The chief executive of Manx Care says she doesn't think they're even close to being able to resolve a pay dispute with its doctors in the British Medical Association.
The union is calling for a 12.6% pay rise for the 2023-24 financial year, and could ballot its members for industrial action if a pay award isn't agreed.
Teresa Cope has been speaking to Ben and Sian:
Hi, I'm Shahne, one of the news editors at Manx Radio. Now, the British Medical Association has announced it will ballot its members on the Isle of Man if a 12.6% pay rise for the 2023-24 financial year can't be agreed with Manx Care. So just why hasn't this pay award been agreed already and what will the impact be if there is industrial action by doctors? Myself and Ben spoke to Manx Care's chief executive Theresa Cope. Well, it hasn't been resolved because I just don't think we are even close to being able to resolve that very significant gap between what Manx Care has been able to offer within its budget and obviously the expectations of the British Medical Association. And I think this follows the settlements that have now been achieved in the UK and the resolution in other jurisdictions. So I do recognise that we have fallen behind, but obviously Manx Care offered 6% for 3-24 for last year and the BMA are seeking 12.6 and there's a significant gap there, so sort of to bridge that gap we would need to find around a further 3.5 to 4 million pounds in order to achieve that settlement at 12.6. Maybe we start the following year's pay negotiations and we've offered 4% for 24-25 the current year. But yes, I think it's a great source of stress for everybody concerned that we haven't been able to settle this pay dispute. You touched on there the fact that Manx Pay Awards have fallen behind the UK. Why is that? Well, we're given a level of budgets and we sort of transfer that across into all of our pay awards. So for last year 6% was put into our budget on pay awards and 4% has been factored into this year. Now if we were to go over and above that, Manx Care would need to find that from its base budget so we would need to make changes which would allow more than that to be put into base pay and we haven't been able to find that. So we have escalated this but I think this is the difficulty that we haven't been able to keep pace. We have watched very closely what's been happening in the UK. We absolutely don't want industrial action, strike action on the island here. It would have a huge detrimental impact on patients. Nobody wants that. The BMA don't want that and we don't want that. So it is, we do need to try and resolve that but as we've heard, that can only be resolved by putting an improved offer on the table which Manx Care is not able to do. And as I say, that gap and what we would need to find is around £4m and then there is a broader question and a broader question which Manx Care has had to consider throughout all of the pay negotiations. We have tried to create equity with all of our workforce. So whatever offer we have made to our doctors, our board feel it's important that we would be able to make a comparable offer to all of our other workforce on nurses and our allied health professionals which is why we have sort of held a line around that 4% offer for this year and 6%. Now we did manage to settle at 6% last year for the other members of staff but obviously we haven't been able to achieve that resolution for our doctors. The BMA told us that it's concerned about the impact that this could have on recruitment for Manx Care. Is that something that is also a concern for you that if you can't match what's being offered in the UK, staff simply won't come here? I think it is a concern in the longer term. I mean, what I would say is we have been able to recruit into most of our substantive vacancies for doctors. So when Manx Care started there was a high number of agents in local doctors working for us. That is absolutely down to a minimum now and we have been able to make substantive recruitment. So we have very few vacancies for doctors across the organisation which is a real positive. Our base salary for doctors is still higher than the UK so we still are able to pay slightly more than the UK. At the top of that scale it's around 25 to 30k, better than the UK. But I do take that point that unless we can remain competitive in that market over a longer period of time we will and potentially see our ability to recruit, reduce. Now with the potential ballots over industrial action we know industrial action can be a fairly abroad range of actions but how big an impact could this have on Manx Care services? I mean any industrial action is going to have a significant impact. I mean at this moment in time what we know is obviously the ballot is going to happen at the point where we know the outcome of that ballot and if that ballot is in favour of industrial action we work very closely with the unions to agree what are called derogations. So the services which must continue to operate and we just don't know the detail of that. Obviously as we work through that process and work closely with the BMA we will understand more about what that industrial action is likely to look like and then when it's likely to happen. I mean obviously we're going into winter but any form of industrial action is not good. It's very distracting, it's very unsettling and you know I would just make the point again. It's not what any of us would want. Now Mrs Kope I think it's fair to say that over the last couple of months or so it's been very stormy times for Manx Care with various issues which of course have been well reported. So going over to the next couple of months if there is this industrial action from the doctors do you think the right team is in place at the top of Manx Care to see the health body through any potential industrial action and indeed the Isle of Man through that as well? Yes I absolutely do and I did respond to someone on social media last night so you know doctors are incredibly important members of the workforce. They are the care prescribers and nothing will renewed that but we have a broader workforce and we have a workforce which is representative social workers, allied health professionals, nurses, managers and we have a board which is made up of all of those in individuals. So we have three medical doctors on the board, we have a social worker, we have allied health professionals, we have nurses, we have professionals who have worked their entire careers in health and care. So I would argue very very strongly that we have the right expertise on the board to lead us through this. Now obviously last year there were strikes by nurses and we planned for that, we went into command and control mode, we absolutely led the organisation through that. We have to do this respectfully, our staff have a right to express their views through industrial action working with their staff side and despite all of that difficulty our relationship with the Royal College of Nursing remained very very strong and we've come out of that, we've come out the other side and we continue to work really positively with all of the staff side organisations. I hope it will be no different as we go through this process with our medical staff and the British Medical Association. Our primary concern first and foremost is to disrupt patient services to the absolute minimum and to reassure the public that the services they need will still be here and that's what we will be focused on doing. Now of course we've been talking about the 2023/24 pay award, you've touched on the fact that there is provision in your budget this year for a 24/25 pay award. What can be done between now and this time next year to make sure we don't end up having this conversation again? Well indeed, I think we need to make sure that's factored into our financial plan submissions and is very clearly understood by both Department of Health and Social Care and Treasury. This matter has been excavated because ultimately there needs to be a decision made across broader government about what can be afforded and we know we're in that position at the moment of having to think really really carefully about what we can afford and what level of provision we need and whilst the pay awards sit slightly separately from that for all staff groups and I would include all staff groups who work on the island, we must make sure that our financial planning across the whole island reflects what is likely to be the necessary uplifts on pay in order to achieve resolution because actually it's in no one's interest to have long and protracted pay negotiations which cross over several years. Now you know what, I know the BMA feel there has been pay erosion over a quite a long period of time and so they have reached this point where actually that needs to be stopped and pay restoration needs to be put in place. Now that is incremental that may take a few years but that needs to be factored into why the financial planning for the island, if that indeed is what is supported and obviously that then transferred into Monks Care so we can have that budget to be able to achieve a reasonable settlement for our staff. You know it's not for me to make the judgment about what is a fair settlement. Ultimately Monks Care has offered, if we go back sort of the four years, 3% for 21-22, a combined total of 8% for 22-23, 6% for 23-24 and 4% for the year we're in 24-25. It's not for me to make the judgment of whether that's a fair settlement. Clearly the British Medical Association have felt the last two years of offer, the 6% and the 4% are not what they feel are appropriate for their members and we have to respect that and that's the negotiation piece but there is a significant financial gap between what we're able to offer and what the expectations are from British Medical Association colleagues and as I say for this year alone, for the 23-24 year that gap is about 4 million pounds. Thank you for making it to the end of the Manks Radio newscast. You are obviously someone with exquisite taste. May I politely suggest you might want to subscribe to this and a wide range of Manks Radio podcasts at your favourite podcast provider so our best bits will magically appear on your smartphone. Thank you. [Music] (gentle music)
