Showdown
Showdown Episode 25 3-22-24
[music] Welcome to Showdown, I'm Mark Casen and today we have a special guest with us and that is Harley Cameron. How are you? How are ya Harley? I'm alright, I'm happy to be here, how are you? I'm doing great. By the way, this is Friday, the 22nd of March and by my reckoning it seems like this is the first day of spring. Ooh. Yeah. And actually it's beautiful outside, it really, it's sort of the first day of spring. It feels like it. It's very nice. So too bad, the world isn't as good shape as the weather that I went through on the way into this studio because let me say, and I think you would agree Harley, it's sort of a mess. Yeah, I do agree. Yeah. And actually to be perfectly transparent today, let's say that this is sort of radical left this Friday. Yeah. Since we both are, I assume, I assume you, I assume you accept that designation. I do. Yeah. I do. I would call myself definitely a leftist. I think a lot of people in leftism like to assign really specific labels to themselves and for me personally, I think that I think a good broad like knowledge of all of kind of the different sects of leftism, if you will, is a much better approach to things than trying to follow one exact diagram that we've seen fail already. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, if you're around long enough, like me, then you've seen all of these labels come and go. Yeah. Here, let's, let's, let's check a couple of things here. Do you know who Phil Oaks was? I don't think I do. Okay. You know, that's another thing. Historical memory. I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about, you know, for the public is very, very short. Phil Oaks was a young folk singer who came up with, with Bob Dylan and Phil Oaks was brilliant in some ways, maybe even more brilliant than Bob Dylan in some ways, but he was incredible. They were friends and then they weren't friends and then they were friends, you know, that kind of thing and they got a couple of songs that they each wrote about each other. I mean, yeah, there was a lot of that going on, but, but unfortunately, Phil Oaks hung himself. Oh. Yeah. At a very young age and I actually saw him at a place in Los Angeles where I lived called The Troubadour and about a week later, he had killed himself and, and then, and the night that I saw him there, he was pretty drunk and couldn't remember his songs. So, you know, probably not surprising. He had some, some real problems, demons in his life. Yeah. Mental health is definitely a growing crisis even now. And I feel like it's been brushed under the rug so much because of stigma and it's unfortunate that, you know, especially back then, there was really no kind of help you could get without being labeled as a crazy person, you know, well, pretty true, pretty true for sure. And the other thing is, and this is, I'm no psychologist, although my PhD is in educational psychology, but way different, way different. Right. And so I'm no psychologist, but I will say that in my lifetime, I've come across many genius people who have had these demons. So in other words, it seems to be attached to very brilliant people often. I, I do tend to see that often. I mean, even just in like the people that I know in my life, the, the people who are, that are like artists and musicians that I know, like, are definitely people who struggle a lot with mental health. And I feel like a lot of the time it's very connected to creativity because it's a way to escape that, that part, you know, or to even just let it out. Yeah. Well, there's something going on there and we both agree with that part. So not that we're right, but it seems like it, you know, that's enough. I think there's probably, I mean, I'm not going to say for sure, but I, I feel like I've seen statistics about the correlations in like creatives and people who pursue creative careers and mental health. So it's pretty likely. Yeah. And that's another thing that's sort of interesting, I guess on the left is that we're interested in things like research, evidence, yeah, statistics, right, you know, things that, that, and you know, we, we've made it here, what, 10 minutes and I haven't said Donald Trump yet, but I'm going to say it now. Things like things that Donald Trump would have no understanding of. I know he claims to have gone to school at Wharton, but I do believe that one of the professors there who had him in a class or maybe a couple of classes or some work that they did together made the point that he was the worst student that this guy had ever seen at Wharton. So yeah, that's not surprising. Right. Yeah. Actually, my mom was just telling me something and I think it's in this documentary series that I can't remember the name of, she was just telling me about that goodness. And someone who like taught Trump to be a politician was under, was like the study, like the, the, uh, he was with McCarthy McCarthy. Yeah, sure. Roy Cohn. Roy Cohn. Yeah. My mom was just telling me this and I was like, that is very interesting that definitely makes some sense to me. Yeah. Yeah. Roy Cohn was a horrible, horrible person, very, very bad. Probably as bad as Trump may be worse than Trump, but the only thing that, that Trump had that Roy Cohn didn't have, it sort of sounds like I'm talking about the Wizard of Laws. But at any rate, the, the one thing that, that Roy Cohn had, or that Donald Trump had that Roy Cohn didn't have is Trump had television. You know, you sit on, you sit on television for 10 years and play a rich, brilliant business person. Yeah. It's sort of like, and I've been saying this lately, I always make this comment, it's sort of like Robert Young playing Marcus Welby MD and somebody thinking that Robert Young, when he was still alive, could take your appendix out. Right. Can't do it. This is, it's called acting. Right. But in any event, people believe in Donald now after 10 years of, of that lunacy. Yeah. And, and you know, I'm going to start off, here's a good one for today. There's, there's so many good ones. Trump says, don't worry, I've got my $500 million, everything's fine. Now the only problem with that is at the same time that he's proclaiming that he's got the money, his lawyers are talking to the judge and saying, we haven't got any money. Yeah. So the judge is saying, okay guys, which one of you is telling the truth? What, what's up here? And, and, and this of course is a, a usual Donald Trump play. Now, one of the possible things is is that he's got the money and his attorneys don't know it yet. That's possible. Another possibility is, is that he doesn't have any money, but that on Monday, he's going to claim insanity, have them bring in a, a straight jacket and he'll hope that he doesn't have to put up any money if he's in a hospital bed. So you know, you never know with him. Yeah. It could be anything. Yeah. That's very true. He likes to put on a show to say, believe, unfortunately the country can't afford another four years of this show. I agree. Yeah. Can't, can't, can't happen, but in any event, yeah, the judge is pretty unhappy over the fact that, that different information is being spread because he has to decide what to do, which I don't think there's much doubt. He knows what he wants to do. He wants to hold Donald accountable here and at the same time, you know, if Donald came in in a straight jacket, claiming that he was in a hospital bed or on his way to a hospital bed, you know, the judge would probably be hesitant to throw everything at him right away. So that, you know, there's no telling. Yeah. You know, the game that, that, that Donald's going to attempt to play in order to prevent Leticia James, a very brilliant attorney general who is ready on Monday to start taking all his property. Yeah. Yeah. Gee, so sorry. So sorry for him to lose all of his property. I mean, especially after seeing the, the files that were leaked from Epstein Island, I'm, I'm just going to be laughing the whole way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, I want to see if he's laughing, you know, another thing I've considered is that as part of an end to this show of his, that he may, he may be thinking about diving off of Trump Tower head first for, for a great climax. I mean, that would be a heck of a way to end the show. Unfortunately, you know, when, like they say, on the way down, it's no problem. It's the landing that creates a problem. All right. Anyway. So that's, that's one thing that, that Donald's up to today. He's all over truth, social, I love that truth, social. I mean, in a bit of truth to anything that that man has to say, and, and I don't know about the social part, I know that there's an interesting, financial development as part of truth, social, and that has to do with this special kind of, of company that has acquired truth, social as preliminary to a public offering. And when they do this public offering, presumably as of today's price, Donald would be able to collect about $3 billion, which if he did, it would be more money than he's ever had in his entire life, I assure you, by far, by far, because I really think he's probably got nothing right now, except for, you know, maybe he borrowed some money off of his master card and stuff that in his pocket, but, but other than that, I wouldn't count on him having anything. But on the other hand, see, truth, social, this, this is a real deal that this is a public offering that first of all, he couldn't sell for a number of months. So he couldn't even realize the money from it. That's the first thing. The second thing is, in anticipation of this deal going through, which it was approved today, and when it was approved, the price of this thing sort of rocketed upward briefly, which would get him the $3 billion, but then it plunged afterwards. So it's not like Donald's really in such great shape as he thinks. But in any case, this is a deal that's hanging out there. And I'm sure a lot of people in the public are wondering what it is and maybe some people on his side think, oh, sure, Donald's rich, but he's going to still have to be able to sell this thing. And right now, it's locked up. He couldn't even sell it, even if they actually went public today, he wouldn't have access to the funds. Right, and a lot of people who were interviewed last night talking about who might come up with money for Donald for his $450 million or $500 million, whatever it is, that whoever it is, might be very hesitant because Donald has a long history of not paying back. Yeah, did you see the GoFundMe? Yeah. Oh, listen, he's begging from every direction. I just think it's hilarious, though, that we're supposed to believe, you know, from his mouth that he has money, but yet go fund me. Right. Yeah. That's quite an interesting step. Right. Because if we all remember back when he got elected, he said, you know, I'm talking 2016. He said, hey, don't worry about me, because I can fund everything myself because I'm so rich. I'll never have to ask anybody for any money. Yeah. I think he forgot that one. Mm hmm. Yeah. I think he was too busy reading Hitler's speeches when he was going to sleep at night, like his wife says, and forgot that he's not supposed to be asking anybody for money. But I get emails night and day from them, begging for money, begging, begging, I'm desperate, you know, but yeah, anyway, but, and that's another interesting point. Biden has $77 million in the bank. And here Donald's got like 30 million. Mm hmm. Yeah. So good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, that's, we're not going to resolve all that today, but we are in about eight months, and that's, that's going to be very interesting. I teach students who, who I really am excited for their opportunity when they sit down next year with the class and are able to look at the numbers, tear them apart, look at state by state, check the whole thing out. You know, I sort of believe, and there are a few people saying this now, but I've been saying, I, I think it's going to end up a landslide in favor of, of Joe Biden. I, I really do. I understand it's neck and neck right now, but there are so many examples of this neck and neck business right up to maybe a month or two before the election. And then things start to break one way or the other. And in this case, I mean, I think there's a very good chance that they're going to break sharply away from this guy. I do think there is a pretty good chance of, of Joe Biden winning when it's brought down to just those two. But I do think there is a really large growing leftist community who is uncomfortable with Joe Biden because of the support of Israel continuing on so heavily. Yeah. Well, that's an interesting thing, and I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to anyway, since you're on that side. And here's my question for you. How much support do you think Biden has lost as a result of this, this business going on in, in Gaza? I will say it's, it's on like just from my communities online that I'm around and definitely in our area, a lot of support has waned away from him because of wanting to support the Palestinian people and what they're going through right now, which what you call what it is, it's a genocide. And they're calling him genocide Joe. And that's become a very popular name for him online on X, on Facebook, memes, all of this. So I do think that there is quite a large community forming of people that are looking to vote more for a third party. So first of all, who would they vote for? What do you think? Certainly not RFK, right? Not I honestly, I'm not even sure I've heard everything all over the place with people. It's been kind of crazy. I've heard some people say something about Missouri offering like an undecided vote or something. And I don't know if that is accurate, but I saw it somewhere and I'm like, what? I mean, you can write in your favorite dog. So that's, that's right. It could be anything you like. But look, is it possible, because it seems to me, the people on the left are awfully smart, is it possible that they don't understand what would happen if Donald Trump walked into the presidency as a result of their, their, their protest vote? Right. I do think that that is very plausible and something kind of is what happened back when Trump won the first time we split the vote, you know, people wanted to vote for Bernie and whoever. But I do think that people understand that. I do. I think that a lot of people feel as though they're, unfortunately, at this point, like, you know, everyone always goes back to that lesser of two evils argument. And I think a lot of people feel like there isn't a lesser at this point whenever someone is killing thousands, millions of people just for living somewhere or someone who's saying, that's okay. Let's keep doing that. I think that way that people feel right now is that you're voting between, hey, we want to kill you because you're queer or brown or whatever, or we're going to genocide an entire nation. And I think that a lot of people don't really feel like there's a better of that. You know, I don't think anyone, I think they're starting to feel as though there's just not even really a lesser evil to vote for, you know. Yeah. Online, my cousin, Michael, who's in Arizona, is writing that a vote for a third party is a vote for Trump. And I think for the most part, you know, that would be true. The other thing is, are you hearing or do you think anybody on the left is hearing the young left? Because that's where a lot of this is coming from. Right. Do you think they're hearing the fact that, you know, Joe Biden is saying to Israel, stop it. Don't do this anymore. We need to cease fire. He hasn't actually called for a cease fire, though. Well, he actually did. When? Yesterday, today. Oh, yeah. And look, you know, his people, his people are all calling for a cease fire and, you know, like, Blinken, Blinken, you know, Tony Blinken, you know, and who is also Jewish, not that it matters. I'm Jewish, you know, but, but, but he's calling for a cease fire. And obviously, he got that. I mean, the president told him, yeah, go do this. Well, yeah. And the president also may be calling for a cease fire while still giving them money to continue to fire. Well, he is. Oh, that's for sure. Oh, there's no doubt about that. They're not going to take the money away from Israel. Let's not forget the people in Israel were genocided themselves for 12 years by a guy that Donald Trump has now told us he admires a guy named Adolf Hitler. So yeah, but, but, you know, on, in this whole argument, I come down in a little bit of a, maybe an interesting way. I've always said, unless there's a two-state solution, there's no solution at all. There has to be equal decency in Gaza, in Palestine, as there is in Israel. And if you have to take the Chinese and American armies and put them on the border and line them up, China, America, China, America, China, America, all the way across that border and tell both sides, no more, no more rockets, no more bullets, no more nothing. If you're going to, I don't, you know, that's really figurative. I don't, I don't know who would be standing on the border, but somebody would have somebody, you know, representing both sides, would have to be there until each of them, Palestine and Israel, we're done with this. The world is through with it. We're going to take care of Palestine. We're going to give them billions like we gave Israel and we're going to rebuild it. And anybody that wants to mess with Israel, we're not, we're not dealing with it. You're going away. We're not, this is not going to happen. And anybody in Israel that wants to deal with the other side, because you're angry over your relatives or something else, no, you can't do it either. Everybody has to stop. It's all terrible what's happened, but it's got to stop because all of this will go on forever. And I think maybe a point that hasn't been heard very well from the side of extreme Palestinian support is that they do want a one state solution, but not for like Israelis to just disappear. They want to live in peace like they did before. They just want everyone to live in one place together, but not Hamas, but not Hamas, and not and not Iran. Yeah. So I mean, yeah, Hamas in Iran want to exterminate Israel and clearly that's a line that won't be acceptable. And I would think that the people on the left would probably if that were happening, which it wouldn't, because Israel has nuclear weapons and Israel is very powerful and Israel could do a lot more damage than what it's doing right now if it wanted to. Clearly it doesn't want to or it would be doing it, because Netanyahu is a nutcase. He's a dangerous person and he is trying to keep himself out of jail, sort of like Donald Trump. And so he's ginning up this fight. And in fact, this is all public information that there was money that was being given to Hamas through Qatar and Qatar asked Netanyahu if they should continue to give that money to Hamas. And Netanyahu said, yes. So, you know, that's something that has to be looked at later on. Yeah, I mean, it should be looked at that Hamas was made by Israel originally. Yeah, I don't know how that. Yeah, I'm not sure. Yeah, that one I don't think is public information. That one, I think might be, you know, a little on the edge. But you know, Hamas is really from Iran, along with Hezbollah, you know, they, they would like to get rid of Israel. But, but here's the thing, whatever is good for Israel, this same treatment should be for the Palestinians. So, you know, we give Israel billions of dollars every year. So fine. We should give the Palestinians billions of dollars every year. You know, Israel's got what they've got. No one's going to take that away. I mean, that part's done. It's just like, you know, Mexico isn't getting Texas. Yeah, that that that that ship is sailed. But, but on the other hand, the Palestinians could have a very advanced and exciting life, just like Israel's advanced and exciting life. They could both have it and leave each other alone. And I can tell you right now that there are a lot of people in the Middle East who don't want that because they want all of this bloodshed and anger and disruption. And they're mostly coming from Iran because as much as the Middle East wanted to destroy Israel 50 years ago, it's not like that anymore. You know, you've got Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates and Jordan and Egypt and some of these others that really would like to support Israel. I mean, these were Israel's greatest enemies, but now they want to make a deal. They want to end this thing. But, but the other thing is, which is pretty interesting, they don't want the Palestinians. You know, Egypt said, you know, if you allow any Palestinians into Egypt, we're going to go back to war against Israel. We don't want them here. See, see, it's a complicated, difficult situation where both sides have things going on that are not okay, because the only solution can be, and you tell me if you think this is right. Everybody is treated fairly, respectfully, and given an opportunity for a great life. Oh, yeah, 100%. Yeah. I've got a lot of the infighting that I do see going on surrounding this topic does come down to kind of semantics of one state, two state, blah, blah, blah, blah, just let everyone live. I think that is the best answer. You know, just stop killing people, give some people some food. And I think that, you know, whatever can be moved forward from there, that makes everyone happy, it would be great. But you have to do a stop killing people and give people that are dying food. I think that's like the, well, that's a, that's a good start. Yeah, that's a good start. But, but the problem is, and I would say it this way, I'd love to put it this way, because it's a really interesting problem in foreign policy. The United States did one of the smartest and most effective things that they've ever done in the history of our country when they gave billions of dollars to the people who hiled Hitler. I mean, we gave the Germans everything. We gave them all the money. We gave them all the support. We gave them all the protection. We gave them everything. We turn Germany and Japan, for that matter, both into our good friends because instead of punishing them, the way we did after World War One, which didn't work, we gave them everything, billions of dollars. Those people were a hiling Hitler and we turned everything over to them. That was pretty smart, I guess. Yeah, I guess I don't really know enough about this topic to give much of an opinion. Can you elaborate? Yeah, the Marshall Plan. Yeah, after the war, we created the Marshall Plan, which the whole thing was we're going to rebuild Germany from ground up. We're going to give them everything. We're going to help them to stabilize themselves and to become a fair and open society. And it worked. Yeah, I remember the first time hearing that you had any swastikas in Germany is illegal, the creation of it, the flying of the flag, anything like that. And I was like, well, I guess that is one way to try to change your ways. But yeah, but that doesn't actually work. Now that doesn't work. No, in fact, I was in Germany right before COVID, one month before COVID hit, I was in Germany. And I can tell you, they're swastikas in Germany. Goodness. Yeah. That's crazy to hear. Yeah, it really is. But it's not normal. I mean, it's it's graffiti on bridges. Yeah. Yeah. St. Louis has had a much a huge uptick in Nazi related graffiti lately. I actually was working with a group for a little while trying to kind of get some info on who these people are. And it it sounds me because majority of these people are high school boys. Sure. And they're they're terrifying people. They're disgustingly terrifying people. No, I think you're absolutely right. And and I think that kind of person exists, unfortunately, all over the world. Yeah. And and you know, there's not much we can do to stop them. And in fact, that's one of the things I think the Germany has done wrong for sure, which is trying to stop people from saying and believing things. You can't ban mine comp. Right. You know, you can't do it. Now, it's true that Donald Trump was reading mine comp in bed, according to his wife, for years. And and now he's crazy. Yeah, it's it certainly didn't do them any good. By the way, the phone number here, if you want to call in and talk, is 314-471-1968. So I just turned those lines on. So that's that's available. And let me do a little business here real quick, Harley, and then we'll we'll move on with our discussion. So first of all, I don't know about you, but around 430 every evening, I start to get pretty hungry because I'm thinking about a great restaurant, Wenties, and that is right here in Chesterfield Valley. And it is a really great place to eat. They've got baby back ribs. They've got onion rings, meat, patty paddy melts, hamburgers, smoked meat, pizza. They've got everything. It's a great restaurant. And I can tell you that the the owner Ben is there all the time. And he's just waiting for people to come in and say hi. And and he's extremely friendly, just a great guy. And it's one of the things we talk about here all the time. And that is these businesses that have the owners on site. They are often very welcoming places that are a good place to do business. And Wenties is one of those. And it's right over on 18,000 Chesterfield Airport Road here in the valley. And we hope you get a chance to go over and check out Wenties. This is a great weekend coming up to go there. It's going to be, I know 71 degrees tomorrow and it's just going to be nice. So try Wenties, great food. And how about jewelry? Now, personally, I don't have a lot of jewelry. Harley, I don't know about you. I have a couple of holes in my face. Okay. Okay. Well, and let me tell you, jewels on Hampton, which is owned by Al and his son, AJ, and they're there all the time. And I was over there today. They're they're great jewelers. And they buy and sell jewelry and coins. And they create their own jewelry designs. And they will also make jewelry for people that come in and say, look, I'd like it this way, you know, whatever, they're they're really good. And that's jewels on Hampton, 4506 Hampton, Al, his son, AJ, they're all there. And it's just what it says, lots of great jewelry. Now, finally, you know, we've talked for a week here and, and you know, you've never seen me. I've never seen you, Harley, but but one thing that you didn't know, but you know now, is that when I do the show, I got a nice suit tie, you know, and, and that's because I go to a place in St. Louis called the St. Louis suit company. And the St. Louis suit company is on the corner of Forsython Central in Clayton. They have been there for 29 years. And I can tell you that as a young radical, many years ago, what I did, Harley is I and my friends used to go to school and have these demonstrations. And and whenever we had our demonstrations, we dressed up. And we thought as teenagers that being dressed up would maybe help to get us out of trouble when everybody came after us. And they did. And we didn't get in that much trouble, but at any rate, we certainly stirred some up. And, you know, it was a long time ago, but the suit thing has stuck. And I definitely like a suit and a tie and you like for a good trouble when you look good. That's the theory. That's the theory. It's sort of disarms people. You know, they, they think, well, there's a old ball guy with a suit and a tie. He's probably a judge down in the, the Clayton courthouse. But, you know, unfortunately, what they don't know for them is that, you know, I might want to stand out in the front of the Clayton courthouse. Yeah, that's, that's another story. But anyway, St. Louis suit company is the place to go. And for people that are looking to get married or going to a wedding, they also are really good with providing the clothes that people wear at weddings. So that's St. Louis suit company, the corner of Forsyth and, and, and Clayton, I'm sorry, central in Clayton. And let me say also, again, family owned business. Jay is, is the dad and his son Nick there and, and ble, and the rest of the family too, they're all there. And, and they really are good. And they, they help you to fit into your clothes. And in my case, you know, I'm, I'm also colorblind. So they help me with the colors. You know, so that's, so that's a really good thing. And finally, I don't know if you know much about ties, but this tie I've got here, this is a silk tie, really nice. And it costs $5. Oh, wow. At the St. Louis suit company, great price. Now, you know, the Donald Trump used to sell ties. Did you know that? No. Yeah, the, the Trump ties, you know, he, he would sell nice ones just like this. Only thing is he charged people $50 instead of five. Of course. And the other thing is, when you put the tie on, you didn't see this little special thing in the tie, it would choke you. This is all a joke, Carly. But, but, but, but honestly, $5 for these ties at the St. Louis suit company are bargain. They're great. Yeah. Yeah. I've got an imagination here, Harley. I say all kinds of things. Yeah. Okay. So again, the phone number, if you want to call in 314-471-1968. And I know, actually, that we've got a little phone call demand here, which is why I remembered and turned this thing on. So we'll see if we, if we get that. Okay. Um, you know, there's a lot of other things going on today. Um, you know, I happen to see Henry Lewis Gates on TV today. Do you know who he is? I actually do not. Okay. He is a very famous professor at, uh, at Harvard, uh, black professor, very famous. And actually the, he's famous for lots of things. But there's a story about him that's really an interesting one. And that is during the Obama presidency, uh, Gates was trying to get into his house. And he left his keys somewhere and he was trying to open a window. And his neighbors called the police and said, there's a black man busting into a house. So they came to arrest them. And when he said, look, I'm Henry Lewis Gates is my house. Yeah. Okay. He said, they said, sorry, pal, you going to jail. And, and of course, in the end, they were a little embarrassed. I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, that's a good Henry Lewis Gates story. There's another guy in St. Louis who had a similar kind of a story. Uh, do you know the name Gerald early? It sounds familiar. Yeah. So, so Gerald is a, a phenomenal professor over at Washington University for many years. He was the head of black studies. He's not now, but, but he was for a long time and he's still there. And he was with his family maybe 20 years ago and, and they were standing out in front of a jewelry store in Plaza front neck. And actually his family then went inside and, and Gerald stood outside waiting for his family. And of course, uh, the police came and, and got him because they figured a black man standing in front of a jewelry store has to mean that a robbery is, is going to follow. Right. Yeah. So anyway, too common, you know, things with really top, you know, people here, but, but I had, I'm sorry. No, go ahead. Who actually thought that they wanted to be a police officer. They, um, they thought there were the type that thought that they could go in and change things, but it was proven to them very quickly before they even they were on like, I guess they do like some sort of trial before you join a force or something. They were on that period, like probationary period and watched a, uh, higher up, um, racially like profile a middle school student for having their hood up. Okay. Whenever they tried to say something about that, like, Hey, like, that's kind of weird. Why'd you do that? Um, my friend was basically told, well, you can quit or you can be fired. Okay. Yeah. Which did he do? Hey, he walked away. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Well, in any case, in, in, in the, in the Henry Lewis Gates situation, he's got a new book out today. Okay. And, and, and it's called the black box. And, and the black box is a, a very interesting book. I listened to him for a good long time this morning on the air where he was talking about, this is a book on, uh, all the different ways that he has come in contact with over the years of being black. And, and he wanted to emphasize the idea that, you know, if there are 47 million black people in America, that there are 47 million different ways of being black. And, and you know, it, it was really good. It was what you would expect from a brilliant Harvard professor who is very well recognized and regarded over many years. And it's, it's probably worth a read. So that's, that's another neat thing from, uh, 2024. And that is, you know, in, in the old days, when I heard of a book, I had to run to the bookstore and see how much it cost and all that. Well, anyway, now you go to your, uh, Kindle app. Yeah, you just download it. I use Audible. Yeah. So, you know, it's, it's nice to have access that way. So you tell me though, um, being the young person that you are, um, how do you feel about reading and, and about, and how, and how people feel about reading today? Because my information from teaching as well as from talking to other professors and people is that, um, reading is not, it's not what it used to be when it comes to do agree. Yeah. I think there's been, so personally, I'm an avid reader. I used to read a book a day every single day for many years. Um, I do a lot more of Audible now, because it's easy to just have it in my ear while I'm going, you know, since I'm always working. Thank you capitalism. But, um, I think a lot of people, first of all, we're all struggling with mental health very heavily. And with that comes a lot, a lot of people have the like ADHD and things that really affect your attention. And I think that that has driven a lot of people away from reading. I do think that things like Audible can be really helpful for people that are struggling with that. And I have actually suggested it to some of my friends and they've actually enjoyed it. Um, whenever they do have a struggle with just the eyes on the page. Um, and also for like people with dyslexia and things of that nature. Um, with, and then I do also feel as well that there's just a large portion of the youth coming up even younger than me, especially, um, that is very just so tied to their phones that, um, they would rather read like, they'd rather watch a TikTok about it. You know, sure. Well, that's what my students tell me that. Yeah, I asked them about TikTok. They say, Oh, we get our news from TikTok. Yeah. And like in some ways, I do understand why because it is, um, you know, if you're looking for credible sources, it can be a very good way of getting news that is, uh, like from a very direct source, you know, uh, but on the other hand, it's also very hard to verify anything from TikTok. That's what I was going to say. It sort of scares me to hear that because, uh, as far as credible evidence, somehow TikTok does not strike me as the place to go. But it's not always, but I will say that there are some channels, like people's particular channels that they have put together that are very well researched, very informative. They will give you links. They will cite their sources. They, they're basically investigative journalists that are making a career for themselves via TikTok and the, like, blogging sites and things like that. I don't know if you've heard of Erin Reed. Um, she's not necessarily as active on TikTok. She does have her own blog that you can pay for a higher subscription or use the free subscription. Um, but she's phenomenal. Um, and she's just a private journalist that is very well versed and always cite sources, mostly with a focus on queer and trans news, but just, you know, the I originally heard of her from TikTok. Yeah. And there's no question that, that there are really smart people out here who have access now to the internet in a way that was never even imagined. And, and, and it now gives you the opportunity to put things on the air, which, or even just in writing like a blog, things that, that big companies would have been in charge of and would have blocked. Yeah. Sure. And I think that's a lot of the reason why a lot of people do like to seek out those independent sources. Um, I think one of the problems is that a lot of young people these days lack the, the thought to go and verify what they hear from these individual TikTokers. Um, because obviously you can establish one person who you know is always reliable, like Aaron Reed, but then, you know, you don't know who else pops up in that algorithm. And if you're not checking those sources, if they're not citing their sources, you shouldn't just believe everything you hear on TikTok. But to get back to books, I will say people of more along my age, uh, like the young adults kind of 20s, early 30s, I think that reading is coming up in us more because we were a generation that learned to love books when we were young. But then I think a lot of us felt like when we became adults, we kind of like, were, didn't have the time anymore, we're working now. And I think a lot of us are coming back to it. Um, and in a way that I think has been really positive for a lot of people's mental health. Um, and so I, I, I've been really like excited to see my friends reading again if that doesn't make me stop. Sure. No, that, that's great. No, that, that really is. And I know that, you know, I would love to, to even have the time to, for example, read a novel. Yeah. I haven't read a novel in an awfully long time. I'm too busy reading, you know, political science books and, and newspapers and magazines and, you know, which is better than people not reading. I mean, you know, so, I mean, that, that, that's a source for information, especially university journals. That's another great source. Uh, you know, like for example, on our website, we've got a, a, a university researched article, uh, that, you know, peer reviewed. So it's in a journal that, that talks about crime among immigrants. And this article, not just, it doesn't just say it, but it provides evidence for 20 years of, of investigation that shows that immigrant crimes are at a much lower level than those of us who were, you know, born and live here in the United States. So exactly the opposite of what we're being fed of what we're being fed. And it's, this is no, this is, it's propaganda. Yeah. No, absolutely. And, and, and another point, and this is so easy. And I've got friends in the media who swear by the opposite. Okay. But, you know, if, if you look at the evidence on crime in the United States generally, crime has been dropping for 50 years. Yeah. Just keeps dropping. And it's down again this year. And, and we're basically at, depending on who you're listening to, we're either in a 34 year lower to 50 year low, but we're low. Crime is down. Now, one of the reasons crime is down is because our society is aging. Old people commit less crimes. They got aches and pains and they're not stealing from stores and running. Right. Because if they do, they're going to fall down and end up with a broken hip. Not good. So, you know, but, but seriously, the, the aging thing is a factor. And, and, and it's part of the reason why things are, are headed in that direction, our country. Now, the other side of that is that there was a, a, a, a Gallup poll like within the last month in which 77% of the people said the crime is surging in the United States. I would like to know where the poll took place and who all participated, because I sure that that is really going to be a factor of why that is the thought process. Yeah. Because it, I feel like, especially people on the right believe that their country's being taken over by immigrants and they think that anyone who has some melanin in them is probably trying to commit crime. Sure. You know, I feel like they probably feel like, oh, I saw a brown person, that means there's crime here. I think that's a lot of people's like state of mind. And I think, I think it's sad, but I think it's true. And then I also feel as though, um, I had something, forgot how to elaborate on it. It's all right. Don't worry. But, but anyway, there, there certainly is, and you, you described it very aptly, that there are all these people who think our country's being taken away by immigrants. And of course, it's the opposite. And our entire country was built by immigrants. Well, we're all immigrants if we're not Native Americans. Exactly. Yeah. So, yeah, there's no getting around that one. Exactly. So why is it that, why is it that it was okay for us to come? But like, we just want to shut the gates that everyone else see. I am big in the idea of, I understand that it's not plausible, but I think that owning land in general is kind of just an insane idea because it's earth. You know, we were all put here. We didn't ask to be here. It's earth. And we're supposed to be here. Obviously, everyone needs to have their little corner and whatnot. But like, trying to say, well, this is mine and you can't be here about something as large as a continent or a country is absolutely abhorrent, abhorrent to me. I just think it sounds terrible. Well, I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, let me say that there was something in the 1850s called the Homestead Act. And we gave everybody land who would come and work on it. And it caused the growth of a middle class in the United States that has put this country above everybody else for a very long time. So there is a value to this, but I understand what you're saying. And certainly you want to have fairness and you want to find ways to help people and find ways to get them into the system so that they can benefit from what's going on to. And one of the ways, and we've tried this and it works beautifully, pay for everybody's college education. And health care, of course. I mean, you know, women, that's another issue. In fact, are very important when I know it's important to you, not just because you're a woman, but I mean, we had this conversation off the air. And let me say that, yeah, the free education and giving away the land in the 1850s changed the whole way this country lives, operates. Well, anyway, we're at the end of the show. And I do want to thank you for coming here, Harley. I hope you enjoyed it. I did. Okay, well, we'll do this again. We'll do it again for sure. Just a just a reminder. Wenties, Saint Louis suit company, and Jules on Hampton. So keep all of those in mind. And I will be out of here for the weekend like everybody should be. Hopefully everybody get a little relaxation and, you know, watch everything that Donald's doing so we can see if on Monday, Leticia James takes everything he's got, which we can only hope that that's what happens. I hope anyway. Okay, have a good day. Thanks for having me. You too. This is showdown. I'm Mark casein. Good night.