A lot of times being a conservation can make you feel pretty lonely when you start to see and observe things around your local area. You start to see maybe flooding or a lot of debris around rivers and streams and coastlines. It can be kind of weird. Just you being aware of it, you telling people, people not really caring your family and friends about being like, "Well, what can we do? We can't do much." And it can feel very lonely. I've heard that a lot from, you know, people in the audience and just people who are trying to get into conservation and they want to do something, but they may not have a marine biology background. They may have other jobs and they just can't dedicate their full-time to it and they just feel kind of lonesome and just being like, "What can we really do?" But they feel that, you know, climate anxiety, ocean anxiety type thing. But there is ways that you can feel more of a community and then around the issues that you care about the most, like the environment. And that's joining a place like Surfrider. Surfrider has been doing conservation, advocacy work along the coastlines, not only for surfers, but for everybody and the entire community who lives in and around the coastline. And we are here to talk today with CEO Chad Nelson of the 40th anniversary and where the Surfrider organization originated and how it's doing and where it's going to go in the future. We're going to talk all things policy and advocacy work and how they created the chapter network, how they have all these volunteers, and how they make sure that everybody's trained up and feeling like a community. And some of the great things that they've done over the last 40 years and hopefully in 40 more. So we're going to talk about that on today's episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. Let's start the show. Hey everybody, welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the Ocean Podcast. I am your host Andrew Lewin and this is the podcast where you find out what's happening with the ocean, how you could speak up for the ocean and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking action. And on today's episode, it's a special one folks. We got another interview this time with CEO Chad Nelson is back from Surfrider on the episode on how to protect the ocean to discuss the 40th anniversary of Surfrider. We're going to talk about the origins, how a few surfers decide to say, Hey, you know what, we need to start looking at what's happening around us. We're starting to see some surfing and some hot surfing spots go away, move away, get transformed into harbors and so forth. And water quality diminishing, we need to do something about we need to stand up as a community as a surfing community. And that blossomed over the years, over the last 40 years, into a network of over 100,000 volunteers, 200 chapters, 80 full-time staff, and so many good things done for our coastlines, for the ocean, and for the communities that lie within them. And it's a lot of fun to be able to talk to Chad. Chad has been on the podcast a number of times. We've talked about his career, why he chose a PhD when he did when he did his PhD. We talked about that in another episode today. We focus solely on his 29 years growing as a biologist, as a person, into the adult he is now going from an intern now as the CEO of one of the largest grassroots organizations in the world. And being able to talk about all the great things that he has been able to be a part of as surf rider and what they've been able to do, and how they feed off of the passion of the volunteers that make up the chapter network, as well as build programs because of that passion, and be able to share it with other chapters, and be able to do something on a larger scale. And at the beginning I said, you know, sometimes conservation can feel lonely, and even myself sitting in this office talking about oceans when I'm not doing an interview and doing a solo episode, a lot of the times I'm like, man, I wish I could really be out there and be a part of it. Well, being a part of surf rider means being a part of the action, and you can be a part of the action in a lot of different ways, and I'm gonna put a link in the show notes in the description. It's volunteer.surfrider.org. You can join as a volunteer, because it's one of the greatest organizations around, and it really listens to its volunteer. It trains its volunteers, and you can feel like you're doing something for the coastline in and around your area. And it's not only in the US, it's in Canada, it's in other places, so just go to that website, volunteers.surfrider.org. You can join as a volunteer, and for now you can listen to Chad Nelson talking about the wonderful things that's been happening over the last 40 years with surf rider. Enjoy the interview, and I will talk to you after. Hey, Chad, welcome back to the How to Protect the Ocean podcast. Are you ready to talk about the 40th anniversary of surf rider? Yeah, hey, thanks, Andrew, for having me back, and these are exciting times for surf rider. Absolutely. Not only for surf rider for everybody who's not only involved in surf rider, but who have been following surf rider for a long time. This is not every day where you get an organization that hits 40 years and being around and doing amazing things. And today, you know, Chad, you've been on the podcast before a number of times. We've gone over sort of your development through ocean science and ocean conservation, your PhD work and so forth. We've talked about your involvement in surf rider here and there, and as the CEO and executive director, like that's a huge thing. But we haven't really talked about your evolution in surf rider, because you've been around, I think it's almost 29 years since you like started your internships and and so forth. And, you know, it's been around 40 years. So you've been there for a significant portion of over 50% of the time since surf riders been around. So we're going to get into sort of like where we're started, how it's going, and then where you're headed into the future. So this is going to be a lot of fun. But just to give people a little bit of a refresher, can you just let us know who you are and what you do? Sure. My name is Chad Nelson and I'm the CEO of the surf rider foundation. Awesome. And now being the CEO and starting off where you started off, it's got to be an incredible journey. It's we've seen surf rider be one of the largest, you know, grassroots organizations, coastal organizations in the US and maybe even even the world. You've done some great things from a policy focus that we've covered on the podcast before. And we'll talk a little bit about that. But it's definitely like, you know, it was a grass, it is a grassroots organization started off as a grassroots organization. But can we just start from the beginning and just be like, how did it all begin with surf rider? How did this incredible organization become this incredible? Like, what was the founding story of it? Yeah, no, it's a great story. And, you know, it started that the summer August of 1984 is our sort of birthday and when we were founded. And, you know, as is often the case, it was sort of a confluence of events. The surfers were focused on Malibu, you know, first point, surf rider beach, famous wave, the wave of Gidget, still like a world-class surf spot that, you know, the water was constantly polluted. The inlet there was being managed without regard for surfing or coastal recreation. So they were, they were frustrated about sort of surfers not having a role. Surf spots in California have been destroyed. Killer Dana, which is now a harbor. It was an iconic famous wave. People are listening to surfers and, you know, as we were talking about before we got on here, there was also this negative stereotype. And the Olympics were in Los Angeles in 1984. That's right. And these three founders, who I'll talk about, you know, sort of saw athletes on the world stage at the Olympics. And we're thinking, why aren't surfers sort of perceived in that way? Right. And, you know, interestingly enough, surfing is also now in the Olympics. Yes, it is. Yeah. And so, you know, they decided to, I mean, what they did is sort of what any good activist does is they saw a problem. And they decided to do something about it. And so, a guy named Glenn Henning, another guy named Tom Pratt in a really like highly regarded Malibu surfer Lance Carson, were sort of the three guys that were credited with founding surf rider in 1984 to try to improve surfing reputation. Give surfers a voice in coastal management decisions and ultimately sort of start protecting surf spots. And in the beginning, we'll talk about the evolution, but in the beginning, it was really about surfers trying to protect surf spots that were being destroyed. It was somewhat myopic. Yeah. That said, they also had something which, you know, we don't do any more called the Baja Assistance Program. A lot of surfers were going down to Baja. So, it had like a humanitarian arm also. Okay. And they were bringing, you know, supplies and stuff down to families in Baja. Again, part of that was to try to like change the perception of surfers as being towards and good citizens as opposed to sort of the negative stereotype. Now, that's what they did that with surf rider. That was one of the like first programs. Yeah, it was like a program in the early days called the Baja Assistance Program. Oh, that's so cool. And that's just, it's kind of cool because that's just like impact. Like here where you, you know, we're on your waves, you know, we're surfing your waves. We're in your area. Here's some stuff that might help you out. Like let's try to do some good community. Yeah, I love that. I love that aspect. What would, you know, when you have these, these three founders, what, and obviously they were probably a part of a larger surfing community, you know, just a surfer by yourself. You usually surf with some friends and maybe family and then you build this community. What was sort of the first perceptions of surf rider by other surfers when that, when that first started? Do you know, you know, that's a great question. You know, I was, I was 14 years old. I wasn't really, I was vaguely aware, but I wasn't in the mix. But, um, but, uh, I, I can generally sense that the, um, that there was a lot of excitement about it. Yeah. You know, Surfer magazine was supporting it. Yvonne Schenard, the infamous founder of Patagonia, was, uh, was, uh, an early financial supporter. Um, there was a lot of good will certainly in sort of the surf industry, uh, to support surf rider. And I think there was a little bit of a sense of like, okay, it's about time. Right. Um, and actually, you know, we, we ended up developing this grass roots model that took a little while. It wasn't until 1993 that these built the chapter network, but, um, part of that was because there was so much interest in other places. Uh, and the organization was so small, uh, they were like, hey, we can't help you. However, if you want to start a chapter, we, we can bond together and work on these things together. So that was the origin of the chapter model. And it's a difficult model to implement, right? Because it takes a lot of trust to other people. Cause it's, you know, you're using the surf rider name, which you've, which at this point is what? It's almost 10 years at this point where they, after they develop it, where they're developing a good name of doing some great things, having some impact on other communities, trying to save some iconic surf spots and stop development where these, these surf spots are obviously, you know, in, uh, preserving water quality, you build up this great name and then you, you people are like, Hey, we want to be a part of this. It's like, all right, like, let's think about this a little bit. Um, knowing surfers though, that community feel you're probably like, this is great. Let's try and, let's try and figure this out. You said it took a while to develop this, this chapter model. Do you know what some of those challenges work is probably in and around near the beginning where you started, you know, volunteering and stuff, but were you around at this point where they developed the chapter model was a little bit before wasn't around. And when I started, I think there's 24 chapters. Okay. So it's still relatively small, but what actually, what happened, which was interesting is, you know, I think they were a couple of interesting things. The guys who started surf rider sort of admittedly didn't know what they were doing. Right. Right. That, you know, oftentimes, uh, big, uh, environmental non-profits were started by a philanthropist or, you know, um, the Kennedy started the keepers, you know. And so, um, this was just a bunch of scrappy surfers who were tired of, uh, getting pushed around. And, um, and so, you know, in the beginning, there was a lot of trials and tribulations. Um, and, and so I think they were just trying to like figure it out. Everyone had jobs. Yeah. And, uh, what happened was there was a, there's a really kind of an iconic coastal conservationist in California named Mark Masara, who's a surfing lawyer, who was a attorney for surf rider in those early days. And he helped lead, uh, a lawsuit against a pulp mill in Humboldt. Okay. Which we won in 1992. And at the time it was the second largest clean water act lawsuit in the country. Wow. And that put surfers, uh, surf rider on the map. Yeah. You know, people, again, like people were like, what a bunch of surfers took on the, you know, this giant paper company and, yeah. Yeah. Because you were dumping effluent in the, in the bay at Humboldt Bay and it was impacting the water quality and the surf. And of course, so that made national media. Uh, and that's when the phone started ringing. Um, we've got problems in New Jersey. We've got problems in Florida. We've got problems in Texas and, you know, this, this staff of five at the time. Yeah. Was like, I, you know, I don't know what to do. And, um, we had a board member named Gordon LeBets. He was on the board of directors and he was heavily involved in the Sierra Club. Um, and so, you know, Sierra Club has a chapter model also. That's right. So he said, Hey, maybe it's time for surf rider to start chapters. Um, and so we did it. And I have to say, um, I, you know, I didn't come up with it. I inherited it as a employee here, but I cannot tell you how effective it is. Right. I, I truly, you know, I've now been at this for a long time. I've worked with just about every other, uh, conservation group in the country. And I really think this grassroots model, it's got its challenges, but when it works, it's so effective and, um, you know, so why, why is it so effective? I'm such a big believer. Um, so I think for a number of reasons, one, um, I think that like matching the bottom up with the top down is a potent sort of formula. And that's because, um, we have real people in communities who are passionate about these issues, taking things on. And, um, and that is a scale that A, we understand as humans, right? You talk about the country and 400 million people, like nobody really can wrap their head around what that means. Um, and, and so part of it, and you, you know, and we're also, we're working with people who are experiencing the issues firsthand. Um, and you can have a lot of influence at the local level at your city council meeting. Um, it's a place where everyone has agency. Um, and so, you know, can you affect a federal law like the inflation reduction act in DC? Well, you can try and we do, right? You call and write and you talk to your representatives, but that's very different than going into your local city hall and talking to your city council members. Um, so I think there's, you know, and I, you know, I get this from some of the big national groups. Sometimes they'll, they'll call in and they'll be like, I use this example. They'll be like, Hey, do you guys know a fisherman? Yeah, because you probably have one that's part of one of your chapters. I'm like, yeah, what state, what town, what, what kind of fishing do you want to commercial guy, rat guy, spiritual guy. Yeah. And, um, and so we're really, we're working with people who are like really in touch with what's going on. No, that's not true. I was down there yesterday and I saw it. Um, you know, so it's grounded in sort of reality. And, um, so I think that's the power of the model. And it, you know, it's a lot of work to, of course, order all these volunteers and activists. And whereas I think a lot of groups focus on scientists and economists and policy makers and lawyers, you know, we spend a lot of our money, time and energy on grassroots organizations. It's, that's, that's where, uh, you know, where we invest to make this work. Of course. And all those other things are important too. I, you know, and we work with a lot of those groups that are more sort of nationally focused, but, um, I think, so I think there's a lot of power there. You know, and then our challenge is, is, you know, the framework of the organization is, how do we take that and scale it up to the state level up to the federal level and even in some cases in the international level? Well, here's what I love about it. Just from looking outside, outside and is, I hear from a lot of people, uh, you know, in sort of my work as a podcaster and building this community where you hear a lot of people's like, I feel alone. Like I feel like I'm by myself. I see these things happening in my community or I see it on, on a video and I feel like I just, I feel helpless. I just can't do it. And I think what the, the chapter model does, especially at surf riders, it gives you that collective home where it's like, you may not be at the headquarters in California, but you are, you might be in Florida, you might be in North Carolina, you might be in New Jersey, but you are, you are sitting there, you were seeing something, and then you can go back and get resources from the chapter or from maybe headquarters and be like, hey, look, here's the problem that we're facing. Have you guys ever dealt with this before? Can we offer some solutions? And then you have these connections at not only the local level, but you also, and other local levels around the coastline or if it's the same coast or different coast, you also have it at the county level, at the state level, and at the federal level where you can start to affect changes. So that person who felt so alone by just volunteering with surf rider or another chapter, like it's, you get this home and you get the support that you probably never had before. And I think that's where that benefit is. And then of course, like, you want that big voice at the top to say, hey, like federally or state wise, we need to make changes. You now you have this influence, because from from like the the name of it as an organization, you could walk in and just be like, well, we have this many volunteers all over the place. People coming to us on this issue. Yeah. Yeah, it's such a, it's such a powerful and effective model that could probably be scary to a lot of the anti environmental policy people that we see be like, Oh, God, here comes surf rider. Like they've got some power. Well, I'm sure it has. I mean, you know, over time, and we'll talk about it. And just said, you you surf rider as an organization, as a grassroots organization has been able to do a lot of effective policy work, you know, in in collaboration with a lot of organizations, but you have a name, you have this good name, and you've worked hard to do that. But before we get into that, you know, you mentioned that there are challenges that come through with, you know, building a chapter and just taking, you know, time to, you know, from the beginning to even install that model and figure out that that model is working. What have been some of the major challenges that that surf riders have been able to overcome over the years from the beginning and even even to now? Yeah, I think, you know, so, you know, to fast forward to today, we have 200 chapters in clubs, you know, up from 24. And, you know, well over 100,000 volunteers that participate with us every year. And, and so, all those chapters are volunteer run. So anytime you're dealing with, you know, I would argue we have, you know, probably close to 1000, what I call chapter leaders, people running the volunteer chapters and then tens of thousands of volunteers volunteering. And so it's a lot of people. Yeah. And, you know, it's a little bit of hurting cats because they're all volunteers. So, you know, I, I'm not in a position to tell them like what to do as their boss. I mean, we have guidelines and structure and, you know, it's orderly and actually remarkably people, you know, the network really stays on task and on mission. We don't spend a lot of time sort of self-correcting. But, so just organizing that number of people, you know, is a challenge, especially when they're all volunteers and, you know, volunteering is challenging. So, there's constantly trying to recruit new volunteers, trying to manage people so that they, they recruit and transition out before they get burned out. Nobody can be a volunteer forever. You know, so in a healthy volunteer organization, you get in, you're excited, you do some things, you recruit other people, you're able to kind of take a back seat. They then recruit new people, and there's this ongoing healthy cycle of folks. So, just training volunteers, you know, retraining new volunteers, kind of trying to get everybody pointed in the same direction. I've always been the challenges. And the other challenge is really kind of a good challenge is we've always struggled to keep up with the interest. So, there's so much interest, you know, the sort of volunteer capacity for good in the country is extraordinary. Yeah, it really speaks well to sort of humanity at a time when I think some people are, you know, frustrated with that. Yeah. And so, you know, we're always, you know, we have 80 employees now, we used to have five. You're still trying to keep up with the amount of interest. Yeah, I want to start a chapter. I need help here. And so that's a good problem. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and so, you know, we feel like we're always feeling like we're just tapping into the total capacity of what we could do with volunteers out there. You know, the better you are to organizing, the more people want to be involved. Well, that's it. And the more things you do, you're able to, I guess, accomplish too as an organization, the more people will be like, oh, a surf rider would be great. Plus, they're known as a grassroots organization. So, they like to work with volunteers. And that's always, that's always wonderful. And as you grow, though, I think one of the, I see one of the challenges is like, how do you remain like the same? Because you got some great quality volunteers. You know, like they do some great work. And when we say volunteers, a lot of them have full-time jobs. And so they're doing this on top of that, right? And so, it's a challenge for them to do, but that's like their hobby. That's what they want to do. They want to protect the environment in their area. So you have a lot of great quality volunteers. Is there like an onboarding process for each volunteer so that, you know, they know the mission, the values of the organization, so they stay true so you can continue to, I guess, develop great quality volunteers? Yeah, I mean, you're right. You know, before I started, I just want to say these, these, I'm, you know, I've been at this for a long time and I am always humbled by the people who are volunteering for Surfrider. Yeah. Because you're right. These are people with jobs and families. In many cases, you know, from high school kids to senior citizens, retirees, and everything in between. And they are doing the hard work volunteering because they want to protect our ocean waves and beaches. So it's just, it is an extraordinary, I mean, I feel privileged to be working with such an extraordinary, you know, group of people. And so yeah, and we invest a lot of time and energy in that. So we have like an online learning platform, you know, with training that we're sort of developing, it used to be sort of fairly crude. And now we're, you know, used to be, it started in the early days as a Xeroxed hard copy book. Yeah, the activist toolkit. You know, then it got online. And you know, then at one point, it was like an intranet. And now it's actually like a online learning management system with like online courses. We do a lot of, we do a lot of regional training. And then we have like, we have a network of regional managers of staff that are out supporting the chapters. And so part of our goal is to have one chapter manager, like support regional manager for every like six or seven chapters. So we have staff that are like everyday support to a region. So in California, we have 18 chapters and we have three staff whose jobs southern central and northern that are, you know, supporting their chapters in their network. Love it. I love that. And it's so interesting too, because there's so many different projects that must be going on at each individual chapter. Is there like a common like, like what kind of, like what kind of projects are going on in some of these? Like, I know you're, there's so many, you don't have to name all of them, obviously, but he just talked about a few that major. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah. Yeah. So we really work on five issues. So clean water, beach access, plastic pollution, coasting climate, which is a sort of flooding and development work. And then pollution conservation, you know, that could range from the marine protected areas, like the new Chumash National Marine Sanctuary, to stopping bad things in the ocean, like offshore drilling. So those five pillars are one, organizing, you know, those are the issues that we won't focus on. Other issues like fisheries, we don't. Right. That's one way of kind of focusing the work. And those are issues that tend to be relevant to people on the coasts and coastal recreation. Yeah. And then we have a series of programs that are like stewardship programs, or beach cleanups, ocean friendly gardens, which is, you know, turning your landscape into a solution to pollution. Ocean friendly restaurants, helping restaurants get rid of plastics. We just launched ocean friendly hotels and a climate action program, which is, you know, restoring coastal ecosystems. And so we build toolkits for all of those programs, blower task forces, another one, we do water quality monitoring. So those are like a suite of everyday programs that are hands-on. This is also why I think the organization is attractive. Like, you can roll up your sleeves and actually do something. Yes. In your community. And so we do those and then we have, you know, advocacy campaigns at the local, state, and federal level on those five issues. And, you know, at any given day, there's about 140 of those that are active. That's incredible. Like, for the, the, for all the stuff that goes, like, you know, you talked about, you know, a bottom-up top-down type of organization that that works in both ways, where you have this headquarters, and you, like you said, you have right now, you have about 80 employees, and then you have this, you know, volunteer network, hundreds of thousands of people. When you, when you talk about when you develop these programs, or you've been developing these programs over the years, are these programs from feedback of projects that are coming in, as well as sort of directions, the organizations from an organizational standpoint, wants to follow? How does that, how does that balance? Yeah. In many ways, the, the chapter network, and we give a, you know, you kind of reference this earlier, we give the chapters a ton of autonomy. Right. So once you're a chartered chapter, you can pick a program or a campaign or an issue. You choose based on what's relevant and important to your issue. You know, there's no reason to be working on a beach access if you don't have a beach access issue in your community. And for sure, beach access is the biggest issue in your community, and you come along and say, Hey, let's talk about the spring protected area, no one's going to care. Right. And so we do give them a lot of autonomy to sort of pick and choose the issues that, you know, are most relevant to them. Right. So that's a part of it. I'm now I'm forgetting the first part of your question that I went on. Well, just like in terms of like, are there have, I guess, one of the things is, can you identify some of the projects that have come in that have really contributed to you? Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry, sorry. So they also experiment. And so there it's like an R&D out in the field, right? So for example, you know, we're trying to figure out how to get rid of all these single-use plastics in communities. And we're trying to pass laws and policies and, you know, sort of our Huntington Beach chapter and our San Diego chapter and our Oahu chapter. We're like, Hey, why are we asking restaurants to get rid of single-use plastics? And so, you know, they started the ocean-friendly restaurants program. Yeah. And then they started trading information and they kind of figured out what worked. Yeah. And we were like, wow, this is cool. I think there's interest in this elsewhere. You know, so we just we just sort of adopted it and nationalized it and standardized it and then, you know, reissued it to the whole network. So a lot of it comes from the from the from the chapter network itself. Love that. And, you know, our chapters, this climate action program, which is restoring habitats, you know, Cape Fear chapter was doing it. They'd collect Christmas trees after Christmas and and then they in the spring, they'd plant them in the dunes. Yeah. And that and the Miami chapters doing dune restoration and folks in up in Maine were doing wetland restoration. And so we were like, and then, you know, we had mangrove planting in Puerto Rico and we're like, hey, a lot of chapters are actually doing coastal restoration work. This is great for resilience. Same thing. Let's aggregate this, start building some tools and build a formal program. So a lot of it comes from from the bot observing what the network's doing. Yeah. And then picking and choosing the ideas that seem to have some momentum and some impact and kind of the same with the advocacy, we see local action happening in different places and we're like, oh, look, a bunch of chapters are working on bag bands right a decade ago. Like, let's let's build a toolkit. Yeah. And redistribute it. And so it really is a kind of we have the fortune of like being able to observe the whole network. And these chapters are out there being social entrepreneurs and we can kind of cherry pick the really good ideas. And then you can see what works and what doesn't. I love that. I love their communicating. You know, we're trying to do as much, you know, connecting the network to communicate so that they're sharing learnings. And we all are at, you know, as we go. You know, I want to make sure we get to it. But we're starting tomorrow. We're having a big 40th anniversary summit. Oh, nice. And that's awesome. Bringing together 400 of our sort of top chapter leaders across the country. You know, for exactly to celebrate 40 years, but also to, you know, learn, share and work across all these great people doing good work. Well, and that's I think that's where this this network comes through. You talk about 200 chapters across the country in other countries sometimes. And each chapter has their own unique set of problems and also a unique set of attributes within the community of different people, different cultures like we even know within the States. There are different cultures within the States, you know, in the different coastlines and so forth. So you probably have some unique problems within each of each of those chapters. But then you can take some of those programs like like the single use plastic bag ban and be like, okay, let's take this. This is actually a really good idea. We'll take the the core of this and we'll give that we'll build the toolkit, we'll give it to this like to Florida from Washington or from San Francisco, give it to Florida, see how they do. Okay, this is these are the challenges that they faced. Let's go back to the toolkit. Let's rejig it a little bit to lessons learned. And then let's let's hit it up to New Jersey and then let's go to Hawaii. And like and so that you have that like you're almost like a data center from the headquarters looking in and and you're you're sort of your your stations, your field stations are the chapters and being able to work with them and having going back and forth and be like, how do we support you? How can we help? You know, what what do you need from us and what can you provide us that we can tell other chapters to do that would that would work? It's it's such a it's it's a good like that's where the the model comes in where it becomes such a good feedback tool, right? Yeah. I love that. And you're right, you know, like what makes sense? I'm at Texas Beach is different than an urban beach in Los Angeles or of each and Oregon or, you know, you know, the beaches of Florida. And so that's part of it, right? They do. They have different cultural norms, different histories, different uses, different impacts. Yeah. You know, and so what makes sense in one place may or may not make in this sense in the other or we can find the common things that make sense all over. Yeah, absolutely. Now over that this 40 years, a lot of things have happened. Obviously, the development of the network and the continued development and the growth of the of the organization, not only from a headquarters to headquarter standpoint, but from a chapter standpoint, would have been some of the major wins that you that you remember over your 29 years working with with Sir Friday that, you know, people should know about Sir Friday that may not they may not realize that you guys helped win or help, you know, get something passed or, you know, help institute certain things that could that people would maybe recognize that didn't know that Sir Friday was a part of. Yeah, no, I thank you for that question. It's funny because we, you know, because of this grassroots nature and this sort of distributing the power, I think, you know, we're always worried that people are like, Oh, they're the like surfers who do the beach cleanups, you know, but there's there's not really a lot of impact beyond that. And so, you know, and we have had some significant impact. A couple things that stand out that I'm really proud of is a few years back, we won a landmark clean water act lawsuit that went all the way to the Supreme Court, and we won and strengthened the Clean Water Act. Again, it started locally with a wastewater treatment issue in the county of Maui on Maui Island in Hawaii, and it had to do with sort of how far the clean water act extends sort of, you know, the reach of the clean water act. And, you know, there was an argument that it was only sort of this quote unquote, like sort of physical connection. And we were talking about a functional connection, right, rejecting sewage into the groundwater, it was seeping up through the ground, and impacting coral reefs, because the, you know, the the island is so porous. Yeah. And we were like, Hey, that, that means that the wastewater treatment is responsible for that pollution, we could see it through like die. Right. And they argue that wasn't because it went through the earth before it came out into the ocean. And so, we won that strength. And they called it the clean water act case of the century. Depundance. Yes. We're proud of that. In 2000, we passed a federal bill called the beach act, okay, standardized and funded water quality monitoring all across the country, recreational water quality monitoring. I like to think of it as the equivalent of like the grades and restaurants. Right. Right. ABC. Yeah. We now know when you go to a restaurant, if they're up to par, yeah, we didn't we should know the same about the ocean. For sure. You know, if I go swimming, I'm going to get sick or not. That's a big that's a big deal. Yeah. We take it for granted, but that's a huge, huge deal. Right. Yeah. So that that would really, you know, water quality monitoring prior to that was spotty in different standards. And, you know, here in our backyard, we stopped this massive toll road project that was going to destroy San Onofre State Park, the fifth most visited state park in California, and home to trussles, arguably the best surf spot in the United States. Gotcha. It was a David and Goliath fight that we won. So we were pretty proud of that. So how did that how did that win happen? Like, you know, you talk about David and Goliath type of fight. You're trying to save a surf spot. You're trying to save a state park that obviously it's like you said, it's the fifth most visited state park. Those are really effective tools to use to say, Hey, this needs to be protected. And this toll road is going to going to destroy that. But you're working against, you know, maybe the government, you're working against, you know, maybe it's a private company that's putting in these toll rules. There's some big, big things to go up against. How, how did you, if you can just say briefly, how did you window that battle? Yeah, it was like a $500 million toll road and huge traffic late in Southern California, like the land of the car. So, you know, and Arnold Schwarzenegger was our governor at the time. He was supportive of the project. We were told, don't take it on because you won't win. But it really is a testament to people power. The toll road authority had all the money. They had the political influence. But we had a huge number of people and worked in a very effective coalition. Parks Commission hearing, most attended in California history. Wow. California Coastal Commission hearing, 2,500 people showed up. They had to move the venue three times to accommodate the crowd. And I called it the Woodstock of surfing conservation. Right. People in costume, it was celebratory music, costumes. And, and then US, the Commerce Department, which is above NOAA, which is above the Coastal Commission, held it an appeal and I think 3,500 people came out. And so, the, the public overwhelmingly opposed the project and sort of that massive movement of people, you know, overcame all of the sort of political and financial advantages that the road had. You know, so not only was it like, I surfed there this morning, it's a magical, beautiful place. And it's got a wetland and it's full of birds and there's endangered species. I mean, it really is a gem. It's a largely intact watershed. So the water's clean after it rains. It's really just a place that shouldn't be spoiled. And so a real, a real testament to what we can do if we all come together. One, and I think this goes to show that the, the chapter model works really well because I'm sure a lot of the abilities to get people out in that, those types of numbers probably started from an internal email being like, Hey, everybody, here's what's going on. You know, this is what's at risk. So here we start off with surf rider people, you know, the, the chapters, the volunteers, and then they get their friends and their people that may not be in the know and then they, all of a sudden they start to come out and droves. I think that's, so that, like from an organizational point of view, when you talk about advocacy, that's where the power, it's, it's in the people, right? It's in the, it's, it's the ability for organizations, whether it's a coalition or not, to be able to get the number of people out that will be able to influence politicians and decision making. And I feel like that gets lost on people. You know, I, right? It absolutely does. And I think, you know, I hear all the time, well, the system is corrupt, the money rules the day, it's the, it's the lobbyists, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, and I'm like, well, that is true to some degree. And I, you know, the, the sort of people who are destructive of the coast have more money and more power. However, we actually have all the people. Right. You know, there's, there's more people who want to visit the beach than people who want to destroy the beach. And so, and we live in a democracy, lucky us. So if we choose to, we actually have a lot of control and agency over what the future looks like. We have the solutions to almost all of these problems. What we lack is public and political will, and political will comes from public will. So I think, you know, if, if more people voice their opinion, more people get involved in local civics, more people vote, we can carry the day on any issue we want. Yeah. That's, that's, yeah, you're right. That's the great motivational words, because I think a lot of people lose hope. And again, it's being isolated from other people who feel the same way. Your words probably rain true with, if I talk to any surf rider supporter or surf rider volunteer to just be like, it's probably the same, they'll probably say the same thing. We can actually do something when we're part of a larger community. And, and let's be honest, your chat, not everybody's a surfer that's part of a surf rider organization, right? Absolutely. No, you know, thank you. That's a good point. The, you know, the origin of the organization was these surfers and, you know, sort of back to that origin story. The way I like to think of it is, you know, in the beginning, it was surfers trying to protect surf spots. Then they sort of connected with community members and it became community members, protecting their communities, right? So if you, if you swim in the ocean, if you've got kids that play at the beach, if you walk your dog out the beach in the morning, you know, or you like to swim, you had a stake in it. So kind of expanded to communities and beyond surfers, you know, and then I liked it, you know, then it became kind of surfers protecting the ocean, you know, and now that we know the role the ocean plays in climate change, it's really surfers and beachgoers and ocean enthusiasts trying to protect the planet. That is, that is, our mission has gone from, you know, Malibu to the globe. Yeah, and it's so, and it happens so fast, too. I think that's what the beauty is, is it starts local and you can, you can affect global as you as you do local. I've, I've been really onto this for a long time. We've been hearing it all our lives, you know, as we grew up, you know, we're, we're like, okay, um, you know, act local, think, think, think was it think global act locally and people after a while, it seemed like people like, no, that doesn't work. That doesn't work. But now it really does. I think it's, it's being a part of the right community and the right people have the experience who have the guidance and like surf writer is that community, you know, or at least one of those major communities in the U.S. and even North America that people know is like, if I need, if I need guidance, I can go there. You talk about the learning tools that you have and the training tools that you have. It's all just, you know, incredible to be able to already have that develop. So when somebody comes in new, they're just like, okay, here we go. Like this is, this is where I can, I can be guided and really help that. And then you can have that, that effective level. Now, you know, surf writers have also had like some major wins locally. Let's talk some of the federal wins with some of the coalitions that you've had. Like, you know, as a surf writer, as an, as an organization, talked about the clean water. It was at the Clean Water Act. Yeah, that was like a Supreme Court win. Yeah, help pass the beach act. Yeah, that's right. Sort of playing defense. The Trump administration wanted, when they were in office, wanted to open all coasts of the United States to offer a thrilling and drilling in federal waters is an executive action through the Bureau of Ocean Energy Management. So that's also like a federal, you know, effort. And so we opposed that. And again, it was interesting, right? Are you going to convince Trump and his administration not to do this? No. But, you know, we organized in, for example, in every community in South Carolina on the coast. Yeah, we made an economic argument. Hey, business owner, restaurant, surf shop, kayak, rental hotel, you've got nothing to gain from these offshore platforms and everything to lose if there's a spill. Why would you support this? And they said, well, we don't. So we started passing resolutions at the local level, which don't have any teeth, but sent a strong signal. Yeah. And then, um, and then all of a sudden, you know, if you're the congressional rep for South Carolina and every coastal community in your district is opposed, it's real hard to support it. Again, we kind of have this, you know, and by the end of the Trump administration, he was actually trying to pull Florida and the Carolinas out of his proposal because he was worried they were making, it was making him vulnerable in the election. Yeah. And that was again, sort of like grassroots organizing at the base, scaling up to the federal level and having influence. It's a huge thing, especially looking at, you know, which administration is in charge federally, state-wise, there's a lot of things to do. I'm sure there's always something to do in the US with so many things going on these days. Environment is, you know, it's a big deal right now, should be a big deal right now in the upcoming or these election talks. But I find it interesting that you don't really hear a lot like in the debates of these coming elections, you haven't really heard a lot about climate change. You haven't really heard a lot about the environment. How do you talk to your like talk to your volunteers, talk to your networks about the importance of this election in term of this federal election, as well as there's a number of different elections going on in November in the US. How do you talk to your your network of the importance of these elections and voting in terms of protecting the environment when the environment isn't really being talked about a lot on a sort of national scale. Yeah, it's a great question. I'm going to hold one time out, I've been sitting in this room and that lights just went off. So let's just come up. There you go. Just give the life back on. No problem. Energy efficiency. Yes. I love it. Yeah. So for one thing, we have to be a little bit careful because we're a 501(c)(3) so like an nonpartisan organization and I'll get to something interesting in a second. And so we can't advocate for specific candidates and we can't be partisan in our actions. So we really are just encouraging people to get out and vote, without picking a side. So if you're a local activist and you're actually advocating for local action at your city, you're paying attention to those city council members. You know about the ones that are with you or not with you and so I think you know our network certainly gets the value of elections and Dow ballot, right? They talk about this. Don't just vote for the president, vote for your federal rep, state reps, down to your city council and your school board and I really want to emphasize that is because those local decision makers have a lot of power. 100%. You know, you think about something like the Clean Water Act, you know, which regulates water pollution. We want to have things fishable and swimable. Well, the Clean Water Act on paper in Washington, D.C. does nothing but set standards. And then it's the behavior in your town, right? It's that business polluting water out of their factory. You know, our people are hosing off their driveways and contributing to urban runoff. Does the car wash treat its water? So, you know, at the end of the day, the water quality in your town is a cumulative impact of all these little things that are happening, not the Clean Water Act. That's a piece of paper. 100%. So, yeah, so we're encouraging everyone to vote. You know, the largest party in America today is the did not vote party. It's true, which is crazy to hear people not voting than voting for any of the ones that are the other. Yeah. You know, and again, you know, it's arguably a relatively easy action to take. Yep. Harder in some places than others. Yep. But, you know, so we just actually launched to get out the vote campaign yesterday. And we partnered up with another organization called Protect Our Winters. Oh, okay. And Protect Our Winters is the winter and snow athletes. So, it's sort of like the surf rider of the mountains or the snow. Gotcha. You know, and they're really focused on the impacts of climate change. Yeah. Shortening winners, you know, and their, their favorite activity is at risk. Yeah. But like surf rider, you know, they understand that, you know, snowboarding and skiing is a luxury. But the impacts of climate change are serious for the globe. They're just using sort of their passion. Yep. Yeah. Eight, two. And so, we partnered with them to say, Hey, look, this is a really important election. Get out there and vote. You know, and we know make a plan to vote. That increases people's voting. Yep. You know, and the other thing is, get your friends to vote. You know, those guys have a saying that says, friends don't let friends not vote. So, yeah, 100% Hey, did you vote? Let's make sure you voted. Especially for that, that disenfranchised friends or those disenfranchised friends where they're just like, Oh, it'll never make a difference. It'll never make a difference. Like you start making a difference when you get more and more people to vote. And you know, whichever way they decide to vote, that's when you make a difference. And you, you, you tell the people who, you know, maybe in power now that you may not like, you know, no, I don't like what you did or I don't like what you didn't do. And, and, and I saw I'm gonna vote for the candidate that does, you know, and I think that's what's, that's what's important, you know, is to, is to pay attention. I think a lot of those, those users, you mentioned the recreational users of, you know, skiing and snowboarding and, and surfing in the ocean and so forth. You know what you want because it affects you personally. And, and so I think you're right that you guys are, are knowledgeable on, on what the issues that are important to, to each user. And then you, you know, just let them know, like, you know, what we, what we need to vote for. And I think that's really important. And, you know, we, you know, climate change is rearing its ugly head in the last few years, especially, you know, we're absolutely, even this year, you know, in Florida, where category three hurricane followed a category for hurricane in the Tampa region and the Gulf States. And a lot of damage and things like that. So, you know, 40 years of, of great work and continuing to try and help, you know, not only the people that part of your, your volunteer network and your chapters, but also the country and the, and the globe. What is, is surf right or focused on in terms of the, the, the consequences of climate change that we've been seeing and how to fight climate change, as well as other matters, you know, talking about plastic pollution, talking about water quality, which they're all related, you know, in some way, which makes it even more complex. So where do you see the organization as you lead it going through over the next, like say, 10 years? Yeah, you know, we, it's a good thing, I think that we're like finding ourselves at the strongest point we've ever been as an organization, because I think the challenges are bigger than ever. So, you know, 40 years ago, we were cleaning beaches, thinking trash, plastic pollution was a local problem. Now we know it's a global ocean problem and basically a global problem, right? It's in the atmosphere in us. And same with climate change 40 years ago, price should have been, but wasn't a major topic. And, you know, I think I read a stat that, that, you know, 70% of Americans have felt some impact of climate change, fires, flooding, hurricanes, storms. And so we're, you know, used to say climate change is coming. And now we know climate change is here. Yeah. So I think there's a, that's part of the reason why there's a much like wider recognition. Yeah, so we definitely face some big problems. I'm somewhat optimistic about them because we, we can solve all of them. We kind of, I think, you know, for the most part, we have the solutions. We just need to like build the public well. You know, so we're doing a, you know, our focus on climate change is really about the coasts and focused on using the coast as a solution through nature-based solutions and coastal restoration. Blue carbon or coastlines can suck a lot of carbon out of the atmosphere and buffer us from the worst impacts of storms by building natural habitats. You know, mangroves and wetlands and dunes are great storm buffers. Absolutely. And, and on the other side of it, we're really trying to work with communities to figure out how to adapt, right? The sea level rise is coming no matter what we do. And we can either wait in armor to the coast and see a lot of disaster or we can start figuring out how to adapt for the sea level rise that's coming. So those are our really big focus areas for, for climate change. I think that, you know, manager tree, coastal adaptation thing is in its infancy really and we get on top of that. So we've got some good demonstration projects we're working on to show what that can look like. The best one is surface point up in Ventura. You know, if people Google Ventura, sea street, manager tree, they'll just see a beautiful coastline that's been moved back from the coast, you know, from the ocean in erosion. You know, and then we're really trying to scale up our plastic pollution work. There's a global treaty right now to reduce plastic pollution. And we're working with our affiliates and other coalition partners to try to get the US and other nations to, you know, come up with a kind of like climate change, some realistic goals to eliminate plastic pollution. And another trend that's interesting, I feel like, is there's a real movement towards holding these big businesses accountable. The last week, we sued Exxon. Look, let me just drop it. You know, we just sued them. You know, just last week, we just decided to do that. That's huge. Yeah, it is. So we sued Exxon for sort of disingenuous policies around recycling, right? This is a connection between ocean and climate. Yeah, plastics, a fossil fuel. Yeah, it's I think it accounts for what 30% of fossil fuel pollution on the increase. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, as the number one supplier of the base materials for plastic pollution, they've been spending billions of dollars trying to convince us recycling works. And it doesn't. We're still at, you know, five, six percent recycling. Yeah. And so, you know, you're seeing that you're seeing lawsuits against major fossil fuel companies for the impacts of climate change. You know, so that and we're passing these extended producer responsibility, which is, you know, producer pays bills. Yes. Plastic pollution. So there's a movement towards corporate accountability for these impacts. And I think that's appropriate. Yep. And, you know, these major manufacturers of plastic oil and gas can choose to be responsible or they're going to have to pay. Yeah. Yeah, especially with the amount of sort of disinformation they've been putting out and confusion they've been putting out over the last, God knows how many decades, you know, right? Like we're not talking about just like a social media campaign that happened yesterday. This has been ongoing and has been a huge impediment to climate action for decades and something that we, you know, could have been installed a while ago, but they put corporate greed over over and profits over over action. And they could have been just as heralded for the action that they took back in the day. So I'm glad that there, you know, the surf writers part of that. I'm glad that you're able to do that. And I think we're going to need to see that more in the future as well with different companies to just be like, look, you can't just start confusing the people and putting us against each other of trying to do some good because that's sort of what happened. I mean, yeah, playing the same game, you know, that, you know, the big tobacco was ultimately held accountable for billions of dollars. And, you know, that money was used to significantly reduce smoking rates. So it's a good case study on what could happen to the polluters of the world. Yeah. And I mean, let's be honest that those campaigns, those tobacco campaigns, like, we're now able, we see a lot of places where you can't smoke inside. And I mean, remember when we grew up where you had like smoking and non-smoking sections in the same place, which was like, you think about it now, you're like, that's just ridiculous. On the airplane, on the airplane, yeah. I grew to Germany in college and there was one row in front of the smoking section on airplanes. Yes. It's insane to think about, but again, it takes a lot of people to get together and focus in on certain aspects. And that's what you're able to do is what you've been able to do for the last 40 years. You're continuing to be able to do for the next 40 years and beyond. I really like what surf riders have done. And so it's been a pleasure, a chat to have you on and talk about these accolades. I always like to do this, especially with surf rider, if, you know, and get our audience involved, if somebody wants to become a volunteer at surf rider, how would you recommend they go about it? Yeah, if you go to volunteer.surfrider.org, you can either sign up for your local chapter or actually see what volunteer activities are taking place. Perfect. This weekend probably would be one of the only weekends of the year where there's not a lot going on because they're all going to be in Long Beach with me. Yes, that's right. It's celebrating. But almost every other weekend of the year, there's something going on out there. And so if you go to our website at surfrider.org, you can sort of zoom in and join your local chapter, find out what's going on locally. Awesome. And one thing I forgot to ask, you said tomorrow is the beginning of the celebrations. 400 volunteer leaders are coming in. What can people expect from those celebrations and bringing people on and team building and so forth? Yeah, I mean, this is really about strengthening and energizing this incredible network of people that are doing all this great work. So we've got some great inspirational speakers, a lot of training about organizing in campaigns. And we're going to have a good time doing it too. I love it. And to be honest, I give a lot of advice for people who want to be marine biologists and get into marine conservation. I feel like volunteering, you know, with organizations like surfrider is a huge benefit because you learn so much. Like you said, you get training, you get to build this network, you get to do some great things. So it motivates you even more to do even more later on. Plus it kind of shapes like Chad, even you yourself, you didn't do your PhD until, you know, what was it? Like 15 years you started ago? Was that when you? Yeah, yeah, I finished in 2012 and I probably started in 2008. But yeah, I've been a spreader for a decade before I started it. Exactly. So it kind of shapes where you where you think you can impact the world in terms of academically as well as through conservation. So I highly recommend people who are early career scientists looking for experience and sometimes right in your backyard, you don't have to go across the world and pay thousands of dollars to get experience for two weeks. You can do work and continue that work throughout your career as a volunteer. So I highly recommend that. I'll put that up the volunteer.surphrider.org in the show notes in the description so that people can sign up for that and fuel your passion more to do more for the ocean and the coastlines and water quality. Chad, thank you so much for joining me. Congratulations on 40 years looking forward to another 40 and enjoy the festivities and training and all the wonderful stuff in the next couple of days. Hey, thanks for having me back, Andrew. It's always a lot of fun. So I appreciate it. You bet. Thank you. Thank you, Chad, for joining us here once again on how to protect the ocean podcast. Really appreciate you sharing all the wonderful stories of Surphrider over the last 40 years. Congratulations on the 40th anniversary of Surphrider, a great organization that uses its volunteers as its method to change policy, to create policy, to do so many great things. Sue the government when they're not acting properly, create the beach act, just do so many more things. Beach cleanups, getting people involved, listening to volunteers, training volunteers, and building that chapter network to 200 chapters, over 100,000 volunteers, worldwide doing amazing things. And you don't have to be a surfer to be a part of this wonderful organization. And you can also watch them on their website. I'm going to put all the links down in the description below or in the show notes. You can check it out, but follow Surphrider in all the things that they do. They have a lot of different chapters. They care about their volunteers, and they just are a great organization. For the last 40 years, they've done some amazing things, and some of them are too much to count. But they've done some great things from an advocacy role, from a policy role, from an action, like beach cleanup and water quality testing role. It's just so many different ways that you can get involved, and so many ways that you can watch what they do, and it's such a great opportunity to feel like you're part of a community and not by yourself when you want to do conservation. So think about Surphrider next time you want to do something good for the planet. And I just want to say thanks to Chad for all the work that he's done over the last 29 years, over the last 10 as CEO, and then in the future, all the work, the great work that he's going to be doing with a wonderful staff of 80 people, a wonderful 200 chapters and amazing 100,000 volunteers and growing. So we want to see that organization grow. Look, they're not paying me to do this. I just think it's such a great opportunity. We don't get these chances a lot to be able to build a network like this, to be a part of a group like this, and to have a voice and to be able to actually affect change. Like think about mobilizing 2,500 people to a public meeting where the government has to actually change the venue three times to accommodate the amount of people. Think about that as one voice. The power of that as one voice and the big thing here, the big message just in terms of its timeliness, it's almost time to vote in the US. If you haven't registered to vote, register to vote today, it doesn't matter who you vote for, but you have power in voting. You want to have that power, you want to be able to vote, you want to be able to have a say for your country, you want to be able to do something, especially if you're part of a democratic society. If you need more information on what the big issues are, you can go to the surf rider organization website, I'll put in the link below, and also just talk to your local representatives, talk to your state representatives and your federal representatives, and find out where you can vote, how you can vote, and who you can vote for, and do that today, register today. So thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. I want to just, it's just amazing to be able to connect with you. If you want to connect with me, you can do so by DM me on Instagram at how to protect the ocean. You can also comment in the description or just down below in the YouTube video. Also, you can watch the video on Spotify and give me a comment there, but I'm always available in any capacity that you just heard, always looking forward to hearing you because at the beginning of a conversation, I'd love to hear your conversation and your conservation efforts. So thank you again for joining me on today's episode of the how to protect the ocean podcast. I'm your host, Andrew Lewin. Have a great day. We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.
