[MUSIC] >> Tippeter's got some rules, he'll take the shot, let's go! 19 seconds in, and the Flyers are only on top. Oh, Tippin, get some going, and that will tip it to get to it. Tippin' around, back and just throw, the game is over. The Flyers hang on, and knock off the Toronto Maple Leafs. You can't play catch up hockey on the road and expect to, expect to win this, so. You know, we weren't ready to go, and that's on me to start the game in the first period. And dig yourselves a hole. It's amazing when you do that, help all of a sudden, luck doesn't go your way. That doesn't link anybody to me, for defense growth, I mean, I don't like anybody. [MUSIC] >> Bad morning, shows 4.7, 5.9 of the Van Ben and as Brent Gunning-Jones keep not too pleased, as his Leafs team has lost back-to-back games for the first time since January, although that was the first one in regulation that lost against the Hurricanes on the weekend, at least they got a point in the shootout loss. But Leafs drop now, Brent, to 38, 20, and 9, 85 points, so that is nine points back of the Panthers for second in the Atlantic Division, but more pressing, as later on, on Sportsnet yesterday, Tampa Bay Lightning wore in Vegas to play the champs. And despite Vegas jumping out to an early one, nothing lead in that game, the lightning beat them in regulation, the lightning have 80 points. They are five points back-to-leaves. Now at least you have a game in hand that dissipates after today's game in Washington against the Capitals, five points separating the lightning in that top wild card spot and the Leafs in the third spot in the Atlantic Division. Is this at all concerning to you, or, I mean, conversely, and I was on this early game, 82 of the season against the Tampa Bay Lightning. There's a possibility that the Leafs can control their first round destiny in that hockey game. It's not another realm of possibility. I don't think the Leafs are going to be fighting for their playoff lives, even though the lightning technically are, but are the objects in the mirror, meaning the Tampa Bay Lightning, like concerningly large for you? No, I'm going to have the exact same stance I've had the entire time, and that's not because I'm just sticking with what I first said. It's because I believe it to be true then, and I've not seen anything to change my mind. The Leafs are going to be comfortably in a playoff spot. If Tampa catches them, it's because Tampa goes on an incredible run. I don't think they have that in them, and if they do, I think that'd be a death knell for them in the, in the postseason, because you can only kind of stay at that level for so long, especially when you're longer in the tooth like that team is. So I'm not taking away anything from what Tampa's done. I don't think they'd be a favorable matchup or anything along those lines, but I think the Leafs will be very comfortably in control of this the entire time. All right, time now for our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus dot com. Today's insider, the great Luke Fox Sportsnet Leafs reporter. How's it going Luke? It's going okay. How are you guys doing well? Are you doing like the same standings watch that I'm doing and like, yeah, you were the first to alert us to the website that actually has the odds of where teams finish and the Leafs being the most likely to finish exactly where they are, the best odds of any other team in the current playoff field. But yeah, what do you, what do you make of the closing Tampa Bay Lightning and only a five point differential between those two? I'm not worried about the Leafs changing spots. I'm not, I'm not too concerned that they're going to, it seems inevitable that they're going to finish third in the Atlantic. What I would say is I wouldn't want to draw the Tampa Bay Lightning if I was in, you know, as a wildcard matchup though, because just with that team's experience and the fact that they're, seem to be figuring it out at the right time of year, they could play, they could play underdog upset team for sure. But the Leafs seem very entrenched and I was even, I don't even know if it matters if they get Boston or Florida, you know, I think that's the big, the bigger question mark is who their opponent's going to be when they start round one on the road. And I'm almost to the point where it doesn't really matter because they need to figure out their own issues. And I think it's largely on the back end. Yeah, take care of your own house first, I, I agree with you there. You know, in terms of that, what we saw last night, I mean, if you wanted to distill it to one play, it's the, it's the Riley and Brody play on, that, that led directly to the Flyers goal. Yeah. But it was just a disjointed, kind of disconnected blue line. Sheldon Keefe said, I think it was earlier, well, it wouldn't have been earlier this week, but late last week that consistency and continuity was one of the most important things to him. And you know, I understand it's not his fault that Ilya Labooshkin got sick, but it just seems like everything is in flux back there. It went from a team where, okay, you've got the McCabe and Ben Wah pair and you can kind of trust that to a certain extent to now, I don't know who plays with anybody. I don't know who you feel good about. When Labooshkin comes back, I feel good about him and Riley, but it just seems like there's so many question marks on the blue line in terms of how the pieces fit right now. I agree with you 100% and what is worrisome if your leaf fan is what pair are you trusting to shut down, Pasternak or Marshot or Sam Reinhardt or Barkoff or Brahege, like, which Toronto Maple Leafs defense pair do you have confidence in that when they go on the ice, they can limit the other team's chances. They're a mess in their own zone and I guess, especially last night and then, you know, it's the indecision or the lack of communication in terms of passing to one another sharply breaking under the zone cleanly, but it's also there's a will factor that I'm worried about, you know, like, are you trying to block a shot? Are you getting in the lane properly or are you just screening your own goal? And is that because, like we talked about earlier, is that because they're so comfy in the standing spot and there's a lack of urgency or a lack of how do I get up for the fliers on a weekday night when we beat them eight times in a row and if we earn two points, does it really matter? We're not catching anybody like how much of it is that or how much of it is, you know, this is just who they are and this decor isn't good enough and it may not matter who they face in round one because the special teams are fumbling, penalty kill is a disaster, and they haven't, like you said, they haven't sorted out the deep hairs. Like, this is the time of year where you're supposed to be figuring out your lines and granted, we know Yarn Crocs out, Marner's out, but it seems like too much is in flux for this time of year, in my mind. Yeah, no, I give them way more of a pass up front because you're missing, you know, your best winger and the guy who is the best, uh, tomorrow Sheldon Keys, uh, turn a phrase, the best Swedish army knife the team has, and the guy who can kind of be put in, in any spot, you know, the, the odd thing to me, and I'm not even saying that this is the, this is the answer and this unlocks everything, but when you pose that question, who is the pair they trust? I'm not saying they, capital T trusted, but it's the pair they've trusted the most this year. It's been McCabe and Benoit. I mean, I know they like Riley Labooshkin and they're going to trust them against some stiffer competition, but it just seems so odd to me and I understand that Joel Edmond some has brought him for a reason and I, I like what he can give you, but it's just so odd to me that the one pair that you've actually felt most consistently good about all year is the one thing you're throwing out and saying, we're not going to do that in McCabe and Benoit. That's just, it's just very odd to me, quite honestly. Yeah. So who comes out? I mean, that's the question. Like TJ Brody. TJ Brody. Well, Sheldon Keith leans on him. I don't know if this coach is, is going to help these scratch TJ Brody, but he is, he is on a, a bad run right now. Yeah. And this is an inconsistent season and it's not trending in the right way. There's been moments where he's put it together for a few games and had some, some decent stretches, but he needs to figure it out. And I just, I just think Sheldon Keith, you know, relies on him so much, I think based on history, based on he's been that guy in previous seasons, he's been alive and in the post season last year, we started to see it though already, right? Yeah. And I don't think he's going to be the guy, but you're right. Like, look at the, the, the pairings, right? Labushkin Riley, that's a no brainer. And if you're doing Benoit McCabe and obviously Timothy Lillegrine's going to get the first kick at the can there and you got Joel Edmondson, there's, I mean, what other choice do you have? He's the only guy if you want to see more Benoit in this lineup and you want the Benoit McCabe pairing. Yeah. And what, the only thing I would tell you Ben is, is that, you know, how, how deep into the playoffs do you have to go before one defenseman gets danged up a little bit. So I, like, I'm not, like we're going to see Benoit in at some point and it's probably going to be in the first round or you lose two games and you feel the need to shake it up. So I think everyone's going to get a shot, but yeah, I've never, I haven't really liked how the pairs fit together at the beginning of the season. And even with the additions, it still seems like they're, they're figuring out and it's like mix and match and nothing has, has really clicked where you felt like this is a great pairing. We only need to figure out one pair. It's, it's okay. We'll take from here, but then that pairs off. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a really troubling spot and it's not just this year. They're going to have to figure it out for next year. And when you zoom out, you kind of just scratch your head and say, maybe this is the wrong way to build a hockey team, you know? So you're always, you're always, you're always having blue line issues. When you bet on, you know, your forwards carrying the day and they almost did, right? They hit six posts, you know, that they, they, I think the scoring chances at even strength were 39 to 19. So when the puck's falling, you kind of gloss over what's going on in the other half of the ice. Yeah. It's, it's the way they have to win. They have to outscore the other team. Yeah. Especially with this iteration, you're, you're not wrong. Last one on the blue line and, you know, Ben and I talked about this and I think the answer is because he doesn't, he doesn't want to and it's probably not his favorite thing. But I don't think playing on the right side is TJ Brody's favorite thing either and they sure throw him over there all the time. Morgan Riley is the most talented defenseman on this team. He's the most comfortable handling the puck. I understand that's why you want him on the right side. But if you told me that somebody had to play the game on their backhand or on their offside, I would imagine Riley'd be the guy who was most capable of that. Why do we never see that? I'm not saying it's never happened here, but in all the conversations of somebody's got to play the right side. It's never Morgan Riley. And I'm not even saying it's the right idea. It's just odd that he feels like the one placeholder on the left side and then everybody else we can kind of move around as we see fit. And I'm with you. I don't think this is the time for experimenting, but why haven't we seen that Luke? Well, there wasn't a training camp. I think it was two years ago where he volunteered because they knew they were short on righties. And they gave it a try and he was up for it. He was game for it. He's like, I want to do what's best for the team, but it's not how he excels. And I'm a believer that you want to put your best guys, your game breakers. And he can be a game breaker from the backhand. For sure. Go look at last year. Yeah. You know, he had some rough moments in his own zone, but then he goes up and sets up for Tuesday with a beautiful play. And I think you want to put your best people in positions for them to have success. So I like him on the left. And this has been a failing of the organization. They fixed it for moments. I think they fixed it when they went out and got Luke Shen. But they need to have a great, right shot stay at home defenseman, prepare with Morgan Riley. And I put that on management. I don't put that on Riley. You know, he is what he is. He's an offensive defenseman. So it's up to you as a management group to find the right partner for him. And they had it in Shen and they tried to resign Shen, didn't get done, Brody has obviously lost a step or two. So they bring in the bushkin, which is an inexpensive option to pair with them. But you know, he's like, what is he, a B? No, you know what he is. You know what he is? We'll go. We'll go into Leafs lore for this one tomorrow, a Randy Carlisle. He's just okay. Like he's fine. Yeah. Yeah, he's fine. But it does fine when you a championship, I don't know, most, you know, most, most real contenders have a top pair that you, you trust, some have two or three pairs that you trust. And you know, so why hasn't Riley played the right? I think it's because they know he's one of their best players you want to plan to strength. So you mentioned maybe the lack of commitment and on the blue line and maybe that having something to do with the Leafs position in the standings and the just not a ton to play for during the regular season, it must be said. And I really enjoyed your piece over the weekend talking about the reaction after that, that Hurricanes game Luke and how, you know, there's only so many games against Eastern Conference contenders you're going to have that are measuring stick games down the stretch and they played three consecutive or not consecutive, but they played two against the Bruins where they lost on aggregate eight two and then they played another one against the Hurricanes where they blew a two goal lead with under two minutes to go and everybody seemed kind of fine with it. Now we did hear a little different post-game reaction from Sheldon Keefe yesterday. Do you think that that was a direct reaction of, oh, maybe, maybe I let them off the hook too much. What, what do you make of his job trying to keep this team focused in the final 15 games of the season? Yeah, it's a good question and it is fascinating, right? Like sometimes us reporters are, when we're waiting for him to come out after a loss, we're like, is he going to be angry Keith or is he going to be, you know, gentle Keith and not go hard after the guys and it's kind of this fine line. Like if you're angry after every single loss that gets old, well, you can't let them off the hook every time. So it's kind of like he's, he's alternating here. And you know, I think part of it is he has so much respect for the hurricanes as an opponent. So it's like, okay, we lost, but we lost to a real legitimate team. So he's angry after the fliers lost because that's a team that they should beat handily and the mistakes were early and they were often. But it is kind of an interesting position, Keith is in because do you want to, you know, blow your lid at this team that's underperforming, that's not executing very well right now? When really the results don't matter a whole lot or do you want to save some of those bullets when we get to, you know, five games before the playoffs or eight or whatever and you really have to ramp it up and it's almost like, you know, an exercise in human psychology. When do you go hard after them? But I don't know. It feels not just the comments from Keith, but even the comments from the players after that game, they don't seem bothered. They don't seem bothered that their game is not in order right now. Yeah. And maybe it's just like, hey, Mitch isn't here, like maybe they're leaning too much on him. I don't know, but to me, it's not the posture of a serious, a team that's serious about going deep, that fancy itself, one of the true contenders, you know, like, are you going to hear that stuff from Nathan McKinnon after a game? I don't know. God knows, probably whipping chickpea pasta at somebody saying eat this, you've lazy slob to his teammates. Like, I look at, when I look at this, then this is the thing I always wonder. And I feel like people hear me say this and they go, oh, you're just making excuses for Keith. I'm just wondering aloud. I'm not making excuses, but we see in Vegas, they sit two guys who were major cogs on their back end in White Cloud. And I forget who the other guy was. They sat them over the weekend for a game. John Torrell scratches his captain before a game against the Leafs because he knows how knows how much that is going to get everybody's attention, not just in his team, but in the hockey world. We know how, you know, one little light can turn into a, you know, a fire overnight here, but how much of the Toronto market kind of impacts the way Keith goes about these things? Because hey, Vegas, that's a cup contender. They'll sit down guys that matter. Flyers, they got no problems scratching their captain while they're scratching and clawing to get in the playoffs. And I want to be clear, I'm not saying Sheldon Keith needs to sit Mitch Marner or Austin Matthews or John Tavares down, but it's just that accountability we see elsewhere versus here. How much do you think the Toronto market is the reason for that versus the culture of the org or the way Keith goes about his business? I think it plays a factor. I do. I think he sometimes wants to say more, but realizes he needs to choose his words carefully because things can blow up. You know, remember that there was one game where he sat the top power play unit for one power play and that was the, that was the story of the night, right? Something is, I referenced it already this morning, which still comes up. There you go. There you go. And they, and they deserved it and they deserved it, but I don't know if it's the right way. I don't think, I think you should base your actions on what you think is best for the hockey team to get them to play better. There's going to be a story in this market every day, no matter what it is. We'll find one. We'll create. We'll help create one. Like you can't fight it that the machine, the machine is too big. There's too many outlets, you know, there's, it's, it's like an impossible task to try and control the narrative around your team. So just do what's best to help them win what you think is best. And if that means going after them a little bit and being a little bit harder scratching a guy like, Oh my goodness, the David Camp scratched. Oh my goodness. What a big deal. But other teams are scratching their cap and, you know, Kucharov got benched. He's going to, you know, he's going to be up for the heart trophy. You know, it is funny how things play out differently in different markets for sure. Yeah. And isn't that what the money is for? Right? Like it's, it's to score all the goals and pick up all the accolades that you get during the regular season. But it's also to deal with this market and, you know, said some hard questions, some hard situations. Well, but Ben, you brought this up and I want to ask Luke about it. It is the idea of, and I, I don't think this is a knock on Sheldon Keefe, but John Torturella and Sheldon Keefe are different animals doing this. I mean, personality wise and just what they've accomplished. Well, yeah. Bonifide. Does a coach with more, you know, the ability to slam a cup ring on the table or a guy who's done it at different places and worked with different players, like obviously a different coach is going to have a different tack. No two people are the same, but is that where Sheldon Keefe's, and I don't think this is a fault of his, it's just the facts, his lack of pedigree as a coach. Does it affect the way he's able to do these things, whereas you see torts or, I don't know, even like a guy like Patrick Law is kind of able to do what he wants on the island. Yeah. I agree with that. And I would, I would say something else that affects it. Torturella is tight with management and ownership. He is part of the plan. He's almost like an extension of that group. And he's a, he's a chief decision maker with the Philadelphia Flyers right now. He has a strong voice. Sheldon Keefe is an inherited coach by Brad True Living, who every time the team goes on a losing streak, if the team bows out in round one, that should give him more freedom you would think. Well, but we also didn't see that out of Keith when he wasn't trashed when he was the GM Scott, but the, the philosophy, I think was very different under Kyle Dubas. Like that was like part of the plan. It almost felt like make everybody as comfortable as possible. Yes. I agree. Yeah. Good stuff. Anyways, they can all make a shut up with a long postseason run, just like John Torturella made us all eat it because his team won a hockey game. We shall see. Luke. Pleasure is always buddy. All right. Another one tonight. Yeah. Let's go. See you buddy. All right. Take care. Luke Fox Sportsnet Leafs reporter. He was our insider brought to you by Don Valley, North Lexus, where you can expect excellence online and in the showroom, visit Don Valley, North Lexus.com. At the moment, felt like Kyle Dubas was the right guy, right? Blue Lamarello is getting up there in age, you know, the Patrick Marlowe sign. Come on. Got to get out from under that. What a, what an anchor he put this team under. Yeah. And you can't. Don't say it like that. It was true. Yeah. Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. Kyle Dubas was the young wonder kind and he, you know, denying him the ability to interview for an avalanche job. And you can't afford to lose this guy. Watch my doors. My God. Yeah. You can't afford to lose Kyle Dubas. And, you know, if you're going to have Kyle Dubas, you got to give him full autonomy. Sheldon Keith is his guy going all the way back to the Sioux and you paid Mike Babcock all the money, but you can't, you can't hand the car keys to Kyle Dubas and not have him put his guy in place. What an interesting sliding doors moment for both of those guys because they hadn't accomplished anything outside of a Calder Cup, which is, hey, lots of guys have, hey, do you like John Cooper? Yeah. I was going to say. It's a good stepping stone. Yeah. It's not bad. But yeah, it's a different deal to be those guys who may be good and maybe at the end of their careers, we're looking back as them being Hall of Famers, as opposed to like already being something that had accomplished something like Lulee Morello had at this point in this team's development, because it has to play into how aggressive or how willing you are to take big leaps in moments like John Torrella is open to doing with that Flyers team. Yeah, you're right. And I also, I mean, this part has to be stated as well, like Chunka Torrier, Selky guy, good player, great player, not Austin Matthews or Mitch Marner or William Newlander, quite honestly this season for sure for that matter. And I think that plays into it as well, but Kucharov is not getting sat for games. It's getting sat for periods though, it's not going to stay on coast as well. And again, it's when you've been through those wars and you've won, who cares? Like, oh, it's, oh, you sat me for a period in November. What does Cooper care about that? What does Kucharov care about that in the moment? A lot. They're probably screaming at each other. And then they, well, I was about to say not that I was going to say have a beer. And then I was like, huh, I don't know that they do that. Kucharov still definitely goes for a post game beer. For sure. Yeah, we actually have. You're right. Well, he was screaming number one, something or other. But I look at it and it's, they're just, there's never not going to be a million sliding doors moments of this leaf era. Like I was, I thought Dubas was the right decision at the time. I mean, in hindsight, who knows what could have happened. It's like, does Lou grind these guys? I don't know that he's able to grind them all on deals that we all like. Does he grind them a little more? Maybe? Does he instill this different culture? I don't know. Are we not talking about Austin Matthews? Like obviously re-signing at his earliest convenience? It's entirely possible if he doesn't wants to grow his mustache or whatever the rules are there. So yeah, millions sliding doors moments and it's kind of amazing how the Leafs are at the center of them. Like again, like not to bring it back to Dubas. But if he just takes that abs job and he's linked up with Nathan McKinnon, how do we feel about him? How do we feel about Nathan McKinnon? How do we feel about Joe Sackett, right? Like it is just, it's remarkable how much this leaf thing was an atomic bomb across the NHL. Maybe he's holding on to Tyson Barry and Kara. Oh, he loves of me, right? Yeah. Now, last thing on this is that I would like to think for Sheldon Keefe who understands the situation here, he understands what's on the line for him personally and professionally and nothing short of at least a couple of series wins is going to save his job. You would think you're throwing caution to win here that there would not, I would hate to be Sheldon Keefe, get fired after another opening round exit and think, man, why didn't I do the things that I thought were best in the best interest of this team? Because I was afraid of getting fired, I was getting fired either way. Like I would hope he's not leaving something on the table because he's afraid of the blowback from the media. Yeah, I don't know that he is, like he's been critical of the team this year, just because he wasn't in the moment we wanted him to be after Carolina, that's when we're all the most mad, so he has to be the most bad, he has had very pointed criticisms of those guys this year. Is it too little, too late? Maybe I don't necessarily believe that, but I'll hear that argument. But I don't think there's a roster decision he's leaving on the table that he doesn't want to make. Like I don't think there's some lineup he wants to dress that he's not allowed to dress. TJ Brody, healthy scratch would be something though. Yeah, but to Luke's point, I don't think he wants to do that. And what TJ Brody, again, like not to take away what he is, but that's going to make all the guys on the room go, "Oh, better straighten up, TJ Brody got set." I don't think it does. I mean, okay, now last thing before we take a break, I have another thing that's separate from this, but go ahead. Okay. I mean, is there not a world where do you think like, all the defense been healthy? Yeah. Where TJ Brody has to be the guy that you removed from the lineup, I mean, if you want C-Mom Benoit, if you believe in C-Mom Benoit and Jake McCabe, and you need at least another right hand shot defense man, and well, it's not like Brody's going to play the right side anymore ever again. I think we're done with that. You hope. But I don't know. Timothy Lilligran needs to be in there, and you didn't go out and acquire Joel Edmondson for him not to play. No. And Lubushkin Riley works. Like, is there not a scenario where like, "Oh, yeah, that does leave TJ Brody on the outside looking in." Yeah, there's a scenario, but the more likely one is that at least Simone Benoit on the outside looking in, you get Brody McCabe with McCabe on the right side. Yeah. We saw that. No, no. I'm good on it. I agree. Like, I agree with that. I agree with that. And I just think that's the most likely thing. It is clearly the guy who, say what you will about, say what you will about, you know, Timothy Lilligran or any of these guys, Sheldon Keef clearly has more trust in TJ Brody than those guys. And what I want Benoit in, yeah, I would. But do I think Brody gives you a better chance? I still do. I still think we think of TJ Brody and we judge him on a TJ Brody curve, we think of Simone Benoit and we judge him on a Simone Benoit curve. Sure. I mean, the numbers have been there. And they showed the expected goals against when he's on the ice, I have loved. I have loved Benoit this year. I'm not taking anything away from him. The thing I wanted to say is you mentioned the cup odds that Luke was throwing out here. I pulled him up this morning from Money Puck. Cup favorites. Any guess? Panthers? Carolina Hurricanes. 11 and a half percent. Oh, wow. Second cup favorites. Vancouver Canucks, 10 and a half percent. Yeah. And the third cup favorites, your, Toronto Maple Leafs and 9.1 percent. That one's a bit bizarre. I'm not sure. I figure that like the hurricanes one makes sense because, well, one, they're very good. And, you know, they've had inconsistent gold, gold tending and, you know, they had Jake Genssel. And yeah, the division they have to go through. I don't know. The Leafs wanted a little confusing because like all their, their advanced metrics, like nothing's overwhelming. And they have to go through the toughest slate. Okay. But this is not a, this is not like a field one. This isn't, this isn't, no, I know. No, this isn't Vegas being like, we'll put the Leafs third and we'll get a lot of money on them. That's how it's happening here. It's just the computer nerds spit it out. So I don't know. These are your people. You take it up with them. You love the nerds. Don't lie. I certainly like added information. You love nerds. Yeah. I am not against nerds. Not a hater. You know, I'm not a bully. Like you. All right. I'm going to bully you for the next five minutes. When we come back, Leafs in Washington tonight, the game's on TNT and it'll be called by our next guest, Darren Pang. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan. The best Blue Jays show out there, period. Blair and Barker, be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Fan morning show Sportsnet 5.9 of the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, what a weird bottom of the Eastern Conference playoff race we got as the Detroit Red Wings back in. After their long losing streak, they are one point better than the Washington Capitals and now three points better than the Islanders who also had a long winning streak. Now they've lost five consecutive. The caps still have two games in hand on the Red Wings. So feeling pretty good about themselves, especially as Alexander Ovechkin is finding his form once again on the power play. Leafs and caps tonight from DC as called by our next guest, Darren Pang, NHL on TNT kind enough to join us today. How's it going, Darren? It's going great. How you guys doing this morning? Doing very well. I want to get your, your Leafs thought first before we talk about anything else, the Leafs with a disappointing loss to another team that's battling for an Eastern Conference playoff position in Philadelphia yesterday. They had a long winning streak. The Leafs did not, not too long ago and that was their first back-to-back losses since January. But yeah, this is a team I think we expected to compete at the top of the Atlantic Division. How do you feel about them with less than a month ago before the postseason? Well, I think over every other team, it's, this is not the easy breeze in time of the year. This is the top time. And this is where like even last night's game, you ran into a goal like Samuel Erson, who's had a great rookie year for Toronto and, and you don't know what you're going to get. And if you're not willing to really out-battle and that work and out-think the opposition that these times, especially a team like Philly, that's, you know, they're desperate to get in. And that's, that's what makes it tough. That's what makes this part of the year, the, I mean, honestly, the greatest time of the year now, because you, and so how are the Leafs doing? You know, I think they're, you know, maybe some of these injuries are starting to weigh in a little bit. Some of the line combinations aren't as deep as what they were, but just the facts. And just when I watched them, I think they're, they're too, maybe, maybe more predictable or too predictable of a team without a guy like Marner in the lineup. And, but still a pretty darn good team, yes, but, but at the same time, if you're not, you know, you got to really grind it out in front of the net and make the kind of place that are, that are desperate and keeping fucks in and keeping them in and taking a hit to make a play. All the cliches this time of year are the ones that are important. Well, and it feels like it's got to be the hardest. And I'm not, I'm not, you know, taking the blame away from them for it. They could still do it. But it just seems like for a team like the Leafs, they've been through this grind so many times of, all right, here we are, we're locked into a playoff spot. We almost certainly know one of two teams who we're going to play. We're missing our guy, Marner, our goal. He's been heard at times like it just seems like it's so easy for complacency to kind of kick in or take over. How dangerous a thing is that because, yeah, you know, they can be complacent for a game or two here and it's not going to kill them, but you certainly don't want those habits kind of bleeding into your game as we round out to, or round into the playoffs here. Yeah, and I don't know what, you know, what their thoughts are and it'll be like a good morning. They won't have a morning skate here, but you know, you haven't seen the Leafs in a little while up close. I've watched them play enough games because they're a fun team to watch and, but, you know, I don't know if they're a complacent team or if like you said is right, hey, we're not catching Florida, we're not catching Boston, here we are again. But, you know, I would have to think with the experience that they have in that locker room that they've been down the road before that, you know, by the way, they did win their first playoff series in like 20 years last year and that was a big step for some of the young guys that hadn't been in that position before and hadn't, you know, hadn't celebrated after seven game playoff series or just a playoff series. And so I think I don't think complacent to you. I just think that this season, and I'm not making excuses for any team, but I'm just saying that it is hard every single night. The teams that are on the bubble tonight, it's going to be washed and laughing. It's going to, it was the Philadelphia players, you know, they go into that locker room with a lot more, not intensity or burr, but they're, there's something when you try to describe a team that thinks they can get in and there's certain belief and will that they're going to have it quite frankly, maybe a team like Toronto is not going to have or, you know, any one of the teams that are in a playoff position. So that's going to be the biggest challenge for the Leafs in these kinds of games. And it's going to be a big challenge tonight because the Washington Capitals are, they're giving up chances, but they're smothered in defensively, they're playing hard one on one on you, and it's going to be another team just like last night against the Flyers for me, for the Toronto Maple Leafs tonight. Yeah, except that, I don't know if they're going to be a healthy scratching, Alex Ovechkin tonight. Probably not. I'm thinking, what did you make in Toronto? I think he's, I think he's in tonight. What did you make? I think he's in. I think that lines him. When you look at, even with Marner being out or Yarn Corpen out, Giordano, I mean, look at the, the, the, those three guys in particular, but you look at, look at the Washington Capitals, who they're, who's the top centerman is, right now, Strollman, Michael. Yeah. Like, you know, but they're, they're doing it on hard work and battle and never given up and, and getting great goaltending as well, which is down the stretch we go. That's what's the fun part is. All of a sudden you see this goal telling that maybe it hadn't had an average year in, dang, they dial it up because they know every point matters. Everything. Every point matters for the Flyers as we mentioned as well yesterday and they, they still healthy scratch on couturier, their captain first time in his entire career. I mean, that, that's a move that makes waves all over the league. Darren, what did you make of it? Well, I, I actually trust the coaches that do it because it can't be an easy decision for them. I mean, you think they wake up and say, Hey, let's, let's make this decision, boy. That'll be fun. You know, I mean, they put a lot of thought into it. I, I've watched couturier played, you know, a number of, a number of games and he just is, he just has not been that good. He hasn't been, you know, he hasn't been effective on the score sheet. He's been a big minus player at five on five. And so, you know, coming back from the surgeries that he came back from my, I think that I, I mean, I think the coaches have the best field and, and so what, he heard his feelings for a day. We'll get over it. He's not the first guy. It's going to be scratch in the national hockey league and, and he's the guy that everybody has told me is full of character. And that's why he's got to see on his sweater and, you know, if that's the case, then you, you go into that decision, you back up the coaches. Everybody's had a great year, they're not even supposed to be a playoff team and, and just, you know, be the pro that you're supposed to be. So, um, I saw some of his comments last night. I thought he was going to actually lean more into, Hey, I, I've got to be better comments and I'll do whatever it takes for us to win comments, but I didn't quite hear those ones. But, uh, it was obviously the right decision for the team because they, they won the game for three. Yeah, no, we were, we were joking about it earlier in the show that he, he really started the answer. We played the audio earlier of trying to tow the company line and then somebody asked him a question about his work ethic. And that was just kind of it. He was like, yeah, no, I'm working pretty hard. Uh, so yeah, it was kind of funny to watch that, but hey, like you said, uh, he's a big boy. He'll move on. How much of it is that Tortorella can do that? Cause he's John Tortorella, but that's cause that's who he is. Like, you know, we've talked a lot about Sheldon Keefe here and part of the thing is if he and no one's saying he should scratch Austin Matthews or scratch John Tavares. But if he did that, it would be such a departure from the way he has coached this team for the four or five years, however long he, he's been at the helm. Whereas for Tortorella, yeah, it feels like guys are probably looking over their shoulder on any given day going, I don't know, maybe it's my turn because that's just who he is. How much of that is Tortorella can do that because that's part of the package of hiring John Tortorella. You know, well, I think John Tortorella is, I, honestly, just thinking of the coach and I think the only thing you can take away from these players now is, is ice time, whether that be in a period, a shift, a half a game, a full game, and then you get into a situation where it's a healthy scratch and, you know, how does, he does it because he just does it. Like, it's not Mike Keenan style, it's not like he's going into a hometown and you just sit a guy because grandma, grandma, the aunts and uncles are going to be like, that's kind of what Mike Keenan did a lot in his career and inexplicably just sit a guy. But this is a well thought out, well measured move to make them a better team against a faster team in the main place. You know, for me, any coach can do this. I mean, earlier in the year, I was with, you know, in the hallway with David Quinn and head coach of the worst team in the national hockey league. And, you know, he didn't like, he didn't like the lack of battle and compete in his words. He actually said, you know, there was some, there was some, you know, the players just didn't show the confidence. And they, they, and he made them healthy scratches. I mean, one was Mike Hoffman almost asked me to clear and I talked to him about it and he said, well, it's all I've got. And I, and I said, you're right, it, it is all you have. You can't stand them down to the minors and I don't have two weight contracts. You know, they're, you're in a cap system. You've got players locked up and, and he just quite simply in the same thing that I've heard from torches. This is, this is what you're going to do. And if, and if, and if I don't do it and a player is not playing up to power, but he continues to get the ice time, then it's the players that now look at me and question what we're doing. And so I think it, I think it just makes everybody accountable. I mean, listen, this is professional hockey. These guys get paid a lot of money. I, I dreamt of being in the NHL and wearing an NHL sweater. When you get there, you, you don't want to be out of that sweater. But man, does it ever hurt when you're a scratch? I mean, it just is. And then it wakes you up. It either wakes you up and you're better the next game or you become a solker and you suck the life out of everybody else. And I don't think that's what the criteria is going to be. But I bet, I bet you guys, he woke up this morning going, I better get to the rink and get to work right now and I'm sure that's, that's kind of the mindset that he's got this morning. Yeah. And maybe that's a sliding doors moment. Maybe we'll look back. I don't expect the flyers to go on some incredible postseason run, but I mean, stranger things have happened. Speaking to that point, again, the Leafs get another team battling for one of those final playoff spots in the Eastern Conference tonight. How do you handicap that race? I mean, the Red Wings look dead and buried when they had that long regulation losing streak. The Islanders were surging. Now they're fading. The caps were like out of sight out of mind for me for a while. And all of a sudden they're back in there. How do you view the bottom half of the Eastern Conference playoff race right now? And I'm not sure if we can forget about Buffalo just yet. I mean, they got 12 games left where they're rolling right now. They're beating some good teams. I mean, Detroit last night, they were losing against Columbus. I mean, if they lose that game, I think that's all she wrote. And then, you know, then they tie it up with 12 seconds to go and that Lucas Raymond's been their best player. He and, you know, obviously Kane gets a lot of credit for that. Raymond is a heck of a hockey player. And but again, they win, they get the two points. Doesn't matter how you get them, they got there too. And I'm sure Washington's looking at that game last night. They flew yesterday from Calgary. They didn't travel after the game. So I'm sure when they got back, they nestled in there, had a hot potty and we're watching that game thing, oh my goodness, Detroit's losing this game. And then, dang, it changes just like that. And so how do I handicap it? I did the Sunday game on St. Patrick's Day in Madison Square Garden, the Islanders, you know, they got to travel pretty good against a really good Ranger team. I thought after watching that game, there's no way that they're going to get in. Then I watched the first part of Detroit's game and I said, there's no way they're getting in. So that leaves us with Washington and it'd be amazing. But Washington gets in, then Spencer, Spencer, and I'm going to throw Kirk Mueller, my old buddy in there. She's done a great job at the power play, but you got to throw those guys into the Hall of Fame, let alone the Ken Chapped Adams award because I didn't see this coming. I didn't see that they would even be in the race at this particular point. So I'm pretty impressed with that. Yeah. How can you not be? And obviously, yeah, Spencer Carver, we know him well up here, former Leafs assistant. And yeah, I was sitting there going, oh, that's not the crack you want as your first head coaching gig. But obviously he's turned it around in spades. All right. Whenever I have a goalie on, I always like to ask them this question because there's no right answer. But the good part about that is there's also no wrong one. It is game seven of the Stanley Cup final. You get your pick of the litter, any goalie in the NHL right now, who do you feel the most confident in? And the best thing about this position, I mean any position, but this one specifically is if I ask you this question three days from now, you might have a different answer. Today, this morning, who would you be throwing between the pipes banger? Well, it's not me. That's for sure. I had your third. I would. Yeah, I was probably somewhere about the top three hundred. It's funny. I always go back and say, you're saying one game, game seven. One game. Yeah. I'm taking I'm taking Andre Vassalowski. And I know it hasn't been the greatest season for him, but I think if you're a player and you look back and you see big number 88, you see you see him back there a guy that's gone to finals and lost guys that gone to finals and won two of them, I'll take my chances on him. I think after that, I would probably lean into. I think I'd probably lean into Connor Hellebach and Winnipeg. There's something about Thatcher Gengko when the game's on the line. I'm a big fan of his, so that's I'm going to I'm going to throw those to be in there. And then I'm going to throw a she's never done it before, but I'm going to throw them in there anyway. I'm pretty impressed with them, especially the last month. Yeah. The Vassalowski one is interesting coming off the injury and then you know, leave speeding him in six games in overtime. I threw a loop at you. Didn't I? No, no, no. I appreciate it. Couple of people this question and I have not got Vassalowski yet. So good job. Yeah. Well done, Darren. Appreciate the time. Enjoy the game tonight. Thanks, man. Okay, guys. Thanks very much. Take care. There's that Darren Pang, NHL on TNT in Washington tonight for capitals, Maple Leafs. I get it. Like the pedigree is there. And yeah, he's coming on a little bit stronger recently, but the overall numbers are not there for Andre Vassalowski and and I don't know he lost. He's the only goalie in the last 19 years to lose a postseason series to the Maple Leafs. Like how much can he be? What's more impressive, two cups or less impressive losing to the Leafs? I don't know who can say. Yeah. And obviously we figured out last year you know how to beat him. You just shoot it from the point, like really high and he's got no chance. Yeah, I'm sure that'll work out in spades for whoever got some of the show. This just sturking one's interesting too, because that would be if you're of the belief that you need to manipulate your first round of right opponent. You're like, well, you got a tank and then get into the lightning spot where you get yeah, maybe the best goalie in the NHL and Igor Schisturkin in the first round against the New York Rangers, but a Rangers team man. Watch those regular season games play out and it just it looks different than the Bruins game. It's very different. Although the Panthers games have gone surprisingly well during the regular season for the Leafs as well. One of those was the game we were at with the shootout was almost over and that it wasn't over. Yeah, there's still a couple more. Yeah, they played. They got the three against them. And yeah, so you got the two. They got the two left. Yeah, it's going to be. That's the thing I think is that we're going to read so much into that April 1st game against the Panthers. It's like, I've done my games that matter countdown. Yeah. It's like we're down to one. It's that game. Really? Well, not really, but that's far in the way the one that matters the most. They all matter to the Washington Capitals, including tonight's game, like Darren, I didn't think we'd be talking about the Capitals with any sort of relevancy. But here we are. Like they control their own post-season destiny with games in hand. I don't know how they're doing it. I mean, mostly it's because the bottom of the Eastern Conference playoff picture stanks. Yeah, they're doing it by other teams capitulating and saying, well, after you, sir, and they're like, OK, yeah, fine. All right, you're going to get your going to put it on a battle for it. We'll consume. All right, we'll be back tomorrow with another edition of Fan and Morning Show. Ben and his friend, Gunning Sports F5 out of the fan. Good morning. [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music)
