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That's 3% on your favorite products at Apple, 2% on all other Apple Card with Apple Pay purchases and 1% on anything you buy with your titanium Apple Card or virtual card number. Visit apple.co/cardcalculator to see how much you can earn. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City branch subject to credit approval, terms apply. - Hey, it's Kaylee Cuoco for Priceline. Ready to go to your happy place for a happy price? Well, why didn't you say so? Just download the Priceline app right now and save up to 60% on hotels. So whether it's Cousin Kevin's Kazoo concert in Kansas City, go Kevin or Becky's Bachelorette Bash in Bermuda. You never have to miss a trip ever again. So download the Priceline app today. Your savings are waiting. ♪ Go to your happy place for a happy price ♪ ♪ Got your happy price, Priceline ♪ (upbeat music) - Hello everybody and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. - Yeah, cho cho cho. - Aw, yay and tea, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogello, I'm here with my co-host. - I'm Jimmy Westman. - Thank you folks so much for joining us today on a really, really wild weird show we have for you today. - Right. - We're gonna dive into a whole other world today. It's really strange. Can't wait to present this, it's gonna be amazing. Before we get to that quickly, shut up and give me murder.com. Tickets for live shows, Sacramento, April 5th, San Francisco, April 6th. You are up first, get your tickets, still some tickets remaining. A lot of these shows are selling out very quickly. So get in there. - That's crazy. - One show in case you can't make it to a regular live show or you want more live show anywhere in the world you are, 420, April the 20th virtual live show from us to your living room, just like a regular live show, but you're at home with your own booze and your own weed and all that. It's gonna be a lot of fun, it's gonna be so much fun. We can't wait and it'll be available for two weeks after that too so you can watch it as many times as you want. If you can't make it to it that night, you can get to it later on in the two weeks, whatever you wanna do there. Shut up and give me murder.com though, is the spot for all of that. Patreon.com/crime in sports is where you get all your bonus material. - Oh yeah. - Anybody $5 a month or above, a cup of coffee, man. What are we talking about, a mere cup of coffee? Instead of that, you get hundreds of back episodes that have never been available anywhere but Patreon and new ones every other week, one crime in sports, one small town murder and it's all yours. So this week, which we're gonna talk about, crime in sports, you really don't have to like sports to be interested in this, in ring box or debts. - Fantastic. - People just beatin' the death in front of a crowd full of cheering people. So that's, you don't have to have any sports knowledge for that and then for small town murder, we're gonna talk about the Mel Lyman cult, which was a cult from the '60s and lasted for a long time. He was called the East Coast Charles Manson Mel Lyman. So you can imagine that's an interesting one. We'll get into all that, some good hippie stuff. Good stuff, oh what a sweetheart. We'll get into everything there, patreon.com/crimeandsports. That said, I think it's time everybody. - Oh boy, let's go. - Let's all sit back, clear the ones. I don't care what you're doin' out there. What are you doin'? Slice and deli meat in a subway. Take a handful of turkey and throw it right in that person's face and then you take a deep breath and arms to the sky and you shout, ♪ Shut up and give me murder ♪ - Let's do this, let's go on a trip, everybody. - Feels good, feels strong this week, I love it. Let's go on a trip, let's do this. We're goin' to Colorado here, yeah. - Oh yeah, Colorado, that's one of Jimmy's favorite places. He loves Colorado, it's beautiful there. It's hard not to like Colorado. This is Estes Park, Colorado. - Estes Park. - Estes Park. - Estes Park, Estes. - I think I said Estes like testes, yeah. Testes Park, Colorado, I wanted to say Estes Park and I said testes Park. - Yeah, I've heard it and I said testes anyway. So Estes Park, Colorado, north central Colorado. Pretty close to Wyoming, actually. - It is, yeah. - You can get up there pretty quick. It's about an hour and a half from Denver, which is about the same distance that the airport is from Denver. If you're coming in or out of Denver, it's very convenient. - Crazy. - It's very nice of you to put the airport in Nebraska for us to get that out. - Yeah, it's very nice that the Uber ride costs the same as the plane ride. It can't take almost as long. It's really great. Oh, now I have the second leg of my journey. Fucking hard. - I hope you don't have a layover somewhere, folks. - Oh, you're screwed. It's about four hours to Walsenberg, which is our last Colorado episode, episode 423. The killer has something in his pants. Was the name of that one. - My God, that's so far from here. - It's way down there. It's all the way southern Colorado. Population here, 5942. So not a lot of people, under 6,000. And the median household income and home price are way out of whack, quickly we'll go over. Median household hold income here, $56,166. Which is less than the national average. Median home price more than twice the national average are about twice. - Yes, strap in. - $634,200. Brutal. - Colorado. - Brutal. Calm down, stop it. There's a lot of you to be that expensive. There's a lot of Colorado is what I'm getting at. You go from the-- - He's out of the state. There is nothing. - Yeah, you go from the airport to Denver. You go, seems like a lot of room out here. I don't know why everybody-- - Yeah, why don't-- - I'm expensive in there. - Putting up 15-foot horses out here for Christ's sake. - Giant blue ones, that killed a man. It literally crushed a man to death. I was told we were told that by a foreign Uber driver. - Yeah, that killed somebody. - He thought it was cursed. That guy, which was hilarious. So the land here was still being homesteaded as late as 1914. They were still giving it away and whoever showed up, you could just claim it. So that's way late for that shit too. So yeah, not bad. And they had a lot of floods here. That's the main issue, quick. We'll go over. 1982, they suffered severe damage in July from a flooding caused by the failure of the lawn lake dam after they said, quote, locally, and the report said, "After years of disrepair and neglect." So it broke. - That's Colorado. - My God, the downtown area was extensively renovated after the flood. That's how much it fucked everything up. And a river walk was added between Main Street and Elkhorn Avenue. So there we go. Then there was also a flood of 2013 as well. - Oh, here we go. - Yeah, both US Highway 36 and US Highway 34, the major routes into town were severely damaged. So it was like you were in the shining at that point. 'Cause that's where the hotel, that hotel is here too. - Right. - Hundreds of residents were also isolated here by the destruction of sections of Fish Creek Road and all nine crossings across the Fish Creek. So the people were just trapped. - Wow. - Couldn't get out of their houses, couldn't get anything into their houses. - Just stuck to flood water. - Yep, oh, and then if that wasn't bad enough, damaged sewer lines dumped raw sewage down the creek and into the big Thompson River as well. - I remember that. - It's pretty close. - Yeah, yeah, that's disgusting. - No, fix your dams, everybody. Reviews of this town, let's find out a little bit about it. Four stars, here's one. Estes Park is the quintessential small mountain town. - Right. - Some locals might refer to it as a hamlet. The town is small enough to get around on foot or bike. People generally know each other and it's often that one has to stop and wait in the street for an elk herd to cross. - Yeah. - Let's charming, like elks, I like elk. That's cool. - This is, though, those things only-- - Oh, you gotta watch them from a distance, yeah. There Estes Park is a tourist destination town and located at the foot of the Rocky Mountain National Park. Restaurants tend to be casual and retail is sparse. There's no denying the scenery is amazing as the town is located in a mountain valley. - Right. - Okay, here is three stars. Current resident who rents and works year round. The town has a lot of beauty, but I can't pay the exorbitant rent with sunshine and rainbows. It's a little expensive. Tourism growth is prioritized without supporting the workers and families that keep this town running. Where is the workforce housing? Where is any all caps year round affordable rental? I need something. The homeowners here will rent to you in the winter and kick you out or ask for $4,000 a month in the summer. - Right. - Holy shit, that is. - 'Cause the summertime here is fucking magical. It is incredible. One, then there's an excerpt from a very long, one-star review. I'm gonna give you one sentence out of it that I find hilarious. Quote, "It would be easier to go hiking in Fallujah." - What it? - What it? Through the desert? That's not really easier. - I don't think they're any IUDs, is that what they are? IEDs. - IEDs, yeah. Improvised, explosive diseases, so. Things to do here, number one, the Stanley Hotel is here. You know the Stanley Hotel because even if you've never seen the shining, you've seen a meme, you've seen a picture, you know the hotel from the shining. It's that big, scary, crazy, old ski resort building that Jack Nicholson tried to kill his whole family in. So that's what's going on here. That's what's there, and you can look that up. There's tons of weird folklore and strange goings on and hauntings and everything else. - You know what it is? It's just people go stir crazy in a little mountain town. That's what happens. - And it's creepy in desolate and it's dark early in the winter and it's cold and the wind blows and people lose their fucking minds. - Being in a valley, the sun has to get up, up, up to get over the mountain. And then when it goes down, that mountain's there. So it goes down earlier too. You've only got a low window of sunshine. Enjoy it. - A little glimmer of it. And then there's also frozen dead guy days. - What the fuck is that? - If you listen to this as soon as it comes out on the early release, it's this weekend. It's this weekend, yes, it's right now. - Grandpa, we went over this in a small town festival Patreon episode. - That's what it sounds familiar with. - Grandpa Brito was over 120 years old. For years, he was a resident of a tough shed in the hills above Nederland, Colorado, just 40 miles south of Estes Park, where he remained very, very, very cold. These days, Grandpa is still frozen in a state of suspended animation awaiting the big thaw, the one that will bring him back to life. - Okay, so they have a huge festival here. They have a polar plunge, or they say, dress up in your craziest costume and take a frigid plunge into a frozen pond. - God Jesus. - There's also the coffin races, right? The legendary coffin races. Yeah, we covered this on the... - Right, Colorado, there's a reason why they do it, and I didn't even know it until recently. A girl's coffin was on Earth, James. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Unaccident. The Earth just rejected her like a splinter. - Yeah, this one's no good. - Yeah. - It's a bad one. - Unbelievable. - Cough and races are a teams of Paul Bearers race head-to-head through a course full of obstacles. - Wow. - Okay, and then there's tons of bands playing here, including Float Like a Buffalo. (laughing) That's a band. - Okay, I like it. - Let's see, the dead fish orchestra. Who else here? Future Joy. You don't get it now, but in the future. This is for later. (laughing) Gary M. Hall and the occupants, which... - What is that? - I don't know, they're squatting somewhere, I believe, or occupants, that's it. You can't kick them out, so. That said, let's talk about a murder, everybody. We could talk about frozen dead guys days for a long time. Let's talk about a murder. We're gonna get into a strange world here, just a weird world. Let's talk about a woman first. Let's talk about Kathy Adams is her name. Sounds very middle of the road, whatever. I mean, Kathy Adams, she's born in 1953. In 2010, when the crux of our story takes place, she's gonna be 57 years old. So, psychic K is her AKA. - Oh. - Psychic K, she goes by and-- - Kathy with a K, huh? - Kathy with a K, yeah, with a K. Now, psychic K, K-A-Y, in the Fort Collins area, is very well known. She had this pink house that she did psychic readings out of, and she had ads in the paper all the time, so everybody knew of, in Fort Collins, people go, "Who, you psychic K?" Like, that was be like someone predicting something. So, it was like a joke. - Psychic K is the, what was that Jamaican lady that wasn't Jamaican? - Cleo, yeah. - There she is. - Miss Cleo, the fucking Dion Warwick was on there telling people the future, give me a break. - Since when did Todd Bridges have psychic powers? Really? - Yeah. - So, Kathy, 'cause we'll talk about her and the man she meets are both from the same world here, Kathy is one of nine siblings in the Adams family. And they are the Adams family, 'cause there's some interesting stuff going on here. Now, Kathy had been, she was married and had four children as well. - Okay. - So, she's a psychic with four kids and an ex-husband. She's been working as a psychic for a long time. Her brother, Gary, said she's had psychic ability as a teenager, she started figuring it out. And it's continued through her life. He said, "It got stronger and stronger as she goes." - Okay, well, the day she got married, you should have seen that divorce coming, right? - Yeah, this isn't gonna work out, never mind. And by the way, we will not do any, should have seen anything coming jokes because every newspaper article let off of that. So, if every newspaper article, if those writers thought of it that's beneath us and we can't, that's our last one. - Yeah, but how are you, as a psychic, how can you ever get divorced? Like, you should have known. - Yes, anything that happens bad, you should have known. - Everything. - You should have the most charmed on it. - If you're on the side of the road and your car is like, you know, smokes coming out of it and you're standing there waiting for AAA, fuck you, I'm not coming to you. Why'd you leave the house? You knew that was gonna happen. You knew that or you're, oh, you're a liar, that's what it is, okay. - It's all bullshit. - I don't believe psychics, generally. Some people know some weird shit and you're like, how the fuck do you know that? But the general, like, if you go somewhere, sit down, pay somebody to give you a psychic reading, I generally think that's probably bullshit for the most part. But there's people that have weird stuff, I don't know. - Yeah, I'd certainly trade that power of knowing what's gonna happen to you in your life for what the fuck is wrong with my car. - Yeah, what happened here? - So in 1990, she gets together with a guy. His name is John Marks, Jr., of course. Yeah, if you listen to crime and sports, you know, that's a bad sign. He was born in 1962, so he was about nine years younger than her. - Okay. - He's 48 in 2010. They're gonna be together for 20 years and never get married, too. - Really? - But they keep calling him common law and she uses his last name as like her business name, but in reality, her legal name, I think, is still Adams the whole time. So that's how that goes. To describe Marks here, he's five, 10, little chubby, he's about two, 10, two, 20, kind of guy, black hair, brown eyes, and a criminal history that includes driving while ability impaired, drug possession, and a whole bunch of other shit, like disorderly stuff and, you know, general craziness. - Yeah. - They're both Romani gypsies. - Really? - Unquote gypsies. If you watch, if you watch the, you know, one of those gypsy shows on TV, this one of that, one big fat wedding or whatever the fuck they are, that's who they are. They're those people. And also known as travelers, if they're like of the English islands, they're Ireland or Scotland. Those are travelers, as we know, because we know people that are travelers, and yeah, they're-- - I knew some gypsies going up there. - They would buy and sell cars. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's one of the things going on here. Now, they live in Fort Collins. They move there in about 2002-ish. They live in Fort Collins. She opens up a psychic shop in Fort Collins. - At the pink house. - We've said at the pink house, she works as, there's a big sign that says "Psychic K." It's located on Harmony and Timberline Road. And we'll talk about what happened there. Now, I found her an ad from the internet for Psychic K. - Oh, great. - Psychic K is alternative medicine, astrologers, children's and family entertainment. Claire Voyance, these are all those categories she's under. Hypnotherapy, party entertainment, party services, psychic arts and sciences, psychics and medium, spiritualist company. And it has her phone number and all that sort of thing. 2024 East Harmony Road here. Okay, now I found like her business stuff. She established her Psychic K business in 1999. She's listed as the owner from a newspaper ad from the day. I found Psychic K renews loved ones. Does that mean she rises people from the dead or makes them love you again? - Reanimating folks? - That's an odd promise. Renew's loved ones solves all problems, immediate results. That's a lot to promise. - Yeah, that's a very beetle juice ad. I'll solve all your, yeah, that's exactly what it is. I'll solve all your problems. - I don't like that. - That is a lot. - She's on the dog. - So then in 2004, I found in the newspaper that she became like a local people use her as a reference because I found from the Fort Collins, Colorado, Colorado, Owen, I found a person talking about the 2004 election, an op-ed about it. And she's talking about how, you know, she's trying to make predictions for November 2nd. And she said, "I briefly considered consulting "my daughter's magic eight ball, but it's broken. "I predicted that would happen when we bought it." Psychic K was never home when I called. She must have known I would try. So hilarious. - You can just reference Psychic K in Colorado in the newspaper and everyone knows who you're talking about. So that's how known she is in the area. She's operating here. She said she sees between 10 and 20 customers a month, which isn't even one a day. That's weird. - Yeah. - Doesn't seem like enough to have a physical like, you know, storefront over. - Yeah. That's a lot of money you've got to put out and rent and how much are you charging per reading? - Charges between 25 and $125 a session. - Oh, that's not enough to live. - Doesn't seem like a living, depending on the type of reading. - Does she get a paper route? - Yeah, well, she's got to be doing something. Maybe she's like doing, you know, a grub hub on the side or something. I don't know. She's doing something 'cause that's not enough money to live on. - That's not enough money. - No. - A lot of her customers would drive from other areas of the state and even down from Wyoming to see her. - Oh. - Yeah, she's famous in the area. So she has problems at home with John Mark's Jr. though. - As you should. - He's a dirt bag. I'm just going to come out and say it. He's a fuck. He's a scammy scumbag. Wait till you hear about his family and what scammers they all are too. So her brother Gary, this is Kathy's psychic K's brother, Gary, I guess psychic Gary will call him. - Psychic G. - Psychic G. There was a lot of domestic violence, he said. She used to live here in Atlanta and she was scared of him. So 'cause he lives in Atlanta, Gary, the brother. He said that Mark's Jr. was always angry and frustrated and jealousy was a big issue with him. Very jealous too. When Kathy visited home for the holidays, she said Mark's was forced to come around because he wouldn't let her go by herself. That's what the brother said. He'd have to come too. He even said, quote, he'd get upset with her and say there's too much love around your family and stuff like that. - Ew, what? He doesn't trust that he's not going to fuck her brothers? - Your family likes you and stuff. I bet you-- - I'm like all these hugs. - I bet you fuck your grandpa. Like, you guys touch each other. I saw him give you a hug and he asked like, how you doing and gave you a card? Fuckin' ass all like talking about-- - We chaking about cheek, that's gross. - Thross. So 2005, the Pink House closes. - Yeah. - And it had a big bright psychic case sign and all of that. We'll talk about why because there's an article in the newspaper about it. - Really? - Psychic leaves Pink House on harmony and rental dispute. And they're talking about the owners want to redevelop the site 'cause I'll show you what it is. It's just a, it's a fucking Pink House. - Oh yeah. - And after this, it will become a huge like, multi-thing complex with like a landscaper and exterminators and all sorts of offices. - Yeah. - It's a redevelopment-- - John Cougar would be pissed. - Oh, they tore down a little pink house. (laughing) - You two raised Pink Houses around here. - Shoney Mitchell not thrilled either. It's a very large parking lot. So, it's all fucked up, man. - Yeah. - They should do a duet about it. (laughing) So, they said quote, "Perhaps psychic K should have seen it coming" is the first line. - Okay, damn it. - From 20 years ago in the newspaper. Rick Abramson of the Colorado and-- - Thanks, Rick. - Thanks, Rick. The psychic, thanks comic, Rick. Rich, not even Rick. The psychic who has run her business from the signature Pink and White House at one of the most sought after corners in Fort Collins has left the house amid a dispute with her landlord. The property on the corner of Harmony and Timberline Road stands alone among dozens of national chain stores and restaurants. It's like a business district and there's this old house that's been there forever. - That's just, times are changing. You gotta keep up. - That's all it is. Marks ran her business out of her home for about three years, but recently moved to another house at 4308 North Garfield Avenue between Lovelin and Fort Collins. And her husband, John Marks, also lived in the buildings. Clifton Jones, the owner of the 1,500 square foot house and it's adjacent garage, posted an eviction notice on the property over the weekend because he said the Marks owe him about $10,000 in background. - Oh shit. - Which is what we figured when we heard those prices. She probably owes about 10 grand in background. The Marks is releasing the building for about 1,500 a month. And the business didn't even, I mean-- - No, it's like eight months of a background. - Yeah, that's not gonna work. - They said that the owner who lives in Austin, Texas owned the property for the past seven years and said he was frustrated by the dilapidated state he was in when he recently came to check on it. - And they were trash-- - They let it go to shit, yeah. The yard is overgrown, the paint job fading and trash is piled by the side of the house. Well, the paint job's on you 'cause you own the house. - Yeah, that's-- - It's a repaint. - And the weeds is your issue too. - But they should, you should probably mow your own lawn. I rented a house for a couple of years and had the paint out of the yard mode 'cause I didn't have to like-- - Yeah, and up there, yeah, you do have grass, you're right. - Yeah, and also the trash piled by the side of the house. That's not the owner's fault, that's on that. - You can't do that? - Yeah. He said, quote, it's really a disgrace what they've done out there. - Oh, a disgrace. - A disgrace. They promised me they'd take care of the place. - Yeah. - John Marx said he and his wife moved a couple weeks before they were evicted because Jones, the owner, had failed to repair the roof or fix the plumbing. An agreement both parties apparently made before the Marxes started leasing the house. And John Marx, the husband, said, "I must have tried over a dozen times to repair the roof myself and he wouldn't repair the roof." - Okay. - So yeah, they said they're gonna knock it down and they're gonna redevelop it into a 22,000 square foot property as an office space thing. So that's what they're gonna do. They're gonna raise the buildings and just redevelop it all. They said it's a very good location. So if that's the only business she was doing and she's well-known and it's a great location, people, it's not a big psychic draw here, really. - No. - Doesn't seem like it's a real viable business, but whatever. John Marx said they'd rather come out this way. It's more private and the parking is better. They're a new place. So he's like, "We're happy to leave." So October of 2010 comes around. She doesn't have the pink house for five years. - Yeah. - Having lots of problems. Apparently she is planning to leave John, finally. - It's over. - After 20 years of his ass hollery and the abusiveness and saying, "Your family loves you too much "and weird shit like that." She's finally ready to fucking leave. But on October 11th, 2010, John Marx calls the sheriff's department and says that, "Cathy locked me out of the house." She knew I was coming home, that fucking dammit. I can't sneak up on her. - Call the cops that she locked him out. - Well, and could she disappeared? - Okay. - So I don't know why, if it's his house, he wouldn't just break into his own house, which would be the... - Yeah. - Wouldn't you just figure out a way to break in or call a locksmith? - Maybe he's dumb and he just has seen cops and how they can really open a door fast. - Yeah, they come kick my door open, please. - They're pretty good at it. - But it's weird to report that she had locked him out of the house and disappeared. - Okay, well, what do you call it? Tell your mom that, tell your brother that. What are you telling me that for? - Thanks, have a nice day. - Your common law wife doesn't like you anymore and you can't get in your house, that's a you problem. - Kivai. - Did you run out of gas too? Anything else? Are you hungry? What else can we help you with? Jesus Christ. So the next day is apparently this is over a period of a few days when Cathy's sister was also trying to get ahold of her. So on October 12th, 2010, Cathy's sister requests a welfare check from the sheriff's department. She hasn't heard from her sister in five days. She usually talks to her and she can't get ahold of her at all. And this is in 2010, so cell phones and everything else. This isn't like, I don't know, maybe she's at the grocery store and I keep missing her. - The social media is really kicked off by now. - Big time, big time. So it's on the 2,900 block of East Mulberry Street. Deputies arrive at the home. They knock on the door, check the rear of the house too. No answer inside. Seems quiet. So from the statement the police released to the media, they said, however, there were suspicious circumstances that allowed deputies to enter the home. Deputies found no one inside the home but located evidence that prompted investigators to suspect foul play. Now, what might that evidence be? - Yeah. - Foul play evidence. Well, the things they found are, it's pretty obvious here. - Matt foul. - This is, yeah, blood found in the drains. That's foul, that's pretty foul. How often do you bleed out into your kitchen sink or bathroom sink? Probably not often. - If I've got enough blood that you can see it in the sink, start a search party. - 'Cause I'm probably dead somewhere. I've plumb run out somewhere and fell over. I'm out of blood. - I'm certainly leaking. - Something, yeah. Hey everybody, just gonna take a quick break from the show to tell you about a sponsor that can keep you safe, simply safe. - Simply safe.com, S-I-M-P-O-I, safe.com. - Absolutely, did you know that according to FBI property crime data, most home break-ins happen in broad daylight. - Oh my, is that right? - So as the days are getting longer this spring, you wanna protect your home with Simply Safe. It's the award-winning home security system that Jimmy and I both use, protect our homes, our studios, customers and experts. Everybody is in agreement about one thing and that's Simply Safe is awesome. And you install your system your way, it's easy to do it yourself, even we did it, so you can do it. Or you can get their professionals to do it for you. You can test it out with absolutely no risk to you with Simply Safe 60-day risk-free trial. You don't love it, return it for a full refund. So protect your home today. Our listeners get a special 20% off any new Simply Safe system when you sign up for fast protect monitoring. Just visit simplysafe.com/small. That's simplysafe, S-I-M-P-L-I-safe.com/small. There's no safe like Simply Safe. Now back to the show. - What makes a life a good one? Is it the adventure you have? Or the friends you find along the way? Maybe it's pursuing your passion while striving to protect, defend, and save what you believe in every single day. So what makes a life a good one? In the Coast Guard, we think it's all of the above and more. You'll have to find out for yourself. Visit gocoastguard.com to learn more. - Also around the washing machine, blood around the washing machine. Oh boy. I'm in my home here and a piece of carpet was missing, which is also a terrible. So when there's a big piece of carpet cut out. - It's always bad. - That never looks good. 'Cause I've never gotten to a house that isn't a murder scene and seen a big chunk of carpet cut out of it. - Yeah, a rectangle six, eight inches bigger than me is a bad rectangle. - It was at about a six and a half foot long about a four foot wide chunk of carpet you cut out. That's not, that's normal, right? - That feels like a body can fit on that. - Yeah, so it seems about bodyish. So like a stretcher. So they put out a thing saying, we're looking for this woman because they can't find her whole family's looking for her. She's eight brothers and sisters and everybody else can't find her. So she's five, three, a hundred pounds. That's the difference. - She is tiny. - Tiny, five, three hundred pounds, red hair, brown eyes. - A terrible. - Yeah, yeah, totally. And she might know your comments, so be careful. - Yeah. - Don't think about her. - Not easy to spook her, you know what I mean? - Yeah, exactly. So more evidence here, this is the evidence they, while they're thinking there's foul play, besides the blood because sometimes people cut themselves. Who knows? - Yeah, yeah. - Well, her niece also told police that she was talking to Kathy on the phone when John, she heard John in the background say, "I'm going to fucking kill you. "What the fuck are you doing?" - Oh boy. - Which, yeah, I'm going to fucking kill you. It was pretty, pretty straightforward. It's directed. You know, I like the directness of it, honestly. If you're gonna do something, but this is disturbing is what it is, actually. What the fuck are you doing? So she's hearing abuse in the background is what she's hearing. That was on October 8th, and that was the last time anyone in her family heard from her. - So, it's a bad phrase. - That's not good. The last you've heard is, "I'm going to fucking kill you. "What the fuck are you doing?" Then she disappears and there's blood around the drain. - Uh-oh. - That seems pretty foul, right? - Yeah, as it gets, yeah. - Yeah, now her sister, Kathy's sister, had bought her a plane ticket to Atlanta for October 10th. So she was supposed to, she was leaving. That's how much she was leaving. She was leaving clear across the country. But she then delayed the departure for a week so she could help her grandson, she has kids and she's got a grandson. She had to help her grandson out with something. So she said she would come like a week later. She told her family at that point she was done with her marriage and wanted to come back to Atlanta due to quote multiple instances of domestic violence. - Right. - Oh, by the way, a clump. Just a good-sized handful of John Marks' hair was found on the kitchen table in the home. - His hair. - His hair, just like a little Merkin sitting there. Like he was just, I don't know, yeah. - He's missing like a yarmulke size hair piece. - Yeah, he's just got a chunk of this in somewhere. - Beautiful. - And there's that. They believe, looking at all this, they believe their violence occurred in the bedroom is where they believe. They don't know when anybody would have been killed or anything like that. But they believe that some violence had started in the bedroom and they said then it looked like somebody made a sloppy attempt to cover it up was how it works. A lot of times if you're not good at it, the cover up ends up making it look way worse than it would have to begin with. - When that's messy, that's not good. - They found an eight by 10 foot section of the carpet cut out of the bedroom floor. That's a tip off right there. Half the room's carpet's gone. And there appeared to be blood spatter on the closet door and the whole place smelled of bleach. It's like, holy shit. - Of all those facts, don't you just turn them and go, do you want to just get in the car with us? I mean, what are we doing? What? - Is he in the car already? - We already know, man. - It's harder to find Waldo than it is to fucking, to figure out something very bad happened here. - Both pages for a little while. He goes, maybe he's on this one. No, maybe this one. - Oh, there he is. - Look at right up the middle. - He's by the hot dog stand on the beach. That's where he was. I kept looking by the water. That's the problem. So this is a lot. Well, they don't put him right in the car because he's not there because he's fucking, he just disappeared. He took off. He called the sheriff's department, said, hey, I'm locked out. She's not here. And then left. - Okay. - And so the next day is when the welfare check happened. And so no one knows where he is. So they're investigating. They're seeking him for questioning at this point. They are tracking his movements through a cell phone too. - Yeah. - Yeah, 'cause it's 2010. No, and he's a dummy. So after viewing surveillance video from the Longmont area hotel, investigators said marks came into the hotel on October 13th at 1.30 a.m. wearing gloves. - Jesus, man. - Okay. Then left about nine hours later in a different vehicle leaving behind the vehicle he drove there with. - Is there anything you could do? - Dude, to look worse. - To look worse? - Yeah. Hold on, let me put these gloves on. There we go. Now I look really guilty. - Dragging a body into the room or something? - Yeah, that'd be the only thing. - Anything? - Carrying a rolled up carpet. Just like, struggling to drag a rolled up carpet. Like taking a three there every once in a while. - And then putting it in a different car. - Yeah. He pulled up in a Buick and then left in a different car, left the Buick behind. - Oh, there it is. - Yeah. - So also surveillance video. It's so hard to do things nowadays, you know? - Yeah, yeah. - Surveillance video from the Walmart Super Center in Fort Collins shows Mark's buying tape and gloves here. And surveillance video at the Walmart shows him buying not only duct tape, razor blades and gloves as well. - Sir. - This is just, couldn't get any worse. Where's your giant garbage bag, sir? If you come up in two in the morning with that, you go, sir, are you looking for the giant garbage bags and possibly a chainsaw? Because we have all of these things for your body disposal. - If you got a little bit of effort, there's hacksaws there, I mean. - I mean, yeah, I don't know what kind of shape you're in. - Yeah. - Maybe you want to put a little elbow grease into it, we got it covered. - Are you painting, sir? What do you, what do you mean? - Please tell me. - A razor blades and knives. - Please tell me you really need to shave and paint badly. I really would like to know that. - Are you trimming out? Are you trying to cover up the trim in the room? Is that what you're doing? - No. - Are you painting? Is that what's happening? - Yeah. - So now the brother, Gary, says we're just trying to find her, I hope to God she's alive. - Yeah. - So it's not looking good for this though. And she, I feel terrible for this woman because she apparently put up with a lot of shit from this guy. - No kidding. - For decades, it was abused quite a bit and then was finally getting the fuck out. Like had a plane ticket was ready to go and everything. - Done. - Done. And then this is, so this is a scary thing here. So while she's missing, there is a website here that Alison found that was empathyinsights.blogspot.com. Okay. - All of the blog spot. - Yes. This is where somebody did a psychic reading to try to figure out where Kathy was because of Kathy's psychic abilities. This person thought that there would be, she'd be extra in tune to be able to find her. - Right. - Okay, so they did all of this. They said it's very important that readers of the blog understand this. Therefore, no one has to be very discerning when reading. Media news can put out stories that are not factual and are premeditated, but tarot can pick that up. So-- - Oh, so we take tarot reading. - Tarot can cut through all the bullshit, is what they're saying. - Yeah. - False reports, things like that. - It's a deck of cards, James. - Yeah, it does it. It doesn't mean that a tarot, that tarot is wrong. It shows tarot can see what might be suggested. However, when writing, the tarot may be taken as a fact. So, there's that here. They said it cannot be considered 100% accurate. Please note tarot picks up past, present, and future vibrations. - Oh. - So I'm gonna tell you what's to stop. - So they can get crossed. - And if it's wrong, there's a lot of reasons why that's possible. (laughing) Which seems like it'd be about as accurate if I said, I think this is gonna happen. - Yeah, it's gonna happen. - I don't know. - When you have to qualify your reading, it's bullshit. (laughing) - Well, the fact that seven chicks in high school did tarot card readings for me, tells me that I don't think all of them proud of gift, probably. You know what I mean? I think that's just a fun thing that some people like to do, and it's fun. And who cares? - It is fun, fun. - You should put your whole life on it. - You're probably closer with one of those four-sided things that mash things. - Yeah, you're gonna live in a mansion with Julie, and... - And drive a pinto. - Drive a pinto. - Why is there always a pinto? - Always is that that was, you know, you can't have it all, Jimmy, that's why. You never know. I love when you had, you're married to a supermodel, you live in a mansion and you drive a Chevy Chivette. Wow, how is that possible? Why don't I move into a smaller house and buy a car that runs? This is ridiculous. - I'll bet she's leaving, too. - Yeah, she's not gonna drive, and that fucking thing. - So they said that they cannot guarantee 100% accuracy. I can provide glimpses and hope they may be of assistance. So here it is. My first question is what happened to Kathy? And she has a card. My first card for Kathy is an attempt to find out what happened, might play out differently, but it's what I have asked. That sentence is crazy. - What the fuck? - Taro has given to me the two of wands reversed. I always think of threes as families, but here is the two or more people, and when that is upside down, something is remiss between them. The very first thing is the card is wands, which shows a great deal of energy when it's upright, but when reversed, this energy gets drained out. There's a total lack of impetus here or clarity in a venture. The card shows her joining up with someone who should have had good business results, where you put all your ideas together and you let them set sail and wait for the results. Your ships to come, but here reversed, there's a terrible fear of deception likely in business or with property, definitely spelled wrong, sorry, ulterior motives and some kind of creative block of some sort. I feel a risk was taken here against someone's better judgment. Someone is not being realistic about the situation. There's no cooperation in business at all. Okay, so just reading that back, this lady has linked up, this is still the reading. With someone in business trusted them or felt she could, and then it probably dawned on her that this was not a good idea, perhaps a bad risk, then realized that too, realized too that she possibly has been deceived. I would definitely read the card that way. I would do this because the card is the two of wands in general meaning over business, blah, blah, blah. Okay, tell us where she is. I think we have the picture here. I see someone pretty confident in this card, but I also see someone else who's wanting to exploit that person who will oppose their visions. I'm guessing from the brief link that the guy pictured there might be the exploiter, meaning her husband. But we shall see there may have even been three people involved here. However, let's just say one was pretty confident in their thoughts and ideas and one was opposed by someone else. Okay, my next question is to establish where Cathy is. That's the important part, really. - Right, uh-huh. - Bear in mind, it may be completely wrong. Okay, but there are ships in the three of wands. So that could have something to do with the shipping except the reversed card they are in port. I mention it yet it may not be of any consequence in this manner. However, looking above, I'm seeing a slightly unpleasant card. This card tells us that it's all ruined in quotes, which is either an intuitive message from Cathy or indeed could be exactly what it looks like on that card. The card is a man laying there with like a dozen swords in his fucking torso. - Three of wands? - I guess, that's what she says. I don't know, I don't know what the fuck that is. - That's a shitload of wands in that guy. - That's like a 12 of swords it looks like. - Yeah. - So she says that if that is a location then one will expect to find Cathy near a coastline 'cause there's water right next to the card. I have the back in this picture and if it were health matters and not location I would have thought that this person had back problems or some kind of accident to their back. Not sure that's exactly what I'm getting but backstabbing is not far away from my thoughts whether it's literally or figuratively which could make sense with the business card flop that has already appeared. - Sure, sure. - Some people may know that the number 10 card is considered the aftermath so it's the aftermath of an event where Cathy ends up at least I am feeling that's what I have. - That's what that X is, that's the 10. - Okay. - That's a real numeral 10 up there. - It also says previous to this card is a very distressing scenario of nine of swords is someone who is absolutely terribly worried, can't sleep has had a lot of turmoil running through their head. Nine of swords shows a bedroom scene but we are looking at the 10 of swords. We are asking about location so I see her in the bedroom upset and distressed then we have this card where someone is clearly laying out near water. - Okay. Okay, now by the way, none of the, we found the blood and all that. None of that was released to the public yet. - Oh, so she doesn't even know if there was a bedroom incident. - No, that's that, I will give them that. That was shit came out. - Yeah, card gave her that. - Exactly, they didn't release that right away 'cause that would have been, you know, they just said they were looking for this husband to talk to him. There is a book to be found. It might be an itinerary book or accounts book or some kind of journal. Anything on paper that can be significant so I will give that. Tent of swords is direction for direction is east. It gives me spring and sunrise. Well, spring is not much use and autumn, is it? So we could consider spring as a part of the location name worth considering. I'm getting the brain and nervous system here and possible problems in relation to that. A complete sensation of overkill so a lot of force appears to be applied. There seems to be a divorce, bankruptcy, loss, tears, et cetera, all general upset in this card. I never liked this card very much and I'm sorry to see it because it will indicate that circumstances may be far from pleasant. - Yeah. - The indication. - I never liked this card much. That's funny. - Never liked this one, yeah. The indications are that it is a man in the picture of 10 of swords. Oh, this is a 10 of swords, not the three or whatever. But I can't decide the gender. Let me mention that this is not a death card. Many people assume it is. What I can say is it's not necessarily a death card but it does show bottom line for everything because it shows everything is completely spoiled. So then they said, when will they be fat? Where will she be found? - Three of wands was because that's the next card in the wand series. - Oh, you're right, you're right. Okay, gotcha, gotcha. So this card is like an eight, and it looks like a bunch of sticks on it. - Eight of sticks? - Eight of sticks, it looks like an eight of twigs. This card is a great speed generally wands meaning weeks but it could be anytime beforehand and Cathy will be found. Note that there is countryside, hilly area, and house and stream all in that picture and that could be part of the landscape at the time. I'm not sure if an aeroplane has some arrow, she says an aeroplane, has something to do with the situation, but I'm going to mention that even though I can't place its significance. Cathy appeared to rely on the night of pentacles, possibly with a money venture, believing that person would be stable and viable and someone who she could perhaps trust. Okay, the location of the ten bleeds into the page of swords. I have almost always seen this as a hill which can have an actual name. Railways come into it, sometimes not always and someone swinging a stick that clearly suggests something predatory. Someone has spied here on someone else. Lots of secrets and peculiar matters. Well, psychic would be spying technically, wouldn't it, being a psychic. - You're spying like a motherfucker. - I would look coastline, railway, hill, spring, number 10, east direction. Possible container involved somewhere and something about the end of the year. Someone with problems breathing. And she says, "Phoenix," or they say, "Phoenix," or "Pecox," and ultimately a bit of bad juju. I will leave this as a brief synopsis and this is a brief overlook. I will come back and look again. I think I will take a look at this case up to, I think I will take a look at this case up to police knowledge at the current time, then see if I can improve location and see what might connect to what I have. Okay, interesting, yes. So they talk about all of this. They're talking, she keeps talking, or they keep talking about a hill and all this type of shit. They said, "I asked Tara where Kathy had been between October 7th and 14th and I got the chariot which means two things basically. Either she was in a car crash physically or symbolically or the actual fact is she didn't go anywhere because her journey was postponed, meaning she was stationary." 10 days late. How, a week later, she's out of that, wow. That would indicate not a lot of movement. Asking where Kathy was between the 14th and 22nd of October, I'm being given temperance reversed. This card's a complete lack of control, total imbalance, loss of patience and a good lot of arguments going on between two people. The card previous to this is the lovers reversed, their union stinks in this card and there's a smell in the air which is not nice. It could be over alcohol because temperance has a wine cup in it. Okay, so they said drugs or alcohol could be a part of this or strange lust slash sexual matters. It's all there. It all arises in these cards. This is more than a domestic dispute as it takes into account every avenue of this. Couples lives where one of them is dominant and the other one gets better in the situation. This person's basically saying, I don't think this is gonna end well. Yeah, but they're also saying it's over either money, sex or drugs and alcohol, which are the most-- Could be factors. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, yeah, a drug. It's the ruiner of all relationships. No shit, no shit. Or money, Jesus. So they're also asking about John and they're trying to figure out where John is through all of this here. And they're talking about one of them is a cliff with water nearby. The previous card is the fool that shows someone also by a cliff with a dog biting their ankle. He has bags packed so he intends on going somewhere. Music is part of the fool card. Maybe he has decided to face the music. What kind of music that is, I don't know, is it his own sense of facing the music or a general sense of facing up to one situation. So they said, I could be wrong, but cliffs can be hills. I would be more explicit with this, but the next card is something we can look at. So they're basically saying, look for cliffs and hills. This guy's on the run, which we knew anyway here. It's a weird situation. So it's a little while later where the car is found. Where's it at? It's at that hotel, because they didn't-- Oh, that one, yeah. That's how they figured out to get the footage. Once they found the car, then they looked for the footage and said, holy shit, he's got gloves on. He leaves another car. This is weird. So they find it's their Buick. It's in a hotel parking lot. They send in a cadaver sniffing dog, which alerts on the trunk of the Buick. Uh-oh. So this, by the way, John had bought this car a few weeks before Kathy disappeared. It's pretty new. In three weeks, either she was in it, or the previous owner is transporting corpses. 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The kind of teammate who reduces everyone else's busy work with a new prospecting workspace, a teammate who keeps the entire team focused and on track with easy to use deal management tools, a teammate who won't jockey for your promotion or microwave leftover shrimp scampi in the break room. Learn how you can close deals faster and crush your revenue goals with sales hub at HubSpot.com/sales. Yeah, the investigators also found inside the car gloves garbage bags and cleaning supplies. That's John. Not good. And they traced it back to Walmart, got the surveillance footage and said, oh, there he is buying all this shit. All these things, yeah. October 23rd, 2008. It is 11.08 AM when Laramir County Sheriff's Office deputies are called to an area of highway 36 near the border of Boulder County on a report of something laying in a ravine off the road. Oh, upon closer inspection, they determined it to be a body. They couldn't tell, it was so decomposed, they couldn't even tell gender at that point. Wow. So they said the body had, you know, just decomposed to a terrible state. And they said that there's, you know, they don't know anything. They said no indication that this incident is related to any open cases at this time. Body was transported. Two days later, they figure out it is Cathy Adams, this body. She's died of blunt force injuries. Wow. Which is, they said, actually like a crashing, a beating, that type of thing. She was found, she was dumped naked with injuries from head to toe. Real, including genitals and everything. She's sexually assaulted and every other way possible. It's a horrible. She was found duct taped up with the carpet around her. Oh, Jesus. Horrible, fucking horrible. She was wrapped also in drapes from the house, curtains that matched from their house. This is from a fucking set of curtains. She took one of the curtains and wrapped her in it, matches the house, blunt force trauma and strangulation, both as the cause of death. Also said she suffered injuries to her, like we said, her genital area. So her wedding ring was ripped off her finger, they said also. Like ripped off her, like her, ripped her finger off, basically by her wedding ring. So that's symbolic, isn't it? It's none of her other fingers. That's right, yeah. Yeah, give me my ring back. It's fucking crazy. And also there was brain bleeding and 11 rib fractures before she was strangled to death. Wow, fucking-- Just a beating. A horrible beating, a wrapping up and just a dumping unceremoniously down a ravine. That's fucking gross. Horrible. Gross. So the reaction to this, her sister, Debbie, said this is terrible, now it's real. Everyone thinks that they're exempt from the bad things in the world. There's not a lot of good in some people. That's horrible, is that they must be fucking go. She was this close to being home, you know what I mean? Like they felt like, finally, yeah. A week and she's in Atlanta starting a new life. If you're, if that's your sibling, you've been worried about them for a long time in this relationship and she's finally doing it and finally gonna be here and that's just horrible. They still can't find John though. He's still on the wrong-- He's still on the fucking lamb here and will be for about another week. Really? Yes, October 29th, 2010, he's finally caught and he is caught when he went to a Perkins with his parents. (laughing) Why a Perkins? Why a Perkins? You know what, I'd rather probably get arrested than eat the food there, so you know what, good. Thanks, you guys are saving me. This is near, in love land near the Budweiser events center. So, Colorado. Yeah, yeah. So he was caught off guard, I guess. He had scratch marks all over his chest when he was arrested. Still has him. This is three weeks later, almost. Yeah. And he had $1,700 in cash in his shoe. In his shoe? In his shoe. In his shoe, yeah. That's an uncomfortable walk, that's a lot. Yeah, by the way, the body was dumped in a mountain ravine, which is-- No kidding. Exactly what that tarot shit said. So, yep, he had been staying in multiple hotels using cash and aliases. They just tracked him by a cell phone to see where he was going all around. So they put him in court here as bales initially said at $100,000, but then they up it to a million due to the severity of what he did. Yeah, I would say so. They said they also declined to change the bond amount, noting that marks had taken steps to evade capture. They tried to get it lowered back down again. They said, no, no. He tried to escape. It's not like he turned himself in. He's running on a straight cash system at the moment. That's a man that doesn't want to go there. He doesn't want to face this. And they said it was in the newspaper for fucking three weeks that we wanted to talk to him. He knew we wanted to talk to him. Anybody who ran into him said, hey, if you heard, they want to talk to you, probably. Right. He definitely was doing that. Meanwhile, his attorney in court said he didn't go anywhere. Here he is. He's still here in Loveland. He was still around. I mean, he just didn't know where. So the second degree murder they're talking about, that carries a sentence of eight to 24 years in prison. First degree murder carries life in prison or death. So according to Colorado law, a person commits second degree murder if he or she knowingly causes the death of another person. First degree murder requires proof that the person killed someone after deliberation and with the intent to cause it. So there you go. Now, the defense, this is the trial here, holy shit. His defense is that he's a gypsy and you don't understand. Oh, that's his defense. I don't think that that-- It's a gypsy thing you wouldn't understand. That's literally-- I don't think that's-- yeah, I don't think that's recognized. I don't think it's good for a jury, really, probably. You don't want to take the Jeep approach to this. It's super weird. So the defense said, listen, you need to know the history of the Romani Gypsy culture, which both of these people came from. They're both members of. And they said, it's not unusual for members of this community to avoid contact with authorities because they've had such a long history of persecution. She's bringing up Hitler. And like, you know, because they sent them to concentration camps, too. There's just a lot less of them. So they're bringing up like, because Hitler was mean to them. But in this country, they're just white people that nobody knows what the fuck they are unless they tell them, hey, I'm a gypsy. And then they just go, oh, like that TV show? That's the end of it. No one cares. Yeah. Yeah, that's strange, OK? So you have big crazy weddings with ugly dresses. Sounds great. Heard you've never heard of a Bundt cake. So you guys wear frilly green puffy prom dresses to get married in, all right? You spray windex on everything, OK. That's Greeks. That's from my big black Greek wedding, not that I do remember. Same shit, all right? Who do you care? Throw some Italian shit in there, it works. It's all the same. Don't worry about it. So that's their defense. Quote, they hide because they have a tradition of hiding. They hide because they've been persecuted. Maybe they have, but he killed the lady. So that's different. That's why he's doing it. She said a cultural expert will testify as to the very secretive community that refuses to assimilate, explaining why community members tend not to cooperate with law enforcement. And they also said that they were raising her grandson when she disappeared, countering prosecutors' assertion that she was trying to flee the marriage. Meanwhile, she said, I need to delay it a week. She had a plane ticket with her name on it. Because she had to do something with the grandson, that's the point. So the prosecution says, well, I don't know, there's DNA evidence and logical evidence all over the house here from a violent bloody scene at the home. And also, oh, yeah, we found shit under her fingernails that point to him, scratches that he's got on his chest. - Yeah, so his defense as I ran, and that's my culture. Okay, but you murdered. - Yeah, you forgot about that part of the murder. Yeah, they're saying, just 'cause he ran, it doesn't mean he's guilty. He's a gypsy, that's why he ran. That's what they're saying. They're used to that. That's the whole defense. But the prosecution said, evidence taken from her body will scream at you. They said that the district attorney, Josh Lehman, described the elements as of a, quote, "intimate beating" and sexual assault by her husband. So they show all the evidence that we just talked about. The plane ticket, she's leaving him. There's DNA, clump of hair, her blood, his shit under her fingernails. It doesn't seem real, like a real stretch to deliberate here. The closing arguments here, the defense team argued, there isn't enough evidence to show that Marx was the one who killed her. Just isn't. They said some DNA samples weren't specific enough to indicate whether Marx or maybe one of his male relatives could have left him. - Oh. - So all the evidence points to him, but maybe just his brother came over, killed his wife for no reason. - Him, but maybe his family too. - 'Cause it's that side the DNA got, somebody from the male, a male member of this family. Well, guess what? She's married to a male member of that family who happens to have DNA under the fingernails of the victim and a clump of his hair on the fucking table. - And then he's running. - And then ran away and used his own drapes to wrap his wife fucking ridiculous, ridiculous. So the attorney said that the case is complicated. It's really not, it's really not all complicated. And it's normal for members of the gypsy community to hide and avoid police. He also said that if a close relative had killed Cathy, that John would have definitely tried to cover it up. He wouldn't have helped the cops. 'Cause he's a gypsy. So after they hear the closing arguments, they were deliberating here, this is a second degree murder and sexual assault. He's being charged with, but right before it goes to jury, they add another charge. This is actually requested from the defense and the judge grants it. That's a charge of accessory to a crime. That was added as an option just in case jurors decide that maybe he was covering up for somebody else. Maybe that male relative shit worked and they think a brother did it and he's just helping cover it up. So maybe they'll just give him that. So it's four men and eight women on the jury and the verdict comes in guilty of murder and sexual assault, absolutely. - Absolutely, guilty as fuck here. - Yeah, so during his sentences, family members of Cathy described him as sadistic and extreme here. Her brother, Danny, said, "We can never recover. "This man cannot be freed again "to put anyone through what this family has been through." Now, two of his three sons were there and they had a letter from his third son and one of them said, "Cathy Adams never said anything "about John being violent toward her." That's what the family attorney said. - Wow. - Oh, great. Yeah, 'cause they keep an insular, that's why. - That was, I mean, that was the whole reason she was leaving 'cause she said lots of physical violence. - It's got violence, yeah. - But they said, he didn't, she didn't tell me, "Well, yeah, you're not in the family either, so that's why." He, they said, "Would you like to say anything, "anything you'd like to say for yourself?" And he said, "Nope, I'm good." So the judge says, "Okay, it might turn then." - You sir, may fuck off. 48 years, which is the maximum possible for second degree murder and on the sexual assault, another eight years to life, which is to be added consecutively to the murder. - So he's got to do the murder time, then we'll do the eight to life and every eight years we'll talk about, well, eight years at least and then after that we'll talk about letting you out. - And he's like 50 and not in great shape. - You're going to be 113. - Yeah, you're going to die in prison at 67, probably. I'm going to give you, if you're lucky, how about that? - The meeting you probably got about seven years to go. - Yeah, you're almost there, big guy. So in 2014, they finally put up that office building where the little pink house was, by the way. - Really? - Finally, for Christ's sake. Yes, a Geico insurance has moved in there. - Fantastic. - It's a 6,600 square foot two story building. There's an exterminator in there and a landscaper and, you know, it's a-- - Your psychic is dead, but a little corporate park. You're going to save some insurance money. - Jesus, good news, 10% on your auto insurance. So it's been vacant since 2005. - Okay. - This guy just let the house deteriorate for another 10 years, basically, which is crazy. Now, 2015, let's start talking about John's family 'cause full of scammers. Okay, his son and his son's wife, who are also psychics, by the way, John Marx's son and his wife, scam a woman out of $37,000, allegedly here. They say a self-proclaimed Fort Collins psychic is accused of bilking $37,000 from a woman distraught over a breakup with her boyfriend. - Oh God. - This is the son, Gina, our Stephen Marx and her, his wife, Gina. They were arrested, charged with class four felony theft and additional felony counts of identity theft and financial crimes have been lodged against the wife. Oh, the least say the couple convinced the woman to buy mystical crystals from them. - Yep. - And to give them target gift cards, which Gina Marx later spent on electronics and home goods. The victim of the alleged theft first met Gina in August 2013 for a palm reading after breaking up with her boyfriend and questioning several aspects of her life. Marx at that time told the woman to burn orange candles before bed after six or seven nights, she would dream about the person she was to be with. - Wow. - When the dream didn't happen, the woman met with Marx for a follow-up tarot card reading. I'm gonna go deeper into this since she lied to me once, might as well give him more money. - It's just George Clooney. It's all George Clooney dreams. What's happening? - What's going on? That's when Gina and Stephen Marx promised to work with the woman until she found her soulmate. Until you run out of money or find your soulmate. - Yeah, whichever happens first. - The woman paid $120 for twice weekly meetings. - Oh God, 240 a week? - A week. She was instructed to text Gina Marx about her dreams and open a Bible to random pages and text Gina Marx the chapter and verse. The victim said she kept thinking of the number nine to which Gina Marx said she needed $9,000 in an envelope and the two exchanged throughout their meetings. - You're right, the number nine, it's 9,000. - Oh my God, the woman became, isn't that amazing? Nine, that means $9,000, you give me. As the woman started to have doubts about this whole thing and started to realize she was going broke, literally. She couldn't pay her bills. She asked for the $9,000 back. It's at that point that Stephen got involved. - Yeah. - John's son and the couple convinced her to spend a combined $21,700 on gems that would prevent her ex-boyfriend from finding love on match.com. (laughing) Okay, if you're willing to spend $21,000 to keep your ex from finding someone on match.com, you deserve whatever you get. Sorry, you deserve it. You're an idiot and a spiteful idiot. Fuck off. - Yeah, also, as a failure on match, don't worry. He didn't find it. (laughing) - No, he missed it, yeah. - It's not there, anything. - It's not there. Not love, he didn't find anything. - No. - You found the clap, probably, but that's it. - He found someone that's gonna take half his shit in six years, that's all right. - He found the right bumpy shit on his dick is what he found. So the woman also opened a credit card line at Target to purchase thousands of dollars gift cards, which Gina Marks reportedly said she would meditate over and return to her. I have to meditate over Target gift cards. That's the only way I can get a reading. - You didn't have these back after I used them anyway. - Oh man, yeah. Well, when the woman asked why she never received the cards, quote, "Steve Mark said the gift cards were in a Bible "and Gina Marks was working on them." Later, Stephen Marks said the only way to ensure happiness was for the woman to spend $67,500 on armor of God, which is a, not a thing, it's not like a statue, it's nothing. It's a spiritual, non-tangible item that consisted of a helmet, a breast plate, and a sword. - Oh my God. - They gave her a playset and we're like, "Here you go, 67 grand." So the cost of a Mercedes, here you are. - The price of an Escalade. - They told her if she didn't do it, her soulmate would forget about her and would, quote, "meet a blonde sex addict" who Stephen described as the spawn of Satan in mortal form. - She sounds fantastic. - This is awesome. - Hope I meet her one day. - Oh, about that time she saw reports of scams involving psychics and went to an investigator and then reported it to the police. They determined that the target gift cards purchased by this woman were used to buy two iPads, an Xbox, a PlayStation 4, a razor, clothes, a TV, food stamps, benefit card, rounded out a purchase not entirely covered by the gift cards. - Unbelievable. - That card was confirmed to be issued to Gina Marks. That's how they had proved it was hard. So they served a search warrant and found all the shit that they had taken and they also located credit cards believed to have been stolen from someone that Gina knew as well. She, this is wild. She's also involved in a different one. Adam Marks, who's another kid of his, was arrested in 2012 and charged with stealing more than $20,000 to help heal a woman's negative aura. - Unbelievable, man. - Gina Marks pleaded guilty in 2015 to a felony theft charge and was ordered to serve 90 days in jail and eight years of probation and 36 grand in restitution. Now that, I don't know what happened to the son, so all that's a legend, but that's what that's the newspaper alleged. Now, Nancy Marks, I don't know who she is to her, to him, maybe a sister 'cause she's 54, she's a suburban Denver psychic who in 2010 was accused of stealing thousands of dollars from clients by telling them money is evil. - You have to give it to me, I'll take care of it. - No, no, no. She needed to know their credit card numbers to make sure there wasn't too many sixes in them 'cause that would be evil. So tell me your credit card number, I'll tell you if it's an okay credit card number for you. - I believe it's enough, it's not sixes. - Holy shit. They say one client lost $50,000 after giving Marks his credit card numbers when she said anything with the number six and it is bad and that she would draw out the bad energy. Instead, she made large purchases at department stores. - Drawing out the bad energy. - Drawing it all out. (laughing) That's not all. - Thousands, yeah. - What? - Next up, Cousin Peaches. What Peaches? Cousin Peaches? - Real name. - Second, I don't know. Second Cousin that was arrested in California for scamming a person for $450,000. Her name is Peaches Marks, apparently. - Yeah. - Her sister Anna Marks took a poor soul for over $250,000 in New York State a few years ago and fled to California. A warrant was issued a few years ago. She's still on the loose. - Oh my God. - This is, this family is fucking wild. They're not paving driveways. Like, no, we are a traveler, friends used to do or do painting and stuff. - Working their asses off in the sun. - Oh, so then Adam, by the way, in 2016, his other son, Adam Marks, is sentenced to six years in prison. - Shit. - After that's the $20,000 negative aura and meditate and deal with the huge angel protecting her. - Yeah. - So that's what he was supposed to do. He pleaded guilty to one count of theft and all of that shit. Now 2020, John Marks, Jr., our murderer here, appeals his claim, or appeals his conviction, saying that his attorneys failed to properly advise him of a potential plea agreement. And they say, "Now you can fuck off." - I told ya, yeah. - Yeah, they said it was fine. They said there absolutely, there was absolutely no formal offer made is what the prosecution said. They're only obliged to bring a formal offer, not a possibility of an offer. That's different. That's so. They said that if we did receive an offer mid-trial, I think that's something we would have encouraged him to take. The lawyers are like, "What do you think you went through with this embarrassment of a trial?" - Yeah. - I think we would have went with the closing argument of, "You don't get it, they're gypsies?" No, we wouldn't have done that. - And we were confident we were gonna get ya, and we did. We didn't need to offer you anything. - Now there are a couple other psychic Ks here, by the way. If you go to psychick.com, there is a psychic K that is listed in Palm Beach Gardens, Florida. - Yeah. - They do chakra balancing, tarot and all that sort of thing. And then there's also a psychic K on LinkedIn who's in the UK. A psychic K from the UK. And that's her name on there. And she says she's, "Psychic Kingdom." She's been aware of her essences since the age of 11, and has been performing these readings for many years with the help of her spirit guide, Martha, who's also her late, great grandmother. I give up. - Oh my God. - I'm out. That's Small Town Murder Express, everybody. That's Estes Park, Colorado. They found her body in Estes Park, Colorado. That's why we didn't that there. It's a little bit of a cheat 'cause it's a crazy story, but fuck it. - Yeah, but you enjoyed it. What do you care? - That's where it is, yeah. - That's right. So thank you for joining us for that. Definitely shut up and give me murder.com. April 20th virtual live show, just like a regular live show, in your house available for two weeks after that. April 5th Sacramento, actually in Sacramento. - Yeah. - April 6th, San Francisco, get your tickets right now. They're going fast and big stuff. You're first on deck. Don't embarrass yourselves, fuckers. Let's do this. Do that, patreon.com/crimeandsports this week in ringboxer debts, and of course, the Mel Lyman cult, East Coast Charles Manson. Get in there and learn all about that. Follow us, hang out with us. It is, what are we? Small Town Murder on Instagram, Small Town Pot on Facebook. You know where the fuck you find us. Keep looking, thank you so much, everybody. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. - Bye. (upbeat music) - Hey, Prime members. You can listen to Small Town Murder early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Download the Amazon Music app today, or you can listen early and ad-free with Wondery Plus and Apple podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondery.com/survey. Taylor Swift is soaring high. Her every move captured in the news cycle and devoured by her devoted fans. She's broken billboard records and made Grammy's history, not to mention becoming a billionaire in the process. 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