[Music] Back in the Kintech Studio, it's Dan Reicho and Sat-T-R-Shaw. Knock Central is for Enzan Pacific Bank, who was Premier Chrysler, Dodd-Ran and Jeep Superstore on 2nd Avenue between Canby and Maine, or at Enzan Pacific Chrysler.C.A. Let's go to the Dispatch Plumbing, heating and air conditioning hotline. The first call, the only call it is Don Taylor, the legend himself joining us, as he does every single Monday, Donnie and Dolly Tendonoon on Czech TV. Donnie, the Canucks, going through, I guess, a late season slump if we were to call it that. I mean, they were just coming off a four-game win streak, but then the way they collapsed against Colorado and then Saturday nights, no show against Washington. I still do feel like it's maybe more of an overreaction that they feel like they're in a mid-season or late-season slump here. Which, connection and connection tends to do. The strange part of this is that all through February, and I think this was legitimate. Nobody really pushed back against this. The Canucks talked a lot. Rick talked and talked a lot about the lack of practice and just being talked and about fatigue. And I think the strange part is that you have these last two games with three days between games before Colorado and two. I think I've got that right. Two days between games before they played Washington. So plenty of rest, relatively speaking, and practice time as well, and they were both thinkers. And it's a stinker when you blow up three. I don't care who you're playing. How good the team is. You blow a late-second period lead at home. I guess a very good team, but you're supposed to be in their league. And then, in comes Washington on a Saturday night when you should be energized, hiking in Canada and all of that. Oh, Vechkin is on the ice. That's a big deal for a lot of players. They're 21, at the time, 21 points behind you in the standings. They're desperate, and we're talking at the end of the game called it a low event, because it was. They didn't make the Canucks in barely Washington made it. They didn't make anything happen. It's just a real strange, dare I say, typical Canucks, because everyone just expects the worst. Just a strange two games. Two games isn't much, but it's just the way things unfolded that I think as people worried. And guys, let's be honest here. This goes back to the All-Star break, when they were riding so high, and they just haven't -- the four-game win streak aside, especially with the Winnipeg game, that was impressive, but they just haven't seen the same. And I think a lot of people are wondering what's wrong. Is it Dakota Joshua? Certainly, they missed Thatcher-Debkall. Although Casey Desbitt has been just fine. Nobody's really sure. I think a big part of it is the play of Elias Peterson since the All-Star break has been as uneven as we've seen at any point this season. In Queen Hughes, we were talking about a couple weeks ago that he was struggling. Now he's been a lot better recently. I don't know if anybody was great last night with the other night, but overall, I think his game's kind of coming back into form, but at the same time, Peterson's game clearly is lagging behind. The coach mentions he's struggling too. He himself, Peterson, has said that his game is in where it needs to be. How much of a concern do you think Peterson struggles right now should be heading into the postseason? How much of a concern? 11.6 million. That's how much. I know your, you know, Grady Sash made the point that he isn't making that till next year. That doesn't matter. That's what I'm thinking that everybody's talking about. I did think he was pretty good. And I know I'm in the minority minute point on the show today. I thought it was good when they were trying to come back in the third period. Now, the bar was set low versus everybody else on the Canucks, but I thought at least the effort was there. I noticed that, you know, working his butt off trying to do something, but it's just not, hey, this is what happens. 11.6 billion. You get that a season. The expectations are going to be high. You know, you're not supposed to, you're not supposed to take a month off. And I think that has a lot of people concerned. And I think, guys, too, another thing that plays into this, especially in the last week, is that Colorado falls down three nothing. And I know he's making a mil eight, pardon me. Once Patterson's new contract kicks in, he'll be making just, you know, a million dollars more than Patterson. But you saw Colorado's franchise player take that game, take the bull by the horns. And I think the criticism has ramped up on Patterson after that game, because a lot of people looked at that and said, wow, that's what a guy making that kind of money should be doing. That's what a franchise player should be doing. He's just so dominant and so good, different style of player. But when you're making that kind of money, those comparisons are going to happen. So I think he's too good for this to continue. I'm not talking about Elias Patterson, but I kind of get, I definitely get where people are coming from. The expectation changes once you get the big payday, right? And unless there is some kind of a championship at the end of this road for Elias Patterson, there's always going to be some detractors. But I think it's a little bit of a common theme amongst some Canadian markets and certainly here in Vancouver, where sometimes the star players, they do take a little bit of extra flack maybe than is warranted, right? We saw it with Loongo at times. We saw it with the sedines and how the 2011 Cup final went. It's certainly a theme that I've picked up on here, Donnie. Yeah, and then we'll look across the rock using Jonathan Hubertow. Yeah, that hurts the whispers of what those comparisons being made. It's frightening. It's frightening for the conduction and for their fan base. No question about it. Are Canadians harder on their star players? Yeah, sure. And guys like McDavid, a dry saddle are living up to it. And he could argue too, even though that has been a lot of team success. You know, the star players in Toronto, you noticed them out there. That hasn't been the case so far with Elias Patterson after this contract was signed. So, yeah, Canadians are definitely hard on their star players. But if you're a professional athlete, if you're worth, you know, your salt, you live up to those -- you thrive on that. You compete. You want those expectations. You want people to notice you and you want that pressure. That's what the great athletes do. And honestly, the fact that he committed eight years tells me he's not worried about that, right? And I'm not saying you're saying that he's worried about it. But I think in terms of, you know, how we view it, can he handle being in a Canadian market? Well, if it was that difficult for him, I don't think he would have re-upped here for eight years. And this is going to be a bit of a cop-out. But I think part of the issue here too, Donnie, is we haven't really seen this group in any real playoff, right? We saw him in the bubble year, of course, but that was such a different animal than anything we're usually accustomed to during normal playoff here. So I don't think anybody really knows how any of these players are truly going to handle being in the postseason. So it's a lot of projection, right? And I think we can look at it and say, well, Patterson's struggling now at times looks like he can't stay on his feet. He falls over a lot. Ergo, he's soft. He won't be able to play in the postseason. So I think a lot of those kind of conclusions are being come to at this moment. But none of us really know anything about this team truly until they make the postseason. And until then, I guess we're just going to have to project things, don't we? Yeah. What a big question, Mark. I do remember 2020, Chad, I'm with you too. Like, you know, it's so hard to judge 2020 and this is how strange that situation was. And all the time they had off before they resumed playing August and nobody in the stands. Therefore, you can argue less pressure. So it really is hard to look at that and say, hey, that's the player he is. But the one thing I do remember from that postseason as a somewhat contradict myself here is that he was pretty physical in that postseason. Maybe not so much he was physical, but that the physicality, it ramped up there. Maybe not what it would be like with a crowd, but it was definitely ramped up. It was definitely there. And he handled it really, really well. So, you know, and look, it's been a while now, right, four years. But, and it's a different regime. These guys brought the bird and they'll be wearing around then. But I'm sure they were aware of what was happening. But it's a risk. You know what, guys, even if he had a, you know, even if he had a, even if he has a good postseason, that doesn't mean he's going to continue for eight years. It's still a risk. And that's, you know, risk is, I think, what you have to take as somebody who is running a Canadian market. Like if you want to keep your star players, you got to pay them. You got to give them term in order for them to stick around and make up for the differences that you, for the advantage is you get it in the market. So, even if he had a good playoff this time around, it still might be, it still might be risky. I just have a feeling he's going to be okay. And that's not enough for a lot of people, but I just have a feeling. Yeah. And, you know, it's been interesting, the commentary of the head coach on this. You know, he hasn't shied away from the very obvious fact that that Patterson has been struggling recently. And he's been open enough to talk about it, which usually coaches aren't necessarily with the media. And we do appreciate that of Rick Talkin. And one of the things about this stretch as much as maybe I'm, or we're not worried about how the Canucks have played overall. Donnie, it feels as though Rick Talkin really hasn't liked what he's seen of late from his club. And he really wants to make sure that they get going again well before the playoffs actually begin. How do you think he's handled this team here in the last stretch of the season? Well, one thing about him, if I'm a Canucks fan, I'm worried about him saying the same things after every game. And, you know, we're talking about mental toughness. And, you know, that icing call the other day, it happened. Deal with it. You know, don't let a goal get scored against you afterwards. You know, like, move on and be tougher than that. The other thing he keeps, I don't know if you noticed this. Guys, there are a lot of things that he keeps repeating. And just, you know, being mentally tough, beating pressure with pressure, learning lessons. We hear that a lot. But you know what he's talked a lot about lately? That is something that goes back to minor hockey. They haven't been hitting the net with their shots. And he talked yesterday after practice about how that can be attributed to just not thinking enough. Maybe even laziness. Like, you know, move your feet a bit, get a better angle when you're shooting. Don't just fire the puck. You know, and it just sounds like such a simple thing, but maybe they get started, you know, being more aware of just putting the puck on net, not necessarily for, you know, to beat the goalie. But maybe to get a rebound, maybe things change that way. But that's just such a little minor hockey league thing that is easily correct. I think easily correctable, but he just keeps bringing it up. And I, you know, I wonder how much it's bothering him. And maybe it isn't easily correctable, but it sounds like it sounds like it is. Having said that, man, guys, the other day, Lindholm, I thought he had, you know, it was like a split second. But it looked like he had it open net. Yeah. Pass back or pass to the side. I didn't, I didn't get all that. Man, I would have rather him shoot wide there, at least try to shoot at versus pass. So I don't, it's, it's a mystery. But that thing about missing, missing your shots seems to be pretty correctable. Yeah. I'm, I'm with you on that. And it seems like at times this team can get a bit too fine with how they try to, you know, score their goals and everything. I mean, they had 70 shot attempts against Washington and they still have fewer shots on gold than Washington did. And they attempted 25 more shots on goal. It's pretty remarkable. It's pretty remarkable, right? But, you know, the other thing about the team, and this is kind of where as much as, you know, yes, there's some concerns about how they've played and all that. But like even the game against Washington, even the game against Colorado outside of a few bad moments, like defensively, they don't give up a ton. Like it has really been low event hockey. So as much as yes, they're not playing to their staples, I think they've come far enough where at least they know their system and played well enough that even when they look bad, they're still not horrible defensively. And I think that's a pretty important factor, especially when you do get into the postseason to be able to have that defensive backbone. Yeah. And, you know, but you've got to match that with something up at the other end. For sure. I just mentioned his name and, you know, having Lynn Holmes as a third-line center just must be just eating away at them right now. And, you know, the Rick Talk had to go back to him playing with Pederson and Hoagler and I think he had a little bit of success with. I mean, it just must eat away at him. And, like, we were surprised today on the show. I don't know how you guys felt that, you know, helped me out here. But he had Garlin moving up with, did he not today at practice? Yeah. So, today, so Pederson was with Hoaglander and Garlin and Lafferty McKayev were with Lynn Holmes, which makes you kind of wonder if you're trying those things. Wait, why not just try Lynn Holmes with Pederson again? There you go. That's sort of what that was. And that's nothing against Garlin. I think it's a great move in that he deserves it. Right? But, you know, your initial plan couldn't have been Lynn Holmes as a third-line center with those guys. And it's nothing against anybody. But that's, you know, you talk about creating offense, getting shots on that. That was supposed to be the guy. And the thing that I find most surprising about this is that he's in a contract here, guys. Yeah. Like, how much money is he costing himself? I just don't notice him out there. You know, I'm sure he's a nice guy. You know, maybe he's sick and tired of the criticism in a Canadian market, but it's been such a poor fit. And, you know, the surprising part about that is, A, he's in a contract here. And, hey, you get somebody to notice you out there so you can make some money for your family. You know, he's got a young family. And then B, you know, Rutherford's supposed to know him well and knew him as a winger in Carolina. Everybody knew what he was up to as a center in Calgary. Thinking if he wasn't having that great of a year offensively when he got, when he got to Vancouver, he just thought that the supposedly better players in Vancouver would help out. But it's kind of be just a, it is. It's a huge thorn in their side right now. It's, you know, Dakota Joshua is a good player. But he couldn't have had this much of an effect on the roster, right? But when he was there and that third line was going, it just felt like things around the line up in the forward group fit better together. You know, the puzzle fit better together for the Canucks. Yeah. And then I believe the talk of today hinted that it's still going to be a, what's that, five weeks almost. And so it's going to be a little bit longer for Dakota Joshua. And man, when that line was going well and the other lines were playing or producing more than they are now, like, what did that mean? We haven't seen that for so long. That line was great. It wasn't just that they were scoring. They're scoring beautiful goals, goals you don't expect from a third line. That lifts the whole team. And I don't know, like, you know, like, who would have guessed that Dakota Joshua would be a more productive, better third-life player than Elias Lett? No, nobody, nobody thought that. It just meant so much. And, you know, he's a rare body type on this line too. Like, there's the big guy who causes problems, who's got hands, like a pretty valuable player. He's making himself more money not playing than Linholm is by playing. It's a strange situation. Donnie, we appreciate the time as always. Thanks so much for this. Always good guys. Lots of fun. There he is. Don Taylor. Donnie and Dolly tend to noon on check TV joins us every Monday. Yeah. Great stuff as always. And on Dakota Joshua, and we know we spent the first segment, and if you missed it, make sure to check it out on the podcast about where they are with the U.F.A.s. and are they, you know, Alvin telling Pure Lebron that they want to wait, perhaps, until the offseason, unless they take big discounts and everything. Remember when the team was missing Bluegr for a bit? And we talked about, man, they really missed Bluegr. Yeah. Remember when they missed a suitor for a bit? They missed a suitor. Yep. Sousie. Right? And now that's on the back end, but yes. I'm not a U.F.A. But no, to your point, I think they're at a spot with their team where we caught up in the individual player when he's not there, but they kind of can't afford to lose any one of their top kind of nine forwards, right? Guys that play sizable roles or, because suitor plays in a number of different positions, right? Yeah. Same thing with Teddy Bluegr. We have them, it affects the PK, it affects, you know, what they can do five on five. When Mikayev wasn't there the first few games, and all of a sudden he came in and moved Hoaglander down, all of a sudden Hoaglander's, you know, moving things around in the bottom six. And Mikayev's playing well with Coz Manko on Patterson initially, and the team was really rolling. And it's like, well, when Mikayev came back, it really put the team back together again. So I don't think it's because of Dakota Joshua. I think because of the way this team is constructed, they really miss their fours when one guy's not there, right? When Patterson's not playing at his best, you can feel it, right? When they're missing a Bluegr, they're missing a suitor, they're missing a Dakota Joshua, you really feel their absence because of what it does to the rest of the roster. Things can't fall into places naturally, right? So I agree, they miss Dakota Joshua, but I think that's a bigger microcosm of where they find themselves as a team. And not to say they're screwed or anything, but it's more about, you know, we talked about the deadline. If you add one more forward, you kind of need your countable forward short if injuries happen, and you're still winning games, right? Like they've played poorly since the all-star break by their standards, and they're nine, seven and three. Yeah. You know, it's still pretty good. You know, yeah, they've lost 10 games if you want to count the three, two and one nine. So 500 in terms of wins and losses, but in terms of point percentage, they're actually well over five or over 500, right? So it's like, you're getting by fine, you're not playing your best hockey, but it kind of just shows you when they're missing one of their important, you know, cogs, you really see their absence. The puzzle just doesn't fit as well together, you know, as Jim Rutherford maybe had the most salient point of anyone when he mentioned at the start of the year, we need everything to go right for us. Yeah. And most things have gone right. Yeah. And honestly, you have to find ways to overcome using some of these guys, right? And again, I'm not stressing about it, but I also, I think we have to be careful about like Dakota Joshua's so important you have to give him whatever he wants to keep them because it's not just because of him, the fact that they're struggling. It's a Dan Reicho, Satyar Shah. I did have one other takeaway from from Saturday night's game. I don't think Alex Ovechkin's going to be Gretzky's record. I know he's got two years left on his contract was 53 goals short now. He's 53 goals short of tying the record needs 54 to get over it. He's going to be 39 in September. And he definitely looked his age when like the live viewing made such a difference for me. He he he struggled seeing him try to get around the ice and his lack of mobility in comparison to other players, you know, he's always been a big guy. So you wonder how it's going to affect him. I remember I was listening to one of the Washington reporters say earlier this year that he's really got to change the way he goes about his off season training program because he needs to do things differently than maybe he did earlier in his career. He's got to get on the TB 12. He's got to get into some kind of mobility training because he's got to drop weight. It was a tough watch like there was points where he did like the the House League hockey thing where like the the big kid just goes and sticks his ass in front of the net puts his stick down at the top of the blue paint and just like you can't move me just standing right there just waiting there yeah waiting there it was hilarious how he was out there. He's like the one of the worst defensive players in the league. He's out there for the final two minutes of the game to hope for a chance to score at an empty net and he almost got one but he's so slow he couldn't actually create any space to get to the puck and put it into the empty net when he actually had half a chance to do so. I hate talking about the greatest goal score of all time like this but it was a tough watch. I don't think he's going to beat the record at this point yeah I mean I think he said I think he'll hang around long enough to do it and he's got to lose weight. I think if he gets on a training program next year it loses like 15, 20 pounds lose a bit more swiftly I think they'll find a way he'll find a way to get there but I just don't think he cares be honest I think he's like hey I'll just hang around as long as I know I think he cares I don't think he wants to be like as much as he doesn't care do you think he wants to play four or five more years and like grind it out that way or five more years well I mean like listen like if he doesn't do the next two he's got to sign one more year right yeah like there's even one like I think in his mind he probably thought let me get this done with this contract and I retire realistically though so let's say he scores a few more goals before the end of the year he has like 50 a little less than 50 to go he's got a 225 goal seasons in his age 39 and age 40 season but their whole team is just based around trying to get him that record so I feel like he would do it within that two years I do think he has to lose some weight though oh for sure I mean like he's and I think this year is a realization for him too I would imagine like I think he's like I don't want to be embarrassed yeah you know and he's probably going to be so scared about how he this year went that he'll work super hard this offseason that's that's how I would imagine he'd approach it it's it's not that he's like I'm not saying Alex Ovechkin isn't in shape I just think he has to do things differently to be able to get around the ice a little better at age 39 at the absolute pro level but you know he's not as much of a factor on the power play anymore he is I mean look he worked hard to get that goal on Saturday but other than that not nearly as dangerous a player as he once was though he always finds a way to score against the Canucks give him 82 games against the Canucks he'll beat the record next year I'll tell you that much it's Dan Reacho and Sati Harshah coming up I will get more on the Canucks next opponent the Buffalo Sabres as we continue here on Canucks Central. Back in on Canucks Central it's Dan Reacho and Sati Harshah. Canucks and Buffalo Sabres coming up tomorrow at Rogers Arena the Buffalo Sabres fighting for their playoff lives they got a game tonight against the Seattle Kraken and then they'll be in Vancouver tomorrow now joining us to discuss it on the dispatch plumbing heating and air conditioning hotline the first call the only call it is Bill Hoppe covering the Buffalo Sabres for the times Harold thanks for this bill how are you I'm good how are you guys we're doing pretty well so the Sabres I mean it's been coming along pretty well it felt like it was coming along pretty well they got close to a playoff spot after beating the New York Islanders and then Saturday's loss to Detroit was a little bit of a momentum killer wasn't it yeah it was and they had just you know like it goes back to even early in the in the winter they they started playing well and they didn't make up ground but they've kept quietly kept playing well and some of these teams have started losing they finally started making up round and they had won three straight and they disposed of the red ones quite easily last Tuesday at home and sooner or later you felt like the red one is gonna wake up and yeah they lost four to one and it was one of the losses it feels like maybe that was kind of kind of the end I mean yeah you don't want to count the Sabres out yet but I mean these other teams have games of hand in on them and it just seems like it's just far enough that they might not be able to get it this year you know we talk a lot sometimes for for teams that are going through struggles about how having a strong finish to a year can lead into the next season we've seen that in Vancouver before and it has not led to a good season now last year finally it led to this year the team having a lot of success but given how many years this team has struggled is it hard for fans to even if they don't make the playoffs which is it's going to be difficult to buy into this star I mean this this finish at least meaning something into next year oh yeah I think so I'm fans are I think they're they're set up they're beaten down by what's happened over the last I mean if they don't make it this year's gonna be 13 years in NHL record and I just they've tried everything here they they've tried free agency they've tried tanking and and you know just rebuild after rebuild this one seems like it should work and last year they fell a win short of the playoffs they were an exciting team they came on late I mean that was the most excitement they had generated whatever since 2011 I guess and this was kind of supposed to be the year but it hasn't been and I think if you look back last year was there were probably a little ahead of schedule they were very very good offensive team and as they've tried to kind of round out their game this year that they struggled with that just playing a more mature game playing I guess maybe more defensively to put it as simply as possible and I think they're starting to figure it out but it just might be too late but that said I mean I still think I mean there's gonna have to be changes I mean they need more grit there's just inevitably something's gonna change during the offseason after really bringing back the same team this year but I still think they're on the right track I think they still have some of the leads best done talent they have Uka Pekka Luke in and who has become just really I think one of the lead best goalies since the new year they still have other prospects I still think they're well coached so I think I mean I still think that this group on some level with some changes can get to the playoffs maybe next year we've seen it with so many teams that have gone through rebuilds where and even here in Vancouver where it's like okay we've got some talent now but why are we still not winning hockey games consistently enough to get to the playoffs and what changed here in Vancouver Rick Tocka came in his head coach you know they started thinking about the game differently their puck management change they don't give up as many rust chances they don't give up as many big chances in a game as they used to it was just a complete team buy-in defensively is that what it is in Buffalo because it doesn't look like a doesn't look like a talent problem to me at least on paper is it just a team buy-in to the defensive side of the puck that needs to happen here well that might be part of it that's probably part of it just from the fact that these guys have had to evolve and mature and a lot of them were honestly young players I mean not just 20-somethings but early 20-somethings but it just honestly a lot of the problems throughout the year has just been effort and I don't think that means they're you know melee it in but I think the effort is just inconsistent it hasn't matched the other teams and that's bitten them and we've seen when they just when they it sounds so cliche but when they have that effort they they they work hard that they're capable of beating anyone I mean when they were struggling they had just some terrific wins going to MSG and beating the Rangers a few over few other marquee road wins and I mean there's no it's no secret I mean they have enough talent and if they can match the other team or out work the other team or whatever I mean they're gonna win more often than not so I think that I mean among other things has been one of the big problems and I think over the since January 1st it's kind of a line in the season for them I think that's been there more often than not bone by room is only 22 years old but he has a lot of experience on a good team already winning a Stanley Cup of course and being part of that ass team the past couple years is he already bringing a certain swagger to this group oh I think so I mean he I mean you can just tell by the way he works on the power play he's brought something and I mean he I mean he bring I mean he's raised a couple over his head so I mean that is huge and just to bring a guy like that into the mix who has you know has that swagger who's who's won a championship who wants more I mean he went from playing whatever he was playing in Colorado to his first whatever three four games he was playing twenty five minutes a night I mean he's on the top pair with Rasmus Dowling so I think he's had an immediate impact and that was I think that was a surprising trade I mean I was pretty shocked when they did it's a good old-fashioned hockey trade I guess you can call it but guys like that just don't come available so I mean to say we said to part with Casey Middle said the leading scorer but I think they're happy with what he'll bring and what he'll continue to bring I really think that just having a guy that just is one knows what it takes again sounds cliche but just having that guy and a guy who wants more who's just getting going so to speak I think that can really impact the group he wants more and I just I wonder how it's going to work down the line because of course Rasmus Dowling is there Owen powers there all left shot defenseman even Matthias Samuelson's a left shot defense I'm sure you've been asked this question a bunch and you've probably asked the sabers this question yourself but how does it all work with four big time left shot defenseman well yeah that's that's interesting we'll see how it plays out next season I mean right now Matthias Samuelson's out for the year right Rasmus Dowling plays very well on the right side so I don't think that that's a problem there I think I guess maybe the bigger problem would almost be ice time just how how can everyone get the ice time they want so far it's worked out well though I mean Rasmus Dowling and by room and Owen power have been getting their their ice time so honestly it's a good problem to have because I don't know how you rank blue lines in the NHL but I don't think too many teams can go three four deep with guys who are you know 23 24 under like the sabers do with Dowling by room Owen power and Matthias Samuelson I mean it's it's some remarkable depth and they're all just getting going and should only get better well and then obviously offensively they have a number of up front they have a number of talented players and one player whose name actually popped up and trade rumors a little bit was Alex Tucker to me it never made sense because he is a Buffalo guy right from Syracuse and he's on on one of the more bargain contracts in the NHL is a pure power forward making 4.75 next year in the year afterwards was was there any truth to the stuff from him being available do you think he is available or was that just something that kind of popped out given it was a crazy season with all the rumors I don't think he's available and Kevin Adams is very adamant when we spoke to him right after the trade deadline that you know he's not trading Alex talk he he's a guy that teams are for reasons who just stated are interested in are gonna call about and he said he listened you know obviously as GM he's gonna listen to what teams ask him but he has no intention of trading Alex talk I think he's he's a guy I mean he fits everything they want to do from on the ice to off the ice just the guy he is in the community I mean he's super popular just grew up a saber fan as he said had a career year last year he hasn't been up to that quite up to that standard this year I still think he's a guy that could you know have three goals plus 70 points for the next whatever four or five years after you know three four years after this it hasn't been his best year but I mean he's a first line talent and I don't see him going anywhere I mean he was a huge acquisition in that Jack like old trade he's one of Kevin Adams guys and I just I think he's a non-starter for Kevin Adams one thing that's been an ongoing conversation for for the sabers is their goal-tending and I know Ukepeka Lucan is sort of taking that job but today the sabers I guess they recalled Devin Devin Levi and he may get the the second half of the back to back which is in Vancouver how do you feel they've they've handled this this goal-tending situation to this point in the season did it take them too long to just commit to one guy I mean in hindsight it did it's they had you know they had Ukepeka Lucan in who not that long ago in my opinion was the best goalie prospect around or at least one of the two or three and his development has taken time with injuries just you know time in Iraq time was to covid all these certain things played into it even just underperforming in Rochester but he started making progress and he got you know he's gotten there but you know he was a Jason botryl pick and Devin Levi was Kevin Adams acquisition you know in that same Reinhardt trade of really the seventh rounder who it felt like the sabers were getting a first rounder it was a very odd dynamic and they they gave him a lot early I mean he was starting games right out of college last year right in the middle of a playoff push and he performed very very well and I think the sabers expected him to be the starter this year at least wanted him to be the starter and he started the first four games this year and Ukepeka Lucan in weighted and eventually he grabbed the job but I still think they're high on Devin Levi he probably should have started the minors looking at it hindsight I mean he's more than capable of playing in the NHL but Ukepeka Lucan in a lot better right now and Devin Levi has to play so I mean they're not going to have him back up but another good problem I mean they have one maybe the least best goalie since the new year and maybe the least best goalie prospect so I don't know how it's going to play out in the future maybe they're just a tandem next year but you know looking back hindsight yes they probably should have just gone with Lucan in a maybe but a little more patient with Levi but I mean Levi did a lot last year and you know they eventually kind of worked itself out. Final one for me before I let you go Zach Benson local boy from Chilliwack he gets to come back and play in front of some friends and family I'm sure tomorrow with the sabers in town he's had a really terrific year and I think you know we were all kind of surprised that he actually made the team and you know a lot of fans here we're pining for the Canucks to select them how well has he played so far this season and how good does that fit look now long term. Oh he's played terrific and looking back again I keep talking about hindsight or whatever but like I don't understand how he blasted until whatever the 13th pick I just don't to me I mean to me he looks like a top with three four five pick I mean he's been that good maybe it's his size I'm not sure but he I mean he's had a terrific rookie season and he he doesn't have a gaudy numbers or anything but I mean for him to go from the 13th pick to the opening night lineup when there were really no expectations that he would do that I mean I think obviously the first round pick he played a bunch of preseason games get a long look and go back to the go back to junior but I mean he's been he's been terrific since really day one and early in camp you could you could kind of see only like this guy look you might stick around and I think the more offensive will come I mean he's so naturally talented but I mean the thing that stood out to me is just the way he thinks the game I mean he's 18 and thinks the game like he's been around for for 10 years and Don Grandal often talks about how he's one of the smartest guys on the team and for for a teenage rookie to say that about him I mean that's amazing but yes I mean he's been a terrific fit and I mean just a building block player and for the 13th pick to get that much out of him so early it's really amazing to me hey Bill really appreciate your time and your insights thanks for this today all right thank you guys there is Bill Hoppe joining us covering the Buffalo Sabres for the times Harold he joins us on the dispatch plumbing heating and air conditioning hotline the first call the only call and yes we'll get a live look at the player I guess that some think got away from the Vancouver Canucks and Zach Benson tomorrow yeah I mean you know saw a lot of fans wanted the Canucks to pick up like we we yes remember the Benson versus Willander debates leading up to their draft last year could Zach Benson actually be available at 11 it looked like he could be a guy that could drop if you thought there's no way Benson doesn't fall doesn't go on the top five or six there's no way he's going to be there and it's like well because of the size thing you know NHL GM's think you know he may be a little bit lower on the list than on the outside while he's proving maybe why he should have been higher on the list now listen it's going to take a lot of years before we truly know what a draft looks like and how you would redraft it and wear a player ranks but he's been trippy to start off now Tom Willander in Boston this year at university level has played well he's 22 points in 33 games he hasn't been dominant but for a player coming over first first year is is exhibiting really good defensive skills his size his skating ability of course his ability to defend the rush and those things they're all very positive so a lot of positive things in his game as production shows you that you know he doesn't have stone hands right so it'll take some time to ultimately see whether the Canucks made the right call or not but Benson's having success at the NHL level and I think Willander so far is progressing fairly well at the college level I am I get it you know Zach Benson very much so in your face scored some pretty incredible goals I mean the first goalie score was unbelievable and is doing some pretty cool things as an 18 year old in the national hockey league it shows that there is a potential you know great projection for him as years go on but also with Willander you mentioned the 22 points in 33 games some other NHL defensemen that had you know similar points per game in their D plus one year in the NCAA Charlie McAvoy was at 0.68 Willander is 0.66 Kael macar was 0.62 points per game in his D plus one year in the NCAA and Brock Faber who's having an unbelievable year with the the Minnesota wild was at 0.44 now obviously points per game aren't to be all an end all four defense men but for Willander a guy who's not even getting much power play time there at BU his offensive point totals do suggest that there is a lot of good there compared to some other defensemen that are now in the NHL and what they did in their D plus one yeah now they do have a talented team too that's some good guys up front but if you also look at Brock Faber for instance you know it took him a couple years really put up the production at the NCAA level 12 years 12 points in 27 the first year the next year 14 and 32 and then he had 27 and 38 yeah third year and then he comes out and of course well the take on Willander too is like always a stay-at-home defense but there's not a lot of offense in his game and what did Patrick all Veen tell us on draft night when we when we talked about Willander what would Willander tell us when we talked to him there's more untapped potential there I still got a lot more to give offensively and more to learn offensively and even Brock Faber now Brock Faber obviously you know he was viewed as a guy that can move the puck and do some decent things but his production at the USHL level wasn't like you know they didn't pop off the page either there's some you know not concerned but he went in a sec around that people thought is he more of a defensive guy can he do more offensively or whatever and he really developed that part of his game he had some talent but he had to grow that part of his game yeah and look at him now 38 points to 68 games like he's for a young defenseman he'll be in the discussion for the Calder right he's playing like 23 24 minutes a game already as rookie it's pretty tremendous right it takes some time for defenseman so you may not even I think Willander is going back to college again next year I think that the organization has alluded to that we'll see what they if they confirm that that for sure is happening at some point but that's the expectation Zach Benson next year may score 2025 goals yeah but if he can become say Brock Faber or something along those lines now maybe Faber is too much of an ass because he's he's tremendous right it's like okay Benson can be really really good yes and Willander can also be very very good right so it's just going to take a bit more time for us to understand truly what he's going to be it might be an age old argument you know by the end by midway through their careers we're going to bring it up again probably because that's that's what we do here yeah and listen sure for me my argument hasn't changed at all finding a right hand defenseman mm-hmm that has size skate really well mm-hmm has defensive chops and some perhaps untapped potential offensively is to me too good to pass up especially when you see the skating profile yeah and and like the tools this guy has right you can't find right a defenseman you just can't and if you're afraid of taking them high in the draft yeah then you shouldn't consider taking them because you you have to bypass some talented offensive players some talented forwards to grab one of those defenseman yeah and oftentimes why they get bypassed as people are scared to take them over somebody that they can view as hey maybe Benson won't be a superstar but he's going to be a productive NHL player and what if Willander busts right but I'd much rather take the chance on the defenseman especially a guy that says tools he has him because you can't find right a defenseman you just can't find those guys ultimately the draft like this is where swings and misses in the draft will either make or break some GM's careers right uh we saw it with I mean the the the huge draft is a perfect example why did Kokinyemi move up the draft board there weren't many other centers available Montreal wanted to take a center at three so Kokinyemi moved up their draft board and they took Kokinyemi at three why did Barrett hate and move up the draft board for the Arizona coyotes there weren't many centers in the draft so they reached to take a center it's the same thing with right shot defenseman that we will that we saw in this year's draft and we'll see again in future drafts because they are so hard to find the good ones do not become available for the Canucks to find Philip Roanick the way that they did last year I mean it just doesn't happen that often no I mean they have to and you still have to spend to get that player in the future in good assets to either acquire that player or if they happen and this generally just does not happen hit free agency like you're doling out a massive contract in order to get that player in free agency the most recent big-time right shot defenseman to hit ufa was Dougie Hamilton so and what did new jersey pay they paid nine million a year to get him in free agency well and the Canucks had the trade the 17th overall and ended up being the 17th overall pick yeah and a second now we got a fourth back as well right but the 17th overall pick is a pretty valuable draft pick that's what we looked at the Horvat trade as the Canucks are getting a solid first round pick usually you're talking about a pick in the 20s like that's a you know top 17 pick yeah right that's the cost plus now you have to give them a sizable contract as well now you'll still do it if the player works out and it's worth it but it's even hard to make those deals happen and there's a double edged sword to it because not only are you giving the assets up you also have to give the contract so there's a couple risks you're taking here yeah now initially it worked now you're also banking on a working long term but how much easier is your job if you draft the guy it's a thousand times easier right like and hey if you miss on that player sure it it looks terribly on you you levy is maybe a good example from from the previous regime yeah but he's a left to me like and I don't want to just make out about lefty righties yeah but like if you have a right he was legitimate like willander is yeah they're rare they are hard to find you know especially with that size skating profile it's Dan Rocho and Satyar Shah so yes so we'll get to see Zack Benson tomorrow and looks like the the sabers will start Devin Levi in tomorrow's game against the Vancouver Canucks as well we'll have pre-game at six o'clock and also on television at some point after 6 30 as well we'll join after the game that is on sports net in progress in the lead up to the Canucks and sabers tomorrow night at Roger's Arena Dan Rocho Satyar Shah you are listening to Canucks Central
