[MUSIC] >> Good morning, Joe. It's 4759 of the fan band and it's Frank Gunning. So we're less than a week out from the start of the Major League Baseball season in our earnest in Korea next week. It's Dodgers and Padres, I believe. I will take your word for it. >> Anyways, they start up the season early next week. If you're up at this hour or an hour earlier, cuz I think the games start at six in the morning, a couple of games, to what your palate. >> You're gonna be locked in with TVs in here? >> Yeah, that'll be fine, we'll have them. It's always fun to get early morning live sporting action. So we'll be watching them. >> I'm a golf fan, you're gonna tell me twice. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, the real season starts two weeks from tomorrow. As the rest of Major League Baseball. >> Cuz the Dodgers and Padres are frauds. >> No, because they played the weirdo. >> Yeah, I know, I was just trying to lead. >> Asian games and then come back and play spring training games again before starting the regular season. >> Is that, okay, quickly. I know we're gonna talk baseball here and we're going to, but is that sad? What's sadder? Them playing real games and then coming back and playing spring training games or in the north division season when the playoffs had started? And I think it was the flames. >> My God. >> And God, I forgot about that. >> Had to go play three-year regular season games. >> Yeah, that was rough. >> That is mean in this game. >> That is the saddest regular season game in sports history. You have three games set between the flames and Canucks to wrap up the meaningless season. >> Yeah, it's not what you want. But yeah, what I do want is meaningful baseball. >> September? >> Right around the corner, yeah, like that. >> One day. >> No, we're beyond that. >> Yeah. >> We want playoffs again. >> Because you don't have to be good to make the playoffs. >> Not zero percentage for back to that. >> Nah, the blue jays weren't good last year. They won 89 games, still made the playoffs, didn't win a playoff game, still haven't during the Vlad and Bo tenure, but yada, yada, yada. >> Scored run. >> That's true. >> In the two game series loss. >> Big knock. >> Kevin Kierman. >> Let's go. >> All right, so it looks like Crisis was avoided when it comes to Kevin Gossman. The jury's still out, I guess, on Alec Manoa. And I don't know about you, but I can just speak for my own sake. >> Yeah, I have a feeling I'm gonna follow you here. >> That Alec Manoa would be a nice to have. And I guess like to reach your ultimate goals, maybe a need to have to have two ace type pitchers, but not a guy that I was counting on to provide much of anything this season. Considering what we saw a season ago, considering yet the plasma rich injection into his shoulder, and especially considering the first and only spring training start we saw from him, and then the subsequent shutting of him down. Anyways, he's not going to be hungry enough to start the season. >> Agree. >> Okay. Kevin Gossman, you got to have that guy. And certainly counting on that guy, say, to be atop your rotation. Kind of frightening when he says, little sore after my first outing, not in a great for league game. But first attempt at ramping it up. Anyways, seems like it's all good. He just overdid it in his first attempt to start ramping up the season. And since then, all reports are feeling good. His side session went well, not going to be available to start game one of the season, which clearly, like if we're having a discussion about who the Blue Jays opening day starters should be, it starts and ends with Kevin Gossman. >> Yes. >> So he's out of the mix. And it does seem like all the reporting on this, and you just do the math, vacate these starts. And Jose Barrio starting yesterday against the Yankees, that he would be the guy, would naturally land on game one of the regular season. Again, two weeks from tomorrow in Tampa, the guy who's done that before, didn't go so well, was the worst start of his entire career, the only opening day start he's made as a member of the Toronto Blue Jays. They won that game coming back against the Texas Rangers, but he got one out. >> No, it's Alec, but no, that's going to be pitching for the Toronto Blue Jays later this year, not Barrios. >> What do you mean? >> The Toronto Maple Leafs, sorry. >> Okay. >> I ruined my own joke by saying the wrong team. >> All right. Well done. You've now confused me. >> I know. >> Jose Barrios is going to be the game one starter for the Blue Jays this season. Is that obvious? It seems like nobody has any disagreement. Everyone's just like, hey, Jose Barrios making his first start of the making his second opening day start and he will be the guy because of math, because of his Jose Barrios. But remember, this is a guy that after that horrible start to start the season two years ago, he also put forth his worst regular season as a member, as a starting pitcher in Major League Baseball. And his first full season with the Toronto Blue Jays. Now he bounced back in a nice way last season, but is it obvious that Jose Barrios should be given the nod of being the opening day starter for the Toronto Blue Jays? >> I think not only is it obvious that he should be given the nod to get the ball on opening day for the Blue Jays, I think it is quasi likely he is their best pitcher this season. I would love nothing more than Kevin Gosman to prove, I was going to say prove me, so he went Gosman. If Kevin Gosman could prove me wrong, but this was a guy who had the rough outing in the playoffs. That's why I'm not going to make anything of it. But he also had a little bit of fatigue coming out of the all-star break. There was a blip post all-star break for him. Now you have a slightly older player who is starting a season not behind the eight ball by any means, but not exactly where he'd want to be or he'd be getting the ball on opening day. I don't think the earth is about to fall beneath him, but I think that this is a pretty natural thing where the guy who is the younger player that you've paid a ton of money to and you pay Gosman a lot of money as well, but you've also paid Barrios that way that I think it is a really good chance he's the Blue Jays best starter this year. So I think retrospective for that right now, I think in retrospect it's going to make all the sense in the world that he got the ball on opening day. That's my view on it. Yeah. I don't rule out that possibility. I would say that if that's the case, that it's a bad thing. It's like Kevin Gosman is not being is Kevin Gosman self, and it's not that Jose Barrios is reaching these new heights. I think Jose Barrios saved for the one season he can just wipe it away because it was a year in which he had an ERA over five, but even in that year, guy takes the ball every fifth day. Yep. That has like R.A. Dickey Tones, you're like, ah, 200 innings, but that is, you know, like R.A. Dickey wasn't the Cy Young award winner that they expected to get from the New York Mets, but there is something to taking the ball every fifth day as the New York Yankees who are now going to try and patch it a rotation together, maybe without Gary Colby forced into the Blake Snell conversation against their will. Um, but yeah, who's it? Paul, Paul, those poor Yankees having a podium and say a sign of Cy Young winner all against their will. It's not wrong, but God, just hearing it that way drives me and drives me nuts. Yeah. Jose Barrios is a nice starting pitcher and has been throughout the course of his majorly career and he's gotten Cy Young award votes, but the upside of Jose Barrios is like no offense. We've seen it. It's, it's not a Cy Young award winner. Kevin Gossman could win a Cy Young. Yep. Kevin Gossman with the way he can dominate lineups and the way he can get swings and misses with the splitter can be the best pitcher in the American league. We've seen him have a legitimate case to that in his brief tenure as a member of the Toronto Blue Jays. The Leafs are, God, I keep doing this. That was why, that was why you accidentally said Leafs and I was making like a, that's where Alec, you know, we'll be playing his trade joke. Thank you. Mappy, I got a chance to make it eventually. The Blue Jays, uh, can be good, are in the conversation because of their rotation and their defense. Yes. But that's not because they have five like other worldly starters. They have one other worldly starter and they have three other guys. And when Alec Manoa was here, I guess you could say they had two top of the rotation guys and then three of these type of guys, but three above average starters who take the ball every single day or every fifth day. Jose Barrios. Imagine how good they'd be if they took it every time. Jose Barrios, Chris Bassett, you say Kakuchi, honestly, those are the same guy. All three of them. Now you can, I mean, they have different skill sets and one guy throws from the other side of the plate. Jose Bassett running out of 97 from the left side. But those are the same type of dudes. And I think you're in a bad spot, honestly, if any of them are the top of your rotation. But what you're, where you're in a good spot and with all the negative things that have been said about this Blue Jays team, it must be said they are in a good spot. You're in a good spot if you have three of those guys and one guy that's clearly above the rest. And that's Kevin Gossman. Kevin Gossman is the guy that gets Sayong award votes. The rest of them are nice to have that make 30 starts. And for the first time in his career, Chris Bassett with 200 innings. Jose Barrios gets the nod because he's been the guy that started on opening day because of the contract. It must be said as well, because he's going to be here beyond the length of the term of Chris Bassett. And you say Kakuchi, but yeah, all three of those guys are kind of the same dude. Yeah. But I mean, correct me if I'm wrong and on a one off, I suppose you can make the argument that they all have the same ceiling, but I feel like I feel like you have the highest ceiling with burrios of those of those guys, not not in a season standpoint, but on a one off game. You know who doesn't think that's the case is the Toronto Blue Jays who I mean, it must be said went to the strikeout left side of the play stuff of you say Kakuchi in a must win postseason game. You say Kakuchi throws upper 90s from the left side. And yeah, he has the higher upside strikeout stuff more so than Jose Barrios, but it must be said again, the Yankees are probably going to figure it out by which I mean paper over their issues by just going out and spending. And Garrett Cole has not been this guy that spent a bunch of time on the IL, but part of the the Blue Jays, I mean, you can call it luck. I don't think it's luck part of the reason they've been as successful as they have and haven't won a playoff game, but are in the playoffs last year and in and around the playoffs in the last couple of years is because the rotation has been so healthy. Part of that is Jose Barrios in his entire career has never been on the IL. That's that's a guy that you need in your rotation. It's a very helpful player to have over the course of 162 game season. It's not what Kevin Gossman can give you in a one off though miss Kevin Gossman. You don't win playoff games with middle of the rotation starters, unless you have an incredible back end of the bullpen, like I'm thinking of those Kansas City Royals World Series type teams. Yeah, your Andrew Miller Guardian, well now guardians, yeah, that type of it. But over the course of 162 game season, you need what the Blue Jays can provide in the middle of the rotation. Yeah, I think I'm a touch higher on burrios than than maybe you are, but I also mostly agree with everything you're saying not to be all doom and gloom, but this has been the thing that's been dancing in my mind. You sit there and you talk about guys who post and they show up every fifth day. What's your level of concern for Bassett just with the age and coming off a career high? I mean, we know he prides himself on being, I mean, you heard the, you saw the comments talking about what it meant to him to be able to get over that 200 inning threshold. Where is he kind of on your concern? Oh, meter for, for lack of a better term of just what using up that many bullets last year could do to him this year. Yeah. Low. I mean, because this is a second consecutive season, he's made at least 30 starts. He's been a pretty consistent dude. Yep. I mean, you are what your record says you are. And yeah, this is a guy again that that's posted. And Blue Jays have made a point of going out and acquiring guys to baseball only term post. Yeah, I think it's a horse racing term, but yeah, no, he posts. And yeah, I don't have a ton of concern about Chris Bassett and I think, man, you want to talk about first impressions? He didn't make a good one, but was able to respond with a great season, maybe one of the best of his entire career. Oh, Blue Jays have a good more than cromulent rotation. It becomes very good. It becomes very good when you have a guy at the very tippy top that's in the Sayyong Award conversation. And without Kevin Gossman, you don't have that, but it does feel like Kevin Gossman is going to be more than good to go at some point at the early point of the season, whether that's starting in game five or maybe they need a spot starter and he starts in game 10 or something. All right. Ernie Clement is having a hell of a spring training, okay? And this is one of the small parts of this Blue Jays spring training schedule that is kind of in flux. The starters are pretty much cemented in stone. Hey, Vlad's going to be your first baseman. It does feel like Kevin Bezio is going to be part of the solution at second base. Isaiah Kiner for left, at least to start the season is going to be the third baseman, Boba Sheth playing shortstop. You got Kevin Kuremeyer in center field. You got Dalton Varsho in left and you got George Springer in right field. The DH spot is occupied for now by Justin Turner, where it gets into a debate is at the bottom of the roster. And largely, those guys are, you know, they're up and down. They're not significant contributors. But sometimes they do emerge as significant assets. Hey, Santiago Espinal has been an all star for this Blue Jays team. Yeah. And sometimes these conversations and debates are made on the basis of merit. And sometimes they're made on the basis of optionality control and whether you risk losing a guy. Development is the one guy that they could risk losing if he doesn't break camp with this team. Is there anybody in the Ernie Clemente mold that you're going to go to the wall for as far as making this team and you'll be devastated if he doesn't? No, not even remotely close. The Blue Jays are, hey, it's possible they prove us wrong and have a better season than I think they're going to have. But there's a reason we're talking about the Blue Jays the way we are. They're a team that has a, you know, a healthy amount of talent, but they also have a healthy amount of question marks or holes. And if there were guys on this team that I thought we're going to without a shadow of a doubt or at least give them a really, really good opportunity to paper over or help fix some of those things, then I'd be riding for them. But guess what? If it was that obvious, there wouldn't be a question mark. So no, there is nobody from that camp that I am sitting here ready to forget, pound the table, even lightly hit it for any of these guys. For me, it is one guy and it's not the death knell. It would be, to me, a pretty rough indicator of this not being a meritocracy and it's not Ernie Clement. Ernie Clement can make this team, but if he doesn't make this team, he's going to end up with a major league job somewhere. I think enough people have seen enough of Ernie Clement and the minor league track records of a guy that can at least hit for average and not necessarily for power, but can play all over the diamond. Ernie Clement has earned a roster spot and somebody's 26-man roster. There's a lot of bad teams too, Ernie Clement can play for somebody. The guy who has real upside, the guy who could be at the bottom of this roster, but could emerge as a real significant force by the end of the season, is the guy who we saw for 30 games be that guy, maybe the reason why the Blue Jays got into the playoffs with 89 wins last season, it's Davis Schneider, who I guess that maybe puts where I'm at on Davis Schneider in perspective, because I didn't even think he was part of that club. I just thought it was such a, I hope, I hope he's not as well, it's impossible that he's not, but it like there's. Okay, in every part of the club, I agree with you. Everything I've read, okay, and we'll talk to Ben Nicholson Smith at 830 today. Maybe this isn't true, but it's Davis Schneider, it's Santiago Espinal, it's Ernie Clement. It's not necessary because it does feel like if it's not Joey Vaudel breaking camp with this team and it doesn't feel like it's going to be, it feels like he's going to have to prove himself in Buffalo. Daniel Vogelbach's going to be on this team and it feels like they're going to need an extra outfielder. So that means like Nathan Lucas gets the chance to be a Major Leagueer yet again. But that, yeah, Davis Schneider is optionable and that his best role is maybe as a DH and Blue Jays have an everyday DH. I can see a scenario where they tell us, hey, we like Davis Schneider, we're still in on Davis Schneider, but Ernie Clement doesn't have options and Davis Schneider does. Like I could see a scenario where that is, that is message towards us and I'm telling you if that happens, that that's an ugly look for a team that needs to win each and every day and is going to be life and death to make the playoffs and a guy that, yeah, might not be what he showed in 30 games, but you look at the minor league track record, I think there's something there with Davis Schneider. Davis Schneider would be the only guy if he's left off this roster going north to where I'd be banging the table. No, I think, I think it's smart that you, that you point that out when you lay the case out. It's entirely possible that that happens. I, I think when I look at it, it's just, yeah, it shows how bullish I am on the player that I don't even think of him as part of that group, but you're right. The numbers game could kind of catch up to him. Part and parcel of it is the decision that will be made with that is that him not being here sets, whoever is taking that spot up for failure, because they're not going to be babe. They're not going to be baby Schneider coming up here. And it is just going to be seen as a lesser, and to your point, some of it is positionality. And yeah, can you throw David Schneider in a corner outfield spot? Sure. Is it going to go particularly well? Yeah. Probably not. But I think that that's part of the decisions this team is going to have to make. They wanted to make the pivot to defense. They did it to a certain extent, but we saw last year, you got to be able to hit too. And if Schneider's a bat that can give you something, and I think it's at the very least that that he should be here. Yes. Santiago Espinol being a minor league or two, like he could be on the outside looking in. Again, a former All-Star, a guy that I think is like he is technically. Yeah. No, you have to say technically or in name only. You do. Yeah, he was an All-Star and you don't even have to say it as long as you say it like that. That's okay. And he plays a bunch of positions and yeah, I will say his glove work at shortstop was a little bit head scratching last year because this was a guy that came up with a defensive bet. I was going to say you think of him as a guy that could just pick it, pick it, pick it and it didn't exactly go that way for him. Yeah, we're to see him on the outside looking in. But honestly, if it were me right now, he'd be my guy that's spending at least the first couple of weeks in Buffalo. These things change very quickly. All right. I mentioned the story last hour, we didn't get to it. It kind of surprised everybody yesterday, but it makes a whole lot of sense. It's like one of those things that surprises you until you think about it for three seconds. This from the New York Times, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has recently approached the NFL quarterback Aaron Rodgers and the former Minnesota governor and professional wrestler Jesse Ventura. The body about serving as his running mate on an independent presidential ticket and both have welcomed the overtures to people familiar with the discussion said also later on in this article. I mean, just to add credence, yeah, the domain name, Kennedy Rogers dot com was registered last week using a go daddy host, Brent, are we about to see the end of Aaron Rodgers NFL career because he's about to make a press vice presidential run? I would not rule out Aaron Rodgers having a realization of what he is at this point in time and this being as good of off ramp as I'm not good at football anymore. I'm just going to retire. I'm not remotely ruling that possibility. I don't actually think that will happen. I think he will try to give it a go and everything that happened in New York will to a certain extent happen again this year. But if he's doing off season workouts and father time is undefeated and I don't think he'd be ready to like tap out to father time. But if it gets proven that he has to, what better for him, what better off ramp to take than than this yet? It doesn't necessarily mean he has to give up his NFL career, but the general elections in November, it's hard to imagine him doing the campaigning that's required, but you don't get okay. So let's just do the calendar here general election in November NFL season like it starts in earnest. I get no camps and everything, but the season starts late September, you got months of campaigning you can do, then I'm sure there are people out there, well, I don't think any former presidents are listening or vice presidents for that matter. So maybe we won't get a correction on this, but I don't feel like they have a lot to do between that and being sworn in in what January, January 6, as we all as we all now know. So and that's into playoffs. And if you just, you could not see, you could not see Vice President Aaron Rodgers saying, look, America, I got a Super Bowl to go in. I'll get to you in a second here. And, you know, this would presume he'd win, which he won't, but God, dream with me for a second. And by dream, I mean, come and step into this nightmare that would become America. But God, I need this story to happen or at least continue to have legs just for my ability to roll my eyes. >> Yeah, so Robert Kennedy Jr is not going to be the next president of the United States. >> You don't think? >> No, he's not. >> They said that about Trump. >> Yeah, and my initial thought on the matter would be that he's taking votes away from Donald Trump, but that the Republicans would be very anti-Robert Kennedy Jr. running for president. But it doesn't lead to Rodgers, yeah. >> Now in the article, it does say that he's in polling, he's pulled votes from both parties, but specifically the Democrats are afraid of this hurting Joe Biden's chances, which is, I mean, there's another wrinkle to this thing and it's the whole Woody Johnson of it all. >> Mm-hm. >> The owner of the New York Jets, there's no ambiguity about it. He's a Donald Trump guy, Donald Trump made him ambassador to Great Britain. Like he is clearly gonna be on the campaign trail for Donald Trump. So my initial reaction was like, man, what an interesting dynamic between the owner and his star quarterback and what would he prefer winning football games or winning an election, but he can get both here. It looks like this is everything's coming up. Woody Johnson, this isn't an insane story. And yeah, we can talk about the campaigning and the general election in November. Robert F Kennedy Jr. is doing this for the brand name of Aaron Rodgers, not necessarily his policies because he's not a politician. >> Right. >> I think he would probably- >> Dark K is for everyone, I Alaska in every pot. >> If he was gonna make a concession to Aaron Rodgers and Rodgers, I'll do this, but not like doing anything. Like other than you can put my name on your button. >> Yeah. >> Okay, and I don't know if the independent candidates like their vice presidents get to debate in the vice presidential debate. I mean, that would be electric. >> My God. >> But yeah, I could see a scenario where Aaron Rodgers is like, yeah, just put my name up there. And like, I'll be on the ticket with you, but I don't have to do anything, right? >> Yeah, perfect. >> No, we've gone too far into this. Now I need like watch parties or such a thing. Like we have Manning cast for stuff. I now need Aaron Rodgers on the VP debate stage so we can get a Pat McAfee watch party for that like, bro, this guy's making some good points dominating. >> I, man, I love this story. I also, this has to be said, this is the same guy who came out at the end of the Jets season and said, we got to stop being so selfish and doing things for ourselves. And we got to eliminate distractions. I'm paraphrasing, but that is more or less what he said. And I, I got to say, I don't know that this is doing that. Just just being honest, I feel like this is maybe a bit of a distraction. Now it's to be fair, was it him reaching out? He was reached out to and nothing's been finalized. >> The thing is, is that he's so shy to get in front of a mic and refuted if it was untrue, right? Like he just, you never hear from him. God, poor Jets fans though, can you imagine like putting everything in stasis the way they did and Robert Salah coming back to spite the obvious abject disaster that they were outside of the quarterback last season. But with the idea like, okay, we know how ugly it was and we know how like any normal franchise would be like, clean the deck. This has been awful, but we have the Hall of Famer coming back to BR pivot next season. And then for that to go up and smoke because he went on a vice presidential run would be something else. >> And he's already cut the first commercial popular joke going around yesterday of him. He really just went to the Jets so he could run on the field with the American flag and use that campaign promo. >> You're absolutely right. All right, when we come back, we'll talk to you. >> I feel like we have to ask Damien one question about this. >> I have an idea where his head might be. >> Oh, V2. I just want to hear it. >> Damien Cox, our lead sister in Toronto star contributor next to the fan morning show continues Ben and his friend gunning sports and 590 the fan. >> Unrivaled insight, analysis and opinions on all things blue jays, Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. >> Fan morning show sports, 590 the fan, Ben and his friend gunning leads back in action tomorrow in Philadelphia gets fliers deemed it's battling to make playoffs. The Islanders going fast and furious and have already passed the red wings. They'd like to get into the top three in the Metro. Certainly feels possible. I don't think anybody views that fliers team is unimpeachable. So Brad for living has done some work on this team. >> He has. >> Made some additions. >> He did. >> Joel Edmondson, cup winner. >> Crop top kid. >> Iliya Labushkin. We've known what he's capable of. >> Russian bear. >> I think he's the definition of crombulent. >> Yeah, very much so. >> Yeah, very much in a mold of a Luke Shen and poor man's Lucian. >> And Connor Dure can kill some penalties. >> No, come on, he can do her. >> I guess. >> That's it. >> Yeah, he can do her. >> In limited sample guidance, going to play about 10 minutes, a game, he can do some things. And also, you know, Max Domi and Tyler Bertuzzi are going to be part of the conversation. I'm curious as to, I'll get your take on this quickly here, Brent. >> Yeah. >> If the Leafs have the ultimate success. >> So I guess it's how it happens, right? >> Of course. >> This post season, how it happens. Like if Tyler Bertuzzi's rattling off hat trick after hat trick. >> Yeah. >> Boy, Brad for living, you get all the kudos. >> Boy does he. >> But how much of this will be viewed in the lens of, hey, this is Brad for living's team and it has his stamp on it when we get into the post season. >> Quickly, I don't think the Civil War is over. And I think that there are people who will be very hesitant to give true living credit that he might very well be deserved. If it's a Domi or a Bertuzzi, you'll say, ah, come on, it's bad to use. It's all the guys who've been here that finally grew up, they finally had their moment. And I think there'll be a sub-sect that are dying to say, ah, look at Kyle's core, finally coming through when he's not here. So I think we're slowly moving away from the Civil War of Leafs fandom here. But I think that those battle lines are still percolating and that's, that's how it'll all happen. And ultimately, what will happen is the Leafs will not win the cup, and we won't be having that conversation. >> All right. Let's talk to Damien Cox, our Leafs historian, Toronto Star contributor. How's it going, Damien? >> Well, I feel badly that I'm on with you this morning because I'm obviously woefully under or misinformed. I was not aware there was going on. I, I missed this entirely to blame what the Civil War is. >> Yeah, does the Civil War, man. There's a, hey, uh, Leafs fans are divided. Either you were a Dubis, you were a Dubisite, or you were an anti-Dubis person. You didn't know, you didn't know that. >> Oh, okay. Okay. I got you. >> Was anybody really a Dubis guy though? I mean, there were a couple that said anybody really got right now. >> Yeah, I, I defended Kyle Dubis' vision for the team pretty, pretty vociferously. I thought that he was a guy who made a lot of good moves far from perfect, had plenty of ones. We can all, we can all lay them out at Nazium. But yeah, I was somebody who I felt like, well, and I'll go back even further. When it was a decision between him and Lou, I felt like the team made the right decision at the time. >> Yeah, I, look, I don't disagree with you. I think you, you had to make a move, although it looks, don't look now, but here are Lou Lamorello and the New York Islanders sneaking into a playoff position again. I think I look back at the Dubis thing, not to re-litigate this whole thing. I basically agree with you, but I would say what's, what was the, what was the one thing he did that changed that franchise? What was the one player he acquired? How did he change the team? The answer was, there really wasn't one, wasn't it? >> No, it was. >> I mean, all the guys, all the guys that are the stars of the team were, were with the team when he got there. >> Mm-hmm. I would say that the, if I was going to distill what Kyle Dubis was about, the philosophy was, pay your top end talent and accumulate as much top end talent as you can and just figure out the rest. And that's the most important thing, is having the top end talent and, and yeah, overpaying those guys like clearly, yeah, his stamp will be giving everybody all the money that they wanted, but banking on a core of four words who are elite, like there's no debate about it, at least during the regular season, and that the rest of it will take care of itself. And so far that hasn't been the case, David. >> Well, yeah, well, and I would go little further than that and saying his philosophy was to invest in high-end elite forwards, not to invest in gold tending, even in the draft generally, although they, you know, they have Joseph Woll, but he was a lowered pick and not, and not to invest in on the blue line, you know, they, they brought in different guys. But nobody got paid like John Tavares got paid or, or any of the other big guys. You know, Morgan Riley is their one significant money guy on the back end, and then it's just been a, you know, change the, change the group every single year. So that was part of the philosophy too, and I ultimately think that will change underbred for living particularly on the back end. If you look at what the mission was in Calgary with the defense they had put together, now it's all been blown up, of course. But I think that ultimately the least will try to invest more of their dollars on defense. >> Yeah, the thing I've always wondered about that, and you know, it's, there's only one man, I suppose, who, well, a couple, maybe Brandon Shana has some insight on the matter, but you know, it's Kyle Dubas who can answer this question is, do you think that it was a philosophical decision to load up at forward, or it was a taking the road map that the pieces lay out for you? Like, I think if they could have selected defenseman Mitch Marner, who's six foot four and shoots with the right hand, they would have gladly taken that player, but you look at the guys who went behind them, they made the right call there, the kneelander draft pick, the exact same thing. Nobody's quibbling with Matthews, and even Tavares, you know, I do wonder if his deal comes up well before Alex Petriangelo is a free agent. Do they go that route instead if the calendar just goes? Now I'm not saying you're beholden to this, and there was nothing he could have done, but I've also, I've always looked at that less of, he felt like they needed a million great forwards to win, then these are the great players we have. Let's build around them. What's your read on that? Yeah, I mean, look, like I say, those guys were there when he got there. You know, they made the choice before Kyle Dubas to take Mitch Marner over Noah Hanifen, and I don't think anybody would disagree with that decision. I mean, that's as stark a contrast as you can between a high and forward and a big defensement. I think that Tavares one becomes more of an interesting discussion, and then beyond that, I mean, you know, there have been so many decisions along the way. Look, they tried to get Jake Muzzin. He got hurt. You know, I mean, that, you know, they wanted, you know, so it's not like Dubas didn't try, but I mean, the evidence suggests there's more poured into what he believed in, which was that ultimately elite offensive forwards are what will make the difference. And, you know, we'll see again this spring. Right now, I don't think anybody's talking about the Maple Leafs as a team that's going to win the Stanley Cup, but, you know, players could be surprising. Yeah, I mean, that's the, the net graph of your latest on the Toronto Star. Deadline beef gives Maple Leafs a punch his chance at the Stanley Cup, nothing more. I mean, should there have been something more? Because I think you're right. Like, I think the universal view of the Toronto Maple Leafs is a good team, and it's the playoffs, and all you need is a chip in a chair, and certainly with the high-end talent that they possess, they could, this could be the year, could be any year where Austin Matthews is taking to the ice, but that they clearly, you know, record-wise and just roster-wise don't stack up against, I guess, you know, the top-end contenders, the Florida's of the world. Should they have done more before last Friday? There was, I don't think there was much more to do, unless you really wanted to dig into trading first-round picks and their better prospects. And I'm not sure there, there was a wisdom in there. I mean, look, all these teams that made these moves are going to regret them in about a month and a half, and they're going to be without a first-round pick all of a sudden, and they'll have been beaten out in the first round. I mean, that's just the nature of the game, for sure. And look, I think, you know, I kind of agree with you, and I kind of don't, in that I think the Leafs roster does stack up in a lot of ways against, because there are no gripping teams. I think it's performance that's the issue, and primarily goaltending. Right now, the biggest move, and I've said this before, the biggest move that Brad for Living made this year, was to give Ilya Samsonov a holiday in the middle of the season to get his act back together, and it worked. And I think if you look at Samsonov now, he's not the best goaltender in the league, for sure. But I think he's playing as though he can be in the top quarter, top third of them. If he gives elite goaltending, like he did against Tampa Bay in the first round last year, then there's possibilities here. I think the question is, you know, can he stay healthy long enough? That's always an issue with him. And I think now the Leafs can say, look, we have an alternative. We can turn to Joseph Wall. We can talk about all these things, guys, about who picked up who and don't want it. It's going to come down to goaltending. And whether they get it, and if they don't, Sergey Mabrowski proved that again last year, and that's what it's going to come down to. The rest of it is kind of becomes among these teams, because they're so closely packed together. The rest of it kind of becomes just a general coffee table discussion, but goaltending will decide it. Yeah, I agree with that. But it'd be a pretty boring radio show to just say, well, let's dive into some of the things that maybe don't matter as much. You know, there's been a lot of conversation in years past, and I want to just lay out where I've stood. I've not wholly bought into this. But the idea that Sheldon Keefe has been outcoached in the series that the Leafs have lost. He is going to go in all likelihood against either the guy who won the Jack Adams last year in Jim Montgomery, or the guy who has as good a shot as any to win at this year in Paul Maurice. How much specifically, you know, when it comes to playoffs, do you think coaching matters? You know, again, it feels like we try to find everything for reasons why this team wins or loses outside of the stars and the goalies. But do you think coaching matters? Because it definitely gets talked about a ton like it does come playoff team. I think it matters, but I think it matters at such a subtle and, you know, tiny level like the mind. You share the game. You know, the line changes at what time the combinations, giving guys a chance. You know, I don't, I don't, did Sheldon Keefe outcoach John Cooper last year? I think too often we assume whoever wins the series was the better coach. That's not necessarily the case. You know, Sheldon Keefe does not have right now the resume that tells you that he can outcoach guys. But he's an experienced guy. He's one at the AHL level. And if he gets has one of those springs, then we'll all talk about what a genius he was until he gets fired. Should they have made it? You know, I said they should have made a change during the season. They didn't. They've now won what 11 other last 14 or something like that. So maybe it was the right decision to keep him. But the discussion, look, if they if they have an unsuccessful spring, that discussion is going to open up again as to what they should do about their coaching and whether Sheldon Keefe will ever put him over the top. In terms of coaching, outcoaching, like did Paul Maurice outcoach Sheldon Keefe? No, I think Sergei Babrowski won the series, right? Yeah, maybe Paul Maurice told him to be better though. Oh man. And what a good point Ben. I'm sure you know, he should try that this year. We'll put that, we'll send a note over to MLSE, tell the goalie to stop the the pucks there. Speaking of coaching, can't can't talk. You like that. The speaking of coaching, you can't you can't think about it right now without thinking of John Tortorella. I don't know what you're what you made of everything that happened there. You know, this where I go with it, you can kind of take it wherever you want. My biggest thing coming out of that and is if you're going to kick a coach out of a game and it's going to turn into and part of this is on Tortorella, but it's going to turn into a $50,000 fine in a two game suspension. I kind of need to know what was said or some intimation. We know that NFL or NHL refs are not allowed to talk to the media. Would you like to have known what was said? What line was crossed? Because I'm kind of of the opinion that it's an official's job to almost, I won't say anything, but a pretty high threshold to to eat it. It's your job out there. What did you make of everything that happened with Tortorella in the fallout from it? Well, first of all, I mean, I mean, John Tortorella won the 2004 Stanley Cup of the Tampa Lightning that can never be taken away from them. He has turned into like, you know, it's all about bringing attention to him. It's to me, anyways, more than whether he's a good coach or a bad coach, you know, this was a night he wanted to be a big part of it because they were celebrating that Tampa team. And I think he got he got carried away. Guys, how often does a coach get kicked out of a game? Well, that's two and two weeks, right? Sheldon Keith got kicked out. Oh, well, you've got to really, really say something. I think we'd all agree that. I'm not a huge fan of the West McCauley show, but I really believe that John Tortorella, whatever he said, he went over the line. And then he really went over the line by saying, I'm not going anywhere. You go somewhere. I'm not coming. It's kind of that's turning the league into a forest at that point. So, you know, John Tortorella believes that people come to watch him coach. And, you know, I hear that all the time. Well, why would you kick him out? Well, I would have noticed if he was there, he wasn't there. I'm watching his hockey team. I'm not watching him coach unless he starts screaming at the referee. He got out of control. And, you know, he's an experienced guy. He should not be getting tossed out of games like that with the Philadelphia fliers in the situation they're in. John Tortorella suspended two games. Morgan Riley suspended five games. Matt Remby suspended four games. What's the what's the of those three? What's what's the one where you like the punishment fits the crime the most? You know, look, you know, this, this is the endless discussion because I always start with you want to jail for life. Let's be honest, Debo. No, I think I look, I kind of feel for the kid because he's being used. And I think that's unfortunate. But he's in the big leagues. Good for him, you know, and making great money and hopefully he'll have a long and successful career punching other guys in the face. But the the the reality is is the fact that they don't give heavier suspensions to guys for those kinds of wicked headshots like he delivered is why we see those wicked headshots. And so, a four game suspension, New York Rangers aren't going to miss this kid for four games. And they'll hope they'll bring him back and he'll run around and hit some other guys in the head when he gets back. I assume that's because that's kind of what he does. But I would assure I would have suspended him for longer. Morgan Riley definitely deserved one. I think I would have given John Tartarella maybe 2530 games because I'm just so tired of him. You know, you want to really punish him, you make him do his job and then do the post game show for the Flyers. That's what you have to do your job and then be an entertaining media member for 30 minutes post game. That that'd be the true punishment for Tony. Yeah. Well, and that's a thing too. Like he's always like combative with the media, except when he's in between jobs, then he is the media. He's on TV and he's Mr. Congeniality. And then he's back to being what it's an act. It's a show which I get. That's part of big league coaching in any sport. Part of it is show. But I think that the the tortarella show has kind of outstripped the tortarella substance in my mind. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. That being said, though, the Flyers, I don't think many people expected them to be in a playoff spot. And when it's all said and done, they might not be. And they are there. I don't know how much you can put it the feet of John Tortarella, but scoreboard. I'm sure he would say. Damo, always a pleasure. Thanks for doing this. Guys, I got to figure out which side of the Civil War I'm on. I have to carry a flag of some kind like they do in those. No, you, you've been given the drums. You got to lead them into battle. You just got it there. I don't know, maybe clarinet or flutes more your style, but we're going like full, full Civil War. Yeah. Yeah. Who would ever bring a flute to a battle? I mean, who's going to hear this? Any of that's in the, we'll talk about that next time, guys. Yeah, sounds good, Damien. Thanks, buddy. Hey, guys. Damien Cox, trauma star contributor, our Leafs historian. I mean, you know, I'm trying to do research right now to find that they for sure like, like the Paul Revere type, like, do, do, do, do, do, and they got the thing. And there's a guy with the flute. Yeah, the thing of the stuff. Yeah, for sure. No, but the American Civil War is what we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I feel, I don't know. It's like, it's the Civil War I first think of. I don't think of the clarinet, though. I think you were on the flute. Yeah, not the clue. Guys got a bad alto sax solo before we throw down in his gauntlet right now. Hold on. Kenny G is going to regale us first. All right. Time now for the waking right presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. All right. Players championship cranking up tomorrow at TPC sawgrass. Let's have a look at some of the odds. Um, Scotty Sheffler getting the Tiger Woods treatment here, as far as the tournament winner odds are concerned, plus five 50 to win this thing. He's the favorite Rory McElroy second favorite, plus 1600 though, Xander Schoffley third favorite Victor Hobland in there at plus 2,500. Justin Thomas also plus 2,200 Patrick Cantley, Will Zalatoris also plus 2,500. Anybody stand out to you? Yeah. Zalatoris is the guy I like there. He was in the mix last week, had a just awful blow up. I think it was a triple or quad bogey that kind of completely took him out of everything there. Pudding matters less at the players when it's held in March, as opposed to May, it just does. And that's going to bode well for Zalatoris. He he can stripe it. It's putting is the problem. Stop me if you've heard this before today. So yeah, the of the guys with slightly longer odds. That's one that jumps out. And if you want to go super long shot at ball strike and matters, that throw flyer on the cannot Corey Connors. I was going to say, yeah, plus 5,500 for Corey Connors as we get set for a tournament, he's played a very well at Augusta National at the beginning of April, maybe starting to find his form in the weeks preceding that. Yeah, I like Corey Connors because I'm a proud Canadian plus 55 for him. That was the waken rake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19 plus bet responsibly. When we come back, Dr. Carter Hutton, former NHL goalie next is the fan morning show continues, Ben Ann is Brent Gunning Sports at 590 the fan.
