Grace Chapel Bible Ministries

Revelation 002 the Rapture

There are four major views on the Rapture of the Church. Pretrib, Midtrib, post trib and prewrath. While opponents in different theological camps will agree on aspects of the rapture, there are differing views which they certainly disagree, one being the timing of the rapture.

Duration:: 1h 40m
Broadcast on:: 27 Oct 2024
Audio Format:: other

[ Inaudible ] [ Inaudible ] I think we could probably all slide. Here, why don't we all slide down one? I'll see here. Well, I'm not that there because I can't see. Yeah, and then Jeline can come here and see if we're doing it. [ Inaudible ] Are you wanting to sit there? No, I'm sitting here. You can sit there. All right, y'all. That's just fun. [ Inaudible ] Oh, you're going to come on here. [ Inaudible ] Yours is over there and there, love. I know, but it doesn't have this one. Well, don't worry about that one. Grab the ones that she's out over there. [ Inaudible ] All right. [ Inaudible ] Oh, see, I'm confused. Don't worry about that. Okay. Whatever. [ Inaudible ] I don't understand it. All right. [ Inaudible ] Bob, you want to have a sheet or do you want a whole sheet? Well, a whole sheet. I can put notes. [ Inaudible ] That's quite all right. [ Inaudible ] I didn't know you didn't finish this. Oh, I didn't know I didn't finish this. All right. But I didn't finish this. Keep going. Okay. Go ahead, keep going. Yeah, then give those guys a whole sheet so they can have it if you will, please. [ Inaudible ] Oh, I think we all are on 17. What do you think? Hard dog. [ Inaudible ] Yeah. And I don't have a pen. I like everything else. Yeah. Take one of these over here. I think Amanda has yours. Oh. Do you have yours? Do you need one of these? All right. Do you have yours, darling? Mine? Yeah, I have mine. I guess the boys are coming here. Okay. So I'm going to lay back here. All right. All right. We got prayers. We got prayers over there. Ready on the right? I don't think I can. My bad. Just an update. It's supposed to be. It thinks a lot of this. It is. It is. [ Inaudible ] It's not as kidney. Liver. Liver. Because we're going in for a biopsy. Oh. See if that is. Thank God. I don't know when that's going to take place. He's starting to think that's. The part of the problem is. Issues. It's delivering. Are they just trying to check things or anything? He's going through the visits. Check in. You've got to see that. Not yet. They're working on getting that for you. Okay. How's this period? Is he operating? I don't know. I think we should. Let's see. [ Inaudible ] Did I tell him? I told Josh he didn't come here. If he wanted to go anywhere. I think they need to come here too. They're not going anywhere. Look, to church here. I think they're watching it. Maybe. But. Yeah. Well, I don't know. Well, we're streaming. I'm not streaming now. I'm not supposed to be. I'm not. I'll just leave it off. [ Inaudible ] But anyway. I can if you're looking in. He probably is. Okay. Keep them. Yeah. It's. I think. Yeah. Let's see. Keep them going. Mom? Yeah. I'm having a. [ Inaudible ] What day is that? Thursday. So. I'm having it done on a whole body. How you getting. How you getting. Down. How you getting there? Yeah. Kathy. What did she get? Yeah. Yeah. She. I think she. Okay. Okay. There. There. There is a praise. We'll keep that now. There's a praise. Mike's working. Mike's really busy. My brother. Mike. He's extremely busy. And that's a good thing. Mike's busy. We're busy. I guess a storm brought in a lot of busyness. So that's. That's. That's a praise. A lot of gunners still doing good at work. You know. Folks still like having him around. He's kind of a joy don't. That's kind of a neat thing. I'll pick that up. How you doing, Bec? Good. All right. All right. All right. We will keep that prayer. All those prayers for Tim. Last I heard he could be covering well. That's. That's also a good. Good thing. All right. By way of. Announcement sometime next month. First or second week would have our upstate Bible challenge. Be looking for be. I will go do it, Genesis. How's that sound? We'll do the whole entire book of Genesis. We've been through it. So we went through it. We'll be finished up with the survey through the Bible through Genesis. We'll probably be on into the prophets by then. But we'll be studying Genesis. We'll be for the upstate Bible challenge when it's going to be announced. And just a quick up. Just a little thing. We'll talk offline on that and see you on that other church business. Don't we keep asking about it? Okay. Next month. Thank you for reminding. We'll go have some categories for. Jolene. Pick it. Okay. From her book. Is she still doing a book? From her book. You come up with the questions from her book that we'll put on as a category for her. All right. Let's get with it. Who's got Psalm 17 this morning? I've got it. All right then. I like it. Go for it. I was just looking at all the Lord's. I guess there's more. What song? Psalm 17. Prayer of David. You're just called the Lord if he to my pride. If you're to my prayer, which is not from deceitful lips. Let my judgment come forth from your presence. Let your eyes look with equity. You have tried my heart. You have visited me by night. You have tested me and you find nothing. I have purpose that my mouth will not transgress. For the deeds of men by the word of your lips. I have kept from the paths of the violent. My steps have held fast to your paths. My feet have not slipped. I have called upon you for you will answer me, O God. And climb your ear to me. Hear my speech. Wondrously show your loving kindness. O Savior of those who take refuge at your right hand. From those who rise up against them. Keep me as the apple of the eye. Hide me in the shadow of your wings. From the wicked who disfoil me. My deadly enemies who surround me. They have closed their unfeeling heart with their mouth. They speak proudly. They have now surrounded us in our steps. They set their eyes to cast us down to the ground. He is like a lion that is eager to tear. And as a young lion lurking in hiding places. Arise, O Lord. Confront him. Bring him low. Deliver my soul from the wicked with your sword. From men with your hand, O Lord. From men of the world whose portion is in this light and whose belly you feel with your treasure. They are satisfied with children. And leave their abundance to their babes. As for me, I shall behold your face in righteousness. I will be satisfied with your likeness when I await. Amen. Amen. Our opening hymn this morning will be Ankenet B. And let us rise and remain risen for the opening prayer. Other words come down. Yes, words be on screen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. Amen. We pray. Father in Heaven, we thank you for this day. We thank your Father for your grace, your mercy, your kindness. We pray this morning. We pray for Ben and for Robin. We pray heavily Father that you continue to watch over them. We pray heavily Father that as Ben goes and gets checked out. We pray heavily Father that the doctors will, that whatever is is ailing that it will be discovered and that it may be dealt with. We pray for that. We pray for his help made Robin. We pray for encouragement of them. And we pray heavily Father for Mom as she's going in for her test coming up Thursday. We pray also heavily Father that test again that we also pray for her wellness and for the doctors skill and teaching things that might be caught early. We thank you, Heavenly Father, for the blessings of living where we are. We continue to pray for those that are hurting brothers and sisters in North Carolina. Up in Tennessee, we pray heavily Father that quickly the things will, it's going to be a while, Heavenly Father, but you be with those people. And I ask Heavenly Father for help for them and continue to be with the families that are dislocated now in that area. And some of them are really grieving and the loss of loved ones. I ask that you be with and comfort them during this time. Open up our hearts this morning for the study of your Word. And may what we learned this morning may be accurate, may be a source of challenge as we continue to grow in grace and the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, in whose name we pray. Amen. All right. All right. We started with Revelation, basically we had an introduction earlier than that, but we have a Revelation now. We started out last week, Revelation 1-1. We start out with the first verse, the Revelation, the Apoclupsus of Yaisu Christu of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his bond service of things which must soon take place. And he said and communicated by his angels to his bond servant John, who are the dooloy, the doulas, the slaves of Jesus Christ. That would be anyone who has changed their allegiance. All of us, we talked earlier that all of us are slaves to something. We are none of us are our independent agents. We are either under the dictates of our flesh, which by the way often allies with the unseen realm to let you say everything that's opposition of the Lord, opposition of his will, his plan, his purpose. So we are either under slave of our own flesh and/or this cosmic system, Satan. Someone's got their strings on us. And our worst position is to think that we're not. So we're going to be slaves. We might as well be slaves for the right reason. And that reason or to the right person. And that right person is the Lord Jesus Christ. Remember that the Pharisees were deemed as what is a brood of vipers, offspring of vipers. And remember that Satan is the serpent of old. So once again, we have changed at one point. We have changed our legions. We have changed our legions over to following the Lord Jesus Christ. We are Christ followers. And I like to say Christ followers. It does differentiate a different between people who call themselves. I would like to, I would like to inform myself as a Christ follower than a Christian. Because there are many that say that they are Christians. But they are, they're walking darkness. Certainly they are not Christ followers. I like to describe myself as one who's, you know, and even when I say it. Like, if I say to you, I'm a Christ follower. If I say it out loud, then I better show it. Otherwise I show myself to be a hypocrite. You know, but a Christian, I does a Christian identify himself or herself. Well, I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and therefore I'm safe. Oh, well, I'm fine. But are you a Christ follower? Have you picked up your cross and are you following him? So the book of Revelation is our letter. It's a letter to us. It's not a letter to a lost world. It's not a letter to slaves to somebody else. It's a slaves to the Lord Jesus Christ, the dude, dude, boy there. And today we're going to talk a little bit. I have to hit this subject somewhere along the line. And it is the subject of the Raptor of the Church. It's a controversial issue. It has different, it has different views. And sadly to say that it sets itself up for anger, for controversy, and it shouldn't be. I said it long time ago and this and why are we coming into the study of the Raptor so soon? We need to understand where we're going. We need to know from what perspective, from what we'd say hermeneutics, that is interpretation. That is what position? What is your view of going in? Let me give you an example. Let's just say we're talking about the Raptor. First of all, the Raptor is the exonostasis, the Raptor Resurrection. And that is the fact that at some point that we are, as a church, church-age believers, that we are going to leave this world, that Christ is going to come back and we are going to meet the Lord in the air. Let's look at 1 Thessalonians 4.13. And whoever picks up that can go ahead and start reading. First Thessalonians, yes. We'll start with 4.13, go to 18, for me, Michael. But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this, we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. The Lord himself will descend from the heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be called up together with him in the clouds. To meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these orders. Probably the most common rapture verse that we have in the Bible. We do have another one, 1 Corinthians 1550, if we can turn there. 1 Corinthians 1550, and I've got this one already there. Now I say this brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the inherit imperishable. Behold, I tell you a mystery. We will not, sorry about that. Behold, I tell you a mystery that we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, for the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on in perishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when the perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, "Death is flawed up victory. O death, where is that victory? O death, where is your sting?" So both of these passages pretty much tell us about the rapture of the church. Again, we can designate it as rapture. And that alone is harpazzo, and it means to be snatched away. Paul talks about the twinkling of the eye here, that we are going to be transformed and taken up. And we can also call this for the Church, an ex-anastasis. Ex being out from, and anastasis means to be the resurrection. So we can also call the rapture exit revelation. There's no problem with saying that the rapture, people say, "Well, the rapture is not in the Bible." Neither is the Trinity, neither are other words. This is a doctoral put together, and ex-anastasis is harpazzo is. So these we develop our doctrine from. So the resurrection of the body is going to happen just as the Bible. And just as the Bible says, just as the Scriptures written, and we can agree on this. There's no argument that there is coming a time. There's coming a place and time when we, or shall I say, time when we as a church should be taken up. And that's going to be on God's program. That's going to be when the Lord's going to take us out of this world and receive us to himself. The question is when? The controversy is when? And yes, it is a big controversy. So this should not be, you know, after all, let me explain this. There's doctrine, and there's dogma, doctrine and dogma. Doctrine is a theological understanding of the truth. It's the working out. It's doctrine requires a hermeneutics. That means interpretation. You're going to have, in doctrine, you're going to have different pastors who teach different things. And this may bother us sometimes because I think we've all asked the question. How do I believe? This religion believes this and this religion believes this. That one believes this. The teacher believes this and they have a different hermeneutics. It's not that, listen, it's not to the degree that we should say, well, they're heretics unless they are heretics. Remember what Paul says? He says anybody teaches a different, a different gospel. They should be ran out. So doctrine is the theological we grew up with. We grew up spiritually under a teacher that caught doctrine dogmatically. Doctrine upon doctrine, precept upon precept. But can that doctrine be tweaked? Yes, it can. Let me describe dogma for a minute. Dogmat is where we get the word dogmatic. Dogmat, and we've talked about this before, my dogmatic means that hills, you're going to have to die on. My friend Mark, whom I never met. I will say there's only a few hills that I have, you know, that I would die on. A few hills. That means something you can stand up, you can say, like the doctrine of salvation, that the Lord Jesus Christ provides eternal life for anyone that trusts in Him for it. It's simple to understand. It comes from scripture for, probably most quoted verse in the Bible. God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, whoever believed us in Him, trust in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life. It's simple, right? Very simple. Dogmatic, the dogmatic statement of fact is easy to understand. A child, totally you can understand it, right? A child can understand it. And it's meant to be understood simply. It's meant to be understood in its basic form because it's so important. It's so important. So there's only a few things that we could really outline that these are dogmatic statement effects. Doctrine can be tweaked. Doctrine can be tweaked. I can look at something and the kernels, the kernels tweaked his own doctrine. It ain't that right? He has realized, well, I used to teach this. I don't teach this anymore. Wasn't it right then? Well, occupational, here's the occupational hazard of being a pastor and being a student, which you all should be. As you study, intently, the Word of God, you're going to change. You're going to take things for truth until the Bible, I'm not saying, man, I'm saying the Bible directs your heart to believe a different way. Okay? And that's setting up for this. So you've got, and I've said this earlier, when it came to the Rapture of the Church. You've got two views. You've got two excellent teachers. Two of them that I love. Both of them ought to be with the Lord now. One, Chuck Messler. You've got the other, Dr. Walter Martin. Love them both. But they were 180 degrees when it came to the Rapture of the Church. Chuck Messler, pre-trib Rapture. Walter Martin was a post-trib. Certainly both of them know the truth by now. And so do you pick a doctrine and throw the other guy out and say he's a heretic? No, not at all. It's no doctrine, it's their hermeneutics. They both can be wrong. But they can't both be right. And this is where we're coming with, so the subject Rapture could be left out of the discussion of the last things as the topology that we're talking about altogether. But once again, the position, and I have to make clear what position I'm taking so that you know where we're going. And through it, and I'll leave it with this. Could I change my mind at the end of Revelation? Absolutely, I've changed my mind about a lot of things going through the Book of Hebrews. You know, it's for you being a part of the Church to pray, not only for me, but for each other, to pray for clarity, for understanding. Alright, so let's look at the, let me get set up here. Let me, let's look at the different positions that we had as far as, no, first of all, we got the pre-trip Rapture view. If your dispensation is as, as I grew up to be, this would be the primary teaching, this would be the teaching, this is what you've stood on. And the pre-trip Rapture, and listen, I'm going to go quickly through these. I'm not going to expound so deeply on these that it's, that we're going to make a big study on. But as we go through, I'm going to review these, these four positions. And as we go through the study of eschatology, that's where we're going to come into, why do I believe in the position that I'm taking. Pre-trip Rapture taken, mostly by the dispensationalist. It is argued that, it is argued by some that pre-trip Rapture-ism did not exist prior to the 1800s. The father, I would say, the father of dispensationalism, and as some people would say, would be Darby, who, who came up with this. I don't know how to study them, I don't have nothing wrong to say about them. So the dispensationalist would argue that it was long before that, the church fathers taught about this. But that's one thing we may investigate as we go along. Pre-trip Rapture, first of all, pre-trip Rapture believes that there is a seven-year tribulation. Listen, all of these believe that there's a seven-year tribulation. The question is going to be, is it tribulation, or is it going to be deemed that Daniel 73, we're going to talk about that. But there's seven, let's just say, there's seven years to complete this age. See, to complete the age of Israel before we're going into the millennial reign. At this point, I will call it the seven-year, seven years. The dispensations will call, the dispensationalist calls the entire seven years the tribulation. Okay, we'll get more into that later. And that, in this, and that's what we have up here, so the entire, and the entire seven years is what they would call, get my mouse over where I need it to be. There we go. Okay, so you have the seven years right here, they call it the day of the Lord. Okay, we're going to have to, we're going to have to define our terms on this. I don't know if we'll have time to define all these terms today, but the day of the Lord will have to define that. But the dispensationalists will call the seven years, the entire seven years, the day of the Lord. And they will agree, all of the four views will agree that the rapture will happen before the day of the Lord. Okay, it will happen prior to the day of the Lord. Just real quick, just previous for things that come, the day of the Lord is not Sunday. The day of the Lord is not the seventh day Saturday. The day of the Lord is when the Lord comes back to bring judgment. Is that the great and terrible day? That is the great and terrible day, has to find by Joel. If we get there, that's what we'll talk about here in a little bit later. That is the day of the Lord. I'm glad I've defined that earlier, early in this. So you have the, so you have here the day of the Lord preceded by the rapture of the church. That the Lord is not going to bring judgment before the rapture church. Now, the dispensations believe that the entire seven years is the day of the Lord. Okay, and that the rapture will take place sometime prior to the seven years. Okay, let's see, a few things brought up here. Okay, I meant to do them one at a time. But notes on this concerning the pre-trip rapture. The entire seven years is regarded as the day of the Lord. Number one, number two, it's imminent. That there are no signs. That there are no signs. There's no signs and wonders. Nothing is imminent. That the day of the Lord or that the rapture could happen today. Before we get out about this class, we could leave. There's no signs that's connected with the rapture of the church. Number three, it could happen at any moment. Number four, refers to the seven years as a tribulation. In this case, the seven years is the tribulation. Okay, again, we're going to have to look at the term for tribulation. What does tribulation mean? And does the Bible address the seven years as tribulation? Number five, it happens prior to the last seven years. And number six, the church will not go through it. The church will not go through any part of the tribulation. Okay, that's a pre-tribulation, that's a pre-trib rapture held by dispensations. Okay, number two, okay, post-trib. Post-trib, I mentioned a little bit earlier that Walter Martin, Dr. Walter Martin is going to be at the Lord. He knows better now, this season. Post-trib, and Walter Martin certainly is what, and I saw a thing on Walter Martin, and he listened. And Walter Martin had all this scripture, and that's what we have to go by, the Bible. And Walter Martin, we may disagree with him and why. But it's hermeneutics, this interpretation, he said, this is what we got, and he brings it to the Bible. So, for the post-tribbers, the day of the Lord is a literal 24-hour period, it's a 24-hour day. And that the rapture will take place at the very end of the seven years. Okay, there is a midpoint to all these as well. And that's what Jesus addresses in Matthew 24, and this is the abomination of desolation. I had to ask you what the deal was. I think about two, I got this off the website, it's Day of the Lord. Okay, I'll tell you what does that say? Donald, in Donald, Day of the Lord. Okay, so 24-hour day of the Lord is right before the... or the rapture happens at the very end, and then you have the Day of the Lord, which is a literal 24-hours. Okay, number one, for this, the Day of the Lord is a literal 24-hours. It will be preceded by signs and wonders. It will lead up to signs and wonders, whereas pre-trib rapture, just to say no signs, it's imminent. For the post-trib, there are signs and wonders leading up to, we will know and we'll be ready. We'll be looking up for it. Again, we'll look at the verses. One of the verses is that when these things happen, look up because your redemption is near. Three, or see, the church will go through the entire seven years. If you're a post-tribber, you're coming into the post-trib. Cory Jimbrilin, I believe, was a post-tribber. Mommy, you know, Cory Jimbrilin. Yeah, she was. And her argument is the fact that if we think in that we're going to be out of here before the tribulation, we're not... our mentality, our soul, we're not going to be ready. We're not going to have our loins going up. If we're sitting back listening, I say, "Well, I'm not going to worry about it because the rapture is going to happen. I'm not going to see the enterprise. I'm not going to go through all that." Then we're not going to be ready. My argument used to be, "Well, we need to be ready for every circumstance." But as a Marine, if I'm looking at the hill and I know we're going into combat, there's a certain mentality, there's a certain girding up my roins. Get my gear and get my knowing that I would like to know that, you know, what's ahead of me on that. So back and forth with that. So that's... the church will go through the entire thing. Okay, number three is the mid-trib. And the mid-trib is that we're going to be out here before the desolation abomination, which is the antichrist at the three and a half years into the tribulation, into the seven-year period, where he is going to establish where he's going to... where he's going to go into the... he's going to desecrate the temple, and he's going to save himself up as God on the man and you're going to worship me. And that's going to happen. And the mid-tribber say that the day of the Lord is the last three and a half years. Remember, here's the three differences. Now you've got pre-trib that all of the seven years is the day of the Lord. You've got the post-trib, which is 24-hour period, is the day of the Lord, which is at the end. And then you've got... the mid-tribbers are three and a half years. Three and a half years is the day of the Lord. That's what... and it's basically hell on earth. It's hell on earth. Now, points of doctrine on this. The last three and a half years is day of the Lord, B. The rapture takes place prior to the desolation of abomination of book by Jesus in Matthew 24. That the rapture of the church will take place prior to this... to the antichrist coming upon the scene. And it is preceded by four cast of events. We see that in Matthew 24. There will be wars and rumors of war, but earthquakes and these are birth pangs, but the time is not yet come. And let's see if we've got no one on there. For the tribulation would be... the church... you're saying the church will be in the first three years? The church, yes. Thank you for that. The church will be in... yeah. Point these. Point be done. The church will experience first in the first half of the tribulation. They will be in part of the tribulation and halfway through they will be out. Okay? That's the mid-trip belief. That is the mid-trip belief. Okay? And once again, there are scholars that will believe all of that. And they're not going... and the scholars are... they will... they will debate back and forth, please. You know, I had this talk with Mark just to give you some reading. Go ahead, please. Thank you. I have a cup of coffee here. It's cold, but that's it. With doctrine and with dogma, you have a perspective that you've been... has been learned. You've been under a teaching. You've been under a dispensational teaching. You're right. In your upbringing. So you have a dispensational view. Mark, you've never heard of it. You know. Presbyterian. Brett, I can't get more out of it. Right? So... Just the thought of... so when you have a mid-trip, they've been under the... not necessarily some of this. Some of this... we allow the Lord to help us discover things. But others just being directly under the teacher will come up and they'll be pre-trip, post-trip. Only because that's what they've been taught all their life. And that's just the... it's... yeah. It's... it's a problem. The people... I don't know, it's not a problem, I guess. I mean, this isn't here. But... people can be misguided. They can be. The problem that we do have is this comes with denominationalism. It also comes with traditions. When... and here's the problem. Is that when you leave your Bible behind and you stand on your doctrine, your theology, your traditions without the Bible. You need... people will respect you when you open up your Bible and say, "This is what the Bible says." More so than what your teacher says. You know, it's hard to... because your teacher has gone over this, he has a theological or a doctrinal viewpoint. Why do you believe the way you believe? Because your teacher says this or because the Bible says this. Okay? It's the same thing with books when you're reading a theological book. No... the author. I love... I love John McArthur. I love reading John McArthur. I love reading R.C. Skoll, other people. They are Calvinists. I have to know what their position is before I read the book. That way I can have my filters on. You know, I don't believe in all of Calvinistic doctrine. But I can get... I can learn a lot. Pentecostal. Do you know Andrew Murray is a Pentecostal? But yet, he is one of my favorite authors. And so knowing these positions. But, you know, Mark, I'm sure I could... Mark in the eye and say, "Mark, are you a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ?" Or, "Are you going to heaven or why?" and he would give me a good gospel message. They... yeah. Listen to R.C. and that's what Mark, when I mention R.C. He was like, "You know he's like one of the most Calvinistic." I was like, "I know." I said, "But if you listen to him, listen to his lectures, listen to his teaching, he teaches him a passion, and his teaching truth." You know, I haven't... I haven't listened to anything that I disagree with, I should say. And I haven't listened to all the hours available. But... we'll all come back to a commonality of truth. Study your Bible. Let the Bible speak. I am so thankful for the pastor that I had to teach. You come to the point where now you have... once you've grown out for someone who is new in the faith, I would say, stick with one teacher. We're going to be Calvinist, stick with the Calvinist. You'll be dispensation, stick with the dispensation. Stick with one teacher. Build. But as long as they're teaching the Bible, read the Bible, study the Bible, because what you're going to do is you're going to grow up in Scripture. And you're going to have filters. And you're going to finally get to a point where you're going to start questioning things that you may have. Always alone and say, "How can I stand on this?" You know, it becomes... what does this say? How do I... because the Bible does not contradict itself. So where there is a parent... become biblical. Become biblical. Become biblical. Love. Love your teacher. Pray for your preacher. But be good Bereans. Let the Bible speak. Let the Bible be the judge of what you're hearing. Did the colonel have everything right? Nope. Did I have everything right? Nope. Does any pastor have everything? Nope. Always working on it. And as good Bereans, you're always checking on Scripture. And you're praying for your pastor for truth. That'd be disseminated. All right. And we got one more to go here. All right, there we go. And pre-rath. And it's a fairly new position. Fairly new. It may be as new as the early '60s. Somewhere around there. That's how new this is. I've heard... and I would hear... I've heard... I'll also say if it's new, it's not true. But it may not be as new as we think it is. You know, where it may... it may be something that have been forgotten. And that may be an argument that we could bring up for the pre-trip rapture. Now, pre-trip rapture is that the day of the Lord is somewhere after the midpoint of the midpoint, the abomination of desolation. And that the day of the Lord is at some specific place when the Lord returns to bring wrath upon this earth. Again, the rapture will take place right before it, right before that day of the Lord. The pre-rathors, now call them, believe that the day of the rapture, that there is a element of time. That while there is seven years, what is called the great tribulation, great tribulation being halfway point to the end of the age, that it is cut short. The seven years not cut short, but the great tribulation is cut short, Matthew 24. And that it's cut short by the Lord's coming. And with the Lord coming to bring His wrath. And, again, the rapture takes place right prior to that. I agree with, I agree with the, with Pastor Dr. Dean when he says that the rapture, that if the church goes into, he says, if the church goes into tribulation and has to experience the wrath of God, it's like Jesus beating up on the bride, and that's not going to happen. But, here's the argument. How much of this is, where do you stand? This is where the argument lies. What is the day of the Lord? Is the full seven years? The pre-wracked position is that the day of the Lord begins, number one, with signs, with signs and wonders, a cosmic, cosmic disturbance, and that it's, again, it's at the end. It's after, oh, yeah, that's what I'm looking at. Six seals. It's after breaking the six seals, that's something we will be talking about. After the six seal, let's look at Revelation, let's go to Revelation 4. Revelation 4 talks about the six seals. Now, what we talk about, when we talk about scrolls, we're going to talk about this when it comes up, but let me show you this. The scroll like this, looking at a scroll, and on that scroll, there are seven seals, one, two, three, going across that, and those seals have to be broken, each of the seals, boom, boom, boom, boom, and these series of events have to take place until the scroll is open. That's what we're talking about, seals, it's like, whack seals on there, or whatever it is in heaven, but that's the picture of it. You've got six seals going across there, and each one's been broken, yes, thank you. All right, and there you got, first seal is war. Jesus said in Revelation, again, not Revelation, Matthew 24, he said that there will be wars, rumors of wars, of famines, earthquakes, don't let these things bodily, the time has not yet come, but these are the, these are birth pranks, okay, so you've got war, then you've got the third one, which is famine, the fourth seal, which is death, and we're going to get it in each one, the fifth seal will be martyrs, people dying for the faith, and then you have the sixth seal, and in the sixth seal, I looked, first, for a Revelation 6, 12, I looked and I broke, and he broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as that cloth, made of hair, and the whole moon became light blood, cosmic, cosmic disturbance, and the stars, they fell from the sky near the earth, as the fig tree casts the unripe figs, which is shaken by the great wind. The sky will be split apart like a scroll when it is rolled up, and that every mountain on the island will move out of their spaces, that the kings of the earth, the great men, and the commanders, and the rich, and the strong, and every slave and free men hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, and they said to the mountains, mountains, and to the rocks, fall on us, and hide us from the presence of him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the land, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who is able to stand. Pre-rathers say that the day of the Lord is after the sixth seal. It's not prior to it, not dispensation, I say it since, and here's the argument for this, it's a good argument, that since it is the Lord who, since it's the Lord who breaks the seals, because it's the Lord who's breaking these seals, that the entire seven years is identified as a tribulation, or identified as the day of the Lord, seven years. Compared to the pre-rathers, the day of the Lord is that, which is within the great tribulation again, from the middle of it to the end of it, at somewhere in there, that with all the hell going on earth and all the things that are taking place, that if it continued to be, then man would wipe himself out. The Lord will interrupt the great, be all of this, now the pre-rathers will agree, well, they will argue that all the way up to the time of the Lord, the Lord has not left the throne in, or the father's throne, he has not left the heaven yet to come down to bring his wrath, and that all of what takes place within this period of time is all about Satan. It's what Satan is doing, it's what the Antichrist is doing, it's what the religious, the world religion is doing, all of this is all the way up until the Lord and my brother Mike would say, up until the Lord had enough, but the Lord, the Lord will have, it will be the time that the Lord will say, it's kind of like, at that point, sick them. It's now, they see, the seven years is not the Lord's second coming, it's the Lord's leaving his throne room coming, and he's coming as we, I think we said it last week. The first Advent coming is the Lord's, Lord coming, the first Advent was the Lord coming like a lamb, quiet, calm, you know, we said at Christmas time we get these little songs silent night and quiet town of Bethlehem, I love the song by the way, because it really sets up the, the tranquility of the coming of the lamb, not so with the second Advent. The second Advent is going to be, boom, let's, let's finish off my thought on this and we'll move on with that thought. Okay, so to pre-rath number one, the day of the Lord is an undisclosed period of time between the mid-point and the end of the seven years, two, the church will experience more than half of the seven year event and see the rapture is preceded by signs and wonders. Okay, what separates the camps is this, the day of the Lord is an undisclosed period of time between the mid-point and the end of the seven years, okay? The, the timing, okay, seven year, okay, I messed up on that, okay, I didn't put the right thing down there, that's all right, I screwed up once before, but that's okay. Okay, what, okay, what separates, what separates the camps is the timing, the timing, the timing of the rapture, as we've already discussed, you're either pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib or pre-rath, the timing for that are all different. Each camp believes that there's going to be a rapture, okay? You're in agreement, I don't know what to say about you if you don't believe that there's going to be a rapture, okay, there's going to be a rapture. The camps part are different from the way, okay, we set that, we fix that for you sometime. The definition of tribulation is also in dispute, I'll say, let me go through this, the tribulation is defined by the dispensationalists as the entire seven years. But as we will look at the Bible, can the Bible support that? Remember what I'm telling you, whatever position you take may be supported. One of the arguments about that, because we have to get our definitions down, what is the tribulation, and let me show you this, what does the Bible, we know the word, the lippis, the lippis, let me see if I'll put that on here, let's bring this back up, and the Bible, and let's see, and let's go back to Revelation 11, and bring this up, okay. For tribulation, let me see, let's do this differently. First of all, the word for tribulation, okay, bear with me for just a second, let me see how I'm going to do this one, and we will, search, we'll put up here tribulation. All right, there we go, all right, tribulation, let's go to Matthew 2421 tribulation, and we will go to the Lou and Knight on this, and Lou and Knight is the lippis, and it means trouble, this is the word for revelation, trouble involving direct suffering, trouble and suffering, suffering persecution, therefore those who were scattered as a result of the trouble and suffering which took place at the time of Stephen's death, Acts 1119, and there will be that great suffering such as not taking place since the beginning of the world, Matthew 2421. For a number of languages, trouble and suffering may be expressed as that which causes pain, so, okay, suffering, okay, we call it a general suffering, is it? So are we talking about a period of time, are we talking about hurtfulness, okay, let's do something else here, we come back to the search window and go back tribulation, let's look at the places that are used, there's not too many places where this word is used. Think about Matthew 2421, for then there will be a great tribulation such as not occurred since the beginning of the world until now nor ever will, this is whether Jesus is speaking of the desolation of abomination, and all four camps agree that the great tribulation is halfway through to the end of the tribulation, okay, so we have, so here it's talking about the great tribulation talking about a period of time, or maybe not a period of time, but what's going to happen in that period of time from the halfway to the end, okay, Matthew 24/9, back up a little bit, then there will deliver you to tribulation and will kill you and you will be hated by all nations because of my name, again, we're dealing with the Ovid discourse and we're dealing with the second half of the tribulation there, or the seven years, I should say, Revelation 714, I said to him, my Lord, you know and he said to me, these are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, again, the great tribulation is described as the halfway mark to the end of that, so we've got the great tribulation there, alright, that was Revelation 714, Mark 139, for those days will be a time of tribulation such as not occurred since the beginning of creation, which God created now and never will. Now you see, the first three and a half years have considered kind of a false peace, it's kind of like a, the us there's going to be wars and rumors of wars, but still we're talking about the the second part, alright, the John, Matthew 1321 yet has no firm root in himself but is only temporary to affliction and persecution, the affliction and tribulation, John 1633, these things I have spoken to you so that in me you may have peace and the world you have tribulation but take courage, description of the suffering, Romans 1212 rejoicing and hope preserving and tribulation, Revelation 1 9, John, your brother, the fellow protector in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus was on the island of Patness, okay, particular tribulation, particular participating in troubles and trials and those things, don't necessarily talk about time there, 1 Thessalonians 4 6, for the Lord himself would descend from heaven with the shock and with the voice of the earth angel with the trumpet of God and the devil God will try rise first, I don't see it in there, but we're talking about the rapture there, Matthew 24, let me find another tribulation word, okay, all that is, there's a tribulation, 2 9, I know your tribulation and your poverty, once again talking about the suffering and that's it, so we through here you see a 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8 times it's mentioned in Revelation but you don't see where although I think you have to stretch a little bit to say that the full seven years is identified as a tribulation, it speaks of the time, the middle and the end, this is where the mid-tripper say that the middle and the end to the end is the great tribulation and the day of the Lord, but once again these are pressures, these tribulation is the pressure that we're having as the church or the believers at that point is having through that period of time, so my point is that can we really identify, now I'm not saying that there's not going to be a seven year, but the argument is has those seven years been falsely or, and I won't say falsely in that sense, mistakenly described as a tribulation, when it's not the tribulation, but it is called Daniel 70th week, at this point I will continue to call it Daniel 70th week, that's the prophecy, now the question is will the church go into those seven years, will they be a part of that, okay, so once again, just real quick, Revelation 714 is of the great tribulation, Mark 1319 talks about the great tribulation, John 1633, tribulation means a persecution against believers, Romans 12, 12 persecution, Revelation 1, 9 persecution, which John is a protector of, and Revelation 2, 9 is persecution, okay, so we can bring to the table the argument of whether or not we can call the seven years actually the tribulation, there is a great tribulation which is three and a half years into that Daniel 70th week, okay, the argument with the dispensationist is that since the full year, since the full seven years has been identified as the tribulation, then we can put the rapture prior to that, but my question is, is that doctrinal presupposition, can you make an argument that that full seven years, can you make a definite argument that those seven years is the tribulation, now what I'm talking about is what will be against of course everybody in the dispensational camp, but nonetheless I have to be true to the Bible folks, I have to be true with what I'm studying, okay, so it's difficult to see how any of the uses that we've seen in tribulation identify the entire seven years, the great tribulation is identified in Jesus of discourse as being the last three and a half years of Daniel 70th week, Daniel 70th week comes from Daniel, Daniel chapter 9 is when the angel identified to Daniel that there is going to be 70 weeks prophesy, prophesied and those 70 weeks is 77 year period, seven years is considered a week, so that's 490 years and that after Jesus had been cut off, the timetable had stopped, it has stopped, the clock has stopped, so Israel there's seven more years by which Israel owes before that completion of that 490 years, what was that Daniel what? Daniel 9, Daniel 9 and that's that prophecy you'll get there, so when we talk about Daniel 70 weeks, it's also called the time of Jacob's trouble, it's also in those 70 weeks and those in that last week, so the next term is wrath and we find that and the wrath and this is where we also differ with the different, what is the wrath, what is the day of the Lord, the day of the Lord is the wrath of God, it is finally again the day of the Lord is God's wrath coming down, let's go to Joel 230, go to Joel 230 with me, I'm almost done with this lesson, if I have to go a little long you know, be patient with me please, Joel, you all alright, do I have any dates or anything, alright you brought your swiftly, okay that's convenience, alright Joel 230, check it on your notes there, I got it on your notes, alright here we go, I will display wonders, let me put it up, let me put it up on the board for you, okay, okay and we're gonna go to Joel 230, alright, I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, blood, fire, columns of smoke, the sun will be turned into darkness, the moon into blood, before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes, remember we've already read Revelation chapter 19, with the breaking of the six seal, this will coincide with that, okay, and it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered, for on the Mount of Zion and in Jerusalem there will be those who escape as the Lord has said, again Matthew, I recommend you reading the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24, that will be your homework, even among the survivors whom the Lord calls, okay, so the coming of the Lord that the day of the Lord will mark with cosmic disturbance, that is things that the world will see, the stellar universe, the the previews of things to come is that the Lord's going to do a couple things for this, first of all before the day of the Lord, he's going to remove the church, the question is, again, is this the tribulation, the prior to the seven years, or is it prior to or as the post-trib says, prior to that one 24 hour period, or will it be somewhere between the midpoint and the end, you see these are the questions we have to ask, and then when, so before the day of the Lord, two things are going to happen, first of all the church is going to be taken, okay, the church will not go in either in any of the four positions, the church will not go into that day of the Lord, they will not because this is the day of the Lord is God's wrath against the wicked, the church will be spared from that, okay, but the question is that you need to ask, are you spared from Antichrist and the world regime that's going on at that point, okay, the second thing that's going to happen, anticipation is that the 144,000, they're not witnesses, they're 144 from each of the tribes will be sealed on that day, so the wrath will not touch them, but will touch those around them, so a lot of things are going to happen in that regard, so the book of Revelation, this constitutes the breaking of the sixth seal which we read in Revelation chapter 6, and the day of the Lord begins with His judgment against the world, this great and terrible day of the Lord, and now let me re-emphasize, this is why I stopped saying that Sunday is the day of the Lord, it's not the day of the Lord folks, it's wrong theology, it's wrong thing, the day of the Lord rightly defined is when the Lord comes back, and as I've often said before, I like it, is that when the judgment train, or when the grace and mercy train pulls out, the judgment train pulls in right behind it, because when the Lord, it is the Lord removing His grace and His mercy, and He's going to rain down His terrible wrath upon this earth. Revelation 19, 11, I'm going to bring that up on the board as well, and I saw heaven open, and I saw the coming of Christ, and I saw heaven open, and behold, a white horse, and He who said on it is called faithful and true, and His righteousness He judges and wages war. His eyes are flame of fire, and on His head are many diagrams, and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself, He is clothed with the rope dipped in blood, and His name is called the Word of God, amen. The armies which are in heaven clothed, and find linen, white, and clean, were following Him on white horses, from His mouth came a sharp sword, so that it may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron, and He treads with wine press and fierce wrath of God, the Almighty, and on His robe, and on His thigh is the name written, King, King, Lord of Lords. So out of my position, as we go through at this point, if you need to, and we do need to know so that you also can understand how I am interpreting and where we are going. At this point, and Pastor Tim, some years ago, some years ago now, when Pastor Tim worked this out, and he talked a little bit about it, it gave me enough doubt to stop teaching the pre-trib rapture position, that we are going to be taken out before, quote unquote, the tribulation, before the seven years. But as the years went by, and as more information comes, and I started looking into it, the pre-rath position, which is that the day of the Lord is a specific period of time at the end between the mid and the mid-trib and the end, that period of time, which brings it back on here, bring it back up on, not you, there you go, pre-rath, there we go, and this, I tell you what, and up to this point, I have struggled with different things from a doctrinal or dispensational viewpoint, and I found myself more and more, I found myself more and more, trying to fit what the Bible is into this viewpoint, okay, here is my viewpoint of fitting the Bible into it, and it was left with many questions, but in its simplicity, the pre-rath position answers so many questions, and it's, the Bible speaks, I found it so much easier to understand it from the Bible point of view, without trying to fit a doctrine or let me just say, presupposition on it, what I'm saying is, I came with a, if I come into the Bible with a dispensational pre-trip rapture, I find myself trying to, okay, how is this fit, how is this fit, okay, I don't, I'm trying to fit my presupposition in there, but if I take it from the pre-rath view, and a pre-rath view here, is that, yes, ladies and gentlemen, where I stand right now, I see the church going through a big part of the tribulation, yes, I see that we, and this is going against many of my friends and many of the people who stand on this position, the pre-trip rapture position, and if the Bible corrects me, then I will change back, but right now, everything that I see and everything that I'm being taught, everything that I'm looking at, lines up to the fact that the church will go through a big part of the tribulation, and which means that eventually the church will see the antichrist. Now why is this important? Why shouldn't I just say shut up and say, okay, just live in that lid, let people, you know, why do I cause a fuss, even bring a fuss down on myself, if that's, if it, then it may, and it very much may, you know, where people question me and say you're heretic and this, all this kind of stuff, listen. First of all, as pre-trip, as a pre-trip, understanding pre-trip, okay, the rapture is coming, and, but that's all right because I'm, or the tribulation is coming, the rapture is going to happen, I'm not going to go into tribulation, see I'm responsible for my congregation whether you're, the few as you are, or if you're men. And if I stand on that just because all my friends and colleagues believe in their pre-tribbers, pre-trip raptures, okay, and if I'm wrong, what are the consequences? If we go in as a church and we have to face, such a time, when I've told you over and over and over again that, oh, you're not going to suffer the pre-trip, you're not going to suffer the tribulation, first of all, what's going to happen to your faith? I think this is why many will fall away, yeah, that's why I think many will fall away from the faith because they were thinking they weren't going to be here. Number two, wrong application. Wrong application, you're not being able to, you know, make the right application when you go into it, you know, you're going back to your pastor, what, I thought we weren't going to be here, or is this, it can't be. Now if I'm wrong, and we're raptured out here, amen hallelujah, amen hallelujah, hey, I'm out, I'll see you in heaven, I say I was wrong about that, and y'all go give me thumbs up, we love you anyway, but what happens if we do go into the tribulation? See, there's going to be great ramifications, and I'm not doing, once again, I'm not teaching this to be controversial, and I'm certainly not selling books, I have a responsibility for each one of you as a pastor, and if I believe something true and I'll let the whole world be wrong, now, once again, I've said that there are many scholars on every part of you, and they know why that they stand on that viewpoint, amen, teaching. But if I'm believing in the pre-rath, and I'm leaning toward that, I'm teaching pre-trip. Now the bulk of the lesson, like I said, when we're studying Revelation, it's not going to be about pre-trip, pre-rapture, and we've spent today with the understanding that you know where I'm coming from, if you want to stay on pre-trip, that's fine, I'm not going, I'm not going to call you a heretic, I'm not going to take you out of church, but I want you to understand it from a biblical view, whatever, if you're a post-trip, tell me what the Bible says. If you're pre-rath, tell me what the Bible says, and I'm going to, as we continue on with that, when we study the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24, when we're studying Revelation, it's coming to the fact with my viewpoint that the day of the Lord is a period of time after the mid-seven years where the Lord comes back to bring his breath. I've gone very long today, but I want to get through the lesson, I'll come through the lesson. All right, any party shots before we close out, and I have questions? I know one thing, if I'm getting through this, and understanding the different ones, I hope that nobody thinks I'm not safe because I'm not getting it. No, the hill that we stand on, the hill that we stand on is that Jesus Christ provides eternal life, and I've got Calvinist friends that I love them to death, and Jay's Calvinist, Jay will tell me, he'll tell me, "You're not reading your Bible, are you?" I think it's a lot to more than anything else, because salvation is simple, and I think it's one of the hardest things to be dedicated and greater on this subject, because it gives a lot to it. And yes, very much so, and that's why I ask for your EC y'all are part of this too. That means you're not just coming to class, and okay, I had a Bible study, I'm going. You're part of this too, that means you're praying for my studies, you're praying for my dedication, praying for my heart, as well as your own, and for each other to open, and as I pray for you, so prayer is prayer for that, that's part of being the church, that's a part of assembling together, and that's a very vital part of this ministry is the assembling together, and praying for one another for insight, because this is highly important. I know one thing, you believe one thing, and you taught a different way, a little bit, whatever, and you didn't teach what you really believed in your life and in your study. I would feel sorry for you, because death, you're not hiding the fact that what you believe. Well, I guess it's what he's teaching in the mornings and acts, and when the spirit, when God gave us the gift of the Holy Spirit, is our help, and that is the importance of the salvation message and the gift of all the Spirit, and he will reveal if you have the faith and trust, and abiding in him, he will stop you, that prevailing, and in time, sometimes he shuts the door, and sometimes he opens the door, and sometimes he, you know, and just having the faith and the prayer, like he said, that's what it's all about, is studying. All right, with that said, thank you, with that said, we are going to close it out with 10,000 reasons, this is not in your emails, you know, we went with my favorite day, my favorite is, I don't know what your favorite is, but I know your favorite is, you know, that one. We did my favorite small, we do them to make a favorite to see, 10,000 reasons, but deep deep love of Jesus, you know, I don't know, I don't know, you two's favorite, I don't know, I don't know the best favorite I know Mike, and Michael, all right, let us stand and remain standing as we close it out this morning. Let the Lord of my soul, go of my soul, push up his holy day, sing like never before, oh my soul, I'll push up your holy day, the sun comes up, it's a beauty dawning, it's time to sing your song again, whatever made that said, whatever lies before me, let me be because, as the Lord of my soul, go of my soul, push up his holy day, sing like never before, oh my soul, I'll push up your holy day, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, and your heart is kind, for all your goodness I will keep on singing, 'cause now that we've been told, my heart too fine, bless the Lord of my soul, oh my soul, push up his holy day, sing like never before, oh my soul, I'll push up your holy day, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, and your heart is a beauty, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great and the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great, the rich and the better soul to say, your name is great throughout the week and those that are lost, I mean, you thank for your grace and your mercy and our precious name, the newest name, we pray, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen, amen. All right, next week, tentatively, we're going to have children. Look forward to that, okay, so all right, have a good one. [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [BLANK_AUDIO]