New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at Pittsburgh's Acrisure Stadium to break down their 26-18 Monday Night Football loss to the Steelers. He goes over Dexter Lawrence's eruption on the sideline, Deonte Banks' benching, Brian Daboll diming out Daniel Jones for not shifting help over to block TJ Watt before the strip sack, and much more @Bleav. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
'This team needs to grow up:' Giants frustrations boil over in MNF loss to Steelers
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at Pittsburgh's Acrisure Stadium to break down their 26-18 Monday Night Football loss to the Steelers. He goes over Dexter Lawrence's eruption on the sideline, Deonte Banks' benching, Brian Daboll diming out Daniel Jones for not shifting help over to block TJ Watt before the strip sack, and much more.
- Duration:
- 1h 37m
- Broadcast on:
- 29 Oct 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
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This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are the things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. All right, everybody. This is Pat Leonard here from Acryzer Stadium in Pittsburgh. The Giants lose to the Pittsburgh Steelers. Difficult loss, 11 penalties, the Giants shooting themselves in the foot. Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, Daniel Jones, Deontay Banks, Brian Dable, all the principles I spoke to directly face-to-face after this disappointing defeat. They fall to two and six, and I have to say, I was at the forefront of tracking exactly what was going on on the sideline and in this game. We start with Dexter Lawrence, screaming at the secondary and members of the Giants defense on the sideline during the second quarter after George Pickens caught that touchdown that ended up getting called back because he only had one foot in. Dexter Lawrence was furious because he felt like they weren't playing hard enough. He said that what he said to his teammates at that moment was, "We've got to play harder, we've got to stop that play. That play shouldn't have happened, it shouldn't have come down to a decision by the refs." I just said, "We've got to play harder." He admitted later in the interview that that play particularly, he thought Deontay Banks could have "competed better" on that touchdown pass. Deontay Banks said that Dable and the coaches told him they took him out because he "missed tackles." I asked Deontay Banks if that was technique that they were talking about when they say "miss tackles." He said, "Technique, effort, it all rolls into one with tackling." Essentially, this was not necessarily quitting on a play, but just not enough. Not enough that his teammates are calling him out on the sideline, and it's publicly spilling over. This is something that is unacceptable, obviously. Brian Dable as the head coach, he needs to get his hands around this, but when you don't bench a player coming into a game like this when he's loafing on the field, this is the direction it can go in. Brian Burns said flat out, "This team needs to grow up." He said that what he was referring to with that comment was, "We need to be more detail oriented." He said, "It comes down to being super detailed in your job, frustration and emotions of the game leads to that." He said, "I think momentum swings cause guys to basically get outside of themselves, come out outside of their bodies and try to make plays like hero ball, essentially." He feels like people just need to do their jobs instead. He said, "The coaches can say so much, it's on the players." I personally feel like it's on both. For sure, if a guy's not giving you effort, then the coach needs to take that into his hands, but it's on the player to give effort or else. But the coaches are the ones who are responsible for getting guys lined up properly. I think they had three or four legal formation penalties on offense. They just killed themselves left and right today, shot themselves in the foot. On the offensive side, while Dexter Lawrence was frustrated with the onte banks, and then while we had Dable exploding on the referees and on the officials starting in the first half, we also have a very interesting situation with Daniel Jones. Daniel Jones, another game where he did some good and some bad and too much bad that wasn't good enough. But Brian Dable, when I asked him why they did not give Jermaine Aluminore chip help on TJ Watt on that strip sack and fumble that really just completely undid a great play that Bobby O'Karrickay and Mike and McFadden had made to take the ball away from Russell Wilson. Dable took a rare step of standing there at the podium, basically just outing that it was Daniel Jones's fault, rather than just protecting his player or glossing over it. He goes, he opts for full honesty to say that it was Daniel's fault. He essentially did not allow for a shift to occur and if that shift had occurred, they would have had that chip help for Aluminore on Watt. Daniel Jones then comes to the podium and backs that characterization up. He said he was looking at the coverage. He was supposed to shift Theo Johnson over to the right side to help with TJ Watt there and he never did it, so he put it on him. He said it was his fault. Now that said, I still think it's the wrong move to throw a player under the bus like that. I think it's ugly. I think it's another indication that the Giants are in the end going to end up scapegoating the quarterback and not taking accountability for some of the many other problems that are happening. Then I saw Daniel Jones on the field, obviously, I rate after that two-point conversion. First of all, Dable didn't need to go for two there. I thought that was the wrong move, but Jones was furious on that two-point conversion. Here's what happened on that play and then we're going to get right into your questions. Thank you all for being here. I know we're after 1 AM Eastern time here on Talking Ball postgame live with Pat Leonard here from Agrasura Stadium in Pittsburgh and plenty of you still wide awake. I'm sure watch some Yankees, watch some Giants, and you want to talk some ball here on the Believe Network and on the PL, on NFL YouTube channel. I really appreciate you guys all being here and sticking it out with us. What Daniel Jones said on that two-point conversion, what happened was according to Dable, essentially Singletary's job, Devin Singletary's job on that play was to check with the official that everybody was lined up properly before they ran the play and Singletary had not completed that process yet by the time Daniel Jones snapped the ball. But Daniel Jones, after that, was as angry as I've ever seen him outwardly. As angry as I've ever seen him as a giant, as emotional as I've ever seen him as a giant. His answer to why, he said, "We just didn't execute it right. It's frustrating, very frustrating. We heard ourselves a lot tonight and that's the most frustrating part about it. We've got to be more detailed starting with me. Some of the good stuff that happened was negated by those mistakes. He said, "I always play with an edge, I don't always show it the same, but I think I always play that way. Maybe I showed it a little bit differently tonight, but that doesn't change my approach in how I play. Just frustrated with coming up short again, nobody really cares that we're frustrated. It's what are we going to do from here and fix the issues. I certainly look at myself first." A lot of frustration, frustration all over the locker room, the coach pointing the finger at the quarterback, the quarterback taking accountability, but showing frustration out there on the field and on the sideline, Dexter Lawrence screaming at the secondary and particularly obviously calling out banks. You could really say that by the transitive property, Dexter Lawrence benched Deontay banks in so many words is what I observed, and frankly, guys, I'm going to pat myself on the back here because the ESPN broadcast did not even report on this and I'm sitting here at the stadium courtesy of the New York Daily News and I'm the one who noted it with my binoculars watching the giant sideline who tracked everything that was happening, who followed that to Deontay banks' benching and who connected all of those dots so that you guys can understand exactly what's happening with your team. So, this is the value of sending someone on the road to these games, but also of the experience and the knowledge and the way that I cover this team, my goal is to just bring you guys the full picture of what we're actually seeing on the field and what's happening with your team. How are they growing? Why are they failing? How can they get better? Where are the flaws? Where are the weaknesses? And where are they building, improving and developing? These are all of the details that I'm constantly working to dig on and understand. Now, you know, it will be a lot of talk coming up in the next couple of weeks about, I'm sure, trade deadline stuff and where this team goes from here, we're going to get into all your questions. I see some super chats rolling in. You guys remember if you drop a super chat in the comments section, those questions will be answered first, so I will hit those comments or questions immediately. So, if you purchase a super chat or super sticker, I will answer them first, they'll go to the top of the queue. Patrick Evans reminds you, don't forget to hit the sub and like button. Patrick, thank you for saying that. While we are live, guys, if you hit the like button, that really helps me out. That creates a lot of engagement. The algorithm on YouTube does its work, basically live engagement like that tells giants and NFL fans out there what we're doing and it brings more people into our community. And we welcome everybody and everybody who's here constantly, all the diehards, you know, really appreciate you guys. You are the reason that this is cooking, that we are sitting here after 1 a.m. Eastern time and the numbers keep growing and people keep pouring in because listen, we're doing something here that most people aren't doing. I'm coming right out of these interviews at the post game locker room and press conference and jumping live right on here with you and telling you what came right out of the mouth of Brian Burns, Dexter Lawrence, the Aunty Banks, you know, Brian Dable, Daniel Jones, like, you know, I'm here boots on the ground in Pittsburgh, right? And it's just something that you're not getting anywhere else right after the game like this as comprehensively. And like I said, listen, there are some games where you miss some things and you feel like some other people track some things differently or better or whatever and you're piecing the things together on the back end and trying to be better the next time. I feel like I saw it all tonight and I feel like I can give you the best read on what happened tonight from this stadium with your Giants and even watching the Steelers and how they play too. But this wouldn't be possible without our sponsors. So I want to thank my bookie. My bookie is a sports book. You guys should open an account right now and start tracking and tailing my Pat's picks. So I was around 500 this week on my picks overall, but I was three and one on my four Pat's picks best bets. And so that puts me at, let's see, in the last three weeks, okay, my Pat's picks. So we have three and one this week, three and oh last week and two and one the week before. 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It's from D kit. He says throwing Jones under the bus was a bitch move. I agree that was ugly, you know, obviously it turns out that they will is telling the truth about the play because Daniel Jones didn't fight it. He said that's exactly what happened and it was on him. But listen, there were a lot of reasons why they lost this game and, you know, and yes, table was asked a question and he answered it honestly. But I feel like this is definitely all being set up for the quarterback to be scapegoated. And listen, they're going to move on from Daniel Jones and I'm not taking any issue with that at all. What I'm saying is there are more problems here than the quarterback. That's what I'm saying. And the narrative that keeps getting pushed that if you get a new quarterback, things will start looking right because everything else looks fine. I do not agree with Elias says Jones is being set up as the scapegoat. This era is almost over. And I think he knows it. Hence the anger question is will the locker room survive yet? No, that's a great question because the frustration tonight was palpable from this locker room. They're telling themselves, so Greg Van Rotten, the right guard, the starting right guard, he spoke to the players, to the team after the game in the locker room. Dexter Larch told us that. And Dexter told us his message to the team, Van Rotten's message to the team, was that they need to start getting after the little things. They need to start cleaning up the little things because they're a good team. And that's all that's beating them. His team is better. Dexter Lawrence said he thinks their team is better than the 2022 team that went to the playoffs. He just thinks they're shooting themselves in the foot. You know, there's two ways to look at this. The Giants could say we've put enough good football out there that those little things are what's hurting us and holding us back. But you could also look at it as they are a bad team because they're the kind of team that does those things, right? Chris Mann hurts, catches a touchdown pass, gets called back due to an illegal formation. Malik neighbors really hurt the team tonight. I mean, he had drops. He caught one touchdown and didn't get his foot in. He had at least two penalties, I believe, you know, just a really rough night all around from the rookie, even though he still led them and catches, you know, a couple of deep balls. He had two drops, the one deep ball, the other one short. And then there was the deep shot down the left sideline in the first half where it looked like if he kept running, he would have run underneath the ball and scored. But instead, he kind of hesitated as the ball was in the air and didn't make the play. So, you know, definitely a tough night for him. Daniel says every game, David does something to lose the game tonight, shouldn't have gone for two. All momentum gone after that. Where is the accountability? I agree. Daniel going for two made no sense in that situation. It was very questionable. I thought that the broadcast was extremely friendly to the Giants tonight and was not calling into a question enough of those things. I think you're very savvy and smart for seeing that, didn't understand it in the moment. And then obviously out thinking himself with that play call, I mean, I would love to know what Daniel Jones actually said in that moment because obviously he was frustrated that they didn't line up. But Daniel's reaction, he's screaming at the sideline, he's yelling at Deble, then he storms off to the bench, grabs a tablet and I think as Deble was coming over to talk to him, he stands up and walks away and he's yelling some more, you know, really just coming undone here. It's a complete mess. Let's see. Thank you for that Super Chat there, Daniel. And we have another Super Chat rolling in here. It's Hunter. He says, "Too many people think we can do a Washington turnaround because they got Jaden Daniels. That's not how it works. Coaching and lack of heart is missing too." Yes. The situational football. How about at the end of the first half, the Giants? This was interesting. You probably didn't notice it, but seeing it live, at the end of the first half, the Steelers had barely any time left and one time out left and Russell Wilson completed a pass and then the Giants defense was kind of scrambling and they didn't get the right personnel on the field and then Deble was trying to call a timeout. The Giants defense was not set. They were not ready. They didn't have themselves under control and they snapped the ball and fortunately the pass rush got to Russell Wilson quickly enough that he just dumped it down in the clock round out. But these situations, the situational football element, and yeah, Daniel Jones didn't make the right shift to help Jermaine Aluminor in that spot and he owns up to it, but your job as a coach in those key moments is to set your team up for success. It's on everybody. Brian Deble, Daniel Jones, everybody's accountable. Patrick says this mistackling in this game, the mistackling in this game was a joke. Jim says, Pat Eli Manning said before the TJ watch strip sack that they had to chip him or double team him. They didn't. When the TV commentator is smarter than your coaches, the team has a big problem. Yeah, well, it turns out Eli was saying that he recognized that, you know, as the quarterback too. So it is on the quarterback and also the coach. Chronicle says news flash, Daniel Jones is still a part of the problem. Of course he is. He's just not the only problem. But yes, he is part of the problem, obviously. And he says that after all these games that he has to be better that it starts with him. Daniel, you know, there were a few plays tonight, maybe two or three where the play failed because he wouldn't get the ball out of his hand if he wasn't trusting what he saw. At least three plays, I think, that come to mind. And there was actually one play where it was, I believe a third down, he didn't get it out quickly enough. It was incomplete. They end up punting. And, you know, Debo had told him to get the ball out of his hand, like to throw it, you know, make a play. George says, get your boom chaga ready, y'all. This is going to be a late one. That's right. Take some of that boom chaga. Barb says, don't blame Jones for this. Everyone wants a new quarterback. Meanwhile, we need to revamp the O line. Jones never has time. It's a disgrace that we still have this issue. Hard to argue with that. They started Chris Hubbard at left tackle tonight. And let's check how they did with pressures. Let's see, Daniel Jones was pressured on 51.2% of his dropbacks. Russell Wilson was pressured on 24.2% of his dropbacks. So Jones pressured on slightly more than half, not what you want to see. Let's rush, let's see, all right, let's get to the next question here. Lane checks in, says, name me a reason why Dave O'Shane and Jones all shouldn't be gone by end of season if we don't have more than three wins, pathetic. Many caps. It is pathetic. And Lane, I have news for you here. I've said this already, but I'll say it again. Despite John Mara's vote of confidence, I still think there are going to be major changes after the season. I still think unless something dramatic changes, I still believe at least the head coach will be fired in the end. Again, this is if everything continues in the same track that it is now. That's what I think. General manager, not sure. I do believe that I don't think it would be right to pin everything on just the coach when the general manager is so heavily involved in the operation. He has his hands and everything. But I'm just saying that the vote of confidence made it sound like everyone will be back next year, everything's fine, and I am going to plant my flag as I have already on the fact that if things don't change dramatically, that will not be true. There will be major changes this year in some form after the season, if nothing else. Patrick says I think the old line played as well as they could, and we were still in this game. Jones has to go no touchdowns again. Big pressures, a lot of pressure, he had to get the ball out fast, but yes, they were able to operate tonight. John has been watching six years of Daniel Jones' panicking. What more do the Giants have to see? How many damn times do we have to see the same song over and over? By the way, I thought it was very interesting. Before the game, Mike Garifolo, a reputable, obviously, reporter for NFL Network, mentioned a report on the Giants pretty definitively, more definitively than anyone's really said so far, that sooner or later, the Giants will, if this season goes south, have to bench Daniel Jones because of that injury guarantee. It was a pretty strong comment. He didn't phrase it like a report, but he essentially said definitively that we're heading towards the route, possibly, where that would be happening. I think that's a reinforcement and indication that as this season starts going off the rails here, and they understand that they are out of it, and they are definitely close to, if not already, clearly out of it, even in their own minds, obviously, in my mind, they're out of it. I definitely think with two games remaining here before the bye week, you're definitely talking about an injury guarantee, benching happening, probably based on that comment and based on the fact that if they're going to continue to lose, probably sooner rather than later, would that be the week after the bye? Would that be before the bye, if they lose to Washington? Would it be in Germany? Who knows, but I definitely think post-bye is, there's a lot coming there, Joe Shane would be talking during the bye, so keep that in the back of your minds. Rookie move says, "I'm probably in the minority on this, but this is not all Daniel Jones. Yes, he's not 100% perfect, but he shouldn't have to be. Other players need to be accountable." I agree, Rookie. I agree, I think I can't stress this enough. There is a public relations effort, and by that I mean there are people connected to the giants who want the blame and the target focused on Daniel Jones' back so that people believe that there are not others who need to be held accountable and that is where the blame belongs and belongs solely. I do think Daniel Jones is somebody who based on how long he's been here and where this is going and the fact that it's not getting better. I have no problem and it's your prerogative and I have no problem with going draft and a quarterback, replacing the quarterback, especially when the Giants obviously had already decided that he was not their guy when they went and tried to draft someone this year and they just couldn't get up to draft Daniel's or Drake May. That said, I think that you look at a game like tonight, like the special teams coordinator, Michael Gobreal, earlier in the season when Austin Echler returned to touchdown on a kickoff for Washington and Graham Gannell got hurt and left the game, the special team coordinator wouldn't talk about the play when he did an interview with us a few days later at the podium. Said because it was last week, it's a new week, and that's not accountability. That is a lack of accountability, but then he was willing to talk about the field goal block in Seattle that helped them seal a victory with the same timeframe, asked a few days later. He's taught for about eight minutes answering questions about that. That's just bad culture. We're sitting here in a culture where the quarterback gets dissected and grilled for every little thing, and then you have a coach of one side of the ball just deciding he's not going to talk about it when things go wrong. I think the Giants really need to figure decide what they really want to be, because that's not setting a good example, and that's why I think those types of issues are something I really have an issue with wrapping my head around. The idea that Daniel Jones is held to this high standard, but not everyone is held to that same standard of accountability. I don't think that's the right way to operate. Kyler says, "I'm only 27, and the Giants and Yankees are going to have me die of young age. The sun will come up tomorrow, Kyler, I promise." George says, "Pat, what are you hearing about the trade deadline?" I think definitely team's interested in Slaton, for sure. Aziz's name keeps getting pushed out there. It almost feels like the Giants want to try to get something for him, I don't know who's going to come get him, that'll be interesting to see. I know in the beginning of this year when his name was hot, all of a sudden on the rumor mill, the Giants really weren't going to trade him at that point. I think a lot of it is his name getting pushed out there to start a brush fire to see what it can generate. Obviously though, Slaton and Aziz are kind of the guys that lead that list of players to watch. Personally, I think if they could get anything for Isaiah Simmons, they used him more tonight after he didn't play snaps last week, but my guess is they would try to get something for him if they could. I just don't know if he would because he's such a unique player. Not everybody knows how to use him. I think they traded a seventh form, I believe, when they actually got him, so you know, as far as big names that they would look to trade or get something big back for. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally, but don't sweat it, Granger has you covered. 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Shopify powers 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S., and Shopify's the global force behind Allbirds, Rothy's, and Brooklyn, and millions of other entrepreneurs of every size across 175 countries, plus Shopify's award-winning help is there to support your success every step of the way. Because businesses that grow, grow with Shopify, sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com/Westwood1. All lowercase. Go to Shopify.com/Westwood1 now to grow your business. No matter what stage you're in, Shopify.com/Westwood1. They don't really have a lot of those players, and when you're the giants, you can't afford to get rid of good players, because you have a handful of high-end players, and that goes to show why losing guys like McKinney and Barclays is so detrimental, because it's not like the roster is filled with top-end talent and depth, but Slayton is definitely the player I'm in zero in on, because teams are interested in him. I just don't think the Giants will be able to get as much for Slayton, though, as you would hope, but we'll see about that. Kyler says, "Contipidot, move inside. We need to keep Ojilari, have Burns and Ojilari outside, and Tibidot, get B.J. Hill next to Dex, double-trade Aziz, for what, a fifth?" I don't know if Tibidot can move inside, though. He does have some power to him, but a full-time interior, I don't know about that. That's interesting. Yeah, I don't think he's ... I mean, he can do that in sub-packages, but I don't know about like a full-time interior. Aziziki says, "Also, you have to be able to push the pocket on the inside, and Dexter can do that." I don't think Kavon, that kind of player in Russia. Aziziki says, "It's not all Daniels' fault, drop passes and whatnot, but defense gave them multiple chances, and when it comes down to it, D.J. just can't win you a game." Tyler says, "We should keep slating as well for the rookie QB next year. His contribution is more valuable than a sixth or a fifth. Been hearing Drew Oller in mocks. He's getting some attention." Well, the Giants are definitely heavy in that quarterback market. They were last year. They will be again this year. Oller, the Penn State quarterback, a lot of names out there. We'll see which way they go ultimately in the end and what pick they have. The Giants said, "Sadly, focus more on the Yankee game. Both teams sucked it up tonight, unfortunately." Oh, super disappointed in the Yankees, man. Super disappointed in the Yankees, I mean. Turns out that, I guess that, listen, they've had, their bats have shut down before, but it's like game one, it's like they lost a series in game one, is the way it feels. That's how it feels. Antonio says, "We're allergic to winning, Pat." No doubt, well said. Allergic to winning, meaning not focused enough on the details that it takes to win, and therefore creating these losses themselves, right? Also just getting shredded on the back end, too, I mean, even when they took Deontay Banks out, obviously, Drew Phillips had a rough night tonight, rough night. Hooks says, "What hope do we have left as Giants fans, the hope for a top three draft pick and actual offensive coordinator separate from head coach? At least the kicker was good tonight." Yeah, I think Hooks, and we can get into this if you guys want, I mean, at this point, do you want this team to tank? So you guys know, as well as I do, that John Marrow doesn't believe in tanking, and the Giants don't want to go that route, and that their ownership is against it. But do you want to see the Giants sell off pieces, like Slaton, like Aziz, even if it means them definitely only winning two or three games all year, or, you know, winning no more than four games all year, would you like to see the Giants tank for as high a draft pick as possible, or do you not love that? Joey B says, "We suck, it's bad, Pat, no doubt." A2 says, "100% DJ's fault, that's what he's paid for, to drive down the field and score touchdowns, that amount of excuses for that guy is why this franchise won't move forward delusions abound." Candyman says, "Of course it was 100% DJ's fault, but he still needs to go." Of course it wasn't 100% DJ's fault, but he still needs to go, "Oh, lying without Andrew Thomas is his disaster, they do play with heart, but heart alone does not win games." D-Kid says, "Pat, this is crumbling before our eyes, the team is in shambles, how did we get here? This is what they were the whole time, talent wise, discipline wise, coaching wise, tried to tell you." And you guys, you guys listen though, you guys know what's up. And this is, that's why this has been such a constructive conversation, I do feel like you guys understand the difference between, you know, us kind of talking things over and then me shifting into the mode where I'm kind of taking you behind the curtain, behind the scenes of what they really are. Hunter says that Joe Shane bought himself a year more with the draft. So when you say with the draft, you're referring to which players, because Tyrone Tracy Jr, I've said all along, I like him as a player, I do, and yes, good draft pick. Week neighbors has really hit the skids here recently, bad game from him tonight, second round pick, Tyler Neubin, leaving you wanting a lot more so far. Another player who has a lot of upside, but I need to see more. Drew Phillips has been encouraging, had a really rough game tonight, really rough game. Theo Johnson continues to be a player who just, he just need to see more from him. He did make a play in the passing game late tonight, that was encouraging. Tracy obviously really good and Louis Sal, a late round linebacker. So I don't think it's any great shakes. I think this year's draft has potential to be a big deal, or to be significant for them, like if neighbors gets back to his early season form, if Neubin becomes more of an impact playmaker, then I think we're talking a little bit more in the direction of what you're saying. Patrick says, "I wouldn't trade Darius Slaton, he's one of the only positives offensively since Daniel won't throw to Malik early enough. If Daniel can't read defenses now, like making shifts when he needs to, that's a huge problem." Yeah, no, you're right. You're right about, you know, that problem, but also, you know, Slaton being really the only positive in the passing game overall tonight. Thanks to our sponsors again, MyBookie.ag, rolling out the red carpet for bettors in their 10-year anniversary. 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All right, we keep rolling here on Talking Ball postgame live with Pat Leonard right here from Accraure Stadium in Pittsburgh feels really weird to say that. It's Heinzfield, right? So why are we calling it that? But okay. Patrick, by the way, thanks for the $20 super chat. Really appreciate that huge contribution, huge help. Thank you. For everybody who's new or returning, best way to support our channel here in addition to participating and watching and attending is to participate with our sponsors, sign up and support our sponsors, MyBookie, BoomChaga and state98. Thank you all very much. All right. Let's see. Collusion says we have a quarterback who's not good enough. He's been here through three head coaches and two GMs. That said, as there is no excuse for DJ, it's hard to give a pass to Dave Bull for how bad the offense has been. Yep. Agree. Collusion says we'd hate to see another head coach get fired with Daniel Jones at the home. Ten plus years of bad football, one way or another, I miss being excited about giants football. Ken Peters predicts that Daniel Jones will have a golf-like resurrection on his next team. I don't know if it'll be that special, Ken, but I tend to agree with you that wherever he goes next, especially like, listen, he's not, I'm not saying he's going to Denver with Sean Payton or whatever. But I'm just saying if he ends up with a rabbi like that, you know, if he ends up going somewhere with a coach who understands him, knows how to use him properly and deploys him in the way that he needs to be and who also kind of is better at scheming him up to conceal his weaknesses and highlight his strengths, I definitely would not shock me at all. Because he has always felt like the place to me, like the Titans feel, you got Brian Callahan there, I mean, that team's kind of a mess right now, but like, they don't have a quarterback, you know, Daniel Jones from North Carolina, it's close to the hole, you know, in the south, you know, not the New York pressure cooker. Yeah, I just, that just adds up to me that just feels right to me. But that's not like me reporting anything, it's just, just a team that I feel makes sense. Big Dog says, imagine telling Russell Wilson, a Super Bowl winner that he has to back up Daniel Jones and he comes at an egg you right in the face with a prime time win. Well said, Big Dog, well said, iconic says, Pat, I know Maris said both GM and head coach is safe. Do you know who will be the OC since we know Kafka is gone? I think they're going to have a whole new coaching staff. I'm just wondering whether the GM is going to stay, that's my opinion. And then that will determine who the OC is, I think if they will, we're still here, then I think he would end up elevating, I guess, Shay Tierney to offensive coordinator because that's his guy. That would be my guess. And YOG says Daniel Jones never makes the play. George Lewis says, I know John Merritt said the head coach and GM are safe, but what is Steve Tisch thinking about this? Things can change. Somebody might still get fired at the end of the season. We never know. I agree exactly with that. I believe that Steve Tisch is the person I want to hear from now. And I know from experience that he and John Merritt, as they deliberate and as the season gets later and as the losses pile up, Steve Tisch is a brass tax, no nonsense businessman when it comes to these types of decisions. And usually when he weighs in and he's fed up, it ends up resulting in people losing their jobs. That's happened before. And I think it will happen again here. George says, I can see another wing situation with owner and coach at the end of the season. Let's see what happens. Patrick says, we need to stop blaming the coaches the quarterback I've seen enough. I think you're missing the whole big picture there, Patrick, but I understand your frustration with the quarterback and with the offense in general. George says he's been the coach for three years. No results. Only the first year the team did well. George says, Patrick, you're right, but remember the coaching GM keeps saying that he's the guys who is both of their fault, just speaking my piece. Killer camp says the quarterback change will happen after the by Daniel Jones will leave us with precisely two more performances with lackluster results, but he will certainly show grit and toughness. Lock will be quarterback one after Munich. Let's see, optimal says, why have I been torturing myself 12 years watching this team? It's tough, especially these prime time games, man, where the whole nation has to watch it unfold. Joey B says, our defense is soft as baby poop. We can't tackle. We can't make many stops. Dex and Aziz played well. We have zero things to be happy or optimistic about on offense. Let's see, Hunter says, who the hell teaches discipline around here because obviously it isn't stable. Dumb errors, you fix rookie year, O line, illegal man downfield, runner not set. It's getting old quickly. No doubt. This is, it's not just the players. Patrick Evans checks in with a super chat and says, Pat, you're a tank. Thanks for staying up late to bring us all your info. Appreciate you, bro. Thank you, Patrick. Thanks for showing out on the super chat there, too. I really do appreciate that and thanks for contributing so much to the chat and to the questions. All right. Let's see. Honestly, I wasn't sure of the type of crowd that we were going to get with the Yankees playing tonight. I think, unfortunately, because the Yankees laid such a big dud and the Giants game really ended up with a lot of drama and frustration and stuff coming from the sidelines and the team and the locker room, actually, strangely ends up being a more interesting post game, kind of rehash and dissection than we were expecting. All right. Let's see. But yeah, Hunter, to your point there, to your point there, you know, those are coaching issues. It's not just players. Intel says to end the Daniel Jones experiment, Bill says half the team mistackles today, yeah. No, the defense had a really tough night. His bank's thing is getting bad quickly, says collusion. Actually, it's already passed bad. Simeon says Hubbard was a revolving door left tackle is Neil worse than a revolving door. They clearly have zero intention of playing, I mean, zero. Ken says amazing that Shane traded up a pick for banks when Joey Porter Jr. was also sitting there. Simeon says now everyone is pointing fingers, the definition of a lack of discipline, no doubt. Ken says banks reminds me of Caderius Tony. I think Tony was completely aloof. I don't know where I genuinely don't know where Deontay banks aloofness and frustration. You know, that's leading him to do these things is coming from. I think based on like last season, what I observed. My best guess is that it's just the understanding that the offense stinks and the defense, like the weight of the defense having to be perfect just became too much. I don't know if he's reading too much of his own clips or people criticizing him on social media. Sometimes guys really struggle with that. I've had struggles with that in my life and career. So you know, I don't know if that's a part of it. I need to ask him that as well. This is a great dog as well as this is a great point. This is the end, fellas. That's right. That's right, big dog. This is the end. Ricardo says Jones is a backup at best. Let's see. Iconic says, Pat, do you still believe Maris statement now? I think Joe Shane should have brought in a quarterback that can really challenge Jones. Table is losing control over the team and the offense is still struggling. I still think everyone could get fired if this keeps going as bad as it is right now. John says, hey, Pat, received the estate 98 coffee. Thanks a lot for it. You're welcome, John. And thanks for participating in our estate 98 trivia. I haven't dropped the trivia question yet tonight, but we will get to that. Thanks for the reminder. He says, as for banks, was it able or Bowen who benched him? Is there any indication that Daniel Jones is getting benched? Definitely I think on the horizon, injury guarantee, benching will happen. That's why clearly Adam Schefter keeps reminding people of it and obviously with them two and six and what they look like now as a team, I think it's only a matter of time. As far as banks, was it stable or Bowen, you know, a benching a player like that is the head coach. Here's actually, I'll read you guys the full exchange of what banks said. So banks was asked what table told him, he said, I think he said I missed tackles, I guess. So was he, were you officially benched? Bank said, they really didn't tell me what was going on. I got to stay ready, I guess. Then somebody asked, was the Naji Harris jump play when he jumped over banks? Was that a play that coach didn't like? Banks said, yeah. What did banks see on that play? He said, he was running downhill. That's how I can describe it. I asked him, did you understand the decision to bench you? And Deontay said, I just played football, if that's what they wanted to do, that's what they did. He was asked, did you think you were going back in? He said, I didn't know they were going to, I didn't know they were going to do it until they said who was up. So, no, so he was told, he was told, somebody asked, did they tell you you were going out? And he said, I didn't know they were going to do it until they said who was up. Meaning, no one said you're a bench, they just said, here's the guys on the field, the next drive, and it turned out he wasn't one of them anymore. And then he was asked, did you think you would go back in the game? And he said, I never even knew it was a question they would take me out. How was he handling it mentally? He said, I'm actually all right, I'll be cool. What were conversations with coaches like after the game? He said, just, they took me out because I missed tackles. I said, it sounds like you're saying that they saw technical problems in your tackling, not necessarily effort. He said, yeah, but technique and effort with tackling, it's all rolled into one. So he takes accountability for all of it. So that's the, you know, that's the full picture of kind of how he processed it tonight. John, thanks for this super chat there. All right, let's see. Get back in the queue. Thank you all for being here. We're pushing 2 AM Eastern time still of 100 people in the chat. You guys are die-hards. Let's see, collusion says it's frustrating. We have to say that Daniel is a scapegoat. We've had enough scapegoats with him to start in quarterback, but fair is fair. Dable's offense has been awful and undisciplined. Yeah, tonight, the biggest culprit was they kept having holding penalties, a legal man downfield, a legal procedure, guys lined up in the wrong spot, right? Elias says how frustrated his neighbors as he man it himself, the team, everything. He looked very upset on the sideline. You know, I did not talk to neighbors after the game because I was zeroed in on Jones and the defense. I'm waiting to see the quotes that come in from Malik from this game. I do think based on what I was watching from him on the field, it felt like today's frustration was channeled more on himself. That is what I felt like I observed with Malik. The saga says the broadcast did say banks was benched. My girlfriend who knows nothing told me about it when I came back into the room. Yeah, no, they knew that he was out of the game eventually, but they knew nothing about the process of how it got to that point, what happened on the sideline. I mean, you literally have a sideline reporter. Your job is to probably know when the best player on the Giants who was also the biggest person on their sideline is screaming at his teammates. That's probably a helpful thing to report. But yes, obviously they eventually did know and notice that a number one pick was pulled off the field. Joey B. Comedy. Joe, by the way, thank you so much. Joe was kind enough along with some other fans and some friends of mine to show up last night at our first talking ball with Pat Leonard live meetup at City Works here in Pittsburgh. It was a lot of fun and great time and Joe obviously has been a supporter since day one, a loyal subscriber here on the PL NFL YouTube channel and can't thank you enough, Joe. So Joe checks in with the $10 Super Chat. He says, Pat, why won't they just fire people already? The only bright spot is Dexter on this team at season's end. What do they do with Daniel Jones? Who do they draft or go get enough is enough? I say we boycott a game. Yeah, I'm very interested to see what the stands look like for this Washington game on Sunday. I mean, you got Daniel Jones still starting a lot of the fan bases discussed with that. You have the Giants clearly a team that is, I mean, I picked them to win four games. I think I'm probably going to be either dead on or a little too high, to be honest with you, based on what I'm watching, we'll see. But I'm curious, Joe. I mean, I'm very curious if fans are going to stop coming. It's still pretty early, but obviously they're out of it, they're cooked. Why won't they just fire people? Joe, to me, at this point, it seems like they're just trying to get to the end of the season based on what John said, what Maris said. It's so bad here. I mean, it's impossible for me to believe that they won't fire at least the coach and possibly the GM too. Yeah, Dex, the only true bright spot with Andrew Hurt. What do they do with Daniel Jones at the end of the season? They try to trade them to a team like to tighten this stand out to me, but try to trade them, try to offload them. That's what I think. Who do they draft or go yet? I don't know enough about those guys yet as far as the draft and who they'll be chasing, who they prioritize. I mean, will they draft the Shudur Sanders? I would say this. At this point, don't rule anybody out. At this point, you cannot rule anybody out. I know Shudur and things that he said, how he's conduct himself and Deon being his dad feels like he's not necessarily the type of guy or type of leader and player that the Giants would go for, but if guys talented, they're going to need good players because they don't have enough good players, so keep that in mind. Let's see. Your other question was, oh, boy, caught a game. Yeah, very interested to see what happens there. Let's see. Joe says, didn't you have a beard last night at the talking ball meetup? I did. I did. But to be honest, Joe, I would have shaved it, but I get a five o'clock shadow, man. I grow up back fast. So if I shave on a Saturday morning or if I shaved on a Sunday morning and I had Monday night football and then I'm shaving again on Monday afternoon after shaving Sunday morning, then my skin gets irritated, you know, so I just had to scruff it out for the talking ball meetup. Simeon says, Dave all knows how to be as depressed when he doesn't want to answer a question. And that's why I'm here to tell you my true thoughts and interpretation of what he's actually saying and what he needs. Ricardo says, Pat, they're going to move on and rightfully so a two says, the amount of delusional support Jones has gotten should be studied by science. Mass delusion is a dangerous thing. Ricardo says, before we crowd neighbors as the next Chris Carter, let's rethink it. He drops too many passes. Yeah, rough game from him. Ricardo says, Dave will has definitely taken a step back this year. How about last year when, when ton of his staff just left because they didn't want to work here anymore? Barbara says, Pat, it's depressing watching this team fail miserably week after week. I know Dee Grant says, can't blame it all on Dave will because the Giants offense lacks talent. Hunter says, the only thing we have going for us is a really smart defensive minded coach would love to have Dexter Oh, so you think these are players, a defensive coach would love to have Dexter cave on burns, okay, too bad. We probably keep Brian Dable as you're saying, you'd like to have a defensive head coach, okay. Barbara says, Joe Shane is failing with the draft picks. He's got to take responsibility for once a two says, I feel bad for Evan Neal, at least to give the kid a chance to improve its torture for him at this point. Yeah, how about them signing some, some random guy named Chris Hubbard off the street? Instead of working Evan Neal on the left side, giving him a chance and something like that, you just go right to some guy who you got, you know, off the San Francisco 49ers practice squad. I mean, what a pick, what a number seven overall pick. Hunter says, I think Shane bought himself. 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Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. All the time with the draft this year, yeah, I disagree. Tommy, health and wealth to all, what's up, Tommy, great to see you. Dee Grant says they should bring back Bella, check. Tommy says bring Bill back home, Sanders' father and son's combo, Robert Salas, having trouble following that one, Tommy, sorry. Barbara says, Pat, I hear you. I'm tired of hearing Joe Shane and his nonsense double talk, he's not the Giants type. I agree with that, Barbara, that is a very astute observation by not being the Giants type in that regard, unless they enable it and they back it, and therefore it becomes their type, which is what they've done, that's the worst part. Macho says, Mara gave a vote, by the way, Evan Neal, you know, might as well give the kid a fresh start somewhere if you're not going to play him and you have no interest in playing him. I mean, don't just keep them buried on the back end because you want to protect your own hide. Mara gave a vote of confidence to Ben McAdoo and Joe Judge and both were fired two weeks later, so not putting too much stock in that, says Macho. Agree. Ricardo says the Giants should have three more wins, what about the roughing the kicker call? I don't really necessarily agree on this, should have more three wins part, I know what you're saying that they've had some close games that they could have pulled out, but they're a two and 16 because they're a team that doesn't pull out those games. The roughing the punter call, I could have seen that going either way, honestly, Ricardo, I thought he was kind of blocked into him and felt under him instead of like into him necessarily, but he did make contact with his plant leg and bottom leg. I almost thought it was like on the follow through and viewed as inadvertent and part of the block by the official, but certainly if they had blown the whistle, I wouldn't have gone. Oh my God, how did they call that? It was kind of a bang, bang play. Barbara says this is the same as last year when the stupid irrelevant wins came, yes. John says the issue with Daniel Jones is the same thing that has plagued him since his due day. Slow processing. He hasn't gotten better and is not going to improve now. Yes, slow processing indeed. Tony says this has been a tough night to be a New York fan, Giantsy Yankees go down shaking my head. Diggie says, Pat, can you say who it is in the organization that you believe wants to blame all on Jones so they can avoid accountability themselves? Diggie, I guess my point would be, my best way I can answer that is I think it would be the people who would get the blame if Jones didn't, I hope that answers your question. Barbara says, Hyatt is a bust, banks is on his way there, neighbors not equating to wins. Diggie says I would rather trade banks than Ozilari, interesting. Yeah, but they don't have any quarters, right? This is why this is a total disaster. You see where we're at now, but, you know, like, this is why all these, all these kind of revolving doors, it's like, hey, what's behind door number two? And it's not what you wanted to see, right? Hunter says, Patriots got a sixth for Josh Uche as he's, would he, if he would take like a sixth rounder to offload him, I would rather keep him. Dave says, the Panthers are looking for a quarterback to need to lose that game. That's what I mean though. So yeah, so David saying, like, tank and lose a game like that, but, you know, see, I already think there's firing is coming. If they lose to the Panthers, you know, we're talking about bi-week fireings, possibly, right? I mean, how could you not? Barbara says she ain't got nothing for Barkley McKinney or love. Something is wrong. Exactly. Yes, Barbara. Barbara's on point tonight. JJ McCarthy's head and shoulders better than Alarra says Barbara and they passed on him. Paying Jones will set you guys back says nice. Macho says, can I explain why Isaiah Simmons doesn't get used as much as he should. First athlete on defense, still a high ceiling. I think it's because they don't have enough creative ways to use him because you do have to be creative as a play call or to use him and they just haven't shown the same level of creativity that Martin Dale had been able to show. If a team calls and says, here's a three or a four for Slien, I would take it, but I doubt it's that high. So keep him. Yeah, it won't be that high hunter for sure. In fact, the Giants have hurt themselves by not basically there were other times where they could have gotten better value for Slien and now they're not able to do it. Now the value is going to go down that might end up just being like a late round pick swap when all is said and done if they actually trade him. And says, fire sale, trade Jones, one of the Ozilari or Thibodeau, trade banks, trade Slien. Bill says, we're like you, Pat. We don't sugarcoat it. Hell yeah. Luciano says, you think if we stay at pick nine based on previous years and how this franchise operates, we pick a quarterback there or move up, move up. And that's why like trades right now of players would be to get assets to help them move up. Ricardo says neighbors drops way too many passes. I agree. Hunter says, I think all the players in that in this draft has have potential to be good building blocks. I would agree that, you know, some of them do. I would agree with that. Some of them. Diggie says, I don't get it though, Pat, they will and shame seem competent. What is wrong? Is it really them? Their process seems good. Who could do any better with this personnel? What process do you think seems good? Diggie, I think their draft picks are problematic. A lot of their top draft picks don't hit or help the team at all or play or play hard. I think it's not a disciplined team. A lot of penalties. They shoot themselves in the foot. The coaches and offensive coach and their play caller, they don't score points. The general manager has let a lot of good players go and not replace them with good players. The team is worse now since they took over. Those are just my opinions. Any chances we ship Hyatt out, says Hunter? Yeah, I guess you could throw him on that list as well. But he hasn't gotten a lot of opportunities and when he has, has not made the most of them so far. By the way, jail and Hyatt tonight, you ready for this? Jail and Hyatt participation in this game. He was a DNP. Jail and Hyatt drew lock and Trey Hawkins all dressed and did not play. So Hyatt was a full practice participant with that rib injury all week and then did not play in this game. By the way, another Joe Shane draft pick. You're right, Hunter, you didn't see him once tonight. Ricardo says, "Sleaton's time has passed. He won't be a big loss if he's traded." He did have two catches over 35 yards tonight. Iconic said, "If Bill Belichick comes, I don't see Shane staying. I don't think he likes him as a GM, I agree." Diggy says, "The drops have been miserable to see from neighbors. They are consistent and it's a bummer." Jonathan Studios says, "Sign Donald in free agency, two years, two avoidable and trade a top five pick for two future first rounders, have Archie Manning call number one overall pick holder in 2026 and offer three first rounders for Arch Manning rights." Jonathan's got to figure it out. Simeon notes that Daniel Jones would also fit in New Orleans in the same role as Tatum. Oh, Tatum Hill. Ricardo says, "trained for Cooper Rush as a stopgap and draft a quarterback." I like Cooper Rush. Ricardo also could see Daniel Jones in Cleveland, he says. What about the black Brett Farve, James Winston? Benny Fowler, my friend and the Super Bowl champion former NFL wide receiver. We did a podcast. It's up on my YouTube channel now, Peele on NFL and we recaped, we gave, we do that first out with Benny Fowler every week and he played with James, he was in New Orleans with him during the pandemic season 2020 and Benny said that James Winston gets to the building at 5 a.m. every day and in addition to his talent, has a great work ethic and he was very happy for him but the best thing Benny said was he called him the black Brett Farve. I thought that was excellent. DeGrants says, "I wonder what Eli Manning thinks of Daniel Jones now. Eli's always been supportive of Daniel but yeah, he's always been supportive of Daniel. I think he knows how it goes in New York as well. He just was able to help dig himself out of it, obviously with the help of a phenomenal defense and a good coach. Let's see, Tim Fritt says, "Diante Banks is like Eli Apple 2.0, who that would be bad." But Gianna says, "You think Bill Belichick is commenting on things regarding the Giants as an I could do better than them card?" Yeah, I think it's also, to me, it seems reflective of the fact that he doesn't intend to come here because I don't think he would be, I don't think he would be saying all of those critical things publicly in order for the Giants to say, "Hey, you're right. You can do better. Why don't you take this job and be our coach?" I think if he's dumping on them and criticizing them that harshly, the Giants are the kind of place that is going to say, "Well, you're not going to be our coach then." And I think that's Belichick announcing if you guys are going to be, if this is how you operate, then I don't want to be a part of it anyway. That's how I view it. But that's just, I'm not talking to him about it, I'm just saying that's how I view it. John says, "I think the Aunty Banks misses Wink Martindale. Wink picked him specifically for his defense and he's not as comfortable under the new DC." Well, Wink, Jerome Henderson, they were a part of that process. Joe Shane obviously drafted the player, so that was Joe Shane's pick. But yeah, playing press man, Banks was comfortable playing press man, comfortable in that defense, had a lot of confidence, played with a lot of confidence, a lot of swagger. I do think that this defense is not as good as last year's defense. And I do think that Banks misses that scheme. I do agree with that. Mike says Denver is winning a lot with Bo Nix. Yeah, another Giants pass on several quarterbacks. Vish says, "Hi Pat, good day. Please tell Mr. Marrow to let the Giants tank and get a Sandrace award and also to Clean House and get Belichick. You got it, Vish. Tell him it's time to be real with Giants fans. Thank you for that, Vish. John says, "Neighbors is talented. That's a given, but he needs to get with the program as in lining up his illegal formation." That was like his fifth one already on the season. Yeah, he doesn't know where to line up. Some of these are too often, I would say. "When Daniel Jones calls alerts, neighbors is the only one that doesn't respond to it," says John. Vish says, "When you see Debo, ask him again about his job security," again. John wants to camward. Marlin says, "It's already apparent the team has come apart at the seams. Players are barking at each other in public view. Debo has already lost the team. From player comments, they disrespect the coach." Marlin, I agree. Patrick says, "Don't you have Sanders. He seems like a me guy. If you think Banks is bad right now, you're going to have a mutiny on your hands, too much of a selfish person." Something you should know and notice about Joe Shane is he doesn't mind taking guys with character flags and their scouting reports, so that would put a guy like Shador on the Giants radar, in my opinion, with Joe Shane as GM. All right, real quick here, because I was waiting for some of the extra stats to come in postgame to have something unique as the estate 98 Giants trivia of the game, but I'm going to drop one that I had on my mind coming out of the game here. For those of you who are not aware of how we do this, the estate 98 Giants trivia, I'm going to ask you a trivia question related to Giants football, and you are going to put your answer in the queue, so in the comment section. So the second I asked this question, your job is to put the answer in the comment section. The first person who gets the answer correct in the comments will win a bottle, a free bottle of estate 98 coffee. So here's the question. After this loss, what is Daniel Jones' record in night games in his career? After this loss to the Pittsburgh Steelers, what is Daniel Jones' record in night games in his career? That is your estate 98 Giants trivia question of the evening. Iconic says, "Pat, do you think Shane will use that, they will put players in the doghouse that was picked in the first round, waste of draft capital?" I mean, I think it's on the coach to have to try to hold people accountable. I think what you would use against Abel would be that he clearly should have put Deontay Banks in the doghouse prior to this game, and he didn't. John says, "Pat, is Anthony Johnson, is Anthony Johnson Jr. on the practice squad or active roster? I don't understand why they signed these guys to not play them. He's a decent coverage safety, but a sure tackler when we need that." He actually played in this game. He played eight defensive, no, eight special team snaps. So he's on the active roster. He played eight special team snaps, but none on defense. Mike says, "Evan Niel needs to be traded facts." Joe says, "Giants won't go after Shador. We all know why. Do you think they'd actually give Bill a shot at coach?" Looks to me like the Belichick ship has sailed. I think you're either talking Dallas or Philly for him. Right now it's looking more like Dallas. Mike says, "We have no corners, no quarterback, Beto line, still. We have a ton of holes on the roster." And so so many questions with this team, not enough answers. JDJ says, "Dan Pat, you're still up. Giants are keeping everyone up at night. That's right." You know what it is? Feeling great in this salaretta fit. Love these shirts with the accent buttons. And I'm just feeling it right now, feeling good. Like I said, guys, I had a great meetup last night, fan meetup at City Works here in Pittsburgh. Joe was there as well as some other fans and friends of mine. Maybe going to try to do a talking ball meetup in Jersey at some point or in New York and get it rolling, have the community kind of come out, maybe do a live episode from one of those meetups. That would be fun, right? Let me check what were the answers there. All right. So looks like the accurate answer to Daniel Jones' night game record. The first correct answer comes from Michael Knight, one and 16 is Daniel Jones' record in his career in night games, one and 16. So that is Daniel Jones' record in 17 night games that he has played in his NFL career. So because of that, Michael, you win a free bottle of a state 98 coffee. Michael, direct message me on Instagram. The handle is PL on NFL. Send me a message on Instagram with your address or PO box wherever you want me to send it. And I will have a bottle of a state 98 coffee shipped out to you. Congrats on getting that record correct. And good job by everybody there. It seemed like all of you were kind of pretty close to on the nose there. And Michael just happened to be the one to get it right on the button first. Let's see. John says at this point, I just want the general manager, whoever it might be, to build either the offense first or the defense first. Trying to do both is not working clearly, definitely need more speed and linebackers. Yeah, John, I hear that. I think also not just building a side of the ball to be rock solid, but also, now listen, I know that you don't want to just rebuild and not compete, right? That's too tough to stomach. And you don't want to always try to win when you know that you have too many holes and you're setting expectations that aren't realistic. But what the Giants always are getting in trouble with is they're always saying that they're going to build it the right way. And then they start to fall in love with guys. They add to the team and they're, and they talk about their process being great. And they start to forget that they're rebuilding. And there's suddenly they have, think of a line drawn in the sand, they have one foot on either side of the line, one foot on the rebuilt side, one foot on the wind now side. And they get caught in the middle. And so they end up with holes and a roster and some guys who look like they could be a part of a winning team, but there's not enough around them to support them. And then they're not developing properly because they don't have enough support. And then the team doesn't win because it's not disciplined or coached well, then it all caves it, right? So that's kind of the cycle that they're in right now. Well, anyone else not care about the games anymore? That's a great question. To be honest, Wellvin, you know, I think it's very difficult to put any faith in this organization and in this team and in watching these games at this point. I agree with that. Really, I'm very curious to see what the attendance looks like for this Washington game because the fact is that the last home game against the Eagles. There were plenty of empty seats up top in the nosebleeds, more so than there had been in previous games. And then in the lower bowl, a lot of the, a lot of the stands were filled with Eagles green. If Eagles fans didn't come and drove to that game, I think the stadium might have been pretty empty. Luciano says picking one day on the draft while passing on George Pickens is mind blowing. Luciano. Macho says Pat wasn't banks one of the higher rated corners in the league at the end of his rookie season. He locked it down. Is this regression solely due to Winx scheme? I think it's weighted. I think he's, this is just me projecting based on what I know what happened last year with the defense and the guys, but I think it's very difficult for them and a young player like him who's still working on developing to, you know, early on in the season, you're playing hard, you're fighting hard and then, you know, you have a rough game against Cleveland like he did and fingers get pointed at you and you know, you have to play better, but the offense just doesn't score any damn points. And so I think it's a combination of this scheme is not as friendly for him. Pressman under Wink and the pressure he was able to bring, I mean, Wink Martindale lights out the defensive coordinator. They were tied for the league lead in takeaways last year. The Giants secondary still does not have an interception this season now eight games into this year. Spanish Harlem says salute PL. Thank you, Spanish. Same to you. Mike says neighbors needs to lock in more can't be going to Traverse Scott concerts midweek than committing penalties. John says if the Giants are going to coach a coach, they need to coach from the Lions. Their offense is clicking like Matt and well said, John, and that's Benny said on our podcast that if he's the Lions, he's paying Ben Johnson like a head coach to just remain as their offensive coordinator to help golf and help the team and keep winning. Mike, by the way, what you said about neighbors there, this is why I pointed out during the week, this is why that kid and that young man can't sit there after last week's game and say I was open, right, because now after this game, was there anyone else saying, hey, I did my job, but Malik was dropping passes and aligned up wrong, right? No, there was no one saying that. So that's the lesson. You can't have that because the next week, you could end up being the guy who doesn't play well. Joey B says, Pat, you should do lives on Saturday night before home games and invite a player or a colleague to co-host it and stream it and have a live audience. Not a bad idea, Joey B, not a bad idea. I don't hate that idea. Michael says, thanks. Thank you, Michael. Way to get that right. JD J says, do you think Dave on chain get two more years considering whichever rookie quarterback they select will need time to develop? No, I think they will have a new head coach next season and maybe a new GM. I don't know about the GM, I do think they'll have a new head coach. We'll see about the overall thing. Mike says, I think our problem was after 2022, instead of trying to rebuild, we continued with a flawed roster trying to rebuild and win at the same time. Exactly Mike, exactly. And it all goes back to John Maris saying, we're back. Mike says, I think Joe and Brian are cooked. So do I. Joey B says, let me co-host. You can see I can work. You see I could work at it after hanging out last night. Maybe, maybe we'll do that one time. John says, hey Pat, my shift is finally over going to head home. Have a good night. Thanks for the live stream. John, thanks for being here, man. Really appreciate you checking in, watching, participating. Oh, oh, Joe says, you know I can work a room. Oh, we definitely know you can work a room, but yeah, John, thanks so much. And thank you everybody who tuned in, especially to D kit, Elias, Daniel, Hunter, Lane, Hunter again, Patrick, Patrick, John, Joey B. All you guys who purchased those super chats and those super stickers supporting the channel really appreciate it. Also remember, please support our sponsors. That is the best way to support the channel. If you like this podcast, these sponsors make it possible. And I would really appreciate it if you guys tried out my bookie, Boom Chaga, and estate 98 at least once. And that includes using these codes to get special deals. So my bookie dot ag rolling out the red carpet for sports betters 10th year anniversary. My bookie plus the loyalty rewards program. If you use my promo code, Pats picks at the link in all my social media profiles, you'll get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more. All the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. I am eight and two against the spread with my special Pats picks every week. I usually do through a week. I did four this week and ended up three and one also cooking the last three weeks overall with a record of 30, 14 and one after splitting eight and eight here in week eight. So feeling great about that. My bookie make this football season a winning season with my bookie this season and with talking ball with Pat Leonard, but anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie also brought to you by Boom Chaga mushroom super drink, a natural extract loaded with anti inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. 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Go to estate98.com/talkingball to get a special buy one, get one free deal. JDJ says the Giants problems all started when get them in refused to answer the phone on draft day. Man, oh man, what a story that was not taking calls when you're on the clock at 2 about the draft or running back. Joey B says good night bro, save travels home. Thank you for a good time last night at city works. That was the best part of this trip because damn sure it wasn't the game. Get some talking ball t-shirts made. I am doing that. I'm in the process of getting that swag made and looking forward to rocking it myself, but also having you guys rock the talking ball merch because I know we're going to continue to grow this community and I appreciate all of you, including you Joe. Nambo says, I think Wink was more of a natural leader than Debo, I agree with that. I think Debo is struggling in that department and I think losing Martindale overall was a bad thing for the Giants organization. There were plenty of people in the Giants organization who were upset that he was gone and did not want to see that happen, but the dynamic was unsustainable and you're seeing why Martindale and other coaches left last year because look at the product you see on the field. Look at how bad it is. Look at how few answers they have. Mike says, yep, Debo is in over his head. And there, thank you so much for being here tonight, guys. We wrap at 2.30 a.m. and we're still close to 100 viewers. You guys are diehards for the Giants, diehards for the NFL, diehards for the talking ball with Pat Leonard Postgame live here from AcraJur Stadium in Pittsburgh. Thank you so much for being here. If you're listening on Apple or Spotify on the Believe Network, thank you for subscribing on the audio podcast. Please come join us next time on the YouTube channel, P.L. on the NFL. Guys, while you're live here, before we hang up and we end this, hit that like button one more time while we are live. It really helps the algorithm generate momentum for the kind of connectivity we have with the fan base and with people who aren't yet subscribed to the channel, but who are going to find out about us soon enough. Mike Ross says, "Thanks, Pat. You're the best." Obama says, "Thanks, Pat. Keep it up." Thank you all for always making these great chats. Hit those like buttons one more time and I'll see you next time on Talking Ball Live. Remember to come this week on the New York Daily News website and on the Talking Ball with Pat Leonard podcast. Like I said, there's a good pod up now on my channel. It's first down with Benny Fowler talking about James Winston, the black red bar, Washington and Jaden Daniels and that Hail Mary. That's obviously pertinent, especially with them coming up back to MetLife Stadium to face the Giants in an NFC East game. More around the league, shout out to Saequan Barkley, Evan Engrove, Kaleef Raymond and much more. This is as Luciano calls me, Pat the Tank signing off from Pittsburgh. See you guys back from North Jersey this week. When you need meal time inspiration, it's worth shopping king supers for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouth-watering meals and no matter what tasty choice you make, you'll enjoy our everyday low prices plus extra ways to save like digital coupons worth over $600 each week and up to $1 off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings. Being Supers, fresh for everyone, fuel restrictions apply. I'm Kosey. I have zero blisters on my toes, blisters. And that's because I wear bombis. The softest sucks, underwear and t-shirts that give back. One purchased equals one donated. Now go to bombis.com/listen and use code "listen" for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash "listen" and use code "listen" at checkout. With Robinhood Gold, you don't need a silver spoon to eat up the financial favors of the 1%. Robinhood Gold allows the resourceful individual to earn the very liberal rate of 4.5% APY on uninvested cash, receive unlimited 1% deposit bonuses and be rewarded with the handsome 3% retirement boost on an IRA account. Get the privileges of the high net worth for any net worth for just $5 a month. Sign up at robinhood.com/gold. Terms apply for product specific disclosures. Visit robinhood.com/gold. Investing involves risk. Great make change. Gold membership is offered by Robinhood Gold, L.L.T. Bingo. All right, Phil. We're recording now, so it's live. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son, and I mean, come on, man. Just go. This isn't CBS. All right. Be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims Complete podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you'd like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son, this will be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Ditto. Father, son, dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And, you know, hey, it's an extension of what we did, right, growing up. I was able to watch my father play football, then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And, you know, hey, sometimes we're full of it, and sometimes we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do. You, you little spotty, but you know, you're, you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this and it's been awesome. Sims Complete. Check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. See you. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. Bye. (crowd cheering) [BLANK_AUDIO]
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at Pittsburgh's Acrisure Stadium to break down their 26-18 Monday Night Football loss to the Steelers. He goes over Dexter Lawrence's eruption on the sideline, Deonte Banks' benching, Brian Daboll diming out Daniel Jones for not shifting help over to block TJ Watt before the strip sack, and much more.