The Carey Nieuwhof Leadership Podcast
CNLP 059 – Lewis Howes on What it Takes To Be Great
(upbeat music) - Welcome to the Carrie Newhoff Leadership Podcast, a podcast all about leadership, change, and personal growth. The goal? To help you lead like never before in your church or in your business. And now your host, Carrie Newhoff. (upbeat music) - Well, hey everybody, and welcome to episode 59 of the podcast. My name is Carrie Newhoff, and I hope our time together today helps you lead like never before. I can't wait for you to meet today's guest. His name is Lewis House. And I discovered Lewis a couple years ago. He's just one of the guys whose podcast I listened to. And apparently I'm not alone. He has about 800,000 people who download his podcast every month. That is just a crazy number. Literally one of the most listened to podcasts on planet Earth these days. And his podcast is called The School of Greatness. And what he does is he just interviews people. And successful people to find out what makes them great. It's just a fascinating interview. So he's interviewed all kinds of famous celebrities. You name it, he's interviewed them. And I've been a listener for a long time. And a couple months ago, I had the opportunity to actually turn the tables and interview him. And I thought, well, this would be a lot of fun. And Lewis has piqued my interest for a number of reasons. But one of the episodes I listened to, oh, probably six, seven months ago now. One day, I was just at my house doing some yard work, you know, had a podcast on. And listen to him interview the rapper Prince E. Now you may be familiar with Prince E. I don't know, lots of church leaders probably don't listen to rap music. Honestly, it's not somebody I had ever heard of either. Really big YouTube sensation on a lot of different media these days, Prince E. And Lewis sat down and just interviewed him about success. And they got into this really interesting discussion about spirituality. And Lewis, as you'll hear in this interview, has a Christian science background. He is currently not part of a church. And he probably wouldn't call himself religious, but he would call himself spiritual. And we get into that. So, you know, he's open to different forms of spirituality. And here are these two guys on a podcast that's listened to by almost a million people a month, having this discussion about the meaning of life and spirituality. And there is only a glancing reference to Jesus. I mean, they're interested in Jesus, but they just kind of glance off him and move off. And so I listened to that and I wrote a blog post and I called it and we'll link to it in the show notes. The evangelism conversation known as having. And one of the reasons that interview was so interesting to me was the fact that I couldn't imagine that conversation happening in most of the churches I know. And I had to challenge myself and ask, you know, could it happen in the congregation I lead? And what's interesting to me is all of these evangelism conversations are happening in your community, in your city, in your neighborhood. And somehow us preachers get left out of it. And so when I had the opportunity to interview Lewis, I jumped at it and said, I'd love to talk about Lewis. So we dabble a little bit in spirituality. We talk a lot about greatness. And I just want you to access this interview as sort of a conversation with the person who lives, you know, two blocks down from your church because they're interested in spiritual things, but they're not necessarily having the conversation with you. So if you want to look at that blog post I wrote and get all the links back to like, like Princey and into Lewis's show, you can do that. You can find it all at carrynewhop.com/episode59. And when I told Lewis about that at the end of our interview, this we didn't tape for broadcast, but we were just chatting a bit after. And I said, hey, you know, that interview really impacted me among many, many others. He did Hal Alrod in the Miracle Morning and some other things he did. And he actually linked to it on his Twitter account. He has like a bazillion Twitter followers. So that was really cool. So anyway, that's sort of a little bit of background to today's episode that I think will give you some context to it. And Lewis is probably the first and he won't be the last guest that isn't really part of a local church at this stage in his life. But one of the reasons I love doing this podcast is I hope that there are literally thousands of us listening to this podcast who are committed to creating the kind of churches where Lewis and Princey would feel comfortable. 'Cause that's sort of my goal. I think that's a lot of your goals and I am just super excited about that. So anyway, that's a context for this. And just thanks for being the kind of, you know, group that gets this. And so Lewis also a very exciting day for him. He has a new book called The School of Greatness and it releases today. And we'll have all the links to that in the show notes. So give him some love today. Go out and buy a copy of his book and we'll talk a little bit more about that. Hey, speaking of books, just thank you once again to everybody who has been so, so, so supportive in the launch of my book earlier this month, a lasting impact, seven powerful conversations that can help your church grow. Cool news, next month, we will release the audio version of that. So stay tuned to this podcast. You'll get all the details first. As a listener, hey, if you got in on the bonus, bonus offers before the launch and the week of launch on my book, you already have the audio book, but everybody else gets it next month in November. So that's gonna be a lot of fun. And if you wanna learn more, you can go to lastingimpactbook.com. Also, just a couple of weeks left on the Orange Tour. Next week, I will be in Austin and in Dallas. And then later in November in Nashville. And you can get all the details on that in the show notes or at orangetour.org. Nothing I love more than talking to you guys face to face. So come on out, I'm doing some talks on the Orange Tour, hosting a lunch for senior leaders would love to see you. And in the meantime, let us jump into this conversation, this great conversation with Lewis House. Well, I'm so excited to have Lewis House on the podcast today, Lewis, welcome. Thanks so much, Kerry, appreciate it, man. - Yeah, I've been a fan for a long time, listen to you. And it's fun to actually pin dialogue, which is great. Thank you. - Yeah, my pleasure, man. - Hey, Lewis, you have done so much with your life. You're the author of a brand new book, which releases today, The School of Greatness, same title as your podcast. We'll have all the links in the show notes and talk about it at the end. One of the top 100 podcasts in the world on iTunes called The School of Greatness. And you've interviewed all kinds of people, Tony Robbins, Tim Ferriss, Rob Bell, so many more. We're going to get into how you got started, your struggles and how you went from a professional athlete to where you are today. But first, I want to start with a question that you ask every single guest of yours. Okay. - Yes. - What does greatness mean to you? - I appreciate you asking it first. For me, it evolves, it changes. And I think it depends on where we're at in our lives. And my definition has changed over the years, but right now, my definition of greatness means to maximize the gifts we've been given. We've all been dealt certain cards when we're born. And we are able to maximize and grow and evolve those gifts that we have. They're all unique to us. And so for me, it's maximizing those gifts to the fullest, whatever God has given us, maximize the talents we have and make the maximum amount of impact on the maximum number of people in the world with our gifts. - Hmm, that's a great definition. That's a challenging definition. I like the idea of gifts too. You know, that sort of jobs from where I come from as well. So, Louis, on the topic of greatness and teaching people about it, it's become really popular. But how has that become a successful business for you? I mean, how do you build a whole life around encouraging other people to be great? That's a pretty cool thing you're doing. - You know, I started the podcast as just a side hobby. It was just like, this is something that's fun for me. This is something I'm interested in and passionate about. This is something I'm gonna wake up for and talk about. And more people said, can you, you know, they started following the podcast and said, hey, can you give me more tools and more resources and more information and coaching? And it started to evolve because people were asking for it and they couldn't get enough of it. So for me, I just started creating programs and packages around different topics of business and lifestyle and health and relationships and whatever people asked for, I just started creating it or finding the best experts to teach it. And that's how I've done it. - Yeah, your podcast is pretty eclectic, isn't it? You have all kinds of people on there from like rappers to fitness coaches to very, you know, fortune- - Spiritual leaders. - Spiritual leaders. Yeah, yeah, you had Rob Bell on there recently. And John Acuff been a guest on your podcast. - He's been on twice, actually, yeah. - Yeah, John's just great. So now let's go back a little bit and give people some of your back story. You weren't always an entrepreneur. You were one professional athlete, football player and the national handball team, true story. - Yeah, still in the national handball team, yeah. - Are you? That's awesome. Tell us some of your journey. - Oh man, when I was a kid, I had a big dream and that was to be a professional athlete. You know, I used to sit on my couch watching, you know, college football and NBA games with my dad and he would talk to me about the greatest athletes of all time and I would dream about being those athletes. I would dream about being on TV and playing and performing in front of thousands of people and inspiring people with my gifts, with my talents. And at the time, I really didn't have any gifts, you know, as a five-year-old brat who wasn't athletic at all, but it was a dream. And it's something fascinating, you know, when we can spend two, three, four decades of our life having a dream and taking daily actions toward those dreams and doing whatever it takes and making our dreams come true. It's such a powerful thing when we can have dreams, believe it and see them come true. And sometimes we can achieve our dreams in a month or a few months and sometimes it's decades. You know, I think of Presidents of the United States, they spend five decades living, having this dream before they actually live it. And for me, it's been all about the journey. There's been so many ups and downs and sacrifices to achieve my dreams. And I think something that I've been really fond of and excited about is letting people know that, hey, it's all about the delayed gratification journey. It's not about having it all right now, but it's about the journey to having it all. And that's for me what it's been about. - Wow, so your journey has taken, your life has taken some twists and turns. Walk us through that. What happened with football? - Yeah, my dream was to be a pro football player and I made the Arena Football League and was trying to work my way up to the National Football League here in the U.S. And the first season I got injured, I was diving to catch a football, I played wide receiver. I dove to catch a football and I dove into a wall and the Arena Football, there's walls, yeah. So I dove and broke my wrist and played the next 14 games with a broken wrist, just taped up. And then because of that constant pounding on my wrist for those months, I had to have surgery, they took a bone out of my hip and put it into my wrist. And for the next six months, I was in a full arm cast. And this is a guy, I'd never had taken any medicine really before that, I'd never had any shots, I'd never been unconscious, I'd never had any of these experiences because I grew up in a pretty faith-based religion called Christian Science where my father was very to the word, he lived by the word, definitely wasn't a perfect human being himself, but he wanted us to live by the inspired word of the Bible and the other book that we read called The Science and Health. And so I never had shots when I was a kid, I was the kid that always had permission slips when we had to go do certain things, I didn't have to get the shots and this and that and take medicine. And so when I had this injury, it was interesting because they put me under and they gave me too much morphine. And when I woke up, it took me like hours to wake up. - Oh wow. - And when I finally did wake up, all I remember is the nurse saying, "Lewis, you need to stay awake, something is not working with your heart, you need to stay awake." And it was, I couldn't open my eyes. Like I could hear this and I was, it's so much pain. It was just like the most uncomfortable experience I've ever felt because of this morphine, I don't know what it was doing in my body. But I think they gave me a lot because I was a big guy so they thought I could handle it. But my body, I never been drunk, I never been high in my life still this day, so my body was not used to the type of substances. I just remember like, it felt so good to go to sleep after they woke me up. And it was like every minute they would wake me up because I would pass out, I'd fall asleep. And then I'd start hearing these like loud beeping noises. And then the nurse was like screaming and like shaking me, like, "You need to stay awake, you need to stay awake." And so I'd like frantically wake up. This happened for like an hour and a half, right? Wake up, fall asleep every couple of minutes. They'd shake me, I hear these loud beeping noises. And it wasn't until my girlfriend at the time who came in, I don't think I've ever told this story, actually my girlfriend at the time came in and she like grabbed my hand and I eventually like fully woke up where I was breathing normally and my heart was working. And then the doctor came in, he was like, "We had a little scare there, but I think we're gonna be okay." - Whoa, how old were you when this happened, Lewis? - It was like 23. - Oh my goodness, that's pretty young to like almost die. - It was nuts, yeah. - Clearly they were worried about it because-- - It was intense, yeah. - It was intense. - Wow, wow, so that was the end of the football. I mean, I thought I was gonna come back in like six weeks and I thought I was superhuman at the time and I could overcome any injury. But it was, I mean, I had 20 staples in my hip, I couldn't walk for six weeks 'cause I was bent over with these staples in my hip and it took six months 'til I got the cast off and then another year of just rehabbing my arm from the fatigue, the atrophy. And I missed two seasons, it was really challenging for me to come back at that time and it was time to move on. I just didn't know what I was gonna do next. - So what did you do? - Well, first I was in denial for a number of months and sleeping on my sister's couch for about a year and a half while I was recovering, just trying to figure out what the next step was. I mean, I was 23, I think I was just maybe just turned 24. And I had this taste of a lifestyle that was so beautiful. I mean, imagine getting to wake up every single day doing the thing that you dream of and getting paid to do it. That's what my day was like every single day. And I couldn't fathom not having that the rest of my life. You know, when you go have first class on a flight, it's hard to go back and coach. - In the back by the bathroom. - It's hard, man, you know, it's manageable, it's fine, but it's like, I'd rather not go experience first class and I'll be fine. But when I, you know, when I had that taste and I was just like, I can't see myself just going to work a job that I don't love or I'm not believing or it's not fun or I don't get to do everything I wanna do. I'm like, we get to create a life that we want. And it's a blank canvas, we get to design it. We don't have to allow someone else to design it for us if we don't want to. And for a couple of years, I was just struggling with the fact, well, how am I gonna make money though? I need to provide for myself. I was living off my sister on her couch for a year and a half and then my brother was kind of like giving me some cash every now and then when I need it. And I was pretty much living off my family. But as a 24-year-old at the time, I didn't feel like a grown human being. I didn't feel like a grown man that I could take care of myself 'cause I couldn't. And I reached out, I eventually got over the fact, okay, I'm not gonna be playing football anymore. And that took some time for me to not be in denial and to accept it and acknowledge it. - I was kidding. It was a struggle 'cause that was my whole dream, that was my life and I didn't have a backup plan. So once I was like, okay, I'm gonna have to do something else in my life, what is that next step? I just started reaching out to mentors and people that I really admired their life and how they showed up in the world and their integrity and their vision. I was just inspired by them, that I spent quality time with them. And then I said, what are my big fears that have been holding me back? One of them was public speaking. I was terrified to speak in front of a small group of five to 10 people. And so I started throwing myself in different challenges. I went to Toastmasters for a year, every week, I would go and present in front of a group of really skillful professional speakers and it was terrified to do it. I started hosting events, I started reading, I started learning different things that was challenging for me because I wanted to overcome the things that were holding me back. And that was the process of starting my own business and learning and getting mentors and figuring out what value I could bring to the world and where I was good at. - Wow, so you did that for a little while and then how did handball come into the picture? - Yeah, after I got my cast off, I got off in March of 2008 and the Olympics was in July, I believe, of 2008, so a couple of months afterwards, you know, I'm pretty much glued to the TV every four years for those two weeks because I'm so inspired by the Summer Olympics, you know, it's the Catholic, all American and college and I thought about training for to try to make the USA national team as a Catholic and go to the Olympics, it's always been a dream to go to the Olympics, be a pro athlete and the Olympics are my two dreams. When I watched the Olympics that year, you know, it's depressed still that I wasn't playing football and this and that and I watched the Olympics and one night during the Olympics, the sport handball came on, team handball and I'd never seen the sport before, it came on at like two or three a.m., probably one night I was watching highlights and it became obsessed with it. I was like, what is this sport and how have I never heard of it? I started researching it and watching videos and realized that it was a very popular sport in Europe and but it was pretty much unknown in the US and it's more popular than I believe in Canada, there's actually a bunch more teams there in Canada and Montreal and Toronto. - Good for us. - Yeah, exactly. But I remember being obsessed with this, I was like, man, how come I never heard about this? And started researching, is there a USA national team 'cause they weren't in the Olympics, what does it take to make the team? And eventually, long story short, there's no professional league in the US but there are club teams in major cities, probably yelling out 20 different club teams and the New York City club team was the best team, they'd won the national championships the last few years. And I tried to get in touch with people at the USA Handball Federation, at the New York club team, I tried to contact anyone I could and no one would get back to me. And I said to myself, you know, when I make enough money, I am going to move to New York City, I'm gonna join this New York team, I'm gonna make the USA national team and I'm gonna go to the Olympics. That's my next dream. And this was me after being in the, I was like, okay, here's my next sports opportunity. And, but I was like, all my sister's couch still broke, not sure what I was gonna do. And, but I made that declaration, I made that dream. And two years later, I, things started to happen in my business and I started to make money online and doing these events and writing books. And I made enough money, I saved enough money that I finally got my own apartment in Columbus, Ohio for 4.95 a month, which I thought was so much money at the time. - Right. - And then I said, okay, I've got to have money saved, I'm gonna go to New York for a month, I'm gonna rent a place for a month. And still, in those two years, wasn't able to contact anyone from this team in New York, or the USA, no one would get back to me. And, but they had their practice schedule on their website with the address of where they practice. So I just showed up one day and said, hey guys, my name's Lewis Howes, I'm here to learn how to play handball and make the USA national team and go to the Olympics. I was the only American there, they were all European guys who used to play professional in Europe who now moved to New York. And they all laughed at me, but nine months later, they eventually took me under their wing, I trained like a maniac on a mission for nine months, leading up to the next national championships and made the USA national team after those national championships and played in Argentina and Brazil and Uruguay and Spain over the last four years. And it's been my goal to make the Olympics. We didn't qualify for the Olympics this time for 2016, but it's, you know, still passionate. - Still there, still there. That's awesome. So you mentioned your business. How did you start that and then just tell us what you do? Lifestyle entrepreneurs. - Yeah, I mean, early on, I had no clue what I was doing. I just was on LinkedIn about six to eight hours a day, connecting with people, trying to find opportunities, learning from mentors and successful people online who are on LinkedIn. And I would get emails from my friends saying, "Hey, your profile looks amazing. "Can you help me with mine? "Or can you make an introduction to this person "that you're connected to on LinkedIn?" So I started making introductions for people. I started helping people with their profile, making it look better. And then one of my friends, after I helped him, just gave me $100. He said, "This is a game changer. "Take this $100." You earned it. And I was like, "Really? "You would pay me for this?" He was like, "Definitely." Two weeks later, he was like, "I made $10,000 from what you told me "what to do on LinkedIn through a new client." Like, you need to start doing this. Yeah, and so I started doing this for people. You know, I was charging $100, $200, $300 for these LinkedIn profile makeovers that people would reach out to me for. And then I was just like, "Okay, how do I scale this?" You know? So I can't cancel this one on one forever. How do I scale this? Another mentor helped me write a book about LinkedIn where I was selling books and giving the information everyone through my books, supposed to having to teach one-on-one. Then I started doing events around the country. I did 20 events around LinkedIn, teaching people how to do it. Then webinars came into my life and I made $6,200 in an hour from a webinar teaching the same thing I was teaching on a one-on-one profile to a larger audience. And that's when things started to click. That was like, I could do this every day for the rest of my life. I make $6,200 in an hour. And I've done probably close to a thousand webinars in the last six years since that moment. And it's just evolved from there. I've created a number of courses and done a lot of events and done software and membership sites, books. - All around LinkedIn or you've done originally? - Originally it was LinkedIn and then people were like, "Can you teach me Facebook and can you teach me YouTube and Twitter?" And so I started creating courses around that. Then people were just like, "Man, can you teach me to build an online business? Can you teach me how you've done it all?" Everything I've done and built, people wanna know how to do it. And that's what I'm doing. - Back to maximizing your gifts. - That's it. - It has become one of the most listened to podcasters on planet Earth, which is incredible, right? Three years podcasting. - It's been a blast. - It was a thousand downloads a month. That's nuts. - And you know what it came from, adversity. The podcast came from, I moved from New York City. My life was on fire. I was on the USA national team. I was doing great things, making good money. I was doing awesome, inspiring stuff. And I met a girl that I fell for hard, who lived in LA. Ended up moving. The day I moved, she broke up with me. - Oh. - And you know, we ended up kind of getting back together a few times here and there for the next few months, but it was just like a miserable, down moment in my life for me. - Yeah. - And I had just sold my company. I was like, you know, sad and kind of down and out about myself with this relationship. And I just moved and I was in love with New York and I had no clue what to do in LA. And I was driving in LA a bunch to go visit her back and forth and was just stuck in traffic constantly. You know, two miles in LA, it takes an hour to get somewhere. And I remember thinking there's got to be a way to like leverage this. People are just stuck in traffic. And I was asking guys like Pat Flynn and other friends, I was like, what's the best way you're, you know, getting exposure to your programs and your website? And they were saying podcast at the time. I was like, really people listen to these things? And I was like, if these guys could do it, I could do it. So I literally launched a podcast and I was like, what is it I want to talk about? It's not, for me, it's not about business and marketing alone, but people ask me about it all the time. But I was like, I want it to be broader. I want it to be inspiring, something I would listen to. And what does that look like? For me, it looks like interviewing some of the most inspiring people in the world from all walks of life and learning what it means to be great. So that's when the school greatness is born. Yeah. And you, one of the subjects you cover on your podcast a couple of times from a few different angles is broadly construed spirituality, right? Yes. Yeah. How do you think, do you think spirituality and greatness are linked, Lewis, in your view? Yeah, definitely. I mean, spirituality is a powerful thing when we can connect to our source or God, energy, whatever we want to call it, the thing that our creator. Right. Because it's hard to achieve greatness when we just think we're here for an accident. You know, when it's just chaos and, you know, there's no bigger plan or purpose. It's hard to be on track with our vision if we're just think everything's an accident. So for me, the power of belief in something is important. And spirituality for me is a key component, even though I haven't really been, you know, integrated into the religion that I grew up in. You know, I have some, you know, I'm constantly questioning a lot of things, but I still stay strong to certain beliefs. But religion for me is challenging sometimes because of the judgment that comes from some religions and, you know, from certain people who are good people, but bring judgment, and that's why I try to believe more in spirituality and faith and focus on the religion itself. So, yeah, I think that's very fair. And I think there's a lot, I mean, predominantly, as I talked about before we started the podcast, you know, I have Christian ministry leaders here. Tell me, tell me what that aspect of judgment, because I think a lot of us first of all feel terrible about it and secondly are guilty of it to some extent. We all judge. But how has that judgment played a role in your life or shaping your beliefs or, you know, where have you seen religious leaders where you're like, wow, I admire that. And then you look at others and go, but not that. Just can't get into that. What are the barriers? - Here's the thing. Someone once told me as long as we're breathing, we're always gonna be out of integrity. And it's like, it's so challenging to be a perfect human being that lives in zero judgment and, you know, perfect thoughts. It's just like it's not gonna happen. And even the Dalai Lama probably has, you know, some thoughts that aren't the purest of all times. - I would imagine. - Right? - Yeah, I would imagine. - I mean, this is all of us, we're human beings. And it's okay. You know, and greatness is not about being perfect. It's about giving our best at all times. And that looks different for different people. For me, it's just a challenge because I believe in spirituality and God and faith. But when we put the terms religion on with things and there's a business around religion, then there's just, you know, integrity gets questioned. And people are out of integrity sometimes where it becomes more salesy as opposed to the true essence of spirituality. And listen, I get it. If I was, you know, in the religion, had a religion that I were a pastor, then it would be a fine line between, you know, preaching and selling, but really it's all sales. We're all, it's all an enrollment game. Life is about enrolling people in our vision. If our vision is to, you know, come out with a book or a podcast or to end world hunger. We're enrolling, we're preaching, we're selling people our ideas on a constant basis. If we have a belief in the Bible and God, we're enrolling our community in believing the same vision that we have. And it's just sometimes can get messy and judgment and people can question your integrity and things like that. So I try to strip the question of religion from things and understand that, you know, everyone is, in religion is trying to be the best they can be. And I believe in God and that, you know, she has a great plan for me and to trust in the universe that all is going to happen, the way it needs to happen. - So how do you think faith, religious or non-religious, has played a part in shaping who you are today? - Yes. - And you could even-- - So big, yeah, it has been. - I'm in a game changer because, you know, my father was very, you know, strict on me and my other siblings on going to church and Sunday school and for me, Christian science, there were so many different things we'd learned. But the biggest thing that I learned was that, you know, spiritual, being spiritual is what we're striving towards and that our mind is more powerful than our body. And for me, the greatest lessons I learned that I hold on to today is that we're all perfect human beings and we're all spiritual ideas of God and therefore can never be physically harmed. And that's what I grew up believing in, that we are spiritual, perfect spiritual, children of God that can never be physically harmed and there are no accidents in his kingdom. And growing up like that as an athlete, you know, I was very confused, so confused because I had these hormones, I had, you know, these urges and I was like, well, I'm supposed to be spiritual but I am so, you know, sexually drawn to women and just, you know, I have these, you know, constant, you know, urges and constantly playing sports and aggressive and, you know, I'm physical constantly. So it was just a conflicting message always, but I remember in sports always thinking, you know, I am a spiritual, perfect spiritual child of God. I'm gonna thought, I'm gonna idea and my mind is bigger than my body. And it actually was so powerful. I had so many incredible healings throughout my childhood. You know, healings from, that things were not supposed to be healed physically and the time they were healed, that doctors were always confused. I had a broken bone one time where I got an x-ray and then came back two weeks later and it was perfectly healed where they were just sitting in shock and they were like, how is this possible? I'm supposed to have surgery. You know, so many moments where I practiced my faith and leaned on healing spiritually as opposed to healing physically where it created more belief in me of what, of God's power and my spiritual power, so. - So how do you interpret that today when you look back at those healings? - You know, it's interesting because I'm still constantly, you know, I meet some of the most inspiring people in the world who have different ideas and beliefs and they've achieved great results and they all have their own opinion. And so I'm just constantly in the question of what's possible, what's possible in the world. And so what I learned growing up as a kid, I'm still in question, is there something else available for me, is there something else that could work for me? Is there something that's maybe true that I thought wasn't true before? You know, I'm constantly, I've never set in a certain way with really anything. I'm open to any possibility and that can be, you know, a great thing and sometimes it can hold me back. You know, blind faith is sometimes better than knowing it all, I guess, but it's, yeah. - I see that openness, Lewis. Like I hear it in the interviews you do with different people and the things I've heard you do. So if I can ask you a question, if there was a faith community that you were gonna be a part of, what would be some key ingredients? And I'm not talking necessarily about joining an institution or an organization, but like if there was a group of people that you would get together with around, you know, faith or spirituality, what would have to be some non-negotiables for you? You would be like, wow, I'd be attracted to that. - Sure, zero judgment, like unconditional love and zero judgment, which is funny that I say that because, you know, being in a relationship if I was to be an exclusive married relationship, you know, I would wanna think that there was unconditional love, but really there's conditions on our, on whether we are with someone or not or whether we attract people to our life or not. If someone is nasty and negative to me for years, I'm probably not gonna have them in my life. And, you know, so there are some conditions to spending time with people, but the love is unconditional for people. So for me, I would want support and understanding, support and understanding of who people are, where they come from. I would want zero judgment, which I think is probably impossible to do, but I'd want that basis. - You'd want it pretty close, yeah. - I would want people to come from love and support. And it would be a support of helping people get to that next level in their life, whatever that level looks like. It would be a foundation of love. It'd be a foundation of service and giving and how can we give to one another? And how can we think bigger to give to the world? Those would be kind of the foundation points, and it would be all about how we can support each other and getting to that next step in life and creating deeper love, intimacy and fulfillment with one another. - You know, I really appreciate you saying that. It reminds me an awful lot of what I believe the early church to be. You know, when I read the scripture, I read the book of Acts or something like that. And I think we can probably all relate to the fact that, you know, we've been parts of communities even as Christians that haven't been non-judgmental and haven't been affirming, but we're striving toward that, right? As you say, we're striving towards something different. And I've been fortunate to be part of communities that have been encouraging. Now, Louis, you gave a talk very recently. It's not available for public consumption yet, but I had friends who were there at the World Domination Summit. I mean, a real honor to be asked to speak there. - Yeah, it was great. - And you talked about the mask of masculinity, the mask of masculinity. Can you say most men wear this? Can you talk about that a little bit? What did you need? - Sure, you know, for my whole life, I grew up in culture and TV and peers and thinking that I had to be a certain way as a man, grow up, not crying, grow up, you know, rubbing the dirt in my wounds and rubbing it off and all these different things, right? Just this, that my worth as a man is in my accomplishments and the money I make and realized for years that that wasn't serving me and it wasn't until after my last breakup with the girl I moved to LA for, where I realized like, man, just my, I wasn't able to understand my emotions fully and I was reacting a lot and I was angry and resentful and I was just like, why am I this way and why have I been so defensive in certain moments of my life? I just started to evaluate and be aware of situations and reenact them in my life. And I was like, you know, this hasn't been serving me. I'm 30 at the time, I was 30 years old and I was just like, why do I react in these situations? Why am I defensive? Why am I angry in certain places in my life? And I started to take a deeper look at it and I realized that I just wasn't willing to be vulnerable and I was always trying to look perfect and I was always trying to wear on this mask. And I think, you know, that is true all the time. I was very sensitive and emotional in a lot of ways and very loving and caring, human being. That was my foundation, but I felt like I had to wear this mask and be portrayed in a perfect way and the people that are surrounding me. And I just said, you know what? I'm dropping this because it's not working for me and I'm gonna come from love and vulnerability and intimacy. And for the last couple of years, coming from that place has been a total healing process for me but also for I think for the people around me. When I just show up every moment as a vulnerable human being and that doesn't mean I need to be crying constantly and be weak and pathetic. What it means is showing my authentic self and being true and being honest at all times. And that could be with my energy, that could be with my words, with my actions. And I just committed to myself, I'm gonna be doing this, you know, and I haven't been 100% perfect at it, but I come from it as often as possible when appropriate and I feel like, you know, this myth of masculinity, it's the thing that a lot of men, it holds a lot of men back as this masculinity that they feel like they need to live up to. And when I gave this presentation, I talked about, you know, all the myths and how I've broken them down and what's been available for me in my life since taking down the mask. And really the key to success in life is relationships. - Wow. - And the key to successful relationships is vulnerability because that's the way to connect the quickest and the deepest and the most real with people is when one person drops their guard and shows themselves in some way and the other person is able to do the same. I feel like you can create, you know, if you do that with someone in the first five minutes and meeting them, if you've never met them before, you can feel like you've been friends for life and you can feel like you can tell them anything once you've established that connection of vulnerability and for me, that's been a really powerful experience. - And you did that at the summit. I mean, you talked about some painful chapters in your life. I mean, as you have already on this podcast and wow. - Yeah. - So here's a question for you. I love it because you asked me, you asked somebody on your podcast this question and I thought, "Wow, you know what? "That's a great question. "I'm gonna ask who is this?" Okay, among all the interviews you've done over the years and there have been many, what's the one question no one has asked you? Yeah, you wish they would have asked you. - That's a good question, right? - Yeah, yeah, it is a good question. - Oh man, I haven't even thought about it for myself. You know what, the question that just popped up for me maybe is like, what's the dream you've always had but you've always been afraid to share or tell someone about? So let me think about it. So the dream I've always had that I've always been afraid to tell people about, you know, I don't know if I'm afraid to tell people about this but this is something that like a dream I've always had is I always wanna be, I always thought it'd be great to be like a professional singer and to perform in front of large audiences and make music and I'll share with you something. I don't wear they watch too much TV. But I watch a couple of shows that are singing shows, Glee and Nashville, and I'm obsessed with them. And I think it's 'cause I wish I was on those shows. I wish I had that talent and that skill because when people can sing so beautifully with passion, it just inspires me so much and it just connects to my soul when someone has that gift and I think it's just an inspiring gift. So my dream would be to be able to perform and sing and write music one day, but I'm just not that talented of a singer, so that's my dream. - That's cool and that's vulnerable. - Yeah. - That's good. Okay, lightning ground, Lewis, 'cause we're coming into the home stretch. You have interviewed a lot of world-class leaders. Any common characteristics of greatness you see, it's just like, wow, this one just shows up over and over and over again. You got a top three or top five. - I mean, that's the reason I wrote this book 'cause it-- - Absolutely. It came down to eight principles, but I'll talk about, I'll talk about the, you know, the first one is vision. I mean, everyone has a powerful vision. I mean, from the Olympic gold medalist to spiritual leaders to New York time best-selling authors, doctors and scientists, they all, to people who've sold their company for a billion dollars, they all have such a powerful vision. And I think this is what holds a lot of people back 'cause they don't know what they want. Or they're like, well, I want this and this and this. They're not clear and they don't take the action to get it. So the first thing is having a clear, powerful vision. Another common theme is hustle, you know, that these great leaders in the world, people have built companies or built communities or built churches, they don't just show up sometimes when they want to, you know, and give a little bit of effort. They hustle over decades to get to where they want to be. And it's a constant craft. Like their hustle is an artistic expression in itself and it doesn't have to be this, you know, super hard, it's hard work, but it doesn't have to be like painful work. It can still be fun hustle. And when people have learned to master and develop that hustle, it's a common theme. And then I would say the final two final common themes that I see is, I mean, they're all great, but I mean, they all have winning teams around them. And they've learned how to build relationship with their team and inspire greatness in their team because we cannot achieve greatness on our own, you know, even a pastor of a church. May seem like they're running the show. There's probably a hundred people supporting them that are being paid. And then another thousand who are supporting volunteers and then even more that make it so the production can happen on a weekly basis. So bidding on a team. And then something I feel like, you know, whether they talk about it or not, I feel like they're doing this. And this is the final principle. And I think the most important is living a life of service. And I think a pastor listening would appreciate this because I feel like you aren't great unless you're giving and living in service. And that can be through your work, that can be outside of your work, giving additional time, whether it be to the church or to your community or just smiling to someone down the street, but constantly being in and of service every moment walking through life, you are service. And I think that is a key distinction of a true leader, someone who is service. It may look like they're building a business and making a lot of money, but really their mission, their vision, it comes from a place to serve people through their business or through their mission. And I think when people come from a place of service, even if you're an athlete, you know, my mission is an athlete, it was really to be a great athlete, but my real mission was, you know, I'm gonna train and sacrifice my body and all these hours of hard work. So for those four hours on Sundays, when people show up, I can show them my gifts and inspire them to be better in their life. Like that was my mission. - That is cool. - To serve people, even if it was one play, they were like, wow, that one play inspired me to go work out today or inspired me to go tell someone I love them, whatever it was, I wanted to serve people with inspiration. - I've never heard an athlete say that. That is incredible and really inspiring. And you know what? There's a lot of resonance here with, I think, a lot of what our listeners are about and certainly, you know, with Jesus, if you look at spiritual figures. Those are definitely things that we would find in him. So today's an exciting day, Louis, as we wrap up. It is the launch day for your book, The School of Greatness. And so it's officially available today. I hope a lot of listeners will go and get it. You've got eight principles of greatness. Anything else you want to tell us about the book on this release day? - You know, this is my, this is my Olympics. You know, I have a qualified field Olympics. So for me, this has been a dream of for seven and a half years. When I was down and out in this cast on my sister's couch, just shortly after I got this cast on, it was Christmas time. And I was with my family and we did Secret Santa that year. So I got one gift and my brother gave me the gift. He didn't even wrap it. He just had a little plastic bag that he like just handed to me and said, "Hey, bro, here's your gift." And it was probably the greatest gift I've ever received in my life. It was a book and the book was called The Four Hour Workweek. - Tim Ferris. - Exactly. And the book itself wasn't the greatest gift, but what it symbolized was the greatest gift and that was possibility. And that day my brother gave me possibility in my life because I had no clue what I was going to do next with my life after this injury. I read the book in three days, cover to cover, and I probably read maybe 10 books prior to that. My whole life cover to cover 'cause I'm a very slow reader. And when I closed the book, I said, this was seven and a half years ago, I said one day, I don't know how I'm gonna do this one day. And I hadn't even graduated college yet at this time. I said one day I am going to become great friends with this guy because I'm just so inspired by him and I wanna be close to him. I'm also going to find out who his agent is for this book because he did an incredible job and he's gonna be my agent. I'm going to write a book with this agent that sells millions of copies and inspires possibility around the world the way this book did for me and how it changed my life. And seven and a half years fast forward now. I'm really close with Tim Ferris. His agent is my agent and the book is out today and the vision is getting closer and closer to creating possibility in the minds of millions of people around the world. - Louis, congratulations. It's incredibly inspiring. I think you've just started. That's what it feels like to me. And you've got a lot of life behind you but a lot of possibility ahead of you. And I know you've encouraged and just thanks for being so honest and so transparent. I know you've encouraged a lot of people today. - Thank you so much, Kerry. Appreciate it for having me on. - Well, there you go. See, that's what I love about Louis. Do you hear how open he is to things spiritual? And I know for a number of years in my leadership of a local church, I just kind of assumed that people who didn't attend church weren't interested in spiritual things. Of course, over the last few years, last decade or more, I realized just how wrong that is. And I live in Canada, we live in a very post Christian culture, probably more so than most regions of the United States. And yet when I talk to people, most people who don't go to church are an atheist, they're just interested. And I think we need to have conversations with more and more leaders like Louis. And just kind of, instead of just trying to persuade them in 20 minutes that I'm right and you're wrong, just listen and see what you can learn and just build a relationship with them. So I'm really glad for the time I had with Louis. He's great. I bought a copy of his book. I want to encourage you to buy a copy of his book today. It releases, it's called "The School of Greatness" and all the links are in the show notes. You can get everything there, including the article I talked about, the Evangelism Conversation No One's Having. And you can find that at karaenuhoff.com/episode59, which also means, guess what? Episode 60 is showing up next week. And we are gonna talk to the one and only amazing, extraordinary Sue Miller. If you know Sue, you just love Sue. She is honestly one of the most positive people I've ever met in my life. And we're gonna talk about what it takes to engage volunteers at your church or in your organization. She is brilliant at it and reflects on decades of experience, leading huge volunteer ministry. She was at Willow Creek for years. Now she's with Orange. It's gonna be a lot of fun to talk to Sue. That's coming up next week. And remember, you can subscribe for free and then you never miss anything. We got some bonus episodes of Ask Kerry coming up. So if you got any questions, go to my blog, karaenuhoff.com, click on the right, got a question and leave me a voicemail. And we'll come back to it in a future bonus episode. Also, if you're enjoying reading Lasting Impact, if you could leave an honest review on Amazon, that would be incredible. And you can just do that by going to the big link. You can go direct to Amazon or just lastingimpactbook.com. So hey, back next week, got some fun stuff ahead on the podcast. Thanks so much. Really do hope this helped you lead like never before. - You've been listening to the Kerry Newhof Leadership Podcast. Join us next time for more insights on leadership, change and personal growth to help you lead like never before. (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]