Gene T Speaking to the Barcelona "Easy Does It, But Do It" meeting on November 15, 2023
The Daily Reprieve
Barcelona Meeting - Gene T
[Music] Hello and welcome to the Daily Reprieve, where we provide essays, speaker meetings, workshops, and conferences in podcast format. We are an ad-free podcast. If you enjoy listening, please help us be self-supporting by going to Donate.thewreprieve.com and drop a dollar or two into the virtual basket. Please consider donating monthly by clicking the Donate monthly button. However, one-time donations are always welcome. Just click the Donate Now button. Now, without further ado, this episode of The Daily Reprieve. [Music] Today, the 15th of November, 2023, we are very happy to have with us Jean T. from Dallas, Texas, in the U.S., sober since the 30th of December, 2008. He will be sharing on the topic of life on life's terms. You are now on, Jean, you have 25 minutes to share. And, go ahead Mark. Go ahead Mark. Would you like a five-minute warning? That's what I was going to ask about. Yes, please. Thank you. Is it okay if I just put my hand? I think that'll work well. Thank you, Marko. Okay. I'm Jean T. Sex and Holly. I was contacted by Nancy yesterday. A speaker Kent was lined up and he could not make it today. And I wasn't sure if I could make it today either. And I had to tell her, I'm not sure. And she said, "Well, what would you like to talk about?" And it didn't hesitate a minute. It came right to my life on life's terms, because right now I'm living certainly day-to-day, minute-to-minute with what's going on in our lives. And it's been a lot that way this year. And I'll just talk some more about that. My one Connie had a fall and latter part of September and it suffered a stress fracture on her vertebra. And we're going to a process of healing and recovery from that medical attention with scans and doctors visits and medication. Certainly a lot of pain, especially when she's moving. Any kind of movement is very painful. So we're just working through that. I'm the primary caregiver here at the house. I've had a lot of help with my daughter coming over and other family members coming to help. But I've not made many meetings in the last month or two. I grabbed Zoom meetings when I can. But my life, I'll call it right now, is discombobulated. I never liked that word so much. But it just describes that I'm not in charge of my life today. And I may have to stop during this meeting today and somebody can talk over. I think Buddy would make a good choice to take over. I know a number of you on this meeting and we've done service work together. And it's a joy to see a lot of you today. Some of the friends here from Dallas, because like Thomas said, he said, "It looks like you're self-promoting today. I do want to share what I'm going to talk today." But you know, life on life terms is what I chose as a topic, not personally for what's going on with me and my life and my family and my recovery right now. But after I had given this topic to Nancy, I went in and I googled it. And I encourage you to consider googling it too, life on life terms. And I learned some things, of course. I thought it was maybe a phrase from some philosopher or some poet or some intellectual author or something, but it's not. It came from 12-step recovery. And of course, that's where I first heard it. My story has been so worked in Alcoholics Anonymous since 1984, just celebrated 39 years sober. And now Connie and I have been married a long time. We've been married 54 years and about five months here coming up in a few days. And so there's some history there with this term for me in that as I read yesterday and this search that I made for it, it described that it's not just a motto. It is more to it than that. It encompasses the essence of recovery from addiction and that we live a moment at a time, a day at a time. And as my wife likes to say, one of her favorite sayings is, "Life is what happens when you have other plans." And I love that way of saying it. I love many ways of trying to understand that my life and my sobriety is right now. And I'll try my best to enjoy it and have a good time doing it right now. And that's kind of the way I try to live in sobriety and prayer and meditation and seeking God's guidance with doing that. And that was my prayer before this meeting. And it's usually my prayer before every meeting is something like, "God, help me get out of your way." And you know, the title of the topic of life on life terms, I think it could also be said, life on God's terms or power or whatever you choose that term. I choose God because that's what I'm choosing since I was a kid and it's where it rolls off my tongue. Life on God's term. Because that's the way my experience is. Now, what I'd like to do in talking about this today is to draw a contrast between my life when it was life on Jean's terms and then of more recovering life on God's terms or life on life's terms. And the way I understand my addiction and my propensity to addiction is it has a lot of connection with trauma and neglect and scarcity as a child. And that I'm very prone to seek comfort or escape from the pain that I experience in life, especially early in life, and that my choices have not been good in finding ways to seek comfort or help. But I do believe my sex addiction, less addiction has been really one of the first and foremost of my life. As far back as I can remember, I've been addicted to women and their bodies and their paraphernalia. I grew up with my mother and two sisters in the house. That was my household. My dad was mostly going to work somewhere helping somebody or doing work sometimes somewhere. And that was my household. And I'm just saying that that's my understanding of how I was prone to addiction. And as I found lusting and masturbation, I was hooked immediately. That was and like some others have said in essay that I like to say there, how do you compete with an orgasm? Who can get a bigger high than an orgasm? It certainly is. One of the lives in humans, most delightful experiences. And it was for me. It was an escape and it became an escape over and over and over. It progressed. I got in trouble with it. It caused all my sexual act and alcohol trouble all through my life and my marriage and my work and my social life. And I thank God for the day I got fired. I was pastor of a church in West Texas, and they didn't appreciate when I had alcohol on my breath after the sermon. Once July the 4th of 1984, and they started proceedings for looking to replace me. And a part of that replacement took me into assessment. And I went through the assessment. Anyway, it led me to alcohol treatment. And I'm thankful to the church because they did pay for 30 days of inpatient treatment. And in that treatment, I was ignorant of my family's history with the with addiction. I was ignorant about addiction period. And certainly I was in denial, huge denial. So I was not living on life terms. I was living in a fantasy world inside my head thinking I knew I had a problem. But I figured I thought I could figure it out. I could find a way up on started researching. How can I get help with alcoholism? How can I be a moderate drinker? Like I've always been wanting to be for years. But the fact is I can't. I cannot be a moderate drinker. Not for me. That's just the way it is a true addiction for me. And in treatment there, I had a very profound experience, a third step experience. I didn't want to be there. I wasn't totally into it. But one night about late at night, I found a pamphlet. It was written by a psychiatrist in AA, a very good friend of AA. And he wrote this article for the essay for the grapevine magazine. And that hazelton printed it into a pamphlet. It was called compliance versus surrender in alcoholism treatment. And I was by myself and I read through that pamphlet that night. And it hit me right in the gut. It hit me and a whole, it broke my denial. It helped me understand and see that I had been in denial or had just been leading a double life and not able to do anything about it. And that was a profound moment. It led me into good sober recovery. I had after care, I had, you know, I got in multiple meetings every day, volunteer work in recovery. Then eventually I got to be on the staff at the hazelton foundation in center city as a chaplain. And there for a year, that was a great experience. But you know, I love the phrase also that sober is not well. I've been sober, but many times I'm not very well. I still have thoughts about drinking or I have occasionally a craving. I don't have much of that. I used to have drinking dreams, but you know, but I found also I have other addictions. I'm prone to addictions. My most difficult addiction was nicotine. It took years of trying all kinds of sorts of ways to try to get help with nicotine addiction. And nothing I found could work until one lady in church said, look, I'll pay for your way to go get this acupuncture treatment. I think it'll help you. It helped my husband. I think it'll help you. I took her up on it. And one of the other members of the church, the only other smoker in the church. He and I both went. And we formed a bond and I got it worked for me. It helped me. It was easy to stop smoking that way. I was made, of course, I've had several relapses with nicotine. It is so powerful and all nicotine, all addiction specialists will tell you how powerful the drug it is. And I realized I'm addicted to caffeine. I'm addicted to sugar. I'm addicted, you know, a good esinone. I'm a good alanone. You know, I'm belonging programs that I hadn't even heard of yet. I consider myself a recovering fundamentalist. I once said I haven't found a 12 step group yet that I don't qualify for. Anyway, that's me. That may not be you. You may not be like that. But the whole point is that I could not live life on life's terms. I couldn't completely give myself to this simple program. I didn't have this program. And the way I got into essay was I was the last 10 years of my acting out in this house sobering. I was sobering in a I was sober in a lot of ways, but my family could not tolerate my behavior. I was oscillating in internet pornography. And I mean, I'd rather have been in my office alone with the door locked and engaging with internet pornography for for hours, rather than go eat lunch or rather than go to the bathroom. That's where I was. And my family had had enough of it. And I don't blame them. When they confronted me, my daughter, my son, my son-in-law, my wife, and said, you know, we want you out of the house. We want you out of our lives. Get out. You're done. Well, it got my attention. And we talk about bottoms. That was my bottom with essay. I started looking for help. I went to another essay meeting a group for a while, a short time. But you know, my wife handed me a little slip of paper one time where she had done some homework and she found this essay meeting in Dallas. And I jumped on it. I went to the first meeting I could there on a Tuesday night. And there about six or eight of us there in the small room. And when they read the solution, like we have in our wife, they said, we were home. That was me. I felt at home in that group. I didn't believe they were sober. Several over there said they were sober for a while. I thought they were all lying. I said, because I didn't think I could stay sober. How could they stay sober? And, you know, it was like it was okay. I didn't miss a meeting for quite a while. I made an agreement with my wife that I would make 90 meetings in 90 days. Of course, I wasn't living with my wife. I wasn't staying with my wife. I was staying in a motel over here on the highway. And that kind of thing, it was very difficult. But actually, it turned out for me, is life on life's terms. My terms of life were you don't need to do anything else but work on sobriety period. You don't have to go to work. You don't have to worry about, you know, a lot of things you can focus totally on sobriety. You know, I've been to a lot of conventions. We have a lot of international conventions and I've been to a lot of them. And I like the breakout sessions that occasionally come up there on balance where us folks in recovery are always thinking about how can I find a balance in my recovery? And almost all of those breakout sessions end up with us at the end, near the end of the meeting, just laughing. Well, there ain't no such a thing as balance. You know, you're living life on life's terms. You're an addict and you're completely giving yourself to the simple program and you're sober or you're not. And that's what this article I read and when I took that zoom, there's a bunch of advertisements about life on life's terms. But if you read some of the material in there, the one I really liked was saying that, you know, the essence of this phrase is that it describes exactly what we do or don't do in recovery. We either completely give ourselves to this simple program and have an experience there, the spiritual experience, work in the steps and learning to live the steps in our lives, the spiritual principles and find some long term sobriety or not. And of course, we know most people don't. And that's meant I got to serve as an alcoholism and drug abuse counselor for eight years in Texas. And I see the experience that only about maybe 20, 25% of people who go through treatment or get some serious start on recovery every ever get to a good five years of continuous sobriety. Those are just the odds. Those are the numbers. We have a cunning, baffling and powerful disease. And that's a fact. And that's me. I'm not immune to any of this. I made progress from recovery. And I enjoy that progress. And I enjoy the fellowship as the most. And I enjoy the opportunity to help other people in recovery. That gives me the most joy. And but I know that my sobriety is contingent on a spiritual condition that I have today. And those are the terms of my life. Living on those terms is what keeps me sober and keeps me going today. Anyway, I think we're getting kind of close to time and looking at my watch and check there's the five minute warning. I'll try to wrap it up. You know, this year's been probably the most difficult and strange year in my recovery so far as and said, and I say in that we've had medical problems. I'm 76 years old. My wife's a little older than I am. But we're starting to have end-of-life kinds of decisions and experiences. Susie's shaking her head. Susie and I work together on the service stuff. And I love working with folks in service and getting to know each other better, getting to help them, get some things done. But I like the way my sponsors or one of my sponsors was just one of my sponsors. He said, well, you know, getting old is a hard job. And I'm experiencing that right now. And my wife is too. And for us, it's not been all bad. Connie and I have gotten to have spent more time together. We've gotten to help each other better. We communicated a lot more here lately. Of course, I've communicated a lot less with my sponsors, using guys in the meetings that I hadn't been there. I've been here. But that's not all bad. It reminds me of a time in early sobriety and AA. Our family was out on a rare vacation. And we had gone to Seattle. We had rented a convertible. My son was driving. I was in the passenger seat, the shotgun seat, in the front seat. My wife and daughter were in the back seat. And I was sharing from some of my alcoholic thinking. Just I share thoughts every once in a while, right? Now, I share the thought with everybody. And they just all cracked up laughing. And that it wasn't funny to me. I was serious. But you know, that's the way my that's the way my alcoholic thinking is. I've got a brain that that has been polluted with all kind of addiction. And I'm naturally spring loaded to be an addict about anything I do. I'm addicted to recovery. I love it. And I love a chance to speak on this meeting. And I'm going to kind of wrap it up and let you all take ask questions and have time to share yourself. I appreciate the chance to share today. It's been a joy to be here with you. And God bless you today and whatever God has in your life for you to experience your life today. And whatever the weather is or whatever the circumstances are in your life, may God be able to reach out and touch you and show that he loves you. And he's in charge. And you can trust God to do that. Thank you very much. I'll pass. Thank you so much. Thank you, Dean. Thanks, Dean. Thank you. Thank you, Dean. It's really good to see you and hear from you. You explain or describe a situation that I think is important. And I wonder if you'd want to say more about it. And that is, I think I'm in recovery so that I can be of service to others. And I think that service starts at home and also in my community. And if I am so focused on going to meetings and doing other service, talking to sponsors, that I start neglecting my husband or my family, I think there's something wrong there. And I just, I think that I'm, I am sober so that I can show up in the lives of other people, including just community activities and events. So for me, there's a fine line and a balance that I sometimes struggle with around being of service where, you know, to whom burst and the priorities here. So I just wonder if you want to say any more about that. Thank you. Well, sure, Susie. Thank you. That, you know, just day before yesterday, I was talking to a new member on the phone and he described, he said, I don't know if I'm going to have time for this program with work and my family and the church and he started rattling off his all the things he had going. And I just thought to myself, yeah, I wonder if you're going to have time either. I don't know if you will or not. And I just felt like, you know, it was my life happened to me or things happened to God and put in my opportunity for me to focus on recovery when it was time to focus on recovery. And I was got, I got the opportunity to be, you know, getting an intense opportunity to get exposed to good recovery and good people in recovery. And it's people like you. You're all making a meeting today. You're doing something for your recovery today. And I've been around people like you for at least 39 years now. And I like you. I like being around you. I like recovering sober people. You're my family. Thank you very much. But and that it disturbs my family sometimes. It does. And I have to make choices all the time. And sometimes I'll make the wrong choices. And I'm not going to be perfect. But anyway, I don't have an answer for that. Susie, thanks. Thank you, Susie and Jean. Bob. Hello. First of all, thanks for sharing your human. Really, I like it and the good five. One question. And I'm really glad that you so open and honest about that you are adding on many, many things I can relate to that. How do you deal with this? Because you are well, but what's the way to go for you to keep up with your sobriety? How do you do that? I'm really curious. Thank you. Good question, Bob. You know, through the years, I've counted yesterday. I was trying to get I've had five different sponsors. I've outlived two of them. Every one of them has helped me in some way or some form. And one of them, the thing he said that I like the most was, he said, I need to focus on the things that kind of kill me first. And I don't know that it always fits. But I certainly can take time and focus on the one that is currently causing me a lot of trouble. And I can get help. I can't do it by myself. I got to ask for help and get help from people like Buddy and other people who have been sober a while and Margot and stick with them and run with those winners. That or I can die. That's about it. I'll pass. Thank you, Bob and Gene. And Taiba, did you want your hand was raised? Did you want to say something? I want to ask a question, a similar artistic question, and Gene answered it. So yeah, I think I don't need to ask now. Okay. Nancy? Hi, Nancy. It's a lot. Good to see you, Gene. Thank you for being available. And I guess I didn't know you maybe weren't. I just, what do you want to speak on? I really like expressions. And to me, they just capture key thoughts. I wanted to ask you to repeat the one that your wife said about life on life's terms. Because I want to write that one down. I didn't get it down when she was when you were saying it. But also, do you have any favorite expressions, very favorite, and why? And I'll pass. Yeah, the one that Connie likes is life is what happens when you had other plans. And there's some phrases I like. She asked me to quote one of them just about an hour ago. She said, "How's that ghost? Is good Lord willing and the creek don't rise?" And she had to write it down. She couldn't remember it. But I know that when we were in West Texas, they added a little phrase to it. They said, "Good Lord willing and the creek don't rise too high." And they had another say and says, "We got 10 inches of rain last year. You should have been here that day." But I do like good Lord willing. Because if I try to make a statement that I'm going to do something or be somewhere or have a commitment, just like with Nancy today, it was like good Lord willing. If it's God's will, I'll be there. And that's my plan. That's my intention. But I'm not in charge of my life. I have like the big book says, I have a new employer. I'm not totally in charge of my life. And I know that's true with my interaction with my family, with other people in the program. And it's all negotiable. Thank you. Good question. Thank you, Nancy and Jean. Buddy. Thank you. Thanks, Jean. It's good to see you. Yeah, life on life terms. I don't have a question. I just want to say life on life terms. Sometimes it can just really suck. I've been doing grief work for the last four or five months. And it's incredibly painful trying to deal with a loss from my early childhood, which was just stuck in my body. And along the way, we have two cats that we adopted. They were almost 14. Along the way, one of our cats, Smokey, had gotten sick. And we just had to put him down last week. And so now I got real fresh, present day grief on top of the other grief. And yeah, the first thing that comes into my mind is I want to either drink, or I want to drug, or I want to lust. And as crazy as it may sound, I made a promise to my cat Smokey that I'm not going to any of those. I'm just going to stay sober and live life on life's terms and try to just feel this grief. And it was just now six days ago. And like today, I can feel like I'm finally starting to get through that on life's terms. So I appreciate your topic. And I identify with the back pain to I had injured my back. And it felt like somebody had stabbed a knife in my leg and left it there. And it was months for me to get that resolved. So yeah, and that's what life throws at us. So so it's great to see you. Give my regards economy. And thank you for sharing today. Thank you. Thank you for your relating, buddy. I appreciate that very much. Thanks, buddy. Jean, you're welcome to have more of a comment if you'd like. Well, yeah, that that when you if you ever Google life on life terms, that's the same part of the things that you're talking about in there is that, you know, the tragedy and trauma. It's going to happen. And if we can get through it and pick ourselves back up or somehow get help and pick it up and move on with life, that that is a life on life's terms. That's part of it. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you, Jean. So Rosie, how is that the way to say your name? Sorry. My picture was in my way and I could not unmute. Yeah, thank you for the topic. And I don't know. It kind of makes me think about sponsorships because you sound so sound. So no, but you can't control other people's lives and them seeing that their solutions are hard power. And, you know, did it did it click after so many years of being sober from alcohol and being in a say, when did it click for you that you really had to let people, you know, do that themselves that they had to realize themselves that, you know, their solution was in the steps and their programming. I mean, because it's hard, you know, especially with drugs when you have grown up with people who have died and you had to let them go, you know, but then in other fellowships, I've experienced the same thing where you see six people, sponsors, you know, people in recovery and you want to help them and you can't and you don't want to hate them. You want to love them, but it's hard to have people close to you that are sick. Oh, you're you're you're asked a great question. There's a short poem that I found in that search on the internet today that said, guys, the most painful thing in life is to watch a person drowned and you try to you cannot convince them that all they need to do is stand up. Oh, man, that hit me. You know, that's a great thing to be Google this topic. You'll find some good good writings and well spoke well written material in there. That's a great topic. Thank you. And like you're asking, you know, when did I realize this or notice it? I don't always have that. I forget it. I have a forgetting disease. I forget some of the best stuff that I know and I understand and I appreciate it. I'm an addict and my brain acts like an addict. It's an addict's brain. And just like Buddy was saying, you know, some of my first thoughts or first reactions are old patterns, old habits, and I've got to my brain. And it's not true. My brain is not trustworthy. Thank you. Thank you for the question, Ron sale. I'm for the answer, Jean. We have plenty of time if somebody wants to speak up. So they're doing recovery insects. Oh, okay, Susie, and then it was Daniel. Thanks so much, Daniel. Yeah, Susie, go ahead. I'm double dipping, but I forgot to say when I was talking about how to prioritize life versus recovery that I have to prioritize recovery or I won't have that life. And the question for me sometimes is how many, you know, what can I get away with? How few meetings can I go to and still maintain my happy joyous and free life? And the answer is I won't know until it's too late. You know, I won't know until I go to two meetings in and start giving into temptation or whatever. And the other thing I wanted to share is the Betty Davis quote, old age ain't for sissy. And boy, I relate to that. Thank you. I'll pass. Thanks, Susie. Daniel, go ahead ahead. Yeah, thanks so much. I always love to ask what your connection to God looks like day in day out. What are the things you like to do to step 11, build that conscious contact. Thank you. Yeah, yeah, step 11 is my favorite step. Practice it daily. And it's my disease that that causes me to turn there and go there. That because I'm so regularly reminded of my addiction that I know where to go. But it's a new habit. It's a recovery habit. It's the ones that you have taught me and many others that I hang around with and recovery have continued to help and reinforce and help me enjoy that kind of life. A life of prayer and meditation and getting outside myself. Thank you very much. Excellent point. Thank you. Thanks, Daniel and Jean. And now we have Eric. Thank you, Jean. Eric up, sex, all you've been my sponsor for about a year and a half, almost. And I'm really grateful for that. And your expressions are gold and just your wisdom in this program. And just how good of a listener you are is. I think it's been really encouraging to me to keep working the program, keep coming back. And I feel like there's always something new I learned from you. But when you talk about just you've been in there and done that and you've been, you struggle with the same thing I've talked to you about and you have some insight. You have like an insider scoop all the time. It seems like I just want to say thank you and appreciate everything you do for me in my journey and our talks and loving man. And I'm praying for you in your way. Hey, thank you, Eric. You flatter me, but I'm impressed by you heading to Africa to help people, man. He's on his way over there now. I'm just going to take his skill and knowledge and his enthusiasm and go help people. And God bless you on your journey, man. Thanks. Thanks, Eric and Jean. Royce, were you wanting to say something? Well, I wanted to watch the time, but thank you. Jean, first of all, I love the mustache thing you've got going there. That's great. As you know, and others don't, I've been dealing with a lot of life issues myself. And I've also had to learn to live life on life's terms because I simply don't have control over anything. The only thing I have control over is my attitude and my sobriety. And I'm constantly reminded when you take a flight and the flight attendant gets on the speaker, as she says, in the case of cabin depressurization, put your mask on first and then help those around you. And if I am not sober, I cannot be of any service to anyone else. And that's become very important to me, partly because of my health and that situation. But that's just reality is that if I am not sober, I can't help anyone else. And if I'm not sober, I don't have anything else. I will lose everything again. And, you know, Jean, you've been you've been wonderful. I love listening to you. I really appreciate everything you say and you're such an inspiration. And I'm grateful for you. Thank you. I thank you, Royce. And I met Royce about eight or nine years ago when he was in prison. And he's become one of my best friends. I got going through getting out on a halfway house and out on parole and all of that. Actually, several guys I've sponsored in prison, they have become my best friends. And I never would have thought that, but they're just good people, good friends. They're just life happened to them. And it could have happened to me too. And that's why I love sponsoring guys in prison because there, but for the grace of God, go on. That's very well could have been me there. Anyway, love you, too, Royce. Thank you. Thank you, Royce and Jean. So I'll ask a question. Jean, you I hear a lot of self-acceptance in what you share of, yes, I'm an addict and yep, I have that thought. And I just wonder when you come to the end of the day and you're doing your inventory, what kind of attitude do you recommend or about your inventory? Well, it's November, Margot. You can't go wrong with gratitude. And that's where I try to end up every day with some kind of gratitude for things that have happened today and be current with that, that I can be grateful for. I may not like it. I may, you know, I can't trust my thinking about things or feelings about things, but I can be grateful. And several people mentioned their gratitude today on my inventory, you know, that we look for the things that we've done well today, we things that we've not done so well, if we need to make any amends, you know, we look certainly pray for people and, you know, I follow the big book about page 83 to 85 and we're up in there and I do what just what it says in there every, every evening. But I enjoy times of prayer and meditation kind of in my day, start my day and in my day. I just, I thoroughly enjoy that. I don't always get it the way I want to as much time or place, but that is my joy. Best, best time of the day. Thank you. Thanks, Jean. Nancy, you know, it's so easy, so thanks a lot. That's a couple of times you've mentioned now that you really like your kind of meditation. Can you describe more specifically what that looks like so that I can envision what's going on? Thanks. Well, mine's simple. My prayer and meditation is simple. I, my prayer time, I start off with a praise and adoration and love of God with all my heart and mind and strength and soul and and a different kind of just adoring God and I move into some gratitude. I spend time with going through things and I'm very grateful for today with God and I stay very current with that. And then I'll go into some time of petition and thinking of other people that I want to pray for Ed and Eric or or David and you know, different people that I was specifically concerned about. I want to pray for them and my wife and my family, that kind of thing. And then I kind of end the prayer time with some just asking God to help me, you know, with being a servant and with my attitude and my willingness. And I go in then that's prayer time. I go in meditation time, very simple. I have my my what people call mantra. My word that I say over and over is is one, the number one. I think there's one divine person, one divine being, one and that's that's my choice and one plus in my meditation, I get problems with visual stuff coming by my in my head, you know, in my mind. But I could open my eyes and pick out a vertical sign like the the door frame here right in front of me and close my eyes and keep that one one one one and let everything else go out. Let everything else go and try to get these thoughts out of my head. Let them go. Let them go because that's my old point of meditation is to clear my mind so that I can listen and kind of the latter parts and sometimes I meditate myself to sleep. If I'm tired, I do that. But if I'm not tired, I like to go on into some just some time of letting God speak to me or let me listen for maybe what God might want to be saying to me today. And that usually takes 20 minutes to 30 minutes, something like that at the best. But I can meditate at the drop of a half. I can do a short quick meditation like that. Not while I'm driving, hopefully, but you know, it does I just I need to clear my mind sometimes. Thank you very much. A good question. Thanks, T. Thank you, Nancy. And thank you, Jean. You've got about four minutes left. Maybe time for another question. Hey, this is Daniel Jay, a sexaholic calling in from Argentina this time. And really glad to see you, Jean. I think I met you and your wife in Seattle, if I remember which convention it was. So really, I'm sorry, I came in late to the meeting. I had a medical issue, but living life on life's terms. But everything's going to come out all right. I guess what I wanted to ask you is during all these years of recovery, has your concept of your higher power evolved? I mean, what did it look like back in 2008? And what does it look like now? And what kind of evolution did it take? Thanks. Thank you, Daniel. And good to see you again, too. What you doing in Argentina? Well, we're visiting daughters and grandkids who live here. Wonderful, beautiful. Hope you enjoy it. Hey, well, certainly, certainly my concept of a higher power has changed. And my, you know, I went to seminary for four years and studied a lot of theology and and that done a lot of writing and research and all like that. I can go all into all of that. But you know, when I got into a I had been a pastor for about seven years at that time, whatever. And I had to drop all my baggage, all kind of thinking and feeling and expression about because I knew it was just like the big book said, what I had been doing wasn't working. And I was so depressed and so despondent, like I sit in an AA meeting and stare at the bottom of the table. It was right in front of me. We had those long tables, you know, those long heavy tables, heavy tables. I moved a lot of them. But you know, there's a weld right in the bottom between the brace and the going into the leg. And that weld right there could hold up that table all day and all night, never flinch, never, never complain. And I started praying to that weld down there at the bottom of that table. And I go many, many, I go to meetings every day, two or three meetings a day sometime, I pray to the well at the bottom of that table. I couldn't lift my head hardly very much and talk very, they wouldn't let me talk for the first year, you know, and that AA group, you know, that you couldn't talk for the first year. So I did a lot of praying. And I got simple and I kept it simple. And I still do that today. And I try not to get too fancy or too original about it. I just try to keep a relationship, an alive relationship going. And I don't, I don't always do it well with it. And it shows when I'm not keeping a good relationship going, I'm in trouble. And I know and I take action. Thank you, Daniel. Good question. Thanks, Jean. Thanks, Daniel and Jean. Thank you very much, Jean. This has been a fantastic meeting. I would like to thank you for listening to this episode of The Daily Reprieve, the best source for experience, strength and hope for SA members. Please subscribe to this podcast to be alerted of new episodes. Please show your support by donating to The Daily Reprieve by going to donate.thedayreprieve.com and choosing either monthly donations or a one-time donation by clicking donate now. Thank you for listening and stay tuned for the next episode of The Daily Reprieve. [Music]