[MUSIC PLAYING] Three seconds left, and that will do it. A workman-like roadwind for the Maple Leafs, as they dismantle the Philadelphia Flyers by a score of 6 to 2. I feel pretty good in a couple of dearest. I'm a family of C-friends, and in a league state, all the fuck is really hard for us. You know, like, fresh mind today. And, you know, like, you want to go to the ice again, yeah? Because it was hard schedule for us in the last few months. And, yeah, I mean, like, excellent. You know, like, enjoy the play. [MUSIC PLAYING] Bad morning, girls, sports 9.5.9 in the van. And, as Brent Gunning, the Toronto Maple Leafs, the 6-2 victory in Philadelphia over the John Tortorellas Flyers. Ilya Sampsonov did not allow a 5-on-5 goal against one shorthanded, one on the power play, as the Maple Leafs enjoy a victory headed into Saturday's game against the Carolina Hurricanes. So Ilya Sampsonov for the season. His save percentage is still not so great. There is really not enough time for him to save it. I don't think 8.89 is the save percentage. But, again, in an overall sense, his two years as a goaltender for the Toronto Maple Leafs, 9.07. If you combine last year's 9.19 and this year's 8.89 together, so maybe there was some regression that we always should have expected the beginning of the season. So that's one conversation. Sure. And I think we can all agree that the best indicator, and that it's not perfect, there's no perfect number. But if you're going to take one number to evaluate a goal to enter a probably be safe percentage, right? Yeah, if you're going to take one very, very baseline one, I think, obviously, they're like, you know, nerd stats that people would like all expected goals. No, I don't even think that one. I think some people will just look at high danger. It's like, if you're great at that and you can handle all the rest, that is what makes a guy leap. But it's like, how about goals saved above average? Oh, I love that one. Negative 12.3. Oh, okay. Last year, 17.4, that was good. Negative 12.3 was also his goal saved above average in his final season with the Capitals when they were like, hey, former first round pick, we're not even going to qualify you as a restrictive free agent. Anyways, that tracks, especially the early season, Elia Sampsonov, very much so. Awful. But even when early season, Elia Sampsonov couldn't stop a beach ball. Recall, even in that last game that broke the camel's back against the Columbus Bluejack, 'cause he got a point out of that thing. I do remember. Oh, this is not a regulation loss. Here's Elia Sampsonov's record this season, as he's now among the league leaders in win percentage, 18, five, and six. Brent, does that mean anything to you? The win loss record means something. If you are a goalie playing on a good team, you better rack up wins, okay? If you're somebody playing on an ulcer and I don't look at it at all, I don't say, oh, come on, you gotta find a way to steal one, every, no, I don't look at that. But if you're a goaltender playing for a team as good as the Leafs or, and it doesn't have to just be the Leafs, you pick other teams, you say the Rangers or the Flames, or sorry, not the Flames, the Panthers could chuck on the brain, always will be, or Boston for that matter. You better have a good record. So I think it is important in that it's a must have caveat, but I don't know that it is, I don't know that I'm all the way to the eyes, Grant Fier, he just saves the one he needs to. I don't know that I'm going quite that far. You're, you're right, because a lot of that record not being horrible was in the early part of the season where he was, like there's just no question he was horrible. He was awful. Go back to the first game of the season when Austin Matthews had to put on the case. Victory, though, that's why I picked it. Yeah, against the Montreal freaking Canadians. But I will say, Ilya Sampsonov, when the game's on the line, even if he's allowed one that's not like horrible, but like, yeah, he's like, okay, could have made that save. If the game is on the line, at least in the second part of his season, since he's come back and going back to last year and going back to the playoffs, there was something to him in his brief tenure as a Maple Leaf. I think he does come up with the big save more often than not. And I can talk about the percentage chance. I think he's going to start game one of the postseason. Let's talk about how we feel about it. Sure. And who we would put in the net for game one of a postseason series against the Bruins or the Panthers. Okay, I have one more number to throw at you. And I think this will provide some context. I won't alter my answer, but I do want to throw this in there. We're talking numbers. She's going to read you his save percentages month over month this year, 841, 905, 828, 939, 888, 933. And that all works out to an 878 this year. Do you put, he has been super inconsistent this year, but he has consistently had a good month, followed up with a bad month from a save percentage, a loan perspective. Did you put any credence into that as a unable to stitch it together for long periods of time? I don't know, but I see these numbers. And if we're going to throw out the goal to anyone's, I think that one is pretty, we now, and he has played, this isn't a case where, oh, he's played a wide ranging number of games. No, they've all been outside of February where he was, you know, it was one of his worst month of the season, but he played eight games in that. They've all been five games or four games, like a consistent amount of games he's played across the board. Yeah, he's been consistent, but I view the inconsistency as, like, bad, and then good, because since he's come back, the same percentage is like 909, right? Since he's been recalled from the American League, and the eye test would match that. It would lead you to the place that, hey, that's pretty close to the guy that we saw when he was healthy, be one of the best goalies the NHL last year, and be factually the only goalie in recent Leafs history to win a postseason series. And that being said, again, I put him at 70% as the factual starter for game one of the postseason series for the Toronto Maple Leafs. And for me, as long as everybody's play, like if Joe Wall plays well, and Ilya Sampsonov plays pretty well, like if those two guys perform equally down the stretch and you don't see some huge pullback from Sampsonov, I would 100% start him in game one of a postseason series because he's the incumbent, because I have now institutional memory, you can even go as far as to say, and Damien Cox keeps saying it, that him getting injured for the Panthers series is a huge part of that conversation. Now, numbers-wise, save percentage-wise, Joe Wall was fine. Yep. Sir Gary Mabroski was better. I mean, is there a zero percent chance that Ilya Sampsonov is healthy in that series? And he battles a guy that got all the way to the cup final, and single-handedly wins that series for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Now, he didn't single-handedly win it in the first round in the six games against the Tampa Bay Lightning, but he's on the short list of guys that were the best in that series. The Mount Rushmore of Leafs who mattered for sure. It's like Matthews is five goals, and Tavares has the OT winner in game six, but Sampsonov outdueled Andre Vasugalevski, and I think he's- He's been working Riley's name before I get mad. And Morgan Riley and Luke Shen were- And a revelation. Just playoff Riley, we could not talk with playoffs, and I'll bring that up, sir. But for me, that matters. And not to say that it's all not going to go haywire. It's goal-attending, it could. But you have to lean to the guy that you've seen do it before. I just, it's kind of where I started the week wondering about this, is that I thought Joe Wall was kind of running out of time to get the net. He was going to have to be good, but he was going to need Sampsonov to falter. And I think now it's got to the point where there's just, there's not enough games that Joe Wall's going to play in. Short of him being transcendent in almost all of them, you now have this body of work from Sampsonov. Now, I think I'm a little more- I want to be clear, we both believe goal-attending is like a little voodoo, and who knows, but nobody believes that more than me. And I still am like wincing, waiting for the other shoe to drop. But how can you go away from Sampsonov given what he's given you, given the track record in the past? And I think this part has to be said, it's again, watch the games. It's the style of saves he's making. He's comfortable when the game gets kind of, you know, ornery and there's a lot of action around him. And that's supposed to be Joe Wall's thing is he's supposed to be the calm guy. And not to say he hasn't been, but if Sampsonov can steal just a little bit of that, it's eye-opening to what it could be. Now, this is also the guy who is vacillated between an 800, below 800 and a plus 900, say percentage every single month of the season. And that's the part of this that I just have trouble believing in. Do I think he's the best option for the Leafs right now? Yes. Am I of the belief that he will be the best option in the playoffs roll around? Yes. But that number to me, the more I think about it, just the fluctuating save percentages month over month, that doesn't mean anything to me. Oh, well, he obviously is going to have a bad month next month. But it just proves to me that it's been a guy who's been unable to carry the mail for long chunks of time. Dude, yeah, you're right. Long chunks of time. And he's been horrible. And obviously he's felt pressure in the regular season. You know what's pressure packed? Being in an overtime in a game six where you let in a goal, you're going to like the dreaded game seven again against the Tampa Bay Lightning. You're in one goal games in the third period. And yeah, trying to hold the fort so that your team can come back and score a six on five goal to send it to overtime. Like he's been in the most pressure packed moment outside of, yeah, Stanley Cup moments. But for this team with the weight of history and expectation in a series against your division rivals, I mean, nothing's going to supersede. Like you can talk about Joe wall playing well in that series, but not well enough to win. Like he's been as far as the wars are concerned for this team. And again, it's only one series victory, but he was there like that counts, not for nothing. That's legit. - No, I wholeheartedly agree that it has to count for something. And I just, not to say you throw away Joe wall's performance and not to completely rule out the possibility of Samson of being a difference maker in that series. And he gives him a chance and all of a sudden it's in a game six. And yeah, once you get to game six, really anything can kind of happen. I'm a believer of that. But when you talk about the moment not being too big for him and not eating him alive, I agree with you. That has been the case in the biggest moments, but outside of, and maybe you feel differently about this, but outside of Jack Campbell of any of the goalies of recent vintage, like I guess we'll kind of go, I mean, it's just Freddie, Jack. And then now you got Samson off a wall. I throw my Murray in there. Has it been a confidence thing that you think has been what's been the Leafs goal tending undoing? 'Cause I don't think that was the case of Freddie Anderson. I just felt like there was always one you didn't like. With Jack Campbell, yes, I will hear confidence because he lets in one goal when he's ready to retire, because how can he let the boys down that way? But that's the kind of interesting thing. I think about that stuff and confidence in the moment getting you, even with Matthews and Marner to a certain extent before I do with Leafs goalies. Yeah, I guess there's something- I don't know the right to feel that way, but it is kind of where my first plus reaction goes. Well, because you think about a lack of confidence and you think about the obvious goal that like should have been stopped. You think about, well, Jake Gardner and some of the interesting plays that we've seen, like he's gonna eat it forever, right? Or even Freddie Anderson and I know boy, it was such an incredible thing to see the Leafs in a series that they were hard fought against in the first year of Austin Matthews against the Washington Capitals, but I go back to what was the overtime goal in Game 2. Stinky. Yeah, it's like, yeah, to me, that's a confidence thing. I think what I think most about when it comes to this vintage of Toronto Maple Leaf School tenders is, yeah, just not out doing the other guy, not being better than the other guy. When the team as a whole, again, Leafs in six games against the Lightning last year was not their best series against the Lightning just aesthetically. It's the year previous. Yeah, no, I agree with you. But they lost that game in seven games, or they lost it in seven games. You're allowed to win on the strength of your goaltender. We just haven't seen the series in which the Leafs have had the better goaltender than the other team. You can make the argument even in the Panthers series that, okay, like aesthetically, you take the goaltending out of it, like right there, it didn't deserve to lose in five games, but yeah, you're allowed to have the better goaltender, and especially when you're paying a guy 10 million bucks, that the Leafs have, for the first time in this era, had a guy who out-dueled the other guy, and it's not some bum. Now the injury that the Andre Vassalowski had to have surgery for in the off-season might have impacted his performance in that series, and maybe we'll never get the Hall of Fame Andre Vassalowski. No, you're doing it wrong. You say he took it. Like he stole the great Russian goalie from him. That's the way you got to do it. It's like, he said I'm packing. No, they figured out how to beat Andre Vassalowski. High shots from the point, which he can't see, apparently. Anyways, he did, he's never lost a postseason series that he has completed for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Yeah, he was also like, he was in goal for the first two Panthers games and part of the third one. Well, that's the thing. I really should look up which game it happened, and I reference it all the time, but whether it was game two or game three, there was two goals in the first minute and a half or something like that in the second period, and the series was over from that point on. That was kind to it. They never really looked back. They never had a chance after that, and I suppose goal tending goes to that. You could say, hey, make one of those saves, and it's a different game, but the team just completely hung them out to dry in that instance. So I have no issue with Sampsonov. This isn't me sitting here saying it should be wall, saying I have more confidence in wall. I do have confidence in Sampsonov. I guess the more I'm realizing this is until I know what it looked like when the Leafs have a Vesna goalie. And I don't think we'll be seeing that here anytime soon. - I mean, it must be said, like Freddie Anderson during some regular season. - Yeah, my God. - He's got some votes. - He's got votes. But until I know what it's like to watch Connor Hellubak every night or Shastirkin or Sorokin or Jake Ottinger, don't want to forget him. Pick your guys who are in the club. I think this is kind of the amount of confidence I'm capable of having in a goalie. 'Cause yeah, he had the awful swoon, but all he's done is be more or less great since then, and the teams win him with him. - And if I can't get behind that, it's a me problem, it's not a him problem. As I guess the thing I've now realized 18 minutes into this conversation. - Yeah, let's not throw shade to Freddie Anderson, who was fourth in Vesna voting in 17-18, and then 10th in Vesna voting in 18-19. But yeah, let's not also look up his game seven record. So that's not so great. - Oh, all right. Now we're less than two weeks away from the start of Blue Jays regular season. And seems clear at this point, Alec Manoa will not be part of the rotation to start the season. - Safe assumption. - Yeah, Ben Nicholson Smith has a write up on him on the website on sports.ca his shoulder that was barking is feeling better by the day. - It'd be great if there was like an animal scale. It's like, yeah, it's actually just bond, like a sheep now. It used to be a big, angry dog, but it's just like meowing better or worse. - I don't know, that's why we got to work on a scale. Anyways, it's getting better, apparently. And he's throwing off flat ground, which ain't thrown off a mound, and it's certainly not pitching in a Grapefruit League game. So clearly he's going to start the season, at least on the injured list, if not just option down to AAA and trying to work his way back to the major leagues. Bowden Francis has looked great in Grapefruit League, which doesn't mean all that much, unless you're trying to make the team, which Francis is factually. - Yep. - That's all we got. Although he was great in his role that he performed in last year, which is Mr. Mopup Man. - Yeah, right now. - Right now, or more to me than Grapefruit League stuff. - Okay. Yeah, he was really good when the game was out of hand, both ways winning and losing last season, and, but whatever, the guys are still trying to get hits off him. - He didn't only pitch to who's in front of him. - That, that's right. Kevin Gossman, the reports are as good as you could have expect, missing a start in Grapefruit League and whether he makes his first start of the season in game five or it's game 10 or whatever. Like, I don't think the reports on Kevin Gossman should be too concerning. So maybe it's like Bowden Francis and Mitch White making a start the first time through the rotation, but it feels like it'll be Bowden Francis and probably Kevin Gossman at least through the second time through the rotation. What if Bowden Francis is really good or good enough? And you're like, well, there's no reason to mess with success here. And Kevin Gossman is healthy and if he's healthy, I think we all expect him to be Kevin Gossman. And the rotation is, as we expect it to be now, it's a long season. So I don't expect the Blue Jays only need five starters or even six. But what if, what if everything's in place and the rotation looks good and we're like, couple of weeks, a month in, and Alec Manoa is back to pitching in minor league games and he's also performing. Like maybe he looks like the Alec Manoa a couple of years ago in the International League. Brent, this is a guy that maybe not explicitly, but all the reporting we had about last season didn't deal with demotion the way. - This is Manoa you're talking about, just for everyone listening to Mike. - What about him, Francis? - No, Alex Manoa wasn't so pleased in the way he was handled. Now, part of that is he thought he was injured and thought maybe an I.L. Stent was more appropriate for him, but no, it didn't like being a minor leaguer. Thought he was beyond that. - Love that service time too. - He thought he was beyond that. What if just by a matter of numbers, he has to remain a minor leaguer? - I'm big on Bowdoin Francis. I am, like I think this should be, you know, take him with a grain of salt. I don't think it's a say young Bowdoin Francis or anything like that. But I think he can be, I don't want to say a worst case. The worst case he flames out and you never see from again. But I think there's a world where he's at least crumulant major league back end of the rotation starter. If Alec Manoa is able to force the issue with this conversation in terms of his performance and his work ethic and the way his dealings are with the team and I don't even say that to say it's questioned. They're just saying that's all part and parcel of this. Then you still need to, if it's earned and you see Alec Manoa, capital A Alec Manoa, then I'm sorry, but you have to find a way to get him back here. But I think that Francis will provide you with enough of a baseline that you won't be talking yourself into getting Manoa back. That it won't be, yeah, you know, he's making them strides, always touching 97. You like where his Velos at, oh, the slider, he's not getting guys out, but it's got a little more movement, it's got a little more bite. You like that that can be a pitch for him. I think that Francis will provide enough of a floor that you won't have to talk yourself into Manoa. That is what I think his greatest kind of like utility will be as. - Even if Alec Manoa is not performing like the Cy Young Award contender that he was, the first two years, his first two years in the Major Leagues, here's my guess, is that Alec Manoa is going to believe that he deserves a call up, that he is that guy and that like, what am I doing down here? And like, it almost won't matter to him how well Bowdoin Francis is pitching. He'll point to track record and it's only two years and like the most recent track record is you stink, right? And it's just, sorry, that's the way pro sports goes and there's mitigating circumstances, but blah, blah, blah. - Yeah, that's the brakes. - I just, I could see a scenario and this isn't, I'm not just making something up out of nothing. Again, we have this recent track record of this guy and some of the conversations I've had with people who were closer to the situation than me about, hey, at the end of last season, like, we could see a divorce here between the player and the organization because they are just not seeing eye to eye and there's some real animosity between the two and more in the direction of Alec Manoa towards the team than the team towards Alec Manoa that he doesn't like the way he's been treated. Could you see a world where Alec Manoa, again, like, John Schneider at the outset of this thing was like, that guy's our fifth starter, right? Like, that's the guy that all things being equal. He's gonna be in the rotation. - Well, and if John Schneider's saying it, where's that coming from? - Sure, let's just be honest. - But you also, that makes all the sense in the world. Alec Manoa is the fifth starter and like, Bowdoin Francis as a backup plan, but there's a scenario in which Bowdoin Francis could have been, yeah, the sixth starter, but starting in Buffalo of Alec Manoa looked like Alec Manoa, but because of the injury or the barking of the shoulder, he's been removed from that conversation. But if Alec Manoa thinks that he's healthy and he's like, okay, how about the thing that you said earlier where I was a part of the rotation? And yeah, Bowdoin Francis is doing a good job, but I'm Alec Manoa. I, again, it hasn't happened yet, so we're like projecting a little bit, but it's not based on nothing because of the way he handled being demoted in a situation where I clearly merit based, he didn't deserve to be a major leaguer. - No. - And he didn't see it that way a season ago. - Yeah, I think it's far from a rosy outcome if he does anything other than perform well enough to get himself very, very quickly back to the big leagues, but it's baseball, like, what's he gonna do? You know, like you can't do anything. - That's the thing, it's like team measure rights and perpetuity and it's, you know, he's already started the clock on service time and working his way towards free agency and all that, but it's forever, like, that's the thing, is okay, so he's gonna salt him. - And injuries, and again, like even if-- - He's gonna salt him Buffalo, okay, good for him. - And even if Bowdoin Francis is good, somebody's gonna get hurt, although the Blue Jays do have this rotation that is-- - What is his option, status, Francis? - He's got plenty. - Yeah, okay, I figured as much. - No, no, no, he's, yeah. - Well, so then it's really just a moot point. Is that Manoa pitch well enough to get here? And if he does, great, see you later Bowdoin Francis, and if not, then okay, you get to be grumpy and Buffalo. - I mean, I guess, but like, what if Bowdoin Francis is good? - No, I am not, I should clarify. I feel like I said that to start. I am not discounting that possibility. - You're right, the most likely outcome is Bowdoin Francis, well done, or like, hey, Kevin Gossman actually needs a couple more weeks, and hey, I'm not, I'm not ruling that, I would either. - Although I wouldn't say that the most likely scenario is that Alec Manoa is looking like the old Alec Manoa, like I think there's a situation where, whoa, okay, the first couple starts looking a lot, like the first start we saw in the Grapefruit League, and maybe eventually he gets there, but it's not an obvious situation where he, oh, there's the old guy. - Oh no, I'm very much of the belief that this will not come to a head, 'cause I think it will just be a player who has fleeting moments of success that allow him to think I should be a big leaguer, but I don't think it's gonna come fast and furious by any means, and I think Francis will pitch more than fine enough to not have the hand first. - Could be some interesting early days in Buffalo with Ricky Tiedemann, Alec Manoa, Joey Votto, maybe in the lineup for the Bisons. All right, we should give them the jacket. The Bisons, yeah, they should have a Bison-specific jacket or the actual Blue Jays, Joe Blue Jays one, just so nobody up here tries to wear it. I don't think that's a guy. - I don't think so either. Vlad would ask to be, he'd be like, "Send me with Alec, I need it." He would prefer the jacket over being a manager leaguer. Some days. All right, when we come back, your friend in mind, Sam McKee, a real Kipper and born, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, sports net 590, the fan. Big guests and bigger opinions on everything happening in Leaf's land. Real Kipper and born, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. - Fan morning show, sports net 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, things are kind of getting the interesting in the Eastern Conference. - Mm, not for the Leafs. - No, well, just agree. - God forbid, always interesting in Leafland. - Sure, but God forbid, again, not, God, I'm old enough to remember how amazing it was gonna be the Leafs were playing important games down the stretch and how they were gonna be the Panthers of 2023. Getting into the playoffs in the last second and then going on this incredible run. Nope, we're back at the spot we've been at basically every single season outside of the first one where they get into the playoffs and then have to face the President's trophy champion, Washington Capitals, but yeah, they're locked into third. - Now this is different than when we used to say it about the Blue Jays, but what was the old creed for the Blue Jays? Meaningful September baseball. It's like, for the Leafs, are we just, are we clamoring for meaningful March hockey? - Not really, it's not the same. - No, not really. - 'Cause guess what, games are gonna matter a lot. - Yeah, it's fine. And ultimately, it allows you to give Mitch Marner all the time he needs, give Kalyan Krog all the time he needs. If you wanna force feed, Joel Wall starts with, "I don't wanna do." I'd honestly be force feeding it the other way. I would prefer to have Ilya Samsonov starting game one of a post-season series. - Cultating so funny, I'm like, "Ah, but then you risk using up all the pixie dust now." - I'm mostly joking, but I'm not. - Yeah, it's like going to the range before you round. It's like, you don't wanna hit too many good shots. - I even go one further. I'm not a big, like, practice swing before I take a shot guy, 'cause what if I clip it just right? - That's insane. - But I mean, there's a lot to do. - But you get it, yeah. - Anyways, the Eastern Conference playoff race, it's a thing now, all of a sudden, is the Red Wings, I mean, they're losing other coyotes. They're putting their in the toilet to a serious degree. They're still tied on points at 72 with the Islanders, but the Islanders now have a game in hand who lost in regulation to the Sabers yesterday. Sabers only three points back, but the Islanders with two games in hand on the Sabers, they do have another matchup to come to capitals. I mean, they're one point back, and they played the same number of games as the Islanders. Got some interesting regular season games in the Eastern Conference still to come. And even though they are all meaningless going forward, unless Leafs really put it in the tank here, yeah, all these Leaf games are also of great intrigue, which leads us to our next guest. Sam McKee of Real Kipper and Born, waking up early for us. How's it going, Sammy? - Good morning, gentlemen. Fine, how are you guys? - Doing all right, let's start with this. Compare the way you feel about Tyler Burtuzzi today to the way you felt about him on, I don't know, December 1st. Um, I always wanted to love this game, so I was lying to myself for a while about him. I was kind of just staying in the camp of, this will start to turn around, this will start to turn around, he's not this bad of a player, I watched him play in Detroit, know the kind of guy he is, watched him last year in Boston, and the fruits of my frustrating labor are starting to come in here. I think he looks good, think he looks really good, and the games are heading towards getting bigger here, we're heading into the spring, that's daylight savings time, and Tyler Burtuzzi's starting to look like Tyler Burtuzzi. It's encouraging for me, so I'm happy. - Yeah, I think you'd, I agree with all that, and yeah, you were making fun of me, 'cause I said early this year, he was trending to have a David Clarkson-like start, which there were a lot of caveats in there, and I did say that, but he couldn't be further-- - Except the six last years on the contract, a big problem, a big difference there. - Yeah, but you know, kind of an important year, maybe more important than David Clarkson's first year, we don't need to relocate that. - I mean, that is a, I mean, that's in the eye of the beholder. At the time, it was an important year for the Leafs. - I mean, you know me, every year is an important year for the Leafs, but this one, they certainly feel like they have just a touch more imports now. I'll kind of copy and paste the question, but about Domie, you know, it hasn't happened as much on the score sheet with him as it has for Burtuzzi as of late, but you're seeing all the max Domie stuff. He's a jerk, he's drawing, and you know, as some people say, roll their eyes, that stuff doesn't matter. Hard disagree, boy, do I think it does. Like, what does it mean for the Leafs to have a couple of guys like this who are just yappy and yippy and are, you know, unafraid to get in a fight if they need yappy or yippy? - Yeah, I was gonna say yippy or yappy or what. I think Burtuzzi's been pretty, I mean, sorry, Domie's been really good, kind of point wise too. He's, you know, he's, I think he had two points against Montreal, he had a point last night. He's been producing a bit more recently. - I, we did this on Real Kipper and born the other day, Sawn's Kipper where we were talking about what are, what team had the best team be? You know, the best supporting cast? And we looked back at all the different ones over the years. And the reason that I kind of brought it up as an idea is because I'm starting to feel better about this one than I have in years. I think last year is clearly the best one. - Yeah. - Based on just results, right? Like, it's hard to say that it wasn't the best one when they've had the most result, or the best result they've had since I was in high school. - There's no cons. My trophy winner on this, this team be. - Well, that's the fun part about it is, is that like basically all of them had the exact same result. So it's very like, you know, fair to compare all of them. So, but I actually do think that this year's is trending towards being the best one. I, I really do, you know, I think I like the direction that they've kind of gone in here. And, you know, Domie and Bertuzzi are both sort of playoff type performers. And there's two things I really like about Domie. And you mentioned the yippy-yappy there. What a, your beautiful soliloquy there. - Yippy-yay, I'll just say that. What we're coming at, yeah. - Yippy-yappy, but I do like, I do like Domie's speed. I think Domie's speed is something that this team lacks. And you've seen it throughout this year where there's a loose puck somewhere or a puck kind of gets squirted out to the neutral zone. You can beat guys in a straight line really well. And he's been shooting it more and he's showing off his shot. But yeah, I really do think that once the playoffs start, that these two guys are going to be huge and that we're going to be, you know, having the conversations about them being fan favorites and they're both scoring big goals for the least in the playoffs. I love them lately. - Yeah, I hated the Tyler Bertuzzi start to the season, but I will say Brent and I were both of the opinion. It's hard to gauge, you know, a couple of guys whose, you know, best attributes come through their emotional, when they're yipping and yapping. - Yeah, they're yipping and they're yapping. They feed on emotion quite a bit. And we've seen in the emotional games that those guys have come through. So that's good. That's a positive reason to think that the Leafs are going to have the ultimate success or more success this spring. What's top of the list of reasons, boy, there's so many, right, and you can, I guess, go to the unquantifiable as far as the reasons that you think that it's all going to come apart for the Leafs at the end of April here. But what is the thing that most concerns you headed towards the postseason? - Hmm, I mean, how much time you got? - No, I know, but give me, give me one. Give me the top, what's at the top of the mountain? Say something tangible, because don't say history, don't say, don't say ghosts. Like say, say something, I already took that one. I mean, they, can I say that they wear blue and white? - No, that's the same thing. - I already took all those. - I mean, it's just that the propensity of the Leafs' highest-paid players to disappear at the worst possible time would probably be the number one concern. - I mean-- - Is that fair? - Yeah, it's not unfair, until proven otherwise, it's not unfair. - I don't know. - Like, sure, goalie, defense. Their defense isn't very good. Like, I just, I think we can have all these conversations about supporting cast and team A and team B and goalies and defense, but it always comes down to Mitch Marner, Austin Matthews, kind of going away in the big ones, boys. - Okay, so how much of that is, I'm sure you heard this adora of quote from earlier in the week. How much of that is what we're talking about? It's just the lack of that dog for lack of a better term. - I think a lot of it has to do with that. And listen, there's people on the other side of this will say that guys don't start winning until they get into, you know, age 26, 27, they have a lot of failures for the good point. - Are you doing an impression there? Are you changing your voice, playing the role of that guy person? - I don't know, am I? - I don't know. - Did I? - It was hard to tell. That's why I was legitimately asking. Like, when you're like, "And then you guys," I thought you were kind of doing that. - Well, I could, okay, take it, do you want me to? - Well, you know, these guys don't win until you get to 27 and 28, mama, mama. - There you go, that's what I thought it was doing. - Okay, well, now I really did it. I just, I, you know, they've had moments where they've looked like it. You know, I guess last year would have been that moment, right, where they looked good in the first round. - Yeah. - And a big reason they got past the first round was 'cause of the play of awesome Matthews. - Michael, yes. - Yeah, but then the games got bigger boys and they got to another level where they're like, "Oh, this is an even bigger level where we can look worse." I just, I guess maybe it's a build, it's a very slow build, but until they show me, paths, you know, in like a tight game seven, in Boston or in Florida or wherever it is that they can go out there and take a game over, I'm always gonna have worries about it. Like, I do like what they've done. I like the supporting cast around them. I think the Decor leaves a little bit to be desired, but I like that they brought in Edmonton just a big mean man like Labushkin. I like some of the stuff they do back there, but my number one worry is just the stars not being there, what matters. That's what hangs over me. - That's the most important thing, obviously, when your team is top heavy, but like, I don't know, hoping you'd say something like the penalty kill, which has been brutal. It's been awful. - It'd been better if you picked the answer he wanted. - Yeah. - Okay, talk about the penalty kill being awful and allowing a goal against the worst power play team and the National Hockey League and that, yeah, that's, if they face the Bruins again, and go back to the last time they face the Bruins, they allowed seven power play goals in that series. - We're about to find out if you can lead a horse to water. We're about to find it right now. - Drink! - Okay, I am thirsty. I'll have a little sip here by the giant jogger here. - Oh, yeah, that's hard. - I'll say this. - The inner of the mind pudding. - I'll say this, the sneaky number one reason that they've had so much playoff failure is special teams. - Do it, do it, yep. - It's special teams. - Yes. - It's special teams. The propensity of their power play to completely go to sleep in big games, which has a lot to do with my answer and their penalty kill getting eaten alive by the Boston Bruins, like you said, by Tampa's power play, by, you know, I guess the Columbus's power, I don't even really remember that series. - Nah. - That was, that, we, we don't, I just want to interrupt you here. We shouldn't ever talk about that team 'cause that was the worst team. If we have that season play out, at least might not have been in the playoffs. Kyle Dubas was actively trying to trade Tyson very away, he was not at him because he's like, "Oh, we screwed up, this is, this is a bad year." - They lost that series 'cause they just had to get Andreas Johnson in for his first game in a calendar year, that's why. Yeah. - So anyways, the special teams is sneaky, the reason that they've lost a lot of these series. And I, I think that, you know, they did, they tried to address it. They added Labushkin who drives kill penalties, they added Edmondson, they added Connor Doer who's a penalty killer. Like they'd clearly know that it's an issue and that may be another reason they get undone here for sure. But you know, I still worry about the guys who make how much combined here. - A lot. - Close to 30 million bucks combined that shoot it in the net when the, when the games get big. That still worries me more. - Oh, I like how you subtract John Tavares from that now. - Well, I mean, 40 million. - Come on. - Yeah. - I mean, we all know. - We do. - He's fine. He's a fine contributor, but he's not in the, he's not in the reasons you're going to win pile anymore. He's playing third line center. - Yeah. I mean, I, I guess more. Well, expectations are adjusted with him. I can agree there. Okay. Here's where I want to go with you. We could talk about goal tending, but everybody does that. I'm going to, I'm going to put one on a tee for you. You love Kevin Barker. You love when the bad head eats. I'm going to, I'm going to put some middle in and just let you tee off here. Now this is kind of hard because of sliding, you know, ages for the players and one guy's already on another contract. Well, one guy is still feasting on his. You talked about support casts of years past and both these guys were too good to be considered support. But if you could have just undone one move, would it have been the cadre trade and you got cadre for all of that? - Yes. - Or would it have been Zach Hyman paying him and you have him now on this team? - No, it's, it's definitely cadre. - Really, not even a fit? - No, Hyman for sure. Paying, deciding to pay, Andre Kasha, Nick Ritchie and Peter Morazica combined $7 million instead of choosing Zach Hyman. Probably wasn't the best, best asset management if I'm being honest. But I, I, I, cadre to me, just as the center and you picture it down the middle with Matthews, Cadre Tavares, it just, you know, you think of that 2018-2019 where that was like the, we talked about the supporting cast, the best looking one. I love Hyman, I really do. And I think he's having an unbelievable season and a lot of that has to do with him. But also playing with Conor McDavid doesn't hurt. It clearly doesn't. Like he's about to score 50 goals. I love Zach Hyman and I think he's a really important guy. But I think Cadre on this team would be a better fit and he should have been a Leaf for his whole life. - Wow. - It was just such an awful trade. You've nothing, you had nothing to show for. Other than an overtime goal last year to play. Also it was great, we all love that. But Tyson Berry was so bad and you know, Kurt Foote was a whipping boy the entire time here. And it's because he was measured against the trade that they made for a heart and soul guy that got traded because he cared too much. - Well, and what would have happened if they would have made the trade that we, you know, we think maybe they wanted to make of like Cadre for Brody. Like you talk about a guy who's been completely gloves off. Like, you know, he's struggled at the times in the past and we've all been, oh, TJ Brody struggled. We don't need to talk about it. We can move on. He's been such a good soldier. Like he would not have been viewed that way. It wouldn't have been the great free agent signing. Like he would have been held to a way higher standard. It's just, it's so funny how all this stuff works. - How people would have talked about Matt Barkowski too. Boy, who's the other part of that trade? - Yeah, that's right, you're right. Yeah, I mean, and what a Cadre and Hyman have in common as well, like those are two guys that are heart and soul, emotional type players. Like in the mold of a Verbatuzzi Domi thing, right? Like it's like, yeah, yeah, I. - They traded, they traded Nads 'cause he was too passionate. - And he wasn't, well, then it's like, he wasn't, he won't get suspended anywhere else. And then he did. - Yeah, but then they didn't trade him and then he was like basically the Khan Smith winner. So they probably shouldn't have traded him. - Agreed. - Anywho, all right. How do you feel about the goaltending situation? 'Cause like it seems clear that the Leafs would have loved for Joe Wall to take this thing and run with it and I guess there's still time for that to happen, but I'm now off the belief again, like I saw, I saw Ilya Sampson, I'm honestly like in a handshake line where he wasn't just earning respect. Like he won a series where like the other guys were like great series. - That was actually the worst thing of the Kyle Dubas era, just to be clear. It's like all the trades, every contracts, whatever, that's the one that irks me still. - That lives large in my memory and it's gold tending and I understand it and all the gurus, that they say that Joe Wall is, man, positionally, what a sound player. And maybe he's the future of the position, but I gotta say, to me, that's more than Ty goes to the runner, that's like, the incumbent has to be, he has to be clearly beaten and as long as he plays like he's playing right now, I don't see that happening. - Can I be totally honest with you and I know Gunner and I have this shared take, I don't care. - I don't care, I don't care, I don't care. - I don't care. - Cool. - No, no, it's just like-- - No, but I know, this is what I'm-- - I don't know why I'm having a starting goalie because it's like, I don't have to have this stupid conversation every game. It's like, this is having a starting player that starts the games and now I don't have to be like, oh, maybe this guy's better. We have to watch him and be like, oh, is that a bad goal? Maybe this one's a bad goal. I don't know if he should play like, I don't know. - You don't have a single one's the hottest. - You don't have like a confidence level. Like both guys are playing well, you don't have like, oh, I'm gonna feel better about this guy as opposed to that guy. You have no feeling one way or the other. - I had zero confidence in Samsonov. And now I kind of do have confidence in him. I think wall's better goalie, but I think Samsonov's hot right now. So I just saved the puck. When the playoffs start, save the puck, and I don't care if it's a guy wearing 35 or a guy wearing 60. Just one of them do it. Like at this point, you know, I have a bet with bunkers that he said Samsonov's gonna start a game one. I said that wall's gonna start a game one. At this point, it's trending towards him being right. I really don't care who saves it. I just, that's why, that's the one reason I long for the Freddie Anderson days, because it was just like, guess what? Guess who's starting? Freddie Anderson, it's a back-to-back. Well, McElaney's getting in there, or whoever the hell else they had to back him up. It's getting in there. - Enroth, whoever's the backup starts the back-to-backs, and that's it. I just, I hate having this conversation every day. - Yeah. - Can we do it too? - Yeah, no, I don't disagree. Let it, honestly, for all I care, let it be one of the guys who's wearing number one, like the ghost of Johnny Bauer, Turk Road, let them come out and stop my-- - Matt Murray? - Sure. - I don't care. Somebody, stop the puck. I agree with this. All right, before we let you go, McKee. I don't like, maybe you don't have a ton to say on it, but maybe you do. I wanna give you your chance. You've accused me of ducking and hiding from you. You wanna get in a second on Rory and all the drops shenanigans yesterday? - I love this. I gotta tell you, I watched that whole, that eight-minute video where I was like, "Oh my God, this is so great." And I thought Victor came off very rude. I was surprised by that. I thought Jordan, I thought they really teamed up on Rory. I thought they both sort of were like, he's leading the tournament. He, they can kind of feel that he's playing way better than them. The boys got a little bit jealous, boys got a little bit sour at how well he was playing. And they kind of teamed up on him as how I read it. I mean, I've watched that video like four times. To me, I can make the determination that that ball hit above the red line. - Yeah, me too. - And it just, like, I completely trust what Rory says. And I think he was right in making, like, you know, I can say a lot of things about Rory that got her a little above, but I don't think he's like gonna try to cheat. I think he saw it bounce above the red line. We saw that guy go back out there and start whipping fastballs at the ground, which is an incredible piece of content. - Hey, I think he hit above the red line, completely fine with, completely fine with the drop. And good on the PGA tour for tweet, note that eight minute long video because I watched every second with just, I was all in, I loved it. So I definitely have an opinion. - I had to like connect it to like a speaker. I'm like, I need this louder, I want more of this. It's so good. Yeah, I can't do it just on the phone, yeah. - Hey, boys, how about our man, Nikki Taylor. Again, right at the top of a prestige tournament leaderboard has already won this year, clearly won the WM Phoenix Open. He was floating around last week for a bit. You see him again up there this week. How about a Nick Taylor players win this weekend for the fellas? That would make the couch just tremble with me underneath, with me today on Sunday. Can't wait. Thanks for having me on, boys. - Yeah, you do have to leave after you've made Ben that uncomfortable. - I'm thinking about why your couch is trembling beneath you. - Because I'm sitting on it so hard, boys. I'm sitting hard. - Fired up for Nick Taylor. - I think something's firing. - All right. - Now, judging by the smell of this room, my chair's trembling right now. - All right. See you, buddy. - See you, boys. - Sam McKee, real kipper and born. - Soon to be golf show. - Coming back soon. - Very good. - TBD on that. - Time now for the Wakenrike presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly hockey night in Canada in Toronto this weekend against a very good Carolina Hurricanes team that made some sizable additions at the deadline. The Maple Leafs have been very good on the road, less so at home, but they're playing some really good hockey right now. - Brent. - Yeah, they are. And I think the biggest kind of question mark we have heading into this one is who's going to be between the pipes. I think that I actually don't know how much that'll change my opinion. One way or another for the game, but I think it'll be curious to see if the Leafs end up going back to Samsonov. I do like their chances when this team kind of finds its footing. It usually goes on a little bit of a run here. I think they caught their breath after the layoff and the sickness that was whipping through the team. They get a good win in Philly. I imagine they continue that to us Saturday night. - Yeah, we'll see who's favorite in this hockey game. - I will say that if it's the Hurricanes underdogs in this game, riding a three game road winning streak and the Leafs coming home after-- - I think the Leafs will be favored. - I think the Leafs will be favored. - Yeah, they're generally speaking not dogs. - No, they're not. And the Hurricanes and Leafs are pretty close in the standings, but again, the Hurricanes have won three straight on the road. If they're underdogs in this game, I don't hate a little sprinkle on Carolina in Toronto, on hockey night in Canada. And that was the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19+ bet responsibly. When we come back, John Scott, host of the Drop in the Gloves podcast next is the fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
