New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard analyzes Giants co-owner John Mara's vote of confidence in GM Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll, previews the Giants' Week 8 Monday Night Football visit to the Pittsburgh Steelers and discusses what it will take for Schoen and Daboll to prove Mara right @Bleav. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Will Joe Schoen, Brian Daboll and Giants reward John Mara's confidence vs. Steelers?
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard analyzes Giants co-owner John Mara's vote of confidence in GM Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll, previews the Giants' Week 8 Monday Night Football visit to the Pittsburgh Steelers and discusses what it will take for Schoen and Daboll to prove Mara right @Bleav.
- Broadcast on:
- 25 Oct 2024
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- other
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All right, everybody. This is Pat Leonard from the New York Daily News. And the Believe Network here on the Talking Ball with Pat Leonard podcast, welcoming you to another episode of Talking Ball Live with Pat Leonard here on October 24, Thursday night. This is our Pittsburgh Steelers New York Giants preview, and also the episode where we have to dissect John Maris comments his vote of confidence in Joe Shane, in Brian Dable, in the Giants leadership. I was there in Manhattan, in Midtown. When John Maris, the Giants co-owner, put his name on it. He said that he does not anticipate a change after this season at GM or Coach. Let alone, they will not be making any changes during the year. Said he still believes in the general manager and coach in their process. Said he sits and listens to their plans for building this the right way, their personnel evaluations, and he still has confidence in them. That obviously is great news for Joe Shane and Brian Dable, because the product on the field, as Maris said, is something that is terribly disappointing, that ownership is not happy about. And that above all, he knows the fans are tired of watching. But he said that he is trying to learn patience, a quality that he feels like his dad had, and that he preached and lived by, and that John is trying to file a suit he obviously knows from experience having fired his last three head coaches, either during or after their second seasons, and now is trying to do better at essentially giving a little bit more rope to the people that he has hired in order to get it done. So that's good news for Shane and Dable. And as we sit here and now, it seems like they are tracking to be the head coach and general manager again for a fourth season in 2025. It's an interesting dichotomy, though, when you observe Brian Dable not holding Deontay Banks accountable publicly in any way for a lack of effort on jail and hurt scramble. It falls, again, on the defensive backs coach Jerome Henderson doing it right there on the sideline after calling him out several weeks ago against the Dallas Cowboys. And it falls on Dexter Lawrence, a team leader, a defensive captain, and the best player on this roster to say to me, and a few other reporters in the locker room, I said, what do you say to a player like Banks after a play like that, and he said that it's not acceptable. He knows that the entire defense knows that's not acceptable, and Banks knows that too. So we address it, that's that, and we move on. But this is the second time this has happened in a game. From my understanding, this is not even the second time it's happened overall, though, this has happened at other points as well along Banks's journey, especially this year, particularly this year. And to me, the head coach needs to hold players accountable. Similar to how rookie wide receiver Malik neighbors, we talked about this on our last talking ball live. I had not yet seen his full interviews. I went back, watched the interview, listened to his comments, did some reporting on that. And even though it's okay to be frustrated, and especially as a young player, you're going to wear your heart on your sleeve. In my opinion, Malik neighbors cannot imply that the problems on offense might exist, but they're not him. You have to win and lose as a team. And he's going to learn his lesson, but the problem I had is I feel like the head coach did not, again, hold a player accountable. He says, like when he talks about Deontay Banks, he says, I respect our players. No one's saying you don't respect your player. You're allowed to criticize and critique a player. And you still respect him. It doesn't mean you don't respect him. You need to provide structure. You need to establish a culture. And I just find this very strange to sit there and hear the head coach say about his star wide receiver. Well, he was open. Yeah. Well, how do you feel like that? That makes Greg Van Rottenfield and John Michael Schmitzfield and Daniel Jonesfield. These are other players on the offense, trying to do their job. The offensive line obviously was a huge problem. And the biggest problem on offense, I would argue the play calling was an even bigger problem than the quarterback in that game. But I bring this up to note the dichotomy between Maris saying he's still confident in what this is going to become. And then watching what I see right in front of my face, even Daniel Jones today at his locker here on Thursday, October 24th in Week 8 as they prepare to play the Pittsburgh Steelers. Daniel Jones did something he doesn't usually do. He revealed something that Brian Dable said in private to the team. He was asked if he had any reassurances that if he had a bad quarter or a bad game or a bad play, he wasn't just going to get taken out again. And Jones said that, well, Dable said to the entire team after the game in the locker room that Daniel was the starter going forward. But he said, I'm preparing to play and play well, but as far as his plan, you're going to have to ask him. And that's not headline worthy for a lot of players to say. That's headline worthy for Daniel Jones to say. This is a quarterback who, there have been times where he deserves the blame and deserves to accept it and say that I have to play better. And there are plays he had to make in that game too. But even some signs there of the quarterback tiring, in my opinion, a little bit of the blame game and the lack of accountability being spread all around. He has seen that starting from prior to this season, the finger pointing and blame game going to him, right? The idea that if we get a new quarterback, everything will be right. And so to me, there's just a lot of red flags. It's not even smoke signals. It's red flags about the fact that this operation is not airtight, is not getting better. Of course, all that matters to get a better feeling in the locker room is a victory. So that brings us to the Giants, taking on the Pittsburgh Steelers, a two and five Giants team going to Pittsburgh to face a five and two Steelers team. Interesting storylines abound here. Russell Wilson, of course, easily could have been the Giants quarterback. He visited them in free agency before heading over to Pittsburgh and getting an assurance there. The Giants of course could not guarantee him a starting job and would not guarantee him a starting job because Joe Shane had signed Daniel Jones to a four year, $160 million contract extension in 2023. You think about the ways in which that contract has restricted and hindered the Giants spending and roster operations since. It really feels like this is all going to go back in the end when all is said and done and we're writing the epitaph on why this regime failed, which is the direction it seems like it's heading. It's going to that the inflection point is going to be the decision to tag Saquon and sign Daniel and everything that unfolded from there and not just about the quarterback you're committing to, but also the way that that restricts you from spending elsewhere. And so those details, those glaring details about the coach and the accountability and the culture and then the roster building on the Joe Shane side, not to mention that they still have a crisis in the offensive line they're trying to solve because they don't have adequate talent and depth there. That all flies in the face of what we listen to when we hear John Maris say the words that he did, delivering that vote of confidence. Now in Maris defense, what else is he going to say at this juncture? Obviously it's still early in the season and as Benny Fowler told us on the talking ball with Pat Leonard podcast first down with Benny Fowler after week seven, the Giants are not the Jets. They're not led by Woody Johnson who still thinks his team is a playoff team and admittedly does have more talent on the roster, but is firing a coach to try to get a last ditch, last gap, gasp effort to get his team back in it. The Giants are not going anywhere. Firing Dable at this juncture is not going to quote unquote do anything. So you might as well ride it out to the end of the year to make a decision. And that brings me to one of my main lingering questions in regards to Dable and Shane's job security. John Maris answered that loud and clear, right? But we haven't heard from Steve Tisch. We haven't heard from the Tisch family. We haven't heard from an owner and a family that controls 50% of this landmark NFL franchise. And it's only fair to note that John Maris has delivered votes of confidence and Giants ownership has delivered votes of confidence twice in front of Ben Mcadoo's firing and in front of Joe Judge's firing. And in both of those scenarios in which they put their names on Ben Mcadoo being safe and Joe Judge being safe, in both of those scenarios, the John Maris Steve Tisch dynamic and the evolution of their conversations and either diverging or conflicting or at least, debated opinions have produced the results of those coaches' firings of those changeovers. There's an interesting dynamic that occurs when there are two people who are in 50% control of a billion dollar organization like an NFL franchise. And that's what we have here in New York. Interestingly, of course, in recent years, Tisch Moore receded from the limelight, John Maris and the Maris family, of course, the Giants royal family, so to speak, and the founding family of the franchise. And so Maris, especially now with Tisch receded in the background, has moved as prominently as ever into that role and into that limelight. But I still am curious and I still want to know how patient Steve Tisch and Jonathan Tisch and that family is feeling about this current situation. Because when John Maris says he has confidence in the personnel and the decisions and the development there, I raise an eyebrow because I look at Evan Neal and the fact that it doesn't look like there's a plan to play a number seven overall first round pick. And that we're just talking around the idea that this guy has a chance to get on the field when it appears he really doesn't at all. And I'm looking at K-Von Thibodeau hurt and out and uninjured reserve. I'm looking at Andrew Thomas hurt and out for the season. I'm looking at Daniel Jones benched in week seven and I'm looking at Sequon Barkley, a player I didn't want to leave running all over the team embarrassing them. If you get a chance, you probably don't want to watch it but the miked up on the Philadelphia Eagles Twitter account is a Giants horror movie. It's everything that you didn't want to happen. Now, of course, we do want to talk about how the Giants are going to make this better, where they're going to go from here. And what I want to hear from you, the Giants fans in this chat more than ever, is I want to hear what you think of what John Mayer had to say. I want to hear what you think about whether he's saying the right thing and doing the right thing, if he indeed sticks with the general manager and the coach coming out of this next season into 2025. And I want to hear your preferences and your belief in, if you do think it's the right thing to bring them back, I want to know why. I want to know what you think are the key building blocks. And if you feel like turnover needs to happen, I want to know why you believe change is required as well. Now, of course, I'm grateful to everybody who's tuned in and continuing to grow this community here on the YouTube channel, PL on NFL, and on the Talking Ball with Pat Leonard podcast on the Believe Network. If you're listening on Apple or Spotify, thank you. Please join us next time on YouTube as well. If you're watching or participating or asking questions, thank you so much for being here, for participating. Please, when you're here while you're watching live, give us a thumbs up, hit that like button that helps drive engagement here on YouTube. Also, as I see a super chat rolling in, I believe that was D kit. Let's see who it is. Yes, it looks like it's D kit. Thank you so much D kit. We will get to that shortly. If you want to purchase a super chat as D kit just did, it will elevate your comment or question to the top of the thread. So that means I will answer your question or address your comment immediately or next in the queue. That's a great way to support the channel. 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Go to estate98.com/talkingball to get a special buy one, get one free deal. And before I get into DKit's super chat and we get rolling, it's time for our estate '98 trivia question. So as all of our loyal followers and listeners know, our estate '98 trivia is a trivia we do every chat. And what happens is I will ask you a giants trivia question. And the first person who answers it correctly in the chat will get a free bottle of a state '98 coffee mailed to you. If you are the first person to answer this correctly in the chat, you need to direct message me on Instagram the handle is pl on NFL and send me an address or a PO box that I should send that to you. And I will fire it out and you will get that estate '98 in your mail, at your door and you can try it out. And I promise you'll love it. And then you'll start going to that estate98.com/talkingball to order more. Hope you guys are ready. Here is the estate '98 giants trivia question of the night here on Talking Ball live with Pat Leonard. All right, Dexter Lawrence, giant star defensive tackle leads the NFL with nine sacks at the moment. So that is the third most sacks by a giant through seven games in a season nine. Who are the first two? So which two players had more sacks through their first seven games in a season than Dexter Lawrence for the Giants? Again, which two giants players all time had more than Dexter Lawrence's nine sacks through the first seven games of a season? As we watch the answers roll in, I expect somebody to get this quicker than a lot of people get my trivia questions. I've been stepping my game up lately. I know some people have been struggling there. All right, let's see. First couple answers. D kit says Lawrence Taylor and JPP incorrect. Good guess though. Strider says Michael Strahan and Lawrence Taylor, no. Now, remember the person who guesses it correctly, you have to have both names correct in the same comment. So you have to have both names in your comment. So if you get one out of two, that's not enough. If you get two different ones in two different comments, but they're not in the same comment, that doesn't count. You need to give me both names in the same answer. No one has it yet. So I will get to the super chats and I will go back later to see who drops the correct answer in the queue. All right. D kit says, Pat, please do not tell me that Jones is lashing out about the lack of accountability. All this team has done is make excuses for him. I wouldn't call it lashing out D kit. I do think he's made some pointed comments though that they're hard not to interpret as him getting a little bit tired of always being the scapegoat. I'm on his side in that and I don't mean on his side in that he's not doing anything wrong and that he's playing fine. That's not what I'm saying at all. And I, you know, listen, they were trying to replace him this year, they'll be replacing him next year. I'm sure based on the trajectory of this going. So it's headed that way in that direction anyway. But I would agree with the sentiment here that, like if Daniel Jones is saying, I'm gonna be the team guy and I do have to make more plays, which is what he's saying. He is saying that he's not saying like it's not on me. Like Malik neighbors kind of implied while I was open. I don't know, you know, basically what was left out of that it sounded like was, I don't know about anybody else. I don't know if that's what he intended to say. That's what it sounded like. But Jones isn't saying stuff like that. And certainly they've given him more chances than a lot of people on the outside believe they should have, including the contract, which is what we were talking about earlier, for sure. 82 million reasons why the Giants have shown more confidence in him than most people would. But I personally would side with Daniel on the idea of, this is way more than just him and him getting bench. Like I asked Brian Dable at one point after that game. It might have been on Monday or Sunday, but the idea of like, why didn't you try to change your offensive line in the game before you changed your quarterback? Like, why was it only the quarterback? Why did you not change the left tackle who was getting overwhelmed? And you might not even start this game this week, right? It could be Chris Hubbard at left tackle instead of Josh Azudu this week, despite what we've heard so far. So, yeah, lashing out is not the word I would use. And I understand a lot of Giants fans just wanna see Daniel go and are siding with the organization in that debate. But to me, I think siding with the Giants as if nothing is wrong other than Daniel Jones is not a correct position, that's my opinion. All right, Scorpio, what's up? He says, I can't stand how Dable has not prepared this team for two seasons. He even says it in his postgame. How in the world are you not establishing the run? Scorpio, you know, that's one thing that really gets me is after these games when he says, we put in our preparation, we prepare the right way, we need the results to show up. You're not preparing the right way if you're getting your ass kicked. Sorry, you're not, you know. And I think that there's a lot of cleanup on aisle six going on in Dable's favor right now. You know, people saying that there's nothing wrong with the play calling. You know, there's blame for the receiver drops. There's blame for the quarterback. There's blame for the offensive line. There's blame for Deontay Banks. There's no blame for the head coach. There's no blame for the general manager is so strange. So, oh, it's only the players. The coach isn't in charge of getting the players ready. The coach isn't in charge of making the players play hard. I hope you guys understand when that's happening, right? When you see kind of like the propaganda push or the narrative push from the team side or from the team friendly side. You know, I hope what I'm bringing to you guys is something that's a little bit close, something closer to objective. And yeah, Scorpio, to your point, thank you for the super chat too. Not establishing the run in the first game when the offensive line is not in a position to protect against that pass rush and protect in general without Andrew Thomas, I think, his malpractice as well. And, you know, looking at this matchup that's coming up with the Pittsburgh Steelers, it's a scary one for the Giants. It's a scary one for Brian Dable's play calling and his tendencies and the fact that, you know, establishing the run, not an easy thing to do against Pittsburgh at all. Yes, you can throw on them better than you can run on them, but Pittsburgh's only allowing 14.4 points a game, I think it is, Giants averaging something like 14.1. So basically the Steelers allowing 14 points a game, the Giants scoring 14 points a game. Meanwhile, the Steelers are scoring about nine points more per outing than the Giants. The Steelers have had scored over 30 points in their last two games, one with Justin Fields a quarterback, one with Russell Wilson a quarterback beating down on a Jets team that was thumping the Giants during the large part of their scrimmage together and their joint practice together in the summer. And, you know, one interesting step that stood out to me, and we'll get more into the matchup too as we talk here, but something interesting I found looking at the Steelers quarter by quarter scoring. The Pittsburgh Steelers have not allowed a single point in the third quarter this season. So the Steelers have actually been outscored in the first quarters of games 41 to 19. Then they outscored teams in the second and in the fourth for sure by about, you know, 24 and 22 points per game, respectively. But in third quarters, the Steelers have outscored their opponents 46 to nothing. So the Giants who have scored zero and three points in the first half of their last two games, they'd better change that first half tendency around soon because the Steelers haven't allowed a single point to an opposing team all season in the third. So if the Giants don't get this fixed rapidly, you're looking at a potential shutout into the fourth quarter. I mean, honestly, based on the team you're playing with TJ Watt and Alex Heismith. Now, the good news is the Giants slow starts, of course, matched by the Steelers slow starts. So they've each only scored 19 points per game in the first quarter this season. So maybe even if the Giants take a little bit to find their footing, maybe the Giants can buy some time with the Steelers not getting the score up to anything unreachable and then can get themselves in a flow. So hostile environment, difficult opponent, strong defense, a better defense, a much better defense than the Eagles defense that just dominated the Giants. So it's a scary matchup. I think the one favorable thing you have to look at is Russell Wilson, I do think, might give, put the ball up in the air a little bit, make some opportunities for the Giants defense. Now, this is a crazy stat. The Giants defense does not have an interception this season. Let me say that again, the Giants defense does not have an interception this season. Not only that, they're ranked second to last in the NFL in allowing yards per rush, 5.2 per carry. So they allow 5.2 yards per carry and they don't have an interception on defense this season. Now, like I said, I do think Russell Wilson, you know, talking about Giants sprinkles, maybe Russell Wilson is an odds-on favorite to give the Giants one, give them a turnover, give them an interception on a jump ball that he underthrows, something like that in this game. So I think that if the Giants do win this game, stay competitive in this game, make it a game late into the fourth quarter, I think that will be a reason why. But like I said, the Steelers are aces in the third quarter. The Giants have to do better in the first half of their games, especially starting Monday night. Because then right off of that, you have Washington coming to MetLife the next week. Jaden Daniels has a rib injury, might not play this week, but doesn't sound like it's serious enough to hold him out of that Giants game. We will see, but assuming he comes back, Washington looks like a much better team than the one that the Giants faced in week two that they barely lost to there. So something to watch and something to monitor is the fact that this Monday night game is an enormous one and the Giants need to get their stuff together fast. - All right, looks like we have a winner to our estate 98 trivia question. So the trivia question was, Dexter Lawrence has nine sacks through seven games. Who are the two players who had more sacks as giant through seven games in a season? And the answer is, yes, these are the two names. Thank you, Will, Will gets it correct. The answer is Michael Strahan and Leonard Marshall. Michael Strahan in 2001 had 12 and a half sacks through seven games and Leonard Marshall in 1985 had 11 and a half sacks in the first seven games of that season. So Will, congratulations on winning. Please direct message me your address or a PO box wherever you want me to mail the estate 98 coffee and I will have it sent out to you fourth with, congratulations on winning the estate 98 Giants trivia. You will love this all-natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on-the-go coffee drinkers, ice coffee, hot coffee or latte, great mixer for espresso martinis. Will, congratulations, DM me your address. We'll get that out to you. And I believe who was it? John last chat won the trivia question, did not send me his address. So you guys have to remember to do that or I can't get it out to you. - At your job, do you ever have to deal with a nose roller? How about a snub bully? Well, if you're installing a new conveyor belt system, dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language. Luckily, you've got a team ready to help. Granger's technical product specialists are fluent in maintenance, repair and operations. So whenever you want to talk shop, just reach out. Call clickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. - This is a mini meditation guided by Bombus. Repeat after me. I'm comfy, comfy. I'm cozy, cozy. I have zero blisters on my toes, blisters. And that's 'cause I wear Bombus. The softest sucks underwear and t-shirts that give back. One purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombus.com/listen and use code listen for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/listen and use code listen at checkout. - All right, let's get to our next super chat here. D-Kit, again, checking in. It says with the way defenses are playing us right now, squatting on rounds and not honoring certain parts of the field, I do not see us scoring points unless we start getting some respect in the passing game. Definitely. I do think you do have to try to establish the run even though the Steelers are very good at stopping it. Of course, knowing Brian Dable and knowing that he's also your best offensive player. Malik neighbors will be a focal point of this game. It's going to be, you know, in addition to the coach making excuses essentially for the four neighbors saying I was opening up to the game, you know this is tracking towards feeding the ball constantly to number one, trying to scheme up plays to get him free, get him open, get him in catch and run opportunities, to get Daniel Jones easy completion so neighbors can make a play with the ball at his hands. But the Tyrone Tracy, Devin Singletary, running game, you need to get that established. You need to protect your offensive line and your quarterback if nothing else with, you know, with the run game and with the threat of the run. But certainly what's missing from the Giants offense is it's functionality, it's explosiveness, it's pass protection. A couple of weeks ago, we were able to say they weren't making enough explosive plays. And certainly that was a problem in the Philadelphia game too, especially when you watch Sequon Barkley make so many on the ground on the other side and AJ Brown with that touchdown. But what we saw in the Eagles game was a lack of functionality across the board. It was a reminder and are, you know, kind of a mirror image in a lot of ways of what last season looked like with Andrew Thomas hurt and down. It was like, okay, we've suddenly gone to non-functional and I personally, you know, because I'm around this team daily and I do this for a living, you know, and I see this all the time and I feel like I'm as observant of this as anything. I think Daniel Jones's clock speeds up and when he doesn't trust his pass protection and when he has justifiably so doesn't trust it, everything speeds up and everything gets much worse from his reads to his accuracy, to his ability to stay in the pocket. And, you know, the, I would say the entire offensive line in that last game wasn't good enough. It wasn't like the right side played well and the left didn't, the entire line was not good enough in that game. It was a complete shutdown and Daniel never had a chance. The Giants never had a chance. The offense never had a chance. But the scheme also didn't help them. Not committing to the run didn't help them. And the kid, I think what you hit on there, explosiveness, Ryan Dable spent the first several weeks of the season downplaying how important it is to make explosive plays, saying that, oh, well, I have all these stats that say that a lot of teams don't make that many explosive plays in the grand scheme of things. And now he's talking about how they really need to make explosive plays. So it went from not being a big deal that we were saying this needs to get better to now this is the reason we're not scoring. Well, we were telling you that in the preseason and training camp in week one and week two. So the head coach has come around. All right, let's get to the next chat here. Daniel Hirsch, Daniel, what's up? Welcome back. Thank you. He says all Daniel Jones needs is a good offensive line to be good. Now all Dable needs is a good quarterback to be good. I don't want to wait to find out Dable has been the sole cause of more losses than I can count. See Daniel, I agree more with you there. And again, this isn't, this isn't throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. Like this isn't, two things can be true. Brian Dable can have had a good 2022 season and has had times where he has schemed things up well, right? And it can also be true that really, especially since the set in starting in the second half of that playoff run season, excluding the Vikings and the Colts game and then especially last year, they have hit the skids and he has not had an answer or a solution to stop it or to address it or to stop the bleeding or to, you know, like the Seahawks game that they played and that they won, that was finally a sign of not just a victory and a big win like it felt at the time a couple weeks ago, three weeks ago now, it was also like the, you could feel that the players felt, okay, we finally got to what we are or we finally got to what we can be, what we've been building towards. This is what it is. This is what it looks like. Now let's take it and let's keep going. And the way that they came home against Cincinnati and Philadelphia and just got smashed and spanked and humbled and they've gone back to the drawing board but not just saying, oh, we struggled. I mean, 119 yards of offense against the Eagles, Deontay Banks quitting on the field and Dave will not benching him and not publicly pointing it out in any kind of harsh way. I mean, my goodness. So, you know, I think the, I think the management of the games as well, Daniel, is a huge concern. Like in the Cincinnati game, you know, how could John Mara not see the two different approaches from first half to second half from his head coach there and how one was kind of in reaction to the other and how it wasn't a part of any grand plan, it was just a reaction to what he saw in the moment. You know, I think that Debo is trying hard to keep the locker room and I think that his lack of public criticism of players and I've seen this before. This is not about Brian Debo specifically, it's not personal to him. I've seen this from coaches before, you know, in many different places with the Giants as well where coaches understand that if they lose a locker room, that's an easy way to lose their job and, you know, Debo has lost a lot of coaches in his time here. You know, he's had people above him, certainly bosses questioning him in a lot of different ways. He had his general manager on the headsets, monitoring him for four weeks last year. Ton of coaches left the last two years of their own accord, they didn't want to work here anymore. But last year, he made it through to this third season because he didn't lose the locker room, and players felt like he had put them in a good position in 2022. It was the first time in a while that they felt like they had made any real progress as an organization in a franchise and as players and everything. And so they felt like it's still in there, we see it, you still got it, let's go. But, you know, I think he's playing a dangerous game right now and dancing around holding these guys accountable. I don't like it, I think it's going to snowball on itself and not because I don't want it to, I don't want to be proven right or anything like that. Like that's not why I'm in this. I'm just doing reporting, and I also have seen a lot of situations like this around here, unfortunately. Rick checking in with 50 Bones from Canada. Thank you so much, Rick. And it looks like you're rolling the super chats in here, so I really, really, really appreciate you here. Rick says, Pat, you are on your own island as a reporter. Your honesty with this team that was once the New York Giants, there's no side of anything New York Giants anymore, is the only levity and old New York Giants fan like myself needs, you are barking up all the right trees. Davol's arrogance, the cowardly snickering Joe Shane asking his children who he thinks they would pick, Mara is lost, he is and never will be close to the owner, his father was. Everyone blames Jones. Jones will be a fine mediocre quarterback somewhere else. He's not the problem. It's the whole fundamental drafting of non-gritty players across the board. Look at the Steelers. They are the gritty Steelers during their weakest times. The unrecognizable ghost of a franchise the last 10 years might as well be from Bakerfield. Thank you for doing what you do, man. Rick, I can't thank you enough for all of those super chats, for all of those comments and for the compliments of the work that I'm doing here and at the New York Daily News, here on the Believe Network on the Talking Ball with Pat Leonard podcast. Rick, thank you so much for saying that because it's easy in my position, especially when you're going against the grain in a lot of ways. It's easy to focus only on the people either mocking you or trolling you or being nasty or telling you you're wrong or telling you you're having an agenda and it's easy to read those comments and get frustrated and focused on the negative or the critics in that sense. But I want to take a moment out to thank you, Rick, and thank all everybody who's here tonight for watching, listening, participating, for supporting as you did just now, Rick. I can't thank you enough. I think what makes this a fun exercise and a great podcast and a great, this is something I really enjoy doing with you guys is that it's such a great exchange of ideas and also I think most people here respect that whether we agree or disagree, we're all coming from a place of trying to say something that's thoughtful, that's grounded in whether it's our informed opinion, whether you're a diehard Giants fan or a season ticket holder for 40 years or somebody like me who's covering this team for a living or you're a blogger or a podcast or a content creator yourself, like all of that goes into the pot and I think it's a great exchange of ideas and a great community that we have here. And you know, Rick, I really appreciate all your words. That was really well thought out. That was some good writing right there, to be honest. As a writer myself, as I was sitting here reading it, I thought, man, sounds like Rick could do my job. That's how I was saying reading that. But you're right about the drafting of gritty players. It's interesting you say that because the Giants, like you can tell Brian Dable and what he's trying to push this week to buy himself more time and to get ownership to hear him saying that more time is required is this idea of the Steelers are good because they've built it through consistency and sticking with people through the years and standing by their formula and their philosophy and their process and their general managers and coaches and they haven't had a high turnover because they have patience and success. And it's like, yeah, but to Rick's point, look at the players they draft, look at the quality of the players, the toughness of the players and you sustain consistency when you build and win. Like Mike Tomlin, the whole stat of him not never finishing under 500 and always getting his teams back over that line or up to that line and always seeming like he has a quality team even when the roster doesn't look like he should on paper. That's a big deal, that stat matters a lot. And honestly, this is something I think that is probably going to inform my game preview is that you wanna be the Steelers, you want your owners and your team and your franchise to stand by you and remain confident in your process and not turn things over, then how about you win some damn games? How about you punch people back in the mouth when they punch you instead of rolling over at home and losing 28 to three and getting embarrassed nationally and having Saquan essentially rubbing your noses in it by taking the high ground and not going back in to get his personal record 'cause he just doesn't need to 'cause he already proved this point. How about you be a respectable team on the field and an organization in a franchise that builds towards something rather than going with three wins, four wins, six wins, five wins, and then whining that somebody should show more patience 'cause you'll eventually get it right. How about you just get it right or how about you put a competent product on the field and stop making excuses about injuries or drops or whatever else is, stop pointing the finger at everybody else, point the finger at yourself and figure it out, hold yourself accountable and hold your team accountable. Rick, you're getting me fired up but that is because you supported the channel so well and I'm really fired up about all that support coming in from you, Rick. Thank you so much. Most illest checks in says giants have neighbors and a pass rush, that's about it. Yeah, it's, you know, they have some young players that they feel like can grow into something, you know, Drew Phillips, you know, being one of them in slot corner but Tyro Tracy made was a running back, you know, a new bin, maybe a safety, but right now, you know, those little dots of optimism are being drowned right now by the mistakes and misuse and swings and misses of this regime from general manager to head coach on down. And that's why I think, you know, I want to hear from you guys here, but like I hear John Maris say that and it means something and that's why I wrote about it and said it, you know, just like I did last night when I was there at the Paley Center. By the way, you guys will probably like this as giants fans, go check out, go check out the documentary, it's called the Duke Wellington Maris Giant Life and it's airing on Friday night NFL Network, but also in all the giants social media channels and profiles, you can find it. Obviously game one for the Yankees and Dodgers in the World Series is Friday night. So you're probably not watching that documentary instead of the World Series, but check it out, we had private screening, basically with the entire Maris family, it was honored to be there. Susan McDonald, who is John's sister and Wellington's eldest daughter, spoke extremely eloquently and it was really her passion project, putting this together and shepherding it and NFL films, putting it together and getting it to the finish line to honor her late father and his contributions to the NFL and alongside in conjunction with the Giants, you know, 100 year anniversary this season. And so kudos and credit to Susan McDonald. She did a great job, especially how she spoke about it prior to them showing that. A little levity added to the moment, by the way, like for everybody who thinks that this is not a relationship business, this was actually a pretty funny moment. John Mara spoke to us after the film was shown and it was a, you know, a group of reporters. So the last time John Mara spoke was on August 1st at the unveiling of a mural at a hospital in Hackensack. And at the time he hadn't spoken in a long time about football, I just went right into it asking him about, you know, the Giants and, you know, Shane and Dayball and the team. So this time we get into the press conference and Mara's waiting for someone to ask the question. And so I started off by asking him, you know, what was your favorite part of the documentary about your father? And so that kicks off about four questions about Wellington, Mara, about the documentary, about the film and John's feelings about his father. And he got emotional talking about looking at the interactions of the players with his father, especially late in his life. And so eventually about four questions in, another reporter, Neil Best of Newsday asks, he says, you know, John, you know, he pivots to football and he says, I'm sure you're not something, something along the lines of, I'm sure you're not pleased with where this season is going. And Mara cuts him off and he says, you know, you're the last person I expected to ask me that question, this line of questioning. And he turns to me, basically says, like I had another idea of who might ask it. And I say to John Mara, I said, did you lose a bet? And he laughs and he says, I did lose a bet, I did. That was really funny. He was expecting it to come from me. And for once, it did not. But John knows who's bringing it, that's for sure. So that was funny. By the way, before I get back into the question queue here, wanted to tell you guys who's going to Pittsburgh, by the way, anybody in the chat going to Pittsburgh for the game? Let me see down here in the chat. All right, because, now I'm asking this for a reason. If any of you guys are going to Pittsburgh, I've got a table at City Works in Market Square for nine o'clock on Sunday night. And it's downtown, like I'm staying downtown. City Works is downtown, I know the south side is, is a lot cooler of an area, but I'm flying in, taking the long cab ride or Uber ride into the city. I'm not trying to take another 15, 20 minute Uber ride. I'm going to walk wherever I'm going. But it's as big plays as a lot of TVs. And at 9 p.m. Eastern on Sunday night, I believe it's Cowboys Niners as the Sunday night game. I got a 10 person high top table there. I got a reservation for nine o'clock Eastern. Any of you guys, any of you talking ballers who are in Pittsburgh this weekend are welcome to join me. I know Joey B has been saying he's going to be out there and he's looking to catch up. And I told him that I would try to organize a talking ball meet up. So this is me letting you guys know if anyone's going to be in Pittsburgh, 9 p.m. Eastern Sunday night, City Works downtown in Market Square. I believe the address is like two PPG place, something like that. If you have any questions about it, you can direct message me on Instagram, on PL, on NFL. But that's where I'll be from 9 p.m. For at least a couple hours watching Niners Cowboys hanging out, hopefully talking some giants with you all. All right, let's get back into the queue. Thank you again, by the way. Just want to say to DeKit, Scorpio, Daniel, Rick, Rick, especially, and most illest as well. DeKit with the two super chats too. Thank you so much. All right, let's get back into the queue. Oh, John, okay, I see your note there saying that you direct message me on IG and I didn't answer it. Okay, I will get to that. That must be something I have to accept, that request, and I will get to that immediately, and you will get your estate 98 coffee. Thank you very much for checking in, was just looking for it. All right, Rick says, "What about Brian Dable's resume suggests he can repeat the success he had with Josh Allen? That's looking like the outlier in his career." I agree, Rick. I think that's a rhetorical question you're asking in the sense of Brian Dable's other stops, what we have seen. I mean, it hasn't been anything earth shattering. The one time he became a hot coaching candidate was because he and Josh Allen were working together. But by and large, you look at his stops. See, as an offensive coordinator, he was in Cleveland for two years, Miami for one, and Kansas City for one. And then so that was three teams in four years, didn't stick at any of them. Ends up going back to New England as an assistant coach, three years as the tight ends coach. One year at Alabama where he leaves for Buffalo, but don't know if he was gonna have a second year at Alabama if he didn't leave for Buffalo there either. And then ends up hooking on with Josh Allen, and that lands him the Giants head coaching job. But as you mentioned there, Rick, not a track record of being able to turn things around without the big fella up there in Buffalo. So I agree with you there. Antonio, good to see you. Do I expect the Giants to resign Duke Shelley or maybe pick up Trey Herndon, who was with us through camp with Hawkins Flott and Adori all not practicing today? I would think Shelley could be an option there. I wouldn't think Herndon. With the Giants signing Arm and Watts to the active roster, you expect them to make Jordan Riley an active this week. Yeah, I think deck chairs on the Titanic there, Antonio, not demeaning your question there, but whether Watts is active or Riley's active, I don't even think it matters. I don't think it'll help them one way or another. Watts, though, is a veteran and you would hope is a better player than Riley. So it is possible he could be active. So we will see. Yeah, I mean, Riley did not play well in the snaps that he got against the Eagles. Do I expect all the players that did not practice today to play Monday besides Dexter Lawrence? Good question, Antonio. I do have the injury report ready to give you guys. So the players who did not participate in practice on Thursday, October 24th. Cordale Flott with a groin, Trey Hawkins with an ankle and Adori Jackson with a neck. All three of those are corners. Sounds like Adori, I don't think Adori's gonna play and it doesn't sound like Flott's gonna play either. Dable said he wasn't gonna rule him out, but he's not optimistic. Don't know if Hawkins is going to. We will see, but yes, that's three corners down. So that has them severely short-handed there. Jamie Gillin, the punter did not practice. Dable made it sound like he was gonna try to kick. We never saw him kick and I saw him. He left practice long before it was over. So I don't think he's gonna play as well. Dexter Lawrence, a DNP with a hip. I expect him to play. Ty Summers, the special teamer with an ankle. There's a chance that he gets upgraded to limited and eventually plays. It looked bad in the game. Not sure how bad it actually is. We didn't see him on the field today. So I'm continuing to monitor that. Obviously it was bad enough for him to get carded off, but hopeful that they're not losing a special teamer because another special teamer, Bryce Ford Wheaton, was limited today within Achilles. Don't like hearing that, with limited with Achilles. Don't like hearing that at all. We'll get an update on that on Friday, whether that's something that's serious or not. Brian Burns was added so he was limited with a groin and an Achilles. Again, not something I wanna hear with Brian Burns there, Achilles injury in addition to the groin injury. To me, this is just my opinion. No one's told me this. I don't think Burns is gonna play in this game. Like, you know, now again, this is not a report. I'm not reporting this. No one told me this, okay? This is just me looking at him limping out of the game last Sunday, looking him limping out of the last two games, looking at how I feel like he's really, really struggling physically and fighting through it. And I think he needs, I think he needs a week. And I know they don't have any ground to give here. Like they have to win. But, you know, if he can't go, if he's like 50% right now or not even, if you can rest him a week and then try to play him in a real way next week at home against Washington, which could be a game to save your hides, despite what John Maris said. I mean, if they get blown out on Monday night and they come back and lose big to Washington at home, I mean, what are we even looking at here? So, you know, keep an eye on Brian Burns. I mean, I've been pressed that he's on the field. I love it. I love seeing it. And I was even asking him, what the heck are you even doing out there? How did you even get back on the field? Just a lot of recovery going on for him, but, you know, I'm not sure playing for him on Sunday or on Monday rather in Pittsburgh would result in anything positive. But we'll see, keep monitoring that. And then jail and high at full participation with a rib that was interesting considering it sounds like he has a cracked rib according to Darrell Slater's report. Antonio says, "Do you expect the Giants "to be sellers at the trade deadline? "Could you see them trading slate in Ojilari, et cetera?" Yes, yes, I do. I think so we have, let's see, we have Pittsburgh and then and then we have the Washington game. Yeah, I mean, especially if you're, you know, you're going into this deadline with two wins, I mean, yes. Sladen, Ojilari, trying to think if there's anybody else I'm missing there. I don't know. Try to think if there's any players I'm missing that they might be able to get rid of. Yeah. But yes, I think Darius Sladen makes a lot of sense. See, tricky thing with Aziz is, I mean, you want to remain somewhat competitive as a team, at least John Mara typically does. And if you trade Darius Sladen and Aziz Ojilari, what are you left with? I mean, Aziz has been a better player than Kavan Thibodeau. I mean, I know he's not a perfect player, nobody is, but he's been better than Kavan. So, you fire, or you trade him, you trade Sladen, and who's playing for Sladen and Hyatt? You banged up, not playing well. I get, you know, you signing Hodges to the active roster, just playing him. I mean, they're in a tough spot there. But yes, I mean, if you're Joe Shane, you're trying to accrue capital for next year's draft to go get a quarterback, obviously, from what we hear, you know, some reports that this quarterback class is not the best class to need a quarterback in, so. Ken says, "Great job with last question Monday, pressing table on neighbors, post-game comments, curious if neighbors had any clarification or restatement this week." He is scheduled to talk tomorrow, Friday, the 25th, Ken. So, I'm looking forward to that. My, what I gather from having a couple conversations is that he's, I'm not gonna put words in his mouth, but I think he's going to say something along the lines of that he did not intend to implicate anybody else. He was just answering a question regarding what he was doing and whether the Eagles were able to stop him or not is my guess, what he was gonna say, but you and I both know that what he said sounded like something that was, was putting the onus on other people in the offense. So, that's what it was doing, whether he intended it to or not. Jay Wordzman says, "Watching Rams Vikings." And I see next year's Giants quarterback, Sam Darnold, he looks great, or the Vikings re-signed Darnold and trade J.J. McCarthy to the Giants. This is a solution. Please tell Joe Shane for me. Jay, I love what you're saying, but I think they just needed to draft J.J. in the first place or do something like that rather than, you know, now hoping to get one of these guys next year because bottom line, you know, I think, I think Darnold, if you're Sam Darnold, you coming back to New York, you had that experience with the Jets, you finally escaped to Minnesota and you're playing for this coach and coordinator in this off. - Hey, your job. Do you ever have to deal with a nose roller? How about a snub bully? Well, if you're installing a new conveyor belt system, dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language. Luckily, you've got a team ready to help. Granger's technical product specialists are fluent in maintenance, repair, and operations. So whenever you want to talk shop, just reach out. Call, clickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. - Hence, and you're coming where? Back to New York with Brian Dable on year four, Eke. Now, I think, you know, Benny Fowler actually said this on our podcast a couple of weeks ago, he thinks what they should do in Minnesota is just franchise Sam Darnold. And then, you know, you have him under contract and JJ McCarthy, and you can do the handoff, right? As you're grooming JJ. And also, Darnold, you have to admit, or I have to believe and think that he's going to, first of all, that's another year where he gets paid well. And second of all, you know, what Kevin O'Connell and Darnold have found in each other there as a pairing, that's something Darnold's, he's gonna want as much of that as possible as long as he can. And then, next year, if Darnold continues on this track, great, if JJ looks like the guy too, then maybe you have a trade deadline trade that you can make and you can get something big at a deadline for a guy like Darnold, if you're the Vikings in that scenario, or you have a really good backup quarterback, you know? But that'll be a good problem for Minnesota to have. I think that for them, you know, you're not trying to get rid of one of these quarterbacks at this point, you know? At first, I was thinking, you know, it's JJ's team, it is JJ's team, I mean, it's going to be JJ's team. And so, initially, I was thinking, well, like, you know, Darnold's gonna be available, you let him go elsewhere, and that still could come to pass. But I do like the idea of the Vikings kind of preserving and protecting themselves, and also Darnold continuing to work and develop in a place that appreciates him and understands his talents too. But that'll be interesting to see, Jay. I mean, could Matthew Stafford be a guy next year for the Giants, right? Because like maybe the draft's not working out for them as far as getting a quarterback and it's slim pickens everywhere else, but can they go get a guy like Matt Stafford, you know? Doing that mid-season this year, you know, does that make a lot of sense? You know, versus next year, when they're, if Dable and Shane really are coming back and they absolutely have to win games or else, then again, if Matt Stafford is, you know, going to be leaving Los Angeles and traded from Los Angeles, I guess, is he going to want to be a giant? Is he going to be interested in continuing to play if he's coming to a team that's, that one, two or three or four games the year prior, right? To finish his career, coming with his family across the country? I don't know. Okay. Looks like Gabe is flustered and upset. He says, Pat, how bad do you want Shane and Dable fired? And for the love of all things, holy, let's stop asking the same question of have you talked to ownership and what are their thoughts? Because we all know Dable is not going to give you an answer. Those are private conversations. So Gabe, just so you know, it is not my job to assume that a coach is going to give an answer or not give an answer. My job is to ask the questions that I believe either need to be answered or will provide information that provide clarity to a situation. Also, I do believe that accountability matters. So from my standpoint, whether it's coach, GM, player, agent, whoever it is, I think holding them accountable to their actions, their words, their responsibilities in their job is important and matters. And I do not personally want anybody fired. I resent that comment, to be honest with you. I think that makes like a personal assumption that I am eager for somebody to lose their job. And I think that completely ignores not only all the work that I do on this, but I think it also ignores the professionalism that I've worked my entire life to build. And that is working very hard at being someone who is grounding their opinions and their work in, in facts, in research, in relationships, in objectivity and fairness as much as I can. And so, yeah, have to admit, don't appreciate comments like that. But I know you're just frustrated and I appreciate you, Gabe. Elias says, in the locker room is the defense frustrated at Jones and the offense, especially after Dable threw him under the bus with explosive playmaker comment. I have not seen any offense versus defense comments or anger directly. I have seen that what I thought was interesting was, let me find John Maris comment on this. It was kind of interesting. He said, when he told us, he was wanted to talk about Joe Shane and Brian Dable and put his confidence behind them. And he said, after he says that, he says, I think those are the questions you guys were most concerned about. And that's all I'm going to say about that. I'm not going to dissect individual players' performances or the offense versus the defense or anything like that. So, you know, that was the implication, I think, from the Giants co-owner, that he's well aware of which side of the ball is carrying the team and that the head coach's side of the ball is the one limping to the finish line. All right, let's see, Elias, thank you for that support as always. All right, let's see. Hey, Barb, what's going on, great to see you, as always. Will says, hey, Pat, follow up to my question last week. It looks like Mara gave quite a vote of confidence to Shane and Dable. That said, I am blown away that we continue to risk a Jones injury thoughts. So, the Jones injury question that you just asked, here's what I would say to that. And I would say that as far as risking the injury guarantee, Russell Wilson is fascinatingly the opponent this week in Pittsburgh. And why that's interesting is that you may already know this or most of you may already be aware of this. But last year, when Russell Wilson was on the Denver Broncos, they benched him because they had a $37 million injury guarantee for 2024 in his contract. So, what happened to Russell Wilson last year gets a contract extension, plays two years in Denver, but gets benched mid-season to avoid him suffering or sustaining an injury that's going to trigger $37 million injury guarantee for this year. And then he gets cut, they eat a bunch of dead cap and then he ends up signing with a new team, the Pittsburgh Steelers. The Giants are now in the exact same position the Denver Broncos were in with Russell Wilson, $23 million next year instead of 37 like the Broncos had to think about, but still the same situation. Listen, I think very much will that this is going to be a factor. It always has been a factor in the back of their minds. How could it not be, especially as they have wavered, if not just shown outwardly that they don't truly support this quarterback in a lot of ways. You know, I'm talking about like, you know, the front office and I think in the end will, you're going to see him out of the lineup and that this is going to be a major reason why. In addition to the fact that they're just going to be completely out of it. I think that, you know, I was actually thinking this week, when are we going to see Tommy DeVito? 'Cause Drew Locke, we've seen a little bit of nothing changed when he went in there the other day. We'll see if it gets better if he goes in again, but at what point are we going to see Tommy DeVito in uniform, at what point are we going to see Tommy DeVito in a game or active and on the sideline and eligible to come into a game? Because, you know, sooner or later, there's going to be no reason to be playing Daniel Jones based on where this season is going, just for the injury guarantee standpoint. 'Cause they're not going anywhere, they're not going to win anything. So why lock yourself in there, right? Unless, unless the co-owners believe that this is still their quarterback, like John Merrill would not get into discussing Daniel Jones in the quarterback, he wouldn't get into talking about any players. He said that he wasn't going to dissect any players performance individually. Though he did say regarding Daniel, he said not going to get into critiquing individual players. Obviously, we're struggling on offense right now, but there are a lot of reasons for that. And I don't want to get into critiquing individual players. I've never done that and I never want to do that. So he's citing that there are a lot of reasons they're struggling on offense in addition to Daniel Jones. And I agree with him. So where does that stand? Where does that lead us down the road as far as playing time and taking them out of the game? That'll be interesting to see. Wayne says, "Hi Pat, just joined Big Giants fan "very frustrated with this team. "Why is Jones still starting to veto "give us a spark last year? "He should get a shot." Now, I don't think it would produce significantly better football, but I do think it would be more entertaining and provide a shot in the arm for fans to come into the stands for a couple of weeks. But I'm mentioning DeVito Moore, not in the sense that it will help the team win games and be much better on offense. But I mentioned DeVito in the sense of when you bench Daniel Jones for the injury guarantee, you're doing it. And then Drew Locke, Tommy DeVito, become the next two men up, right? Intel says they need to draft a quarterback. Dekit wants to know what the Giants have to do to win this game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. All right, let's check it out. So, to me, the number one thing, and this works in the Giants favor, is interior pressure on Russell Wilson. So Dexter Lawrence on the interior. If you can press that pocket, Russell Wilson is short, doesn't see well down the field with pressure in his face, doesn't move as well as he used to either. So, interior pressure on Russell Wilson, that's number one, that you have to put right alongside that though, stopping the run. Najee Harris and the Steelers running game. And I would throw Warren, Jalen Warren, and also Justin Fields, the backup quarterback, that stopping the run against the Steelers for the Giants, that has to be a focus for them against any team. Any team that comes out throwing a lot against the Giants right now is just not watching their games and not watching the film. The Giants cannot stop the run. So, in addition to that interior pressure on Russell Wilson, they also need to stop the run or else the Steelers, between their defense and controlling the ball, are just going to smother them. So, to me, you get the run stopped and you get some pressure on Wilson on the interior, right up the middle from Dexter Lawrence on the nose. And that's how you fluster him into some bad throws, into some turnovers. I think your defense that doesn't have an interception yet this season needs to create some of those, needs to get some turnovers, give the offense some short fields to work with. That would be my answer to that. Oh, gee, what's going on? Gary says, "Hi, Pat." Debo looked more relaxed at the podium after the marinuse. I don't think Maris should have done that. Yeah, well, Gary, like I said, you know, in the moment, you give Maris credit and you just report what he said and say, "Hey, here's a vote of confidence. "This is good news for the guys and that's what I did." But as we dissect this and we move on and analyze it, you have to be honest that they said Ben Macadoo was going to be fine and then he got fired and then they came out and there was a vote of confidence from Giants ownership in Joe Judge saying Joe Judge was safe and then he was fired. So usually what happens is that only comes from Giants ownership, the vote of confidence, when it's inching or getting close to the ultimate kind of inflection point of the firing actually happening and the vote of confidence is a way to try to stave it off, to try to kind of urge it forward and to throw their confidence behind them to try to get everybody back on track and then if it continues to go off the rails, it's kind of like, well, when I said it, we weren't two and 10, we were two and five, right? That tends to happen. So, you know, if Dave was complacent, if he gets complacent, then, you know, then we'll see the results on the field. Barb agrees, the play calling was terrible. She would love to see Dable gone. D-Kids says seems to me that there is something we don't know behind the scenes regarding the expectations of this team, that's an interesting point. Michael says, interesting scenario there, it depends on if they rate those two Vikings quarterbacks over the draft class. Will says, "Not making excuses for the players, "especially the young players when it comes "to lack of effort, but good Lord, "we are more than a decade into a brutal run of losing." Yeah, like you said, no excuse though, no excuse, especially for guys who have only been there on the team one or two years. Gabe believes that Daniel Jones deserves all blame. I disagree, but I know plenty of Giants fans feel that way. If you watch the Eagles game and you feel like the offense didn't function because of Daniel, then I don't know what to tell you. You're watching a different game than I was. George has sold four out of the last five games of tickets, going solely to hang out with my dad. Can't watch this brutal football anymore. George, I think you speak for a lot of fans. Will says, "I cannot imagine how the players feel "in such a terrible environment of losing. "These coaches have a tough job changing the culture, "but they certainly do not appear to be helping themselves." That's all Well said, Will. "Since their jobs are safe, "they need to bench Daniel Jones," says John. Short and to the point. Chronicles feels like it is fair to say that I want Debo and Shane fired. The bottom line is you can't flip a whole staff every three years and the disasters you are saying have nothing to do with the team culture, more to deal with you reading into little things. I mean, Gabe, I have no idea how you consider 119 yards of offense a little thing. I hope that one day you recognize how bad that actually is. Also, you can, you don't want to fire regimes every two years or every three years. Of course not. No, you want consistency, Gabe. You're absolutely right about that. But that is not a reason to stick it out with a regime that doesn't know what it's doing or isn't working either, right? So you could want to be patient, but that doesn't mean you stick with a bad operation either. Let's see. Ken says, "Interesting Debo's response to the Russell Wilson question, how he glowing, glowing we spoke of how he made explosive plays last week seems a subtle message about what he wants in a quarterback." That's what I'm talking about. Throwing darts at your own quarterback, right? Let me find that answer so I'm being fair. We'll read it out loud for everybody to hear. This is the Brian Debo answer about Russell Wilson. He says, "We're beyond that, but I will say this with Russell. He's a good football player. He's been a good football player for a long time, did a heck of a job coming back last week against the Jets. Created explosive plays to Pickens since 2018. One of the higher explosive play quarterbacks, 20 plus yard plays, won a Super Bowl, was in another Super Bowl, got a lot of respect for him as a person, as a player. No doubt, that sounds like him saying, this is a quarterback that would have been nice to have because he creates explosive plays and we don't. So again, I go back to, if you're the Giants co-owner, John Marra, this is a head coach who is indirectly passive-aggressively pointing his finger at your own quarterback and at the roster and how he doesn't have what he ideally could have to work with. So that's your leader, that's your culture center. Remember everybody, we're sponsored here by my bookie, mybookie.ag is celebrating its 10th year anniversary, rolling out the red carpet for bettors. If you use my promo code PATSPIX at the link in all my social media profiles, you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. I am crushing it right now. 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Takes me less than 10 seconds to make an estate 98 iced coffee delicious a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte. And it's great as a mixer for espresso martinis. Go to estate98.com/talkandball to get a special buy one, get one free deal. All right, let's roll on here. Ken, that was a good point about the explosives and rust there. OG says at least he got rid of Zach Wilson. I'm so disappointed Mara has given the keys to this regime, says Bombo, interesting. Let's see. OG Knockout says we did everything to screw this kid up. John Mara said, I still think he forced Daniel Jones on them, but it was dumb for Joe Shane to resign him for all of that money. OG says I don't mind bringing Shane and Dabel back, but with a new quarterback, please. Evan says, Jones is done here mentally. He can't do it and physically he does not have enough talent to overcome his deficiencies. Evan says, I don't see the Giants winning many games the rest of the season. I agree. D kit says, clearly I want Shane and Dabel both gone. I certainly do not want them to be able to draft the next quarterback. I have no faith in their ability to turn this team into a winner. I'm no longer concerned about winning any games. I've lowered my bar now. I would like an offensive touchdown just one. Will says I've been saying recently that it's high time that Mara and Tisch hire a third party consultant to assist in making next GM head coach hire, if they let Shane and Dabel go. Will, I think that's a great point. I think that's overdue. The Rams are going to win this game beat the Minnesota Vikings, although that official who didn't call that face mask in the end zone deserves to get fined. Strider says Pat, John is saying what some of us want to hear, which Dabel and Shane need. A chance, but with all the losing, what are the chances of John Mara doing a 180 and changing his mind? I think if the season goes off the rails, Strider, then we've seen in the past that not only John Mara, but the combination of John Mara and Steve Tisch will result in firings if it goes off the rails despite that vote of confidence. That vote of confidence might result in some improvements, in some increased security and some confidence for the players and the leadership, you know, the in the head coach and the general manager, and it could result in a positive way, but it could also go the other, or it could also still just continue to skid and slide. Usually, this tends to be the kind of the comment before it goes off the rails. D Kit would also like the players to play hard, says is that too much to ask, great point. O.G. says Pat. I know Daniel Jones is a great guy off the field, but the Giants didn't pay him to be a good guy. They paid him thinking he'd be a great guy on the field, a great, great player on the field, and it's not gonna happen in this lifetime, Pat. Strider says he's also excited to see a football life-welling to Mara. Gary says Pat, Dabel hasn't been the same since his first season, I believe the coach of the year went to his head, from Bono to Bozo, as John Mara said, to be careful when he was speaking to Brian Dabel and how prescient that was. Evan says he likes how Mara is committed to Shane and Dabel, however, is concerning to see the team lose every week and still have confidence in Dabel. Yeah, Evan, you said that a lot more succinctly than I did, but that was kind of my point, right at the start of this, is just, hey, great that you have that confidence, but all the things I'm watching with my own eyes are telling me why, right? It's making me question what you're saying, and it's very difficult to understand how the confidence remains in a lot of these processes. He mentioned evaluation of personnel. I mean, right now, if you would have, you have more questions about, I have more questions about the evaluation abilities of this front office and coach in personnel than ever at this moment. So I thought that was a little bit alarming there. Let's see, we should bring BJ Hillbacks as Kyler to go next to Dexter Lawrence, he's a free agent. BJ has been playing excellent football, and the Giants certainly did not, even though they got some good capital for Leonard Williams last year, they have not replaced the position next to Dexter Lawrence and he has shown in a big way. Shardis is Pat, John Maris said he believes in Dabel and Shane, so he's saying what some of us Giants fans want to hear, oh, you already said that, right? Got you. Benji says saying isn't enough, Pat, he has to let his play do the talking. Jones always knows he has to play better and picks and chooses when he wants to step up. I think he's always trying, it's just not always happening. Hunter says, "Hope all is well, Pat. "Do you think Dexter Lawrence has a legit shot "of defense of player of the year? "He's second on most betting books and odds. "As of this moment, he does." I mean, if he continues to play at this rate, the rest of the season, he does. It'd be interesting if the Giants felt completely out of it with that, you know, eliminate him from contention. I would think that would make it difficult to win unless, like, if the defense keeps getting better and if they still keep losing, right, then you could see it, but the Giants do have to win some games. Like, it does have to translate into some wins. I think it would be tough for a guy on like a three or four-win team to win it, you know, I don't have a list in front of me of the last time somebody's done that, but to me, the team needs to have a little bit more of a success for him to actually win, I would think. Obviously, though, if he's at the rate he's going, if he's going for, you know, upwards of, if he stays healthy all year and nears 20 sacks as an interior lineman or something like that, obviously, he's gonna be in the mix. Barb says, "I don't wanna see Josh Azudu "on the field ever again." It's incredible, Barb, that he is back on the field with his team after what happened last year, incredible. It's just incredible. Wayne believes Jermaine Aluminor should go to left tackle. OG says, "How come everyone is feeling sorry "for Daniel Jones? "Nobody felt sorry for Ryan Leaf and others like him. "Who is Daniel related to that we don't know about?" I don't feel sorry for Daniel Jones. I just feel like when the finger gets pointed at him and only him, it's just not reflective of what's actually going on with the team. And I think it's scapegoating, that's all. But he's certainly part of the issues and needs to improve, it's just not all him. Benji says he can't come to work one week and vanish another, simple. Strider says, "Pat, after the Seahawks game, "we forgot to run the ball, seriously, no doubt." Stephen says, "Fine with what he said. "What else would he at this point, meeting John Marra? "I don't believe in firing in season, it does no good. "Plus, the way he worded it, leaves it open, "ended to be changed." Well said Stephen, especially I don't anticipate after the season any changes, I agree. I still, for the record, believe there will be changes. I don't know if it'll be both guys, but there will be changes, in my opinion, because I do believe it's gonna keep getting worse tonight, or this year. A2 says, "Look, looks like my hunch "about everyone's job being safe was pretty accurate. "No doubt, A2, you were right, it looks like in season. "We will see, still 10 games to go." Strider says, "Pat, with passing the ball, "the defense is taking the shorter routes away. "They are daring Daniel Jones to beat them "with his arm and Daniel Jones can't." Well, he doesn't have a bad arm throwing deep. In the Eagles game, they couldn't get the ball out, because the sacks were coming and the pressure was there in his lap. That's what happened in the Eagles game. Now there have been other games where Daniel's missed some of those throws, for sure. Yes, in a lot of ways are daring the Giants to hit those plays. Also the Giants are running a lot of the same plays to get short completions, so they're anticipating it and they're driving on these plays, and Wandale's starting to take bigger and bigger hits. Strider says, "Can't forget about Cam Hayward, I know." I mean, really? Well, how many points are the Giants actually going to score this week? Dan says, "They'd better be ready to pay "Jones at injury clause money, "if they plan to put Azudu back out there "at left tackle opposite TJ Watt." No doubt. Strider says, "That is correct, "the two interceptions belong to a rookie linebacker "from UCLA." Benji says, "Caught an interception in week one." At your job, do you ever have to deal with a nose roller? How about a snub bully? Well, if you're installing a new conveyor belt system, dealing with the different components can sound like you're speaking a foreign language. Luckily, you've got a team ready to help. Rangers technical product specialists are fluent in maintenance, repair, and operations. So whenever you want to talk shop, just reach out. Call clickgranger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Let's see. Let's see, okay. Evan says, "Jones cannot read a blitz, "and teams know he won't take deep shots." Strider says, "Benji, he's talking about "the defensive back and safety." Oh, right, on the interceptions, yes. Right, the corner's in the safeties. So, sorry, did I say as a defense? The Giants, DBs, and safeties. None of the Giants, DBs, or safeties has an interception this year. Sorry, I misspoke. That is what I meant. Let's see. Diggy says, "Is Evan kneeled that bad "that he can't at least get a shot at starting left tackle? "Also, why not start to veto? "He's been the only positive thing we've seen "at quarterback since Tyrod, or besides Tyrod." I believe that the Giants have no intention of playing Evan kneeled and it's been like a charade this entire time that they even are pretending to. I don't think they intend to put him on the field at all. And, you know, they certainly have not given him any work at left tackle. I think it's either gonna be Chris Hubbard entering the mix or Josh Zoudu starting again. I think there's a chance it's Chris Hubbard, the guy that got off the Niners practice squad. I think Monday's gonna be a disaster. (somber music) Let's see. Josh Zoudu is not a left tackle. When Daniel Jones is not trusting his protection, he's looking at the rush not his receivers, but it is what it is. Yeah, no, that's right. Pat, I see us with only two more likely wins, four and 13 max for max six and 11. Dave will, she'll get fired. Shane, this past draft showed improvement, but if I am correct on our record, should you go to new GM and coach? I think both, and I do. Yeah, I said four and 13 at the beginning of the year, partially because of the team they were and partially because they always had sustained significant injuries and they always have a lot of guys hurt. Unfortunately, it looks like that is coming to pass especially with the Andrew Thomas injury. So, yes, I agree with you on the record there. I think at this rate, I don't know how bad it's going to get. I know a lot of these players are proud, but if they can't score points on offense, like if they were losing games 24 to 19 and 25 to 20 and stuff like that, then you would say they're going to get some wins here and there, right? But the fact that the offense has gone into the 2023 type mode that they're in right now, I think is pretty scary and that indicates that there's no sure wins on the schedule, which is why I still think four and 13 is on the table. (clears throat) Chronicle says obviously Joe Shane making his kids say who you should pick was a fun moment he has with his family. Don't make it personal against the man. I don't think, I see that as personal. I think what he meant, what, who was it? Rick, he was calling Shane snickering as far as like him waffling and not having conviction and I think was referring also in large part to kind of the way he was conducting himself in a lot of those meetings. Obviously nobody but grudges anybody, any of Shane's family or kids, anything there. But it was one of the lines of the show when his son said, when his son said like you might, you got to go get Jayden Daniels, go get the quarterback, you only have this job once, you might as well try and go win. Jayd, you're really on edge tonight, like it. Oh geez says please, you can put 10 refrigerator parries in front of Daniel Jones and he's still not good. He isn't Sam Donald's stop. KTS says Daniel Jones has no fuel for the position. Stratter says when the Giants were struggling with Wellington with all the losing, he actually asked for help and someone we landed and somehow we landed George Young. That's right, we went outside the organization. Good points, Jayder. Jones is a franchise QB2 says KTS. Chronicle says Jones is lost and if you don't see that you're delusional, he's not the only problem but certainly a part of it. Yes, I think that is 100% correct. He's not the only problem but he's a part of it. I think that's a very well set. Let's see. Jim says Stratter, the NFL suggested George Young to Mara unlikely they would show that favoritism today. Yep, a little history lesson there. Jim agrees 100% with Rick. Intel says stop hating on Pat, love you Intel. Stratter says Pat, John Mara, you said that again, okay. Let's see. Oh, Jesus, Pat, you have to understand I've been taking shit from other Giants fans about Daniel Jones since 2000. Let's see. Bombos says I stand with Rick after hard knocks. I don't know how anybody can want these guys running things. Hard knocks really was an eye opener for people in the league and around the league and also for a lot of fans. Oh, Jesus, let's go Yankees, no doubt. Jim says if I was Mara, I would convene Parcel, Sims, Banks, Coughlin, Carson, and Jimmy Johnson and ask them to help me pick a new coach and GM. I would not trust myself with my record. Let's see. Yeah, John Mara's in a tough place because he wants so badly to win and he doesn't want to press the wrong buttons. So he's trying to be more patient than he has been recently, but will it backfire? Is he being too reactionary to previous regimes and not just evaluating this one accurately enough on his own? Oh, Jesus, when the Giants get a new quarterback, Giants fans will reunite and be won again. Let's see. D-Kid says I think he's losing the locker room because he's reluctant to pull the trigger on trying something different at the quarterback position. We'll see if that's true. Strider says Daniel Jones is going to get killed one day and worried for that game. Yeah, it's going to be bad. John Ray reminds me, yeah. John, send me another direct message on Instagram. It's PL on NFL. I just double checked or the chat didn't see it in there. So please submit or at least show me, tell me in this chat what your handle is. I'll make sure I follow you so we can connect there. Make sure you get that as state 98. (laughs) All right. Hook says, "Tie Summers is my dude from TCU. "I hope he gets better and plays. "What's up, two giant goofballs. "Good to see you." Let's see. Anthony says, "Brown paper bags for sale. "Brown paper bags, two for $3 or four for $5. "Cissors sold separately." Anthony walking through the nosebleeds where we're all sitting selling those brown paper bags that he knows we all need. Marcus says, "Sam Darno is going to command "probably a contract of $160 million for four or five years. "Probably not gonna happen. "We should have taken JJ in the draft. "Should have taken JJ, I agree." That's what it feels like right now. Fran says, "I'm watching Stafford and Darno "going up and down the field. "It's like shoveling shit against the tide "to complete a slant here, terrible." Dave will either, he doesn't care anymore or he knows his job security is very strong, no matter the results right now, says human. O.G. says, "Pat, you're great for real. "Always keeping it real." Fran says, "We don't need neighbors. "Deeva neighbors opening his pie hole. "You've done nothing." Strada says, "Russell Wilson offered to be cheap "and compete and Joe said, "No, DJ is a starting QB and we have $5 million "for Drew Locke." Yeah, the Giants just couldn't guarantee him playing time, right? He could come in and play and show them what he's got, but they couldn't guarantee him any more than that because of what they committed to Daniel Jones and that put them in the spot that they are in. Anthony says, "I will always love the Giants, "but talking about them is about as exciting "as walking through a funeral home. "Dex deserves better and I would love to see him play "for a true contender before he retires." O.G. says, "I still think something is up. "Why keep my Kafka around and what's going to be his future role?" They did it for Optic's reasons. O.G. he was leaving for Seattle to be offensive coordinator there and that would have meant all three coordinators were leaving Dable's staff last year, one fired and two of their own accord and they didn't want that to happen. So they kept him, they denied his request with Seattle and they gave him a title to make it look like they were valuing and promoting him, but really it was just a way to protect themselves optically. And obviously, Kafka went along with it. Pat, just be glad John Mayer isn't Jerry Jones a strider because Jerry Jones would have sold everybody out. Diggy says, "Would you say a quarterback must be able "to make something out of nothing in order to be successful? "To what degree they are able to is what it is, "but if they have no ability to do it, should they get cut?" I do think that there is an element to need, the great quarterbacks can have to be able to elevate everybody around them. So sometimes that includes making something out of nothing. Sometimes that involves being a really strong passer from the pocket, making good reads and making sure that when everybody else does their job, you're rewarding them and putting the ball in the right spot and changing the calls at the line to put everybody in advantageous positions in a run call against a favorable look, or like Jalen Hertz recognizing the go ball on fourth down for the Eagles or whatever it is. But yes, I do agree, Diggy, that being able to make something out of nothing is something that takes a quarterback to another echelon and ultimately is what you're looking for in addition to those other qualities. You don't want a guy who's, obviously, Josh Allen's weaknesses or his shortcomings sometimes are involved in the more fundamental aspects of the game, but he's kind of like a wild stallion out there who does so much well out of structure to that you live with it. France says, "What is needed is a proven head coach "that will kick ass." Strider says, "Run the ball, protect Daniel Jones, "hit Russell Wilson, that's the recipe for success. "Tank for a Camboard 2025," says Skylar, Daniel Jones is in our future. Strider says, "Pat, our edge rushers "are not very good runstoppers, just run stretch plays." Yep, and we said that, I'd said that in the summer. Even starting with just Cave on Thibodeau and Brian Burns, good pass rushers, not known as runstoppers, and here we are. Wayne says, "A good quarterback would have four to five "winds right now." Old says, "Maris statement means very little in my opinion. "Why would anybody expect anything else at this point?" And that's fair too, like what else is he gonna say right now? Old says, "Are we at the point right now "where we need a plane to fly over the stadium "with a banner, with a banner like the old days?" Probably if John Marr is not getting the message yet, yes. Strider, just so you know, for future reference, I answered this question when you asked it earlier, but you don't have to keep asking the question in the chat. I will get to your question. If you want a question answered first or common answer first, you can purchase a super chat. But otherwise, like when you ask those questions, like all you gotta do is ask it once, and I will get to it, so no worries. Anthony says, "The Giants are that horse "that has been laying in the same spot "behind that shed over a decade. "You can beat him all you want, but he ain't getting up. "He's dead." Wayne says, "We had Wilson in the building, "should have signed him for the minimum "as a backup at least. "Guy was a winner." Andre says, "Do you agree? "Part of the problem is that they've never been clear "on whether they're rebuilding or trying to win. "Part of their problem is they always end up "waffling between the two, Andre. "They always end up trying to do both, "and they end up never doing either." Let's see. Yes, brutal call on that Rams Vikings game. Barbara says, "Just like I said, "you're acting another wide receiver "didn't help the team win another Barkley situation." Strider says, "Just let Daniel Jones walk." It's hard to tell Daniel Jones support of this, but you love him so much. You need to learn how to let go. One of my questions about the running game, we face the Seahawks and run the ball well. The Bengals and Eagles, we can't run the ball. What's going on? They definitely recognize some looks in that Seahawks game. I think they found something, but then the Bengals and Eagles saw it on film and adjusted, so they caught the Seahawks off guard. They were running very well out of 11 personnel, but the Eagles played most of the game in nickel personnel, nickel or dime, and the Giants still couldn't run the ball. So they're definitely coming downhill, filling the gaps, and reading what the Giants are trying to do. Strider said, "Remember when Shane said "you can't screw up picks five and seven, "not looking good." Daniel Jones says, "A hundred million reasons "not to worry about the hate," says Hunter. "When does Joe Shane speak at the bye week," says Evan? Yes, at the bye week. Mike says, "I believe in Joe Shane "cautiously optimistic. "Obviously Daniel Jones' contract over Saquon was risky, "and a mistake, but his draft picks and reasoning behind them, "I can get behind Burns trade also good." Interesting that you think those are good, Mike. I think his drafts have been below average, and I do believe that the Burns trade, while Burns is a good player, I think he could have used those assets to get a different edge rusher, a corner in the draft, plus had money left over either the signed Saquon or something else. Mike says, "Hopefully Carm will help Shane draft good O line." Chris Nays out there trying to help as well. We need depth as if one of our starting tackles gets injured, we are screwed, no doubt. Hunter says, "At this point, we need a line of Giants, "Eric Flowers, Nate Solder, Josh Azudu, Evan Neal." Mike says, "Frankize QB priority number one. "I trust Shane and Dave O and find in the right guy, "Dable said he would have traded up for Daniels." And he was right. Yeah, a lot of, everybody liked Jaden Daniels. Yes, Steelers are a scary defense. Shredder believes Tyler Newcomb will get the first interception for the secondary. Mike says, "Thomas being offered the season "is probably the worst injury possible for this team. "He's the least replaceable player on offense, "and it showed against a bum Philly pass rush, no doubt. "Gentlemen picked Andrew Thomas, Love McKinney, et cetera. "Shane is missing with his draft picks," says Barb. Mike says, "I trust Dable's ability to advise Shane "on the best QB available in the draft, "especially from hard knocks. "Shane had a very good draft, in my opinion," says Mike. Malik is legit, Nubin solid. I think Nubin's been spotty. Drew Phillips held Devontay Smith to negative two yards and might be the best rookie corner. Tyrone Tracy shows flashes and Theo good athleticism. Yes, Smith was open on a couple of plays where Hurts didn't throw to him, but obviously Phillips has been a plus. Barb is just, "Gentlemen made a mistake in drafting Daniel, "but Shane made a bigger mistake "in extending it with a huge contract." D-Kid says, "Pat, to be clear, "the criticism of Jones' performance is by no means "to be mistaken as an excuse for Dable's an aptitude. "On the contrary, it highlights it both Moscow. "I agree with you, D-Kid there. "I think a lot of people are using it "as a Dable versus Jones argument, "but I agree with you." Jomar says, "Shadora, the Giants need to change "that quarterback, they are lacking Aura." Let's see. Authentic says, "If they fire the coach, "that would be the third coach Daniel Jones "has gotten fired, you'll have to be patient, "let them get their quarterback, "look at Houston and Washington." Mike says, "Who do you think the Giants "should draft in round one, Cam Ward?" I don't have an opinion yet on who they should draft there. Need to study those guys more. Whether we keep Dable or not, whoever selects the next quarterback has to stay for at least three years, says for sure. You can't blame the defense if we don't believe in Daniel Jones. They know, they don't, so after a while, they probably feel like they're playing for nothing, which can cause quit. It's the second straight season this has happened to the defense too, that's the other thing. Not trying to be funny, but do you think next year will be the first time the Giants draft a black quarterback for show KB says. It could be, it could be for sure, no doubt about it. If they had had a higher draft pick, it might have been this year too. Let's see. Mike says, "Not throwing for a touchdown at home "in more than a year is atrociously inexcusable. "It's an atrocity. "If we keep Daniel Jones at this rate, "well, at least lose all our home games at the rate "this is going, including for next season." Evan says, "Giant need to target late round guards "and tackles moving forward. "Can't rely on veterans to hold up the O line." Yeah, they need to draft better linemen, right? Like that first draft was Evan Neal Azudu and Marcus McKethan, Wolf. Mike says, "21 points is super manageable to outscore. "Offens can't even outscore 17 against Bengals "or 20 against Dallas." Bronx says he would take an orange quarterback at this point and Barbara says, "Marrah is going to start looking "at empty seats in that dump of a stadium." Right, and then we know what's next when the seats start to empty. Usually it results in the opposite of what Marrah said. He said he doesn't anticipate change. He said there's no change coming this season. We will see if that holds if they keep losing and the seats are empty in the second half of the year. Guys, thank you so much for this chat. This has been so much fun talking about live with Pat Leonard, previewing giant Steelers and talking about John Marrah's vote of confidence in Brian Dabel and Joe Shane. Remember, we will be doing talking ball post game live from Pittsburgh, from the Steelers Stadium after the game on Monday night football. So it'll be a late one, but it'll be a fun one. We'll do a quick but in depth recap of what I see at the stadium and what I learn and hear and see in the locker room after the Giants play that game against Russell Wilson, Mike Tomlin, TJ Watt and the Pittsburgh Steelers. Of course, I'm the NFL columnist and giant speed writer for the New York Daily News and the host of Talking Ball with Pat Leonard on the Talking Ball podcast on the Believe Network. We are sponsored by my bookie use the promo code PATSPIX to get a 100% match on your first deposit or $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Click on the link in any of my social media profiles and use that PATSPIX promo. My bookie bet anything, anytime, anywhere. I'm crushing it against the spreads. Go to my Instagram account, PEL on NFL. Check out my record against the spreads in the last couple of weeks, five and one on PATSPIX. I give out three every week plus or for my giant sprinkles, the vets on the Giants game where you can win some extra cash. Look for that. Also brought to you by BoomChock at Mushroom SuperDrink and Natural Extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. 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Takes me 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 ice coffee a minute more to make a hot coffee or latte and it's great as a mixer for espresso martinis. Go to estate 98.com/talkingball to get a special buy one, get one free deal. Hooks says, do we have a new solution at left tackle this week? I heard they brought in some lineman to look at. DJ Humphreys, they brought in for a workout. They both said nothing doing there yet. They got to know each other. I think it's because Humphreys wants some real money and we'll see if the Giants are going to pay that yet. Maybe not this week, but maybe they'll decide differently after playing the Steelers we will see. Looks right now like it's going to either be Josh Azudu or Chris Hubbard at left tackle or they could end up moving Jermaine Alumino to left tackle and putting Chris Hubbard at right tackle because that's more of his natural position. But obviously if Alumino has been playing there already maybe you put Hubbard on the left either way creates a big problem. Mike says, Pat, did you know the Giants of the second worst home record gets to his first? The Jets, MetLife Stadium has no home field advantage. Makes sense because the stadium stinks. Hooks says, thanks Pat. Barbara says, good deal Pat respect. So does Amafan and Bronx boy says Pasquale. See you pal guys. Thank you so much for a great, great chat. Thank you especially to D kit. Scorpio D kit again, Daniel Hirsch. A bunch of big time super chats from Rick Hoffman who told it like it was. Most illest and Elias and everybody else who dropped in some great comments. Hit those like buttons before you go out of here while we are live helps the chat, helps the channel and helps live in it up and tells the algorithm what we are doing here. And that is continuing to build a great community, a fun and interactive community with Giants and NFL fans talking about the entire league but especially about your favorite team here. Big blue as they're known even though two and five limping into Pittsburgh looking for a win against Mike Tomlin's five and two team desperate for a victory even after John Mara declares confidence in Joe Shane and Brian Dable. This has been Pat Leonard here on Thursday, October 24th saying so long from New Jersey and looking forward to talking ball post game live Monday night from Pittsburgh after Monday night football. We will see you then right here on the PL on NFL YouTube channel after the game. See you later. - If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat literally. But don't sweat it, Granger has you covered. 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New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard analyzes Giants co-owner John Mara's vote of confidence in GM Joe Schoen and Brian Daboll, previews the Giants' Week 8 Monday Night Football visit to the Pittsburgh Steelers and discusses what it will take for Schoen and Daboll to prove Mara right @Bleav.