[MUSIC] And the Carolina Hurricanes are going to come from a two goal deficit with their goalie out to score on the power play with six attackers. And then with six attackers tie the game with 5.8 seconds left and win it in a shootout. >> When they keep their way from the ice. >> I thought, how do we kill, obviously, but a good game tonight, you know? Enough game doing to get two points and we just weren't able to get those kills. We're looking for progress here on special teams. And as I said, when we take out the result and the mistakes that led to those two goals. There's a ton of things to like about our primary kill here tonight, despite missing two of our better guys. And I'd say the same thing about the power play, like the results aren't there. Tonight didn't go in, to me, there's some progress there that we gotta sort of shape through a little bit here tonight because of the way the result finished. With all of that said, we do gotta find a way. No matter who's in, who's out, what the situation is. We gotta find a way to close there, including especially the sex on the web. [MUSIC] Good Monday morning, bad morning, Joe Sportsman 5.9 in a fan, bad at this. Brad Gunning. >> Good morning, do, Brad. >> Thanks, you said good Monday morning and I was wondering it's like, I hope that's not mine. Like I want a personal good morning. You like gave a good Monday morning, but I'm happy that's everybody. >> Yeah, yeah, I want, you know me, I'm selfish. I want my own personal good morning and you gave it to me, so thank you. >> It feels like you are like inordinately focused on the good mornings, both beginning and ending of the show. It's like the thing that you most are like in-depth criticizing or appreciating the nuances of. >> The devil is in the details and if we can start the show well and we end the show well. >> Who cares what happens in the actual body of the show? You ever had sandwich with bad bread? It's no bueno, you need good bread to have a sandwich, okay? >> I don't know if that's a good example. >> What, okay, here's this moldy piece of bread. >> How good is the sandwich that matters inside? >> But honestly, you can have a really elite level sandwich with some wonder bread. >> Yeah, but you can also have an elite level sandwich if you just have a wonderful sour dough loaf. >> No, you can't. >> The fillings, whatever. >> What are you talking about? Just eat a piece of bread then? >> I do, I'd love bread, I do them all. >> No, no, no. >> Not so much now, but I had a big baguette phase where I'm like, I just like to get a baguette from the grocery store and just slather it in butter. >> Mm-hm. >> I'm a carb guy. >> What do you want? >> Yeah, I think you do well in France. People walk down. >> I actually, I saw a thing on Instagram, like, who knows if it's true or not, where it's like, this is what French children get after school. And it was just a baguette, like part of it cut in half, knows better than that. It was just bread, they slathered it in butter, and then they shoved like a stick of chocolate in there. >> Whoa. >> How about it? >> Yeah. >> I'm like, that sounds delicious. >> Give that to me now. >> I feel like that's not like over 50% of the children in France, they might have a comorbidities problem in France, they were doing that to all the children. >> I'm just saying, it's like a lazy man's chocolate croissant. >> So. >> Yeah, I suppose. Here's what you can get. You can get Nutella on a crepe, walking down the street in Paris. >> Mm. >> I'm done. >> I do like crepes when I went on vacation one day, they set up a little crepe station, and I was like, ooh, give me some of those. >> Speaking of crepes. >> No. >> No. >> Speaking of waffling would have been easier. >> Yeah, I suppose. >> These blow three nothing and a four to lead with under two minutes to go to the Carolina hurricanes. They lose five four to the canes in a shoot. Now you just heard from Sheldon Keefe, like you just take the result out of it, like just take the actual things that matter and count, and lots of good stuff to take away. Now we've broken down the single digit games of import for this team going for. There's still two against the Panthers, still the com, there's a lightning game. >> Yeah. >> The two of the season we got, the Oilers coming up next week on a hockey night in Canada. You got a couple of teams in the playoff mix this week, but as far as the games of import, I don't know if we look at the Flyers and the capitals as that, but certainly the hurricanes would have been that. >> Yeah. >> And they had it right there, well, again, under two minutes ago, they played the previous week. A couple of games against the Boston Bruins, certainly games of import, they've lost three consecutive of those games against teams that are certainly expected to make noise in the Eastern Conference playoffs. Are you like Sheldon Keefe, though, Brian, you're like, whatever, it's game 66, who cares? >> I'm more like Sheldon Keefe than I am screaming at Sheldon Keefe this morning, hearing those comments and not that I'm hearing them now, but having heard them over the weekend. I think that this is part of, and feel free to correct me if you think differently, but I think this is part of operating in the market of Toronto and feeling quite honestly, like kind of crushed by the weight. And I don't mean that this year, I just mean, he's been wearing it for a long time. It's never been quiet for one second while Sheldon Keefe has been head coach of the Leafs. He comes in to your places, Babcock, and then it's basically been, okay, go win a Stanley Cup since. And I think that part of it is not wanting to turn what was a bad loss. It's not paper over that into a 10 bell fire that feels like they're having to put out and answer questions about if they come to the podium and talk about how those an awful blown loss and we can't stand this and that's the type of stuff we need to hire none of our game, then that's all we spend the next three, four, five days, title I guess wouldn't be three because I actually play games this week, but until they play again. And I think there is some element because that wasn't game seven. That wasn't a game they desperately needed to get into the playoffs. It was game 66 of a regular season where they've got things to a certain extent, sewed up. Now, now I think the part that has to say is I'm allowed to say that. I don't want to hear it coming from them, but I think that this is partially a creation of being the Toronto Maple Leafs. I think if you take all these players and swap out the jerseys and they're Dallas Stars, they say all the right things and no one talks about it after the game. That's the way I look at it. Yeah, so there's a logical, you can really put your mind in the place where it's not too far a field to come to the conclusion that Sheldon Keefe and that William Kneelander also came to the conclusion of here's the quote from Kneelander, playing a team like this is probably what playoff hockey is going to be like. So I think it was a good test for us and I thought we played really well. Certainly, to have a 4-2 lead with under two minutes to go played well enough to beat a Carolina hurricane team that could win the Stanley Cup. So should you? I think like just on balance and certainly with the Jake Gunsell acquisition and the shootout winner, that's a team I think most people would pick over the Toronto Maple Leafs to win the Stanley Cup. But like I said, two games last week against the Boston Bruins where you had the physical pushback, but you got it scored eight to two. The penalty kill despite all the aesthetic beauty that Sheldon Keefe saw yesterday and one of those goals was a six on four, right? The first of the two goals and under two minutes that ended up tying the game and eventually Leafs losing in a shootout, one of those was on a power play. And sure, there was a nice kill in there. And then the power play itself, I mean it has a four on three in overtime and sure they created some chances, but that's been ice cold. Like there are legitimate reasons for a team with the expectations as high as the Toronto Maple Leafs that you would say, hey man, like, I know the overall body of work the last month and a half, two months has been really, really good, you know, they haven't, since the seven game winning streak, they've kind of kept the momentum safe for those, those Bruins games. But there are real indicators here that are concerning that the least or not the least of which would be the penalty kill, which continues to struggle despite all the acquisitions they made to help the personnel group. Well, the other part that you have to hammer home about the penalty kill is that you are getting stops now. For so long, you've been able to point to the penalty kill and say, is it a personnel issue or can they not just get saves? Well, the saves part is not an issue right now. And I know we'll have a big long goaltending discussion at some point. Well, I was about to say at some point today, it's the Leafs and it's this time of year. We will be talking about setting every day from now until something Roosets had one way or another. But I think that's the part that you have to hammer home when talking about the penalty kill is that the thing that I think we all looked at is could this be the Achilles heel that told in the back? It's not. It's the strongest part of the body. It's not. It's not the weakest right now. And I think it's a personnel issue. It's been the entire time now they're missing Mitch Marner. I don't think you can paper over that in terms of it being nothing. But Mitch Marner is not the when you say the power play, you can't really judge it without Marner. I think there's some validity to that. He is such a core piece. It's not exactly how it works on the penalty kill where you can't fairly judge the Leafs penalty kill without Mitch Marner. No, I think I think you can. Is he good at it? Yes. He is. But it doesn't mean you can't find other guys to do that. So the penalty kill is among the biggest reasons why this team should be concerned. And if you're sitting there saying that that's the thing to take out of that game, or I'll go back to all the games against Boston, and it's funny how we can quibble with these, right? Because you mentioned, well, it's power play goal, but it's a six on four. Well, in the Boston game, they score on a five on three that should have been a five on four. And we can sit there and quibble with all these things because it's not exactly cut and dry in, in my opinion. So that's the thing I look at is if you're going to be mad and frustrated or worried if there are alarm bells ringing coming out of that game, that's the thing it should be as the penalty kill. Yeah, it should. And ultimately, they know that we know that we all know that none of this is going to matter once the postseason hits. And that's the only thing that this team will be judged on. But if you're of the belief, and I am of this belief that accountability has been lacking in this generation of Leafs teams, they were going to bring Kyle Dubois. Back to spite the fact that they have one series victory in a six game span over the lightning where they were over the run of play out played in, but scoreboard, they won. They were going to bring him back. Sign him to an extension. The core for like never is there a discussion about breaking it up now. Who knows sliding doors moments if Dubois was back was there going to be more of a legit conversation. And now you're entirely possible. Now you're in this impossible situation where I mean, the one guy hanging out there is Mitch Marner, but he has a full no move clause and what you're going to move off of Mitch Marner. But like the core is not going anywhere. This is what you got there that, you know, Sheldon Keefatimes has been sort of like mini critical of his team and then had to walk it back that there is a lack of accountability. Again, this is a regular season game and you just still got a point and you had a chance to win it against a very good Carolina Hurricanes team. But if you're of the belief that, yeah, that there's been a lack of accountability over the last eight years with this team to begin with that did play into, I thought, the discussion post game again, like, do I want Sheldon Keef ripping a strip off his team? Do what is it maybe a bad message to be sending your players that you're like hitting the panic button that this penalty kill can't get a stop right now? I guess I can hear that argument. Also, there's an element of not placating the fans or the media here, but yeah, considering the lack of success that this team has had in the last near decade, it always, it irks me a little bit until I'll be like, yeah, that's not, we got to close that game out. Like, how about just, we got to close that game out? I understand what you're saying, but I, I, I is the guy who like, you know, is affected by this. It's like, I, I loathe when the Leafs lose, like it bothers my mood for longer than it should, that I'm not going to feel any better because William Neelander comes out and is sulking and going, oh, it's disgusting performance. We have to be better. It doesn't make me feel any better. Go do it. The thing about the, the thing about accountability is that I think it all depends on not what the accountability from Sheldon Keef or from Brad your living or hey, let's keep climbing the ladder all the way up to Brandon Shanahan. I don't need that to come in the form of Sheldon Keef going nuts and screaming about a disgusting loss and blowing leads. I need it to come in the room when it's Austin Matthews and William Neelander talking to each other or when it's John Tavares, but isn't that an indication that the, of the conversations or the lack of conversations to that, to that nature that are happening? I think, I think the thing that has to be stated in all of this is taking William Neelander's comments and extrapolating them into the mood or the feeling of the team. Dangerous game. The man just says the first thing that pops into his head like he is not unlike other people I think who understand the market they're in and couch their opinions that way because of it. Neelander's not that guy. So I think there's some element to that. I don't think that be, I don't, I doubt Sheldon Keef walked into that room post game before he went and talked to all of our beloved media members and said, well, we'll get them next time. Orange slices and pats on the butt for everybody. You guys did great. I don't, I, I would be a lord if that's the message coming out of that. Can I discount it? No, we're not in the room. We can't. I highly doubt they're sitting there feeling great about themselves after blowing a lead to the Carolina Hurricanes. If they are, that's a lack of accountability. That's a terrible sign of culture. That's, you know, fill in the blank, whatever, however far you want to go and I'm not going to disagree with you. But I think it goes back to what I said at the beginning of all this about understanding where they are and who they are when they say these things. And yeah, would it be nice to cop your ear to the fans and go Hulk Hogan and hear it? Sure. But unless they're going to not do that next time because of it, it doesn't mean a thing. None. None of it matters. Ultimately, when we judge it against what happens in the postseason, right? Yeah, of course. Yeah. Here's what we'll be able to do though. Like if they do bow out in the first round, we can use this as evidence as to like, oh, what is wrong with this team? You know, the fatal flaw of this team is that there's lack of accountability. And that maybe they're like, man, it was not that long ago we were talking about this team needing to play it its way into the postseason and how so many meaningful games down the stretch might actually improve their postseason chances, keeping that intensity up. Like logically, and apparently, according to Luke Fox, there's no team in the entire postseason field that can't move with like another month of games still to go than the Toronto Maple Leafs. So like, yeah, logically, I get it. Why should they really care about giving up a point against the Carolina Hurricanes in a game they could have easily won and yeah, okay, there should have been better coverage on I hope, but he scores with under 10 seconds to go on a deflection. They have a four on three and over time, but they could have easily scored and it's a shootout and it's a roll a dice anyways, again, get that, like logically. You're making great points. Honestly, love to keep striving. He's like, God, get this guy in the room. Yeah, logically, logically, logically again, eight, two aggregate losses to the Bruins last week, blue, a two goal lead to the other team. Like there are three games over the last two weeks that matter to this team. They've lost all three. Yeah, I think they're very, I think they're completely different things though. It's like the Boston games. It's like one of them, the Leafs were complete. They were outplayed. One of them, there was some kind of game scripts stuff that they weren't able to. Look at you, Mr. Apologist, keep going, keep making the apologies. I'm not making. Okay. Do we want to do the sun was in their eye too? Yeah. No, go ahead. I'll save that. I'll let you do that one when Joey Votto was actually allowed to wander onto the field and he drops a ball. I'll save that one for you. But one of those Boston's games they got outplayed in, one of them the score did not dictate the final score. And they showed the thing that yes, maybe it's not, I don't know, if let's do a Mount Rushmore of things we've been dying for the Leafs to show over the last three, four years. Physical pushback against Boston might not be the first face on there, but it's definitely on the Mount Rushmore. So is accountability. I'm not taking that away, but I think the three games, I look at them completely differently. You had one game you're outplayed in. You had one that the score did not reflect it, but you actually showed something and you had one, you easily should have locked up and shown where you showed to be at least as good, if not a better team than everybody who throws them in the bucket of cup contenders or teams with a chance. So I, yes, would you have loved them to lock it down and given the hurricanes, no sign of life? Of course you would have, but you know why the hurricane showed signs of life? Do you know why? Because they're good. Because they're a good team. Well, guess what? When the postseason rolls around, it's nothing but good teams. And I love the anecdote from Luke Fox also that you know, you could overhear hurricanes by saying, "That's Leafs hockey, Voria." Yeah. And this season, that's kind of correct. Nine times this season, the Maple Leafs have given up the game tying and/or go ahead goal in the last five minutes of regulation. I would love to say, I'm not, this is not me discounting that number because I think nine, regardless. I would like to see the breakdown, because outside of the hurricane's one, I'm not remembering a recent vintage Leafs blow in the lead. I'm sure it's happened and I've just washed it in my mind, but I'd be curious to see the month by month breakdown of that. If this is something that they weren't doing in the early parts of the season. I have it for you. Okay. Give it to me. Do you want to see a random down? Perfect. Okay. So yeah, March 16th versus Carolina. Yeah. March 2nd versus New York, and then, yeah, February 15th against Philadelphia. I was asking a question. I was asking a question. You act like I'm sitting here defending it. No, I mean, you are. You're coming up with a lot of, a lot of defense of this team and its results. But that's fine. Yes, you're right. I am, yes. No, it has to be said what they are. Yes, you're right. I am defending the hockey team that has, to the point you made, never really ever flirted with not being one of the playoff teams in the league every year. Give them self a chance. Yes, I am defending that group. I was just as bothered by the loss as everyone else, but we cannot turn every time there's a flashpoint moment into a referendum on the core, a referendum on Shelby. Well, to a certain extent, every time this question gets asked about, can they close games late? It immediately doesn't become, why didn't they close a game late in March against the hurricanes and see that bunch of losers will never win anything. There is just such a jump to that point from people. And I think that that is foolish, in my opinion. I'm not jumping. I'm just saying for a team, you're trampolines over there. You're not jumping yet. No, for a team with one, the lack of overall success over the last seven years and two, the issues that presented themselves once again in that game and also considering the fact that, yeah, they are locked into their spot. There's perilously few measuring stick games to squander to goal lead with under two minutes to play and then lose the extra point. Just thought would have, would have irked this team a little bit more than it appeared to do. So what would have, okay, like I'm, what would have been the right answer? I pick your, like, you can go full clue. It is Austin Matthews at the podium being aggrieved. Like what exactly did you need to hear and who did you need to hear it from? I mean, you're right. But the point about William Neelander, like can't throw the ball. Yeah, I would like the head coach to be like, don't throw the player away. Like the play. No, no, no, no. I need Sheldon Keefe to say something along the lines of, and then don't start with like the results or the process was good. Talk about we need results against a team that is probably going to be in our wife. We want to get to where we want to go in the postseason that, yeah, that's an unacceptable result. We need to start locking down these games. Okay. Is that acceptable? Yeah, I would have, I would have been fine with that. But then I also think that it, no, okay, I'll just, yeah, I'll accept that. That would have been, I would have been okay, I would have been fine with hearing that from Sheldon Keefe. But I also think that if that's not been who he's been this entire time, and this is why I think that it is a different message going through to the room, because I, I can't highly doubt he's walking in there going, we did a bunch of great things. Don't worry about the extra point, boys. We'll get him next time. All right. Was, was more than good enough to win that hockey game as well, though, in, in net for all four goals, couple of those, uh, with the extra attacker for the hurricanes, where are you at percentage wise for this guy being the number one guy come game, one of the post season. Oh, there's still so much hockey left. Like, actually, like, I know you think I'm just doing a bit here, but it's like, I don't know, it's still, I'll go with your, uh, well, it's more cowardly than you ever went. I'll just go straight 50 50. It still is. I think there is so much hockey left. I would love to be proven wrong. I just look at, I look at Samson off as a guy who he's going to give the team the best chance of the playoff started right now, but they're not. There's so much hockey left. He has not been able to carry back to back 900 save percentages for a month. So prove me wrong. I'd love to see it, but I'm still roughly 50 50. I will give you a tease. I'll give you my percentage after the break because I need to break. What? There's more leaps. Okay. We're not done with the leaves. There's all the Joey Votto of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll also talk about him in a minute. We're not done with the leafs yet, though. All right, boom. We are required to break. It's a fan morning show, bad out of this break, getting sports at 590 the fan. Hey, it's Ailish for a fire and I'm Justin Cuthrey. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. It's the fan pregame 6 p.m. weekdays on sports that sports at 590 the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. The iconic Canadian rock band, Blue Rodeo hitting Budweiser stage on Saturday, August 24th, along with guests, Matt Mays and Begonia. To celebrate, we're giving away one last pair of tickets. Andrew, all you have to do is tune into episodes of the fan morning show, listen for the code word, then text the code word to 59590. Today's code word is many a mile, text many a mile to 59590 right now for your chance to win today. Last day, we're giving away tickets for this event, but if you don't win with us, make sure to go to ticketmaster.ca to secure your tickets as they are on sale, right freaking now. Okay. You've been waiting. I'm at like 75% that Eli Sampson launched the game one starter. Oh my God. I'm not remotely surprised by that. If you were somebody who was starting from a 51% or I forgot, I forgot which 50/50. Oh, okay. I wasn't sure which side of the cowards ledger you were on. You're like, which side? 70. I was right on the line. 70. You're still a coward. No, I was not. And now I have come to be a coward. I've started this process not being coward saying it would be Joe wall. Now I'm back to the cowardly lion. Yeah. Look at you taking a bold stance. I haven't seen you this committed to a Leafs goaltender since Martin Jones. That beat me to it. Yeah. When I said it was like 50/50. Oh, what a horrible take when Ilya Sampsonov was with the Marley's and Joe wall was hurt that Martin Jones. I've been told the rules of this business so that you don't get to provide context to when people are taking up all takes. You're just like, you said a thing and it didn't turn out exactly that way. Dumbo. Yeah. Okay. So that being said, how do you think they deploy the goalies going forward back to back Tuesday, Wednesday, flyers, capitals, big game on hockey night in Canada against Conor McDavid and the Oilers. And then back to back after that as well because they play Sunday against Carolina yet again. So both guys are going to play. Yeah. I mean, again, the way it's it's gone. Yep. Even going back to Mike Dabcock is the better goalie. The number one gets the start in game one of the two on the back to backs. So does Ilya Sampsonov start tomorrow in Philadelphia? This could not work out any better for the Leafs and specifically Ilya Sampsonov. Okay. The Leafs, I want to be clear, don't accuse me of being soft on them. The Leafs didn't check the box on Saturday night, but Ilya Sampsonov sure did. He won't have to do it next Sunday when the Leafs play the Hurricanes because he'll be playing the first half of that one against the Oilers. And this one coming on Tuesday, he's not going to have to face. It's like, what's scarier to him? The 27 Yankees of hockey, whoever we decide that is, I'll say it's like the 2010 Canada Olympic gold medal team, or literally anybody wearing the Washington Capitol sweaters and you keep them away from his bugaboo, that's the Washington Capitol. So you don't give Carolina another look at him. You don't throw him in the trap that is playing the Capitals. Apparently it's only the thing that can undo him now. You give him the start against Philly, you give him the start against Edmonton, Joe Wall. Welcome back. You got to play two games this week. It worked so perfectly. Yeah. You're right. That does make a whole lot of sense. This guy who has been on the record about his mental bugaboos with his former team. Could you make any case, I want to be clear, the answer for me is no. Can you make any case of challenging him and being like, Hey, Elia, like you're feeling good? Because we've made the case for this Leafs team. It didn't work out this way, but that you know what they got to do when the red socks ended their curse, they didn't just end the curse, they didn't beat the Yankees to do it. There's been some element of that from team perspective. Well, and I would argue something to that for him. I would argue that last week, the deployment of Joe Wall, well, you also didn't want him sitting for all that long, like the idea of getting him in there against the Boston Bruins and testing him and against what could be a first round opponent, although the standings are right now, wouldn't be the Boston Bruins. Yeah, I, there is a line of thinking where I can buy that and I would push back to like, well, it doesn't matter because they're not going to face the Capitals in the postseason, except that they might, like the Capitals all of a sudden find themselves happening here. One point back. Well, that is going to be their Stanley Cup final. Yeah, for the Capitals, every single game going forward is their Stanley Cup finals. All of a sudden, the Eastern Conference playoff races is wild wacky stuff. Well, just while we're talking playoffs quickly, they're in standings. I know that this won't happen because we've played this game before, but the Leafs have three games in hand on Boston and they're 10 points back, like, I don't think they're in it, but they're certainly not out of it in terms of division, either, like, I guess not. It's true. No, it's, I saw everything you saw the last time, the last time these teams have played each other. I've seen the Leafs play this year where they've been, oh, they're going to get them himself in the conversation. It seems like they're combing cool. Luke Fox had the numbers there, but it's weird that they just win those games in hand and you're one point back. Easier said than done. No, they're 10 points back and they have three games in hand. I'm doing soccer math. I'm doing soccer math. You only get two points for a soccer math. I'm doing soccer math. I don't know why I'm doing soccer math. That's weird. Like the last guy who would ever do soccer math. It'd be four points back if you, yeah, win all of those games. It's still nothing. No. It's listen. You're right. You're right. Almost still stands. Very close to standing. Look, you derailed, but this is actually your fault. Okay. I took a break in the middle of your Leafs conversation. I was coming and I was like two in Leafs' thoughts and I'm just ready to go. And then we had to break. I don't know. It was weird that like in a world, sometimes you know, you just take and take them wherever that was weird. When the edict came down from radio God himself saying break now, sometimes when you're doing radio, there's just, you get a sense that it's time to take a break. Oh, and I, you know, I always defer to you. Yeah. Thank you. All right. Last one for me on that game, Nick Robertson gets back in the line. I was waiting for you to lead us here. He scores. So here are the Toronto Maple Leafs players. He is currently trailing in five on five goals per 60 minutes. Okay. So one fella at the very chippy top who's now only on pace for 68 goals. Um, Austin Matthews, William Nylander, end of list. Nick Robertson is third on the Toronto Maple Leafs in goals at five on five per 60s, playing like 11 minutes a game. He, all he does is score like it. If you could extrapolate that over like top six forward minutes. Wow. Then you'd really got something. You're a baseball guy. How does that work? You can't do that and he's playing against the opposition's third and fourth lines more often than not. But his one job, Brent, I get it, like you'd like him to be more defensively sound. His one job is to score can't argue that he hasn't been doing that. He's been doing that. Well, he has been doing it when you look at the numbers that way, but I'm also just going to do the thing where I pull up his game log. And before he scored last night, he went one, two, three, four, five, six games. So that would have a goal. He had a goal. He won two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight games before that he didn't. So you're right. When you look at it on a goals per 60 number, he clearly can. But I think that what that does is that hammers home the thing. I think we all kind of agree on there. There are people who are saying, come on, look at the goal for 60 numbers. You got to get them in there. But I think we all kind of agree that if he was just on an okay team or a fine team, we're quite honestly a bad team, where he could go get his power play minutes every night and play on the top six and not have to look over his shoulder for Bobby McMahon coming to steal his job. I think he would be a productive player. He's not going to be. He's been a productive player now though. He's not going to be his brother, but I mean, he'd be, he would be a productive player over the course of 82 game season. And there's a difference between doing that and being a guy who doesn't in spot duty. It is incredibly impressive being able to do it in spot duty. But this is also why he needs the continued run because there is a player in there who can help teams. It's just not the player to help this one right now. I still do feel that way. You feel differently? No, I generally agree. But I think we all discount the possibility that they add you try to win Nick Robertson and you don't regret it at all. Like let's just be open to the possibility that, yeah, the guy that was at one point and it's we're on to the new hotness of Easton Cowan who just set a London Knights record for consecutive games with a point. He keeps setting that London Knights record. I keep seeing it. They're like the longest. And I think they just keep stretching out the decades. They're like, since 2000 in 40 years, 34 gamer now for Easton Cowan, but number by that, I'm old enough to remember when Nick Robertson was like, Oh my God, we got to see Nick Robertson. Look at the points this guy put up in junior. I want to clue to land Nick Robertson in the second round and then, okay, like he's okay. The idea that the 22 year old couldn't come back to haunt this team, I'm very alert to that possibility. Because it's very difficult why he's been asked to do and the pressure point of his career to do it, right? And that the shooting percentage is not outrageous. It's what? He's like 13.6% this season that we've heard from Austin Matthews that he has the best shot on the team. I think people that are like, we're packaging Nick Robertson in every trade at the deadline. Well, one that it didn't feel like the value was there on the open market because it feels like if the Leafs could have gotten something of import in return for Nick Robertson, he would have been out the door. But yeah, two that you're careful what you wish for here with Nick Robertson. I am not blind to the reality that you trade Nick Robertson and he has a nice NHL life where he is a 20 occasional, like maybe once he clips, twice he clips, 30 goals, something like that. That's a really nice player. Yeah. Okay. But we can't pretend that that can exist in a vacuum here that he's not going to be able to get the continued run. What do we, we sit here and pick apart the flaws in William Nielander's game. Okay. That's not good enough at times for the Leafs top six. So I don't disagree or discount the possibility that he gets traded somewhere else or you, you know, obviously this isn't happening now, but who knows this offseason. You package him and Timothy Lillegrine to a younger team and they get a couple of pieces that they, and those guys come back to bite you, but it's not biting you because even a, and I was somebody who was super high on Rasmus Sandin, whatever he becomes in the NHL, and I guess we'll find out when they play the capitals on Wednesday this week. But whatever he becomes in the NHL, it was never going to happen while you needed to play hard minutes for a Leafs team that was ready to win now. And Nick Robertson's made a ton of strides in his life. And honestly, maybe it's not even about a time to win now, but it's just a market stresser thing. Is he's the third? We'll pick the team that just beat the Leafs. He's the third line winger in Carolina. Rob Brindomor gets mad at him about the odd defensive laps, but nobody talks about it. Nobody cares. He notices these things, but here it becomes such a focal point. So I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think you can look at it as regretting it because, let's say he's traded this off season, whatever he becomes, I think the chances of him reaching that ceiling here are 5%. I'm not saying it can't happen, but it just, you have to thread the needle so finely. Anything else on, on that game? Oh, well, you did mention Easton Cowan and Nick Robertson, and I pulled up both their DBs. So just a little compare and contrast. You're right. Robertson was pretty, pretty successful player, the 55 goals. That's something Cowan's not in 46 games. So here's what stands out for Cowan. It's his 21 points in 20 games, and though he chose playoffs last year. Oh, he's just a battle or he's a competitor. And that is, sorry, that is kind of the difference. And again, I really love the strides Robertson has made. It's just why it is so hard to win and develop at the exact same time. Other thing for the game, I don't know how much we should stress this, because again, that is the Leaf Power Play without Mitch Marner, but they ran out a two-defense minute in the year 2024. You don't see that. What is going on? That, to me, looks like a guy who is just flat out of ideas, quite frankly. And it's not even just ideas about the Power Play. It's ideas about how to protect the lead, it's ideas how to keep everybody in cage that I usually can sit here and say, "No, no, hold on. Let me squint and contort myself." And then I look like I'm playing Twister by the time I've got myself a new position to see what Sheldon Keefe is seeing. I got nothing. On that one. I got nothing. Here's what I got is that he was harkening back to, again, old enough to remember when the Leaf Power Play was an absolute weapon for this team, it was like last month. And they were clicking at 50%, and the best Power Play in the National Hockey League as opposed to the worst, where they're clicking along at like 5% in the month of March, and one of the differentiating factors. And I'm not saying correlation, causation here, was that Morgan Riley was out and started with Jake McCabe playing there, and then it eventually did morph and had its best success with Timothy Lillegrine there. And maybe it's just like, "Hey, trying to recreate the good vibes." I mean, yeah, that was Timothy Lillegrine, he has the one defenseman in that unit, and that did have Mitch Marner as another right hand shot on it. Yeah, so maybe there was just a, "Hey, whatever secret sauce you were a part of when the Power Play was good. Can you do that again, Timothy?" Mitch, it's like, "Mom, can we get McDonald's? We have McDonald's at home," and that's Mitch Marner to Timothy Lillegrine right there. He's like, "Hey, right hand shot, right hand shot. They both wear double-digit numbers in the NHL." And just, I don't know if we'll talk about this later, so I do want to get this in here. I need to see Mitch Marner on the ice today, or I have a lot of questions. This has been going on, like, we could be easily trending to two weeks here pretty soon. It's fine, it's fine, and I'm sure it is, but it's sawed the way they've messaged this one. That's all. Yeah. I don't think something's up, I don't think they're hiding anything, but sometimes things start out as small and they become bigger, and it would go a long way for me to believe that it's a small thing to see him on the ice sometimes. It's an injury. It's an injury if it's a high ankle sprain, something that he suffered before, but apparently, yeah, not that concerning. Everybody in the know on the leaf speed has said that it's an imminent return for Mitch Marner to be right, like having not seen him on the ice in practice. Although Luke Fox said he's not wearing a boot or a cast or anything, so that's good. Good. All right. We have to talk about Joey Votto playing in his first grapefruit league game. I can't believe I'm the one to say this. Don't say it like that. We have to talk about Joey Votto. We get to talk about Joey Votto. Yeah, well, I mean, the guy plays in his first grapefruit league game yesterday, unfortunately. And I mean, Blue Jays have to put him in the best position that they think for his development. And I guess against a majorly caliber pitcher like Zach Wheeler, like that's a good test for him. It sucks that game wasn't the one that was on sports and it was a split squad game as he plays against the Phillies and not the twins in the race, baby. Yeah, but we all saw the highlight of first pitch. And now must be said, the only pitch he's seen in the grapefruit league being deposited over the fence, although I haven't seen a defensive replay, whatever, even if it's not a home run, it was it was not going to be caught. The ump did the thing where he swirls the finger around. Okay. Homera. Yeah, the ball was back in play. I don't necessarily know where that hit. Who cares? It's a grapefruit league game. He hit it hard. Hold on. Care. Some lines at ballparks being like, it's a homer if it goes over this line or not. I can't stand that make a more definitive, sorry, just my hobby horse. He sees one pitch from from Zach Wheeler and he hits it over 100 miles an hour. The pitch was at 95 miles an hour and then he plays defensively in the field in the first inning and he steps on a bat and he leaves the game as a we're all left wanting more. There's a day off of the Blue Jays in spring today and he says that should be enough for him to get back in the lineup tomorrow. But man, now your mind is swimming with the possibilities of Joey Votto. Here he is after his first grapefruit league game. In spring training for me, I love, I like to use all 40 days and I'm nowhere near where I want to be physically and with my swing. But that's a good step, it's a good step in the right direction. So Joey going into today was wondering the plan? No, no, no. I accidentally stepped on a bat in the dugout, pulled my ankle and it hurt like the dickens. So I came out of the game, not intentionally I wanted to play, I was scheduled to play five and to get three of bats. Your production per pitches was good in this one, though. It's good, I wanted to leave on a high, I wanted to leave everybody wanting more. Alright and he did, he left us wanting more. Okay, first things first, what was the last time you heard someone say something hurt like the dickens? My mother will not say it hurt like the dickens, but sometimes she'll be like playing with my son and be like, "Oh, you little dickens you." So like I do, but it's like, you know, I love my mom. Is it, did Charles Dickens reference, does anyone understand? You know me, I want to talk about things during the show. So once I stop talking, you just do the thing where you start monologuing on Joey Votto. I will get to answer for that. But yeah, I have heard it, it's weird though. My mom like, you know, love her, but she's 60 years old here and Joey Votto is not old. Yeah, I guess, I guess, a hundreded heart, Joey Votto, it hurt like the dickens. Yeah. What? How many, if I, if I forced you, if you were on the world's worst game show, Thesaurus, and you were just like, "Oh, that hurts," is what they said and you're like, "Okay, go." Yeah. And how many would you have like idioms or sayings would you have to get through before it hurt? It's like the dickens and our man as a party beating me to the research, apparently it's from Shakespeare, whatever that means. Okay. Yeah. I'll believe it. Yeah. No, it'd be a while. I think there'd be a couple of, uh, of swear words. I would go. Oh, you think? I would have gone to first, but anyways, weird, uh, what wasn't weird was seeing Joey Votto hit a home run in a meaningless grapefruit league game. Now he, he also had some weird comments about, hey, like the, the poll home runs don't mean anything. And it's like, that's more legit. Okay. Cool. Whatever. If, if that's what you, if you need to, to, to see yourself with the opposite field straight away center field power to, to indicate that things are going well for you, I can, I guess I can. It's a little lie into that. Well, it's a little weird though, because everything I have read, and I'm sure you've seen all the same stuff or talking to people about this approach in Cincinnati last year, it's the ball and everything. Yeah. So the idea of, well, I had success doing that and we'll go away from that as I enter my age 40 season. Well, and it, yeah, Daniel Vogelbock also had a nice little game, had a couple hits yesterday as well. It is, it's hilarious how quickly, like one pitch, Joey Votto has seen one pitch in one grapefruit league game, and it's, it's, listen, I'll hand up, I'm doing the same thing. It's hard not to imagine, right? Like this guy, again, where there's reason to believe the last two years and the lack of reduction have been the result of being very injured and physically requiring a surgery and not being as prepared as he would have liked to have been going into last season. He talked about needing the full 40 days of spring training. I think an indication that, yeah, this guy is not, even if he becomes a major league factor of the Blue Jays, it probably won't be right out of the gates that he's going to continue to refine and fine-tune his swing and Buffalo before he's called up. But it's hard not to let your mind go to incredible places when Joey Votto is not taking some crumbum yarn. >> It's, it's Zach Wheeler at 95 miles an hour to left center field. Like it's, I'm sorry, it's hard to do that and now I'm Mr. Percentages. >> Yeah. >> I'm at 75% God that Joey Votto can at least be an above average hitter. >> I thought, I thought you were going to say breaks club with the tear and breaks camp with the tear. >> No, 75% that he can at least be an above average hitter for this team. And I'm also, this is, to me, the real question, I'm at 55% that he can be a real difference maker for this team, that we look back at the 2024 season and we're like, where would the Blue Jays have been without Joey Votto's production? And, and, you know, Isaiah kind of 11 couldn't hack it offensively at third base. And boy, Justin Turner had to play way too much third base or Justin Turner got hurt. And Joey Votto stepped into a full time DH role and carried this Blue Jays offense at times. >> That's 55% after one swing from Joey Votto. >> I'm happy you threw the second number in there because I was, I was wondering when you said of him being an above average hitter on this team. I'm like, well, does that say more about the bottom half of this team or you just meant like an above average? >> Above average, yeah. >> Okay, who's just clarifying, but then you stamp at home with the 55%. If I'm going to play your percentages, I'm just going to throw the first one out. But in terms of the, can he be a difference maker, I would say I started this process at about 10% of like, there's a 10% chance he'll be a difference maker for this team. And the reason why I go to that is the comp you've been banging the whole time is the Brandon belts. Like, can he do that for this team? And now I would say on one pitch, it's a lot to gain in one pitch. >> Yeah. >> I'm up to 20 now. >> Okay. >> He doubled his chances for me on one swing of the bat. Does it mean anything to you that it happened on the first swing of the bat? Like, is there something of like, wow, his eyes are so trained, he's just got it right away? Or is it part of like, it's baseball, he got a good pitch to hit and he took advantage of it and it happened to be the first one he saw. Like, does it mean anything extra that this wasn't, that this isn't a week from now or that is just bang right there off the hop? >> Honestly, if you wanted to poke holes in the Joey Votto argument, you would, you would say that, hey, like, Mr. like, always works account, takes a bunch of walks. >> Just hacking. >> First pitch of spring training. And it's a get me over, like, I'll be at not like, you know, 80 mile an hour fast. >> Right. >> Well, it's a 95 from Zach Wheeler. But yeah, it's the first pitch against Joey Votto, who he doesn't expect to maybe be coming out of his shoes on the first pitch of spring for him. That he ambushed him and that's not maybe necessarily an indication of what's to come for Joey Votto to which I would say, well, whatever, 95 is 95 and he's allowed to do that in a game. But that type of stuff does happen in games as well. You're allowed to, and it works well for guys who have a history of taking the first pitch like a Cavan Bijo every once in a while, will, you know what? Not take the first pitch and try and ambush a fastball coming out of the game. That's part of the game. >> Well, and I know a different style of hitter, but it's like Boba Schatz made his bones on such things. >> Yeah. >> Getting out there and after it, right? >> Yeah. So, yeah, I'm not going to be Mr. Negative about it because I feel like I'm Mr. Negative about so much of the Joey Votto stuff, but I will say that like where I'm at and that's different. >> We have such different bars for Mr. Negative. >> Yeah, I know. But like I don't think I'm the only one that is looking at one pitch and one swing of the bat and your mind gets racing as to the possibilities with Joey Votto. I think there's a lot of fans that are like that. I wonder how many people within the organization are like that and whether fan pressure has anything to do with the roster decisions that are to come in again, like the Joey Votto indicating, hey, normally I need all 40 days of spring training to get ready, so maybe it's never a possibility. But what happens if he comes back tomorrow and hits another one, like who's going to discount the possibility of him just absolutely tearing the cover off the ball in these final week and a half of spring training? >> Yeah, I think the interesting thing with it being one, and obviously if he continues to perform, it changes the conversation around this, but with it being one and it being the only pitch he saw and him having to leave the game, it becomes a complete Rorschach test for what you thought heading into it, right? If you're somebody who was less bullish on him, you go, well, you say the thing you said about this guy who takes pitches all the time, he's just jumping on the first pitch, he sees what is that? This is not even the approach this guy needs to have to be successful. What does that prove? He got one, good for him. But if you're somebody who thought he could still do it, he's hitting the ball the other way. He's not even doing that normally. Look at how far ahead of things he normally is. To me, the homer, especially with it, just being the one pitch, he rolls his ankle, he's out of that game, it just becomes a Rorschach test for whatever you kind of thought leading into it. Especially, it's one thing if you're a fan and you're just having your opinion on this. But if you're a decision maker, so I don't know if the khakis are decision makers, but if you're a khakis guy and you're looking at this, it's like you see what you saw, you see the bat speed, you see the exit Vilo, you see the launch angle again, one time, because that was all he saw, but you can kind of bleed that into your argument one way or another. That's what's so fascinating. There are only eight spring training games remaining for the Blue Jays, but one of those is a split squad game, although at different times on this Saturday, as they play 107 game in Dunedin against Detroit, and then at 605 they play in Sarasota against the Orioles. So maybe Joey Votto plays in both of those games, but no, it feels like there's seven more opportunities for Joey Votto to leave us wanting more in spring training. Is that enough for him, for the Blue Jays to say, holy cow, this guy is ready for Major League Baseball. I tend to think not, but if he gets into seven more games this spring and we see a couple more homers and we see him take a couple of walks and we see more of actually the Joey Votto approach where it's, man, his biggest benefit is going to be looking like Brandon Belted at times where he's like working a picture for a six-pitch walk. Yeah, it's going to be interesting the decision that is to come for the Blue Jays if he looks as good as he did after one pitch in the final seven games that he plays in spring training. Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I think Votto would almost have to not force their hand, but he would have to be pretty vocal, not publicly, but privately about wanting the camp. Otherwise, why would you not say, take a week and a half, take two weeks, and then we can send Daniel Vogelbach packing when you're ready to go or however you want to, you want to look at this, the inevitable injury right that will eventually come because it's baseball and guys get hurt all the time. Yeah. So that's the way I unless it actually does kind of tell me something about Votto and what he wants out of this if he does break camp with the team because I think it would have to come from him. We'll see. All right. We'll call inside the house. Yeah. When we come back back into the Toronto Maple Leafs and their shootout loss, the hurricanes on Saturdays we talked to our pal Gord Stella because the fan morning show continues, Ben and a sprint gunning sports at 590 the fan.
