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How Keira Rumble Transformed Health Challenges into Krumbled Group and Three Thriving Brands | #452

In this episode of Add To Cart, we chat with Keira Rumble, the founder of Krumbled Foods and the brains behind Aussie wellness brands Beauty Bites, Mini + Me and Habitual Beauty. Keira shares her journey from hand-rolling protein balls in her Bondi kitchen to building a thriving multi-brand business. She talks about how she hustled her way into 60 cafés, the tough lessons she learned protecting her IP and how getting hands-on with Meta ads has sparked massive growth for her brands. She also shines a light on the health challenges that inspired her brands and the realities of balancing family life while scaling.

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About your guest:

Australian mother, entrepreneur, and the founder of Krumbled Foods. Inspired by her own health struggles, Keira is on a mission to help others live healthier, happier lives. Her entrepreneurial journey began in her early twenties after being diagnosed as pre-diabetic, which led to the creation of the popular collagen snack, Beauty Bites. Along the way, Keira has faced personal challenges—including infertility, IVF, severe hyperemesis gravidarum, endometriosis, and mental health battles—which have shaped not only her resilience but the success of her brands Habitual Beauty and, most recently, Mini + Me.

About your host:

Nathan Bush is the host of the Add To Cart podcast and a leading ecommerce transformation consultant. He has led eCommerce for businesses with revenue $100m+ and has been recognised as one of Australia’s Top 50 People in eCommerce four years in a row. You can contact Nathan on LinkedIn, Twitter or via email.

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Duration:: 53m
Broadcast on:: 06 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

I'm surprised that you turned up after being, you know, network nine superstar this morning on The Today Show. It was a really great moment for me to learn that no one knows your business as well as you do. Yeah, I mean, we've got a 1600% year-on-year growth when I looked at we were doing this time last year. Welcome to Add to Cart Australia's leading e-commerce podcast that express delivers all you need to know in the fast-moving world of online retail. Here's your host, Bushy. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of Add to Cart. My name is Nathan Bush, or Bushy, joining you from the land of the terrible people here in Brisbane, Australia. Now, if you've listened to Add to Cart for long enough, you will know that the often outwardly glamorous e-commerce founder life is not always as it seems. We tend to get pretty raw and very honest here. And as we know, it is often messy, sometimes painful, and does require a huge amount of resilience to build a successful e-commerce business. And today's guest is the perfect example of this, creating not only one brand, but three successful e-commerce brands. Keira Rumble is the founder behind Crumbled Group, which includes three incredible brands, Kenny and me, habitual beauty, and beauty bites. These are manufactured in-house, sold D2C, as well as through partners such as Chemist Warehouse, Adore Beauty, and Sephora. Now despite a few bumps along the way, including a Supreme Court battle with the manufacturer and a series of personal health struggles, Keira's managed to grow these brands into a thriving business, all while raising a family and navigating the challenges of entrepreneurship. In this episode, we hear about Keira's journey from rolling protein balls in her Bondo Beach apartment through to scaling her business globally. We hear how Keira's own life experiences fueled the ideation behind each of her lifestyle brands. She tells us about how a major setback pushed her to bring production in-house, even though she'd never done it before, and how she juggles family life, personal growth, and her business expansion while staying true to herself and her customers. Keira is incredibly real and honest in her journey. There is so much inspiration and grit to come out of Keira's story. Before we get into it, two quick announcements. It's only one and a half weeks until our e-commerce social in Melbourne. We have an amazing panel, including Mike from Zero, Emily Elvi, Nathan from Pear, and Dom from Calibre, all joining us on the night, October 17th at the Corner Hotel in Richmond. Come join us, meet other ad-de-cart listeners, it's going to be a really fun night. We currently have the wait list available, all the links and details available over at ad-de-cart.com.au, and secondly, if you haven't already, I'd love to invite you to sign up for my weekly e-commerce newsletter. It is on our new platform, which I'm very excited about every Tuesday morning. I send it out with five must read e-commerce stories, research pieces, or case studies from the last week. You can sign up for that over at ad-de-cart.com.au/subscribe. Let's get into Kira's story. As always, a big thanks to our partners, Shopify and Deliverin' Person for making this podcast possible. Here it is, our conversation with Kira Rumbel, founder of Crumbled Group. Kira, welcome to Ad-de-cart. Thanks so much for having me. Oh, thanks for being here. Like, I'm surprised that you turned up after being, you know, a network nine superstar this morning on the Today Show. That was a big shock, like I was saying. I was on the floor with the kids, and then I get a call from my publisher saying, "15 minutes. You're on live TV." So, lucky I washed my hair last night. That's all I'm saying. How'd it go? Yeah, really good. Oh, they're always really quick. But yeah, power of doing things online and via Zoom. Yeah. Yeah, it was great. That's fun. Was it Carl? Or was Carl on holidays? No, he wasn't there. But luckily, I'm good friends with one of the hosts, so it was nice to see her face. Yeah, awesome. Okay. Good stuff. I'm going to hear all about your journey and the story of Crumble. Now, three beautiful brands, and it's been a lot of fun to research because you've got such a rich story, and I think you're doing any comments a little bit differently from most, especially around the content and the storytelling of those three brands. Do you have a favorite? Can you pick one? That's like asking what child of mine is my favorite, which my father-in-law asks me all the time, actually? Everyone can do that, like really, we just don't want to say it. No comment. I think for me, the biggest focus for me at the moment is mini-a-me, which is our newest brand, and that is definitely where a lot of my attention is. Yeah, okay. So give us the backstory. How did Crumble come to be? Where did the idea come from? I guess with all of the brands that have been created, it really follows along my own life cycle. I always laugh that I should have called Crumble Group, which is our umbrella company life cycle. Basically, I was diagnosed as pre-diabetic. I couldn't find any health food products that were healthy, especially at the time. I was taking note of what was going overseas with the trends, notice of collagen, and that functional snacking space was really up on the rise. How many years ago were we talking? This was, I started Crumbled in 2014, but I didn't really launch beauty bites until 2017, 2018. Okay. Definitely, I was hand rolling protein balls in my kitchen in Bondi Beach, and it was very much, even though I really disliked the whole hustle culture, it was very much that, in between my lunch breaks at work and all of that sort of stuff. But yeah, I definitely decided that I wanted to commercialize it and put it on a commercial scale, and that sort of led me into the world of owning your own business. Amazing. What were you doing before Crumbled? What's the pathway to that? I was an EA for a digital buying company, but I didn't really have too much knowledge in terms of what they were actually doing. It was more of the EA sort of work, so I always knew that I really wanted to go out on my own, but I just didn't really have that passion, and I kind of just fell into it with my own health journey. Gotcha. And when you're rolling protein balls in your kitchen in Bondi, what gave you the confidence to go, actually, I can commercialize this, like, this is going to be bigger than a home job. We sort of saw, so my partner and I own it together, who's also the father of my children, which is, it's amazing having a business with your partner, but it also has its challenges. God love him. I guess I saw a huge growth straight away, and when I think about the growth back then, it's definitely not on the scale that we've seen it today, but we went from one cafe to 60 cafes in a matter of weeks, and it was just to the point where I had to quit my full-time job because I couldn't keep up with rolling balls all night and all weekend. So, yeah, it was sort of at that point where I said, "I can't, I'm working very much in the business. I need to start working on how to actually make this a career." Yeah. And where did that initial growth come from? Was that a local community, or, because I know you did a lot of content leading up to that, was it that you already had an existing community around you? It was just me co-calling to cafes, and just, yeah, and I hate that sort of stuff, and I look back going, "How did I even do that?" But I guess I was just hungry, and I am very hungry, and I am very stubborn, which I've been since I was a little girl, so I guess that's one of my driving forces. Do you remember what the pitch was? Taste these. Taste is obviously definitely the first and foremost with all of our products that are sort of edible, because I was very much instillum, very much, of the belief that healthy food doesn't have to be boring or unappealing. Yep. Talk us through that. Like, how do you differentiate crumbled in market? Obviously, there's three brands, and since that time, since 2014, we've had so many more brands enter the space with collagen, snackables, all that kind of area. How do you maintain a differentiator? The biggest factor for us is taking people along with a journey. People are invested, and I guess that's sort of being part of the success that we've seen with Minnie and me. I was really sick during my pregnancies, and that was the whole reason why we started Minnie and me, which is our hero product, it's HydroMama, which is an electrolyte drink. It was initially designed for pregnancy and postpartum, but what we've seen is 50% of our customers are actually just dehydrated, burnt out parents or females, mainly, and it's sort of, we've taken people along with a journey. I've been quite strategic with drip feeding information, getting them on board with different flavour profiles that they want to see from us, and it's sort of been intertwined with all of the brands and products that we sort of want to launch, and I think building that community through my own platform has just been a really key driver. Yep, and do you find pressure, because it's funny to see the evolution of the products through your life journey, as you said, do you feel pressure to kind of keep sharing your life and your personal journey as the company grows and expands? Sometimes I definitely experience burnout, and last year I was definitely very much burnt out. I've got late diagnosis with ADHD, and I really experienced huge burnout and postpartum depression, and I think that was a bit of a moment where I was sort of pulling back from talking so much about the businesses and sharing more of that real life journey, and that was something that I've done since for many, many years when I was going through infertility, which led me into habitual beauty, which is our skincare brand. And I think that I just have to be conscious, and if I do feel burnt out, I literally just pull back and just don't post and don't share. And now we've built the business up so our meta can support us when I just take a step back and take some time offline so I can then just work on the other bits and pieces in the business. Yeah, okay. It's really interesting because before our chat, you said that you're part of the e-commerce equation group, and you're around other founders, and some of them we've had on the podcast, like Stacey from Lust, and who else did we say Laura from Snoddy Knowsers? And I think these conversations have come up a lot, especially for founder-led businesses who've started with personal profiles, and just doing what you've got to do to spread the word and get people involved, at what point do you step away as the faith of it? I think I'll always be the face, 100%, because we've tried doing more UGC-led-style things. We've tried having different personalities within the business, but what sells really for us is when I step in, and it's always that lo-fi style content that I create just on a whim that's not even thought out or scripted that actually performs the best, which equally kills me, but also is giving me that satisfaction seeing the nice return and the nice juicy profit. But it's sort of, I think I'll always be part of the business, but it's about picking where my time is best spent, because especially having two small kids. I can't be posting on my own socials every single day, but a year ago, I absolutely was, and we were in a very different position now in the business to where we were even a year ago, and yeah, we joined E.E. and I took things in-house, and it's just been literally life-changing for the business and us. Great, I'd love to unpack that a little bit more, because it's a hot topic for many E-commerce owners at the moment, around agency versus in-house on OJ at E.E. and does amazing work and has much a strong community, like it's an amazing community. What did you learn through joining E.E.? I guess the biggest thing for me, and this sort of brings it back to, so we had a product called Crumballs that we launched before Beauty Bites, they flocked. I thought I needed to go out to a broker, I needed to go out to all these external sources to sell my product, and what actually sold the product was me. And that's not tooting my own horn, it's just because people love to hear founder stories and they love to have that connection. And so we went from the cafe style balls to commercializing the Crumballs, and then we just pulled it from the market, and I lost a lot of money and decided, "Okay, Beauty Bites, that's going to be our golden ticket and that golden nugget." And it was a really great moment for me to learn that no one knows your business as well as you do. And I think if you don't have an understanding of what exactly is going on, then how are you going to be able to understand all of these reports and things like that. So we went through agencies for meta, and look, I don't have anything against agencies, and I think that they are incredible and they can be life-changing, but where we were seeing we had no new customer acquisition, we were not seeing the growth, we decided to go and manufacture in-house just over a year ago. And so we had huge overheads and we were breaking even. And it was so stressful for us as a business, I returned from maternity leave after three weeks, because we were struggling to pay rent, how are we going to pay our overheads. And I think once I started really understanding how that whole world worked, it was when we started seeing that shift. Because on the outside, it seems counterintuitive, right, is that you've got a founder like yourself, such a strong personal profile, amazing content, great story, you know, you can reach people on mass, right. And then if you need to turn around and go, actually, I'm going to stick my head into a computer and work out how this meta works and get deep in this from a traditional standpoint and be like, oh, that doesn't make any sense for you to do that. But from a control perspective, it does right. We had Simon Beard on a couple of weeks ago, and he was talking about that. He was like, my number one advice for founders is never get your head out of the meta and the Google accounts. Yeah, yeah, and I made excuses the whole way through it, why I didn't have time to do it. And now I make it, make sure I have enough time to do it, because the days where, you know, the kids are sick and I don't get enough time to go and have a look, because, you know, life gets in the way, there are simple things that I haven't done that make a direct impact. So being able to have that time, it's giving so much more money. And now we do have the ability to hire a junior or hire more people or hire more packers. And it was a bit of a interesting thing watching me have this internal conversation and argument going, I don't have time, but do you really have time? You're not really making money. You're going to have to sell. What are you going to do after that? So it's sort of, it was really a huge conversation that I had. And I'm really glad that my partner actually just said, just do it. What have you got to lose? Hmm. Awesome. And when you're in there today, managing the ad accounts, where are you spending most of your time? Is it on the creative? Is it on placement? Is it on reporting? It's just optimising. We are scaling so fast. It's actually to the point where downstairs in the warehouse, they're like, let's just slow down so we can build stock up for Black Friday. But I have been setting some pretty aggressive targets. They're stealing your laptop off you so you can't log in. Yeah. Yeah. But it's mainly optimising, but what's actually really been working for us is just trying to see what works and we're trying to grow in terms of different avatars at the moment and just trying to fill that funnel up as much as we can with different sort of creatives and different avatars and seeing what sticks. And obviously I've got crumbled, I've got mini in me, then we've got habitual beauty. And so it's about trying to find the right time across all three brands. What do you mean by different avatars? So I mean, for instance, you know, the typical pregnant person. But then who else is that? Is that someone that has kids that love cola? We've just launched a new cola flavour that tastes like cola loli bottles. And you know, is that something that a 10 year old boy would want to drink? So how do we convert the mum with the sun that's not necessarily pregnant? And so it's about trying to lean into those avatars and try and find what works and then tapping into a slightly older demographic with beauty bites and seeing how that works. That's awesome. It's like using your known audiences to find out where the halo audiences could be around those poor. Yeah. And get that additional reach that we aren't necessarily getting at the moment. Yeah. Okay. And are there any particular creatives or channels that you're finding are really powerful right now to fuel that growth? Was your last e-commerce experience blazery or beautiful online retailers have dozens of touch points with shoppers, but the delivery experience is the one touch point that stays with shoppers far beyond the checkout pitch of this. You've purchased a product you love online. It's crickets until you come home to find a sad looking, dented package left unattended at your door. Sometimes that's all it takes to turn anticipation into heartbreaking frustration. How can you tell if this is happening to your customers? NPS or net promoter score is a critical indicator. The average NPS in e-commerce is just 50 delivering person, the delivery experts who create remarkable post purchase experiences consistently gets around 98 NPS. Delivering person has already helped brands such as July, Samsonite, the party people be even more adored by their customers. How can they help you turn the last mile into the first smile that shoppers have when they think about your brand? Find out at deliverinperson.com. We haven't even dabbled in TikTok. It is just my big problem child because I do not have time, but there I go again saying I don't have time. But right now I just really want to dominate meta and really understand I'm still learning. I've been with EE for pretty much a year and I'm learning every single day and it's so rapidly changing. But TikTok is my next big challenge. And yeah, it's just really working with, at the moment we're testing, going back and testing influencers, so back when influencers in the heyday, beauty bites, we use them all the time. We had an influencer manager. It wasn't always on. But we again were just breaking even, so it was kind of like we need to work a little bit smarter in that approach and you'd go and go, "Okay, well I'm going to pay X amount of money for this huge influencer," and then they're a flop. But then you think, "Okay, this influencer will be great." So it's about trying to get the right balance of topping up the funnel, getting the conversions to keep your float and it's sort of that fine line. But yeah, influencers were dabbling in and really just meta focused and obviously email marketing. Yeah. And you're finding that you're still getting decent returns on meta because obviously that's a theme that's coming through over the last 12 to 18 months is the decreasing returns on meta versus where people were getting, are you finding that it's holding up okay? Yeah. I mean, we've got a 1,600% year-on-year growth when I looked at what we were doing this time last year. So, and obviously there's a lot contributing to that. There's so many more ads, there are a lot more campaigns. I'm being really, really diligent with what I'm putting out there. But I just think that, yeah, it's working for us right now. We've got a great product. Us manufacturing has helped us with that ability to scale. And honestly, when you think about what has been that pivotal moment for us, it's obviously me taking the ads in-house, but it's us manufacturing. Yeah, okay. And taking people along with that journey. Talk us about that decision because that seems like a big thing. Well, it obviously is a big thing to take manufacturing in-house, especially for food. Are you doing it across food and beauty? No, I will never do skinny hair. Yeah, no. We were kind of forced into it. We actually lodged Supreme Court documentations with our old contract manufacturer. So we learnt, I've got a whole book on what not to do that I could write because we've learnt the hard way in so many different occasions, which so many founders can resonate with. But, yeah, we found out that our manufacturer, that was a confectionary manufacturer that had the right machinery, who had no idea how to use health food products. We taught him everything. We had the right NDAs and he was then springboarding our IP for another brand. And so, yeah, we went to court. It was extremely expensive. I think it was in our second year of having beauty bites. So we kind of just, my partner Anthony and I just looked at each other and said, "Fuck this. We just, we need to take control." And my thought process is, rather than paying a percentage per product or per unit that you're manufacturing or contract manufacturing, we'll be paying the wages, so I'll have that better ability to scale. But obviously, that's good in theory and it took a very long time for us to be able to get the funds, we're self-funded, and to really get the confidence in what we were doing. So, yeah, it took a very long time for us to do it, and it's been a huge undertaking, but, yeah, it's been really, really key for us. Awesome. And where are you manufacturing? Whereabouts are set up? On the Central Coast, which is where we live in New South Wales, yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. That moment where you found out that your manufacturer was taking the piss must have been pretty crazy. How'd you find out? He told us. Oh. Well, in his eyes, what he was doing was not wrong because he needed to make a living to his words verbatim. Wow. Yeah. And look, we are very, very reasonable people, but when we've spent so much money with incredible food techs and leading specialists, and one of the biggest things that sets beauty bites apart because this is really what beauty bites it was to do with beauty bites and crumbles, because we have a new formulation for crumbles, we just haven't launched it, is the taste and the texture, and we've had one of our biggest retailers who we used to be ranged in, try and do their own brand of our product and put it alongside us. And then they realized, okay, well, they've got a really, really loyal customer base who were literally sending us messages going, I can't believe we're seeing this. And then literally grabbing our whole 14 pack where you're meant to just buy one bar and putting it in their cart. So it's really backfired with them, but the biggest thing for us was they couldn't compete on the taste. And the taste has been one of our biggest things, so that's our IP. So we knew pretty straight away, but we said, okay, well, don't do it again. We sent them a letter. If we find out you're doing this again, this is what we'll be doing. And then we found out a few months later that they were still doing it. So... I hope you think we're some stuff. Yeah, but you know, it's so funny because the more I speak to founders, the more I realize this happens every single day and I used to feel really isolated thinking is this just us, but it's not. Yeah. Yeah. It has having your own manufacturing capabilities. Has it kind of opened up a bit of a playground for you or do you have to remain pretty disciplined? I guess we have had better opportunities to do innovation. And one of the biggest things that we were finding is our speed to market was really slow. So being able to have the opportunity to have better innovation and better speed to market, but my partner Anthony has got a very expensive habit, which is buying machinery. So we have three machines that are just sitting in our warehouse that have not been turned on for products that he would love to do. So I was actually joking last night, he's like, I really want to buy this. And I'm like, where will it fit? And so now we're at the point where we need to actually go and buy land and actually purpose build a factory because we're at capacity. Which is just crazy to even think this, considering where we were a year and a bit ago. That is amazing how quickly things can turn around. And it's also quite scary. So this is why I'm really, I'm quite, I like to take risks, but also I'm quite conservative. So I've even noticed that I like to push the account, but I'm also quite conservative. So I'll only be nudging it a little bit. And then, you know, seeing and waiting and observing and reviewing and reporting. So I like to dabble in a bit of both sides, but he, our main goal is to get our own factory, get our land and then grow as we grow. That world of manufacturing is so removed for me, I've got no experience in that world. How do you just shop around for machines that can make different products? Like where do you even get them from? So we went to Europe, not I, I didn't go to Europe, but I was sick with my hyper-emesis, which I get during my pregnancy with a toddler at home and my partner went over to Europe to go. Sounds like you're cool with it though. I was really happy for him to go on that work trip. But yeah, we have got, you know, people in connections in that industry and he literally just spent a long, long time on YouTube speaking to suppliers and went over. And we bought a machine for Hydra Mama that we thought would be able to survive us for three years of capacity, you know, we set out sort of forecasts and within, I would say once I started to nudge the account a little bit, it was to the point where we outgrew that machine really quickly. So now we've got a new machine, which is 10 times the capacity, but it's to the point with now we're bottlenecked at the packing. So now how do we automate that? So it's so much that goes on and I, because we asked all such a lean team, it's part of my day. So my day really is just, I get to the end of each day going, I have not even done my to-do list because I've been dealing with the warehouse and all of that sort of stuff. And yeah, it's a huge undertaking. So definitely, you know, it could make or break you. And it definitely nearly broke us before we started really seeing that growth. And the growth that you're seeing, is it all D to C, because I know you mentioned that you're stocked in retail and that you've got chemist warehouse, a door beauty, Sephora, all on board, amazing names, stocking your products, where's the growth coming from? Is it from retail or D to C? Primarily D to C. So we used to have quite a retail focus. We launched into price line for beauty bites and then a few months later we launched into Coles nationally and that was just huge and we thought we had made it. Well, we did make it. That was just the biggest moment for us. It was during COVID. It was, you know, when people were literally only able to go to the supermarket. So it was great for us in terms of, you know, being able to have that brand presence on the shelves. I guess for us, because we are such a lean team, we are limited with resources to have that account manager. So I'm doing all of the account management. So for me, my focus is very much shared between the D to C and then the retail focus. But yeah, I absolutely adore our retail partners, but it's hard to find the right time to really nurture them. So that's a big focus for me for Q1 next year. What's their reaction when you tell them that you're manufacturing everything in ours? Is that normal? I don't know. If it's normal. I mean, it does have our challenges. I mean, our supply chain, I mean, we had chocolate that was stuck on a train because of a derailment. And you know, then that held up, you know, us being able to have correct diaphragt and good diaphragt. And it was just, I was getting in trouble a lot from the buyers and the supplier planners because we had no stock to give them. So there's that whole challenge, but there's no way we would be able to have that scale and the growth without manufacturing. So they kind of understand it. And then having that meeting with them to say, well, this is what we've got on the horizon. And these are the products. I think they're quite excited to be able to see that innovation in the pipeline. Yeah, that's very cool. I saw that you did the Sephora Accelerator Bootcamp. That sounded pretty next level from what I read. How was that for you? And what did you learn from that experience? That was a really crucial moment for me because it kind of reaffirmed my position as a female founder. I'd actually pitched it habitual beauty the year before and the whole story is quite sad. I was actually going through a miscarriage and I found out that day, so my whole pitch was completely railroaded and I just flocked in the interview. And I didn't really want to go in and tell them, oh, this is why I flocked in the interview. I sort of thought, OK, this is a blessing in disguise. We hadn't at that point launched beauty bites. So I thought, sort of thought, OK, I need to go do this and then I'll come back and obviously I didn't get it. And then the next year or the year after, they came back to me and they say, we think the concept of habitual beauty is genius. Can you please reapply? And I was in Morocco doing travel content because crumbled foods were still not obviously sustaining to pay our rent and pay our mortgages and everything like that. And we were in Morocco and I remember just doing this pitch and it was just quite surreal because my Instagram essentially funded crumbled foods for a very, very long time. And yeah, I was really fortunate and then COVID happened. So I was meant to have flown out to San Fran and been part of all of these incredible female founders. But yeah, it was just so wonderful to be able to be in a room or zoom with these incredible other female founders that were all in that beauty space, some in tech and just to have that, you know, enthusiasm for what they were doing and that passion. So it was a really great moment and then we obviously launched into Sephora for habitual beauty. Amazing. What did you learn about yourself? Because obviously there's the inspiration that you get from being around other female founders, but is there something, especially with that program, but also with EA, where you can look around and go, I think I've got a bit of a secret source or a secret ability in this area that sets you apart. I think I have what I know a lot of people have is very much that imposter syndrome where I think that, do I? But I know I do and I think that that's sort of, you know, part of what I need to work on and that's what I'm working on at the moment is I'm setting high target. So I'm actually, I know what I'm talking about. So how do I actually really own this space and that's what my biggest focus is for at least this year since I've actually really started to scale the businesses. Amazing. It's just an awesome story and I love it. And there's so many founders out there that I know will be listening to this and the experiences that you've been through, both personal and in the business with Anthony is they'll be taking a lot of inspiration from this. I'd love to get e-com nerdy with you if you're all right with that because I was stalking your site and there was a couple of really interesting things that I'd love to. The site is my beta, my existence, which it has a really great conversion rate. So everyone is telling me, don't touch it, but the design is killing me. But let's go. Come on. Let's do a. Let's roast your site. Well, what's the part of the site that you. I just feel like it needs to come into 2024. Really? I didn't get that. But that's, you know, that's just me. But is that very, very critical person? Every day. Probably. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So from an outsider's perspective, beautiful site, easy to navigate. I can see why the conversion is doing its thing. Yeah. Really interesting that you've got crumbled foods and mini-me together on one site. Was there a reason because I'm doing a project at the moment with a global supplements brand to bring together their brands onto one site, which is a really fascinating project, especially when you look at the pros and cons of doing that. Was there a reason you did it mini-me as a sub-brand of crumbled brands online, not at own site? So there's a few answers. What I know about my consumers is that they all shop amongst all the brands. And the reason to leave habitual beauty out was because it is that high price point. But what I know is we have a lot of mothers that shop beauty bites and crumbled foods and all of the products there. So it made sense to be able to have that combined basket. And what I really wanted to do was optimize an upsell in that overall average order value. So that was kind of my thought process. Any thought of actually setting up another entity or so I just didn't have the energy to do. So kind of fell underneath there. We also didn't know how successful mini-me would be. Mini-me is by far the most profitable and most highest revenue business that we've got out of the three businesses. Wow. I want to pick that from the outside. Yeah. So that's kind of been, I mean, that's why the URL is crumbled foods and it points from mini-me.co. So I guess that was sort of a huge moment for us to realize, okay, mini-me doesn't necessarily have the same credibility for people that know crumbled and crumbled foods. But it's really gaining momentum. I mean, we're endorsed by the Australian College of Midwives now. We've got obstetricians and gynecologists that stock their products. So it's kind of really dominated in that health space and it's become that authority in the electrolyte business. That's cool. The SEO impact in terms of having both brands on one side, do you find any difficulty there? I think that calling a business mini in me definitely had its challenges because there are a lot of mini-me brands, but obviously we got the right trademarks and all of that sort of stuff. But it did to a degree, but again, we weren't expecting it to go as well as it did. So I think that people are now searching more of the product name, Hydra Mama, which is giving, doing the heavy lifting. Yeah. Got you. Because of that customer overlap, even though they're different categories and very different products, do you ever cross market between crumbled and mini-me and habitual? Like do you go between those brands? Yes, we are definitely going to be focusing more on that. We've got a few products that are launching for habitual beauty in the next quarter, hopefully, that we will be focusing a little bit more on because again, it's pregnancy safe skincare. So the overlap is there, but we just didn't think that we needed to. But I do go back and forth, figuring out whether or not we should then combine habitual beauty into the same website. So that's sort of another internal discussion I'm tossing up with, but yeah, we definitely cross-promoting, especially having the ability to dispatch. We are putting products into each order across all brands as a surprise and delight. It's cool. That's cool. Because I could imagine there is also the risk too of having those brands known as just pregnancy brands, what we discussed before, there's a halo well beyond, but they are pregnancy safe, but it has so many uses and appeals beyond pregnancy. Yeah. And that comes down to education, right? So we have a big focus on having expert-led content and having the educational sort of angles do the heavy lifting. And what we're finding is, you know, it's about building that support and that trust, which is sort of what we're all about because in the first and foremost, I would rather people feel good about, you know, say drinking something to help with morning sickness or help with a pregnancy fatigue or dehydration headache than tell people about it 24/7. So what we have created though is that word of mouth, but what I really wanted to try and educate people first and foremost, and then that will do the selling and the heavy lifting. Of course. I love that you've got a kind of like an ecosystem of brands that are working with each other, rather than having three separate babies, living in separate houses. Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's also must work for me too. So. Oh my God. All power too. That's fantastic. One of the functions that I loved on the site that I haven't seen anywhere else was on the product pages. You got the cards, Shopify site, standard, but then also in the product page embedded, you've got add another flavor for 5% off, which was really smart. And so you go in and add another flavor and then I got the message that if you want to add another flavor, there's another 10% off. I understand that's not always the case, but I felt it was really nice because it wasn't like there was this big pop up smashing you in the face to say, Hey, add another item to cart was just integrated into the product messaging and flow. How'd you come up with that design? Remember Alex and Danny from Kalani Keeney's? We interviewed them back on Episode 208. Good news. Kalani Keeney's have continued their incredible growth with new international markets, social engagement and well, let's not beat around the bush, beautiful bodies. So when they looked to expand their business further with their B2B offering, they weren't going to slip into dad bod territory. They needed the experience to be as good, if not better, than the D2C experience. That's why they opted for Shopify Plus's B2B offering with customized collections based on size availability, mass add decart from collection pages and optimized conversion design. The result? A three times growth in B2B wholesale customers and a 60% revenue growth year on year. Talk about pleasing to the eye and to the accountant. If you want to explore B2B expansion for your brand, check out shopify.com/au/plus and get in touch with the Aussie Shopify Plus team to see how Shopify Plus can power your B2B business. What I was noticing was people asking for a multibyed and with say, Hi, Dremama, I was noticing that people were wanting a mixed variety pack and for us to do a mixed variety pack would just be a logistical nightmare for the packers and then that would be additional cartons that you'd have to be buying. The idea of increasing that basket size whilst also catering to people's needs and desires, we wanted to create something that would allow them to get the discount, which would help them, but then also make our life easier. It seems to be working really, really well, but during key sale periods, we turn it off and we don't always have it on because obviously that eats into your profit margin. Yep. Speaking of promotions, your golden ticket promotion looked like a lot of fun. I feel like most brands have this idea of like, especially ones who found us grow up who are watching Charlie and the Chocolate Factory going, wouldn't it be amazing if we could do a golden ticket, but I've been in enough brainstorming sessions where people think about it and they go, "Oh, logistically, we can't do it." There's a thousand reasons you can't do a promotion like that. It'll work out exactly like you hoped it would. I'm still waiting on the actual data, but it was fun. It created a point of difference, and we did see more community engagement on the socials, but yeah, it'll be interesting to see what the sales uplift was from the retailer, but the girls were joking. They had on Kmart a Willy Wonka outfit and they're like, "Oh, can you wear that next week?" And I'm like, "Absolutely not." But they said that they bought it, but I haven't had it on my desk to wear. So I guess that was a dodgeable at there, but yeah, I mean, we have a chocolate factory, so for us to not do something like that, there's definitely things we learn on what not to do and how to sort of have better communication in terms of people didn't quite understand that there would be a physical golden ticket of the winning ticket in there. So just having better teas and seas with really clearly explaining not every bar would have like a barcode that you would need to redeem. But I love that because I hate those promotions now, because remember when you're a kid, you'd open up the chips and there'd be a Tarza or there'd be something physical or you'd open up the back of the cereal and you could see if you're a winner or not straight away. And now it's like, scan this QR code or enter this URL, give us 100 points of data and you'll find out whether you're a winner or not. I just love that it's just there. You're a winner or not. Yeah. Well, it's that typical Willy Wonka style with that literal golden ticket that you've got to find. Yeah, I was like, isn't that clear with the whole Willy Wonka style theme? But anyway, we definitely need to make it more clear and concise next time. There you go. Were all the tickets found? Not yet. We've still got two in circulation apparently. Okay. There you go. So what else is on the cards for the website? If you had your way and you had more time in the world, what would you be changing? Look, it's just more about the design element. I think there, because we have done add-ons and things like that, I think just bringing me into really, by the time I do it, 2025. And I think just really honing in more on that user generated side of things too. What I've loved about our conversation is how honest you are around your journey, both personally, but as a business owner, especially. And I think that will be really refreshing for a lot of people. But also how you've made your business work for you. And it feels like you've come to this through a lot of hardship and a lot of lessons along the way, whether that is taking your manufacturing in-house, taking the advertising in-house, putting two sites on one, because it makes it easier for you. Yep. If you've got other founders out there at the moment who are really struggling to make their business work for them, what would be your advice for them to be able to take a step back and change things? I think if I think about what I did in the very early days, I was glued to YouTube and I just wanted to be a sponge and learn as much as possible. I did the coding. I built all the websites up until recently myself. We very much bootstrapped it. And I think being able to have that faith, that things you can do and you can achieve if you apply itself. And even just doing SEO, we were doing up until recently. And I think being able to really trust the process and it will get harder before it gets easier. I mean, I found my business where my ABN registered for 10 years and we've only in the past year really started to see the benefit and not the joys, because it's always been joyful, but it's been slightly less stressful in the past year, just purely because we've been able to have that ability to grow the team, which we really need to do. Yeah, cool. And what part of the business do you get the most joy out of? Obviously, you do so much across the business. We talked about you negotiating with retailers through to being into the ad accounts. What part lights you up the most? Probably the product development. I think that's where my wonderful ADHD brain really is the strong point of the business with, you know, where I'm constantly thinking of ideas. I've got so many other brands that I want to launch, but I'm sitting put on them. I just think, yeah, the product development and that creative sort of direction of the business is where I really excel in, and I'm very much still in the business. I am doing accounts, I am doing, you know, paying invoices and all of that stuff that really I shouldn't be doing at the point where I'm now in my sort of founder career, but I would rather go on hire machine operators to make the factory life better and for me to do this stuff that I don't necessarily love right now, because it's my business and I can do it. That makes sense. And do all three brands, do you think have a lot of room for product expansion or do you need to start new brands to expand product? Oh, we've got so many products that we want to launch for all brands. The opportunities for, especially within the female sort of pregnancy space is just endless. So that's sort of my biggest focus for the next product launches that we've got coming out, hopefully before Black Friday. Yeah, how's Black Friday shaping up? Yeah, I'm so pumped. I haven't, yeah, I'm really, really excited. We have got some pretty gnarly targets, which scared the boys downstairs with what they need to do for production, but yeah, I think that this year we really wanted to dedicate myself and Anthony to really focusing on the business and, you know, obviously we don't have a great work-life balance. Obviously once I come home, I'm very present with the kids and in the weekends I am, but we've had to make a lot of sacrifices. So we want to go big or go home. Great. And because you do have limited time, it's been a theme that's come through. Everything we've talked about today, young family, three businesses, what are your non-negotiables around time? Where do you draw the line? I think just trying to switch off as much as it's hard, especially having social media is one of your main selling points, but trying to put the phone down when you're with the kids. That's been my biggest thing that I've been trying to work on. That's pretty much my non-negotiable and just, you know, that inner critic that I have is trying to just quieten down that and really focus on what I've excelled in and having sort of those visions and those goals in front of me. Yeah. I could imagine with you, I have it, but it would be on a much smaller scale than what you've got. When you've got so much opportunity ahead of you and you leave the end of the day and you're still buzzing with different ideas and things that you would like to do to grow the business and then you step into family life and you're like, actually, I just have to step all that because they want me to look at the painting that they did today or tell me about the Pokemon that they found and I've got to be there for that. Yeah. I'm lucky I've got, well, I don't love it, but I've got a 40-minute drive home. So I use that time. I normally call my friend or decompress and really try and do a bit of a verbal output on terms of what happened that day or just listen to a podcast and try to digest what has happened. But then, you know, I really wish that there was some sort of app that I could actually start dictating notes to through my Apple Play. I'm sure there is actually. And just download it all. And just download it all and then put it into two lists. Here you go. In the next day. Someone will take that. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Damn it. Don't have another big beauty. No, it's going to do tech. I'm going to do product focused. Keri, you've given us some great insights there, but what's next? If we look at the next 12 months, how far you've come in the last 12 months, what's your ambitions, what are the big projects, big achievements you want to tick off for the next 12 months for yourself and crumbled group? I think just scaling the business but doing it in a sustainable way and making sure that we don't peak too soon. But yeah, I think what we're doing is obviously all in the right direction, but I think it's just about growing the business, growing the team, expanding our product offering and yeah. Is there any eyes internationally, like in terms of is that where most of the growth will come from or do you see it locally? I think the domestic market still offers a lot of opportunity. We tried exporting during COVID and during COVID, it was just not successful for us. So I am quite cautious to export again, but there's definitely some countries that we've been having meetings with that have got quite a high interest. I recently went to China last year with a five month old baby strap to me for an expo, which was joyful. It was a lot, but yeah, definitely there are some opportunities that we are exploring, but I really think that the domestic market offers so much opportunity that we haven't even tapped into yet. Awesome. I'm super pumped. I love your story. I love what you're doing. I love your philosophy around business and making it work for you. How can people get in touch if people want to know more about crumbled group, maybe visit some of the brands and if you're open to it, people getting in touch with you to share stories. What's the best way to go about that? So it's Kira Rumble, so it's Crumble with a K. Your name was made for it, right? I know. I know. We've also had some really fun trademark infringements on the whole crumble thing lately, which has been joyful, but yeah, Kira also Crumble, K-R-U-M-B-L-E is my Instagram and then Crumbled Foods is the beauty barks in the collagen supplements and then miniandme.co is our miniandme brand and then habitualbeauty.co is habitualbeauty. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story so far with us today, Kira. It was awesome to chat. Great to meet you. Love what you're doing. Yeah. Thanks again. Thanks, thanks. That chat surprised me in so many ways in research for my conversation with Kira. I actually went through and researched and listened to a lot of the podcasts and interviews that she'd done before, and it was really great to not only cover Kira's journey in our episode, but also the ins and outs of e-commerce and we had a little chat after our conversation around how good it was for her as well to be able to talk about the nerdiness of e-commerce as well as her personal journey, which is inspirational. But there is so much more to Kira's story than what you might see on the outside. So incredible journey so far here are my main takeaways from our discussion. Number one, the first 60 cafes. On the outside and if you're new to the brand, Crumbled looks like the typical social and influencer playbook, but the reality was that it was a grind at the start and is always going to be a bit of a grind. But Kira began her business by hand rolling protein balls in her kitchen while working full time. As demand grew, she went from supplying one cafe to 60 cafes in just a few weeks, prompting her to quit her job and focus on the business. Securing those first 60 cafes, not 60,000 followers, the first 60 cafes were the key to getting business off the ground. I think that shows how relentless you need to be in your initial focus on the metrics that matter to gain that initial traction. Number two, protect your IP. Kira and her team discovered that the manufacturer was using their proprietary processes and ingredients to create a competing product. Everyone's nightmare. They filed legal action but ultimately decided to bring manufacturing in-house to maintain control. While it is difficult when you are running at full speed and managing a fast growing business, it is so important to make sure you protect your most valuable IP through tight contracts, NDAs and trademarks or patentees if they are applicable. Take a moment to tighten it all up as you are scaling or if it is not your wheelhouse, invest in some help to do so. Number three, play with your advertising investment. It is a theme that has kept coming up over the last few months. If you are investing a significant portion of your expenses through ads and ad placements, make sure you know how the tools work. When Kira took over managing her meta ad accounts, she began by testing different creatives, target audiences and product avatars to see what resonated with potential customers. This experimentation led to a 1,600% year on year growth. It doesn't mean that you need to be in the ad tools forever but if you don't know what is possible, you can't hold others accountable. Thank you so much for tuning in for this week's episode of Add to Cart. If you enjoyed the app we'd love for you to share it, leave a review on Spotify or Apple podcasts and show some love for our fantastic partners Shopify Plus and Deliver In Person who make this podcast possible. Before you go, we'd love to invite you to join our free e-commerce learning platform at Decart campus. Meet other professionals and learn from e-commerce experts to take your business and your e-commerce career to the next level. Register to join campus at addtacart.com.au/campus Now if you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with a friend or a colleague or even better, leave us a review on Spotify or Apple. It really makes a difference. (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]