[MUSIC] >> Don't be sad to get them from the door, Austin Matthews. 16 seconds into the match. >> Carl's just watching the end of it, scores. Alex and your ovenskin. >> Matthew's back up top. >> Gonna sit that through to scores. >> Austin Matthews has two in the game, and now 57. >> They brought the pass off, and that's the score. The beliefs are gonna go home with a set of three wins this period, Washington. >> Anytime we play against, I've ever played against Ovi in my career. It's pretty special, you kind of look over, and wow, it's gonna be a very school square of lots of I'm, and then you look over and I'm out. Well, Austin's right there now too, so I mean, it's crazy to think that Alex can break Wayne's record potentially hopefully, and then Austin's gonna be snipping at that too, so it's really special for guys like us to be able to play in the same my services of guys, and I'm fun and enjoy the moment, just those are two generational talents, and it's great to see them going down like that. [MUSIC] >> Good morning, Joe Sportsman, 5'9" of the van, Ben Annus. Brent Gunning, good morning to you, Brent. >> And good morning to you. >> Good morning to the Toronto Maple Leafs who were no good in Philadelphia. Chuggen, he didn't like any of them. Didn't like him, nope, professionally, personally, didn't like the way they smelled, didn't like the way they looked, didn't like the way they dressed. >> You're assuming things that he did not say. >> He said he didn't like them, said he didn't like them. >> You're right, said he didn't like them. >> That party did say. >> He could have said I liked the way they dressed, I just didn't like the way they played. He just said I didn't like them, anybody. >> He did, didn't like anybody. >> Couldn't find a nice thing to say, did not listen to his mother. It's like, that's what my mother used to tell me if you don't have anything. >> Yeah, don't say anything. >> He doesn't say anything at all. >> Yeah. >> Something tells me there would have been a lot of quiet postcards from Keith. >> Yeah, you know what, John Tortorilla takes that tact all the time, he's like, I won't speak. >> He's like, I will speak about how much I dislike you for asking that question. But answering it, not a chance. >> No chance. >> Lots of like out of yesterday's game as the Toronto Maple Leafs put the hurtin on the Washington Capitol, seven, three, we got the stars on display. Five points in a seven to three victory over the cap spread. That was a nice catharsis after the Leafs first two game losing streak in over a couple of months. >> Yeah, especially all the goals coming in a flurry, I suppose maybe it would have felt better if they were spaced out, but no, it's so fun when you just, you're blank and nice. This game has been put on ice, even CC and simmer were joking, they're like, okay, they're going to run it up to, or they're going to push their win total up to whatever, and then they're like, three goal lead, minute or four goal lead, minute and a half left. Yeah, I think we can say that now. It's like, they know, they know how worried we all are about curses. But yeah, that was exactly what you needed, some catharsis. You had moments where the game felt tight, but really, really it wasn't. You get your big guy rolling. Maybe the most important thing to come out of that game is Matthews getting up just back on the score sheet, but having a truly, truly dominant, dominant night. And that's how we should look when he plays a team where the number two, the first two line centers are Strowman McMichael. That's exactly how Austin Matthews should look. >> Yeah, they should, and boy, I know right now the Washington Capitals are on the outside of the play a picture looking in, but they have a game in hand on the Detroit Red Wings who have that final wild card spot locked down. >> Got to say, it's hockey, anything can happen in the seven game series, you get hot goal, who knows? So it feels like there's an advantage to winning the Atlantic Division this season. >> Yes. >> If that's waiting for you, yeah, I'd say any who, yes, you talk about the dominance of Austin Matthews. Goals four at five on five were four goals against were zero, shot attempts five on five were 17 against were nine. He was dominant, that line was dominant. You want to know what the pace is now, Brent? >> I would love it. >> Because after the hat trick, and I was updating my dad, because he kept texting me, he's like, what's the pace now? What's the pace now? What's the pace now? I was like, it's not really, you can't quite do the pace because, you know, first period, it seconds into the game. >> Hey, you can, you know what I mean? >> I don't know. >> I don't know if it's 60 goals in this game. You could do it. >> Yeah, some nerd out there could cook it up. But yeah, when he had the hat trick, he was up to 69.9 goals, which some people might round up to 70 to me. >> Not you. >> That's just 69. >> Yeah. >> But with a couple of goals, he's now up to a 68.7 goal pace, Brent. So off the 67 goal pace, but I think we can officially say, and not that we were like ringing alarm bells or anything, but it was, yeah, for a guy who was on a 70 goal pace for a prolonged portion of this season, it stood out being not on a 70 goal pace for what? A five, six game stretch is all the way back, I would say. >> Yeah, this is a goal score, man. This is what they look like. They do not score one, you know, 0.7 goals every game. That's not how it works. They have stretches, especially when a guy is the hat trick machine that Matthews has been. And to your point, should have had one last night. >> I mean, God, where's Conor McDavid's rule when you need it? If you've got to spin it around with thousands of different angles. >> What's the more infuriating thing to you? Because there's me we're talking about here, so yes is the answer. >> And like not to be like, listen, I saw the thing that you guys didn't see. I did sit on the like on the zone entry. I did think, oh boy, like that's, well, yeah. What's going to be the more infuriating thing? >> Oh, I know, okay, awesome Matthews finishes with 69 goals or Austin Matthews racks up a couple more hat tricks. What is he at now? Six. >> Yes. >> So say he has three more hat tricks, which is, I mean, he's not finishing with 69 points, like just mathematically, if that's the case. But what would be more infuriating that he's one hat trick away from Wainer's 10 hat tricks in a season or 69 goals? And that's the difference. >> I feel like it have to be the hat tricks because that feels less repeatable. >> Yeah. >> It's insane. Neither one of them is repeatable. But if you ever would have told me a guy in a Leafs uniform would score 50 goals and I'd get to see it. I would have questions about that, let alone 60, let alone ever talk about 70. But that feels like just guys were scoring more, you see it. I don't know that guys are scoring hat tricks more, although it feels like Pasternak has won every he has like, you know, bi-weekly hat tricks. It almost feels like with him going on. So I guess it would be the hat tricks because that feels, and again, they're both extremely unrepeatable. But that feels less repeatable to me than 70 goals, which again, nuts to say that we're even having these conversations. >> No, it's crazy, it is outrageous. And you know, the hat trick was about to happen in the middle of the second period, like the potential existed for more. >> Well, that's the weird thing about him, and this is anecdotal, there are numbers that exist for this, but I'm just going to tell you how I feel, is that it feels like all his hat tricks, like very rarely is it a goal in the beginning of the game, a goal at the middle and a goal at the end, it is- >> Well, it's never kept by an empty netter because he has not. >> Has not. Has not. All legit hat tricks. But it's, think back to the beginning of the season. It's a late flurry against Montreal. He does the exact same thing in the second game against Minnesota. You see it last night, he nearly had the hat trick halfway through the second period. It just seems like he scores in bunches not just in stretches of games, where I think we all could say he's going to play the Oilers, I don't think anybody shocked if he gets one against the Oilers. We see this, but he also scores in bunches in stretches of the game. He's almost like a basketball player in that regard of like, he's heating up, you might want to give him some shots here. It is remarkable what he's able to do, and this is the thing you always have to remember about goal scores is that when he goes on a hot streak the other way and his pace gets up to, and I don't know that it will again this year, but it gets up to 75 goals. It's not going to stay there, but when he cools down, he doesn't score for a week and a half or something along those lines, it's going to go in for him. The other thing we're going to talk about the goal scoring totals, the posts. >> Yeah. Yes. Where, okay. So the record. >> 17. The record is 17, he's won off the pace, he's at 16 goal post hit and he's just had a goal taken off the scoreboard. It's outrageous. Like, I guess, you know, if you're going to score a lot of goals, you're going to hit a lot of posts as well. Like, that is part and parcel of the thing, but it is, yeah, I don't know, half of those hit on the other side of the post. What are we talking about? >> Do you know how many goals Stamco scored in his 17 post season? >> Well, was that the 60 goal season? >> It wasn't. >> The 50 goal season and his 60 goal season came two years after. >> So we got more to come? >> I'm not going to extrapolate it that far, but it is interesting that that was the, that I would have saw that and thought the exact same thing, but it must have been a guy just getting so many good looks that even when he's unlucky, he's still getting 60 and that was actually his 50 goal year. Scary to think if we could have the exact same conversation, if nearly half of those are a little more than half of those go in for Stammer, we're talking about two 60 goal seasons for him in his lifetime. >> Okay, maybe Wainer's single season record of what 92? >> Yeah, maybe. >> I don't think so. >> Thanks, pretty soon. >> Okay, so he's stuck on six hat tricks. He does now set the franchise record for most multi goal games in a season, surpassing his previous record hell, of course, of 21, it was, sorry, in the 21, 22 season of 15, and he now has 16 multi goal games this season. It's great when a guy starts smashing club records early, cuz then he just gets to continue eclipsing himself and he should, like, from, well, I was about to say not from the jump, but from the jump scored four goals in his first game, it was written, like anything less than this guy becoming, sure, and this was before he signed all the contract extensions here, so you never know how long guys gonna be here. But from that moment, he's the number one pick is your franchise center, he scores four goals in the first game, it's not like the Leafs have the all time leading goal scorer in, like, Matt Sundine is not the NHL's all time leading goal scorer. This is not the most impossible hurdle to get over. It kind of was written from the jump and I say this about all of, you know, I say this about LeBron, I say this about Sid, all the guys and Matthews isn't quite on that trajectory of the buzz before he got here, but because he's a leaf, living up to the expectations is always the most impressive thing to me, and the expectations were here again, he's number one pick, they hadn't had one in forever, it's a leaf, but he was also the unknown, he's playing in Zurich, we don't know how to take any of that, and then he scores four goals in the first game and immediately, all right, expectations, pretty high, and he's just lived up to them. We can have the playoff discussion stuff, but that is a team discussion, that is not just about him, it's partially about him, but that's not just about him, it is remarkable that he's been able to live up to the hype that he set for himself, starting in game one. Yeah, it's unbelievable, and five goals in the six game series against the lightning was great, maybe scoring a game seven one day. Anyways, or I'll go the other way, don't play in any game sevens, sure, just take care of your business. Yeah, play 16 games in the postseason and lift the cup over your head, that would, you know, stress free, that'd be fine, anyways, he was spectacular, obviously, that top line was spectacular, just while we're talking goal scoring, I don't know that we've actually talked about this. Do you want Ovechkin to catch Gretzky's record? >> I do, it's weird how I feel that way. >> Okay. >> I do. >> You feel guilty almost. >> Yeah, I do. >> Because JD is yelling at you like, I'm patriotic, but you've been, you're like me and Joey Vano, we both can't stay in this state, no, no, I think it's incredible that guy's playing in very different eras, and yeah, I watched Wayne Gretzky at the tail end of his career, but I watched all of Alexander Ovechkin's career, that a guy could play, you know, he can overlap pretty close to the dead puck era, right? Like this isn't quite devil's Stanley Cup era, but yeah, he played, he did dip his toe in those waters. >> Him and Sidney Crosby killed those waters, basically. >> Yeah, but you know, not have multiple 60 goal seasons, if Austin Matthews ends up with another 60 goal season, he'll be the only active player with multiple 60 goal seasons. He had one, he had a 65 goal season, but to have that type of longevity, to be not as one dimensional, but have the one like type of goal, which we got to see again yesterday on the power play, and even the second one was, it was almost in the same spot, just kind of like different, what a breakdown. >> Ryan Whitney had the best tweet about that of this, this is English for I don't want to get screamed at in Russian on the bench. >> Ryan Stone, Ryan Stromb, Clear as Day or Dylan Stromb, Clear as Day in the slot passing it to a veteran. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But yeah, I want to be able to say that I saw the greatest of all time. Now that being said, I want Austin Matthews to, when all is said and done, surpass Alex Ovechkin, but I am, I'm rooting to be able to watch history. >> I also would like to see it, but it's with an asterisk. I was not a fan of, and you know, maybe the fact that the Leafs had to attach first round pick to this player who turned into Seth Jarvis to get rid of his contract, maybe it's colored by perception of this. That's not a fan of Patrick Marlow, clearly being passed his best before date and hanging on just to get Gordy House record. I wasn't there when Gordy House doing it, maybe people would say at 50 something years old, he was doing the same thing, entirely fair case to make, but I wasn't there, so I'm not going to litigate that. I didn't like Marlow hanging on till the bitter end, just so he could say, I played the most games in the NHL. If Ovechkin legitimately, if he is still going to be ripping off 30-ish goal seasons, good, good on you, shake his hand, wish it was lame, but it's not, and I'm happy to see him break it. But I don't want to see Alex Ovechkin scoring 14 goals in his final NHL season, you know, three years from now to get the record. If he is Alex Ovechkin, when he breaks the record, I'm happy to see it, I'm fine with it. But if it is, well, he's still on power play one, the Capitals are brutal, and he stays out there for two minutes, and he has his 15 goals this year, and that was enough to get it. I don't want to see it like that. Yeah, first half Alex Ovechkin, you don't want to see it, but since the all-star break total, there's been no issue. He's now 50 away from tying Wayne Gretzky's all-time mark, and 51 away from breaking it. There's still, you know, 15 games left in the regular season for him. I mean, the idea that he could break it next year is not out of the realm of possibility, especially if he keeps this pace, the second half pace up, and you look at the first half is maybe just like a shooting percentage anomaly, because this shooting percentage is still like just barely over 10% well below his career average of almost 13%. Yeah. So next year could very easily be the year for Alex Ovechkin, if he keeps this probably going to be two from now. Probably. I don't even know if they still have this, like MLB.com used to have this like milestone tracker. I used to love this stuff because numbers used to matter, but then things got weird. But I would love being like, oh, this guy's going to, they'd say, this guy's expected to get, you know, 3000 hits just to put it on. This probably when Jeter was tracking towards that, and that's why I was keeping tabs on these things. But it's like, this guy's going to hit 3000 hits on April 14th at Petco Parker, whatever it is. Like they would have it down to the day. And who knows? I would love to see that with Ovechkin. And if I'm doing it, it is for, I don't know, November of 2026. That's when we should be ready for, for Wayne Gretzky to be shaking his hand. Yeah. So Max Domi, we played the clip off the top of Max Domi talking about the all-time great goalscores that were on the ice yesterday, and he gave it up to Ovechkin and Ovechkin was very glowing in his praise of awesome Matthews, you have to be when you're chasing Wayne Gretzky. Sure. That'd be coming for the most unassailable guy, and then go, but if obviously Matthews gets my record, that'd be sad. I don't know that. And he said he was rooting for him to score 70 this year, but yeah, Max Domi saying all the right things. And boy, Max Domi has done all the right things this year. Max Domi, not in action, well, I shouldn't say not in actions, but this isn't a knock on all the other guys, but speaks like he's the captain of the team. Yeah. He's very well spoken, and that probably comes from a lifetime in the limelight and being tied to me son and yada, yada, yada, yada, but obviously, and this is, it's going to sound craven, but like, yeah, this guy wants to be here for the duration. Of course. Yeah. And off the hop, it was like, well, you can't be that guy, like, right. And now all of a sudden, he and Tyler Bertuzzi, it's like, do you even think about John Klingberg anymore? I don't. Ryan Reeves is banged up in the eye. You did say his name and I win still a little, but you're right. You're right. You've crept its way in the brain. I mean, the positives you've gotten out of Domi in Bertuzzi in the second half of the season, it feels like it, in a way is just about everything else that that Brad for Living did pre-season. Those guys have been spectacular, even Tyler Bertuzzi as banged up as he was. And boy, we'll talk about the TJ Brody healthy scratch and the thought that was running through. I think everybody's heads, but specifically you and mine about Sheldon Keith really laying down the law, a game after facing John Tortorellas, Philadelphia Flyers, Bertuzzi as sick as he was, standing in front of the net, scoring a great goal in front of the net. Those two guys, it's incredible the narrative shift we've had on both Bertuzzi and Domi. Yeah. And I think the, I think the interesting thing is you would have thought it came the other way in terms of, it feels like their play has come along and that's allowed them to be the Bertuzzi and Domi you were hoping to get of the, you know, the guys who can give you energy, create some of that. But with Domi, I do feel like the physical stuff he leaned into it. It allowed him to kind of flourish. He found a role on the team. The second line center thing opened up, Bertuzzi just needed a few to go in. We had that talk about him, I'm trying to think it was coming out of the, well, I blocked this period out of my mind, but it was coming out of the Sweden trip. And he was playing well. It just wasn't going in for me. He did have the one game over there. I think he had a goal or two, but it just wasn't going in. And for a guy like him who, you know, I don't, I don't think it's a John Klingberg situation where he's sitting there going, and he didn't turn down money, but he's going, Oh my God, what's happened in my free agency this year? But just seeing the puck go in a few times, you can exhale and go, okay, I'm not looking at a, another haircut when I go, when I hit the market again this summer. So I think that's been the case for them in terms of what they've been for the team. They've been the, they've been the missing middle that this team has lacked outside of additions made at the trade deadline for the past handful of seasons. Like the missing middle came last year when they went and got a charry, well, to a lesser extent, a charry much more so O'Reilly. And that's what these guys have given them. You have players that you can bank on to make an impact in the game that you don't pay 10 plus million dollars or won't be starting next year outside of the big four. And that's what this team has needed for so long. And God love Kali Yarnkrock. Sorry. I'm a crook, but he's not that. He is a nice piece to have. You will say I really liked his game, but those guys can be more difference makers. Yarnkrock is a nice piece. You know? >> Yeah, absolutely. Like the ceiling is much higher. And we've seen it when, when those guys- >> Ceiling is the roof, Gordon MJ. >> We've seen it when those guys have played with William Neilander, that that's like the high variance line. But yeah, that there is, there is the high upside of both the Max Domie and Tyler Bertuzzi and Forest Sis for Max Domie yesterday. So mentioned it, no TJ Brody yesterday, interesting. But on this very radio program, I did mention a Luke Fox that it felt like Brody would be the odd man out if he wanted to get Simone Benoit in. >> I'm not saying- >> No, you, yeah, yeah, I did. I mean, I didn't think it was going to happen- >> Do you want me to run down the parlay last night as well? Cuz I did. I cooked one up. I was so proud of myself. >> So I mentioned the possibility of TJ Brody being a healthy scratch come the postseason. I didn't expect it to happen like the same day that we just talked about it. >> We know who Keith's favorite host is on the station. >> I guess. I mean, Joey Votto's listening to this station also is Sheldon Keith as TJ Brody is a healthy scratch. Now, maybe it's just for a game. Maybe it's for, maybe it's an indication of where his mind is leaning as we head towards the postseason. Let's play some Sheldon Keith audio in relation to his thought process in giving TJ Brody his first healthy scratch as a member of the Toronto Maple Leafs. >> It was a good question of whether he was even gonna play tonight. Just before warm-up was saying he just wasn't feeling right and he went through warm-up. Still wasn't quite feeling it, but felt good enough to the point that he was going to stay in uniform. In uniform here tonight, you know, our only other eligible player was Brody who we were sort of given a mental day just a way today anyhow. So, decided to stick with Burton, but he just, he wanted some time. But when the game was going, just getting out there with the noise and all the things that go on in the chaos of the game just to make sure he was good. >> All right. So yeah, he starts that clip talking about Tyler Bertuzzi being quite ill and him already promising TJ Brody, I mean, telling TJ Brody he was gonna be a healthy scratch. Would be quite a mind bender to throw him back in there. And then what? You're gonna do seven defense men? >> He didn't say he was a healthy scratch and Ben. >> Yeah, he said it was a mental health day for TJ Brody. Anyways, what does that indicate to you, Brent? >> I think there is some element of, if you wanna give Brody a night, he's been fighting it a little bit. There's also an element of, there is no outside of Morgan Riley and to a lesser extent Jake McCabe, there's no sacred cows on this blue line. There is nobody that is so far above the others in the packing order again with the exception of those two. I think those two guys have separated themselves just kind of on contract alone, that they are above the others in terms of packing order. I think this is a case of Keith understanding he has to see all these pieces fit and understanding that it's possible the best version of the pieces don't have Brody. I still don't think he thinks that. But I think that if you're gonna sit Simone Benoit, who by performance, and again, you can look at match ups and there's a reason why his expected goals for are what they are and all that. But there's a reason why Simone Benoit has performed better than Brody this year. And it's because he's been the better defenseman a lot of times, again, match ups all of that. But you can't sit Simone Benoit in his hometown in Montreal, give him everything he's done for this and say, absolutely not, TJ Brody, you gotta go out there every single night. I do think that the messaging of it is interesting to make it abundantly clear, this isn't healthy scratch. It is. But he doesn't, he could have called it that and we would have reacted accordingly. But he clearly is, and this goes back to what I was saying yesterday about why it's just different here. And does it have to be? I don't know that it has to be, but it clearly is. I think the player plays into that too though, like not to say that like TJ Brody's confidence is gonna be shaking, but it doesn't seem like the type of guy that you want to like rattle his cage. That's fair. TJ Brody, there's definitely some element to that. I'm going to pose you this question and understand that they're different guys. But do you think John Tortorello will care? Maybe not. Because Sean Couture is a pretty like, again, I'm not going to show him, no, but it does feel like a guy. But he's soft-spoken. Like, yes, yes. He is. He's got that physical edge to him, I don't know. And even in the comments afterwards, I know that we're like, hey, I don't feel like I'm treated very well. But like, doesn't it feel like, yeah, Sean Couture, the best Sean Couture, this season, we're going to see post-healthy scratch. It just, it does feel like Brody relies more on confidence, more in like a Timothy Lillegrine mold than Sean Couture. That's interesting. I wouldn't think that. I wouldn't think that at all, but I just go to the, he's the guy. I mean, furring. Yeah, no, no, I know. It's just he's the guy on the blue line who, like with Timothy Lillegrine, it makes all the sense in the world. It's this is a player who, again, this stuff shouldn't matter anymore, but I think about stuff that happened when I was, you know, I think about stuff from 10, 15 years ago all the time. I'm sure other people do as well. Timothy Lillegrine was supposed to be the number one pick, his draft year. That's where he was trending. He gets mono. He ends up being a middling pick or middling first round pick, not a middling pick, a 17th overall. Then he finds his footing. He is a player who doesn't have all these great experiences he can go back and look on. TJ Brody can remember, I've been great, forget, when I was great with GEO in Calgary, I've been great here. I've been the best defenseman on this team the whole time I've been on this team. So you're right. Maybe there's some element to that. But I would just think that Brody is the best, again, this makes it seem like it's a shot at Lillegrine. It's not. I would think Brody is the biggest pro back there that could just take it all moving and stride. I don't think he likes it. I think he's a competitor. I don't think he goes, "Oh, wow. It's my turn. I'm so happy to take the short, strong, go eat popcorn tonight." I don't think it's that, but I would think if anybody on the blue line could take it for lack of a better term, it'd be him. Yeah, again, we're just, yeah, we're inferring. I do look at the run-up play this season, and yeah, AEGs, oh my goodness, 33. No, I think there's something to like him having, who knows, some bad experiences in the postseason last season didn't go so well for me either, and that rolling over into this year. Anyways, I do expect him to be back in the lineup on Saturday against the Edmunds and Oilers. Seamol Benoit. I mean, nobody was bad, bad. That was a horrible play though. Like in the, on the Obachkin second goal where, I don't know, the line change was also bizarre, but like get the puck away from everybody's feet, just get it down the ice. Well, the funniest part to me is they just, I didn't even know you could change rules mid-season, but they did the like leg over the board thing, and it was like the Leafs were, they heard that and it broke their brains like, "Well, how do we allow it to? I have to keep a leg on the ice at all times." Yes. It looked like there was a stoppage of play and the guys are just hanging out while they scraped the ice or something. There was like five Leafs just standing around the bench. Seamol Benoit was like, "I can get the puck around these legs." Wild. That was, I also like to think that that is being a good teammate to Brody and Riley, saying, "Don't worry. We'll make sure the gaff from this week is not the one from the Philly game that we talk about it'll be." Because that was worse. Yeah. The Philly game gaff was more costly because you lost the game. Yes. And again, actually cost you, but that was just those pee-wee stuff. What are we doing? It looked like they didn't know where the door was. No. Can somebody click it? I don't want to, it's like me coming off the ice after like a skate when we have six guys. I'm like, "No, no, no. No hoping the gate. I'm not going over. Not a chance." And then, I mean, the goal felt like it took forever. Like that Alex Ovechkin, a way to Joe Wall, ends up potting his second. Two more things from this game. Let's talk about Joe Wall and where we are. I actually don't think that that changed my percentage opinion on Ilya Sampsonov being the game one starter. I'm still at 65%. You can question Wall, I suppose, on the goal that goes off his arm or off his back. Yeah. And that one, to me, just feels kind of flooky. They made some saves, but these are two teams with a very different set of skill, I would say. Yeah. They are Liam Neeson, but they don't have an exceptional set of skills. They have none. It's like, if you're taken, that call would be like, "Please be nice to my daughter. I will not be able to get her." But yeah, I think the Joe Wall is fine. It's kind of been what Wall's been since he's been back with the exception of Arizona games. Okay. There were no 10 bellers. There weren't 10 bellers to be asked like, "Yeah, you could have made one on that Ovechkin play where, again, I don't know what Strom's doing passing from the slot, but it ended up in a goal." I think that it didn't, it can't tilt it one way or another. I think that Samsonov to bring it back to yesterday, it's like, if the door is still a jar, and I imagine Samsonov gets the Oilers game, you go back to Wall for the hurricanes this weekend, we're kind of exactly where we were heading into this one. If Samsonov performs, now the thing is that the Oilers, we're going to put more stake on that game than we are the Hurricanes. We just are. The first half of the back-to-back, it's the Oilers. There is always a litmus test, measuring stick, best Canadian team, whatever you want. Not that the Hurricanes game won't matter, but there'll be the built-in stuff. And not to say the team should use it, but it's a back-to-back. You just saw this team with the Oilers. I think that if Samsonov performs well against that team, it will kind of stamp it home in a way that, again, these things can change, but that game will carry so much more weight than I think just about any other until we see who gets the net in that Florida game. Yeah, that's the big one. And then Tom Wilson, with one hander to Noah Greger's face. Well, he saw Jacob Truba just get fined for that earlier this year and said, all right, we're allowed to do that. That's good. Very, very strange for a couple of different reasons. One was like, the immediate reaction from Tom Wilson, which was either like, oh, I was trying to do something else, and I didn't mean to do that, or please don't suspend me or give me that match penalty. But I don't, for the life of me, understand what the defense would be. Like, I don't, I can, do you have one? I know we'll talk to a couple of former NHL players today, and I'll ask them the same thing. Like, I don't understand if Tom Wilson has an in-person hearing, and God forbid he has an in-person hearing where the NHL could suspend him for more than five games. I don't think he's going to be suspended for more than five games, even though I stacked what Morgan Riley did up against hitting somebody in the face, intentionally with your stick. And it's hard for me to say that Morgan Riley's, what he did to Ridley Gregg was more egregious than Tom Wilson, but it was just a very like a head-scratching play, honestly. From a player that you would expect, that type of thing from, but not a game with a ton of animosity, and just, like Noah Greger, what's happening? >> No, I think that that was a case of reckless not trying to hurt somebody. I really do. >> What was he trying to do? >> I think he was trying to get around him, and he was passing his stick from one hand to the other. I think that is what he was trying to do. If I'm looking at the play, that is what I think was a case. There's a reason. I don't think, Tom, so what do you think, when he acts the way he does after, he realized that that was as greasy as it was, and he's like, I better put on my best academy award performance so that this doesn't seem intentional? >> Fred, there's no way, I'm just looking at it again, that defense, it's scary, no weight. That's my first blush reaction. >> I guess. >> You asked me about that play. That's what I think he's going to say. That is going to be the defense, I think, of him trying to get around the player. >> To me, and again, the history does play into it, and I guess you, as the open right hand behind his head, but I don't know, the whipping of the stick, you're battling the player. >> You think he said to himself, I'm going to one hand slash no one in the face. >> Maybe not intentionally in the face, but this gives me plausible deniability that, yeah, people like you who want to defend, Tom, I don't think, no, you don't want a good Toronto boy. But yeah. >> It's funny, I was actually talking about the answering machine that I think it was this dad who used to live in like North Toronto Arena. >> That's right. Yeah, I think he can, I mean, that would be the explanation given to the Department of Player Safety, but I don't think, I don't think he sat there and tried to slash Noah Gregor, even like what he's going to one hand slash him across the chest, is that what he's doing? Like I'll go the other way. I'm not even like, I'm a rarity here, I'm not even willing to say that I have to be right in this instance. What's your argument? What do you think he, you think he was just trying to slash him in the face, you think he was trying to slash his wrist and it rode up? >> Yeah, he's just trying to whack him, I think, because I think he doesn't want to whack him in the face. But to Morgan Riley, and like God, we litigated this to death and thank you, Morgan Riley, for doing that. Much like Michael Bunting sacrificed himself to allow the Leafs to get to the second round of the playoffs. You sacrificed your five game checks to save the Leafs season when they found some gumption in life after that. But Morgan Riley saw a guy do something he didn't like. >> Yeah, there's no debate in the intentionality. >> And then cross-checked him shoulder, head, neck, whatever. Again, we don't need to really litigate it, but that was so clearly intentional. He was aggravated. He tried to hurt a player. I just think that was Tom Wilson being incredible. >> He didn't mean to him in the face, though. >> He was being incredibly reckless. >> Yeah. >> Intentionally, intentionally dangerous with Morgan Riley, and again, just to state where I stand on this, thank you. I want to shake your hand for doing that. Good job by you. Fridly Greg does it again. I hope you get suspended for 20 games. But with Tom Wilson, I think that that's just, again, if you believe that he is putting on an act, he's the world's greatest actor to be in an NHL game, and immediately, all right, three, two, one, and scene. Noah, are you all right? Oh, let me hug you. Let me gesture to the officials. So what an accident it was. I really think it was just a, it was a weird play, it's reckless, it was a stick. And this is the conversation we have all the time. Being reckless is sometimes worse than being dangerous, because you don't know what you're doing, and you can hurt somebody in a way. So I'm not even saying he should 1000% escape penalty, or there's no way that he can be punished for this, but I think it was reckless as opposed to intentional. Well, you know, who agrees with the officials on the ice, because they gave him a double minor and not five in a game match penalty. I forget who it was. Somebody smoked a leaf from behind in that game as well, and then just missed a call, but yeah, whatever. Yeah. This thing's happened. Anyways, more leaf talk to come. Really? Later on in the program. Yeah. It's three hours. This is going to be lots of leaf talk. But when we come back, Blue Jays with a trade. So Shohail Tani breaking through our sports biosphere into the world of real news with a very bizarre story yesterday. We'll try and make sense of it also give you an update on what's happening in Korea right now as Yoshinubo Yamamoto, not off to the world's greatest start in his Dodgers debut. Matt Mornax, as the fan morning show continues, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, sports at 590 the fan. Hey, it's Aylish for a Fire. And I'm Justin Cusford. Join us as we discuss the most important sports stories of the day and tee up the biggest games in the world. All right, fan morning show sports at 590 the fan, Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, that was Dodgers manager Dave Roberts today in Korea as this story breaking overnight in Seoul. And so the the broadcasters, the reporters that are there for the season opening series between the Dodgers and Padres had to get up to speed very quickly, except for the ones that were doing the reporting and actually interviewed Shouyeo Tani's interpreter, Ype Mizuhara, who is the subject of this malfeasance, let's call it. Okay, I'm going to attempt to break this thing down. Before you start, I just I want to shake your hand and wish you good luck. Thanks. It's you should read the the accounting of this story on ESPN because it's incredible journalism. So, this is where the investigative journalism, the investigative journalists do their best work and stories like this that come out of nowhere, right, that have been worked on for months and months and months behind the scene. And without this investigative journalism, this story would never come to light, I expect. But so there's a an illegal bookmaker in California who's under federal investigation. And I think as a result of this federal investigation, some of the documents that he had have been made public. >> Yeah. >> And I'm sure what happened is an ESPN reporter found Shouyeo Tani's name on like a ledger sending wire transfers to an illegal bookmaker because sports gambling illegal in the state of California. >> So, Shouyeo, our sensibilities around sports betting have been very much changed over the last five years. >> Yeah. >> And eventually, you would think that everywhere in North America, it will be fully legal and we're trending in that direction. But as it stands right now, not currently legal in the state of California, anyways, this guy's under federal investigation for taking illegal bets. Now, this ESPN reporter saw this, they approached Shouyeo Tani and his representatives. And a spokesperson for Shouyeo Tani directed them to the interpreter. The interpreter was going to sit down for a 90 minute conversation with this ESPN reporter. Everybody agreed that this is the best course of action. During that conversation, he talked about being in massive gambling debt. And that Shouye just bailed him out, $4.5 million worth of gambling debt. But that was Shouyeo Tani's getting him out of this deep dark hole. And understanding the story that was relayed to the ESPN reporter, Shouyeo Tani's spokesperson said, forget it, we now disavow everything this guy said, and there was massive theft that happened. He's also changed his story since then, and there still has to be more to come here. Now, it should also be said that nobody is reporting that there was any gambling on baseball. There's sports gambling that's taking place here, and it is legal for major league baseball players to gamble on sports outside of baseball. But this is a story that's not going away anytime soon. >> No, not at all. I mean, we talked about, this will shock everyone, I'm going to connect it to the hockey world. We talked about the Shane Pinto story at Nazium and no offense to the Ottawa Senators or Shane Pinto, but they're the Ottawa Senators and Shane Pinto. This is arguably a top what, in North American sports, and I'm going by like the mom test here. It's like outside of, I don't know, like LeBron, how many athletes have more name recognition than Shouyeo Tani? This is broke containment beyond sports. This is no longer a sports story. This is the, and again, like we'll put it to all the people in this country. Just people, this is the jet guy, that's how important he is that you were all tracking. This can't not be the biggest story in sport right now. It's gambling. It's where all the money is coming from in terms of like, look at all the advertising revenue you see. It is a massive, massive part of sports right now, and to have, and I think the other part that has to be included in all this is that O'Tani is such a mystery to us all. You can kind of paint whatever version of him you want, because he's such a blank box. It's like, we know he loves baseball, and we know nothing else. So I think that's the other part that makes this so interesting as well is that he's such a blank canvas. You can kind of paint, and because the details are so wishy-washy, people are going to paint a lot of different versions of this story until we actually figure out what's going on. As is always the case, the cover up is probably worse than the crime, almost always. To me, I mean, if the reality is, show how O'Tani's just paying off this guy's gambling debts, which I don't discount as a possibility, four and a half million, that's a lot of gambling debts. That's like, that's a lot of, and the interpreter, Ipe Mizuhara, said like, I've learned my lesson, no more gambling on sports. I'm not very good at it. Like, I literally, yeah, I would have learned that lesson, but you know, right around the two million dollars in debt mark, maybe four and a half. How do you suck so much? I mean, I guess the argument is it's like, you just make a million dollar bets, the last four times or something, but yeah, it's nuts. >> Why? >> So the inference here, and again, I'm just going on what I interpret as the facts here. The inference here is that like, show O'Tani didn't like that story. The story that this guy was telling, that show O'Tani wasn't gambling on sports, but was paying this bookmaker on behalf of Ipe Mizuhara, they didn't like that. That sounded too untoward. And instead, it's a easier story to sell that this guy stole the money. But then how do you explain away his name being on these wire transfers to the bookmaker who's under federal investigation? Being honest and truthful, and first of all, getting all your ducks in a row and knowing exactly how you're going to message to this thing might have been, might have been wise, the idea that you didn't understand that the magnitude of the story would be what it is and the staying power that I assume it's going to have. When you're a $700 million player, you're one of the most recognizable athletes in the world. And certainly the most recognizable in the sport of Major League Baseball, the most famous athlete in Japan, that you wouldn't understand that, hey, this is not just something that we throw this guy to the wolves and he says a story and we haven't totally vetted and we haven't totally understood the impact that that story's going to have on the perception of Shouhei Otani. That you wouldn't have a lawyer step in front of this immediately and say, wait, hold on a second, we have to see what the legal implications of the things we say are. And that we've gone down the line of statements and 90 minute conversations with reporters is insane. >> Yeah, a lawyer, one lawyer for every million dollar he got from the Dodgers is how many he would have to look at this. That's the part that I think is going to have people looking a skew. If they would have just all had the same story and everybody came up with her, it's true or not. And again, we don't know that I think we all would have said, oh, okay, it's a little odd, but all right, we'll move on fair enough. There's nothing tying Otani to this. We can kind of move on. But now that there's the walking back of a story, how can you, I guess, and maybe I shouldn't do it. Maybe it's unfair. Not infer from that that at least something untoward is going on. Because if it was to your point, if it was just the, like, is it the argument that Otani thinks, and again, this is part of the problem with Otani and that we don't know, like, I don't know his values, I don't know how he feels about anything, is just the issue that he's like, gambling, that's dirty, I don't want to be connected to it. Maybe I don't, I don't know. >> It's either it could be that, but I think it's more likely that this type of gambling was illegal, giving money to this bookie in the state of California illegal, and that bookie is under federal investigation. Anyways, hasn't seemingly affected Otani on the field today. He's one for one with a single, but his Dodgers down 5-1 exit v low of 108 off the bat. >> That's good. Top of the second, and one of the other new Dodgers, Yoshinubu Yamamoto, not off to the world's greatest start. He has already gone after three outs, given up five earned runs, four hits, and a walk, and 43 pitches, only 23 strikes. >> Very Jose burrios against the cards of him. >> Yeah, I mean, except he got- >> Three outs. >> Yeah. And that was, I think, against the range is actually two years ago. >> What do I have the cards in my head? >> That crazy comeback wins, that was last year. That was Alec Manoa, being quite poor in the season opener last year. >> Got my bad openers mixed up. >> All right, Bluejay swinging a trade yesterday as well. >> Santiago Espinal on his way to the Cincinnati Reds for right-hander Chris McElvain, who's an eighth round pick. He's a guy, I don't know, like he is a human body. And when you're an eighth round man, and you spent four years at college, maybe you become a major leaguer. But this is more about Santiago Espinal than it is the return they get from the Cincinnati Reds. Espinal, of course, part of the Steve Pierce trade, and turn himself into an All-Star. >> Now, you get an All-Star, they get a World Series MVP. >> Very trade. >> Yeah, he's fallen out of favor recently, and just myself doing the permutations of how this bench looks, especially with Ernie Clemente out of options, and him being a better defender. And at least an equal offensive player, if not better than Santiago Espinal, did feel like he was gonna be the odd man out. But instead of sending him down, which was their right, he does have options, they've decided to send him out of town. It might be a financial thing too, because he's on the hook for more than $2 million. >> $2.75, yeah. >> But maybe they're just doing right by the player, sending him out of town as opposed to down above below. >> Yeah, I think I don't think it's any one hard and fast answer. It's like you're right, Clemente has options, but you burn one of those options, it does affect what you're able to do. >> That's because of all those options. Clemente does not have options. >> Sorry, sorry, you could have held on to him, you could have sent him down, but then you burn that out like you're then closer to or being out of options. With the other part of this as well is, and we talk about this in all sports, the guys know. And it's entirely possible that the guys like Espinal, and he's been a major leaguer, and he's been part of this, but we see he's been the better defender, at least as of late when you've seen him, Clemente's hitting and spraying how much that matters. I think for different players, it matters a lot for somebody like Clemente, you can't tell him his spring doesn't matter a lick or else, well, why is even there? Why don't you just option him right away? Again, you can't, he's out of him, I understand the point, but I look at this and say that there's a little element to doing right by the player. There's a little element of financial, but there's also an element of just taking the guy who can help you and provide versatility at many different positions, and not that Espinal can't do that, but clearly Clemente can as well. >> Espinal, a fan favorite, I think, even with the offensive downturn that he had a season, he first jumped on to my radar, I think most people's radar as well. During that 2020 season, when Blue Jays were before the season started, back when they were locked into Rogers Center, doing the team workouts before the no fan season that was played in Buffalo at Salem Field. He was the guy that, man, I would talk to Dan Schulman, some of the people that were allowed in to see those workouts and like, who's making waves here, who's got a lot of people talking? Santiago Espinal, he does a lot of things right and he did, he played a lot of positions and who can forget, again, the all-star season of 2022, when he took the starting second baseman's job away from Cavan Bijo, it felt like it was maybe gonna be a platoon, but whom more leaning towards Cavan Bijo, and Espinal was just frankly better than him, had some huge hits in the first half of that season, again, did a lot of the right things that this Blue Jays team in recent vintage has not done. But for whatever reason, the defense fell off a little bit, this is a guy that was always gonna make his bones be in a glove man, and I don't know, wasn't that elite guy, I didn't feel either at second base or shortstop and on occasion asked to play third base. But somebody who felt like a good vibes dude. Yeah, there was an element to that, but they went away from that last year. I mean, I'm not gonna say that they have made it a further concerted effort to do that, but you know, they wanna have a more serious ball club, and that's not to mean you can only, like, this isn't a, you can only have one knucklehead situation, you can have several happy guys on a ball club, but I think there is an element to that. I don't think they cast him aside 'cause he's not serious enough, but I think it is one of the many reasons that led to this trade. I do think the financial stuff can't be overstated as well by shipping him out. You effectively can pay for Volklbach or Votto, whatever they're gonna make at the major league level. You do save a little cash on that one as well, but I don't think it's, again, I think that's probably that followed by doing right by the player, I think, are probably the two, you know, chief 1A and B reasons. Yeah, I think- They're moved to come here because this move allows the Blue Jays to carry a backup catcher who's not on the roster right now because Danny Janssen's not gonna start the season healthy. They're gonna need to make another 40-man roster move if they wanna bring either Daniel Volklbach or Joey Votto north with this team. So that's still to come. Okay. A week from today. Season opens. Yeah. Quickly on the catcher thing. Varsho. They, he has done it before. They bumped into this problem. Danny Janssen gets hurt three to four times a year. I wish it wasn't the case, but he does. Do they owe it to themselves to kind of like I talked about this last year at spring? Should they not have been mixing Varsho in on like backfield, let him get work? I understand they need the bad. I understand they love his defense in the outfield, but in a team where roster spots are like every team, it's a crunch. You need to like really finally thread the needle. Should they not be looking at having him at the very least is like, because Santiago Espinal was the emergency catcher for a while with this team. Should they not at least be trying to keep them kind of somewhat engaged in that? That's not even to say like catch him in a big league game once a week or anything. That'd be nuts. But they run into this catcher injury all the time and he's a guy who could at least provide another layer of insurance. It's a great point, because I think in analyzing this trade to the outset, it was like, hey, not that this guy used to be a minor league catcher or came up as a catcher like so did Carlos Delgado. This is a guy who caught 31 games with the Deebax the year before he was acquired by the Blue Jays. And the defensive metrics is at least in regards to him throwing the ball the second base. Pretty good. It was not like a zero defensively behind the plate, but there was obviously an understanding and boy, it didn't work out in year one, but that there is more to get out of the player offensively if you take him away from the grind of squatting behind the plate even 30 times a year. Now I would have thought that what we saw out of the player offensively last year, you'd say, well, okay, how do we maximize the value of the player? If we're not getting the elite level offense that we hope to get and maybe it is turning him into, if not the backup catcher, like to your point, the emergency catcher or somebody gets injured, the catcher for a month, like the backup catcher for a month, but yeah, they obviously decided that's not what they're going to do because they think the wear and tear that he's going to suffer on his body is going to impact him offensively and maybe this amounts back offensively for Don Varfield, but to me, I don't know, what is the best you're going to get of him? I hope it's better than what they got last year, but the player is going to make his bones being a great defensive player. To me, if he has a skill set, don't let it atrophy. I'm with you. No, I'd like to see him behind the plate. I will be thinking about this and I wish it wouldn't happen, but the three to four times a year that Danny Janssen gets hurt. I wish you could just stay healthy. And if that's the case, great, not an issue, but every time channel gets hurt, I'll be thinking about that with first show. All right. When we come back back into the Leafs and we'll also talk about this show. Hey, Otani story with David Sampson of nothing personal with David Sampson next is the fan morning show continues. Ben Ann is Brent Gunning sports at 590 the fan.
