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Stories Behind The Story: Genevieve Gannon On The Importance Of Community-Based Journalism

Genevieve Gannon talks to Cheryl about the evolving landscape of journalism and literature, the influence of the pandemic on her writing, and the importance of community-based journalism. Her latest novel, Inheritance, is out now.

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Broadcast on:: 27 Oct 2024
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This is the Better Reading Podcast platform with stories behind the story, Jane's Be Better podcast, my book chat with Caroline Overington, and more. Looking for a particular podcast? Remember, you can always skip to it. Welcome to the Better Reading Podcast, stories behind the story brought to you by Belinda Audio. Listen to Belinda audio books, anywhere, everywhere. Hi, this is Cheryl Arkel from the Better Reading Podcast, stories behind the story. We talk to authors about how they came to tell us their story. Genevieve Ganon, welcome to Better Reading. Thank you so much, Cheryl. It's a pleasure to be with you. Yeah, really interesting book. I'm really looking forward to this chat. Genevieve is an award-winning journalist based in Sydney. Over her 15-year career, she has worked as a frontline reporter in Canberra, Melbourne, Sydney, covering crime, health, social affairs and politics. She was a lead court reporter for Australian Associated Press and has been published in most major Australian newspapers. She is presently the senior journalist at the Australian Women's Weekly, where she is known for her in-depth articles on issues relating to health, rights and safety of women. So this is her latest book. It's called Inheritance. It's a family drama that explores the possibilities and dangers of designing the perfect child. And a lot, lot more than that as well, right? Now, I want to start Genevieve with your career because it really is quite comprehensive. And firstly, is this your first book? I don't have any information. Have you written fiction before or just nonfiction? Yes, this is sort of a complicated answer. It's my third book in print that you can go and buy in bookstores. But I also was part of that cohort that caught the digital book revolution. I think 2014, I got a contract with HarperCollins and I had a couple of e-books published. So I had three come out through their imprint, which was called Impulse. And that was really, really exciting. And in a way, it was kind of a great way to get almost an apprenticeship in being an author because you got... Practicing. Practicing, yes. He's got to do all of the... It was all the same as being a sort of a proof author. And it kind of felt like I'm hesitating because I don't want to imply that they're not as important, but it felt slightly lower stakes, I guess, because it's not going on to bookshelves. And it didn't get quite as much attention. Although, do you know, it's really interesting you bring that up because I was only talking about that the other day with someone at dinner. It's almost totally another market. And it's huge. Yeah. And I think it's changed a lot. Yes. And it's voracious, you know. Yes. You're definitely right. A lot of people are voracious readers of those e-books these days, but I think at the time it was quite... It hadn't quite found its feet, but actually Tess Woods, who has the Venice hotel coming out on the same day as inheritance. I know she's the most gorgeous woman, and I met her through that. And we've kind of had this publishing journey together and written books together. Well, I didn't know, Genevieve, I'm going to interrupt you right there, because I didn't know your friends with Tess, because I'm seeing her soon. But can we agree, I don't know if you've ever been in a car with her, that she has to be the worst driver on Earth? I've never been in a car with Tess. I didn't know that about her. Well, it's had in my version. Right. Well, look, she's so good at everything else. She's got to have some things that... She's wonderful. Just love her. I think she got when I was with her. She's kindly drove me around Perth, and I think, if I can remember correctly, and we still laugh about it. She got a parking ticket in a car park. I didn't even know that was possible. Yeah, I don't know that was possible either. Very funny. Anyway, go on back to you. Yeah, so I did three books under HarperCollins Impulse, and then March the same as this one, when I started working at the Women's Weekly, I did a story about the IVF industry, and as part of that, I came across this situation that has happened a few times where labs mix up embryos, and there was a particular case where two couples were fighting over a baby. One woman had given birth to the baby, not knowing that another woman's embryo had been implanted in her, and that was my first novel that got... It's not enough to screw up your life. I don't know what it was. Because regardless of how it ends up, it's still life altering, isn't it? It's so heartbreaking for just every single person involved, and it happens more than it should in America. It's never happened in Australia, but there have been a couple of cases around the world. So yeah, that was my first... It was called The Mothers, came out here in 2020. It was a pandemic novel. It came out in January, but I remember doing press in March, and everyone was kind of talking about, "Oh, what's this strange virus we're all hearing about?" And then we went into lockdown, so that was the mother's experience. But it's funny because this book, the pandemic features in inheritance, the new book. And they kind of are related in some ways because they both bore those issues of reproductive technology, and what happens if it doesn't go the way it's planned. I want to go back to the beginning of your career. Like, where did you grow up? Where did your passion for reading and writing start? Why did you become a journalist? Good question. I grew up in Melbourne. My aunt was a librarian, or is a librarian, and my mother teaches... She ran reading recovery, I don't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm gone. Yeah, so I'm focusing on literacy, and just big, huge readers. So our house was always, just full of books, and always encouraged to read really widely when I was younger. And I couldn't really pinpoint exactly when the journalism started, but I think it was always, I always really loved writing and reading, and I did work experience at the local paper and loved that. So I got a cadet ship in Canberra. So the local paper, not the Canberra Times, just sort of, it was called Canberra Chronicle, but I landed there in 2007. So even though we were just the local paper, we had, you know, Kevin '07 was blowing through, and it was that massive wipe-out election. So everyone was just, you know, I was going to all these press conferences, and it was like Peter Costello blowing in, and... It's where John Howard lost his seat. Which was how it last, yeah. Not only lost the election, but lost his seat. Yes, yes. So I flew baptismal fire, but really, yeah, it's... And were you reporting on politics then? So we were the local paper, so absolutely, covering when the politicians came to town and made announcements and so forth, but also, what do they call it? Roads, rates, and rubbish. She counts for matters. Like, residents, angry potholes haven't been filled, type thing, but it's a good place to learn. I mean, I remember those. I mean, we grew up. I was in Gleeb, so our local paper was called The Gleeb. Yeah, yeah. Tell me, do you think that that kind of journalism is missed? Do you think that that... I wonder sometimes whether it was community-based, and if we ever replaced it? Yeah, I do, and it's funny not to net drop, but since you asked. I am interviewing Diamorice on Friday. Lovely. Yes, and as you may know, she started a local paper, and ran it for 10 years, because she felt no one was holding the council to account. There was nowhere to sort of canvas local issues, and yeah, absolutely. I was in local papers for a long time, and they're really important, and the journey is doing the investigative work, or sort of paying attention to things that are the big dailies. I don't have the resources or the... Oh, the time for. Yeah, yeah. I guess too, like writing. It's probably a good place to practice as well, to get started. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So, did you kind of consciously think, "I like writing, I'm going to be a journalist?" Absolutely. Yeah. So, tell me what the next steps were. So, you moved on from community papers. Yeah. So, I was at the community paper in Canberra, and then moved to a wonderful community magazine called The Melbourne Times, which was a Fairfax Mag. So, we're in the same building as the age, and through that I got to do a bit of the call at the late stop, where you go and you sit up. I think it was from like 5pm till at one point, it might have been 5 till 2, just sort of trying to catch all that late breaking news, but it rolled back at the time I was there. You know, the print times became earlier, and you just weren't able to get something that happened at midnight into the next day's paper. Yeah, that was really enjoyable and thrilling. I was there during the Japanese tsunami. Oh, you know, sometimes it would be really quiet, but sometimes it was all hands on deck and got exposed to that more national level of reporting. I did a second cadet ship at AAP, because I just, the opportunity came up, and even though I'd been a journalist for several years, I realised that there were so few opportunities, and if I made a slide, we'd step I might make some headway. And I really loved that was fantastic. I learned how to do the old classic T-line shorthand, and did court reporting, and spent some time on the finance desk, and it was a really great education, and from there, yeah, spent some time doing a little bit of parliament in Victoria, a little bit parliamentary reporting, but mostly courts was my true love. It's really interesting and trying to report it in quite an empathetic way, because you see, I mean, you would know, sometimes you pick up the paper and the way crime can be covered can be really insensitive. And usually insensitive to women, and families. They're really conscientiously. Yeah, and there are some amazing reporters. You'll know this, Genevieve. There's a lot of criticism at the moment on Western journalists, I think, you know, firstly, because no one's paying attention to all the journalists that have been murdered. And that's not been reported running Gaza, but that's not another podcast. But there is criticism that it's becoming more and more, I won't say not truthful. I mean, you'll know this, but it's kind of really manipulating headlines and manipulating stories to suit the gender of the paper. Do you think that's true, or that we're just more critical? Oh, God. I wasn't prepared for that question. Yeah, look, I mean, yeah, you see the things, particularly in America, you see some of the things, distortion of the truth, yeah, even in some a paper like the New York Times, you know, sometimes you look about settings and you think, what? I haven't read the New York Times in a very long time. I couldn't comment specifically on the New York Times, but yeah, definitely. I don't know. Has it always been like that, though? It's so hard to know. And do you think with the challenges that media is having in terms of business modeling, do you think that that puts pressure on journalists? So we're short-cutting, or is it just the way that we're moving? It's just such fast news. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. That's a bit of a curly question. I suppose it depends, depending on what organization you're at and what the values of that organization, the values that organization holds. Yeah, it's hard to speak for all of them. I've been here probably eight years ago, could have given you a bit around, so when I was hanging out with all the other journalists and the core rounds, but I've been at the weekly for nearly eight years now. And not too naked itself to have a monthly that comes out of print. Yeah. So that's wonderful. Talk to me about that in the cycle. Yeah. How you got that job and why the weekly? Because it's such a loved masthead. It's a funny question. I loved being a court reporter, but I saw that the Women's Weekly was hiring, and I thought, God, that would be such a great job. And they specifically advertised for someone. They wanted someone with court reporting experience. And I think that kind of made me go, oh, there probably are a heap of female print reporters who would be willing to move to Sydney. I was in Melbourne at the time. I kind of thought, I've actually got a pretty good shot at at least getting an interview. You know, AAP gave you the opportunity to do a bit of feature writing. Yeah. And I called HR to ask about, ask about it. And they said, oh, the job's closed. And I remember thinking, oh, yeah, I remember thinking, well, that's the decision. Makes, I didn't want to leave my job. I didn't want to leave Melbourne. I just bought an apartment. But then I was chatting to the girl in HR, and she said, oh, she was like, I think she did send your resume. And if you send it in tonight, I'll add it to the pile. And so that was, I didn't even have a decision to make. I just thought, well, I'll send it in. I don't, if I get the job, I don't have to take it. And I just kept on progressing. I never thought I would get it because I'm the last entrance. Exactly. Exactly. And I thought, you know, a lot of people will apply for the job. And yeah, I just kept on progressing. And I was like, oh, no, I get this job. I'm going to have to move. And I was, you know, I was excited. It was such an amazing opportunity. But it just wasn't part of my plan at that time. But yeah, I joined at the start of 2017. Yeah. And have been here since. Forging ahead together drives Colorado's pioneering spirit at Chevron. We donate funding and volunteer thousands of hours in support of the communities we call home. We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer. All to help improve lives in our shared backyard. That's energy and progress. Visit Colorado.chefron.com. Hey there, it's Greenie and Humbo and we are back and better than ever got your answers is for sale. And if you are interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, Humbo, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky Humbo trivia questions. All that and a whole lot more. It's called got your answers. It's available anywhere you get your blogs right now. What's the major? Because I mean, it's one very different journalism to what you're doing. But the timing print monthly. I mean, that's so different to anything you've worked in, right? Yeah, we have very long lead times. We plan really in advance. But yeah, we also we're able to be pretty nimble if things change at the last minute, we're able to swap things out and stick things in and respond to the news that happens. If a significant figure who's sort of significant to the women's weekly readership, something happens either they become queen is a good example. In the case of Queen Mary or with the Queen dying, things like that, they're able to sort of shuffle things around. Don't you love working in an industry where you're working that far out? We're the same, a better one. We plan. And I was in the office yesterday and they had the 2025 board up. And I couldn't deal with it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's the future of February. Yeah. I was like, well, hang on a second now. I don't want to go there. I don't want to go there. It's so far out, isn't it? It is. It is. It's pretty crazy. Yeah. So you've got this stellar career. You've worked in pretty much all aspects of journalism. What then makes you want to or think you can even write fiction? How do you go about that? I just really, I think as someone who always enjoyed writing, I think it was the probably fiction came first. Yeah. And then journalism seems like the career, the stable career path that was more viable, but I always really enjoyed storywriting and husband hunters was published. That was the first one that did it all ebook. That was published in, I think it was 2014, but I had submitted so many manuscripts, like maybe four whole manuscripts before that. That's Genevieve. That's not a lot. I have spoken about this. Yeah. No, no, no. Four is not a lot. I have spoken to all those that have submitted a hundred. Well, yes, no, you're right. I know that it's not a lot, but it feels like a lot when you when you've written this forward, your heart and soul into this 80,000, which now that I look back on it really wasn't very good and should never have been published. But yeah, it feels it feels like a lot, but no, I know you're right. It can take a while to crack it. Yeah. And I do think, like we've said before, that it's practice as well. And sometimes, you know, I think we're publishing and we probably don't talk about this enough, is getting that story into the right hands, because publishing is not just one same, you know, pool of organization, if you like, everything is different. And within that, the individuals, like, you know, the editors and the publishers, some like some don't. So it's even just matching it at that micro level is really hard. And that sometimes happens quickly, because you're lucky, it hits the desk of somebody that loves it and loves that genre, for instance. But sometimes you learn on a desk where, you know, it's not, it's of no interest to that person. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So tell me about that and how you first got published and how you felt. Oh, God, it feels like such a long time ago. I will tell you a great story, which is it relates to my print book, Annette Barlow at Ellen and Unwin published The Mothers, my first. My first print novel. And she had red husband hunters, which was the first one half of Collins published the ebook. And she'd been really enthusiastic and she loved it and was wonderful. And then, it's so funny, because romance is huge at the moment, I think it's up like, I just saw on the ABC today, it's up like 37% of romance and historical fiction. Historical fiction, right? I didn't know that. But at the time, it was kind of chiclet rom-com, and it was having a downward, it was on a downward trajectory. And Annette sort of said, Oh, look, you know, I think it's really great, but they're just not, there's no appetite for it at the moment. But she was really kind. She came and she met with me in Melbourne and she practiced a copy of The Husband's Secret by Leanne Moriarty into my hands and sort of said, you know, keep going and was just absolutely wonderful. And then, when I like years later, when I was working for the Women's Weekly, I accidentally got copied in on a publicity conversation that several people at Ellen and Unwin were having about a completely different author, including Annette. And I opened my my Hotmail and they were like eight emails back and forth between all these people at Ellen and Unwin. And I wrote to Annette and I said, Oh, sorry, Annette, I just, I want to let you know I've been copied into this. You know, it seems it wasn't sensitive, but it was confidential stuff. I just said, Oh, look, you know, just letting you know, I'll delete them. I'm not going to, I'm not going to blackmail you or anything with this secret information. And, and she said, Oh, you know, how are you? And are you writing? And I just so happened to have recently finished The Mother. And she remembered you? Yeah, yeah. Wow. Isn't that wonderful? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she said, she said, are you writing? And I said, are you writing? And I said, are the mothers? And I had an agent, Jean recommends that key people is my agent. And I can't remember exactly the chronology, but she was a huge champion for it as well. And it ended up publishing it in some ways, because of this accidental inclusion. So yeah, that's happened. Isn't that an amazing story? And if you hadn't kind of bowed out and written that email, maybe that would never have happened. Maybe not. I feel like, I feel like Sean would have taken it to her and said, I know you have to publish this. So she's an amazing advocate. So, but no, it is, it is a funny little moment of kids. Okay, so before we go, tell me about the inheritance and tell me about how that came about. Yeah. So the inheritance, again, it was a, it was a women's weekly article I was doing. I read this book by an anthropologist named Evan Kirksey, and it was about the future of gene editing and this technology called CRISPR. So two women, Jennifer Doudna and Emmanuel Shappante, had won the Nobel Prize in chemistry for, I guess it's not really discovering, it's more synthesizing or understanding how to wield this tool, which has now become this really effective gene editing tool. And one of the concerns that was, you know, it was revolutionary and it has so many applications. She was here for the Sydney Right Assessment recently and she's just, she's wonderful. And the possibilities are incredible, including things for climate change. It's a lot around heritable diseases and things like that is where I think people see the most potential. But there was this question that was really brought to light by these Chinese scientists of what if we start editing the humans, editing embryos, and it happened. So people were warning this could happen. And then in 2018, a Chinese scientist made an announcement that he had edited twin girls so that they would no longer be able to contract HIV because their father was HIV positive. And Evan wrote this book about the possibilities and peril of gene editing. And it was so fascinating. And it was, it felt really like a natural extension of the mothers, which is this idea of this wonderful technology that helps people build families, but what happens when it doesn't quite go right. So I actually printed out the article because some of his quotes were quite amazing. He said at one point, science has uncovered a bunch of characteristics that could be tinkered with, for example, expected parents who opt for babies with unbreakable bones might also want to consider editing BDK BD2, which occurs naturally in the scene romance of Southeast Asia. And he's linked to the ability to hold their breath from an extraordinary long time underwater. So it's the novel and the conversation, Evan and I. So these quotes are from who? Just from an academic, he's at Oxford now. His name is Evan Kurtzey. And he wrote a book called The Mutant Project. So he put this book out. And I just interviewed him to say, you know, what are the, what are the possibilities and perils? And we had a really interesting conversation and it is quite an extrapolation. It's not a simple matter of one gene, one edit, but from a novel writing perspective, like what a fun exercise to imagine. Well, I'm imagine if you have those tools, right, if they're available to you, and this is what you were talking about in the book, that, you know, if you've got the Cancer gene, I don't know what's called the Bracker gene. Of course, you want that edited out, you know, like, there are so many obvious things, you know, if you've got the dementia, I'm just making these up. I don't know if there's a dementia gene, but, you know, or, you know, whatever it is, there's that motor neurone disease, ALS, or is that what it's called? Yeah, that's awful. And so past actual family. So I guess we're talking about whether it's morally right to do this or ethically right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the unintended consequences. And it's interesting that you've been the Bracker gene because I spoke to a biologist named Paul Mofler, and he specifically mentioned the Bracker gene, because, you know, women have their breasts and ovaries removed. So imagine if there's a hypothetical baby and you can just tweak that gene so that you not only will she not have the risk of that gene becoming a disease, but she won't pass it on to future generations. And it's that idea of the temptation and where that line is and when you stop meddling. And also, if you tweak this, what other implications might there be? And again, it's interesting you mentioned dementia, because the Chinese doctor who did the original, the little girls, Lulu and Nana, if anyone's interested, you can Google them. His name's Hijian Quai. And he was jailed. There were sort of serious questions about the scientific rigor and the ethics of what he was doing, what he did. But he's out now and he's now doing research around Alzheimer's and the genetic, what you could do at a genetic level to stop the risk score, to limit the risk score. I don't really know, but I know that that's the area that he's interested in. Because this is going to sound like it's way off topic, but it's not. In the state of, let's say, US politics at the moment, and where we have this craziness happening, like Donald Trump, people said to me years ago, because I'm a frequent visitor, I go to this United States every year. People said to me, people I interviewed journalists, authors, all sorts of people, friends over there, that the system has been in place for hundreds of years, and the system won't break. But the system is going to break if Trump gets reelected, right? And I'll get back to what you're talking about in terms of manipulating genes or manipulating embryos, because the system relied on as much process as goodwill and good people being in those roles, right? And good advisors. And when that's not happening, when gentlemen, if you like, or gentle women, are in those positions, then you've got a problem, the system breaks. And that's the same in the area of science. If you've got somebody that holds no values. Yeah, you're dead right. And Paul Mottflaw specifically spoke to that issue of regulation around agreeing with embryos. And he said that there was radical deregulation by Donald Trump across the board. And he said that they're expecting Biden to reign it in. And I don't know if that was something that he did during his first term. But there's definitely things that are a lot looser in America. And there is medical tourism, people going over there for IVF, because there are clinics and doctors there who will do things that you can't have done in other countries. And it's not gene editing, but it's things like sex selection. It's things like eye and hair color selection. So some of the things that the book engages with are already happening. So those people are doing that now? Yes, but they're not doing it through gene editing. It's through selection of embryos. So they're not doing editing yet. But they are sort of beginning to play with this idea of you can choose certain things about your child. Yeah. Yeah, well, frightening. You've got to read this book. It's called inheritance, Genevieve Ganon. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you, Cheryl. It's been lovely chatting with you. 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We also employ our neighbors to deliver the energy needed as the state's largest oil and natural gas producer. All to help improve lives in our shared backyard. That's energy and progress. Visit colorado.chefron.com Hey there it's Greenie and Humber and we are back and better than ever got your answers is for sale and if you are interested in winning every sports debate you have for the rest of your life, this is the book for you. We take the 100 biggest sports debates and answer them, settle them once and for all. Meanwhile, Humber, what's your favorite part of the book? 100 sneaky Humber trivia questions. All that and a whole lot more. It's called Got Your Answers. It's available anywhere you get your books right now. If you enjoyed this podcast, leave us a review and check out the other podcasts on the better a reading network.

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