Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

First Down with Bennie Fowler: 'The Black Brett Favre,' Washington's Hail Mary and a special Denver day

Duration:: 47m
Broadcast on:: 28 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

Super Bowl champion former NFL receiver Bennie Fowler joins New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard to break down a wild NFL Week 8, including Jameis Winston's and the Browns' upset of the Baltimore Ravens, Jayden Daniels' incredible game-winning Hail Mary to Noah Brown for Washington and much more @Bleav on Monday, Oct. 28, 2024. Fowler and Leonard also give shoutouts to the Lions' Kalif Raymond, the Jaguars' Evan Engram and the Eagles' Saquon Barkley. And they preview Monday Night Football's matchup of the Giants and Steelers. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.

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I think any time you can get recognized by your former team and a team that you had some success with and a team that really gave me my first shot in NFL, it always feels good and then it happened to be against a team that we won the Super Bowl against and the Broncos won. So it was an incredible experience, super honored to just be a part of anything that the Broncos are doing and especially on a game day and a win. So being out there was awesome seeing some of my former teammates Sean being one of my former coaches, man, she wants to be in one of my former coaches, getting a chance to talk to them, give them a hug, it was an awesome opportunity, so I really appreciate it. Now that's awesome, Benny, the Broncos are starting to look frisky, five and three bow nicks, 284 and three touchdowns in this game. I mean, it's do you take with a grain of salt, a result like this because the Panthers are horrendous or am I right to say that Denver's picking up a little steam here? Well, I think both things can be true, Denver is picking up some steam, bow is starting to play a lot better and I think one of the things that you love to see as a Broncos fan is that you're beating the teams that you're supposed to be and they were supposed to be Carolina, bow played really well, he spread the ball around, he used his leg, so we are starting to see him continue to grow as a quarterback and at the future of this franchise so it's great to see bow do that, it's great to see the Broncos get a win, it's great to see the defense continue to play well, yeah, Carolina isn't good, but we'll take the win at the end of the day, now the Broncos have a great test in Baltimore coming up which is not going to be easy at all and Baltimore is going to be pissed off because they let one slip away to the Browns. No doubt, no doubt well said. So I have to jump right into the full week picture obviously starting with the Hail Mary Washington winning on the last minute play, 52 yard touchdown pass from Jaden Daniels to Noah Brown on this Hail Mary, Tyreach Stevenson, the Chicago Bears corner waving to the crowd telling everyone to go home before the play starts, you can see the fans pointing, telling him to turn around, then he, as a former player, could you just walk me through your view of that play, what amazed you, what surprised you and what you thought of the execution on those sides? Yeah I think what surprised me about the play was the fact that Chicago only rushed four, you know, Jaden Daniels, I think he ran around for about 13 seconds before he actually threw the ball, he had to get all those receivers down there, so that's what surprised me number one is that they didn't just bring one extra rusher in terms of just trying to get Jaden to throw the ball a little bit earlier. I think also Tyreach Stevenson, it is going to be a long week for him, Jaden, I mean it's already all over social media, they're talking about it all through SportsCenter, it is going to be a long week and people are giving him Hail on social media, which they should, because I don't actually mind him talking trash to the crowd, and he actually gets over there in plenty of time, but then for you to tip the ball is where it is bad, like I don't know what his actual responsibilities were, but somebody is actually supposed to be in the back where Noah Brown was, you know, you're supposed to have a couple people in the front, a couple people in the middle and a couple people in the back, you match it as the offense and that's, you know, offense tries to create a little bit of a triangle, they want to tip person, they want somebody in the middle and they want somebody in the back, you're supposed to have a defender there as well, and yeah, they are going to be giving him Hail, and it is going to be in the Monday morning meeting, maybe Tuesday morning meeting, Wednesday morning meeting, and it's going to be across, it's going to be across on Fridays, they have and show the top plays from across the league of things that you don't want to happen, and he will be on that for the years to come. And actually, interestingly enough, a young player making a mistake, the guy who was plastered to Noah Brown, who came off of him in the back, was actually Kevin Bayard, like a veteran, you know, coming up to the ball there, so, you know, letdowns from vets as well as youngsters, and then Zach Eric, Zach Eric said he didn't get the ball, he didn't think he touched it. I really, I'm curious to see if he got any piece, because you're right, Stevenson got it and that makes him the ultimate goat. But from an execution standpoint, like you said, with the triangle there, and the way that hurts, you know, a basketball player as well basically makes that play, it's like almost like a tip, tip drill rebound, that was fascinating, just one of those plays that makes you feel like it is Washington's year, then he did another thing about this. Are you impressed at all that Daniels played in this game with this rib injury? I mean, I know guys are playing hurdle over the league, so I don't mean to say other guys aren't, but I don't know, I just, I don't know if it was wise going into the game, I'm thinking to myself, should they really be risking this, they got a division game next week against the Giants, but I would imagine in a locker room that that builds some, some clout. For sure, I think it builds some clout and I would be curious to see what type of injury it was, because when I look at the game the previous week, it didn't look like a crazy injury in terms of him taking a huge hit. And you know, when he goes to grab his, his rib, you know, he didn't look like he took a, a bad hit. So, you know, was it a strange muscle on that side, I don't know if he got hit the previous play before in the rib, but if he's able to throw the ball in what they said, you know, he was able to practice on Friday and Saturday, then go out there. I mean, he's your Superman right now, the team believes in him. And then if you know, he can't, he can't play to the best of his ability in the first quarter, you know, you have a, a backup in Marcus Mariano, who played well the previous week. So, I think you still go out there because you're trying to play to win every game. And right now, they have caught lightning in a bottle and you don't want to just put an incredible player like Jaden on the sideline when you have all this momentum going into or in a season like this, because seasons like this, especially as a rookie, don't just come along. And the more reps that he can get right now, the better off he'll be later on in December and in January, because right now it looks like they're going to be making the playoffs. I mean, the first team in the division right now, or number one team in the division right now. So, no, I wouldn't have sat him at all. That's a really good point about keeping that momentum going and keeping it on the field, especially as a rookie, really good insight there. Yeah. And the NFC East now starting to get a fuller and clearer picture here. You and I sitting here on Monday morning, I'm in a hotel room in Pittsburgh about to cover Mr. Unlimited against the Giants. And as we sit here now, Mr. Limited, Mr. Limited, Mr. Very Limited. And Washington six and two Philadelphia Eagles now with three straight wins at five and two. The Dallas Cowboys showing us they are who a lot of people thought they were at three and four and the Giants two and five going into this. So definitely close to not only Washington, but maybe Washington and Philly starting to pull away a little bit in this division. So yeah, really interesting picture there. You mentioned right off the bat, you alluded to the Browns win and the upset over the Ravens. Benny. I don't know if I've ever seen a bigger example of a team letting out a sigh of relief that a player wasn't on the field. Watson being gone and James is out there 27 of 41, 334 three touchdowns. And just listen to these receiver numbers, Benny, Cedric Tillman seven for 99 and two touchdowns, Elijah Moore eight for 85, Jerry Judy five for 79, David and Joku five for 61 and a touchdown. I'm trying to think of another scenario that's been like this recently. It's just so stark and startling to me that these players kind of stomached the first what seven weeks and only to get to this place where they knew probably behind the scenes this whole time that it would look a lot better if they had somebody else under the center and they just had to wait it out. I mean, Benny, as a player, your careers are not long as NFL players like, how do you not buck? How do you not raise hell, you know, in week three, when Watson can't complete a pass and your team hasn't scored 20 points until now, how do players just wait it out because they're right now, even after this win, I think they're, I don't know, what are they, two and six, two and five, it just amazes me that the Browns play, yeah, two and six. It just amazes me that the Browns players were kind of able to wait this out with Watson because in practice, it had to be so obvious to them and to the coaches who could do it and who couldn't, right? Yeah, I think, well, one of the tough things about being in the NFL is that these are your team base and you don't just want to go throw them under the bus. Number one, these are people that you see every day. This isn't, you know, a virtual work environment. You see these people all the time and you don't want to just try to embarrass your teammates just because number one, the player behind them is a lot better, but you don't want to embarrass them. Number one, number two, he's got a guaranteed contract. Those players in the locker room understand, hey, this guy's got all guaranteed money. The owner's going to want to see him play and that it just is what it is. And then also the reason why they're not bringing up and creating a lot of hell is because they're getting paid too, you know, the checks are clear and so it's all good. They're not losing their job. Now moving on to, to Jamis, Winston, what a great showing and outing for him. Jamis is a national treasure in terms of the interviews and the content he gives us. Number one, Jess, I play with Jamis in 2020 and he is the Black fret far. I mean, Jamis is a gun slinger. He will throw that ball and he will go into the huddle and he's going to let you know, like, hey, everybody's going to touch this rock today. And you guys have to say that. I think, oh, yeah, everybody's going to, I mean, you saw the way he spread the ball around, but if you even look back to think about his years in Tampa, yes, he was turning the ball over, but Mike Evans, what his first six seasons of his career were with Jamis Winston, those thousand-yard seasons and to get Mike to that, that streak of 10, one thousand-yard seasons that started with Jamis Winston and Jamis Winston finding him and Jamis Winston has always been an incredible player. You know, this is a Heisman winner, it's a number one overall draft pick. So, you know, yes, Jamis, you know, he had to work on his turnovers and he still has to continue to work on, you know, sometimes he will throw some questionable passes, but you cannot question his arm talent and you cannot question his love for the game and you cannot question his preparation, he, when I play with him in New Orleans, he was in there at the same time Drew Brees was and he was leaving after Drew. Jamis loves football and he wants to continue to be a great player and I'm very happy for him and I'm very happy for the way that he showed out and I know those receivers and tight ends and running backs are happy because that ball will be spread to everybody and sometimes he's just going to, he's going to let you know in the heart of like, hey, run this and he's going to throw the ball up. You know, Jamis has that type of confidence and as you can see, you know, he gives the pre-game speeches even though he's not starting quarterback before, so Jamis, he's just one of the most unique guys in the NFL and happy to see his success. Yeah, no, it's good to see for him personally and there are real football team with him at quarterback now. I mean, it's very interesting, obviously, you know, some holes on a roster like everything everybody else, but, you know, they've got a good defensive coordinator. I think Stefanzky is a pretty good coach. I mean, he gave away play calling, which is an interesting kind of wrinkle to this and to this season, but certainly if they're going to, I'm not saying they're going to repeat beating a team like the Ravens every week, but they're a real team. You know, if you're playing them now, you really have to, to your point, Jamis, if he's on the field, plays will be made, sometimes it'll be his team, sometimes the other team's going to get their hand on the ball, but plays will be made. It will not be playing for the ball game. No, he will not be holding onto the ball. Jamis is going to let that ball fly. Let it rip. Yeah. So that brings me to, so I know every week when we talk, I know you love to say shout out to certain people who stood out to you. So I figured we should start making this a segment, the shout out segment, and so let's put Jamis in the shout outs right off the bat. Shout out to Jamis Winston. Yeah. Benny, I also wanted to give a shout out to Kaleef Raymond of the Detroit Lions, 500 turns 190 yards and a touchdown, two catches, 14 yards and a touchdown. I believe you play with him in both Denver and New York, maybe briefly we're on the roster at the same time, holy cross product now shining in Detroit, impressive day for Kaleef. Yeah, big shout out to Kaleef, one of the most genuine, hardworking and humble people that I've ever met. Got a chance to meet him in Denver. He had a great training camp, but he just didn't make the roster in a practice squad. He went down. He went to a different, a couple of different teams and continued to progress throughout his career. And the day I actually signed with the Giants, he actually signed with the Giants. And then I think they, I believe they cut him the next day and then they signed Corey Coleman, but Kaleef, just steady, consistent, always does his job, doesn't complain super hardworking and has gotten his chance in Detroit over the last couple of years. What's first team all pro in terms of special teams, I believe either last year or the year before will continue to make plays and is an integral part of that team. And when you think about a complete team, you think about a team that can win the Super Bowl, which I was able to be a part of a Super Bowl winning team. Everybody has a role in that team and everybody has different moments throughout that season where they step up and they shine. And this is one of those moments for Kaleef, where James Williams comes out, he's suspended, Kaleef steps in and continues to make a play. But I know that Kaleef is a super important part of that team and that locker room because of the energy that he brings into that locker room and the energy that I know he has as a person. He used to call him Josue in the Giants locker room, but incredible guy, super happy for him. But yeah, shout out to Kaleef in terms of what he was able to do this past Sunday and he will continue to shine. He always stays ready. He's ready for the moment, works a lot on his mind, works a lot on his craft, super happy for him. So shout out to Kaleef Raymond. No doubt, no doubt. Also want to give a shout out, they didn't win the game, but I want to give a shout out to Evan Ingram for a ridiculous touchdown catch at the end of this Jaguar's Green Bay game. Trevor Lawrence just threw it up. I think there were three defenders and Ingram was like, when he made the catch, I believe he was maybe sitting on the shoulders of one of the Packers defensive backs and made like a one handed catch. Haven't talked to him in a while, but having covered him in New York, I know how great it was for him to kind of find greener pastures and down there in Florida. And I know he's been banged up a little bit here. So I was just really happy to see him make that kind of play and thrive because he was an absolute great athlete. When you, yeah, top 10 athletes that I've played with and I play with a lot of great athletes in NFL and just in my life, but definitely top 10 athletes. But you want to talk about somebody who gets a fresh start from New York and then you can actually see his real talent, just no looking no further than everything or you want to Jacksonville on a one year deal, playing incredible, and then gets the big deal. But that's somebody who had a fresh start, gets around some, I wouldn't say better talent, but just a better opportunity and a better situation for him to thrive and look what he's able to do. His talent is able, you're able to see his talent every Sunday. You're able to see a little bit in New York, but not at a consistent level. So try not to have an Ingram in terms of that incredible catch, something that I got a chance to see for a couple of years where you just like, how do you do that? So shout out to him for that. Yeah, Ingram on the field with his shirt off running sprints, like any time I would see him like that, like before after practice, I would always do a double take thinking I would be like, is there is there like a professional fighter here today or something? He's just so torn to shreds like I remember he would do his off season workouts, guys from like other teams would be working out with him and they would be like, I don't even know who this guy was. I walked into the gym. I'm like, who the hell is this? You know? Yeah. Impressive, impressive guy. If you have any other shout outs, obviously throw them in. I'm going to continue to shout out this guy with the consistent football play that he's been doing. It's, it's Safar and Barkley, another 100 yard game, just playing with a lot of passion that they're five and two, they continue to give him the ball. I think he had 22 periods for 100 yards. Shout out to Safar for consistent weekend and week out performance. 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But Brock continues to show that he can really play this game and, you know, he delivers on Sunday night. And then I also want to give another shout out to Kyle Shanahan. Kyle Shanahan. I mean, literally gets running backs off the street and will give you and get you a hundred yards. I mean, that's incredible play calling. That incredible scheme, but Kyle can literally in the middle of a season go grab two running backs off the street who are in decent shape and they will get a hundred yards in this offense. Now, I'm not saying he will win a Super Bowl with them. He needs Christian McCaffrey to come back, which I believe he'll be coming back after the bi-week, but in terms of prolonging Christian McCaffrey's career, Kyle Shanahan could put people plug and play people into this offense. So shout out to Kyle Shanahan, his scheme, the offensive line and everybody blocking for those running backs. That's so well said. I believe the guy's name was Isaac Gorendo, 14 carries, 85 yards and a touchdown, 6.1 yards per touch insane. That's a great point. Benny on Brock Purdy. Is there any question in your mind about paying him, you know, whatever, whatever it's going to be, 45 million, 50 million, you know, the going rate for quarterbacks now, is he in your mind, 100% obviously worth that, or are you still looking for more there? Speaking from a player's perspective, I absolutely think he's worth top dollar and his performance and play has warranted that to NFC championships and one Super Bowl appearance as a starter and continues to play well. If I'm Brock, I take the time Brady approach and say, hey, you know, I want top tier money. I want top 10 money. I don't want to reset the market because I want you guys to continue to surround me with incredible players so I can continue to have an incredible career. But no, Brock definitely deserves his money, but if I'm him, yes, I want top 10 money. I don't want to reset the market, but I do believe in myself. I believe in my talent, but I want you to continue to surround me with the Divo Samuos of the world, the George Chills of the world as these guys continue to get older. I want you to continue to find people in free agency who fit into this offense that I can spread the ball around to. Yeah, I have to admit, you know, there's time, there's times where I feel like I'm right on the nose with things and there's times when I'm wrong and, you know, perdy to me, even seeing him in person against the Giants last year, I felt like a good defensive scheme could, you know, take some of the things he does away and fluster him and expose his weaknesses. But, you know, this is too much good football, you know, for too long of a time for me to be right about that. Like, I think he's tough. I think he, you know, he didn't have a good game last week, but I think he mostly plays within himself, you know, I think he knows exactly what he is, and also, you know, like to tie your points together, Shanahan demands a lot and out of, you know, the players on his offense for executing that scheme and especially on the quarterback. And I remember the reason they put him in in the first place was because he was mastering it, he was on top of all the details and not just from an understanding standpoint, but an execution standpoint, I mean, certainly it helps to have all the weapons they have. But to your point, now look at this, no McCaffrey, no Iuke, Debo, basically 50%, Kittle playing banged up because he's an animal. But, you know, this is a Brock perdy win, conversely that he then, the Dallas Cowboys get the ball back with a chance to go down and score. There's like three or four minutes left, and they go three dropbacks, three incompletions and punt the ball. I mean, like there's 25 seconds left in the game. I mean, Mike McCarthy and the Cowboys are lost. They're completely lost. Yeah, Dallas stinks. At the end of the day, they stink and play calling as vanilla. You know what's coming. You know what's so surprising to me is that when you go back and you look at, you know, Dallas getting ready to do this two minute drive. The first play they call, they call a dagger concept, which is a 15 yard dig. You see CD land getting ready to come across it, but I don't know if he was in the slot or outside. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Dak throws the ball and there are three people around CD land. It should have been picked up. I'm like, Dak, what is Dak looking at? I think Dak needs to take off the visor. I don't know if he's seeing glares or seeing ghosts, but Dak take off the visor because literally things like that, concepts like that, you're not supposed to mess that up. Number one, you're not supposed to mess it up in terms of like, hey, there are three people around. This person isn't open. Find someone else. And it's alarming with the team, but I don't think this team is actually that talented. This isn't the team, the Cowboys team that I was playing when I was in New York, where they would bully you. They had the Lions formula. They had an incredible offensive line, Zeke was in his prime, they'd run the ball and then they hit you with play action. This team, yeah, they suck, so we don't even need to talk about the Cowboys anymore. They're just not a good team. They're not well coached. McCarthy won't be there after this year, and that's just based off of they don't practice hard. They're talking about practice habits. The team that has Super Bowl aspirations, you're not supposed to be talking about practice at all. You're supposed to be talking about execution playing hard, but that speaks to the culture and the leadership in that team. I don't know who the leaders are on that team, and it looks like they're lacking a lot of leadership. Yeah. So. No, good point. Yeah. No more Cowboys talk and to go back quickly to your Eagles point in Saquan, we'll see how sustainable it is, but I was very critical the last few weeks of coming out of the bye week when they were two and two there after a bad loss to the Buccaneers. Very critical of how he rose in the general manager and of the operations, Siriana Yellen at the fans after they beat the Browns. This is one of those teams, Benny, where they have a good enough offense, where if they get rolling, that just, you know, people around the league don't want to see this version of them, right? Like they don't want to see hurts running well, Brown and Smith healthy down the field, Saquan going for over 20 carries for a hundred yards every week. Like this is, this team is a factor and to stand on the Roseman point too. You know, Cooper Dajean, draft pick, making some big plays, Isaiah Rogers, who I believe is DRC's cousin making a great play to force an interception there and some of those acquisitions and players kind of really stepping up. This is a team that is going in my mind from, you know, I'm not putting them up there in the top tier yet, but this is a team that I don't think anybody wants to play right now. Yeah, they have, they have the recipe to win later in December and early in January, which is running the ball. Jalen hurts being super efficient 16 for 20 and finding his guys Devonta Smith and AJ Brown and then Dallas Cotter and then if their defense can continue to be more than serviceable, you have incredible leadership with Brandon Graham on the defensive line, Darius Slay on the back end, CJ Garner Johnson, who is the energy of that defense and continues to make plays and is always around the ball. They do have the recipe to win later on in the year. We'll see how they continue to progress week after week and as they start to get into the division games and what this team would look like after Thanksgiving, but they continue to do well. No doubt, no doubt, quick break to tell our viewers and listeners about our sponsors. My bookie is sponsoring us obviously 10th year anniversary, rolling out the red carpet for sports better has been crushing it against the spread. The last few weeks, two in one on Pat's pick so far this week with my Steelers covering against the Giants bet coming up here on Monday night. But you need to use that promo code, Pat's picks at the link in my social media profiles. You get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip also brought to you here on Talking Ball on the Believe Network by Boom Chaga mushroom super drink and natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. Use the code Talking Ball 25 or the QR code on your screen to get 25% off your first subscribe and save order at boomchaga.com. Start feeling the difference today and brought to you by a state 98 coffee all natural specialty coffee with no sugar convenient for on the go coffee drinkers to estate 98.com backslash talking ball for a special buy one get one free deal today. Benny, a couple of things that were on my mind bugging me wanted to go over with you. First of all, I didn't see this on Sunday, but I wake up Monday morning, I'm going over kind of the headlines and apparently in the third quarter of the Colts Texans game, Anthony Richardson after a second down where he was pressured, he scrambles out, he gets sacked for zero yards. He pulled himself out of the game in the red zone basically is like third and 23 run outside the red zone for Joe Flacco and after the game, he was asked why and he said because he was tired from running a lot the previous play Benny, I don't even know what question to ask. I'm just going to give you the floor to respond to whatever the heck that is. You know what? I don't know if I can actually respond. I don't know if I actually have a real response for this because I've never seen a quarterback tap out after a scramble run. I know he does scramble a lot, so I'm just going to give him a pass because I don't know how to positively respond to this. I know he's quite the athlete. I know he's an incredible player, but this is somebody who needs to work on his accuracy. He's throwing, I mean he is just super inefficient right now and I'm wondering what are the progressions and how are they installing the offense for him to understand it. But yeah, he taps out, thank God they got a guy like Joe Flacco who can stay ready but come in and serve us a player too, but yeah, you just never see a quarterback just tapping out of a game, but you know, the different breed of young guys in the league now. That last line is exactly my thought process there, but you're right. It almost feels like a situation where there's more to it than meets the eye, but that's what made it so startling that he just said it was because he was fatigued. If he said that there was something wrong if you didn't want to talk about it, there'd be some gray area, but now it makes you say what are we talking about? You know, anyone on the Colts could just tap their helmet and walk off the field. You can't even see one of the assistant coaches when he does it. One of the assistant coaches goes, he starts like kind of looking around at everybody. He's like, he's never seen it before. Benny, also this is a few days away from us now, but doesn't there have to be like a federal investigation into the officiating of this Rams Vikings game at the end with Donald's face mask getting pulled and the view from the back of the end zone. You can see that the official in the back of the end zone has a clear view staring right at it. I mean, as a player, how difficult is it to get over a call like that? They were obviously down. They had to go the full field. They still might have lost the game. But how difficult is it to get over a call like that where it's not like you're frustrated and you're curious, you know, you got screwed? I think that's the part that pisses these players off the most now is like, it's the blatant, blatant things where the ref is not making the right call. It's these blatant things that are happening at the end of the game where it's like, you know, Minnesota has a chance to go, I think, to six and one after that game and now they're sitting at five and two and things like that are super important, especially because they're playing an NFC team. So that's what pisses the players off is these blatant calls that are missed or these calls that are called that are, you know, that are ticky-tack penalties. That's I think that's in you, if the way I'm thinking about it is don't put it in the rest hands. How do you not put it in the rest hands? And I know I've had great coaches when we go on the road, you know, they say, hey, don't even try. Don't even put it into the referee's hands. Just consider that when we are on the road that we're already down seven walking into the building because the rest will find a way to mess this up. So don't put it into their hands. Try to run away with this game. So but yeah, that'll bother you for sure. Just, you know, the inconsistent play in calling of the refs this year has been egregious. No doubt, very well said, jumping around here a little bit, but I meant to say this earlier and it slipped my mind when you mentioned on the Hail Mary play, the Washington play beating the Chicago Bears in the last second toss to Noah Brown, you said it surprised you that the Chicago Bears rushed only four. I think our viewers, if they didn't see this, you should go back and watch how the Texans attack the Colts on their Hail Mary at the end of the game. They overloaded their pass rush and I believe they brought a fifth, but they brought extra pressure, a unique pressure and they flushed Richardson from his right to his left. So that's like an X's and O's thing. I think people should go take a look at when you see how not to defend it like the Bears showed you, go and watch how Houston and D'Amico Ryan's defend the dad against the Colts because I thought that showed some planning and some intelligence on their side of the ball. Many power rankings, I'm going to go Lions one, Chiefs two, Ravens three, Bills four, Packers five. Do you have any issues with that power ranking? I would just interchange the Chiefs and Lions. I think Travis Kelsey getting going yesterday, 10 catches for 90 yards, getting in the end zone. The Andre Hopkins, a couple of catches, I think two catches for 29 yards. But he will continue to get integrated into that offense. Patrick Mahomes, he still turned the ball over, but two touchdowns and, you know, they pretty much were running away with that game. It was 27 to 14, I believe, or 27 to 13 and then the Raiders scored late. But seven to no, can't argue against that. The Lions have one loss, they still have not done anything in terms of a trade to replace Aidan Hutchinson for the rest of the year, so I'll go with Kansas City at the one, Lions at the two, Ravens at three, and I think you said Bills and then Packers. I would go with those teams. Yeah, that sounds good for right now. That sounds good for right now. I might take Minnesota over Green Bay. Yeah, that's an interesting one. You know, the Green Bay, of course, with Jordan Love, suffering that groin injury now, you have to consider that too. It does come at a favorable time because they have one more game, I think, against the Lions here before their bi-weeks and then they get some time to recover before they come out of it and they have the Bears, the Niners right off the bat after that. So if there's a time for Love to go down and heal a little bit, it's now. But I think that's a good point by you, you know, kind of undecided there at the top of the NFC North, that's going to go down to the wire, be a fantastic finish, I think. Wanted to get your opinion because we are talking before the Giants play this week against Mr. Limited and the Pittsburgh Steelers. And Benny, my personal feeling is I think the Giants offense and operation is in real trouble. I think it's coming apart. I think it could come undone and I think they could get shut out in this game to be honest with you. And I'm not saying that to be overly critical. It's just my informed opinion of what I see. My question to you is though, is Wilson flawed enough as a player and a quarterback to keep the Giants in this game? You know, can they use his limitations against the Steelers to keep it close regardless of how the Giants offense is playing? I think the Giants have an incredible defensive line. So I think that they can get into a Russell's face. I think they can make throws pretty hard and I think the Giants have done an incredible job of making quarterbacks life a living hell. I mean, Dexter Lawrence and then Brian Burns. So I think they can definitely make it difficult. I'd be curious to see if Russell's going to be continuing to throw those moonballs tonight in terms of the pressure that will be in his face, but there will be opportunities for the Giants to make plays on the back end. He's not going to make it obvious in terms of throwing it right to you, but he will be on the run and he will give opportunity because of the way he does throw the ball. But I think there's an opportunity for this game to be close because of the Giants' pass rush and because Russell Wilson cannot escape the pocket and escape the pass rush like he used to, there will be opportunities, but this doesn't look good for the Giants because of how incredible the Steelers defense is. You got to make a Fitzpatrick on the back end, you got Joey Porter Jr. on the outside and then you have an incredible pass rusher. If not, be the best defensive player in the league right now and TJ Watt, who will probably have a strip sack, a couple sacks tonight, probably a forced fumble, probably a fumble recovery. You know, that's just the type of stats that he puts up every single night. You know, he will dominate tonight, I don't know how they'll block it up, I mean, wherever he's at, I put two over there, but you know, he's creative, you know, double teams haven't really stopped him. It's not like people don't know that he is the go-to guy on the other side, they still can't stop him. So, without for TJ Watt tonight, number 90, we'll see him all over. Yeah, no, it's a really good point by you about the Giants D line because if there's anything Russell doesn't handle well, it's that interior pressure, I mean, that makes every quarterbacks life difficult, but that's what Dexter Lawrence can bring. Be interesting to see how much Brian birds can give, because he's been laboring through this groin injury and like midway through the last two games, you see it starting to affect him. So, I think, I don't know if they're going to be strategic and how they deploy his snaps. I know they were trying to do that against Philly and legit the second he came off the field, they ran right at his side where he was and say, "Quan went for 55." So, it was legit like that, you know. And the second it happened, I'm like, "Zero's not on the field," so that'll be really interesting to see. Benny Crazy's stat here, the Giants, so they have one interception as a defense by an inside linebacker, so they have played seven games and their secondary does not have an interception yet this season. The Giants secondary. The Giants secondary, does not have an interception yet this season. But I think it's possible Russ gives them their first one, like you said, moon balls, 50/50 balls, trying to trust George Pickens on those plays. And it'll be interesting to see which player slumps off and quits first, because we know George Pickens has given up on the field mid play before. And Deontay Banks, Giants Corner, who I like a lot as a person, but he's killing us. Two plays in the last four weeks where, and by us, I mean, people who love football. I mean, people who are watching somebody on the field slumping his shoulders and giving in. Brian Dable, I should get your take on this. We've talked about this, but he's not benching get banks for the start of this game. He will start the game after not chasing Jalen Hurts on a scramble in the second half of last week's game, is there a situation where a stern talking to and positive reinforcement from his teammates and his coordinator can change the course of a player's work habits? Or like my view point is kind of like the old school, like if you don't hold somebody accountable, it's going to spread throughout the team and everybody it's finished. But you know, maybe I'm maybe I'm being overly harsh about it. Either either your coaching or you're allowing it to happen. Hopefully, day ball coach, hopefully he showed that clip in the meeting room in front of everybody. Hey, this is not acceptable. This is not the Giants way. If he didn't do that and he'd let him get away with this and continues to let him get away with this, everybody now knows they can do whatever they want, I've been in situations like that, especially in that building and in that locker room where, you know, there is no real accountability and people go on their separate ways. And that does not create a winning culture. So hopefully you addressed it of a benching. I don't know if he should have been bench, because I didn't see the play, but calling him out and letting him know in front of the team, this will not be tolerated is an approach that day ball should take for sure. Benny, we always appreciate your time here. This has been first down with Benny Fowler, the week eight recap with a former Super Bowl champion NFL wide receiver back on the field for the coin toss for those Panthers for a big dub. Benny, giving us dubs every week here on Talking Ball. Thank you so much. We always appreciate your time, man. Appreciate you, Pat. That was a great conversation, as always, with Benny Fowler, Super Bowl champion, former NFL wide receiver. Hope you learned something. I learned a lot talking to him every week about how NFL players think and about the entire league. We are brought to you here, as always, on Talking Ball with Pat Leonard on the Believe Network by my bookie. My bookie is rolling out the red carpet for sports betters this football season. And if you're already a member, you can sign up for My Bookie Plus. That's the loyalty rewards program where you can get exclusive promotions, giveaways, cashback in your account, sign up today, MyBookie.ag. If you don't have an account yet, I have a deal for you. Use the promo code PATSPIX on the link in all of my social media profiles, and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more, all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. We've been winning a lot against the spread this season. We keep it rolling. 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Thank you for listening. (crowd cheering) [BLANK_AUDIO]