Ilias and his guest Gia attempt and ultimately fail to stay on topic when talking about Cave Story! Side topics include: Animal Crossing, Hylics, Rain World, Outer Wilds, and the album Switched On Bach.
WBCA Podcasts
Maverick 64
(upbeat music) - Hi, I'm not joking. I just got so scared. I got my foot caught on the wire of my headphones and I almost pulled the whole table with me. (laughing) Sorry. (laughing) That's entirely my bad. Yeah, so welcome to Maverick 64. Sorry, Gia. I forgot to tell you the name of this before I invited you on. - That's fair. - You're listening to WBCALP102.9 FM Boston, Boston's Community Radio Station. There we go. I got it all in one go. All right, so, today we're talking about Cave Story. I have my guest here. Say hi. - Hi. - Hi. - Hi. - Basically the way I got people for the show was I had an idea and then I texted like five people in one day and I thought that should be enough. I think I have like a whole squad of people set up right now. I think I have Robin, I have Andrew, I have Meg at the moment. Kevin's coming back because- - More Toho. - You will. (laughing) I wish. We had an hour for that episode. We didn't talk about like nearly as much Toho as I thought we'd be able to. So what happened was I talked to Kevin and we brought up the game off and Kevin is like, "Oh my God, I love off." And I was like, "We need to do an off episode." Off is like my Bible. If a Bible was an indie video game from France (laughing) with surrealist, not even undertones. That game is just surrealist. - Yeah, I've never played it. I don't think I've seen that game before. - You've never seen off? - I don't think so. - Oh my God. - Like I feel like if you were to show it to me then maybe I'd recognize it, but like, I don't know. - We gotta get you on off. - All right. - Dude, it's like, I don't wanna get too off topic. We're talking about Cave Story. So basically, you can stop me whenever you want because we love to mess around and say all of the things that I have nothing to do with the game. But basically, Cave Story is this, that was my sunglasses. Cave Story is this game that came out in like 2000, was it 2004? - I thought it was like 90 something. - It started development in 1999 because the guy that made it, his name is Daisuke Amaya, right? - Yes. - He goes by Pixel and he got like a computer science degree and he was just like, okay, well, I can make a video game now. 'Cause I think the whole thing has made like C++ or something, right? - Yeah, yeah. - Yeah, so he just like, he came straight out of college and he was just like, well, I don't care about computers. I'm just gonna like spend a whole lot of time working on this video game. And so he burned away like five years, making what is probably the most influential indie game of all time, I think. - I would have done the same thing. - I would have done the same exact thing. - No, me too. I've been trying to do the same thing. The issue is that it's so hard to stick to a game because I keep, like you've, in our major, we literally, like we've had multiple attempted game jams and they just like fall flat 'cause we all really wanna make something and then we're just like, we're completely disorganized and nobody keeps in touch in the way we're supposed to and it just falls flat. - Right. - I need to fix that. I need to fix that at least someday. I've been talking to Robin and Issa, who I hope to have at least, I hope to have on this show, at least before the semester ends, about like starting a game dev team. Do you wanna be in that? - Yes. - Okay. - Yes, oh my God, 'cause like, I like mass art until the game design minor is a thing. Like there needs to be something that's about that 'cause God, it's so, it's so painful having to like critique like game related stuff. And then someone's just like, yeah, I'm not really into video games, but it's like, okay. Then leave. - Yeah, it's so hard. - No, it is, it is. And video games in general just so hard to stick to. That's why this case story was such like a huge deal because there was one guy. And like, that's not unheard of anymore. I'm pretty sure Stardew Valley was one guy. Undertale was almost one guy. That's one thing a lot of people get wrong. Undertale was Toby and Temi. And Temi did a crazy amount of art for that game. And it was really, really nice. I brought it together very nicely. - Right. - But like when Pixel made that game, he made the music. He designed the gameplay. He designed the sprites. He actually made ORG Maker. - Yeah, yeah, I had heard of that. - I've messed with it. It's really fun. - I tried messing with it a long time ago and I just like never like got into like doing anything official with it. - I think what I like about it is that like, when you have a tracker, like a music tracker, it's so weird because you have to almost, you have to punch in the song you want, like you're voting. So it's this really uncomfortable setup where you gotta just punch numbers into a screen and hope it looks vaguely like music. But it's so much easier to just draw rectangles on a screen, man. - I know, right. It's so fun. - I grew up on rectangles on a screen. I can't do with any of this numbers. - No, trackers look complicated. - They do, and the thing is that they're not. Like they're supposed to be as simple as possible, but they look so overwhelming. They look like physics homework. - They look so scary. - They're terrifying. - They're terrifying. - There's all the numbers for them. (laughing) - I've worked with trackers before. I've watched a bunch of YouTube tutorials because I keep having very, very minor phases where I'm like, oh, maybe I should try trackers again. Maybe I should give them a chance. And it's like you have the first number for the note and then the second number for the instrument and the third number for the effect and then the fourth number for the volume and then the second number for the other effect and the fifth number for the third effect. And it's just like, again, it's voting for a song. - Yeah, I try it and I can't. - It's just paperwork. It feels a lot like paperwork. - Right. That's why the org, that's why it makes the org maker so unique. It also kind of reminds me of like, I don't remember if this was Mario paint, but they also had a similar thing where you make music in it. - Oh, don't you put the symbols in the string? - Yeah, yeah. I liked that a lot. - I wish I could say I grew up with that, but I'm under the age of 30. So what I did grew up with was Wario, where D-I-Y, the D-S, did you have that? - I had, I played the one that was on the Wii. - Oh, shoot. - I didn't play the one on the D-S. - The D-S one is so fun because it lets you make your own thing. So like, you can make your own, it was weird. It was weird, 'cause a lot of it wasn't like micro games. Like what Wario wears known for. You could make music, you could draw little comics and there would be little characters like nine volt and Ashley saying like, "Hey, you can do this thing." And they'd tell you like stuff about making comics and games. And it was this really, it was just like this goofy little playground you could have on your D-S. And I remember kids getting mad at me 'cause it was the only D-S game I brought in. If like, I thought we were playing Mario Kart today, I was like, "No, no, I'm publishing my EP." So like, I guess, do you think he made it look the way it did when he was making it for himself? Because whenever I make a tool for myself like that, I make it look very bare bones. And when you download that for your computer, it looks so nice and clean. - I think the thing about his work is that I've always felt like it was for people. I see a lot of his other kind of like interactive game stuff and it's like, wow, he had other people in mind when he was developing these, like definitely. He has this one program is called "Rain." It's not really much of a game, but it's this kind of like graphic with like this cat playing a trumpet. And there's these like little instruments that he's sitting next to. And like these raindrops are like hitting the instruments and these instruments are like playing this like really like cute song. And you can like mess around with the instruments and then add to the song. Like I think that's so cool. - That's so fun. - I know, I love "Rain." That's one of my favorite stuff from Pixel outside of Cave Story. - I didn't know he did that. I only knew about Cave Story and Carol Blaster? - Yeah, Carol Blaster. That's the mobile game. - That's a mobile game? - I think it's on mobile. I looked it up earlier today, it's on mobile. - Oh, okay, okay, okay. The only thing I knew that from was just like people were using it 'cause he's like good game designer. People would bring it up in like game design YouTube videos. They'd be like, oh, yeah, here's an example of a good reward cycle. And I'd see this game and I was like, this man by the Cave Story guy? I didn't even know he was still doing stuff. - Yeah. - The only thing I know him from is that game that came out like the year after I was born. - Right. - And also like fun fact about that, I found out this morning, let me pull this up on my phone 'cause I wrote a list of things frantically this morning when I realized I didn't have a list of stuff to talk about, Cave Story was actually not the first indie game. There was a game in 1962 called "Space War" and it was on one of those old computers that had like a laser display. - I've never heard of that. - I haven't either. I hadn't until like this morning. - What is it called? I'm looking this up. - "Space War." It's just called "Space War." - "Space War." And when was this developed? - 1962. That's before, that's before Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon." That's a, I know that's stupid and nerdy of me, but like that's one of my gauges for like old something is, is that if it came before "Dark Side of the Moon" then it's like way, way back. - Oh, they got this like, they got it on a funny looking television. - Yeah. (laughing) - Exactly. - Can you emulate this? (laughing) (laughing) - Somebody clip this. - Somebody clip this. - No, I saw that. I think the way it worked is like, it was a gravity simulation. So you played as, the way, the what I read, what I skimmed and this could be completely wrong. This is not a fax channel. So I don't have to get everything right. The way it worked was that like, you were two ships flying in orbit around a star and you had to defeat the other ship. - There's a website that remakes it. - Oh, shoot, I mentioned it's like asteroid where you can just like code it on your computer in like five minutes. - Oh my God, I can play on my phone. (laughing) - Let me look this up, let me play space war. Let's just spend this podcast playing space war, space war and meal later. Also, sorry if I seem a little spacey, I'm completely sober. - I'm also sober. (laughing) - I don't get it. What am I supposed to do? I don't think this is built for phones. - I don't think it is either. - But I'm pressing buttons and the funny triangle is doing something. (laughing) - You're winning the space war? - I don't know. It's like this is happening. - This is really not for the phone. This is taking up like 400% of my screen. (laughing) - Oh, okay. Okay, so. - Oh, I'm controlling the rocket thing. (laughing) - Okay, okay, okay, I see, I see. This was on a oscilloscope. This was on an oscilloscope. It's weird that the website emulated like the visual artifacts that the oscilloscope would have. - No, that's so fair, honestly. Wait, I love this. I get it now, I'm moving. (laughing) I'm moving the funny rocket. - Okay, so the way it works is that it's like a top down thing. Like those dig dug arcade games where you had to let you, it was like a table. Okay. (laughing) - When you hit the thing in the middle, you explode. - Yeah, 'cause that's the star. So you fall towards it. Okay, to be fair, to be fair. Like, let me just look at this. This is a gravity simulation in a game from the '60s, which is weird because I forgot that games existed before the '80s. - I didn't know there were games before the '80s. - Yeah, I didn't know. - I'm gonna be so honest. - Yeah, so I couldn't like live report this. This is, you're playing as two ships that are orbiting around a star. - Oh, I'm playing two ships. I was controlling the other one. - Well, yeah, it's like a, it's like a, it looks like one of them looks like a rocket and the other one looks like an actual airplane. But no, this is, oh, it's like a asteroid where you fall around the sides. - Do you just keep? - I think you have to shoot the other one so that it explodes. - Oh, I have to explode the other one before it gets to the. - Before it gets to, before it explodes you. 'Cause the thing in the center is the star. I'm gonna like, live report this. This is like, it's like a gravity simulation where these two little sprites are flying slowly around a dot in the center, which is about as much as computer screens could do back in the '60s, I imagine. So like, that's kind of impressive. I'll give it that. That's pretty impressive that they could have a machine render gravity like that in the '60s. 'Cause that is really hard. - Yeah, this is interesting. Like, this was definitely ahead of its time. - This has nothing to do with cave story. I exploded the rocket. - Did you win? - I think I won. - It's a two-person thing. So if nobody's controlling the other one and it'll just float there. - I'm controlling both of them. - Well, I guess you won. - This is crazy. Okay, all right, I had enough fun. I'm not gonna play this later. - Oh, wow, that was a good game of whatever this is called. I already forgot. You're listening to WPCALP, 102.9 FM Boston, Boston's Community Radio Station. One breath, what else is there? There's one detail I really wanna bring up is that there's this brand, what is it called? Nicholas? - Oh, I've heard things about them. - Yeah, they're not great. Well, my friend Brooke told me and she's crazy for cave story. She loves this game to death. She's beaten the hardest challenges in it, which I have tried the very beginning of and gave up instantly. - I tried getting the best ending. I think I did something to my save and I couldn't get to the last part where you're supposed to go to the underground hell part. So I couldn't do it and I was like, okay. - I'm not doing that to myself. I'm not doing that to myself. I've beaten Celeste. I've beaten Vivi, Vivi, Vivi, Vivi, and I've had enough of really hard rage games. I have dodged the Super Meat Boy Bullet to anyone listening who really wanted me to talk about Super Meat Boy to all of my three viewers at home. - The two Meat Boy fans. I don't plan on it. Well, actually I might. I feel like I should. I feel like that's like, it's on the same level as if you're a musician, you should listen to Abbey Road. 'Cause it's like a big deal. It's like one of the first rage games. Well, no cave story was one of the first rage games if you cared about the good ending. The way it works is that if you played it and you wanted to get the best ending, 'cause the ending is the endings are like whatever, like, oh, the island fell to the ground or you escaped or all this. The nicest ending you can get with the best outcome is you have to do this really, really hard final level. And it's difficulty compared to the rest of the game is much harder by a wide, wide margin. - Yeah, very, very difficult from what I've heard. I've never been able to try it. I don't know what happened. I don't know what I did. I just couldn't. - I don't wanna try it. That's terrifying to me. - I'm curious. I've seen screenshots of it. It looks scary. - I think the hardest game I ever beat that gave me like a worthwhile reward was Rain World. And I'm so scared to do anything worse than Rain World. - I wanna try Rain World so bad. Like the graphics look insane. Like I've seen-- - They're very beautiful. - Yeah, it looks great. Like it looks crazy. - What I liked about it, I've talked to, I've actually, fun fact, I've talked about Rain World in this recording booth before. What I liked about that game is that like, there is some weird, profound lesson to it. So it justified making you pull your eyeballs out because it is really hard. Like you will just walk into a room, a giant bird will eat you fly away and it'll be like, all right, game over. You lose a point that takes forever to gain. Go back to your house and start over. And then you do it again. You get eaten by like the same bird or a lizard. And then the bird picks up the lizard. And it's like this lesson about, oh, there's no, there's no working against nature. You can only work with nature. And you learn that by being eaten by an alligator five times in two minutes. - I like that, I kind of like that concept. - It's really fun, honestly, it's fun, but like not in the sense that it's fun to play. It's like, oh, that's fun. It's fun that that's a thing that exists. But then you play it and it's like so, it's, I don't have a word for it, I really don't. Because I played the normal mode and it was like, it was its own sort of challenging. It was weird. I played it kind of wrong. And my friends that were watching me play it over discord, were saying like, you're going the wrong way. And I was like, oh, my bed. - It's probably one of those games where it's like, it's fun to watch people play it. - Yes, yes, yes, exactly, exactly. So they were watching me play it and they were like, you're doing it wrong. And it's like, what am I doing wrong? They're like, you gotta go up to here. And so I went up to here and to get to there, I had to get eaten by a bunch of alligators. And I was pulling my eyeballs out. And then I got to like this point in the game where it gave you some profound secret. And it was like, okay, this justifies the pain. And then it did the same thing again, where it was like an unbelievably painful trek down to where I needed to go again. And then it justified itself a second time. And it was like, okay, it was worth it. Every single time, it was weird. It was pulling my leg the entire game. And then I played hard mode. Hard mode was different. Hard mode gave me the Tetris effect. I could see it in my eyelids. Have you ever had a game do that to you? - I, Terraria, did that to me. - Oh my gosh. - I got all achievements. And I think I was up at like 2 a.m. When I got the, when I finished the fishing achievement. - What's the fishing achievement? - It's like, you're supposed to do all the like fishing, like quests that the fisherman gives you. There's like a lot of them. And you can only do like one a day, I think. But it takes such a long time to do. 'Cause you can only do like one in-game day, I think. I don't know, this was a while ago. But I finished it at like 2 a.m. - Oh my God. I sat in bed and I closed my eyes and all I see is Terraria. (laughs) So freaking awful. It did the same thing with Katamari. Katamari was another game that I also have all achievements for. And to 100% Katamari, you have to roll every single item in the game. - You're dedicated. - Yes, I am. And the very last item that I had was this like cute little like pink cow that had like hearts all over it. This cow was so difficult to get. And like, I think this was like the first time I'd ever like gone like physically angry at a game. Like I got so angry, I think I broke my controller and I had to take it apart to repair it. Like that's how like annoying getting that last cow was. That was very traumatic for me. - My first experience with that was the game VVVVVV or V6 if you don't want to sound stupid. And it was like, have you seen that game? - I've seen it, I've seen it. - Yeah, yeah. So that was like one of the classic rage games. It was up there with Super Meat Boy. And I remember playing that in 2013, when I was 10 years old on like my dad's dinky Mac laptop. And I was losing my mind. That was like my foot. That was the first and I think only example I have a serious game rage. I think after that, I was afraid of getting mad at games. So I only played games that did not make me angry. So if I play something like Call of Duty or League of Legends, I don't think I'd survive. - Yeah, I do the same thing now. Like I think controllers are so expensive nowadays. I just can't, I can't afford to crash out like that anymore. - I don't have the money to get this angry. - Exactly. - I'm surprised you were able to go in and fix it manually 'cause I tried doing that once and it just killed the whole controller. - It was an easy fix like honestly. And I've taken, it was a PlayStation like DualShock 3 controller. - I have no idea what that means. - It was, it's like the PS3 controllers. - Oh, does that mean like it has a certain vibration in it? - I honestly, I don't know why they call it that. That's just the name of it. I honestly don't know, but I had taken them apart before for like art things, stupid art things. But I'd taken them apart so I knew what to do. And it's like, it wasn't like broken broken. I think like the joystick was just like stuck to the left a little bit. And I had to like, you know, re-position it. So it wasn't stuck anymore. - My joysticks on my controller that I once had and I've been trying to, I've been waiting for the moment where I have the money to get another controller because a lot of games are annoying to play without them. - Right. Like, I don't know, it wasn't, this will be a gross description. So I apologize. But it was like, it was like there was something in the joystick that kind of gunked it up. (laughs) - Okay. - And I was saying that in like an online chat room I was in, where I was playing this game, I think I was playing Rivals of Aether. And I was like, I'm sorry, my joystick is like, it's like the mechanism is sticky. And they're like, were you eating at your controller? I was like, yeah. So it turns out it was carbohydrates that messed with my controller and then I opened it and I broke it even more. - Oh my God. - So I just had this sprawl of screws and buttons and plastic pieces all over my desk. And my dad was like, are you doing a good job? And I was like, nope, nope, this is, I can't, this is gone. This is completely, this is totaled. - Yeah, no, I did that to like one of those like, those like robot dog toys. - The ones with like the six dots on the front? - Yeah, I had one, I have one of those. And I think my roommate, my old roommate's cat, I think at least one of my other roommates told me it was this roommate's cat that had like broke it. I wasn't there when it broke. And I guess one of the ears came off and I was trying to repair it and repairing those things and trying to take them apart is like so difficult. - I just, I think I just broke it. I made it worse, I just made it worse. Now I have it like sitting in like a grocery bag just rotting, I've never, I never put it back together. - I mean, if you don't plan on fixing it completely, you could sell it on eBay for like $1. - What am I gonna do with a dollar, bro? - That's like one Arizona, that ain't gonna work for you. (laughing) It's like a point, didn't think about that. I have this, this summer, okay, this is completely off topic of video games that I don't care. This summer, I was like so desperate for money 'cause no one would hire me. And it felt personal. It was like, why was, it's because I'm stupid. - The job market is terrible right now. - The job market was harsh. - It was terrible. - But like in a desperate attempt at like making money, I buy, I find this pack of 65 CDs for $20. And I was like, oh, I could sell these back for more than that. And so I buy them. And then I'm just too down in the dumps to do anything about it. And so now I just have 65 CDs of a genre I don't really care about. - What is genre? - Well, I think it's like, I always, I don't care about it. It's like classical. - Oh. - But it's just like a bunch of Bach stuff that I've already heard and could listen to on YouTube, which I know doesn't ruin the experience of physical media, but Bach is dead. So it's not like I'm supporting the artist. - I had collect CDs. Like I love physical media so much. And I love like media preservation. But like, I just, I don't care about classical music. So, you know what, you do you. - I think for classical music, my exceptions are Bach and Chopin. Bach, because this stuff is like musical exercises. So I can imagine myself like doing it to exercise my fingers and my guitar. And Chopin, because this stuff is like very up and down. Like, did it, did it, did it, did it. It's like a romantic era where everything was supposed to be like swoonie. - I don't know. I think classical music is funny to me. Like I think the internet has ruined classical music for me. (laughing) - I was listening to, I hope this isn't too profan. I was listening to switch, do you know what switched on Bach? - No. - This is actually vaguely related to video games because this was the beginning of digital music, which was important to video game development because it led to YMO and YMO is super influential. But Wendy Carlos released switched on Bach, which was an example demonstrating that the Moog synthesizers could make stuff. And it's like these tunes that should be played on European harpsichords, being played in these bouncy goofy tones. And it's the funniest thing in the world if you imagine someone's working to it. (laughing) It's just like, (laughing) hold on, you know what? I'm gonna cut out the silence between me and when this plays. But like, I'm gonna put on switched on Bach right now. 'Cause we have the CD with us right here. - Oh, no. - Listen to this. Stick this in your pipe and smoke it. (upbeat music) (laughing) - Sorry, this is so funny to me. (laughing) - It's a whole album of it. - And you put that torquing image in my face. (laughing) - We should probably talk about Cave Story. - Okay, okay, Cave Story. - Cave Story, Cave Story, I've seen a written, oh yeah, so we started talking about Nicholas and then did not say anything about it. Basically, what happened was Cave Story Plus was made for things like the Wii, the Wii U, the Switch, I think the DS2, right? - Yes. - And it was sold to this publisher named Nicholas and it spelled N-I-C-A-L-I-S. So word of warning, if you wanna buy anything like this, like the Cave Story Plus stuff, don't. Because they screwed him out of a lot of money. - Yeah, you can just go ahead and get the freeware version. - That's a price. You can get the-- - Freeware. (laughing) - Is aware. (laughing) I can't say freeware. - You might be able to. We'll find out, if there were just three bleeps then we'll find out what the viewer will know for certain in post. Yeah, you can buy the freeware one. I think that's fine, right? - I don't know, 'cause that's like saying like software. - I think you're right, 'cause we can say, I think it's on the same level as we can say ask, but we can't call anybody one. - Yeah. - Yeah, no, it's like a classic example of game publishers being scummy and just completely steel. I mean, this is like, story is all this time. Some guy makes art, rich person shows up and says, "Hey, I wanna help you make money." And then they just yank it entirely. - Yeah. - It was, it's very weird. And the weirdest part about it is that with Cave Story Plus, plus is that they double the resolution of all the sprites. So they all look a little more weirdly realistic. And the music is remixed so that it's not old sounding, like a retro video game. - Yeah, they made it more like modern sounding. Like my first introduction to this game was actually on the Wii, and I remember the music being like different, a lot less like Chip 2D. - It's weird. I don't know why they do that. - It was weird. I thought it was weird. - It was really weird. It also, like the music doesn't sound right when you do that. - Like it was made for the org tracker, the org maker. - I wouldn't call that a tracker. I'd call it a maker. - Oh, that's right. It's the maker. It's not the tracker 'cause we just talked about that. - Yeah. - You know, it's just like, it feels contrived. It felt like how like a lot of modern Pokemon music sounded when it didn't have the time to get like processed properly. So it was just weird and not roomy enough. - Yeah. I like the original soundtrack a lot. - It's so good. - It's really good. Very, very emotional soundtrack when you progress through the game, I think. - It is weirdly enough for a game with like a pretty loose story idea. - Yeah. - Let me see, what else is there? We talked about space war. We talked about Nicholas. We talked about, oh, this will bring us into plenty of really healthy side tracks. So when interviewed about this game, he said, oh, it was inspired by games I played as a kid like Metroid and Castlevania, which I'm pretty sure was the start of the people regularly using the term Metroidvania. The only other example of that type of game I can think of is Hollow Knight. - Right. - Can you think of anything other than Hollow Knight and Cave Story? I feel like there has to be more, right? - I'll be so honest with you, no. - Shovel Knight. - Shovel Knight. - I think Shovel Knight counts, right? - I think. - I'm not a video game text on a mist, so I don't know my way around this nomenclature. - Bro, I just play the games. I don't know. (laughing) - That's exactly what I feel. - No, like, it makes sense. If you play the game, it plays exactly like those two, Metroid and Castlevania, where you just like show up and there's an assumed backstory and you're just shooting at things. - Right. - Because the way Cave Story plays is you start out as this little robot named, quote, and as the plot goes on, it's like, oh, he has amnesia and he doesn't know what he's doing and like why he's there and why he's a robot and what the robot was for and all this. And you can completely ignore that, which in my opinion makes a good game. Like Portal 2 does that. You do not need to follow a story of Portal at all because it's just fun. And so like, you're left with this really, really, really enjoyable and replayable experience. That's the thing about Cave Story is that you can just go back and play it as much as you want. - Yeah. - And a lot of games rely on story too hard and it makes it hard to re-experience it. Meanwhile, Cave Story, you can just like go back and be like, I'm just gonna play it again. And it's like almost just as fun. - Yeah, I like going back and just replaying the game again. Not have to worry about like finishing it. The last time I beat it was like during the pandemic. - Oh, shoot. - So, and I've replayed it again since, but I've never got around to like finishing it again. 'Cause getting the good ending is really annoying. - And if I wanted to get anything I haven't already experienced, it would have to be that. - Yeah. - And I'm not ready. It's so terrifying, it's weird. Like that kind of thing scares me more than going on stage and talking. And I have no idea why because it's hidden entirely inside my computer, which I have the entire power to throw within a leg if I wanted to. - Right. - Wait, I gotta call it the stage, the station. You're listening to WBCILP 102.9 FM Boston, Boston's community radio station. - Awesome. - I was gonna say some (beep) I just swore. Oops. Oh, you know what, K3 was, you brought up the pandemic. That's what I was gonna say. The pandemic was like prime video game time for me. - It was prime video game time for everybody. - It was, it really was. - It really was. - I mean, what else were you gonna do? - Like that's when normal people found out what animal crossing was. - That was, excuse me, excuse my hot take. That was tragic. What happened to animal crossing. - I hate that so much, bro. Like that was one of my favorite games. Like I used to play New Leaf like every day. - Me too. - And the New Horizons came out and it was good for like a while. - Yep. - And then the internet happened. And then the whole thing with Raymond happened. - Oh, good luck. - I have Raymond on my island. - Raymond was actually my first hand sight villager. My first reaction to Raymond was way different compared to everyone else's. - I never understood the, 'cause it felt like it felt, it felt like it's just snowballed out of nowhere. - It came out of nowhere. - It was just like, oh, this guy kind of looks funny. And then everybody's like, I'm gonna choose this to laugh at for the next 18 months. And everyone's gonna know. It was so ridiculous, bro. And then the whole like, selling villagers thing happened. And Nuka's on and it was like, oh my God, this was not a thing when I was, when New Leaf happened. - The issue for me with New Horizons was that, it's like, you know when Jerry Seinfeld will say something like, don't listen to the audience 'cause they're not in show business. - Right. - That's what New Horizons felt like, like what the kind of mistake it was? Because a lot of people were asking for, after New Leaf, it felt like a lot of people are getting greedy and saying like, I want this kind of customization and this thing to happen and this thing to happen. And the worst possible outcome happened was that Nintendo completely listened to us. And we got that. And the monkey's paw curled and in exchange for that, we had to make the villagers dumber. - Yeah, I hate that, like, I love the customization stuff. - Me too. - Like, I love that a lot, but I don't find enjoyment in talking to the villagers anymore, like. - It's called Animal Crossing, not couch crossing. - Exactly, bro. Like they feel more like NPCs in the New York game. - That's why I really like the original. Have you ever played the original? - I've played the original, yes. - I kind of wish I brought my way back 'cause it's on my way and I really wanna play it. - I would emulate it a lot. And then I played it on my Wii for a while. I also played City Folk, which was on the Wii. - It was the only one I haven't played. - The only one I haven't played is Wild World, which is just like, I think it's just City Folk on the DS, I feel like. - Kind of, I'd say it's the other way around because what happened was you had the first three and then people got bored of it. - Right. - And that's why New Leaf, you were the mayor rather than just a villager. - Yeah. - And then New Horizons, I can't even talk about that one. Like, I guess you were the owner of a private island. - Island representative? - Ambassador, the ambassador. New Horizons was such a weird case. - It was very weird. - I don't, how does that happen? 'Cause when you look, well, I think what happened was that it sold very well. It just didn't. - Oh my God. - I have to bleep that out. That was profanity. I burped. - How profanity. - What happened with a lot of games, especially during the pandemic, was that they sold so well, but they did not play well. I think something went wrong. Someone's wires got crossed and video games started getting really good at selling very well without playing well. If you watched the last episode, you will know that I'm completely ripping off what Kevin said. Kevin said they sell well, but they don't play well. Which is exactly, I can't think of a better way to say it. Like games like, I think Cyberpunk is a great example. - Yeah, that was a, I remember I was friends with somebody back then before Cyberpunk came out, it came out, and they were like, "Oh yeah, Cyberpunk's definitely gonna get game of the year." - And then it came out. - And I'm like, "All right, okay." - What year was that? - That was like, I can't remember, when did Cyberpunk come out? - Let me Google it. If this was 2019, I'm gonna have a game that I really think should've won over it. But the issue is that for that to happen, you need to talk about it. - This was like, I think it might've been early 2020. - Let's see, when did Cyberpunk 2020 come out? 2027, 2077, December 10th, 2020. Okay, so yeah, that's a bit late to get game of the year, I think, right? - Yeah, yeah. - But like, were you gonna say? - No, no, no, no, no, nevermind. Nevermind, nevermind. - What I was gonna say was a lot of people are saying in 2019 that Outer Wild should've gotten game of the year. And the issue is that if you wanted that to happen, you would have to explain what's good about the game. And if you know about that game, the issue is that when you talk about it, you spoil the puzzles because the puzzles in the lore go hand in hand is like the same thing because you're basically like an archeologist. So what scares me about that game getting game of the year is that if you did that, people would have to talk about it. And so the puzzle would be ruined. And so it stands in this weird, really weird state where you can't explain it, you just have to make sure people trust you that it's good, which isn't new. Going in blind games isn't new. This is like a very, very sensitive case. Like people say it with complete apprehension, like please for the love of God, do not Google anything about this game if you plan on playing it. - I've never heard of this game. Is that why I've never heard of this game? Just people just don't wanna talk about it. - Outer Wild, do you haven't heard of it? - No, I've never, I've never heard of it. - Oh my God. - It's like, I mean you can Google image it probably doesn't spoil anything too much, but like it'll show you what it is. It's like this game that simulates a little solar system for about 22 minutes before it starts over. And it's like a time loop game. - Oh, oh, oh wow. - Yeah, and the way you progress is by researching like the archeological sites around the solar system and learning more stuff. And the way it works is that there's no actual progression, you're just learning stuff. So the more you know, the more things you can do because the whole game starts over every 22 minutes. It's really good. - It looks interesting. - It's really good. It's really good. It's on the same, if you play this game, you'll meet a lot of people who play Rain World. There's some weird overlap between the people who play those games. And I will say why after you play them because that would spoil it. - Okay, fair enough. - All right. - Again, it's another thing where you just gotta be like, I can't tell you anything. You just gotta play it. It's like really smart too, the way they do it. I wanna say too much. I wanna have an episode about Outer Wilds. But the way they do it is like when you learn about something that these ancient people did, you learn about something scientific that they researched. - All right, I'll look into this. What are you talking about before that? - We got too off track. - I don't know. We went like to like Animal Crossing. - We should've put that, we should've placed the breadcrumbs. Is it? Oh, the block is still playing. It was playing this whole time. Let's see what it sounds like. (upbeat music) - Oh my God. - Beautiful. - Very twerkable. - Are you drinking when I said that? (laughing) - I just watched Geochoke on water. (laughing) - It's not twerkable. - You don't knock it till you try it. - I'm not, no, not happening. - That's what I did is when I was, I had a CD of it and I was playing at my house and I just like, I started doing that stupid twerk I do where I just moved my spine. (laughing) And the exact same thing happened to my roommate, Andrew, where he was drinking something and he just spat it back into the cup. (laughing) Works every time. - I don't like that I can picture that. - I can do it right now. - No please. (laughing) - You've really seen me do it like in posing, in where our major is. I have to give an exposition for that every time I say it 'cause I don't want, I don't want, or millions of viewers at home to be out of the loop. - I don't know. I don't look at people during class. (laughing) - I'll do, I'll be sure to do it during announcements. I'm like, please, everybody, eyes on me. I have something to share with the class. - Oh, god. - Owen, turn on switched on vodka. Animal crossing. - Animal crossing. (laughing) To be fair, there's only so much you could say about a video game. So it's like, we already surpassed the, the moment we surpassed 30 minutes, it's like, well, this is an hour long show, oh well. - All right. - So like, let's talk about Animal Crossing because that's not an indie game, so I'll never make an episode about it. I can't find my DS. - I sold mine. - Why'd you sell it? - I don't, I wasn't using it. I just like straight up, like I was not using it. I was using my PSP more than, than my DS. Didn't you hack your PSP so it could play Nintendo games? - Yeah, yeah, I can play Pokemon Emerald on it. - That's like literally, that is the first conversation I ever had with you, was I saw that over your shoulder and I was like, there's something wrong with this image that you're playing an Nintendo game on a PlayStation device. It was really confusing. I was like, how did you do that? You're just like, I'm just like that. - I'm just like that. I'm literally just like that. (laughing) - That was scary to see someone have that sort of power over their tools. No, 'cause like, I've been, I've been experiencing for the last year like, on Nintendo 3DS withdrawal because I lost it and I have no idea when I lost it. I just know that there's a point where I couldn't find it anymore and I have no idea where it went. And so I've been like itching to play Mario Kart 7 and Animal Crossing New Leaf and Mario and Luigi Dream Team which is a game that's quite slept on and I'm just like, I'll go home and I'll just stare at the games I have on my shelf and I'll be like, one day, one day I'll go back. - I feel like I get those withdrawals too. I think before I sold my DS, I would have like those like, oh my God, I really need to play this game. Like Kingdom Hearts, I really, like on the DS, really wanted to play that. - They have that for the DS? - Yeah. - The 358 days was on the DS and then they did like HD remakes of the cutscenes instead of just remaking the whole game which I think is really stupid. But yeah, that was one of my favorite games that I grew up on the DS and I'd be like, oh my God, I need to play this game right now and then I would play it and then immediately get bored of it like two minutes later. - That's exactly how I feel. I've had that happen to me countless times and it's to the point where if I wanna do something really badly, I get so angry because I've already Pavlov myself into understanding that if I wanna do something this bad, it cannot last. It might, but I don't trust it too because I'll get like, I'll think to myself, oh, I really wanna play Chikori which is a lesser known game that actually came out pretty recently and I'd be like, oh, I wanna complete this story. I wanna do this whole thing and I played like one chapter of it and then put it down and never touch it again and I do that intermittently for the next five years. - Right, yeah, I do that all the time. Like, I'd be like, I really wanna play this game and then I don't end up playing it. - I did that a lot during the pandemic when I didn't wanna do anything. I was just like, think to myself, maybe this game will be fun and I played it and then it was but I just couldn't dedicate myself to it. So I just dropped it. I was so lucky I was able to finish Cave Story. It was hanging on by a thread. Pandemic was like a really good time for goofy games. - Yeah, I think that's when I discovered a lot of like, older like, I think that was like definitely my discovery like of the Y2K video game era. Like, that's when I hacked my PlayStation 3 so I could play PlayStation 2 games on it. I have a super slow model, which isn't backwards compatible with PS2 games, but if you jailbreak it and hack it enough, you can get PS2 games to run on there. I think that was definitely like around that time, I was playing a lot of like PS2 games, like Space Channel 5, Apascape, which is definitely like my fixation at the moment, this Apascape. - Wait, tell me about that one 'cause I keep hearing about Apascape and I don't understand what it is. - So the whole premise of the game is that you got these like monkeys running around. And you're supposed to catch them with like a nut. And then there's one like big like evil monkeys. My name is like Skeptor, I think. And I don't really pay attention to the plot, I just like catching the monkeys. I like helping the mechanic. But he's like the big boss monkey, he like controls all the monkeys and makes them all run around. It's a silly game and like the composer has like, like outside of like video game music is a really good musician. - Oh, that's always the best. - Yeah, I love their music a lot. They do a lot of like drum and bass, like jungle type type stuff. I was about to swear right there. - Have you ever played highlights? - I've heard of it and I've seen, I've seen the art for it a lot and I think it's really funny looking but I've never like played it. - I think it's, I would recommend it. I'm not gonna demand anybody plays it but I would recommend it 'cause it's really, it's like trippy. I've heard people just, I've heard people describe it as like if 70s psychedelia was a video game because it's kind of on that level. And on that note, the guy that made the music for the second game, not the first one. 'Cause the first one was just made by the guy that coded it, the, for the second game he hired an official musician. And so for the second game you have this really, really good guitar soundtrack that sounds like 70s psychedelia. It's really, really good. - Hold on, actually, you know what? Again, I'm gonna cut out this silence that comes between me and right now and me picking up a saw. You get the idea. - What's good about this is that I can just cut it out later in post 'cause I have that power. All right, here we go. (upbeat music) - Oh. - I know, right? - Okay. - This is like the rude buster of this game. Like it's the song that you hear the most in battles and it's so good. - I love a good rude buster. - I'm getting chills. - Yeah. - None, none, too much. And you just save Hilix for another episode. Hilix is too much fun. I can't talk about, that's the thing is I can't talk about other stuff too much. Where are we at? 50, oh. (upbeat music) - We literally end right now. - Awesome. - That was a good episode. - Yay. - Gee, do you wanna plug your internet stuff? - Oh, yeah. My Instagram, Nox station. You check out my website. Nox station.neocities.org. I think that's it. I'm Nox station on everything. This is basically what I'm trying to say. - Hell of viewers, how it's spelled. - K-N-O-X and station. So like playstation. But you replace the play with Nox. It's so cool. - That's literally exactly what I assumed it was. - Yeah, pretty much. - 'Cause I see you were in like the PlayStation and like the Sega logo and everything. (laughs) I literally, the first day I saw you at Simon, I saw you wearing the parappa hat. I was like, I know it's up. I know what's going on here. - I forgot, I used to wear that hat a lot. - You don't wear it anymore? - I wear it on occasion. I just, I feel like I'm bald when I wear it. I don't know why. - I feel like I'm without a hat. If I'm not wearing a hat or if I don't have my hair like tied back in a weird way, it feels wrong. It feels like I'm too exposed to the world. - You'll never see me without a hat. Except for right now. - Yeah, I know, I've seen you take off a hat and it's like the Clark Kent effect where you're a different person. - Everyone says that. - Well yeah, 'cause I saw you across the room one time and you took your hat off and I was like, wait a minute, wait a minute. I think I know that person. Oh, it's that one 'cause then you put your hat on. - Yeah, it's the same way when I like tie my hair. I never wear my hair up in public 'cause I feel like I look weird when I do. - I hate tying my hair up because I have sideburns and I don't like people knowing that I have sideburns. - I just have like a really round and chubby face and like my hair tends to like hide most of that. - So that is well, that is like, look. - Yeah, I'm the same exact way. I hate it, I hate it so much. - My headphones fell off. All right, I'm gonna fade us out with Cave Story Music. Goodbye everyone. - Half of that was not Cave Story. (laughing) - Whatever, goodbye. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) You