Cathy B Speaking to the Barcelona "Easy Does It, But Do It" meeting on October 25, 2023
The Daily Reprieve
Barcelona Meeting - Cathy B
[Music] Hello and welcome to the Daily Reprieve, where we provide essays, speaker meetings, workshops, and conferences in podcast format. We are an ad-free podcast. If you enjoy listening, please help us be self-supporting by going to Donate.thewreprieve.com and drop a dollar or two into the virtual basket. Please consider donating monthly by clicking the Donate monthly button. However, one-time donations are always welcome. Just click the Donate Now button. Now, without further ado, this episode of The Daily Reprieve. [Music] Today, the 25th of October, 2023, we are very happy to have with us Kathy B. from Western New York and the United States in recovery since the 7th of January 1993. She will be sharing on the topic of a happy and joyous freedom. You are now on Kathy, and you have 25 minutes to share. Daniel has volunteered to be the spiritual timekeeper. How would you like to be timed? Oh, just let me know, you know, when I've gone to 20 minutes, that would be great. Thank you. And then, if I hit 25, thanks. Okay, so I am Kathy. I'm a grateful recovering sexaholic, and my sobriety date is January 7th, 1993. And when Nancy asked me if I would speak, and she told me that it was a topic meeting. The last time I was on the meeting was before there were, it was a topic meeting, but when, you know, I remember just telling my story all high. And so, right away it came into my head, happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know. And so, I really could just talk about that for a really long time. I have a lot to say about happy and joyous freedom in sobriety. I want to talk though, I want to talk though about, well, first of all, this happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know, is the second to the last paragraph in the reading done at the beginning of what is a sexaholic and what a sexual sobriety. And just looking at that, basically the way I see it, it just iterates, you know, all that what a sexaholic is. And it says that he or she has lost control, no longer has the power of choice, and it's not free to stop. That's definitely my story. And then we're like the alcoholic who was hooked but cannot stop. And it says that the sexaholic can no longer tolerate loss cannot stop. So this is just to remind me how I got here. It says that we have found that acceptance of these facts, all of these facts about being a sexaholic is the key to a happy and joyous freedom we could otherwise never know. And I love that part we could otherwise never know because that just brings me right back into being in recovery and when I was not in recovery and what my life was like and I certainly didn't know freedom even though I thought that I was living a really free life. So here's what my so-called freedom brought me before essay sobriety. So I was acting out between the ages of 12 and when I got sober in when I was 35. So just some of the things humiliation and embarrassment in the crazy pursuit of partners. Here was freedom, getting thrown out of my apartment at age 23 because I was bringing strange men into the house, got myself in dangerous situations answering personal ads, or going home from bars with strangers, or meeting people at the laundromat or on public transportation. And then the disruption, the disruption that the addiction and the loss did in my life that prevented me from living. I'm just thinking of someone but when my acting out really took off, but I was young. I was in my 20s and 30s and it just prevented me from living my life. It pervaded everything, my mental and my emotional and my spiritual in all my took up all this space and time and my daily activities. I mistreated friends and I ended up losing friends because of the way I treated them. When I was acting out, they were really just a way for me to get to what I wanted. I almost lost a wonderful man because it was a normal relationship without chemistry or intrigue. That's my husband. So I almost just threw him to the side. My job was put in jeopardy, my marriage was put in jeopardy, the possibility of losing my child in a custody belt. And by the time I got to SA, and I didn't get sober right away, so I was heard about SA in about 1990 and I have been absent in a 12-step food program since 1981. This woman was my sponsor and I was telling her about all these things I was doing in my, I was married. And she said, "This doesn't sound right to me. It sounds like you're intriguing. I didn't know what she meant at all." And she sort of gradually told me about SA and I didn't know how that applied to me at all. But I did go to a meeting and this was in the Cambridge and Boston area in Massachusetts and I kept going to meetings. But it was a couple of years of progressively worse acting out and going to meetings where I would hear about people who were living that free and sober life. I finally hit a wall and I guess it was that point of not being able to tolerate lust. I just really believe it was my higher power. You know, who just hit one day, it was January 6, 1991, and I was, you know, basically acting out it was someone at work and January 7 was the day when I hit the wall. And I called someone in SA who I knew a woman and I said, "I can't, I can't do this anymore." And I said, "Tell me what to do." And that was my first day of freedom. So I went from acting out with these people to the next day of, you know, having to make phone calls to SA women to say, "They're calling me. This is before answering machines." And so you wouldn't know who was calling. And so these people were calling me at work and I would answer the phone and I said, "I need help. I can't do this by myself." You know, the only way I know to relate to these people and to men in general is to be in an acting out lust state of mind. So that was, at January 7th, 1993, I was married and I had a three-year-old son. And it was not easy getting sober. It was extremely difficult, emotionally, physically, extremely difficult. And that's what makes me know that I am definitely a sexaholic. I'm an addict because I felt that I was looking over into an abyss. I couldn't imagine my life without acting out. So that was the moment though. And I didn't get there myself. All I can say is, there was a moment where I said, "It's better to look over the abyss than it is to go back to what I was doing." So that was the freedom that I felt I had. I remember I went to college. I got brought in right up in a strict religious background and I thought, going to college, "I'm going to be so free. I'm going to do whatever I want." And that was just more acting out. And all I can say is, it was just completely took over my life. So what has life been like, sense of variety, as far as freedom? So I knew that as a sexaholic, there was no other option for me to stop. I leaned on essay and I leaned on the women in essay constantly. I absolutely wasn't so much pain of stopping and knowing I had to, but not knowing what life would be like if I did stop. So I'm so grateful for them. So here are some things that I have. I've got freedom to have honest and healthy relationships with women, friends, freedom to work and do productive work, freedom to appreciate my husband and look for where the love is instead of where the lust is, freedom to be in a variety of life situations. And we all know that the possibility of lust is anywhere I go. There's a possibility of lust. So here are some of the places. So freedom at church, with neighbors, with work colleagues at special occasions when I'm at the grocery store. If there are contractors or repair people coming to my home, when my daughter, when we spend time with my daughter and her boyfriend, and I have freedom there, I have the freedom to have a relationship with my higher power that is clean and free of distraction and disruption. I have the freedom to admit my mistakes and work on making amends. So when I first got sober, I wasn't thinking about happy and joyous. I was thinking about freedom, although it was going to take a while for me to really understand what that meant. And again, withdrawal was so so so so difficult. So I do, I do come into or get into not get into anything. I can be like I said at church at the grocery store, where lust might come up. And because I'm never going to be free of it. It's I'm not cured. And so I feel the beauty of sobriety of physical sobriety, emotional sobriety, spiritual sobriety. But that doesn't mean that I'm not going to be caught off guard. I do work on building a defense against my lust on a daily basis by working this program. I don't let myself and I pray to God not to let myself be in that situation where the disease where I'm listening to the disease tell me that a little acting out or a little flirting or a little bit of this or a little bit of that would be okay. And that's that voice that was talking to me the whole time I was acting out that I, you know, I could just do it a little bit more. And that would be the answer that hit would be that would make me feel good about myself. That would be make me whole. And so that that voice is there. And I respect that voice. Anyway, what I was saying is that I'm going to get in situations that I'm not even expecting anything to happen. But it could just be somebody in the room that I'm in. And thank God this program has given me very powerful tools to deal with these situations. This program has given me those. And so those tools allow me to are the things that help me to build a defense against that first acting out situation. So there are just dozens of things I could say about my happy and joyous life. So, you know, for I would say that freedom from lust and freedom from acting out isn't itself a joyous and happy thing. In itself it creates that. But I over the years because of staying with the program and working at I in sponsoring and being sponsored and going to meetings. And I have come to a happy and joyous place. And, you know, one of the things I call my sponsor every day. And one of the things that I talk about with her is that I was my really just wonder and gratitude at being in a given situation. Again, these are everyday situation where in the past I would have responded in a lustful way. And the fact that I don't just makes my heart sing. You know, I just think, oh my God, this program is so much greater than me. It's so much greater than me. My higher power working through this program is so much greater than me. And that attitude of gratitude of being grateful of thinking where I could be. But no, I'm not there. This is where I am today is so important for me to get into that space of saying I could that could have happened or look what might have happened or 32 years ago this happened. And I don't have to do that. I'm not in a place where I feel like if a situation presents itself that I have to pursue it. And when I was acting out, I had no choice. I was not free to stop. And one of the things that has real well, not one of the things, but I would say one of the most important things towards increasing my happiness and joy and happy and joy in in my sobriety is really, you know, I've done the steps over the years in my in my other program and in various programs. But I was introduced about about 20 years ago by my essay sponsor to a specific way of working the steps that was different from anything I'd done before. And that has made a huge difference to my being able to live a really a good life, a productive life, a life of love and a giving of service to other people. And that has increased my joy and increased my happiness greatly. And as I was saying, I have the freedom to admit mistakes. And one of the things that this way of working the steps has brought me is that, of course, I went through I went through step four in a more thorough way than I ever had. I did a sex inventory in a way that I had never done. And it was extremely powerful for me to do because it really helped me to face and look at everything that I had done in each person I had been involved with in one way or the other. So that ability to make mistakes and to make amends for them is really just to, you know, it's an everyday occurrence because I'm in a marriage. And we've been married for 37 years. And thank God, this program saved my marriage and saved my relationships with my son, my son, who was three at the time and my daughter was born later after I was sober. And I have these just precious relationships. So back to being able to make mistakes, recognize them working the 10th step on a daily basis. And that is is a perfect accompaniment and enrichment to my essay sobriety. And I feel like I made a lot of progress in my first 10 years or so in essay sobriety. Tremendous progress. Just really have been able to experience all of the gifts of this program. But the steps and the really intensive working of them has, and the daily working of them, has, has brought me more happiness and freedom that I've ever known and certainly that I could know before. I could never have known it when I was acting out. I was really just in a, in a, I don't know what I think about it. It's like a, it's just a, it's an, as it says in the reading, it says, you know, there's no right and wrong. So there's no right and wrong. It says that a moral existence, like any addiction, it completely, it progressed and it completely took over my life. I was really living life with blinders on because I was so focused on what I was on. The next thing I was going to do, which for me was the next hit, the next acting out situation, the next taking somebody hostage, basically, all, I mean, my acting out was mostly in relationships like that. And so I lost my train of thought. So anyway, just the fact, oh, I was saying blinders and how I, there was no, there was no spiritual world. There was no, I couldn't tell right from wrong. I was focused on my addiction and how I could, what I, how I was going to get my next one. And it was a really, really small life. And it was really like living in a tunnel. And like I said, I thought I was living this free life at doing what I wanted in the meantime, just doing all the damages I went. And that's not happening today. And thank God it has not happened. I want to talk about one other time about 20 years ago, maybe a little bit more. I can't remember, give or take a few years. I, I had, was not going to as many meetings. And I had told my sponsor, I didn't want to call her every day. I was just going to call her a couple of times a week. And she said, Oh, and so I had gotten myself this is church. This is quieter. So I'm in this choir. And again, lust can arise anywhere, because my lust involves people. So I had gotten myself drawn in by lust into this. I wouldn't say it was a situation because nothing had actually happened. But a lot was going on in my mind, a lot. And I was, I was living in that world of this is fine. This is going to be, this is going to be exciting. This is going to make me feel good. And thank God I, I did not act out, but I did get to a point where I really, really thank God was, I feel like my Harry Potter picked me up and threw me over there and said, call your sponsor. And since then, I have called my sponsor every single day for about 20 years. And that makes a really, really big difference, because not only am I calling her, but in the act of calling her, I'm surrender. I'm that's an act of surrender. That's an act of I can't do this. But it's also that I tell her about any situations around lust. Thank you, Daniel. Thank you. Any situations around lust that which is in my mind, a lot goes on in my mind. And so something that might have happened, like I said, that repair person who came to do work, I might have been having some thoughts about him. There might be lots of similar situations, nothing actually happened, but it was, you know, brought on lust in my mind. And so it's really important for me and my sobriety to maintain my sobriety to be basically reporting to my sponsor what's going on in my head. And also to talk to her about things that I know are coming up that could possibly be a time when I feel feeling challenged. And so that's sort of like heading it off at the past. And so I'm so grateful that I don't have to do this by myself, that I have so many other people who are sex addicts like me, hopeless variety, and who are living, living sober lives, and have freedom and have the chance of having happy and joyous freedom that we could otherwise never know. So I'll end there. Thank you. Thank you so much, Kathy. You're welcome. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you, Kathy. Thank you very much, Kathy. I heard you said the freedom of making mistakes. So I think the freedom of making amends and you said you make an intensive, intensive, intensively, for a step with the acting out partners. I am in that process now. And my question is, what did you as an amends to them? Thanks. Would someone repeat that question? I didn't understand. But that's something about amends. Yes, you told about the inventory, about the sex partners, acting out with the sex partners. And my question is what you did as an amends to them. Understood. Okay. Thank you. So what I did as an amends, there was no question in my sponsor's mind that I would ever contact any of those people. First of all, lunch to dangers for me, but also I'd be harming other people, you know, by contacting them. And so I wrote letters and I wrote many, many, many letters. They were letters that went unsenshed. These were people from a long time ago. So those letters for me were much, much more helpful than I expected. So yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Christina. Thanks, Kathy. Martina. Thank you very much, Kathy, for your share. I could identify a lot and it really touched me to listen to you and all the hope and the positivity in your share and all the joy and freedom you got by the program and working it thoroughly. And you said that like in the beginning, acting out partners, we're calling you on the phone and you were quite desperate and you worked the program and I'm grateful for sharing. It was emotionally and physically not easy to become sober. Well, it definitely wasn't. And today I'm doing service with men or I mean 50% of the population are men and I'm very grateful that I'm able to have a sober contact to husbands or friends of mine, for example, or to other people I'm doing service with. But they're of course still specific men who trigger me. And yeah, I would like to be in a good sober contact with men. And with some, it's harder than with others. And I was just wondering if you have the recommendation, if you avoid the ones who trigger you or if you put more distance or you're more polite or like how you are dealing with the ones who are more difficult. Yeah, that's my question. Thank you. Thank you, Martina. That's a good question. I was just thinking about how I come in contact with men everywhere in my life. And so if I feel that someone is coming up as a problem or my sponsor definitely knows about it, I've told her about that. And for me, it makes the most sense to avoid them unless I need to spend time around them. Let's say we're doing a project together at church or something like that. Did that answer your question? Yeah, thank you. Okay. Thanks, Martina. Thanks, Kathy. No well. Yeah, thank you, Kathy. My, you know, my wife discovered my first step in mentoring. And it was a calamity. And I'm still dealing with the fallout of that. And I still have my marriage, but there's, you know, it's had a bit towards separation, but that's also not headed towards separation. And so these amends to your husband, if there is a way to, you know, some of the things that work 37 years, such a beautiful type together. I was curious about that. And it would be a lot to learn from how you work that. Could you shed some light? Thank you for the question. I, that was a very, very difficult time. My husband was aware of, you know, a portion of what I was doing. However, I never made an amends and told him more because my sponsor advised that things were in a difficult place, you know, already. So, for me, it was really living events because I had so much to, well, I had so much to learn anyway about how to be in a relationship. But it was really kindness, acts of love, practicing, you know, intimacy, practicing, getting to know him. But especially that working on, on, you know, asking for help when I'm feeling angry in situations. But anyway, the way I, the way I'm picturing it in my head is that I, I just really focused on being the best partner I could to him. Because I knew more than he did, you know, about what I had done. And he was terribly hurt with what he did know. So it was a long process. But it has, you know, this is 30 years later, he really doesn't know that I'm working my program. I don't talk to him about it. He doesn't really remember any of it. I haven't asked him that. But that shows me that my higher power has really been directing me. And my sponsor has been through my sponsor and through others, other sober members, women in just really just turning over a new leaf. I mean, I, yeah, I have a lot to learn anyway in early sobriety. But you know, that was part of it was really working on the living events. Hope that helped. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Thank you, Noel. Thank you, Kathy. Iris. Thank you, Margo. Thank you so much, Kathy, for such a powerful and beautiful share. I am taking away so many things from your share tonight. So my, I have two questions. I just completed 29 months in essay and also sober. So I mean, in my initial recovery stage. So have you ever been complacent while working the steps? I have one step eight right now with my sponsor. And so have you become a complacent ever or stuck in your, any of your step? And how did you start, you know, moving forward again? And next question is how you work for your manageability on day to day basis. And I'm Iris from India. I forgot to say. Okay, I got the first question. I'm not sure about the second question. Could you repeat that? Yeah. What do you do for your manageability on day to day basis? Just one day at a time, kind of thing, because how much ever I decide for myself that I'll get up on, you know, this particular time to this thing on this particular time, the next day, something comes up. And there is so uncertainty every time I how much I try, I don't, you know, make all days same. So I don't know it says because of my addiction or my nature or whatever. But me and my husband both are addicts in recovery in our own programs. My children are also into a step program. So we have a lot of program environment in my home. So that's not an issue about privacy or space or doing our work. But still, with me, I don't know something comes up in front of me. And my day becomes manageable in the afternoon or sometimes at morning. And that really irritates me inside myself. I don't just, you know, blow away. But I really become irritable with my own self. So unmanageability and complicency are my questions. Thank you. Thank you, Iris. So when I was doing, I'm just thinking of what I was actually going through the steps, you know, and doing my four step, doing my fifth step. Because now I'm on, you know, I'm working steps 10, 11 to 12 on a daily basis. But I remember was step four, the complacency came in with, I don't want to write today. I'm too busy. I don't want to write today. And putting it off and then talking with my sponsor and her encouraging me to, okay, what about if you do 15 minutes? It took me a really long time to write my fourth step. And I don't think that's that unusual. I don't know. I've talked to other people too, but it would have benefited me to go quicker. And so the way I dealt with that complacency is by following my sponsors' instruction. So we would day at a time, oh, you would think that pen and paper, I mean, it just was so hard to sit down to. So I think it was just taking action. And then I remember going from the four step to the fifth step and then having that be, you know, doing my fifth step and having that be just such an experience that I felt myself just really thrust back into enthusiasm, you know, about the steps. So from so much of what I, you know, so much of my sober life is working with my sponsor, you know, I really just, I can't sponsor myself. You know, I have to have someone else. I mean, she, I can tell people what I think they should do, but I can't tell me what I think I should do. That just doesn't work. So I've gotten so much help and guidance over the years. So the second question about amends. So I do a 10th step every evening. And if I were to line them all up together, let's say over a period of like a year, I would say I did it again, I did it again, I did it and having to make amounts and being in a relationship with my husband for some reason, you know, he's the one that I get the most, you know, upset at just about day to day stuff. And my husband isn't an addict. And, and the same things keep coming up. And I find though that the more I am aware of them, and the more that I'm working the steps on them, looking at what my part is, and whatever is happening, why did I get angry? Why did I lose my temper? Etc. Is it it's a progressive thing? What do I try to say? It's um, it gets better and better. So if I were to look at all those 10 steps, I might find that there's more more days that I didn't write about that particular resentment. So I think that that's the way that I slowly see progress. I'm never going to be without faults, unfortunately. So, you know, that's what the steps are there for. And especially, you know, 10, 11, and 12, and being able to always have a, always be able to have a solution, I guess you could say to whatever that resentment is or fear is. So that's been really helpful for me. And just accepting, I'm not going to, I'm not going to be perfect. It's going to take, it's going to be slow, but I'm working on it with the help of my sponsor. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. I want to mention my second question was about being more manageable on day to day basis. So being more, you mean, how my life is more manageable? Yeah. Oh gosh. So the, in every way, my life is more manageable. Well, certainly since I was acting out, but I would say working the steps, how my life is more manageable as I don't get caught up in these lengthy snits about, I get very angry and think I'm justified being angry and giving a lot of time to that. So the more I work the steps, the more I am aware quicker of the mistakes of, I don't like the way I feel, you know, I don't like the way I behave much quicker. I'm more aware of it. And so I'm then more able to make that amends. And so life is definitely more manageable if working the steps. Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Iris. Thank you, Kathy. Katrine. Thank you, Margot. Hi, Katrine. Thank you very much for your share, Kathy. It's really good to hear you and it makes me happy and joyous to hear you and to see you in this meeting. Yeah. And I want to say or want to share back that what touched me most is simply the fact that you have been calling your sponsor for the past 20 years every day. This is incredible and that you share with her and on a daily basis. I had many questions. I just pick one. And the one is, what do you do to improve your conscious contact with God on a daily basis? You mentioned that you come from a religious background and maybe you already had all the practices or maybe something changed when doing the steps. And yeah, what is your 11-step practically, so to speak? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for the question. So I have gone through periods in my sobriety where I have not meditated at all. I prayed. I've always prayed. You know, I pray in the morning, I pray at night. Thank you, God and God, please give me the willingness to go to any lengths to be sober, whatever that might be. And thank you at night that I was sober today. But the meditation, I have more time. I've been retired now for about five years. And so my mornings are a great time for me to give to guided meditation, which I use a, you know, a phone app for that. And that has really, really helped. Not only does it help calm me down because I'm naturally a rather anxious person, but it just, it physically and emotionally and spiritually calms me down. And I sometimes feel the presence of my higher power. Sometimes I don't. But I feel just like showing up is really just a way of connecting with my higher power. So I, you know, don't really have religious practices at all, but I do have spiritual practices. So it's, it's pretty simple. You know, it's just, it's prayer and meditation. And, and they benefit me hugely. So, so the difference between a day when I don't meditate, or maybe if I don't meditate for a few days, and a day that I do, I can really tell, I can really tell because I, I feel that connection with the power of greater than myself. I feel more grateful. I feel calmer. I feel like I can show up and be the person that I want to be in that in the day. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Katrine. And thank you, Kathy. We don't have any hands raised right now. So, Katrine, if you have another question, feel free to ask it. Okay. The other question was, you mentioned there was a difference between the step, the way you've worked the steps before, and then something happened. You, you did a different way of working the steps. Can you explain that a little more in detail? Thank you. So I would just say that it's based on the big book, that the involves reading from the big book and writing from the big book. And there are specific instructions for every step, and that it's not a rushed process, that it's a process that happens over a period of time. Now, that may be six months for one person. For me, it was a bit longer. It was all that writing that I delayed. So that, I think that's all I can really say is just to say that it is a method that uses only the big book for reference and for content, and that follows the way that the steps are done or laid out in the big book. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Katrine. Thank you, Kathy. Nancy. Nancy, are you there? I'm sorry. I am here. I couldn't figure out how to get my phone to unmute. Okay. Actually, Katherine's question, second question was going to be my question. But what I'd like to do is ask you, can you go more specifically into what you do for step 10, 11, and 12 on a daily basis? And thank you so much for sharing it. Really, I wanted to scribble notes, but I was driving. Thank you, Nancy. So there is a, I follow a 12-step app on my phone, which somebody told me about, somebody who programmed, told me about. And so the writing itself can be done right in the app. Very simple. It asks the questions that are a couple of places in the big book. You know, how are we, where are we? Self is dishonest, self-seeking, and frightened. Did we have resentments? What were they? What were the resentments? What were the fears? Did I help somebody today? Did I do service? Did I connect with another program person? I'm trying to remember all the questions, but that's the gist of it. And it also gives the opportunity to say, and this is really important to me, to say, what could I have done better? Because that, instead of just laying out all the mistakes I made, I can say, well, you know, this is what I could have done differently. And that, that's a really good way to wrap that up for me. Because it, it, it is a way for me to be self-loving and self-appreciative. And which is really important for me. And also just to, yeah, just to feel hope and to feel positive. What could I have done better? Well, and come up with actually, usually some pretty good ideas. Not, I don't feel like I'm thinking them. They just come into my mind. So that's, that's the way I work step 10 each day. I do have a step 10 buddy, we call each other buddies. And so we're kind of sponsoring each other once a week. We, we turn over our resentments and fears that we've had that week. So I make sure that I'm writing things down during the week so that I can share them with her. And that's really helpful because I'm not, I'm not turning that over in a vacuum. She's done the steps the same way that I have. And so she kind of has the same way of approaching it. And so she may comment on that, you know, description I just gave her and maybe, maybe give me some ideas of where I could have done better. Or point out where I was only being human and just move on, keep on trying. So that's really helpful every week. And as I said, step 11 for me is just daily meditation and then definitely prayer. I mean, I've had prayer in my life ever since I got into programs 42 years ago. So they're very, very important. Because that puts me in a position of I'm on my knees. And I'm definitely not the one, I'm the one asking for help and thinking. And that, that feels like a, I need to be in that position of and that way of thinking that I can't do it myself. As far as 12. So I do sponsor people and I would like to be doing more with sponsoring and talking to newcomers. And I've asked my higher power to show me examples of where that might work. I am retired, but I am working another program very at taking up a lot of time. So I, I'm hoping that time will come that there'll be space for me to take on someone else because service is very important for me and my recovery and also that I get back to my program. But I, I shouldn't let myself get burned out either. So there's a balance there. Does that answer your question? Oh, yeah, I really appreciate it really because I hear so many people say I work 10, 11, 12 daily basis, but you know, ones that are long time like, please tell me what to do. So thank you. Thank you. Thanks, Nancy. Thanks, Nancy and Kathy. We have some, we have about eight minutes left. So I have a question for you, Kathy. So much for your share. You mentioned that you didn't get sober right away when you came into the program. And I'm wondering if you have any suggestions for people who just have like day one or 30 days or are here and would like to any suggestions about how to keep going. So the main thing is that to keep coming to meetings, meetings, meetings, meetings, and to not be isolated, even if I am acting out, to making sure that I've got phone numbers, that I have people who I can call and not putting myself in the driver's seat and not giving up on myself either. Although at that point, I really was thinking, well, I really like, what's the easiest after way? I mean, like I described the idea of getting sober to me seemed like doom. My life was going to be over it. 35 years old, that was going to be it. But that's typical addict thinking. And then, and I was still thinking that I could, I could live a good life, although that was kind of ebbing away that feeling. But I was still thinking, I don't need this program. I go to meetings and I hear mostly men at that point. There were just there was no phone meetings. It was just all in person meetings. And, and there were a few women, but mostly men. And I would think, well, I didn't do any of that. I can't relate to that. I'm not as bad as that. That was part of my process. But I, and I did keep on trying to get sober. I didn't give up. I kept on trying, and I kept close to the program. Yeah. Thank you, Kathy. Jerry, thank you. Thanks for everyone. And thank you, Kathy, very much for your share, extremely powerful and very helpful. Specifically, I was wondering if you could arrange to put the behalf that you spoke about on the 10th step, the questions and so forth. If you could push that in the chat, or I would like very much to have it and to have it on my phone. I think it'd be very helpful for me. So thanks. So I don't know if that's allowed here because it's not a 12 step. You know, it's not right, Michael. I mean, you know, it's not. We're a pretty liberal group. All right, good. Okay. I'm happy to put it. You know, I'm happy to do that. Yep, we'll do. Thanks, Jerry. Thanks. Okay, thank you. You've got time for some more questions or comments, and I see Nancy. You're muted, Nancy. Thanks. I was going to ask the question about when you said a very different way of working the steps. And I also have really moved in the direction of using the big book. I don't use any other guide. I just like go right to those words. But if you have a certain. This is, you know, it would be program literature. So I think you said you could stay after for a few minutes in the parking lot, and that would be something you could mention in the parking lot. But I would be curious to know what you use. What different way of just big book stuff you use. So it's not, I mean, I'm not sure. Yes, I can say after in the parking lot. Yes, they can. Yeah, I don't know if that was clear or if Margot, if you have another women that that was. That's okay. I understand what you're asking. Thank you, Nancy. Okay. Yeah. Nancy. Actually, so many questions. How in the world did you find women, long-term women? I mean, I'm still looking and even with them to connect with daily basis and you can't call international. And how do you find in the little cracks of corners of life? That's a good question. And, you know, I yeah, there was no communication with other centers. This was in Cambridge, Boston area in the in the early 90s. And so I, as I said, heard about essay from it ended up being two people in my food program, two women. In fact, there was my sponsor was the one my food sponsor was the one who told me about it. But then when I got to the meeting, I knew at least one other person very well and didn't know she was an essay. And then I think, you know, that women would come and go. So there would be times there might be five women and there would be times there were maybe three women. That's my memory anyway. I don't think it ever got passed. I don't know, 10. That's my memory. So and the people, there were at least two people, two women in that group who were sober for three or four years. And the other people, again, may have come and gone. I don't know. But we did. We would we actually had a women's meeting at one point, where we would, you know, meet in the same building as the other meeting. And that was really helpful because, you know, there were specific things that we as women maybe had gone through that we didn't hear talked about necessarily at the meetings. That's okay. So the women's meeting was a good, a good place for that. That was, yeah. Wow. Thank you so much. I would like to thank you for listening to this episode of The Daily Reprieve, the best source for experience, strength and hope for essay members. Please subscribe to this podcast to be alerted of new episodes. 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