Hello and welcome to episode 81 of the Panetic Podcast, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analog tools that we love so dearly. The Panetic is a show on the Glorious 5x5 Network. And my name is Mike Hurley, and this week I am joined by what can only be described as two of the best pens around, kept in a beautiful leather package. I have got, of course, Mr. Brad Dowdy, hi Brad. Hey Mike. And we have returning guest Anna Reinert, hi Anna. Hi, how are you? I'm very well, how are you? Pretty good. Thanks for coming back today. No problem. Oh, we love having you on the show, and all of the listeners do too, so. Thank you. We're a good trio, I think. So, Mr. Dowdy, what's happening today, sir? Where do we go? Well, we have a little bit of follow up on a few of the topics we covered last week, but we wanted to get Anna back on to do a gift guide show for this year since Christmas and the holidays are coming up. We wanted to, we had a good feedback last year when you and I did it, and then Anna took me to task afterwards on her blog about some of my choices. So, I think that was at the first time we got you on last year, Anna, was after that. No, yeah, it was, it was after that. Yeah. So, after that show last year, we had Anna on to talk about some of our disagreements about that, and luckily we've been able to get you back a million times since then, which I love doing, and I think this maybe will be an annual thing. Awesome. Yeah, so, so let's talk about the one topic that I don't want to talk about, Mike. That's the, that's the visionary. So, you go, you have some, you have some comments on this. So, I can't remember what it was that took me to back to the Vision Air page this week. I think that there might have been an update. I think the pens have started shipping out or it may have just been, you know, after the show, I wanted to go and take a look. And I was kind of just having a look through it, and I was looking at, and the comments were, I wouldn't even say they were mixed, like the comments that I could see, and I was, I read through quite a few, they were resoundingly positive about the pen, people receiving the pen, but they did seem like novice opinions in many, many places. Not a criticism, just an observation. And I don't know how much of a difference that, that actually does make, like I don't know if potentially a novice, a pen novice would be harsher or more forgiving. I don't know, in all honesty, but that was just an observation that I made. And it seemed like, you know, that the kinds of complaints that there were seemed like complaints, which could be levied against many pens, like they were rattling, like, so the clip was rattling on the cap, which I have many pens that I've paid lots of money for where that happened. And there seemed to be like, and then I was doing some reading around in forums and stuff, like some of the stuff that we had last week. And like, there's an argument that, and the argument that I think comes from, what's the guy's name again? Morgan Morgan, is that he commissioned this pen to be made, and that this, this company in China, the factory, used his mold to create their own of less quality materials. And I kind of feel like, I have this like moral dilemma about this discussion, because I feel like right now, we have me and you, Brad, have as much to go on either side of this, like, we don't know for sure either. So I kind of feel bad when we rip it apart. And then I sort of read about it, and I'm like, well, I have no proof that is such and such way. So maybe we're being harsh. And it seems like a lot of the people that are saying, you know, this is a rip-off, and they actually don't have one yet. So they're doing it on site alone. And if Morgan's story is true, then site alone actually doesn't help, because if he's correct, if he's being honest, and he has a true story in that he did, whether he designed this pen or not, let's move past that now. But if he, you know, requested this pen to be made, the, this, this Chinese company could be making much cheaper quality versions than what he's sending, and then sending out. I mean, I, I do think there's arguments to be had on both sides. And, you know, I am, we don't know for a fact necessarily anything because we're not Morgan. But the problem, the recurring, there's so many recurring issues of Morgan's answers and stance on a lot of this to where he doesn't answer any questions, or just goes off on these wild tangents that, you know, no one is interested in hearing. And my argument all along from the very first time we mentioned it is every single person who backed this project is going to get a perfectly fine pen. And I think that's what we're finding out in the messages of Kickstarter. Everyone's enjoying their pen. Now, I will say that the vast majority of the comments that are reading are from complete fountain pen novices that, you know, don't know how to unscrew the barrel to put the ink cartridge in. And that's a, like a recurring theme, like, this is a lot of people's first fountain pen. And the price point at $37, you know, everyone's okay with that too, because it's really, you know, they didn't pay $80 for the pen or they didn't pay $125 for the pen. They're okay with the price that they paid for whatever they received. And, you know, my argument all along is just that this is no different from any $5 Chinese fountain pen that you can file not right now. Yeah. And we kind of, I think, rightly put that in a way, $37 is more offensive to people that spend hundreds of dollars on pens, because I own pens that are $25 to $30, which are incredible, quality of the best pens I own. Oh, I mean, the pilot metropolitan would annihilate this visionary on a side to side comparison. And it's less than half the price. Yeah. So I'm just going to wait and see. I mean, I expect to have mine within a couple of weeks. Cool. Yeah. And it's going to be fine. It's just, you know, it's, I don't think I try to give Morgan the benefit of the doubt, but he doesn't help himself. Sure. I can kind of see the headlines now, like, Pan addict Mike Hurley embraces the visionary as the best pen he's ever owned, you know? I'd be okay with that. I would be okay with you buying a $5 Chinese fountain pen and saying it's the best pen I ever own. Oh, look at that. See, you can't. Okay. That's fair. That's a fair statement. Yes. Yes. Yes. All right. So I think we've about beaten this dead horse. I don't want you to take on this. Um, well, I haven't been following the situation as closely as you guys have, because I did not actually commit to purchasing one. So I haven't really followed it. I've kind of been listening to what you guys have said over the last few weeks about it. And I do know just from having worked a bit with Chinese manufacturers that their policies about copyright and trademark on designs is not as stringent as it is here in the United States. So it is possible that this Morgan designed this pen and then they just kept making them, you know, after his quantity and so now they're selling them for a fraction of what they were before. I don't, honestly, I don't know, but I do feel like just from the sounds of things, it sounds, it doesn't sound completely legitimate to me. You know, there's a little, there's a lot of waffling. And I know that there's a lot and lots and lots of vendors in Asia that you can buy pens from and buy other things. And especially if you're buying in large quantity, you can say, hey, I like this pen, but I'd like you to make it in a different material or a different color or with a different finish. And if you order enough, they'll make a run of them for you in whatever, you know, treatment you want. I mean, that's, we've, I've done a lot of work in Asia doing that, I want this thing, but I want it this, you know, 20% bigger and, and they, you know, retool things and make it for you the way that you want it. So I mean, it could go either way, but I feel like chances are, I don't know, I lean towards where you guys are at and that he probably started with something that was already there and maybe modified it to meet his criteria and then sort of sold it as an original concept. I'm sorry, I have a sneezy cat. Is that sneezing? Wow. That's right. Everybody is sick. I know Mike sneezing. I've already gone mute twice just so I could, you know, call off on. So we're all sick. It's the sick podcast. Yeah, there must have been some contaminated ink somewhere. Yeah. So what, one, a couple of things on what Anna said and, and I think she's, she's totally right and on point. And I've also, one of the things I've always said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with getting your pin manufactured in China or, you know, buying any, you know, Chinese merchandise. It's that I don't think this is what Kickstarter should be used for, for one. And then, you know, it just kind of defeats the purpose of that whole creative thing. I mean, I guess, you know, I don't know, I just feel like there's not enough originality in this pen to say that this was an original design by, by someone. And when you might, he might have put his stamp on it, you know, his, like you said, you know, here's, here's kind of some of the specs I want. But, you know, all of that, pretty much pre-made stuff. Yeah. And when you put it up against some of the other pens that have been on Kickstarter that were more original designs like Karis Customs, where they're hand tooling them, they're making a point of making them in the United States, and they're making them one at a time, you know, I mean, it's, you feel like you're really supporting a small business, trying to get their feet under them and get a business, like a business model going where I feel like this guy is sort of a one and done, he's going to do this, he's going to make his bankroll or whatever. And I don't know that we'll ever hear from him again, you know? Yeah. Yeah. We might on, if I don't know, he can, he might can design another pen and just kind of kind of go the same route. I mean, it's just the same as, you know, some of the, some of the American retail, online retailers that stock, you know, all the basic Chinese fountain pens, like Jin Hao and Hero and some of these that would just stock them, except for their sell them for what would be a normal retail price, you know, like in a five or $10 range, but Morgan's like really jacked up this price. And I just don't think it's fair or fair is not the right word, but I just don't think people who are purchasing it understand what they're purchasing it, purchasing it. And that kind of, that has kind of never gotten through to a lot of the backers on the Vision Air. And you know, there's nothing we can really do about that. But I just think, you know, things like Morgan, I think it's very telling, Mike, when Morgan's, okay, so the Vision Air is $37, right? And when he says things like he's spending all this money like on packaging, like he said he spent $5 alone on the packaging, that's extremely telling to me, which he didn't plan for upfront the packaging. It came after the fact, and he's saying he spent $5 on each of these packages. That's 15% of the total, or about 15%, I guess, of the total cost of the pin that he didn't plan for upfront. So what is he paying for these pens? That's what's telling to me, which makes me think it's exactly what we what I think it is. Does that make sense? Yeah, I get it. Okay, I agree. So that's that's these are the things that are coming out that are, you know, I'm trying to trying to justify in my head. And in a lot of it, it doesn't add up to what it should be. Anyway, I said, we're going to stop talking about this. It's just hard because we keep getting asked about it too. So but yeah, but I also I do see your point, Mike, where there is a fair probability, or there is at least some chance that it could be perfectly legit. I mean, legit, Morgan's not doing anything illegal or bad. You know, I just think, you know, it's I don't know. It's just not right through Kickstarter to do this type of thing. So anyway. That was not co going. It's going good. I was behind the sewing machines this weekend again. Jeff keeps throwing me behind there. You know, hopefully I'm doing a good job. I think I am. So it's fun. We finally got all the money transferred as of like Friday. So we were able to order start ordering. I ordered a bunch of products, bunch of stuff, bunch of materials this weekend. Actually, in the in the like our famous UPS driver ringing the doorbell during the during the podcast several times back in the day, it's very possible that an 18-wheeler could be rolling up with packaging supplies. No way. Any minute while we're. How much of you wanted? A lot. Hey, we got a lot of cases to ship. So, you know, humble brag. Yeah, there's 2000 and something backers. There's nothing humble bragging about it. It's right there in black and white. So I'm sending out at least that many orders. I can tell you that. So, but yeah, I ordered so much packing supplies. It has to come on a on a large semi truck. It's too much for like UPS and stuff to handle. So yeah, so that actually might be rolling up. I heard my phone ring out out in the kitchen. So I'm wondering if that's the truck driver saying he's close. So we'll see if he rolls in during during this episode. It's like I imagine you've always dreamed of something related to your pen hobby arriving on a truck. I never thought of it that way. I didn't think it was going to be envelopes. But yeah, still, it's cool. So I'm going to be the the shipping department here at my house is going to be kicking into high gear and about, I don't know, maybe a week or so. And we have most of the early bird stuff done already. So I don't want people to think that it's getting ready to ship and they should expect it any day now. But hopefully, you know, by around another week, week and a half, I can start getting some packages in the mail to the post office and some of the early bird people will start seeing their stuff in early December, I hope. So that's the plan right now. Yay. Yeah, we're excited. We're excited. So we're just cranking away. We've got lots more cases to go. But everything's going pretty good so far. No change in shipping dates or anything like that. So everything's looking just fine. So go planning. We'll see if we we'll see if we pull through. But yeah, it's going good. Going good. All right, one last one last thing that just popped up on my screen before we got on this call and before we get into the gift guide episode, which I'm actually really excited about doing. And I want to hear about some of these these pens and and papers and things that we're all that we all like and want to recommend other people. But our friend and listener and five by five jackal Mikey Reach sent me a tweet right before I got online that one of my old I guess one of my old pen reviews for a pilot G to a mini pilot G2 and turquoise landed on Reddit in the penmanship porn subreddit for an under the title of that sexy architect penmanship. Yep, that's you all over, buddy. And it was just too funny to not to not share this in the in the show notes and talk about it on the episode. But it's just hilarious because it's really it's a poor example of my handwriting. I felt and I actually responded if I won't tell everyone my Reddit name. But if you go in there, go in that thread, I have responded to that thread and you can figure it out. My Reddit name. And I've replied back with basically, you know, here's a here's a link to what I think is my good penmanship that, you know, puts that puts that one that they link to in shame. But in in typical Reddit form, the highest ranking reply to the original post is is a pun on one of the, I guess, a pen pine on one of the words or one of the sentences that I put in there. And we all got a quite a laugh about that. I don't know if I can say that on the episode. I would leave it out, but people can go and go and find it themselves. Now we're curious. Yeah, yeah, we'll definitely go now. So you'll find it in the show notes, which you can find at five by five dot tv slash pen addict slash at one. Yeah, so you can see all the pin, the pin puns that everyone enjoyed posting and that are all that have been upvoted the most. And then you can, you can find my, my secret Reddit name if you want to stalk me on Reddit now, which I'm not very active on Reddit, but I do have an account just for things like this. So I can reply if I need to, but anyway. All right, let's get into this gift guide, Mike. All right, well, before we do that, we should take a moment to thank our sponsor. I think absolutely. Would you agree, sir? I very much agree. So let's take a moment to thank our fine sponsor for this episode. It's the great people over at squarespace.com. Squarespace are the only one platform that make it fast and easy to create your own professional website online or online portfolio, maybe a site for a store, a blog, whatever you want to put online, they can help you out with a free trial and 10% off your first purchase. You want to go to squarespace.com and use the code tallyho11. Now you've heard us talk about the great stuff at squarespace like the 24/7 customer support. They're beautiful templates, which make it really easy to make your pages, design your pages. I redesigned my blog a couple of days ago, just took me half an hour. I tried out a few different themes, picked one that I like, made some small tweaks to it, and I love it. I'm really happy with it. But I wanted to take a moment today to talk about something very awesome that squarespace have just released in the last couple of days. They have released some new iOS apps, and they are some Android apps coming very soon. What they've done is they've completely overhauled what they had on iOS. They've got two new apps now, one called Blog or one called Metrics. With the Blog app, you can easily draft, post, and schedule. You can also review your posts there, too, if you've maybe got a multi-alpha blog. What they've done is they've fully integrated it with their layout engine system, which is their page building system. You can really easily format text and mark down for your posts. My favorite thing is, when you insert an image, you can tap it and hold it and drag it around the page to position it. I've never done something like that on iOS before, in a blogging application. I've never seen that before. I think that that's really awesome because it allows you some real good control with how your images are going to be seen. They're also the Squarespace Metrics app. What they've done is it has all of the statistics that you'd find in Squarespace. Your page views, unique visitors, and they can give you projections as well for your website as well as it's all to guess how much traffic you can get out of a certain period. They've also integrated with social stuff. You can have your Twitter accounts in there and your Facebook accounts and your Instagram accounts. You can see how many friends and followers and stuff like that that you have. So it's a couple of really cool apps. They come free with all Squarespace accounts. So you have to have a Squarespace account to use them. I think that it's just another thing that makes Squarespace superior to everybody else when it comes to building a website. Brad, did you have anything that you wanted to say or talk about the apps that I haven't? The apps, the first round of apps, Squarespace has been doing these iOS apps since, I guess, Squarespace version 5, I'm guessing. Yeah, it was 5. Yeah. And they've been a real challenge for Squarespace. And people like myself who update their blogs frequently had constant issues with the old versions of apps. And to the point where I would delete the app and not use it and then I'd add it back, they'd make some update and then I'd add it back. And it's still the functionality just wasn't there. And the old app combined the blog piece and the editing piece and it had the metrics all in the same app. And it was all in one app, just like one blog app. Now they've broken it out. And I just downloaded it last night. So I haven't played one of the worst things in the old app was editing an existing post. Like if I put out a post and someone ping me later that I made a typo, which I love when people do. I don't take offense to that at all. It's horrible. And I want to be corrected because I'm a terrible speller. And sometimes I don't catch everything. And in the old app, if I'd go and edit them in the app, I would just end up destroying my whole post through the iOS app. It just didn't work for me. And the mark markdown wasn't integrated very well. And I wrote on my post and markdown. So it just something would happen in there. So I think this new app is built with things like that in mind. Yeah, definitely. So it's going to be a lot easier to work with my blog in these apps. And I don't know. I might start. I'm going to maybe test some doing some posts in that and see if it would make it easier. Because I think the one thing I use my phone for pretty much everything now, except for writing. And just because I don't have to put all these images and links in my post and that's harder to do on the phone than just writing straight text and formatting it with markdown links or whatever. So I'm anxious to try this out. And I tell you what, they look beautiful. They did a good job on the design. So I'm anxious to give it a full run through and see how many improvements they've made. But it looks like it's on the right track so far. So if for any reason you've heard about the app not being, you know, perfect. I mean, in all honesty, and this isn't me just saying it, I never had a problem with the apps. I don't. I know that people did, but I was always fine. Maybe it's because I don't really post too often. So it was okay for what I needed. But you can go and try and try them out for yourself now. Go sign up for a free trial. You can give it. You can give all the stuff at Squarespace or WoW. So you can start a free trial now. No credit card needed to do so. And when you decide to sign up, then you use the offer code TALIHO11. That's T-A-L-L-Y-H-O-1-1. It's going to get you 10% off your first purchase. And we'll show your support for the pen out in an all of 5x5. So that's Squarespace, everything that you need to create an exceptional website. So let's do this thing. So we have our gift guide. So we have a few categories for the gift guide. We have regular pen, fountain pen, ink, paper, accessory, and then some sort of random picks at the end. I think we've got a couple of those. I seem to have personally not put in a wishlist item. So I will be doing that. We also have a wishlist item as well. So I will come up with one of those while we're talking. Yes, that was that was official show mascot, Kanini Renishin's idea. We were talking about doing a gift guide. She says, "Yeah, do the gift guide, but I want to know what you guys want for holidays too." So that was at her request. I will think of something and put it in. So we'll write bad things about you. I know. I must make sure that I will suffer at the wrath of our mascot if I do not provide a wishlist item. So by the time that we get around to that, luckily it's the last one. I will definitely have one because I have some lists of stuff that I like anyway. So I will start off being mister obvious. I feel like my list is not going to be as exciting as Brad and Anna's. I feel like most people could probably just guess mine. And if you just stop the show now and have a guess, you'd probably get them. But I feel like some of my stuff is excellent and I will obviously start off with what I consider to be one of the best pens ever made for my sort of regular pen is the Retro51 tornado rollable pen. I just think for $20, they range from about $20 to $25. There's a range. Jet pens have a pretty good range of the colors and styles. I just don't think you can get better. The build quality and the look, they're so distinctive, they look so much more expensive than they are and then they're a real sort of talking point pen. They have some special edition ones that go up to like $30, which are made out of really cool metals. I've been speaking about these pens for ages and it seems to be like a staple of the show that people will buy one as an entry pen and then we'll send in pictures of us or tweets to us where they say that we're right and it's an incredible pen. If you are getting started or you know somebody in your life that wants to get started with looking at pens in a new way and buying some nicer stuff, I don't think you can do any better for the quality for the price limit that you get with the Retro51. I still think to this day it's probably one of my most recommended pens by far. I just can't see why you wouldn't be able to use it. Like I just can't see how it could be a problem for somebody. I have even bought one this year and I like it too. Excellent. It's a good pen. Hey, it was green, what can I say? Yes, you made the right choice. So Ana, what is your recommendation in this category? Well, I kind of expected someone else to mention the Retro51 so I decided to go a little bit different with a regular pen and assume that maybe this is another pen addict trying to sort of get a friend, family member interested in something other than what comes out of their office supply cabinet at work. So I suggested maybe doing like a multi-pen set. Like the pilot juice has a 12 color set that you can get for $20, about 20 bucks, which is just they're nice pens, they're retractable, jellink. I like them. They've been my sort of go-to pen this year. The one that sits in the cup on my desk. Yeah, those are awesome pens. I keep, that's something every time I order something from jet pens, I usually throw one or two more of the juice in there, especially since they come in the .38 now, which I like. Yeah, me too. And they come in all these great colors. That's an awesome idea. And then plus you can just put a little note with the link to the website in it and they can go have some more fun. Absolutely. And then, I mean, if buying somebody like a whole set of pens wasn't something that appealed, my other option would be to do like a multi-pen. So if you were looking for something that was like a higher end, the zebra sharbo, which comes in at about $50, but we'll hold is it two plus one, two plus a mechanical, or you can put a gel or ballpoint in there. But that seemed like the kind of thing where you could, again, maybe buy the case for somebody and then give them a gift certificate for jet pens to fill it themselves or at least get them started with some stuff. And if, you know, $50 for a sharbo is too much for somebody, something like the uni-style fit, they have a new one called the Meister. I hadn't seen it before. There's a three color and it's $16.50. It seemed like a good option. And of all the multi-pens that I have, I tend to use the uni-style fit more than I use the high-tech seat Kalito or any of the other ones I have floating around. I keep them all at work and they just sort of randomly go with me to meetings. So I really like the unis. They write really well even after they've been sitting on my desk for a year. The Kalito would actually be my choice. I bought one of those whatever a year ago. And I don't use it very often, but I do really, really enjoy it. I like that a lot of really cool colors you could get for that too. Yeah. Well, like you, Anna, I assume, for my regular pen category, I assume someone on this panel would mention Retro51, so I didn't go there either. Nice to predict. So I went a little bit off the reservation and this is a new pen. I just, I bet I've only had it, not even a month. And it really caught me off guard how much I like it because I thought it would be okay. I didn't expect to love it like I do and that's the Lami 2000 ballpoint. It's when I, when I buy a pen and I spend as much time just looking at it and holding it as much as I do writing with it. I know it's pretty special. I've shown this pen to a couple of people like Jeff, my partner at NOC, and he's just like blown away by the construction of it. I was a little bit worried before I ordered it about the refill. And you know, if the refill was no good, I was going to be disappointed. The refill is actually spectacular. It's very smooth, very clean writing. And as a matter of fact, my wife has already laid claim to this pen. So if that tells you anything, I'm going to have to order her some blue refills for it. But I no longer have this Lami 2000 that I just bought because she liked it so much. I gave it to her. So she's going to use that at work. But I was very impressed with this pen. And surprisingly, so and liked it enough that I think it's well worth a recommendation for if someone's looking for a good gift for someone. I think it's $65. So it's not exactly cheap, but compared to the rest of the Lami 2000 line and as beautiful and classically designed as this pen is, I think it's a pretty good deal. Well, my initial thought as soon as I heard regular pen was to recommend the Keras Customs retract. But I don't think that they're finished with their Kickstarter yet. I went and looked at their website. And it says you can pre order, but I don't know if they'll have them ready in time for the holidays. Yep, that was on my short list as well too. And I just got mine in from the Kickstarter campaign. Last week, and I'm liking it a lot. Which one did you get? I got the the regular standard aluminum. And I have filled it with the Uniball Sino RT 0.38 millimeter blue black refill. And it's killer fits great works great looks great. It's awesome. I'm curious about the weight on the aluminum. If you get around to weighing it, it'd be curious because I have a brass one and it weighs a ton. Yeah, beautiful, but it's heavy. Yeah, Mike, I sent Mike the render K in brass and I have the bolt in brass and they're all weights too heavy for me. No, I have the bolt in brass. Oh, you have the bolt in brass. So I have the render K in brass and those crossed up. It's a lot lighter. I've had my retract for a while because I'm special. Yeah. And it's much, much lighter than the brass render K. I think the brass ones are just heavy books, heavy by nature, you know. I like keeping it on my desk as a potential weapon. Do you know what? I kind of feel like the caras customs guys would like that in a way. Oh, yeah. Totally. I think they would be happy to hear that people are protecting themselves with their pens. I thought that something down would be happy with. So moving on to fountain pens. So I recently, I've been using the stuff that I bought at the pen show. However, due to a package that I received from our guest today, I came in possession of a Twisbee nib in fine. And I put it on my Twisbee 540, which I have the 540 arrows, the rubber kachina, the ROC special edition. And I've fallen in love with the Twisbee 540 again. It's all I've used for the last week. Sweet. I just, I'd forgotten how incredible this pen was because I'd been using the mini and I'd love the mini and then I moved away into other things. And now I've gone back to the 540 and the fine nib is just incredible. So like as I've moved towards that a little bit more as well since the last time I used this and it performs excellently on all paper types. So I can write, I love having a fountain pen that I can reliably write in field notes with. With when it's clipped to my field notes, it's pretty much just the same size as the book, which is good. And having the full size pen again has just been fantastic. And in the same vein as the Retro51, if you can see the thing is if you can find a 540, because they're more difficult to find now, because they, I'm right in thinking that I know Brad that the 540 is a bit harder to come by. Yeah, the 580 is essentially replaced the 540. Now, it may be that the 580 works just as well, but I haven't used that. So I wouldn't want to recommend it. But you can grab it from Copens. Copens have a few colors of the 540 left. And it's pretty well priced. I mean, it's 42 pounds, which for the quality of fountain pen that you're getting, I mean, obviously, if you're in the UK, it helps with not having to do the exchange. I just think it's absolutely excellent. And thank you, Anna, for highlighting this pen again to me. No problem. Actually, I think the 580, the only change was they did some improvements on the plastic, because I guess some people were having issues with the plastic on the 540s cracking. So I think there's an extra ring somewhere just to protect the plastic from, I think maybe people were over twisting the cap or the nib. Do you know, Brad? Yeah, there's a metal piece in the section now. So to help prevent that cracking. But you can't get the beautiful 540 ROC. That's I've, that was one of my favorite purchases. I think it's potentially one of the, if not most beautiful pen that I own, in my opinion, I just love it. I love it so much, especially with blue ink in it, because it's got a clue. Yeah. So yeah, thanks to Brad for, for first planting that seed in my mind. Hey, I bought you that one too. Well, I mean, you paid for it, but I've ordered it for you. You did without you. I wouldn't have got it. Yes, sir. That's a good one. So, Anna, what did you, what is your fountain pen of choice? Well, I have been seeing a lot of people posting the Kuyko Sport art editions. And I thought those would be absolutely spectacular as a gift because the plastics have that wonderful sort of modeled look. Brad, didn't you just get an amber one? Yeah, it is beautiful. And I think Ed Gelly did, just recently did a post that he got one of the amber ones too. But I found a website that showed all the different colors. There's a wonderful sort of yellow, there's a purple, and then there's one that's, and I'm going to butcher this pronunciation, but it's like Aksah here. Yeah. Is that sound right? Yeah, Aksah here. I was just about, that is incredible. It's amazing. Why haven't I seen these? I don't know. I haven't figured out, I'll have to email Kuyko and say and see, but I don't understand these apparently have been out for like six or eight years, at least in a couple of the colors and then they keep adding colors, but none of the retailers here in the US really carry them. So it's very odd to me because it's an amazing pen. Oh man, maybe this is my wishlist item. I had one, but now maybe it's this. Look at this thing. Wow. Okay. Well, I'm, you know, for, I'm a Kuyko fan to begin with, so that for me, this would be like, yeah, this sort of moves into sort of wishlist territory, but I think, you know, it's, it's a good pen, it's good quality, and it's something that's very unusual and a little, you know, would be harder for people to find, so make a good gift. Where did you get yours from, Brad? Kuyko themselves, they sent it to me. Oh, yeah, of course. Yes. Yes. That's part of the, they did a blogger package where they sent a bunch of pins and inks out, and that was one of them. Okay. I was so jealous. I will, I will stand by awaiting the podcast package to arrive. The guest on the podcast, Parker package. I'd like one of those too. We'll put in a mention. You're out doubting. All right, so mine's also on the, the mini pen, um, bandwagon here, like the, like, uh, Anna's art sport, the Franklin Kristoff model 40 pocket. Oh, here's another wishlist. I'm kidding. This pen is amazing. This is, that I'm gonna, I'm gonna cut to the chase. This is my favorite pen I own right now. Oh, what? Oh, why are you doing this to me? This, and it is so cool. It is, it is just the coolest thing to look at. I've taken a bunch of pictures. If you follow me on Instagram at all, you'll see all my little pictures of this pen because it is just so cool looking. It's the smoke and ice. It's this acrylic, but this smoky kind of finish on it where you can see the inks through, um, through the barrel. I mean, it's, it's really, really well done. And the thing that really sets it off is the nib that I chose, I think. And that Franklin Kristoff does a whole set of standard nibs. And they're one price, like for the model 40, I think for the standard nibs, it's one 1950 with a steel nib. And you can choose, you know, every size, extra fine, medium, stub nibs, whatever. Then they have a second set of nibs that have been finished by Mike Masuyama, who always talk about his, who does fantastic nib work. And he does specialty nibs, where you can choose a steel needle point nib, which is finer than the extra fine, or you can choose a curse of italic, a medium curse of italic, which is the one I chose, plus another few, um, Masuyama nibs. And there's 135 or 139, it's either 15 or $20 more. That is well worth the cost of this nib. I have a spectacular, um, I started working on the review for this pen last night. And there's not a pen in my collection right now that I'm reaching for and using more than this model for a pocket. You did the crazy thing with the ink though, right? Yes, I converted it to an eyedropper. So this, it's a, it's a cartridge pen, just like any of the kaveko sport pens, you know, you pop the small international cartridge in and you're good to go. But the way this pens designed, especially on the clear models, I think on the, it comes in some, you know, solid barrel models, black and green and some cream colored and some various other non translucent barrels. But for the translucent barrel, there was no way I wasn't going the eyedropper out. And they made, they designed it to accommodate that. Franklin Court stuff did. So you just put a little silicone gel around the threads. I was nervous about doing it because I've never done it before. And this is a pocket pen that you literally do carry in your pocket just because of its size, like in a pants pocket. And I was concerned about it linking, but it works so well. And it's cool. It's, this is the coolest pen I own right now. I'm having more fun with this pen than I've had in, with any other pen in a long time. Sorry. Troublemaker. I know. How's your wish, how's your wish list looking now, Mike? Oh, it's just, well, I, I, now I've got, I've got three things on it. So we're going to ink now. And I think for me, you know, I, I can only really recommend the ink that I've been using all year, which is the Eroshizuku Kompeki, which is a deep as your blue ink, it's by Pilot. For the, I just love the color, the blue color is just fantastic. I really like the orange ink that I have as well from the range, but I think just as a, you know, you can't really use orange ink everywhere all the time. So I think this is a really, really beautiful blue and it's a purchase decision that I was very, very happy that I made. And it looks good in the rock. I'm sure it does. Well, I took two different paths, one of which is to say if you're looking for an ink gift for someone else, then Goulay Penn's ink drop subscription. Totally the way to go. They'd get to try a bunch of different kinds of ink and then sort of make a commitment to what they like. But the US subscription is $10 a month and it's $15 a month for overseas. And they have a prepay option. So if you were to buy it as a gift for a friend or a family member, you could just say I'm going to buy three months worth or six months worth or a year, which I think is really cool. And I've had a subscription now for going on two years and they've yet to duplicate a color. So you get five samples each month. And so I have, what does that mean? I've probably got over 200 sample models. There's a thing about that though for me where I'm worried that yes, it will seem to get all these sample bottles, but then how many bottles of ink am I going to buy? The crazy thing to be honest, I have to admit, I don't actually buy that much because I know I'm going to get five more samples next month. So I know I'm going to have something else to play with. And so a lot of times it's sort of, I'm sort of satisfied with, I really like this color, it was great for, I mean, because there's enough in the sample bottle for at least probably two loads on, you know, on a larger sized pen, probably three, if you're just like refilling cartridges or something like that. And at a certain point, you hit a point where you're like, okay, that color was fun. What else can I play with? So I really like that. But I also like the idea that you can pick inks based on someone's other interests because ink manufacturers name their inks after all sorts of different things. So like, scribal inks has all their inks sort of have a steampunky name to them. And they're really nice inks. So they have like kraken and Nessie. And so I mean, if you know anybody who's really into steampunk and pens, a couple bottles of scribal would be cool. If somebody's into history, noodlers has so many different inks that are, you know, Aircore Blue or Antietam or Burma Road, you know, so it's like in each of those colors. And I mean, every one of these brands, they make great inks. So it's, I mean, it's just a matter of picking either colors that you like or colors that maybe would mean something to somebody else. Like Deatrimentus did a series of literary figures. So ink colors based on a literary figure. So there's Sherlock Holmes, there's Jane Austen, there's Charles Dickens. And yes, I realized one of those is not an author. Yeah, I ended up with Ben Franklin, Deatrimentus, and that was shockingly good. I think that it's very nice. Yeah, so I mean, I just think there's so many different, you know, I mean, if you know somebody who's particularly, you know, you know, interested in a particular topic, like DMing has a whole set of like a box set of inks that are all based on flowers, like inspired by flowers. So if you know somebody who's a gardener or into flowers or just would think it was pretty and be there, it's like slightly smaller bottles. So there's, I think there's 10 bottles in there and it's about, I think, $89. A little pricey for a gift, but kind of cool. All right, I went with the Roar and Klingner, Scabiosa. And the reason I did that is because I don't think this thing gets enough love. It is, it's because of the name. It's totally because of the name. So I'm going to keep calling it. I'm going to keep saying it. The scab ink. Maybe it sounds more like Harry Potter, like Scabioso. I know, I know. It's totally because of the name. I think that it doesn't get enough love. But when you see this ink on paper, it's one of the coolest, coolest inks going. I always make sure I have some pen inked up with this, usually a wider nib pen because it's got good shading, like a stub nib. It's in my Twisby Mini stub a lot just because I like writing, you know, letters or notes with that and sending them off and people always comment, what's that ink you use? What's that? What is that ink? And it's Roar and Klingner, Scabiosa. I don't even know if I'm saying it right. But I guess it's, I've looked it up before. I guess it's a plant or a berry or something like that is where the name comes from. But it's a beautiful, kind of a dusty, purple ink that I never thought I would like until I got a sample of it. And now I own a bottle of it and it's always loaded because it is just that good. It's just a shame about the name. It is, it is. So I'm going to keep saying it and it's not why people will just buy it and they'll go, oh, I should have bought this Scabio so a long time ago. Brad's ink has Scabies. Mm-hmm. Man, it does. It does. So in regards to paper, I mean, I think I'm maybe not going with the obvious choice. I'm going to pick what's probably the best notebook that I've used in the last year, which is the rodeo web notebook. I've only used one of them just because I've had things like field notes and stuff kind of get in the way and I don't really use this size of notebook anymore. But if you are like a, maybe you've got somebody in your life who is a professional person and they work in an office and everybody has the Moleskine notebook. Well, you can get them one of these and then you can get them either in orange or they have a bunch of colors now as well, as well as just the black and orange standard and they have like turquoise and purple and loads of different, really interesting colors of the web notebook and they had them in different sizes too. But the paper quality is bar none for this type of notebook. And I think that especially if somebody in your life is a fountain pen user, then they're really, really going to love the rodeo paper. Yeah, that's a great choice. I'm very happy with all the web notebooks and pretty much any rodeo product you can't go wrong with. Absolutely. So what do you have on a paper? Okay, I got two things. One is the new standard memorandum agenda from Word notebooks. Have you guys seen this yet? Yes, I've seen the pictures and it looks killer. It's so beautifully designed. Damn you, John Contino. Yeah, I'm a huge John Contino fan. So that's kind of... Absolutely. It's interesting because he did the covers on the don't notebooks, right? Right. They're talking about the special edition. He did the special edition. There was a don't John Contino edition. The one with the burgundy color cover. With the white lettering. But yeah, so this standard memorandum, he kind of John did a bunch of research about his grandfather had these old little pocket agendas that he kept and he noted the weather or any event that happened. And I guess he found this whole box of his 20 years, 30 years of his grandfather's life sort of documented in these little notebooks. And he's like, I want to make some of those. And so he worked with word notebooks. So it's like a tall, skinny format that would probably fit pretty easily in a back pocket or a short pocket. And then the books themselves are $11 for 2014. And then they also have the leather covers that you can slide the book into, which they're selling for 45. And you get the book and the cover for 45. So yeah, I think I'm gonna have to get, I'm gonna have to might have to break down and get one of those because I really like how they look. I think the design the format. The designer says yes, like everything the type is beautiful, the everything he did aesthetically is really nice. And they don't give you a monogram, they do a monogram for free on the live cover as well. Which is kind of classy. So hopefully they'll keep doing this each year and you can just refill the leather cover each year. Kind of just keep track of sort of those little life events and stuff. Well, my paper choice was definitely on the obvious side. I picked up Mike's obvious mantle here. But with a with a specific intent in mind, since a lot of times during the holidays, one of the biggest gifts that people give each other is booze. So I thought that for all your booze loving friends that the field notes drink local ails and loggers pack would is like, it's probably one of the best gifts this Christmas, just even for people who don't use paper and might use notebooks like we use. And if you want to get them into something, that's cool. And they just don't think, yeah, you sent me a notebook. It comes with all the notebooks have the different beer names. Plus, it comes with this cool coaster that they can use. So I think just from a gift perspective, I think this would be one of the coolest things. And if you get a pack of each, that's $20, which is a pretty good gift range price for for people, I think it's kind of a no-brainer Christmas gift for a lot of people that want to, you know, either throw it in, you know, someone's stocking or give it to them as a gift, you know, along with their their bottle of whiskey or their case of beer. Where you could start somebody's field notes subscription. This one. And they would get the vloggers and ails in the package, I think, that comes in the little cardboard carrier that makes it look like a little six pack. Yep, yep. And then they'd get three more over the course of the year plus a set of two sets of craft. A set of mixed and a set of mixed and a set of graph. Is that how it was? But anyway, on that on a side note there, the email came out this week. It did. So stay tuned. New edition. No way, I missed my email. Yeah. Yep. We got mail filters working over time. I think it came out this morning or just last night, something like that. I think it was yesterday. And do you know about that? This marks my renew time. Mine too. I'm hoping my husband gets me another subscription for Christmas. I made a point of saying that make a great gift time. Here's a great idea for you. So yeah, I'm going to be renewing mine this week. One of the best purchases I made in the last year. I love it. Absolutely love it. So I recommend that too. That actually leads quite nicely into my accessory pick. And I know that we spoke about length last week, so we don't need to go into too much detail. But the doxy flip, I think, is a really, really awesome accessory for the person in your life, the pen addict in your life, especially if they use the small notebooks like the field notes allows them to digitize them and just sort of bridges the gap between pen and paper and technology. So I would pick the doxy flip as a real great accessory for you guys having me very interested in those. It's definitely worth it. If you put a lot of notes into a book like a field notes, I would really recommend it. Yeah, it's very cool. I want to bring this thing around and let other people use it just so they can see how cool it is because it's that portable and that easy to use. And it's one of those products that just works and it does a really good job at what it's intended to do. Well, speaking of things you can do with your field notes, my recommendation for an accessory is the groove from Mr. New Deck. Nice, excellent choice. I'm surprised at how much I like mine. I told Mike, I said, you know, I saw them and I thought, yes, that's a very masculine, it's kind of a dude thing. And then I got mine and I'm like, nope, it looks awesome with all my vintage Aesterbrooks standing up upright and proud. Yeah, it is extremely well designed and it's just cool to look at. I think that's Mike's best product yet. Oh, easily. I use mine every day. When I come home, I put my field notes in the groove. And so that's where they live. It's just where I put most of my pens. I think they're fantastic. I really, really love it. My accessory that I chose, it's also something kind of sort of we've talked about recently, at least talked about one product. It's the one star leather goods, Kaviko sport pen case. Now, I don't have this yet. I was going to order it and it just happened that Keegan and I from one, Keegan from one star happened to be conversing about his products and he offered to send me one. I don't ever ask vendors or retailers for products. It just happened that the timing worked out extremely well. I was hoping it would be in before this episode, but it is not yet. But regardless, I would order it and I'll probably order a couple more because I'd like my mini fountain pens like the Kaviko's and like the Franklin Kristoff. And that's what I'm going to use it for is for that crank Franklin Kristoff pocket 40. And I'll probably order another two or three of these just because they're a good price. It's $25. And Mike, you know how well that leather is made and how well it stitched and how cool it looks. I just think for something, this is something I've been looking for, for individual small fountain pens and it looks ideal to me. So I can't wait to get this in. Remember last week I was talking about an iPad case? Yeah. Yeah. One star? I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. Oh yeah. I don't know what I'm, that was a sneeze. I'm sorry I sneezed right there. Sorry. You can edit that out. That sneeze. All right. So now we have a random, random pick. I figured since we had some defined topics, we could include anything from any of those other topics or any other random thing. We wanted to think that would, you know, make a good gift guide selection. So what do you got, Mike? The Cosmonaut Stylus by Studio Neat. Oh, that's a good call. I mean, I know there's been some talk today about this, this new Stylus from the people that make the paper application. I hadn't seen that yet. I'll check that out. Paper. I didn't see that. Yeah. The guys, I think it's 53 is the name of the company and they've made a new Stylus called Pencil and it's like shaped like an architect's pencil and it actually looks like it does some really awesome stuff, but they don't ship to the UK. But also, I mean, they've obviously done something really great, but I think it's, to me, clear that they've taken the cue from the Studio Neat guys in that they've not tried to create a pen. They've tried to create something bigger than a pen because an iPad does not have the precision to make a line like a pen. It just doesn't exist because of their pressure sensitivity is not built into the screens. So Dan and Tom at Studio Neat, they came up with the Cosmonaut, which is, it feels like you're writing with a dry erase marker on the iPad and it's built excellently well. And I've really, really loved mine. I've heard it for a couple of years and it's, and I still use it. It's absolutely fantastic. So it's awesome. I'm actually on my second one because when we moved, I lost the first one I ordered and I said, well, I don't really need a Stylus. I can get along without it. And that lasted about a week and I ordered a second one. Oh, it's that good. I love that Stylus. It is really, really cool. I was, I was looking at the 53, the paper 53 pencil today. And to me, it looks more like a Carpenters pencil. Yeah, that's what they would. Flat wide. But the price point is, I don't know, for Stylus, it makes me a little nervous. The US price is about $60. They have one that's actually like a birch. I think it was a birch or some sort of wood. And then they had one that was aluminum. And I think the black aluminum was maybe $10 cheaper, but still people always talk about, how can you possibly spend $50, $60, $100 on a fountain pen? Because, you know, they always say, oh, I always misplaced mine, I always lose mine. That's how I am with Stylus. I go through them like, I don't know why they just vanish. I cannot keep them. So I cannot bring myself to spend $60. This one has got Bluetooth technology in it as well. And it's doing some funky stuff. I think that's why it's a bit more expensive. Yeah, but I'm curious to hear more about it. Yeah, me too. I'm really frustrated at my hands on one because it looks really cool. Maybe if somebody wants to help me do such a thing, let me know. I'm sure we could find somebody. Yeah. So, well, I went totally random on my selection. And I have been eyeballing a Mason jar cocktail shaker. Nice. Because the sound of ice clinking in a cocktail shaker is the happiest sound in the world to me. So, but my problem is like the metal cocktail shakers, I can never get those stupid things open. So my alcohol is trapped inside. I can't get it out. Which is the worst possible thing to have. The Mason jar one is actually a twist top. So I think I can open that. So, man, I love that. I'm gonna have to check that out. That might go on my list. That's pretty cool. So, for my random, I actually had a couple of things down. And, Anna, you covered one of them. The Guele Pen's ink drop, I think, is a great choice for a gift. Just for all the things you said, you get to try these inks. You can purchase it for X amount of months as a gift. And along those same lines, my other choice is also a subscription type service that you can give as a gift. And that's art snacks. They do a cool little box. Once a month, you get four or five different art supplies for, you know, this is a great one for kids or for like teenagers that are, you know, an art into art and school. Or, you know, even for those for, you know, your significant others that, you know, like to draw an experiment with new products. This kind of forces your hand by sending you different things that you maybe didn't know that you wanted or liked. And you can try different things. I mean, it comes with all different types of pens or paints or brushes or erasers, just really all kinds of cool, cool little things that you get in a box once a month. And now, you know, they sponsor the show before and they've always been on my radar as a great gift option for someone out there. Listen to this. Oh, yeah. That was my last one. I still get it every month. Nice. You've been liking it still. It's, I don't use a lot of the stuff that comes in it. Like, there's been a few things where I've used, but I really like receiving it. It's not that expensive. And I end up with a bunch of really cool things. Like, there are stuff in there. Like, there's a bunch of markers that I have. So I have a bunch of like cool permanent markers now. And they've got loads of like, jewel pens, you know, like brush tips and like, like one side and like a fine felt tip on the other. Just really cool stuff. And they include an American suite in each one, which I enjoy. What was the latest? Oh, I think it was some... Oh, I think it was laughy-taffy. We never had before. How much is the subscription? It's 20 a month, I believe. Yeah, something like that. That's not bad. You just, you just end up with a really random list. Like, you just, I've really sort of random box of stuff. It's $20 a month. And you get four to five items in each pack. I think it's cool. It's just a cool little thing to get. Yep. Very cool. So we aren't sort of wishless now. Yeah, let's, let's see what we, what we want. What our listeners are getting us for Christmas. So aside from the two that I've had added to my list, which is the Kawako art. And I'm really interested in the acts here, acts here, color, which is like a sort of black, and I see all one, which is really nice. And the Franklin Christoff, of course, I want a Pelican. I don't know what one I want, because I'm scared of them. Oh my god. I think... You stole my wishlist item. Well, I haven't given a specific model. So I just want a Pelican. I don't know what Pelican I want. I'm kind of intimidated by them. So basically for me, I want one that somebody picks for me that they know is the right one. Interesting. Well, I put on my wishlist is the Pelican M205. And when I told a friend of mine that I was thinking about getting one and I wasn't sure fine, extra fine, something else, you know, she actually made a point of stopping whatever she was doing and writing me a letter with her M205 fine to show me what it would look like. Oh wow. And mailed it to me. And then like two weeks later, her pen case, I guess she left it on the train and she lost her M205. She did. She lost her M205. And she lost her Twisbee and a couple of other pens. So I sent her my Twisbee 540, because I felt so bad. I kept my mini, but I sent her my 540. But yeah, because I couldn't really replace her M205. This is something you need to do with knock, Brad, you need to make an unlosable pen case. Yeah, well, we're going to put some tracking in there and I'm going to get started working with the NSA. Yeah, I'm going to give them a call. Because you can imagine somebody somebody found her pen case on the train and was like, "I don't want any of this stuff. This wasn't money. This wasn't credit cards. This is a bunch of pens and a glue stick." And they threw it, they probably threw it out. No, isn't that awful? Yeah. So anyway, so M205 is on my list. So it's two pelicans. Which pelican? Oh, you know, I've gone back and forth. I've started with the white, then I said red, and now I'm on to black. So any of the colors would be fine. Which one are you going to get me? Yeah, they're all good. They're all good. I thought you might go a demonstrator style with the green. I thought about it, but it comes with a double broad so I'd have to have somebody buy me an extra NAB2. The classic red, white, or black is it's hard to go wrong with any of those. Yeah, they're beautiful. So a pen that's been on my wish list for a while, and I don't know if or when I will ever get it because it's pretty expensive. But I've been fascinated ever since he introduced it. And that's Brian Gray's Edison Menlo pump filler. So what it is is Brian took an old style filling system and modernized it into fitting his pens, which you know, I love Edison pens as it is. And this is it looks like the old vacuumatic type filling system, but which no one makes anymore. And that's maybe oversimplifying it. I think it's probably a bit a little bit more detailed than that. We'll put a link into the show notes you can read about this filling system. But ever since Brian has released this pen, I've been eyeballing it, but it's pretty expensive. I want to say it starts like around 350. Yeah, so it's a 350. But and since it's not a production line pen, it's a signature line pen. And the way that works with Edison, if I did get to do this, well, he does have some that he makes, I guess that are standard colors is a group of standard colors. But what you can do is you can actually specify some of the colors. I think that's a little more expensive to do that. Do a little bit beautiful though. Oh boy. Yeah. So I don't know this, this isn't something I'm getting for Christmas. It's, but it's one of the top items on my wish list. Just because it's, I mean, it's super stunning looking. Yeah, I don't, I can't say enough about this pen. I'm going to send this link to Anna that I just found. And she's going to, she's going to yell at me. So great. I just happened to stumble across this as I was scrolling through the Edison page. It's pretty awesome. You are evil. I guess I should share this with Mike so he could see what I'm yelling at. But I found a nice, I found a nice translucent green one on there that I will have to. That's pretty, that's pretty sexy. So I don't, that's, it's on, that's pretty close to the top of my, my wish list. So yeah, the Edison Menlo pump filler. So that's something I want. I also put down that, you know, even if I, if I didn't get a fountain pen, like for Christmas, one of the things I've been waiting for is for Mike Masuyama to get relocated out to L.A. So I could send him three or four pens for NIB work. I mean, that's a good gift to give to myself because it's, it's not cheap and it's not something you do all the time and you got to send your pens off for a month or two at a time. But I've been saving up for, and, and having some nibs to keep getting worked on. And yeah, so that's, that's really what I want to do for myself, probably, for Christmas. There we go. I think that's it. Yeah. Well, I think we got some good ideas here for people. Hopefully, maybe, maybe people should send us what's on their wish list for Christmas. I think on Twitter, they can send me an honor because I would love to see you always learn so much from our listeners and our Twitter followers and things like that. So see what's on everyone else's radar. Totally. I would love to see that. So Mike, you want to tell them how to get in touch? Yes, please. I would love to. So you can get in touch with me. I am, I'm Mike. I am YKE. If you'd like to get in touch with Mr. Brad Dowdy, he is at Dowdy. And Anna, you are at well A-P-T desk, right? A-P-P-T. A-P-P-T. Oh, so close. Well, at well, A-P-P-T desk. And Anna also writes at the well-appointed desk. And Brad is at the pan addict. So, is that everything for everyone? I think we got it, sir. Yep. Thanks, Anna. Anna, thank you for joining us. It's always a pleasure. Thank you for having me on again. Yeah, it's a real pleasure every time you're on. Thanks, guys. And that's it for this week's episode of the pan addict. If you'd like to grab any of the links in our massive show notes this week, you can go to 5by5.tv/pan addict/81. And me and Brad will be back next week. And if you need our shipping addresses, then just let us know. And thanks so much for listening. Say goodbye, Brad. Say goodbye, Anna. Goodbye, Anna.
