Radio Miraya
2665: Democracy in Action: The Role of Political Parties in Promoting Democracy
democracy in action a program on how a state functions featuring in-depth discussions with experts on governance politics and decision-making tuning as every week we explore the complexities of governance what is democracy what is your role as a citizen all these and more in democracy in action does they have 9 a.m. with a repeat at 9 p.m. the same day stay informed and engage with democracy in action radio me right the voice of peace hello and welcome to democracy in action with me sonimatine in our episode this morning or today we shall be looking at the role of political parties in promoting democracy in our country south Sudan and that's what we are going to be discussing and our lines will be open to you later on where you can call us on 091 to 0 sausage 20 79 or 091 to 0 6 2950 those are all our lines you can call and be part of our discussion and in the studio we will be discussing more about this topic with our two guests or three guests one will be online and two are ready with me here in the studio and as we explore more about the role of political parties in promoting democracy and I am joined in the studio by Honorable Bob Toby Madot who is the leader of South Sudan African National Congress Sanum Party and also a member of the reconstituted transgendered national legislative assembly here in Juba welcome to ready Mira Honorable thank you Father Sonny Martin I'm very happy to be back in ready very stereo and also to share the studio with my brother Dr. Jim is Okok thank you very much and greetings good morning to all the listeners of ready Mira yes and thank you for helping me to introduce my next guest Dr. James Okok who is a political analyst and he has been here many times welcome to ready Mira thank you Sonny Martin for getting us to discuss this critical matter at the time we we are already approaching election yes just a few months to election yes we have also on the line here Paul Wani who is a political affairs officer working for the United Nations mission in South Sudan he joins us on the line good morning Paul and welcome to the program good morning Sonny and thank you quite a good morning to all our listeners okay first of all let's begin now with a very simple analysis Dr. James Okok when we talk about the role of a political parties in promoting democracy in our country South Sudan looking at the context that just you have put it in your introduction that we are approaching our first election since South Sudan got independence in 2011 so first of all what are the critical roles of these political parties in terms of promoting democracy because we know that there are so many according to the political party council what I was told there are 66 political parties so there may be more yeah thank you Sonny once more before I get to the role of political parties let's know also what is a political party yes so we according to academic references the political party is a group of people who have more or less similar ideas and they they want to influence the public opinion so that they get their candidates to the office and getting to the office there are many methods the most acceptable methods in our century is the democratic method competition with others on the on the influence and the vote of the people so that they become part of the government and then they can implement their policies they can implement their ideologies and and direct the country to what a particular N or M's so this is generally what we understand by a political party now coming to their roles of course their role is connected with this divination they supposed to really develop ideas and some time this is what you call ideology so they supposed to have these ideas and then they tell the people that once we are the government or we are in the government then we will follow these ideas and these ideas are supposed to contribute to the welfare of the people and then they become the authority to to lead these ideas and these ideas some of them are translated into laws some into policies into regulation and then into action so this is what they supposed to do but for them to do that they have to be influential because if they are not influential nobody will even take note of their ideas so the influence they create between the people and even the government that is there if they are not yet in the government that influence is very important for them to move forward their ideology and their program and because of that their role is to educate educate the people about what is good for the country and what need to be prioritized in the country so that education makes people to be aware and then they start joining them that's where the membership of the political parties become very important and the more they have members the more influential they become yeah the less they have members then the influence become a bit limited you know and with that they need a strong leadership yeah to lead them and also to be the one telling them let's do it this way let's do it this way and that those leaders are respected and then the membership really follow them and and and that become the the role that they they play in in producing leaders in the country and then go for fair and free democratic election so that whoever is lucky among them and whoever is more influential on the vote of the people can become the government of the day or they become a coalition of the government without us if they cannot make it alone right so this is the general role that political parties are supposed to play and they have to play this within the rule of law yeah there will always be an at-pass in the parliament to regulate how how how political parties should complete this okay we shall be coming back to you later on now let's find out more from a honorable bowl you are a member of parliament you also the leader of the South Sudan African National Union the Sano party the same question more or less like what I asked Dr. James Auk earlier what role do political parties in South Sudan play to promote democracy and also can political parties achieve its role as a single party or like James Auk said they have to form a coalition thank you very much brother Sonny Margin I don't want to repeat things that my brother Dr. Jim is a cook explain yeah they're very clear but I want to pick up two things that he talked about one is the influence of the political party and also the second thing was the the method that the political party follow to get to the political power or to the seat these two things have been forgotten in South Sudan South Sudan since we gain our independent we came from a very long civil war and when we gain our independent the first thing that the government was working on is to establish a democratic political system where things how it could be done and one of the very important and crucially steps that was supposed to take place is to separate the political parties parties from the element of the army and this process started very well and that's where the SPLM and the SPLA were separated and the SPLM become a political party and the SPLA become now what we know as a South Sudan people defense forces it's not connected to the party these steps were very important now go back to the two things that I said I want to talk about the influence that people of South Sudan did not know that where the party it's by the number the weight of the party it's how much members they have in a different part of South Sudan that's the influence that the party have and that's the influence that helped the party to gain to the seat through the election now the method that the party should get the seat is through the election we never had an election in South Sudan since independent of South Sudan and now the people of South Sudan are fearing when they say we go in for election are fearing why they are fearing because it's the first time they go to the election they won the election they won the election but then the fear it's unknown fear it's fear of something that they don't know now the political parties that they don't want to go to the election and that will take us back to the step that I said earlier where there was a separation of what we wanted to purify the political parties to take away the element of the army now when the crisis happened in 2013 the process did not complete itself now the parties that went out to the world when we came back and we signed a game and there is some political parties that came back with an element of army in it so that one took us back to make sure that we are not actually in a political democratic dispensation yet we need to work on that step first now those parties that have an army on when people are talking about going to election they inject some fear into the people of South Sudan where they said if we go to the election then we will go back to square one square one is what they look talking about war why are they talking about that because they have an element of army in the system of the party yeah and now when they say that it's because to fear the people of South Sudan but I want to take this opportunity to tell the people of South Sudan do not fear we have here different countries where they talk about issues and problems that may arise if they go to election but they have gone to election in our region we have our neighbor country Kenya every time when they go for election there is a rumor and there's a lot of talk that this will happen and that will happen but they go through election and now Kenya is okay people are travel there and they are traveling out and things are moving forward South Sudan will have to overcome this fear and we need to go to election it will not be a perfect election but it will be any step that we can start from what can be done to overcome that kind of fear where like you rightly put it when people talk about the election people think of going back to square one what what you know kind of political party like us play in order to remove that fear away from either the political parties themselves or the people the citizens this will take us back to what my brother Dr. Jim is a cook set early educating our citizen there is nothing will take us to square one there's nothing will take us to war because people of South Sudan are tired people of South Sudan are tired of the instability of the war that we have been going through and they want to have a peace in their country now that alone it's enough to take away that fear but we need to come as a leaders of this country the political parties they need to come out and say let's go for election and we will face the challenges that are ahead of us and this is what Sano party is doing now telling the people of South Sudan let's go forward let's move forward and face the challenges that are ahead of us if it's an agreement it's an agreement signed between us as a brothers in this country so we tell we can sit down and we can see how we can overcome the challenges of the agreement and then we can move forward okay let me pick again from my what James Cook said that for you to have the influence you must have people around the country your supporters and your numbers to grow but many people in this country have said that most of these political parties sometimes a briefcase sometimes they are centered here in Juba they don't have presence at the state levels sometimes they may have only at the state capitals but not in the counties and bombers what is your take on that as a leader of Sano this is a reality yes we have some political parties that are small inside something not they don't have a present in a different different states and in different places but our laws the political party act has a solution for some of stuff like that where the political party that may see themselves small they can come in coalition and they can form one party or they can work together as long as they provide the legal requirement to reduce that as a political party then they can move forward and then they can go through the election but we cannot diminish or take away the process and the exercise of the election because there's some parties that may not qualify for election I'm sure within all these big number of political parties that we have in South Sudan we will have acquired a few numbers that will qualify to go for an election and if there's a few they probably have a candidate and if they have candidates then we can go through the election we need to go for an election within our coalition of national agenda group that we are in Sano party came clear from the beginning that we are with the election and we are going to work for the election and we're working with our members in different states and the three administration area to prepare ourselves for the election when we came and we said with our coalition we came out a few days ago with the with our position where we are with the election now let me let me give a little clarification here when we said that we are as a coalition with an election to take place as is to be related in the agreement and the roadmap within the national agenda group we have 12 political parties plus DC so it's 13 political party there is some parties that probably we're not ready to present the candidate and to run for the election but those parties even though within their party they are not fully organized and ready for election but they believe that the election should take place so they are supporting the election take place even though they may not be organized ready for the election Sano is organized ready Sano is for the election Sano is saying let's give the power back to the people of South Sudan to decide who should lead them all right he is a poor whiny we are the animist political affairs officer and the enemies has been playing a big role in empowering and supporting political parties in South Sudan maybe briefly can you tell us the role of enemies in in terms of supporting political parties in this country what do you do as the enemies yeah thank you so much Sonny for the question and thank you for the colleagues in the studio they are doing a great job elaborating and then educating our listeners let me pick it up from here that the enemies have been partying so closely with the political parties to be able to help them one of these reasons one of the things that armies has been doing is to support the development of civic and political space and for political political space in particular initiated the political parties forum political parties forum is a new form of forum that armies thought was very important to be able to bring political parties together so that they're able to discuss important or pavement national issues if we had to look at the political parties forum in particular we initiated it way back in I think in 2016 if you can remember very well after the 13th crisis then the the the the the the argument that was signed in 2015 in 2016 the government of national political is formed but again those mistrust among the political players in the country so I miss thought it would be good to create a informal forum to be able to bring this political parties together to discuss issues national development and and and one of the tips of the not of the political parties forum is to provide an informal forum for political parties represent artists to come together and then to be able to create a rapport among themselves and do away with the mistrust among the politicians and then also be able for the politicians to be able to to talk together and come back come out with the answers for the to the questions that the cities were asking regarding the peace regarding the governance of this country and so many other reasons and then you can remember that in 2016 when the the national dialogue was initiated as I say parties were not okay so one of the reasons was to share comparative experiences from other decisions with political leaders to provide service for them as they consider the the greater good of South Sudan and in 2016 when the national dialogue was initiated the South Sudan is only supported also the these politicians came together to form the national dialogue we supported them and they were they were they were taken out of Africa to be able to learn from the South African experience and when they came back when they came back from there there some parties which were not actually interested in the national dialogue they together and they were able to continue discussing that right and then to yeah very very important also to mention is that the only through the mission leadership the mission leadership good offices engage the top leadership of this trade calling upon them to support the development of civic and political space in this country okay as we are going towards election this year there's supposed to be a state created so that all these political parties that you mentioned able to engage and tell them because at the end of it all the nationals of this country need to elect people into government it should be yes we'll be coming back to you it's certainly let's hear from Dr. Jamso Cook whose voice has been eloquent about issues to do with the political affairs of this country Dr. Jamso in terms of policy making in a country like ours South Sudan where it really thinks are beginning to come out we are beginning from scratch or from zero has many people have said we were supposed to have a election in 2015 and by now we would be having our second election I think if the time was supposed to be five years five years should be having the election should have election last year or will be having election this year if my mathematics is very correct but right now the question I will be asking is in terms of policy making how can a political party influence the states decision-making apparatus to advance the interest of the people and the country when enacting policies okay thanks Sandy Martin because policy making is part of it's part of the influence that I was talking about that political parties are supposed to be ahead in and then they these ideas they translate into policies and these policies guide the government once these parties manage to become part of the government or when they become the government so in a country like like South Sudan the situation of the the situation of the political parties is a bit it's a bit confused and we understand why the why the confusion in all these when we talk of political parties actually sometime we mix them even with military parties yeah that mixture is still existing in South Sudan and we understand now if you go to the registry of of the political parties in the political party council you will find that may be like 14 they have registered and the rest are still struggling and others are still having military military wing of their of their parties and a party that has a military wing it's not supposed to be called a political party actually yeah by law they supposed to be civilian by nature in all these because we understand you are here dr. James O' Cook in 2010 I think people were told to relinquish their military uniform and join politics I remember very well exactly that's what supposed to happen but now look at even the defection those who defect with military uniform they are brought to the SPLM hours the next day and they are portraying the party of the numbers this is the mixture and the confusion I'm talking about and and this is not good news for civic education are also for civic competition also for the civic space are also for political space because when you mix the uniform with the civilian I don't know how they how they melt together the two are supposed to be separate and this is the challenge we see a love with our political parties today let us start from the the mother parties that we think that is the the biggest party that is the SPLM internally SPLM need a lot of work for it to become a political party they know the other political party they have been a movement but for them to transit into a civilian political party is very difficult they they I don't want to speak for them but if a member of SPLM sits to do here right now they will say no we have all the structures on ground we have the numbers we have the people we have everything yeah but who are these people some of them are right I mean they are what you know as a mixture of own confusion but you get in the SPLM I know you so this mixture of confusion yeah it has its own challenges and and that's why it creates fear that you are saying people think if we go to to competition with this mixture and confusion I read some of these member are even military uniform yeah the following day you get them in red and then they are the day you get them with rank this is the own confusion that you have not only that there is another confusion of the parties to the agreement it's not a very party to the agreement that is a political party by the way because there is there is a process and there is a low that guide the political parties so if you have not gone through that legal process you cannot just call yourself a political party you can name yourself but legally you are not because there are there are things that are missing in this so there is also that confusion the parties that sign the agreement and then the political parties these are total total different things this need to be defined very well if the parties to the agreement some of them are not political parties they have to transit now and into political parties and go according to to the law and it's very clear why the political parties council was established is to regulate the parties as they transit so that you know they stand at that are required they are met and then now that party can be registered if they find themselves like what do you say that they cannot meet the the criteria they have the right to to come together coilies or form an alliance and give themselves a name and then they now meet the criteria then they can register by that name and then go to competing the election this is a very a very a very confused process and I am a bit skeptical yeah whether the political parties council will really manage this confusion yeah because the is one thing that that is a bit tricky yeah when we go to the election because and is one thing that also some of the some of the parties to the agreement are saying let us complete the security arrangement because some of them are here holding military wing so if they have not completed the security arrangement so that they can and over their soldiers to the government yeah and then they remain as parties and then they go to compete it will be very difficult for them to register they won't get registered in in the political parties council okay and if they are not registered the National Election Commission will not admit them to go and compete during the election so this is where the dialogue is needed from this party so that they are made to understand what is this important but then the condition like fire for example why does SPL in this that people should go for election people should not go for election because there are prerequisite yeah of the agreement and the first prerequisite is the security arrangement yeah because the the SPL of IO is not yet a political party okay they they are in transition so they need to to get rid of their soldiers so that they can become the political party and then now they can go and compete at the at the current state is very difficult for them now let us see him with NDM NDM also has its own wing they seem with the party of the the vice the vice president of the same of their buggy they're still military so and then others so they they still have a long way to clear themselves okay from the military wing then they can go even the SPLM actually SPLM has has to clear itself also from these military wing of the defection those who defect to them they need to disown them and say you know it was a mistake to have brought them to the SPLM house we don't have anything to do with them we are poor we are purely maybe this are some of the thing that they need to clarify because otherwise the law can kite up with them and it will be very difficult for them to get registered for the competition or the election now let us look at the practical part before we hear from Honorable I will ask you the same question Honorable about now with just nine months to the expected general election in December as per the road map what are the practical steps the parties right now can do to ensure that we have at least a kind of democracy in our country and the political parties play their role as we move towards the election those who may get registered and also those who may not because this will not be the end of the game elections are here to come because we have from OPP I am told they are 20 political parties they so have nine political parties and the rest and the rest so what can they do right now to ensure that we have a sumos a path towards December let's begin with the Honorable Bob thank you brother Sonny Martin first of all I wanted to go back and answer a question I talk a little bit about the question that you ask our representative of unanimous earlier political affairs yes the role of unanimous has been noticed unanimous have played a great role in supporting the political parties in South Sudan here but it is not enough the parties need more support and I think what was happening prior to to the crisis there was a USA funding organization called IRI and there was a DI yeah when they pull out it left a big vacuum on the political parties in South Sudan where they were not able to do their work unanimous is helping political parties but it helped me in a uniform help where the political parties have their needs a simple thing like a carrying a communication with their members using a facility these things are blocked and unanimous is not able to help the political parties in that area and there is nowhere there where the political parties can run to go and get some support the political party act prevent the political parties from seeking support from any foreign entity or foreign organization or foreign country so union is supposed to be the only available organization that can extend their hand and help this political party especially we are cutting closer now nano machine little election election the mob it him low political parties are more you know them a good little maras we don't feel I have the counties and fibomas and they are not able to get there a simple thing as a transport union is provide a transport flights from here to the states when a political party come a request a support of a system of travel from the state from Duba here Muslim to any other state she and she got well minus before yeah we move together there is no support in that area yeah and the cost of money of travel from here to states some of the political parties cannot afford it away because you should be having member contribution mentally yes we have members fee and I can take sono sono it is actually the oldest political party in South Sudan and we have members in all the states but 90% of our members are not working they have no money they are fighting to feed their children at home they're fighting to fight to pay for the school fees of the children we're not going to grab a little bit that they have that they're feeding the children with so we can go and travel me from here to our will of travel from here to Jungole to go and host and have a meeting with the members and do a rally there the question they are paying yeah they are paying and what they're paying is what keep the office of Sano party open it's what make Sano party go and do a rally in Yakur it's what makes Sano party do a rally in in Jungole it's what makes Sano party go to Eastern Quaternities and do a rally it's what makes Sano party make an event in in northern Barraza it's what makes Sano party happen the sports team in northern Barraza but it is not enough to carry most of important essential process and things that supposed to be done by the political party the question people will be asking is if you can't organize yourself and transport to one member viewers from here to Malakar and from here to Warab and you are aiming to capture power how will you manage the entire country if you can't manage your your small party I'm not saying that we are not able to manage I have just given you a list of things that party have done yeah but what I'm saying when we're seeking a support yeah if the political so what kind of support do you want now if you name is if only means for example give Sano party five flight seats from Yuba to to Eastern to Western Equatorial yes now the money that the party was gonna use for this ticket they can use them to do something within the area there with the members in Western Equatorial that is supportive it's happened you see now let's go back to what we talk about it here about the agreement and my colleague here talk in length about the issues and the challenges that we are facing when we're talking about the parties that have an element of military wing within their parties once the agreement was signed all the people with the uniform they were supposed to go to the control scenarios they were supposed to hand their guns and hand their their uniform and go to the containment area and then the process of the training and graduation of the uniform offices we're supposed to take place the first face is done the second face have started if we put our hand together and make sure this is done then we are able to say okay that part is done and the uniform already been out from all these political parties and then they can come as pure political parties to seek a registration as a party with no military wing you see this is important and nobody will do that except the party itself the leadership of party should be hard on making sure this is taken care of to be done number two yes my brother said earlier some of the things were point point out by some political parties signatories to the agreement those part is signatories to agreement they were not parties yet they were signatories to agreement now once we come in the process of implementation the agreement the process of registering those political parties was going to happen before the election now they will become political party and then they will go for election with the registration that they were received from the political party council the issues that we have that they saying are preventing one for example is issue of the of the constitution we should have permanent constitution because the agreement has noted out that we're supposed to have a permanent constitution that will lead us to the election now the permanent constitution is not done but that shouldn't be a reason for us not to go for an election because we have a constitution that the country's run with right now okay we can use that constitution to go to election and then when the president is elected now the president will hold him accountable to make sure that the constitution is done all right in the timeline and if it's not done within the timeline we know who to ask okay because now we have an elected president that was supposed to go and get one and two done and if they're not done then they know who to ask okay we are now opening up our lines are for people to call 091-2079 or 091-06 2950 or you can send us your comment to SMS number 091-2177-141 those are all our lines you can get in touch with us here and we do have a couple of questions coming by our SMS number here and this one is coming from Philip Philip is writing from Appanel in Malakal town of Appanel and he says my question is going direct to Dr. James O' Cook and thanks for your elaborate discussion this morning you are always very eloquent on matters of this country he won't ask you as a political analyst what will it take to separate the military wing for from any political parties in South Sudan because this seems to be like five and six there's so much connected to each other that's from Philip in Malakal the second question here is coming in from Jackson in Tomping in Cuba here he says my question is also going to Dr. James O' Cook what is your general reading of some of the political parties in this country do they have the capacity to influence any decision-making like you said earlier that's from Jackson in Cuba and then another question here is coming in from a toot me care in a ruin administrative area and he's saying we need this election to be done so that every citizens of South Sudan may have their freedom and elect the people they won't but the question is asking is do we have the parties that can really contest apart from those we already know in mind they are political parties that can compete and challenge compete for these elections that's from toot me care in a ruin administrative area maybe this will be answered by Honorable Ball let's begin with you Honorable Ball thank you very much thank you what can we expect from you thank you thank you very much and actually I will start with the question of brother toot me care from ruin administrative area yes brother toot we need to give the powers back to the people of South Sudan and go for election election should happen in 2024 all the people of South Sudan should call out that all the leaders of this nation should go for election now for the question of if there are parties that are ready to compete in this election yes there is parties that are ready to compete in this election we see the last day I was doing their internal organization and they are ready for election sono party is ready for the election sono party in all the tennis state and the three administrative areas we are ready for the election and if election would to happen we have a goals that we have set it is just because the National Election Commission did not yet announce the beginning of the campaign and the election fever but we are working internally within our party to organize our self and to prepare our goal is to be the majority in the parliament and we can achieve that with our members in all the states and with the people of South Sudan going for the free and fair election to the to elect who to vote for who they wanted to go to the to the parliament legislature so brother toot we are ready for election sono party you can count on it's one of the parties that are ready for the election coming December 2024 Jackson have made a common brother James will respond to it so fairly because it's about reading of what happened and this is a response that you will but I think parties are ready for the election it may not be all the parties of South Sudan but there's quite a few numbers of political parties that are organized that are present and are ready to compete in this coming election flip ask a question of separating the military from the from the political parties it start from the party itself if you want to be a party democracy you can mix the military and the and the civic civilian within the party would not be a party so they need to check out their military uniform and proceed for the registration as the political party we need to hold them those leaders of those political parties to hold them accountable instead of them trying to hold the people of South Sudan accountable for their process to to clear out the military uniform from their parties thank you so much yes doctor cook because of the interest of time may become summarized if they add the answers to the two questions and we conclude because the news is coming up yes how do we how do we separate the military from the civilian political parties it's very simple you you implement up to two of the revitalize peace agreement as it is the parties that have arm wings they need to tell them to report themselves to control men areas and from there they will get a screen they go to training centers they are graduated and then they are deployed as part of the SSPDF this is or they become part of police or whatever section of the of the security sector that they they will be deployed him so that's what need to happen but it seems some of the parties don't want to to relinquish that very very easy and as long as they don't relinquish that I think the political parties counsel will disqualify them from registration and if that happens it means they will not compete in the upcoming election so this is the consequence so go to chapter 2 of the security arrangement and that will solve the the problem of suppression of the of the military from from the political parties and from there those political parties who used to have military they need to go and register and fulfill the the criteria if they cannot register alone they need also to form coalition or alliances with others and they can they can move on or register so it is possible it's not difficult it's a matter of a decision to be taken by each and every political party okay that has a military wing and the SPLM house they need to distance themself from the defectors who are military and and that one will save them from a lot of criticism they should not receive any anyone who defect as a military shouldn't be receiving the SPLM house or by SPLM party and all this this bring us to the whether this part is of the capacity to influence the public opinion yes already they are trying you can see the SPLM will already share the red cap going all around in dosing the president that is part of the influence actually they doing so you can see already there is a move from them to and also there's a contour move from the rest yeah to put also their own yellow their own I don't know blue so that they go and influence the people so it is up to the people now to to listen to who they want to join and who they want to be like so that influence is there it's not a thank you they have the capacity these parties all right thank you very much a honorable ball to be modern we hope to talk to you some other time during our sister program the round table which is always a lengthy and also we won't thank dr james so cook our political analysis is always available for edemira thank you both for coming plus Paul Wani who was online with us here and that's it we have for you this sass day we thank you so much for coming thank you Saini Martin thank you very much Saini Martin for the show and the news will be coming next my name is Saini Martin join me same program same ready station next week