[MUSIC] Stopping in for Tippo has got some rules, you'll take the shot, it's gone! 19 seconds in and the Flyers are only on target. And that will tip it to get to it, tip it around, back end to throw, the game is over. The Flyers hang on and knock off the Toronto Maple Leafs. Just didn't play well enough on our half of the ice with or without the puck. We were short mentally, we couldn't pass the puck, could handle the puck, didn't defend, didn't compete, so not a lot to like. Hard to manage, I guess, to build up his urgency on the night like this. I mean it shouldn't be, just the NHL, probably goes out and do it there just necessarily, we just, we clearly were short especially on our half of the ice. And we weren't willing to do the things necessary tonight for the start of the game. I thought we competed pretty good on the offensive side. But we got to do a better job in there on his own, with and without the puck, and we were very poor in that area tonight. Bad morning Joe, sports at 5.9 in the fan, bad end, it's Bryan Gunning. Good morning, Bryan. Good morning, Penn. The Toronto Maple Leafs win in this very specific regard last night. Okay, okay, I thought that they had one captain on the ice and the Flyers had none. Other than that though, a loss for the Toronto Maple Leafs. They're first back-to-back losses since January 16th, 4-3 to the Flyers. They hit six posts, they didn't get the great goaltending they've gotten recently, they didn't start on time. They didn't start on time, they got some better special teams play. Boy, there's a lot to break down from this thing. On Philadelphia radio, there might be more, but we're going to take the tact of talking about that Philadelphia and the John Tortorella side of it as well. But yeah, not a great 60-minute effort. There was certainly a serious push in the third period who didn't think this thing was at least going over time as a Maple Leafs score. Yet again, six on five, which is their one. It would have been kind of a narrative poetry to have them blow it. Two goal lead with six on five goals on Saturday and then to bounce back with a couple of their own in Philadelphia yesterday and said not to be as they lose in regulation. Yeah, they did. The only person I think who liked not what he saw, but what he heard was Jason Bukla. He must have loved that from Sheldon Keefe, just calling out his team, taking them to task, no more playing. Patty cake after losses, I, yeah, you don't, you don't like that game. They're a part you can pick of it and you can sit here and talk about the posts and the chances they had and they had them. They generated them, but they weren't generating a plus looks. They do have, they did have a lot of high danger scoring chances. But they made a point of talking about it on the broadcast, the heat map. They're just not getting inside where they need to. You know, it was kind of like deck that game looked a little bit at times, like games, the Leafs have played against the Islanders in the past where, yeah, they're, you know, generating stuff offensively, but it's all from the outside. You're not really getting good looks. They did have their chances, but just a frustrating night where if you want to, you could spin it a different way. Sure, but I don't think anyone's interested in doing that. I don't think the coaches were certain. I'm certainly not, and yeah, it's just, it's a, it's a frustrating night. I will say, okay, let's start there because we did a lot of talk about the reaction by the players and by the head coach after Saturday is lost to the Carolina Hurricanes with a blue and two gold lead with under two minutes ago. And it was like, yeah, what are you going to do? Sometimes you lose hockey games and, you know, we played really well and wasn't that fun to watch and it was kind of a head scratching moment considering that they had three games over the span of a couple of weeks. Against real Eastern Conference contenders, and they lost eight to one aggregate to the Bruins and then again blew a two goal lead in the final couple of minutes to the Hurricanes. You heard that clip from Sheldon Keefe off the top here. He was a little more forceful in his criticism of his team yesterday, even beyond that. On the offensive side, do you feel you were sneaked in a bit? I think there were like six posts and then to come back. Yeah, we had a ton of chances in the second period, third period, you know, but it could have been a lot worse in the first period at the same time, so you can't play catch up hockey on the road and expect to win. So, you know, we weren't ready to go. That's on me. Just start the game in the first period and dig yourselves a hole. It's amazing when you do that to help. Also, the luck doesn't go your way. What was your sense of the same stuff tonight? I think he was like the group that I didn't like anybody to me for defense growth. I didn't like anybody. All right, so I can't disagree. They weren't good. No, Leafs were not good and maybe unbalanced outplayed for the majority of the game. That's clearly a more talented Leafs team than it is a Flyers team and a Flyers team that, you know, because of their own choices, not playing a Selke. Winning forward. They did do that. But I did feel a little bit like an over-correction one from the, maybe the reaction to their reaction after Saturday. And secondarily, it was not lost on me that that was in Philadelphia against the John Tortorella team and the John Tortorella team who is just coming off a two-game suspension for freaking out and then healthy scratching his captain. What did you make of, he's right. Like they didn't play well. I didn't like anybody has a bit extreme. No, I don't know that it was. Who did you watch last night where you went? Oh, I love their game. Because for a coach after a loss to point out player X, he can't, all right, you're fine out there. Like, he did some things. You had to have had a standout game. Like, who would you have said that about last night? Is there a soul? It's like we're going off expectations. Did Bobby McMahon have an all right night? Okay, maybe he hit one of the six boats. Yeah, what's he supposed to do? Talk about how Owen Tippett was flying around out there and he looked great. I understand what you're saying and I think there is an element to that. Like, I'm not blind to the reality of, listen to this part of the quote I had to write down because I didn't want to misquote him. It's three words, so it's not too hard. He went full Jack Campbell. When talking about the team not being prepared, he said, quote, that's on me. Yeah, well, that, that felt like as a reaction to the John Tortor. I love it all. To a certain extent, it's on you. It's your job to have him prepared to play, but we've been talking about this since Austin Matthews could not drink in this country. Like, it is ridiculous how long we have been having these conversations about this team starting on time. So that part feels like an over-correction, but just talking about what he saw, the actual nuts and bolts of what he saw. I don't know what he was supposed to say. And he did, he didn't just bury them. He talked about how, yes, on the offensive side, like when he gets asked about the post, yeah, we did good things. You don't hit six posts in a game without generating your odd, the odd look or a decent amount of chances, but that's not what he's focused on. And I think that's what we've all been asking for. Okay, let's, let's start with like what I think is the one positive you can take out. Okay. And I think it is the special teams. They do score a power play goal, and it felt like it was the goal that was really going to change the momentum of the hockey game. Timothy Lillegrine on the first unit, he doesn't get, it's funny how these things work. It's right. We're going to talk about John Tortorela and his healthy scratching of Chancatourier, and it's like, well, like, well, score more of that work. It's like, okay, why, tell me exactly how it worked. Like, where is the play and where is like the single player that's now in the lineup? That wouldn't have been in the lineup that actually, it doesn't matter. Timothy Lillegrine didn't touch the puck on that power play goal, but he was on power play one and they scored it. They also limited the fliers to 0 for 2 on the power play, despite the fact that the first one had to be, what was it? Like Connor Dewar kicking one off the goal line? This is true. Whatever, scoreboard, they outscored him, won nothing on special teams. Is that progress, Brad? A little bit, I think you saw some slightly different things, but I don't think the power play was snapping it around. William Neelander had the puck at the top of the circle and he shot it in the net. But again, like, it's the score one, it doesn't matter. Well, I mean, it does ask a result. Are you a process person or a results person? It depends when you ask me. Right now, I'd like to see a little more process than throwing something at the wall in William Neelander, and hey, guess what? There's a lot of teams who, the Capitals have had a great power play for years because Alex Ovechkin's ripping it from pretty much that exact spot. So it's not a knock on the player that you're scoring from there, but the Leafs haven't been able to do that often this year. It's hard to score from distance in this league, so I look at it and say good, it's nice you scored. Hopefully you can take something out of that and the team feels better, the group feels better, but in terms of was the power play snapping it around last night? The one thing I will say is that, and you're right, the penalty kill had moments where it was hairy and dire, but there were also moments. The second one was very good. That's what I was going to say. The penalty kill, you need to kill it off, duh, goes without saying. But it is amazing what a flip it can have, especially in a playoff game of momentum. You know, you're down a goal or two in a spot and you take a penalty and all of a sudden, oh man, this could be at the game's over. And then you kill it off and then, oh look at that, all your skill guys come flying over the board, you're feeling good. It's amazing what a momentum boost it can be, and it was during that second one last night. So I maybe liked a little more from what I saw out of the penalty kill, but the fliers of the worst power play in the league. Yeah, for the last two seasons, about to be three consecutive. So yeah, good, congratulations. They didn't score a power play goal. And they did in the six to victory last time you faced them. So whatever. Boy, Riley and TJ Brody were a stanky. Holy cow, on the second, what was that? The second goal literally like looked like my eight year old playing back before they started winning games. They've won a couple of games at their tournament last weekend. But that was about as incompetent. That was a giveaway that was out of nothing. That was okay. You know, the guys with the pucks on their stick in their own zone with no pressure and then they're like, here you go. You know what that looked like that that and this is like I do not use this term for NHL. It is among the most offensive you can use. That's beer league. That looked like guys who are you going to go? Okay. You're going to go change? No. Okay. I'm going to be. I'm going to make a bad pass to you. And then I in turn, I'm going to give you a bad pass right back, but you in an awful spot. They're using sticks with the wrong curve. It was like there were no curves. Like it was that is just as bad a mangling of the puck as you can ever see. That's not going to happen from those guys. But guess what? That was the bullet point that we all point to. They were not good in that game regardless. It is remarkable how that pair was so good for this team for so long. And did they have flaws? Yes. Were they a true shutdown pair? No, not against elite elite competition. But they were stalwarts on this team together for the first three and a half years of that TJ Brody deal. And it is just remarkable how they seem to no longer click one way or another. That was just yard sale stuff on that goal. Yeah, no, I mean, I get it. You don't have the Russian bear in your lineup because he's sick. And I guess he's going to be sick tonight's game in Washington. Well, and so you got too many left hand shots. Somebody's got to play on their off side. It can't be TJ Brody anymore. We're done with that. It's insane how we've gone from the most reliable pairings. Like, yeah, boy, the bottom four you're mixing and matching and trying to figure it out and what works and not quite fitting together. But at least there's Brody and Riley at the top that, you know, those guys are going to, they're going to be very effective for more than a third of the game. Like that's you can't do it anymore. It's just not tenable. And by the end of the game, Sheldon, keep wasn't doing it anymore. No, you can't. It's got to be. It's such a frustrating thing with Morgan Riley because we have this conversation every year, got to find the partner for him, got to find the partner for him. But it's not the partner for him. I'm not saying you can't go get your, you know, insert, right shot stud top pair defense been here. I'm sure that would work out just fine. But we've seen the guy who works alongside Morgan, Morgan Riley. It's a right shot guy who doesn't do much of anything when he has the puck on his stick. And last time I checked, TJ Brody is a confident passer who wants to skate with his head up, make a good breakout pass, and he shoots his left hand. So not checking any of the boxes of what has been a good partner for Morgan Riley. Timothy Lillekrin doesn't work either. We've tried that. This is the problem. You're down to one guy. Unless you're going to, unless you just, OK, thought experiment here. OK. Probably not. Have we tried Morgan Riley on the right side? Like I understand he is the more offensive guy. You want him to be more comfortable with the puck on his stick. But if the issue is that none of these guys, because it's a, and I want to be clear, it's not a skill issues, guys are all very talented. But you understand what I'm saying? If TJ Brody becomes a, you know, 30% less version of himself when he has to play on the wrong side, why have we not tried that with Morgan Riley? Yeah, we have, like right out of the gate, after the Jake Muzzin trade, there was, first of all, the Jake Muzzin trade was consummated and was like, oh yeah, he plays on the right side though. You know, like he did that a bunch. Meanwhile, Jake Muzzin's like, not really sort of kind of like, I can, I'll do whatever you ask me to do. And then what's to the right side with Alex Kerfoot was to center. Yeah. And after a couple of games of middling results, I think Morgan Riley gave it a try. And he was like more explicit about it. Like, I don't feel comfortable here. Like, I, this is not what I'm about. Just, just, um, strapple for both of us in the room here. Do you think TJ Brody feels particularly comfortable there right now? Not right now. I don't think so. Again, like, I, I don't know what it would take to go back to that. And all of a sudden, it does feel like, Ilya Lubushkin is like the most important player on this team headed into the post. He's not the most important, but like, one of the most important defensemen considering, I mean, what are the options outside of him to play alongside Morgan Riley? That's it. That's the only, the only option you've, you've got there. I mean, again, we've tried the Luligren thing. He's the only other right hand shot. Cannot do it. And I'm not, again, I'm not even the guy who's saying, there's no way Luligren can play in the playoffs. I, I'm not, I'm not wholly on that train, but he cannot do it as Morgan Riley's partner. We've just seen that movie way, way, way too many times. Uh, okay. Ilya Sampsonoff allows a couple of goals that, yeah, I mean, to you and I, they don't look so good. And then you, like, you can, it's the eye of a holder stuff, right? Because, yeah, those replays, he probably had no idea where the puck was. There's some maze of human bodies. But isn't that the position? Like, aren't you supposed to make those saves? To me, and we'll see what happens tonight. Obviously, Joseph Wall is going to get the start tonight. Yeah, it's interesting with the Martin Jones dressing yesterday. Don't scare me like that, Leafs. You gotta, but it makes it. No, you gotta go full Joey Vado and write me a handwritten note saying, don't worry, our sweet Joe Wall is okay. We're just letting him have the full night off. Like, I, that was too jarring for me. Of course, of course. When you're carrying three gold tenders and you don't want Joe Wall getting in that game if there's an injury, if you have to pull Ilya Sampsonoff. Yeah, he's going to start tonight in Washington against a capital team that's just as hungry as the Flyers are because the playoffs are right in front of them. I think this is an opportunity where the door is now a jar after a game that I wouldn't say Ilya Sampsonoff was the reason why they lost the hockey game. He could have been the reason they wanted. And those two goals, they do stand out. Again, I understand it. I couldn't see it. Goal happens in the first, what, 40 seconds of the hockey game through a screen, a back breaking goal. Later on in the game, same sort of deal. But yeah, yeah, I don't know, you gotta save those. That's my goal-tending take. You gotta stop one of those, if not both. I just want to be clear. I love that take. My take for goalies is always, I don't care, just stop the puck. This goes back to the, man, it's funny for how much I hated. I do reference it a lot. This goes back to the Amazon series. When you have, I think I'm trying to think, was it, I forgot who the goalie coach was at the time. It was a brier. It doesn't matter. It is in the room with Keith. And this is after the game. And they're dissecting one of the losses. And he goes, well, this one is tipped. And you see, there's a screen here. And this one, there's a one-time workout. Keith, I don't care. Pick one and save one of them. And that is the position at a certain point in time. Guess what? It is incredibly hard for, you think it was easy for William Neelander to just stand there and rip that? I mean, it looked easy because William Neelander is so good. But that's a hard shot. That's a talent to play. He made. When you're the guy, you need to be better. And this isn't, oh, the least lost cousin Samsonov last night. He's also allowed to have a night where he is less than 10 bell or 16 alarm Sammy. He's allowed to have a night where he's not that guy. But to your point about it being a jar, just to extend the door metaphor, I don't think the door is open. I think it's got like just like one of those like crappy little like locks on like a bathroom door where you turn it just a little bit. So if Joe wall gives it, like he can't just show up and it with like a corner or just a good, strong dad, not a dad, but dad strength. But I want to destroy the door frame. Well, if in this case, the door frame is really Samsonov being the least number one starter. He just might. But my point about that is that he can re engage himself or re enter the goaltending conversation. But it's got to be an elite performance tonight or something really, really close to that. It can't be Joe was fine, made the saves you needed to and the Leafs win. It can't just be that for him to try to grab the number one job. It has to be him kind of stamping at home in a certain type of way. I agree. But yeah, it's not a situation now where it's okay. You want to get you want to get my percentage chance? It's my favorite thing I'm bad. I went back down to Samsonov at 60%. I'm going to start texting you Sunday mornings. I don't want to have to wait until Monday after hockey night in Canada games. Yeah, I would like to see another good game from Joe wall. We saw a pretty good game from him right out of the shoot against the coyotes, but since then some very, very middling games against the Boston Bruins. Top opposition on the back to back, very motivated. As I said, Washington Capitals team tonight, one other sort of kind of positive for me or at least one assessment I'm making now as we head towards the posies and all for it. I need to see Max Domi and Tyler Batuzzi together like that. I like those two wingers together as a unit. And I know they weren't the most effective with Austin Matthews yesterday, but that had my eyes open. Like I was kind of glued to the television. I always am when Austin Matthews is on the ice, but like that, that had, and I know Mitch Marner is coming back. So yeah, I guess it's only going to get a fleeting look at this thing if it continues. And yeah, Max Domi up the middle didn't last very long yesterday, but Max Domi and Tyler Batuzzi works. Those guys, they seem to have chemistry together. It's not that it doesn't work. And this is like the conversations we've had about so many other leaf forwards this year is what's best for them may not be what's best for the team. Those two guys do have chemistry. They do seem to click together, which is amazing because it was like they were unable to physically look at what another they had such little chemistry early on in the year. I think the reason why, and this isn't, again, this isn't say you can't do it, but why I wouldn't start there from you want to have these two guys together and let's, let's see what else can work is because you want there. You want their emotion spread out on two different lines. You want those guys bark in an angry and snarly and yippy and yappy. Like I said earlier this week, you want that not just when they're out there together. And yeah, I suppose you could say like, oh, multiplies them. They're stronger together than they are separately, but you want that kind of energy throughout your lineup. You want it spread across. And that's the way I would kind of look at it. Like I think you have to be mindful of that element as well. They do work together. I do like the chemistry, but I think playoffs, the motion, those guys were brought in to provide so much of that. And hey, if they're a spark plug line and they go out there and turn the game every time or they're in somebody's face in a scrum and it's helping them. Then I can see that world, but I think it would make more sense having them spread apart. All right. Anything else on the leaf side of things for now? Because like there's going to be plenty more leafs conversation or do you want to do John Tortorella? Before we do John Tortorella, this is like a transition, I just own tip. It was remarkable. Yeah, it's very fast. Well, he's very fast, but it's also it's not lost on me that it's like that's that's they are Nick Robertson, right? Like he was the guy who, you know, I know he got traded for Giroud, maybe a little highly or a little more highly touted. But Scout came in, had an elite shot, but the differences is he has one other elite skill and it allows him to get open, to get his looks. And this is part of the Nick Robertson. If he would have had a two years in Philly, where, you know, highly doubt, John Tortorella would just, you know, open the barn and say, I got out there and run. But you understand what I'm saying, you get the opportunities, you can grow into a better player. And that's not for me to say, ah, the Leafs could have had an old one tip at Nick Robertson. There's like four to five inches and, you know, 20 pounds there between the two of them, I think. But just a remarkable player. He's a guy who, you know, I remember him coming out to junior. It was always about the shot, but you know, some questions elsewhere. He was, he might have been the best player on the ice last night. He's the guy that popped the most for me. He was all over it last night. All right, so Flyers win the game four to three. And the expression that was ringing around in my head, the conclusion of that game was that the winners write the history books. All right. Yeah. So John Tortorella, his second game back since his two game suspension for refusing to leave the bench after being ejected in a game against the Tampa Bay Lightning. A's is using the nuclear option as Sean Couturier, who has won a Selke, who was just given the sea this season, not having his best year by any stretch of the imagination. This is a Flyers team that is still in a playoff spot was still in a playoff spot. Yesterday, they're not supposed to be anywhere near where they are in the Eastern Conference in the Metro Division standings this season. For the first time in his entire career, Sean Couturier, watching a hockey game from the press box while being fully healthy as John Tortorella deciding to send him Mark Stahl and Cam Atkinson to the press box. They won the hockey game. So he gets to enjoy the spoils of man, that guy knows how to push the right buttons. What did you think of the decision? I think that I have way less an issue with the decision that I do him not talking about it and Couturier's comments, like the actual decision. And maybe it's just colored by everything that we've talked about here. But that's all we've clamored for. And it's not been go sit John Tavares, go sit Austin Matthews, but it's been hold your absolute best players accountable and then it's pretty easy to do it with everyone else. And we don't know what goes on in the room. No one will ever know that. That's for Sheldon Keefe and the 23 guys who are on the roster. But that's what everyone here has wanted to see is I don't like the way you're playing. I'm not just going to take away your power. You're going to learn a lesson. You're going to miss one power play there. That'll teach him. No, no, no. You're going to miss a game and you're going to be embarrassed and it's against Toronto. And this part, I think Torx is completely unafraid of and I'm saying Sheldon Keefe is afraid of it, but it's just a different animal when you're a younger coach and in Toronto. I think Torx has zero problem getting off the guys on the team to hate him and have it not be the motivator. Like if that's part of the calculus here. So I'm not going to sit here and say it's some genius Machiavellian move by John Tortorellan. We should all be so lucky to have someone as smart as Torx in the game. I'm not going to sit here and go that far. But it's pretty hard for me to sit here. I have issues with other parts of it. But it's pretty hard for me to sit here and kill a guy for holding a player who has not played up to their standard accountable. Now we can have the conversation about did it give him a better chance to win last night? Well, who cares? They did win the game. So that part's over. What does it do to the room? Again, I think that's part of it. I think Torx wants that group ornery and pissed off at him. So was it shocking? Is it dumb, quite frankly? Yes. But I can't sit here and kill him for the decision part of it. I will say it's a little easy to do when you've already exceeded expectations to the degree that which you have. But to that point, how many coaches would have sit there and said seasons of success? They would have started putting their feet up 10 games ago going. No, it's true. We get in great. I'm a hero. We don't. Great. Breair's going to love me. It's a better draft pick. It's all house money. How many coaches would have said, you know what? I'm going to go around and start shaking hands. Let's hand out end of year bonuses right now. You guys have done such a good job. He's not going to do that because he doesn't feel that way. He also has the bona fides, right? Has the cup? Has the Jack Adams award? Like he had. Jelven Keith can't do that. Like for a myriad different reasons. Holy cow. Can you imagine the conversation in this city of something? It would be the funniest one if he scratched though. Yeah. I mean, the funniest, I would, I mean, because, okay, maybe we should play the Chancuturia free game stuff. But like the funniest as far as like what I would expect to hear from the player. It has to be Mitch Marner. Of course. Like that's like, William Newlander might be. William Newlander be like, what? No, I was like, he might get on a plate. You're like, all right, you guys don't need me there. I'll be back. Like it's fine. You got back to back? Meet you guys in Washington. Hey, just. Yeah, it's sliding doors. What a, what a world that we would be living in. If, if you saw this type of accountability. All right. So let's play some of the, the, the sound surrounding this. Let's start with the Chancuturia pregame. So this is again, Captain just newly minted this season by, by this coaching staff. Yeah. And then they, it's been a while since Claude Giroud that they've had a captain, right? Yeah. Like he was the last guy. First one since true. Yeah. Okay. And at first time in his entire career, a guy with bonafide himself again, a silky trophy owner of which, given the, the healthy scratch of the first time in his career, here's Chancuturia pregame. Talk yesterday about trying to foot off frustration is, is this kind of testing your frustration in patients. Definitely. Like I said, I control what I can control. It is what it is. Uh, I'm going to move on. Have you spoken with Torell about this yet or no? Somewhat. Uh, doesn't matter, honestly, what I think, um, got to leave my ego aside, I guess. Um, you know, hopefully he finds a way to get a win here tonight and, um, I can get back into it. So you were the last guy off the ice. I know you're a pretty driven worker, but how much is this driving you even more? Yeah, it's tough. Uh, I feel like I've been putting the work in for a while. I know I've been struggling trying to work on my game. So definitely frustrated the way I've been treated around, I guess, but lately, but, um, this is what it is. Frustrated with the way I've been treated lately. Uh, so he starts with just that line of answers. Well, I think dad to color to it, he's been playing on fourth line. He's kind of lost his power play time there. So I think that is just for people who haven't been, you know, for everyone who's not scout, for everyone who's not Adnan Burke listening right now who has been scouring over flyers tape. That's what he's talking about. Yeah. So he starts by saying the right things. It's like it is what it is. And he tried. And, and yeah, I hope they win tonight, leaving my ego aside. And then he ends it with like the truth. Yeah. It's like, yeah, the way I've been treated hasn't been, it's like, he just couldn't help himself. And yeah, whether you believe this was the correct tactic or not by John Torrella, this is, I think, example A of why he has a shelf life. Now every NHL head coach has a shelf life. There's only so many years that you can, you can have that type of relationship with your players. And you do hear, you know, post playing career, some of the guys having a different perspective on their time with John Torrella. But you saw the lightning players when he was getting booted in front of them. They're all loving it. So it's a different deal while you're going through. Yeah. It was interesting to hear John Torrella not being 100% on the party line here talking about how he's not too into the way he's been treated recently, the captain. The funniest part of it is him trying. He's like, all right, this sucks, but I'll, I'll do the right thing. I'll say all the goods is, yeah, you know, okay. And then the guys like, so you were working hard today. And that was it. He's like, what? Working hard. I work hard every day. And that just, that just took a turn for him there. I think that is the part where you do have an issue with it. You know, the captain isn't, you shouldn't be coddling anybody on your team. And you certainly don't need to coddle your captain, but you know, captain's almost middle management for lack of a better term. Like you have to have a different working relationship with that guy. Then you do the, you know, the 12th forward or the 13th forward, or even just a guy who doesn't wear a letter who's on your power player or something along those lines. You have to have a different relationship with that guy, especially on a team like this that is in such a transition period, you need that guy to have buy in. And he obviously is trying to, but to not have the player. And I don't know that there's anything you could say to get the player on board with being scratched. I don't think anybody's going to be happy about it, but it kind of proves the belief in the vision or them already getting sick of this guy that he wasn't able to kind of toe the party line there. >> The good news for us though is that we got some keen insight into why John Tortorella decided to make this move. Here's John Tortorella, when asked to explain that the healthy scratching of his captain. >> Pulling Sean Tortore from the lineup, what were you looking for from the team by making that move? >> As I told you, I'm putting the players out on the ice to win a particular game. And these were the 20 that we decided to go with. >> These things a little, you know, I'm not talking on Sean, I'm not debating with you, I'm not conversing with this between Sean and I. So it was just talk to me about the game, guys. >> Sean, how do you think the team responded, especially? >> There's nothing to do with Sean being out. You asked me about that reporter. >> I mean, how did they respond to in your eyes? >> Our team played good tonight. >> Okay. They played good tonight. All right. >> I just satisfied. >> I love that reporter being like, all right, fair, no more questions about Sean. >> Was Sean absent? He could not have started that question in a funnier way, so just good job by that reporter. >> So this is a guy who, boy, and I don't think this is not related. Like I think there's, this is important context to bring up, but John Tortorella also didn't explain his position or was not contrite after being suspended for two games. I'm not gonna say he has never explained an action he's taken, but generally speaking, if you ask him about a coaching decision he makes, he has no problem discussing the game at large, but generally speaking, hey, you put this guy on the power play, you put this person here. It's I like the way they were going or we're not getting into that. That's just always been the way he's gone about it drives me nuts. >> Yeah, he would not, he would not apologize, he would not say, hey, I gotta, I gotta rain it in a little bit. And boy, this is a really tough time for me to be absent because my team is very much in the thick of an Eastern Conference playoff race and if you believe that I'm a net positive and that coaching matters and certainly you would think that guy thinks that. >> He should. >> Yeah, man, losing me for a couple of games, not ideal. And I know I'm a fiery guy and I don't, I wouldn't take back any of the emotion that I had, but I gotta find a way to stay in that game and not be suspended. We didn't hear that. We heard, hey, I'm not talking about that. This is not, hey, why did you mix the lines up a little bit? Your captain was handed the first healthy scratch of his entire career. Now, you don't need to get into the minutiae of the thing, but the idea that you would be so low to even discuss the mentality surrounding that, now maybe it's different, like maybe that's just after the game thing that you want to get. My guess is probably not like that's we're not going to hear anything about Sean couturier being healthy scratch for the first time in his entire career. >> I'm the head coach from the guy that made the decision. >> I just like to make request to the city of Philadelphia at large. I don't remember the gentleman's name who Torturella has a blood feud with because of the Jimmy Hayes report, but I'd like that guy to go to practice and ask some questions about this, please. >> Just like for me to see towards blood curdlingly angry. The thing that obviously gets most people most up in arms about this is the accountability part, right? This guy who preaches it, left, right and center, got to be accountable, got to be accountable. Now again, I think this important context is that being accountable doesn't always mean being publicly accountable to you. >> Right. >> And no, no, but here's the difference is that we heard everything from Sean couturier and it doesn't really sound like he was very accountable to him. Doesn't sound like Torturella is explaining his decisions to the team. The other part of the accountability part, I actually have way less of a problem with the post game than I do the pregame. For anybody who missed this, generally speaking, coaches talk after a pregame skate morning avail. And when it came out, the couturier would not play. It wasn't Torturella who met the media. It was Bolotai himself, Rocky Thompson, saying, and when he got asked about it, you know what he said? I don't know, you have to ask towards about that. I didn't make the decision. So that is the part where its accountability matters. I'm gonna throw my guy to, I mean, to the wolves, who cares, like a Rocky Thompson answering a question, either asking question, being asked a question he doesn't have the answer to, that's the part of this that drives me nuts. I don't think he had to, I don't think he had to come out with a big spiel if we got a different answer from Sean couturier and he was clearly very accountable to the player or accountable to the team. I don't think that was the case. That's the part of this that drives me nuts. What drives me nuts is that none of it matters. They won the game and like Sean couturier is going to be in there for the next game. I mean, I would be shocking to see this like, hey, until we lose like Sean couturier year year. >> And I won't talk about it. >> Yeah, no, I think we're gonna see Sean couturier back in line up and that'll be interesting to say, hey, and maybe Sean couturier has like a hat trick upon his return and torts gets even more accolades. But like, yeah, again, he scoreboard. This is a clearly inferior team that got just absolutely played off the ice in their last meeting against the Toronto Maple Leafs. And yeah, the Leafs had six posts yesterday, but unbalanced, they were right there with the Leafs. >> Yeah, no, there was not a, I mean, I suppose the Leafs were a little better, I guess. >> Maybe, but no, there was not the point I'm trying to make is there was not a clearly better team in that game. >> Last meeting, there was a clearly better game, like without question. So we gotta, we gotta eat it, torts gets like flags fly forever, torts one, it doesn't matter what your take is, it doesn't matter how angry we are that there's no accountability from his end. They won the game, there's a team with limited talent that isn't supposed to be here. He pulled a very, like it's a move that if it doesn't go well, he's gonna have to eat it. >> Yeah. >> It went well, they won the hockey game. Now we have to eat it. So enjoy your meal. >> Crow? >> I wasn't saying he shouldn't have done it though, so it's not Crow, I guess. Just a poop pie I think, what, what a story this would be in this market. >> Well, that's the, that's the part that can't be papered over. He didn't do this by accident. He hasn't like, you think he woke up Tuesday morning and said, you know his game has been no good lately? >> Mm-hm. >> That couturier. He's getting a health bomb tonight. >> No. He's been thinking about this for a while. And he said this is gonna have the biggest impact when I do it against the Leafs. >> Yep. >> It is. Yeah, I'm one of the opposition matters too, that the, you know, everybody loves playing against the Leafs. It's not in Toronto, but. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Shocker. Morgan Frost, squirticle. I am shocked. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's Philadelphia, and we got it's, it's the Eagles and it's the Sixers, but it's like, they're not shy about it either, right? That this is not Tampa. >> No, it matters. >> It matters. >> For sure. >> Real American hockey market. I swear, I am constantly killing all the ones that aren't, so you're right. Good job pointing that out. Real hockey market. Unfortunately, we already use our Frank Servelli bullet this week, but yeah, yeah. That's fine. >> Well, maybe revisit this next week. All right, when we come back, there's real live Major League Baseball regular season action underway right now from South Korea. Talk about that. Also the Blue Jays naming their opening day starter for Reels on the heels of some pretty ugly injury news out of the bullpen. That and more next as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan. >> Hey, it's Aelish Forafar. >> And I'm Justin Cussard. >> Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games of the night. >> It's the fan pregame, 6 p.m. Weekdays on Sportsnet, Sportsnet 590, the fan and wherever you get your podcasts. [MUSIC] >> The fan morning show, Sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning in South Korea. This morning here, tonight there, it is the top of the third inning and Shoyo Tani is facing you, Darvish, and still looking for his first base hit as a member of the Los Angeles Dodgers. They are scoreless. >> Bust? >> I mean, we're on Bustwatch. >> Okay. >> It must be said. Yeah. >> Clerks an ask. >> Said about Petuzi. I'll say it about him. Padre's Dodgers playing two games today and tomorrow before resuming their spring schedule and then starting their seasons for real. Major Elizabeth, what are you doing? >> With the rest. >> I mean, this is none. >> The first time this time. >> Yeah, I know it's dumb. Just because a thing happened once before doesn't mean it was a good idea. >> I'm fine with it. >> I'm not. >> Okay. >> I just want to get it on the record. I think it's dumb to start your regular season someplace other than where like the fans of your team are, I understand you go on the road and then you play spring games and then you're going to have more games that matter. I just think this is Asinine. >> All right. >> It'll be on record. >> You're on record. You have that same type of energy towards the Dodgers in general. We talked about the Vegas Golden Knights rising, the rankings of, hey, neutral fans hate that team. >> Yeah. >> If you don't play in the same conference, if your team's been eliminated, you're rooting for anybody but that team. Are the Dodgers close to that level? On that level, and by the way, show it to Ani now with a base head as a Dodger. >> The longer, the longer, the right field. Where are you on the Dodgers being the big, bad Dodgers now? Because that's the Yankees and the Dodgers have spent, I just haven't felt that way. But this year, I do feel that way. >> Yeah, the, I'll be honest with the Dodgers, it is very much out of sight, out of mind. They are a baseball team that plays in the other league. I'm going to think about them a lot now because they're playing. I'm going to think about them a lot in the beginning of the season because it's the beginning of the season, you think about kind of big national teams. But then once that series with the J's is in the back pocket, I imagine I will kind of stop worrying about them. Now, I gotta be honest, just like my own biases here, I'm holy in the tank for Mookie Bets. I feel like he was my last favorite baseball player, and it's just a touch younger than me. But it's like, we all have those guys who it's like, I don't feel like I can ever appreciate the way I appreciate this guy, and I do kind of have that feel for Mookie Bets. So that does kind of, I'll just be honest, like color my perception of them. But as far as the big bad in baseball, I still hate the Yankees more than I can physically hate almost any other team in sport. But the Dodgers have to be, have to be right there. But me personally, my own feelings are a little conflicted just because I am in the tank for Bets kind of God, the Mookie Bets trade well, I mean, in the moment went down as like, what are we doing here? But at least you got pieces you thought and you get her downs at the moment was like a real thing. Terrible. He's not a major league baseball player. Alex Frodo goes in no longer playing, Connor Wong, where does Alex Frodo go play? Oh, the Yankees, right. Yeah. And I guess they got to dump David Price's cash on the Dodgers as well, but he won a World Series. So like scoreboard, just, well, this is an all sports thing. It's like, you should not be using your best asset to dump a bad contract. That is not what your best trade asset should be used for. That's just an all sports opinion, not just that one, especially in a sport where money doesn't matter. It's neither here nor there. But keep that trade in mind when, you know, Blue Jays don't do the ultimate thing this year and are staring down the barrel of the final years of team control of Bob Chet and Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. I mean, that's the situation the Boston Red Sox were in when they decided not to pay Mookie Bets. But yeah, okay. I don't have that. Yeah. The history with Mookie Bets, I will say that we did this also last year with the Mets when it was like, Oh, well, the Mets see this team that how do you come on? That's not fair. I get it. It's a it's an uncapped sport and who wouldn't want their owner to just free wheel spend, but that's your stack in the deck. That's not. And then look at the way it played out. We'll never go down that route again with that specific team. I'm telling you that the same thing could very easily happen with this Dodgers team. Now the difference is that there's this this Dodgers team with the majority of the players that are going to be on the field for 162 games have already won a World Series and are consistently winning 100 games in that division. But yeah, I had that feeling surrounding the Mets. I think whenever you're the team that just gets too many assets, you're that team. It's interesting because I never I never felt that with the Mets. Maybe it was that. And again, it's maybe it's just my loathing of the Yankees that come into this and like, Oh, there's a national like thing to that. That's a big, big part of it. Then the Mets always feel little brothery forever like they're not our little brother, but they're somebody's and they just kind of feel that way. So when they're the team that's splashing cash, I did feel differently about it. If they splash the cash and then everybody was great and then they give Pete, you know, they go win a World Series this year and they pay Pete Alonso and they're basically, you know, Dodgers Dodgers East, I say, don't like that. I would certainly start to feel that way. But in the moment, I didn't have any of that. I think it was honestly what it was for me was that I didn't feel this way about the Dodgers because they've been doing it the whole time. But in baseball, in a sport where you have just you have so many teams that are content. We talked about this with that Dan yesterday to say, yeah, like I could go get this good player, but we're not going to win any game. So why would we spend any money to have a new owner who comes in and treats it the way we all would treat a sports team if we had billions of dollars? Yeah. I actually loved that quite honestly. Sure. And the fact the blue in the face means I got to live in that. That's why you love George Steinbrenner too, because that was his deal. But I was not okay, like maybe I would have felt that way if when he bought the team. And I'm like, wow, look at this new owner. He's coming in now. The division, the Yankees of it all, of course not. But it was something about that, you know, I see the Oakland's of the world or, you know, just I could side swipe half of the teams in major league baseball who are content to have fairly middling payrolls that this guy is not content to do that. And I could not hate him for that. If they would have won, I'd feel differently. I'll tell you that the other four NLS teams very much hate the Dodgers and that's a division thing. Despite the fact that the Giants have had way more success over the last couple of decades, it doesn't matter. You still hate the Dodgers. What's the rule for them? Even years or odd years? I forget. Oh, no, I think it's, I think it's even because it was a whole thing if Bo Chi won it in an odd year. Flash year. Well, I'm just saying it's the years when I'm getting there. Yeah. And boy, they had a great off season anyways. And I also think there's now a personal hatred for Blue Jays fans considering the way the Otani thing went down. Well, that, that's the thing. It's like there's the Dodgers and then there's Otani and you add them together and nobody can't hate them. Yes. Mention it. Blue Jays officially announced Jose Barrios is the opening day starter a week from tomorrow in Tampa against the Rays. No big surprise there. It is funny how all the way back to the beginning of the Jose Barrios 10 year I am when they acquired him in trade from Minnesota Twins and then turned around and immediately signed him to a seven year extension. By the way, there is an opt out on that thing after next year for Jose Barrios, which if he continues to pitch the way he is pitching right now, actually it's after the 2026 season. If he continues to pitch this way, he's going to opt out of the final two years at over 24 million bucks and he'll still be in his middle 30s and capable of signing another what five year contract with somebody else, but the Jays would sign up for that problem in a heartbeat. I feel like if he's just that guy where he's going to opt out. Yeah. That's for said, but it's it's a they acquired this guy, you know, who then this is going to sound like a damning with faint praise. The guy I was thinking about this morning in the shower when I was a lucky guy, you and this nameless person. I was trying to think of a comparable to Jose Barrios. Yeah, boy, this is going to make some people mad. All right, Dickey, but like a rich man's already Dickey. What he did during the regular season was give you 33 starts and 200 innings and it was league average ERA, but something that was extremely valuable. Spend no time on the aisle. You knew every fifth day R.A. Dickey was taking the ball. Jose Barrios has never spent a second on the injured list throughout the course of his entire major league career and he's a guy now. R.D. Dickey did win a Cy Young award. We didn't see that R.D. Dickey in Toronto. They thought they were getting the rich man's R.A. Dickey. Instead they got the poor man's R.A. Dickey, which was like, oh, he's fine. And he certainly serves a purpose during the course of a regular season. What they've got out of Jose Barrios is, say for the year two years ago, what I think they should expect to get, the guy that he's been throughout the majority of his entire career, say for that one season two years ago, is a guy who's going to take the ball every fifth day, get you deep into games, but has the upside and we saw it in the postseason of at times looking like one of the best pitchers in all of Major League Baseball. That contract looks spectacular where we thought it was going to be an albatross around this team's neck when in his first full season as a Blue Jays thrown up an E.R.A. of over five, not getting more than one out in his first start on opening day as a Blue Jays. And this will be a second coming up a week from Thursday. No, I'm all my all the way back to Jose Barrios is the anchor of this rotation. Well, Kevin Gossman is the ace called Jose Barrios the anchor. Oh, I like that. That's very good. And anchor is a good thing. We were talking contracts and I feel like people hear that and they're like, but I thought he was doing good. He's going to sink. The whole time, all I could think that you were saying that and it's a great point you made. But as soon as you said, R.A. Dickie, I just sat in my head and heard the slurve is a capacious animal with that thing of him talking about his knuckleball, he'll give shivers down my spine. It's a great comp. It is the last guy you would ever think to compare. Well, I mean, it's a knuckleballer. He has no whatever ligaments there are in your arm. He has none of them. The UCL. There you go. I knew you'd have it for me. They do not feel stylistically remotely the same because they're not. The difference is is that unlike with Dickie, you've seen it's not been season long, but you've seen a high, high end barrio said various times here. You never really saw that from Dickie in his time here. And that's the that is the difference and I, you know, I said this before. And when I guess we thought he was named, now he is officially named the starter is that there is a very good chance. And this is not so much a knock on Kevin Gosman, but there's a very good chance burrios is the best starter in the Jay's rotation this year. It's like we've been through the Kakuchi thing, Bassett coming off 200 innings for the first time, Gosman late to start the year. You're going to need him to be an elite, elite front end starting guy for this team to be great. I don't think it's a guarantee by any means, but I think it's entirely in the cards. >> Yeah, he's the most reliable guy by a factor of many and Kevin Gosman's been pretty healthy as a Bluejay. But as we've seen this spring, not as healthy as the guy who's like never even had a moment where you're like, but he's feeling a little bit, nope, he's ramping up normally everyone else should wear a mouth guard. That's the secret. >> Yeah, we can quickly just mention that Jordan Romano and Eric Swanson both have various levels of elbow, I'm going to call it an elbow injury, even though they talk about being a forearm injury and they're not calling it an injury and nothing actually physically wrong with the ligaments, just inflammation, not ideal, it's not what you want. And maybe those guys will be fine in April, but at the moment, it feels like they're going to at least start the season on the IL. It's weird how I feel about this bullpen, like there's enough guys there. And there's a guy with closing experience in Chad Green. As good as those two guys are, and they are good, and they help, they're part of the solution, not part of the problem. I really don't look at this Bluejay's bullpen that was a top 10 unit in Major League Baseball a season ago as like, that's a devastating blow. You're talking about your closer and your setup man missing a couple of weeks to start the season. I don't look at that as a tremendous blow, they get Chad Green maybe closing gains Jimmy Garcia. I mean, he runs on cold a little bit, but- >> Yeah, he's a reliever, he's got Trevor Richards, who's turned himself into a strikeout machine and- >> Yeah, Silver Fox himself. >> The perennially underrated Tim Mazer, like there's lots of guys in there. >> Yeah, and you lost Hicks, and you're going to miss that obviously. That was a guy who could run it up there. But to your point, when everybody's healthy, you start to stack guys in, and guess what? You go get another guy like that. If this team proves they deserve it, we'd be having a very different conversation about this. If this was deep into the season, I think, but to start the year, yeah, you're totally comfortable with Chad Green being that guy. It maybe allows him to kind of get some higher leverage reps earlier in the year, because you're going to need him in those spots eventually. And obviously, if this goes longer than a couple weeks, then yeah, that is a little, then it starts to become a little devastating. But for a couple of weeks stretch here to start the year, yeah, there's some nice depth. And that's what you need. You just need to have enough guys that you can go to, because some of them are going to turn out to be nothing this year. Like we've just seen relievers, guys are going to turn into pumpkins. There will be guys that give you seasons that you didn't expect, so yeah, it'll be not a problem to start the year, monitor the situation. >> I mean, I mean, I don't think it'll be a problem. It could very easily be a problem, because the Blue Jays start the season off with three American League contenders and the Rays, the Astros, and the Yankees. All right, when we come back, I got a Matthews goal total rate update for you. >> Thank you. >> And have we seen the last of Ryan Reeves this regular season? >> He departed the game yesterday after his fight with Nick Deloriae, that and more next. As the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
