, no affair, no 100%. - I mean, like, I just like, you just were argument saying, I mean, I'm saying it, but, you know, this team really believes that they're there, and I agree with you on that. But you look at, this roster is obviously not gonna be the same in the summer, they got a lot of free agents. - Yeah. - You know, there's guys that are, you know, we might think that they wanna stay in B-Vancouver Canucks after this season because it's good and everything's great here, but, you know, when another team puts that dollar sign in front of them, that's a lot bigger than the Canucks, they're probably gonna go and take it. - Yeah. - Right, and I think that a lot of those things have to go into consideration. Like, there's one of the best teams on the National Hockey League, and they just smoked them when to pay jets. I know it was after the trade deadline, but I still think that, you know, there was a move that, you know, if there was a move that could have been made, I would have hoped that they would have at least tried to do something. - Well, to what Alveen mentioned, as you brought up off the top, you know, there wasn't a ton of quality out there. I think what he was essentially getting at was like, there was Genssel and there was Tifoli, and beyond that, like, we didn't really see anybody else worth paying a big price for, and, like, with Genssel, unless they put Lekor and Mackie or Willander in the deal, I don't think they were ever gonna get close to Carolina's offer in Pittsburgh's eyes. - Okay, but, yeah, 100%, but that aside, what about your third and fourth line? - Yeah. - Like, I know Mikayo's playing up in the lineup, but when he doesn't, he's not producing in the bottom 6/4 group, you know, you're gonna go into a playoff game with a guy that hasn't scored in 50 games, right? I mean, look, I'm just saying, like, I-- - What do you have, six shots on that the other night? He's gonna get one soon. - Yeah, then one of them go in? - No. - No. - You know, 25 shots, one of them goes in, and still doesn't count. - It's fair, you know, like, they definitely, they could have upgraded a little bit more around the edges, you know, a guy we talked about, Alex Barabana of, you know, I mentioned this yesterday. - But a guy has four goals. - No, he's got three goals, but-- - Three goals, sorry. - Again, even less. (laughs) We're talking about bottom six guys anyways, right? Like, how much do they truly move the needle? I think-- - We're going. - The idea that they were going after most was, hey, if we add a top six forward, that improves our bottom six because it's pushing somebody down from our current top six into our bottom six forward group. - I just think that it was a little bit of a mess that nothing ended up happening, to be honest. - Yeah. - Now, as far as we're things are at with the other top defense in Phillip Hironic, Patrick Alvin who was on with us last week or mentioned to us that they put an offer out to Phillip Hironic, and it's a long-term deal we believe and we believe he says he believes is a fair contract offer. The question is, does Phillip Hironic and his can't believe that contract offer is fair? - What do we think? - In the $54, $55 million range, something around there? - Yeah, my guess was anywhere from $52 to $54 somewhere there, like $55. - On an eight-year deal, so that's what, $6.25 a year? - No, $6.5 up to $6.75. I think, you know, I think whatever the Canucks were offering kept that AAV between $6.5 and under seven. Like, somewhere in that, that would be my guess, right? - I mean, if the ask from their camp is eight, was eight or will be eight, and the Canucks came in and said, what they believe is a fair offer at, you know, six point something or whatever it is on an eight-year deal, then, you know, there's a lot of negotiating that needs to happen. I don't know, I'm not signing Phillip Hironic for over $7 million this season. I just don't think you can. I don't think he can carry his own pair. - Yeah, not a top pair, at least. - Well, he is a seller. - No, absolutely not. And if you're, if you're getting paid $7 million, you know, you're a top pair guy. - Yeah, and he hasn't had to show that this year. - No, because he's quite new to making everyone money. - Yeah, like, I think-- - But he was just getting everybody paid on this team. - Like, we even mentioned it. - When you got Luke's shed paid. - Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, he's gonna get guys paid. And to be fair to Phillip Hironic, it wasn't like he wasn't productive. Even before, the reason Detroit ended up trading him was they knew his number would be big because of his production. And they already have Maurice Sider as a righty defenseman playing those big minutes and on the first unit power play. So they probably felt like we can't pay this guy what he probably wants. And that could be the same situation here for the Canucks. And that's what's fascinating is he the type of guy that wants to go out and max every single dollar or is he happy being somewhere where he fits in? They have a chance to win and clearly can play the type of hockey that makes it fun and exciting for him. - I think if you have a chance to go and get your money, you're gonna go and do that. - But how much can he truly make? I know I heard the number, you know, Dolly Wall mentioned today that's been thrown out there, eight and a half, you know, start gotch of money. And I guess it could happen, but I just don't know if he's viewed like that around the league. Like, does he truly agree? - I agree, but teams are crazy. Like, watch in the summer, watch a team offer Lindholm, like stupid money, like eight and a half, maybe nine. Like, you know, there are teams out there that are willing to pay big bucks for these players. Now, obviously with the Vancouver Canucks, they want to get something done before. Ronik, you know, I'm the belief that, you know, he wants to be a Vancouver Canucks, but he's also wants to get paid. Like, he deserves these things that he should be paid for Lindholm, the Canucks agree with that, obviously remain to be seen. - There's just, we talk about this all the time, right, Chad? The Fencemen just don't really exist, right? - Nope. - In the National Hockey League. I mean, they do, but they are very scarce. They are like spice and dune. It is very hard to come. - Well, it's like we talk about, if you're not willing to spend a high draft pick on a right of the Fencemen, if you're not willing to trade a high price or acquire one, if you're not willing to spend money on one in free agency, you're never going to get them. - Yeah. - Like, you're not going to get right of the Fencemen, like, unless you literally pull a rabbit out of you, you know what? - Well, and that's Alan Walsh in Philip Ronik's card to play is like, well, you know, cool that you think this is what I'm worth, but also like go find another guy like me. - Yeah, it's a hard part. - And you look at it, Chad, like what you just said, I mean, they did give up, you know, the hydraulic to get them. And now, because they have them, they're going to have to pay them to keep them. - Yeah. Or, you know, they could move the player if the price gets out of hand. - Yeah, there are a couple of guys, right? I mean, there is like, Tannab's a free agent, Pesh is a free agent, can you get somebody to bridge until Willand was ready in a couple of years? Right? Like, there is a way to play this. - No way, Ronik's. - Like, to be completely honest, I think someone could pay Chris Tannab 5 million a year. - I mean, what if you trade, yeah. - I don't think that should be the garage. - I don't disagree, but let's say for instance, the connects don't want to pay her own 8 million. Let's say he says, "I want 8 million hell or high water, "I'm not staying." And the connects say, "Well, we got to trade you then." - Yeah. - Well, you can do a, could you not, would you bite and take the bite and just give Tannab, state 4.75 over three, or something, get close to it? - Ooh. - And then-- - Sorry, you cut out? - No, so would you give Tannab, say 4.75, if you trade, if you have to move Ronik to try to get him to come here for a couple of years? - I don't know, I think when you look at it, like you're going to need another, you're going to need someone to help onto that second parent, right? Or you think that Tannab is going to come and play with Hughes? - Yeah. - You still need a number three and four defense men. And one of them got to be good. I know you have Susie, but you're going to need another guy there too. - Well, and Tyler Myers is also an unrestricted free agent. - That's an interesting one too, right? 'Cause if he really wants to stay here, they really want to make it work. Like how low is he willing to go? - Well, he's worth $4 million at least on the open market. - Yeah, like is he willing to take 275, three times two, five times three maybe? - That would be a huge bargain. - Yeah, I just don't know. And I think that, like, I mean, like I said before, like teams are going to overpay for some of these guys. You look at the free agent class right now, heading into this free agency period, like, there's not a lot. - Like Patrick Alving said, a lot of quality. - Right shot defenseman that are unrestricted free agents this summer, Brandon Montour is the highest scoring one. He's got 25 points. Tyler Myers is number two, at 23. - There you go. - Those are the guys that are hitting set to hit free agency. I bet Montour doesn't even get there. So you're living in a world where Tyler Myers is going to be the highest scoring right shot defenseman in unrestricted free agency this summer. And I know he's 34, but like, you know, it's to live in a world where he gets three million bucks. Like that would be, that would be a great hometown discount for the Canucks. Now I know both, like Myers wants to stay in Vancouver and there's at least some interest on the Canucks part to make it work. But again, it comes back to how much do you want to leverage into a guy that's 34 years old? Like that's a tough part of that question. - I mean, you know, well, you can kind of say the same thing about Chris Tannes. - Yeah. - Who's barely never played a full NHL season. And I know the story's great. And obviously, you know, it'll be awesome to have him back. I'm sure he would love to, but this is probably one of, if not the last contract for him. So why not go try and get your money if you can? - Yeah. And I mean, and the one thing too, that we saw last time around with all this is, I mean, honestly, I just think if you get to the point where you have to trade a top-end guy, would you be afraid of doing so, given what this management team has done and in terms of trying to replace guys? So I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if they make a big move. And as far as Myers goes, like we saw last time around that with the New York Islanders who were interested in him and he's just one of the sign in Vancouver, you could have probably squeezed out an extra year, maybe a bit more in the term last time around. So I think he's willing to play ball. My biggest question ultimately comes down to her own again. I just don't think they will be afraid of making a big move if they had to. Like, I don't think they're like, you know, previous management teams or other management teams around the league even where they say, we can't lose this guy. I don't think they operate that way. - If kind of wins the cop and dials is a big yes. Obviously, we don't know what's gonna happen down the road and obviously help-wise and things like that. Then I could see him looking at it and being like, okay, I've won, why don't I just go back now? - You watching an F1 race over there, what's going on? - No, some guys trying to do some fast and serious in the legal type of stuff here in like a Volkswagen Jetta or a golf or something. He used, I remember when I was 18. - Yeah, Fast and Furious days are back apparently. You know, the right shot D-market is super interesting. And you know, this summer is going to be like, I don't, as much as they've had a ton of success with this roster, given the amount of UFAs, you know, Brock being a year away from unrestricted free agency, there's still a wonder if they're completely sold on Connor Garland. Like it could still be a very busy offseason and a very different team we look at come September for next training camp. - Well, I think the playoffs are gonna tell a lot to management, no, obviously the families and to the players about, you know, what this team is. You know, you go, like this is your team. This is who you have now. You're obviously hopefully gonna, you know, get a very well-rested and healthy Dr. Demko as you enter the playoffs, but this is your team. So this is now gonna be obvious as much as you wanna play for a Stanley Cup and do all those things from management perspective. Yes, you wanna win, but this is an evaluation period too. To see who can perform in the playoffs at the highest level, what you can get out of some of these bottom six forwards and who you're really looking to bring back and maybe possibly on long-term contracts, right? You know who your core pieces are, but then you're obviously gonna know what you're missing and what you need more from, you know, as you head into the playoffs. Before we let you go, it's a players championship this weekend. Sawgrass, is there gonna be a hole in one on 17, the island green? There was three last year. We can bet on this, you know? Yeah, you can bet on it. How many tries for you to put it on the green and not on the water? Five balls. Five balls, I'm lucky if I get one. I am the golf me, like NASA should send me to Mars and I'll find water with a golf club. Yeah, I'm sculling one into the gallery, for sure. I'm sculling one five feet in front of me into the water, what am I gonna get there? Yeah, one's probably rolling off the back, you know, just to break my heart. That's the way it goes. Er, if you're the best, thanks for this. All right, gentlemen, do well. Ah, there he is. Er, fine, good far. Joining us on Knock Central. Dan Riccio, Satsy, our shop. Man, I can't believe golf season is here. It is pretty much here. Masters are like a month away. Yeah, I mean, the fifth major goes the players championship. Yes. Oh man, I just love Sunday at the players and guys in and around the top of the leaderboard are going to 17 and it should be like the easiest hole. Like a tour player, 135 yards. This is like, you know, money for them. And yet, so many times we just see them crumble. Yeah, it's difficult pressure. Pressure's a hell of a thing. It is. All right, a couple of thoughts there on what we talked about with Earth. And I know some of it kind of bled into the off season, but he was a little bit more critical of the Canucks not being able to get anything done at the deadline and upgrade their forward group, upgrade their back end, do something even beyond Genssel and Tifoli. Ultimately, I think we won't really get a great answer on whether or not the Canucks should have or needed to upgrade those areas once we get to the playoffs. Yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, I obviously wanted them to add a top six player, I think we all did, right? There was a price you have to pay to do it and sometimes you get priced out. You know, if this was a management team that had an inability to make trades and wasn't willing to pay a little bit extra at times to make deals happen, I would say, you know what? Like, did they try hard enough, did they do enough? But we know they're not afraid of doing those things. Like, I think them not getting their targets was a result of like trying their hardest and they just couldn't make it happen. And at any point, in any negotiation, whether it's a contract negotiation or trade negotiation, there has to be a line you don't cross. Yeah. There has to be a line at some point. You have to put a line somewhere and you can always shift that and say, well, why not give a bit more? If you always say that, then you never have a line. There has to be a line at some point, right? So I was stunned that they weren't able to make another trade, like I mentioned, but not because I don't think they were trying hard enough or that they didn't realize they needed to. I think they earnestly tried and what they wanted couldn't happen. And at that point, there weren't going to, you know, do some, like in terms of like bare ban off, for instance, like, are you going to facilitate a third team to get involved and give up a fourth round pick so you can get a three-goal winger to come into your room? No. Like, what are we talking about here, right? Like, I think if you have to consider those things, now if San Jose hadn't traded hurdle, yeah, for instance, right? And they would have traded you bare ban off and retained the salary for a seventh round pick. Sure, fill your boots, great, add the depth. But if that's not there for you, then what's the point in extending for? Not a meaningless player, but a guy, you're just kind of taking a chance on. Yeah. Like I said, the one, if you couldn't get a top six guy, could you have improved on Friedman? That's the one thing I wondered about. Obviously they didn't. And I know Taka today mentioned they like what Friedman's done too. I just wonder about the depth if you get past a 70. Yeah. Now that's a concern you have for a deep playoff run, but that's what we're hoping to see here, a deep playoff run. Text came in earlier from Trucker James. I offer Horonik seven years, 6.75 to 7.15. If he doesn't sign that a trade is negotiating rights for either a first or a second round pick or a tier two prospect, offer Myers three by three. That's from Trucker James. Yeah, somebody else texted into and said, the fact that Myers has been about two million overpaid for his time in Vancouver, does that mean he would take a bit less on his next contract? I don't think that's how it works, but I do think Myers is willing to play ball in Vancouver. I just don't think you're gonna be able to get him at like two million per season. No. And I thought at one point, you know, earlier this year that maybe 2.5 if they extend them, could you do that? But you look at the numbers, you look at the scarcity of the position, kind of looks to be three million. Yeah. And they paid E and Cole three million, right? Two C3.25. Yep. So I think three million over two to three years is the number. I don't feel comfortable more than two years. Yeah. Like you can talk me into, you know, two year extension for him, three million per season. Anything beyond that, I guess, squeamish. You know, there are a couple of other names in unrestricted free agency that are interesting. You know, Sean Walker is gonna get to UFA, it looks like Matt Roy is gonna get to UFA, by no means are they perfect players, but hey, they are guys that have done the job for pretty good teams and can play sort of those middle four type minutes on your back end. The other one that I think is interesting is Brett Pesche. I mean, he hasn't had a good year, but injured too. He's 29, he's never been a point guy. So like he's not gonna have a ton of points. He's only got 12 this year, three goals. But, you know, is that somebody that could be an option for the Vancouver Canucks in free agency? I, you know, like there is still some interesting names on the right shot D-market if you have to get super creative around being uncomfortable with what Philip Ronik is asking. For sure. But Brett Pesche, Roy, and Sean Walker are all 29 years old. Yeah. And you're probably having to give those guys at, I mean, at three years at the bare minimum, bare minimum. Yeah, it's probably five years. Four to five. Now maybe because Pesche, yeah, four to six even, I think that's kind of the frame. That's why ultimately it's best you work something out with Ronik. Yeah. 'Cause you're talking about giving, you know, a 20, a 26 year old, an eight year contract versus giving a 29 year old a six year contract. I know who I'd rather give the term to, right? But again, there's a number you can go past with Philip Ronik. And that's, you know, we discussed this at length. And, you know, for a few days and going back to last week, so when you need to rehash the numbers and everything, but that's why ultimately the best case scenario is they make it work. Yeah. 'Cause you're not upgrading on Philip Ronik. Yeah. You're not. No. You can look at it and say, well, the cap savings and getting somebody who's cheaper allows you to do other things in the assets. Yeah. Those things you can talk yourself into. You trade, Ronik, get a first round pick back and then you sign Brett Pesche, it's like, yeah. But you're not paying an NHL 24 year. Your second best defenseman next season, if you move Ronik, is not gonna be as good as Philip Ronik most likely. Yes, right. And I think that's ultimately something you don't want to see. But again, there's a price that has to work out. I just, you know, I think this might be one based on what we're hearing here with the Canucks saying they put a fair off route and, you know, Earth mentioned maybe it's anywhere from 52 to 55 million somewhere in between that, right? Which again, keeps it under 7 million per season. Yeah. Over eight years, that keeps it just under 7 million per season. Is Philip Ronik really debt set on getting 8 million plus? 'Cause I don't think that's happening in Vancouver. Like, I don't even think 7 point five. Honestly, even 7 to me. Like, I think the Canucks really want to keep it under 7. Yeah. Could they, you know, bite the bullet and get to 7, 7, 1 or something? Perhaps, I don't know. But I know for, I mean, I can't say for a fact 'cause nothing's, you know, a fact. Yeah. But I don't think they have any interest in getting anywhere near what Quinn Hughes is getting paid. Like zero interest in that per year. Which, for as good as Ronik has been, I think that's fair of the team to stand on that. That line. Die on that hill. Whatever it is that you'd like to use as the term because Philip Ronik, he's been very good this year for the Vancouver Canucks. But I could also make the case, he's been a complimentary player to Quinn Hughes. He is. He's, he honestly, he's a, to me, he's a really good number three defenseman who can probably handle his own pair on, if the pair is a second pair. Yeah. He can play with a top pair guy, but he's not somebody who's gonna be a linchpin on a top pair. Yeah. You know? Like, you know, there's a lot of different things you can explore, but could Susie, heronic be a second pair for you next year? And then you have somebody else play with Quinn Hughes. Yeah, I don't know. I think what you're getting-- Or is just the value of Hughes and Ronik so big that you're better off just keeping them together and figuring out the rest of your defense. And I think, as evidenced by the way this season has played out, the Canucks have made their decision. Rick Talking and Adam Foot have made their decision, that Hughes and Ronik are two valuable together to split apart. And I think you wanna have somebody who's at least a adept puck mover and skater the way heronic is with Hughes for his next partner. Yeah. Now, you're seeing what the best version of Quinn Hughes is and how he's getting there. And I think you will have to do everything you can to try to find something at least similar to play with him, right? Stan Reicho, Satyar Shah, you're listening to Canucks Central.
