[MUSIC] Hey, good Tuesday morning, fan morning shows, 4.5.9 is bad, bad at it, spread gunning. Good morning to you, Brian. Good morning to you as well, Ben, thank you for saying that to me. Toronto Maple Leafs, in action day, gonna play a real life competitive, regular season, national hockey league game, which we're very excited. And you know what, they're gonna do it again tomorrow? My God. >> What's my weekend looking like, keep it coming, don't stop now. >> I might because, yeah, you're getting uncomfortable. >> I'm just trying to avoid hearing that sound again. So, no, whatever I have to do, did not hear that. >> What was I saying? Oh, yeah, Leafs, yeah, okay, get to them in just a second. Sportsnet, Monday Night Hockey from Calgary, little small little Dustin Wolf, unable to contain big little Alex Ovechkin. Two goals for Alex Ovechkin as he crosses the 20 goal barrier once again, for the 19th time in his incredible career, first player in NHL history, to start his career on a 19 season streak of scoring at least 20 goals. >> I just like these stats start say career with a 19 season. You know what most people call that, a career. >> Yeah. >> They don't say that you start it. And it's like, yeah, it's like when somebody goes, he started his life with a good 100 year run, like most people just call that living a life. >> So what is it like Gordy Howe has the longest streak of 20 seasons with 20 goals? Yes, he hears the problem. Gordy Howe didn't start his career with 20 goals. So no, no, I'm not saying it's a bad stat or you gave it in the wrong way. It's just jarring that when you put it that way, most people would look at that as, I mean, honestly, a lot of people would say, how about we go half-seize, I'll take nine of those seasons, you take 10 and we'll call it a day. Like it's just remarkable has sustained excellence. >> Yeah, Brett and Shanahan also had 19 consecutive not to start his career though. Gordy Howe has 22, again, not to start the career. Listen, it was not an obvious thing that that was going to happen. >> This season for Alex Ovechkin. And even after potting a couple yesterday, giving him 21 this season, he's got near a career low, shooting percentage of 9.3%. But all of a sudden now, yeah, he has the 21 goals and the 52 points and 64 games. And what a bizarre Eastern Conference. The Washington Capitals are now inside a playoff position in the Eastern Conference. They're at 75 points. It's one more than the Red Wings. They have a game in hand on Detroit. They played the same number of games as the Islanders who have lost four consecutive. But they have two points on them. The savers also one last night. But they're fighting an uphill battle because they've played two more games than the Capitals. The Capitals, not that they're actively not trying to win, but clearly every move that was made at the deadline was with an eye towards the future. You got Sidney Crosby desperate to get in and that team can't buy a win. Caps are like, yeah, take them as they come and they could find themselves on the inside of the playoff picture. Yeah, it's it's remarkable. I mean, some of it is, you know, won't won't call it luck. Obviously, they'd rather have these players at the best versions of themselves. But you know, you get the LTIR stuff with Backstrom and sometimes it's like Pittsburgh's going through this right now. And I think that, you know, Malcolm has more in the tank than maybe Backstrom had left. But when you remove pieces of the core, it allows other guys to kind of step in. And take more of a role. It forces you to find those other pieces. And with Pittsburgh, those guys, I mean, you know, Latang aside and Crosby concussion stuff, which I know is a wild thing to say. It's like that core has been remarkably healthy for the most part while they've been together. So they haven't had that where, all right, Crosby's out for, I mean, again, he had his concussion issues. Please never come back again. Yeah, get out of here, David Steckle. Yeah, no, absolutely too good a shutdown center is what I say about you. But I think that you never had the opportunity for, all right, Malcolm's going to miss the year like you've had with Backstrom and you know, they have their Conor McMichael, a young center in Washington that can kind of take a stride and have more of a hold on a roster spot there. The points made a million times. Cap started moving in this direction just a little sooner than the Penguins. Part of that is that the core was worse. The core was older or at least felt older, but you're seeing the small advantage of it. Well, I shouldn't say small if they get in the playoffs. The advantage of it right now. Yeah, no, that's a significant advantage. And I don't think it's going to like impact the legend of either player, Alex Ovechkin or Sidney Crosby when their careers are done, you know, Sidney Crosby still one of the greatest of all time maybe on the Mount Rushmore of all time greats and the sport and Alex Ovechkin is perhaps now we can talk about him once again, surpassing Wayne Gretzky is the greatest goal scorer in the history of the NHL and he's resumed being an above average goal scorer this season. But that's an incredible achievement considering how like out of the the listen, I didn't think about the Capitals for a long time this season, as it would be Frank, like that was a team that was just felt like and also ran a relevant team and I mean, it does speak to the race to the bottom that is the final wild card spot in the Eastern Conference that they're able to get in. But yeah, look at some of the other teams that are way more desperate to get in than the Capitals. You don't think the Sabres would have, I mean, pushed your grandmother over to get into the postseason this year? I mean, obviously the Penguins and Kyle Dubas did everything he could to make that team relevant in an Eastern Conference where the last playoff spot is attainable. The Red Wings went out and acquired Patrick Kane at the deadline and here's the Capitals were like, man, get in, we don't get in, no big deal. And they find themselves in a pretty good position with about a month to go in the season. Yeah, and this isn't this isn't all on the back of a Vatican. I'm not trying to make that argument. But before the month of February, he had not scored more than three goals in a calendar month this year. They're all two or three. And in the month of February, ripped off seven, he's already got five this month, including a pair last night. We love narratives and I just want to get ahead of this one. The old guys still got it. Alex Ovechkin finding his groove, dragging this team to the playoffs because he just has to find a way to continue to have relevance in this league. I think a big reason why you saw the version of Ovechkin that you saw at the beginning of this year. I'm not taking anything away from him in terms of putting it on himself. He has to perform. But if you see the kind of floor shaking out beneath you, well, you're trying to chase history. What am I doing here? What's going on? And all of a sudden, then the puck starts to go in, team starts winning games. Obviously, the two things are connected there. So this is an incredible story. We were all sitting here and I'm not going to sit here and say, I want it more for Ovi than I do. Sid. It's like, go check my passport. We all know, we all know how I feel about these things, but you could be a Russian plan, but go I'm pretty, pretty safe. I'm not on that. Pretty safe. But I look at it and say, how can you not love this story? This was a guy who we were. Nobody wanted to do it because you always thought the bounce back was possible, but people were preparing the shovels. They had placed the order for the dirt to come in. And all of a sudden, guys just found his stride and he's pulling the team to the playoffs doing it. It's an amazing story. We love this in sports. It's all we're so bogged down in champion ships and hey, they want to win a cup. I guarantee you ask, Ovi, do you want to squeak in? Or do you want to win the cup? He wants to win the cup, but these are amazing stories too. And sometimes we do kind of take them for granted. Yeah, it's an amazing story. That being said, again, like the the Leafs have been incredible that they've been able to be in the postseason each and every season of Austin Matthews career. They've run into some really good teams saved for like the Montreal Canadiens and the Columbus Blue Jack and not the playoff series as you point out. Yeah. And that season, yeah, they might have missed the playoffs and Kaldu was on that run. They would know because then you take away the thing. So they wouldn't miss the playoffs. Yeah. Yeah. God, I can't have my cake and eat it. Anyways, you know, it'd be nice to finish at the top of the Atlantic top of the Eastern Conference and get like, Hey, maybe the Capitals are headed for a miracle run. I think correct me if I'm wrong. Maybe you disagree with this. That seems like a better matchup for whoever gets them at the top of the Atlantic division, whether it's the Bruins or the Panthers, then either of those teams playing the Toronto Maple Leafs in the first round. Yeah. I think I would care for what you wish for. I know. Yeah. I think I'd feel better. Although I guess Spencer Cartle, Raspis Andean plays my cool as the ex-leaf that would murder you. It's hard to see Sandean having like five goals in the series, but can you imagine we just see Carberry drawn stuff up while the Leafs penalty kills getting scored on left, right and center. Oh, Carberry call it like he knows the secret. Like he knows the guy that uses the illegal curve and he's waiting for the final two minutes of game seven to call for the measurement. Yeah, it'd be really funny if it was Ryan Reeves who use that stick. It's like he's like, I just need this curve. This is the one I know. It doesn't sound so funny. No. All right, Leafs in Philly tonight to play the flyers, to play the Capitals tomorrow. It's a lot of travel for a cap team that was in Calgary last night and coming back home to play the Leafs tomorrow. Oh, they're fine. First class travel chart, not private jets, chartered planes. That's a day. They'll be fine. I generally agree. But yeah, that's not enough. All right, Leafs in Philly play the flyers tonight. No Mitch Marner. Mm hmm. Still not skating after suffering that it's quite injury. Two weeks ago, it'll be two weeks ago, Thursday, he's not going to make the trip. So no flyers tonight, no Capitals tomorrow. Sheldon Keef. You know what? Actually, let's play the Sheldon Keef clip on his injury instead of me just reading it for you. Way better. Because, yeah, theatre of the mind. Yeah, we have that clip. Forget. All right, here's Sheldon Keef on Mitch Marner. Sheldon, what's the outlook for Mitch this week here? It's not going to be coming on the trip with us. Just trying to get him to the point that he's comfortable throughout the week. So this is he's a day to day away from being day to day. That's for the day to day. He's day to day on skating. Well, let's figure them out from there. Was that a sign that's? All right. Well, that's two Bruno Cabot glo sounding, right? Like he's two years away from two years away. No, it worked out so well last time. Maybe Marner will be ready for the start of next year's regular season for doing the Cabot glo math on that. Yeah, we're never. We're just about a month away from the end of the regular season. So there's lots of time for Mitch Marner if he's dated, even if he's day to day from being day to day, there's lots of days, right? There's days. We got days. We got 16 games here to go. Like I said a month. How many games do you really need Mitch Marner to play? Like the individual point totals aren't going to be there for Mitch Marner and sorry, not the not hitting 100 points yet again in his career and not going to score the career high in goals that he was on pace to before he got hurt. But that's besides the point now, it's all about getting him back to 100%. Are you are you concerned by this? This this run of events here, Brent? I don't I don't like it. It's a weird injury. And again, I know goalies are different in more ways than one like they're different and they're affected differently by by ankle injuries specifically. But you know, Joe Wall thing lingered lingered lingered eventually came back, but it was not the right after the all-star break like we and that was the longer end of the timetable. Like, let's put it after the all-star break. And then I think it was still another two weeks kind of after that. This is no time to panic. It's nothing along those lines. So long as Marner has time to ramp up before the start of the regular season, it doesn't matter. You mentioned the point totals and fear him. You almost need it to like go a little go a few games longer here. It's like you don't want to end up with 95 points again. It's like you want to be able to make the true points per game argument of like, look points per game. It's not even close. I'm easy 100 point guy. I do feel bad for him that once again, another season is going to go by here without him getting a 100 point marker because he deserves it. Like he is he is a 100 point player, not in actuality, but by what you watch and see, that's a guy who deserves to have a 100 point season. And it stinks for him that he's not going to get it this year. But who cares? The only thing that matters is about having him at the best version and this would apply to any one of consequence on this team. Same thing goes for Kelly, Kelly Yarnkrucker, sorry, Yarn Krucks, shout out to Matt Sandeen. I think that when you look at it, you have to slow play this. I just think it's a little odd, the messaging of it. It goes back to everything I say about what is the thing we can say that will cause the lease alarm bells to go off? If they just announced, which Marner's out two to three weeks, when this first happened, how would we have reacted to that? Would it have been different? And that's why I think it's being messaged this way. I think I think the injury is surprising them a little. I think it's probably something that's taking a little more time than they initially thought. But I also think all things being equal, let's just not have a 10 alarm fire around the team, if we don't have to, why would we? Yeah, I've been meaning to look this up because you always change the number of bells that the fire has. And I think I always go 10. Yeah, so it's like five alarm fire. Five alarm fire, 10 bells saved. That hockey guy in my brain, I'm like, if there are bells and alarm ringing, it's 10 of them. Yeah, I mean, that's your exaggerating, I guess, calling it a 10 alarm fire. Like, that's not wrong. But yeah, I think you can max out at five alarms for a fire. Anyways, Mitch Marner, yeah, he's. Hold on. What? What? I just like, I googled is a 10 alarm fire thing. And at one time, according to the Boston Herald, there was one. It was at a hospital. So sad. Oh, great. No way to bring us down, Brad. Well, what you want me to do? We're trying to have a happy, fun sports conversation. You're talking about hospitals being on fire. Would it be better if I talked about the Chicago, like, theater fires that better? No, all right, let's just move on. Okay. Speaking of disasters, the fliers recent run, I don't know. Anyways, Marner's angle is where. Yeah, again, like, I do think that the timeline, the timeframe, like, if this is the postseason, I think he's probably playing maybe. What do I know? I suppose he's not even, he's not even practicing right now, but I you got to think that the timeframe and it being a month out of the the playoffs here and the Leafs position being solidified more than any other team in the NHL obviously impacts the impetus for them to bring him back. Anyways, we've missed him now for three games. We haven't seen him for three games. Got injured in the second Bruins game two weeks ago, the hockey gods smited him for not shooting the puck. Correct. You should have shot the puck. Was it not that play that he entered it? And then he went around and he kind of toe picked in a weird way. And that's how we got the high angle spring. Yeah, okay. Hockey God said you got to shoot. It was wide open. It would have been a 2-2 game. The least sort of won. But we would have had a completely different referendum against the Bruins, but hey, that's neither here nor there. They haven't lost in regulation since he went down there, 201. We mentioned that the record without him is a little different than the Austin Matthews. More certainly different than the Morgan Riley record without without him where the Leafs are at their absolute best just record wise without Morgan Riley. It hasn't been the case with Mitch Marner. Small sample so far, Brian. Is there anything to glean from the three games without Mitch Marner? Anything that you're looking for in the next two without Mitch Marner? It's not about what to glean, but it's about learning to deal with this. If you want to be a team that's going to go on a run of any consequence, and I don't mean to get beat in five games in the second round of the playoffs, I mean a real run, like a conference final or something along those lines, you're going to do it without players that matter a ton to you. You had to do it without John Tavares in the Montreal series. And I know they lost it, but they also went up three one without him. That was 10 minutes into the series. That wasn't 10 minutes into game four that that happened. So I think that they're the thing to be gleaned out of this is not so much how they look without him, but it's learning to operate without him because they've been able to do it without Austin Matthews. They've been able to do it without Morgan Riley. Marner is a different case clearly just based on the record that the team has shown without him. I don't think it's as stark as the record show, where they're barely above 500 with Marner and cruising along without Matthews and Riley. But I think you have to learn how to play through this kind of adversity. If I'm going to glean anything, I don't think it's something to learn from the playoffs, but I think it's a great thing for the player. And it's all right, Nick Robertson, get running. Like there's no leash on you right now. Yarnkrock has hurt. Marnering coming back anytime at least too, too soon. This should be the time to let Nick Robertson run. I don't think you learn anything from that quite honestly me, but I think it's important for the player because guess what? Somebody goes down. You're going to need him. Yeah, Yarnkrock was retroactively put on LTIR. So he's not coming back until early April at the absolute earliest. Yeah, for me, it's special teams. I mean, this is this is a team that's struggled on both special teams recently, but all season long, it's been the penalty kill that's been the issue. And he's been a part of the penalty kill, but specifically the power play and how anemic it's looked recently. And we can talk about the new look of power play one, which I mean, when you're as top heavy as the Maple Leafs are, you should really only need to talk about the one unit because the second unit gets what like 20 seconds maybe if they're lucky. Yeah, it's to me, it's how does the special teams look without Mitch Marner? And if they continue to look the way they've looked recently, even after the trade deadline, and then Mitch Marner returns, and it looks amazing. Boy, it's hard not to have that impact it for me. And he's going to get his money either way. But this is a guy that has a contract extension upcoming beyond July, like is he not going to point to hey, I know the point total wasn't there. And we have the best goal score on Planet Earth also playing on this team. But hey, and William Nielander leads this team in points. But look at me, I'm the straw that stirs the drink. So we'll see. But yeah, Timothy Lilligren taking Morgan Riley spot on power play one in practice yesterday. He's going to be on the top power play unit. It's special teams, which could make or break this team's hopes in April and May and they're hoping June and he plays on both of them. Yeah, he does. I had to smirk you mentioned in the contract extension because short of Brad trail living walking in and just handing Mitch Marner $13 million a season. I can't imagine that thing gets done this summer without Mitch Marner holding like a big shiny cup or a cons mite or something along those lines. Like it feels like it would have to be something where, okay, he stamped home the value. But if it's anything, if it's just going off the value that he put forth this season of missing the bunch of games, once again, not being a hundred point guy, then he's going to do the Nielander thing because why wouldn't he? He's just going to like, why would he not? We don't have to talk about this now, but there's just I'd like to be on record that there's no way that that's he wants to say, you know, get some goodwill. Oh my God. Would he like to avoid what happened first go around? Who does it? Who says no, Mitch Marner? That too. And somebody else and the same last name. No, but you're right. Outside of him saying, all right, I'm just going to get the goodwill all on my side here and take a team friendly ish deal. I can't imagine it gets done this year. I can see that happening with the power play where, okay, Marner comes back. It's cooking. You say, here you go. You got the best set up man on the team. He finally can allow the power play to hum. I can easily see that happening. I think Marner is an exceptional penalty killer, but I don't think dropping him on the wing with David Cam fall of a sudden fixes all of the woes that this team has had killing penalties. Because guess what? He's been here all season long and having a problem either. Now, I will hear the argument that Mitch Marner's ability to pressure pucks with a maybe, you know, better kind of box out defender like a Joel Edmondson type can lead to a slightly better penalty kill. I can see that argument. I can hear that argument, but it's not going to change the world in that regard. So I, that's why I look at the penalty kill is something that you kind of got to, it's going to, it's not going to change a ton when Marner comes back. It will help. He might snap the odd shorty or two, make a few amazing plays is a great penalty killer, but they're not missing one great penalty killer. And he certainly doesn't play the wing if they are one penalty penalty killer away from being great. They added three penalty killers to the deadline. It still hasn't been good. No, this has not been very good at all. And they, and again, we said yesterday, but they, they're getting safe, can't just point to the guy wearing the pillows and saying it's his fault. Thank you to Luke Fox for at least always doing without without you even quantifying. Thank you to Luke Fox, either doing the research himself or sending an email to somebody else to do the, to do the research, because yeah, he quantified what we all know to be true that the Leafs special teams is much worse in the post season than it is during the regular season. So in, in the playoffs, Leafs power, sorry, the penalty kill. So during the entire awesome Matthews era, all these numbers are, are from year one of Austin Matthews. So taking it from the Capitol series up until the Panther series last post season, the penalty kill has operated at 75.3% in the playoffs. That's 26 of all 30 teams that have appeared in at least one series over that span. Powerplay has dropped from a total of 24.3% during the regular season. So they're third in the near decade that Austin Matthews has been a Toronto Maple Leaf. They, they are third in the NHL over that span, clicking it over 24 percent during the regular season in the post season, it drops to 18.6% that's a six point drop. That is 15th when it comes to the post season. That's all you need to know about what's happened the last now again, near decade, seven seasons in the post season. Yeah, it's going to be a point of emphasis. And I think it is, it's equally irksome for so many people because officiating kind of always ruse its head. We know how officiating is in this sport. It's the same in a lot. Like you call holding every play in the NFL. You call a cross check every other every third second in the NHL if you want to. And I think the whistle will have a, and I don't, I don't say this to mean the least need to get the benefit of the doubt. They need to get all the calls. But in years past, we've been clamoring. They need more power plays. They need more power plays. I think you're going to want a little bit of prison rules going on in these games where you can kind of do what you want. Now that affects your guys as well. Like Austin Matthews has not proved to be great in games that are kind of officiated with prison rules, generally speaking. But I do think that for an I am as guilty as anyone of saying, Oh, this is unjust. The Leafs never get any calls. And they don't like we've had the numbers of the Leafs having the fewest or among the fewest power plays in the league going back for five years now. But I actually think the way this team is built this year, you might kind of hope that it's a little more mucky and they're not calling everything just because the power play can be good, but it also was ice cold at times. Well, and if you're looking for reason, I think that the potential negatives outweigh the potential positives because as great as the power play can be that the penalty kill is worse. I think it's it's it's it's jarring. It's a jarring area of futility for this. This leaf Stephen has been over the the course of this entire Austin Matthews run and maybe the worst in that run this season. So I mentioned it to Timothy Lilligren takes Morgan Riley spot on power play one interesting timing for this thing because Simon Benwall getting back in the lineup because Elia Labushkin's dealing with I slightly changed up the grunt from when I found out there were four leaf games this week because I want to make you uncomfortable twice. Yeah, I'm still uncomfortable, but less so yes. Simon Ben one in in for Elia Labushkin who has an illness and is likely to miss these two games in Philly, in Washington, maybe back on Saturday against the Edmonton Oilers. An interesting time as I mentioned for Timothy Lilligren to get back in the lineup because it feels like those two are battling for the same roster spot when we hit the postseason. This power play was at its best. It must be said with Timothy Lilligren running at the quarterback position with Morgan Riley suspended. Now correlation, not always causation. Morgan Riley, I mentioned all those great regular season power play stats as with Morgan Riley running that thing for the majority of times, but it also must be said that this wouldn't be the first end of season headed towards the post season that they've looked to change that that quarterback. Rasmus Sandeen got a kick at the can. He did. We've had moments like this before. I mean, is this the path though for Timothy Lilligren to really cement his spot in the game one lineup if he returns that power play to end again, no Mitch Marner. So it's not a I guess a fair and complete look at what this power play could be. But is this the path to him saying, all right, this is mine. I'm not letting go right now. It is the clearest path to him because, you know, and I want to be clear. I'm not so much in the camp that a lot of people find themselves in with I think Timothy Lilligren is a he definitely has his warts, but he is a mostly competent player. Like there's nothing he does exceptionally, but he doesn't have a ton of glaring, glaring flaws in his game. And so I look at it as there's never going to be a thing he does where you go, Oh, you love the way he boxes out. Oh, you love the way he gaps up at the blue line. You like when he does that in moments, but you don't say that's why I want him out there. So this is the only thing he can grasp on to to say this is what I do best. Now the problem is, is that it's and this isn't a problem, but it's it's doing less. It's just getting out of the way. It's being a connector for all the good players that are out there. No offense, Timothy Lilligren. But there's a reason you haven't been on this. It's he needs to make sense. No, exactly. That's what I'm saying is that for a guy like Morgan Riley, as good as he is, you would say if Mitch Marner wasn't there and the least power play was having success with Riley, I think some people would wonder and go, Hmm, is that because Riley now is a little more time to handle the puck. It makes a little more sense. But without little without Marner in the lineup, you're just going to see Lilligren defer to somebody else and filter pucks to the net. I think there is a this makes all the sense in the world. And also not that this is about Morgan Riley, but I don't think it's the worst spot in the world for him to be out there at a at the end of a power play when you're going to be having, you know, a kind of frantic, you know, things are a little frantic out there. You have the other team coming back to five on five. You potentially can take advantage of, you know, some tired penalty killers and Riley's on the ice late in a power play. I like that spot for him too. But in terms of Lilligren, yeah, this is the best, it's the best way the clearest path for him to say, I have a job to do here. The problem is, is that it's getting out of the way, right? No one's going to say, Oh, the least power plays humming because of Lilligren. Yeah, if it doesn't make sense, though, like, if it just, Hey, here's the thing, if Morgan Riley was still running the power play, here's my guess is that it would eventually look maybe not as good as it did in the month of February. Look a lot better than it's looked for the majority of this month. Like, is there not just a natural regression back to how good this power play should be? And if it starts having success with Timothy Lilligren there, I mean, maybe part of that is on him, but could we also just be looking at things event like water actually reaching its level and it's just Timothy Lilligren happens to be there at the moment that it does and making the wrong assessment out of out of a return to to greatness for this power play? Yeah, I think the problem is, is that you do need to switch things up when things go dry, though. And I look at, especially with this unit right now with no marner, with Bertuzzi and Tavares out there, you're not trying to pass it into the back of the net, not that this team's always trying to do that, but you have two guys who are going to battle with net front position. So just get a guy who's going to throw pucks on net. And that doesn't mean that if this version of the power play goes dry and Mitch Marner comes back that you can't put Morgan Riley back out there. I think the two of them provide completely different utilities to the power play. And when things run stale, you have to switch it up. So the idea of having two muckers in front of the net, you have a guy in Lilligren who's content to quickly pass it or quickly shoot it, it works out well. And that doesn't mean that if it goes dry with Lilligren, you can't go back to Riley. >> Yeah, we spend a lot of air time talking about the lines and Max Stomey, by the way, is back up the middle as Condor Doers play in wing for tonight's game. We do a lot of talk about, hey, the mishmash of the four lines when in fact, like the area of more concern and the area that Sheldon Keef should be more desperate is in both specialty teams and figuring out the personnel that best gives him a chance to score on the power play and keep pucks out of the net only on the penalty kill. It starts tonight, though, against the fliers before we take the break. It's the general manager's meeting, just kind of going on to the radar, it feels like. But yeah, we had Frank on yesterday and I found out it was the GM meetings as we were talking. >> Was he at the GM meetings? >> Yeah, we did. He just started yelling at us. He was just very angry at us, very classic. >> Honestly, there's not a huge amount of relevant information coming out of these things. The thing that I'm most interested in is this, that the NHL has signed on to do a behind the scene series with Amazon that will center around 10 to 12 of their star players will be released in the fall. We don't have the names of the players, but obviously this is an attempt to recreate the drive to survive series in Formula One, which had me interested in Formula One until Formula One started stinking and I don't watch anymore. So let's be honest, until your bi-weekly obsession, like we all do this, it's like, all right, this was fun for five minutes. >> I tune in occasionally, but it's just hard when the result is determined like so obviously. >> Hey, I watch golf in Scotty Scheffler wins every week. >> He does, but he won coming back from five strokes back on Sunday with the 64. Max Verstappen is like, yeah, I start at the front at the beginning of every race and then I win by 20 seconds. Is that fun? Are you entertained? >> Sickly. >> And to that, I would say no. Anywho, but it did put Formula One on my radar where previously it wasn't. And not to say that the NHL is gonna have some great renaissance here, because people are gonna buy into the narratives, but I'm sure that's what the NHL would like to do. >> Of course. >> Given their brothers, Austin Matthews has to be involved in this thing, right? >> Of course, why not? Why it wouldn't be the NHL if the Leafs weren't paying their bills, one way or another. >> No, but don't say that, why are you skeptical? You think this is a bad thing? >> No, no, no, no. >> You don't want Austin Matthews a part of this? >> No, I mean, given my brothers, actually, yes, I would not like Austin Matthews to be a part of this. I don't need another clip of, and I understand to be about Austin Matthews, not Paul McLean. >> Yeah, I don't need another clip that's gonna ring in my brain for 100 years. So this is good. The NHL should do this thing. The only problem is, and I don't know if you agree with me on this part of it, but they're too late. They're too late. There's been too much saturation with these. It feels like every day there's a new, the MLS has there. It's like, I don't even care. Why is this? I love golf. >> Were they anybody in the world? >> Yeah. >> Have not watched full swing season two. >> Stop for Adam Stanley, who told us he's in this. >> Yeah, I know. But I just do what everybody does, and I get the screenshots of Stanley sent to me because he's so handsome. But I don't care. And part of it is, is that they went way too rude for a lack of a better turn. They're like, the cut in a golf tournament is what happened. And I'm like, I don't, this is not for me. >> No, but the real reason is they stop going deep, right? The access isn't rolling. >> Screaming at Phil in the last one. >> Screaming at Phil. Did you see the last one? He had a little comment where it was like, F that guy, F Phil. >> What was so great about the early seasons of drive to survive, and that is such a unique sport that everybody is so open about criticizing each other, or the competition that exists, or the animosity that exists. Within teams is like, everybody talked open. And then Maximus happens like, yeah, that's bad. Like, I don't want to do that anymore. I'm not involved. And then they've cut back. I haven't, I don't know, I think the new season of drive to survive actually has also been released. I haven't seen that one. But no, this is the only way you can have success with this thing, because you're right. There is a proliferation of them all over the place. >> There's too many. >> You have to give them everything. And what we know about hockey players, they're not really, they're not want to do that. What I can't wait for is, and there's just, there's 10 to 12 guys, they're all going to be on marquee teams, I'd imagine. Like, I don't know, maybe you have your like Jack Hughes, because he's American, it's on the Devils, and it's not really going to matter this year, but is the, well, 9 to 11 fan bases that will sit there and go, this guy was too busy mugging for the cameras and the play on. >> Well, like, when are they shooting this thing? If it's going to air in the fall, I imagine now, into the postseason. Well, that's the thing. Like, if you think an NHL team is letting a documentary camera, it will happen in the locker room during post season. That was like, that was a little dare. Because the Leafs got bit, nobody's done it since, that's why. Actually, that's the reason why. So hey, NHL, prove me wrong. I would love, love, love to see it. And to your point, Austin Matthews absolutely should be a part of it. So should Connor McDavid. So should Nathan McKinnon. Who am I missing? Like, those are the first three that immediately jumped to my mind. Is any- >> I would love to see Sid and the way he's dealt with the end of the season here. >> Boy, would you? >> That'd be, that'd be electric factory. Now we've, it's like, now I just need that. >> Yeah. >> Now I just need the Amazon series, but on the Penguins this year. >> Yeah. >> Actually, that, the Leafs too close to home. That, that'd be interesting. >> All right, we'll see. >> All right, when we come back, Joe Votto gives us a look into his life, like constantly, all over social media. >> Pending a letter. >> Yeah, this one was out of nowhere, weird. For many different reasons. >> Yes. >> We'll talk about, what's happening? >> What is going on? And, and, and yeah, whether you still write incursive or not, that and more next. As the fan morning show continues, Ben and his friend, Gunning, sports at 590, the fan. >> Hey, it's Aylish for a Fire. >> And I'm Justin Kupfried. >> Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. >> It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan, and wherever you get your podcasts. >> Ben morning shows, Sportsnet 590, the fan Ben and his friend Gunning. We'll see if Joey Votto's back in the Griffith League lineup today, this afternoon. Blue Jays resumed their Griffith League schedule after an off day yesterday. Joey Votto took the off day, took the time that he was afforded and grabbed the old quill. Like it might have actually been a quill that he used. >> I gotta be honest, I would not remotely put it past him. >> It's very strange, okay? Joey Votto on Twitter posted screenshots. So most people do this with notes, right? Like you got a long screen that you want to get off your chest. It's going to go past the character limit on X. You type it out on notes, take screenshot, and then you post maybe one, maybe two, maybe three different screenshots. >> That's how much you got to say. Your diet tribe. Joey Votto has seen that and says that's not for me. I'm a man that likes to put pen to paper. >> Again, pen is presumptuous. Quill and ink. >> Some sort of writing utensil to paper. >> To really hammer home the point, I'm surprised he didn't do it in blood. >> To really hammer home the point. >> And the paper is also, so it's not lined paper, but it's got a border on it. So for the life, it's not like printer paper. It literally looks like it's for writing, but not lined. Anyways, it's very strange. And it's written in cursive, which I guess I could write in cursive if you asked me to. I couldn't tell you the last time I wrote anything of significance really at all, but certainly not in cursive. So it's three pages. The long and the short of it, and everybody did the same thing on Twitter. We all saw your funny tweets about congrats on, that's too long for me to read congrats on if that thing is good or like, sorry that that happened to you. >> It's one of my favorite things to send to people when they're sending me too much in a text. >> Right, it's a lot. It is a lot. I did read it all. I'm not going to read it all to you right now, because I can distill it pretty easily down to, hey, he is once again revisiting the 2018 comments that he made after James Paxton threw no hitter at Roger Center, which is interesting context that people might have forgotten about why Joey Votto brought up Canada baseball, because he was asked about it. He was on a podcast, he was asked about like, hey, how cool a moment is that for Canada that this Canadian, albeit as a visiting player, came to Roger Center and threw no hitter. And he's like, I don't care about Canada baseball or James Paxton or the Blue Jays at all. Okay, so in this letter again, he's talking about revisiting that and how embarrassed and ashamed he was in the moment, and that he did do the media tour, the media blitz after that, including a one-on-one interview with Jamie Campbell. And that after that, in the immediate aftermath, his mother sent him a letter. Now I'm just telling you what he said, his mother sent him a letter. And at the moment, he was like, I'm a grown man, you can't tell me what to do or how to feel. But in the interim, in the six years that have passed since then, he has taken it more to heart and wanted to once again, apologize. So this is seemingly out of the blue, Joey Votto once again, opening those old wounds. And once again, apologizing to the people of Canada for those comments, why now? What's going on here, Brent? Because he's here. That's why now. If he was, if he, and I understand he wanted more of an opportunity, I'm sure he's happy to be here. But if some other team, pick your random ball club that does not matter, he wants to goose the home run total. So he's going to be a rocky. If he is a rocky, we're not hearing any of this. We're not seeing any of this. No granted, he's not getting peppered with questions about it. And it's not a topic of conversation around the Blue Jays. Because guess what, Joey Votto would be a rocky and we, well, I shouldn't say we, you'd be thinking about it. But we, the royal we would not be thinking about it. That's why now. It's because he's here. He realizes that one way or another, this is the final chapter. Maybe he signs a one day contract with a red or with the Reds or something. Sure. But this is the final chapter of him being a major league baseball player and apparently not one yet. Still a minor leaker according to him. And this is him trying to make it be as kumbaya as possible. I don't discount what he says. But if you're apologizing because people are asking for apologies, it just carries a little less weight. And I think he could have, he could have said this at any point in time. But he did. He said it in the immediate aftermath. He said it the next day, right? Like he apologized the next day. No, I'm saying all of this is coming out now because all of this is coming out now because he's a Blue Jays. And if he felt all this and said, hey, my mother took me to task and this is if he felt it was so important for us all to know this, then he could have said it at any point in time when he was getting not raked over the colds because most people don't think about this. But whenever it came up, he could any point in time, Joey Votto, he has a, he has a microphone in Canada baseball. He might not care about it, or at least he didn't at one point in time, but he can pick up the phone and get a message out there if he wants. He could have done this exact thing. And guess what? It wouldn't have been the one A story it is because he's a Blue Jay, but we still would have had this exact conversation. But he did that. Like he apologized and he needed an after all that. Well, that's, yeah. Okay. It's because I guess he's hearing this show or you know, the comments that are generally coming out of this country, because I will say what I did find that was conspicuously absent in all the Q and A's, the back and forth, the media scrums that Joey Votto has done since signing the minor league deal with the Blue Jays is like, that hasn't been brought up. Hasn't been a topic of conversation nearly at all. Right? I get it. It's a positive story. Joey Votto, which I think it generally is and bygones and bygones and and you know, the media not wanting to start off on the wrong foot with Joey Votto, a guy that they're trying to get, you know, to write stories about and continue to have a positive relationship with. I get it. Like you're not avoiding stories, but I just haven't seen that line of questioning happen for Joey Votto in any of these media availability since he signed the minor league deal with the Toronto Blue Jays. So what is happening here? How is this filtering back to Joey that this needs addressing again? I don't know. Like, I'm not discounting the posse. We just talked to Chris LaRue yesterday, who literally has been a teammate of Joey Votto's, has known him for 20 years as a texting relationship. Ryan Demster we had on last week also has a texting relationship with Joey Votto. We asked both those guys questions about how they felt about Joey Votto's relationship and his comments to the podcast people about Canada baseball. Do I discount the possibility that those comments were once, that were related to Joey Votto, that there's still a conversation to be had in this country about those feelings and there's still some hurt feelings in this country? I don't discount that possibility. I mean, that's the only reason I can come up with it because it seems overwhelmingly it's been a positive reception and I agree with the positivity surrounding Joey Votto just felt like this one out of the blue, out of nowhere. And that's the only thing I can, the only conclusion I can come to is that maybe not us specifically, but like, I will go as far as to say not us specifically. Yeah, but that there are conversations that are happening in this city and hasn't been here yet. I mean, he was here before he was signed, right? But that maybe that is impacting his need to get this off his chest. It does seem craven. I get it, right? Like for sure it does. But he, it's not the first time he's apologized and secondarily like, what does he need to do? So if, are you buying this? Like do you, does this, because you've been one of the people at the forefront of, well, Joey Votto hurt my feelings and I can never put the pieces of my heart back together. It's not quite how I'd phrase it, but sure. I think that's explicitly, that's word for word exactly what he said. I'll tell you how I phrase it after. Here's how I phrase it. It's that Joey Votto is not somebody told you this after the show yesterday. I spend an ordinary amount of time thinking about just not a part of my, my world, not sitting around thinking about the 26th bat who maybe can be more than that for the J's. But when I do think about him, this is still the first thing that comes to mind for me. And maybe that's not fair. Maybe it's not, but it still is for me. It appears craven. It goes back to what I said at the beginning. If he felt this way, he could have said it all along. Again, like he did say it. Like he did, he went up, this is just a letter that he put on it on Twitter. He was like, calling up Jamie Campbell was like, let's do a one on one. Hey, Canadian media station, let's talk. Like, I'm going to, I feel really bad about this. This was a stupid comment that I feel bad about. I don't want my country, my home country to feel that I betrayed them. I'm going to do my best to reverse that narrative. He did that. Yeah. And this is just a return to that. That's like reiterating what's also what's already been on the record for him. You're not wrong. He is doing his best. And I guess it's like everybody has there. So you're broken forever. It's broken forever. I don't really care that much. But if you're asking me to have a stance on this, then yeah, I'm going to think of the first thing he said, not the second and the third. And maybe that's nobody can ever like once you do a thing like, no, apologies. No, no, not a thing. It's, it's specific to the person. It's specific to my relationship with them. It's specific to the thing. If I don't know if, and he would never do this the part of why I love him so much. But if Sidney Crosby came out and had some comment along the lines, it's like, I'm sitting Crosby's one multiple gold medals. Yeah. But Joey Bono played for Canada twice in the world baseball class. But I have all of this goodwill of winning with you're asking me and I'm telling you, because different in your life, you're, you know, like your kid, you're going to have more time for them, making them a stake or screwing up than you will somebody else, like different people you just have different relationships with. And I think if you're somebody who is a little, you know, tilted toward Votto, or I don't want to say in the tank, because I don't think you look at this as an unbiased way. I don't mean you specifically, but the people who are willing to hear Votto's side of this, it's like, yeah, that's how you want to view it. I don't begrudge you. I'm not even saying he's wrong or he doesn't mean anything he's saying. It's just to me that all of it seems craving the humble Bronco shirt. When he was apologizing, it seems craving doing this. Incursive. It's like, yeah, he's just a quirky guy and it is who it is. But that also feels like everybody who was predisposed to wanting to buy into this, like, Oh, look, he sat down with a pen and paper and you don't know what else he's supposed to do. Like what not not have said, I don't care at all about candidates. Okay, that happened though. Okay. So that's it. So you're so let me just be on record here. There is nothing Joey Votto can do to reverse that comment or make you feel that he that he doesn't truly believe that it's already your mind is made up no matter what. Joey Votto can't do anything. Why even bother for you? The comment stands in perpetuity and there's no erasing it. I think there are ways to erase it. He's got a whole life ahead of him. If he really cares about Canada baseball, go prove it. And I'm not saying that means he's got to show up when he's 42 to play in the WBC. But if you really care about Canada baseball, and guess what? Hand up. I'm not going to pay attention and care about these things, but show me it in your retirement. Show me with what you do in your life. If you really care about it, don't write a letter about it. Don't go on sports net and tell Jamie Campbell, show me with your actions. Come on, you're a parent. Don't tell me how you feel. Show me. You know what he's doing? It's made $260 million in his entire career. Yeah, he's retiring and not doing anything. My chance on the country. Instead of just sitting like Scrooge McDucking yet, he's decided to go ride buses. He chose one team, right? Like anybody would have signed Joey Votto to a minor league deal. He called up Ross Atkins like, can I do it with your team? Because that's my hometown team. Because that's the team that I grew up watching. And I know you're giving me no assurances. I'm going to try and make your team, because that's the team I care about that has nothing to do with money, because I made all of it. Even if I make the major leagues, like, what is 3 million bucks to Joey Votto? But don't you think it has to do a little bit with legacy? Because he's doing this in part to legacy to the Canadian people? I guess it's how you view it. It's like, to me, it's like, yeah, it's more craven. It's like, man, like, so there's nothing you can do? I don't know. No, you're like a guy that's like, just prison is not for reforming people. It's just to punish people. Once you commit a crime, that's your criminal forever. No, show me the reform. What other than saying nice things? He's playing for the Blue Jays for free. Or trying to trying to. He's trying. Okay, but you also can't be blind to the fact that him being a Blue Jays, like, not that they're going to make a roster decision based on PR, but tie goes to the PR, like, you can't throw that part of it in as well. I don't want to. Let me let me hammer home this part of it. I care about this to the point when you ask me. I don't need to have a referendum on this. We're doing it now because he wrote the letter, but like, I'm happy to let sleeping dogs lie. He said the thing. I feel the way I feel. You've apologized now twice. We can move on. If the apology moved you out there, good. I'm happy. You're a better person than me, I guess. And if it didn't, then that's fine too. Go play baseball. And let's stop talking about it because you can do things to show that you care, but you've already said it. And if people are going to buy it, they're going to buy it. And if they're not, they're not. Yeah, aside from like, I don't know, donating half of his career earnings to like St. Mary's and Canadian baseball. Now we're talking. I don't know. Go back and go switch to collegiate. We went to high school. Now I was kids have enough. Yeah. Yeah, you're a lot of what you're saying makes sense, but I don't know. Like maybe I, I can't believe I'm doing like dad radio here, but it's like, I do feel differently about this as a parent. Like, show me, don't, don't years afterwards apologize now that we're here and you've got caught for lack of a better term. You have to, you have to have it come to roost. Show me. Yeah, he chose to play in his home country because his team he grew up. No, not because why? Well, because if if he was a, again, I'll pick on the Rockies for some reason, if all things post come to shove there and they're like, yeah, we have this other guy in the roster. We like a little better, they're going to take that other guy. But you think it's path to the major leagues is easier with the blue just because I 100% disagree. Like, I think they're, I think it is the organization where they were most looking at it with rose colored glasses opposed to everyone else look and not to say that they were going to bend over backwards to give them a spot he doesn't deserve or anything on those lines. But I do think of it as they're the organization far and away. I think it wants to be talked into this work in the mind and they might not need to. He might still just be good. And there's no talking into it required. I want to get that on record as well. I think what you clearly saw with him looking for a major league job and them deciding Daniel Vogelbach was a better shot than, than Joey Votto giving him guaranteed money is that the potential for an ugly exit with one of the country's best baseball superstars outweigh the potential upside after a guy's had two horrible offensive seasons. >> Okay, I know we have to go, but let me just ask you one more on this. >> Okay, what was your reaction? Like you seem to be very mad at me that I was irked by it. >> I want to get mad at you. Were you not mad when he said the thing? >> Yeah, I didn't like the thing. >> And that's not mad though, you're like, so you're just not coming at it to the same place. >> Because I also, I mean, I remember the home run off Jake Peevey in the world baseball classic. Like I know, like talking about taking action. Yeah, he's born when he didn't have to. Like Joey Votto didn't have to show up for the world baseball class. We talked to Ryan Demster. He finally showed up when his career was over. >> Hey, Joey Votto showed up in the middle of his Hall of Fame career and hit a home run off of one of the elite pitchers in the game at the time in a game that they ultimately lost at Rogers Center. Like one of the most memorable moments in world baseball classic history for Team Canada. Yeah, the comments sucked and didn't feel good. The apology in that moment felt a little craven, I admit. But then given the length and breadth of time, all the things that he said since arriving in Toronto, the clear motivation outside of money. And like, why would he do this and why would this franchise? And again, like that there's 29 other front, 28, because he's not going back to Cincinnati. But lots of different franchise would love to like, yeah, Joey Votto have a shot. Go play in the minor leagues. If nothing else, you're going to sell tickets to our minor league franchise. Yeah, all those things. Again, also, I think like at a certain point, what is he supposed to do? What else has he like, there's, he's playing for the Canadian franchise. He's apologizing a hundred times just at a certain point, like, yeah, what else is he supposed to do? So I'm closer to I was closer to over it before, but clearly not. I'm like, I don't think you're ever in it. I feel like you were like, Oh, that's that stinks. He shouldn't have said that. Oh, well, is how I feel. Not well, but I thought it was, it was telling that he did as much as he did post those comments. To try and rectify the situation in the moment. And then since then more, and then side of the minor league deal with the Blue Jays. Anyways, so come up again. It's good yelling. I like that. Maybe we'll talk to Adnan Burke about it, but we'll come back with you. I'm almost positive about that. And we'll see. When we come back, though, back into the Leafs, the fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
