Hello and welcome to episode 78 of the Panatic Podcast on Fire by Five. The Panatic is a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper, and the analog tools that we love so dearly. My name is Michael Herley, today. I am joined by two beautiful men today. Alright, that is of course Mr Brad Dowdy, hello Brad. Hey Mike, how's it going? And I am joined by the one and only... Jeff, Brooke Quickie, Brooke Quickie, Hi Jeff, now there's a very specific reason for that music. As we are in the final countdown. Yes sir, we're excited. So as we are recording, we were recording a little bit early today, so hopefully we can get this show out in time, people to hear it. We are 17 hours away from NOCCO, being funded and completing the Kickstarter, so I would like to take this opportunity while I have you two beautiful, very successful gentlemen on the other end of the phone to congratulate you for your incredible, incredible performance. Well, thanks, I mean it's... I can't believe it's about the end, I think when it started, yeah I think when it started I was like "Man, 30 days is gonna take forever" and then the next thing you know, you know, I'm looking a couple days ago and it's like, the thing switches to hours, I think when there's about two days left. And I was like, "Why does this say 41?" I was like, "Oh, that's hours!" and that's when it kind of gets real all of a sudden again. Do you have that thing yet where it says what percentage you are or does that come at the end? No, we've got it, I'll get it for you. I think we're like 1,400 percent or something crazy. Why not? Why not 40? Why not a 4-digit percentage number? Yeah, 1,483 percent. Right, so as we speak you have 1,945 backers who have pledged a total of $74,171 against the goal of $5,000. Now we want to talk about this today, of course we do, but we do have one little item of follow-ups, also Kickstarter related. So last week's episode we spoke about the draft notebook, which is the notebook that you scan and send it off. And it seems to the cloud. And one of the things that me and Brad spoke about was the fact that it seems strange to us that you couldn't just do one at a time if you wanted to. Well, in an update to the draft kickstarter page, they have announced a new funding level, so for $25 you can get one notebook and you can just do it whenever you want, send it back whenever you want. That's that kind of thing. It's not like a monthly thing of a bubble. Yeah, so John and Marshall reached out to us on Twitter after the episode last week. It was actually pretty quick. It was like we had barely posted and I didn't know anyone had time to listen to it. And then the two guys we talked about somehow found it and we're hitting us up on Twitter. Super nice guys. Maybe they're as nice as they are. Maybe they're some sort somehow involved in the NSA. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I'm being monitored for sure. There's no doubt for my relationship with Jeffrey Brooke with you. Yep. But yeah, they reached out to us and just understood our concerns. And you know, one thing I missed last week, Mike, and I don't know how I miss this. So when you send your notebook back to get scanned in, it's essentially destroyed. You don't get your notebook back. Oh, so I didn't put that together last week until I was reading on notebook stories. Nifty did a little more in-depth conversation about it and that's when I realized that, I mean, that kind of makes sense because they're going to have to rip it apart to scan it in and they're not going to send it back to you because that's more shipping cost. So you're going to have this notebook that you've put your handiwork in with pen or pencil and just pour in your thoughts into it and it's going to go get digitized, but that notebook's going to go away, right? So the notebook will be essentially destroyed, but that brings about the other part of security. I write things in my notebook that me and Jeff are working on, like, prototype-type stuff, like, and I don't want necessarily that stuff being shared, so that wouldn't be something I put in here. So maybe if you're just like a straight-up artist or something, this would look good, but then your original artwork is also going to get damaged and... I guess it depends. I mean, really, I don't know if I really open that many notebooks after I've finished with them. I know, I know. There's lots of things to think about and what should be a pretty straightforward, simple project and that's really looks really well done and really nicely set up. There's kind of a lot of what ifs and can I wrap my head around what's actually happening here and things like that. But I mean, I still think it looks good. I don't think it's for me, but I mean, I think some people would find this useful. I would. I would actually use it. Yeah. I would. If this was like, if I was able to back it in the UK, then I would actually do it. Yeah. Yeah. It's just enough for me to think that it's something that I would want, you know, just to be able to take notes about stuff and just have them scanned and that would be very useful. Just to have it all searchable, like computer searchable, that would be really interesting to me. Yeah. I still think about it because the three-month subscription level is only 29 bucks. I mean, that's totally fair. Yeah. I mean, I would do it. But yeah. So good luck to them. I hope that they are as successful as you. Yeah, they got a lot of, got a little ways to go, but they can, maybe make it. We'll see. It'll be close, I think. I think they've just got to, you know, convince a few people of a few things and they'll be rolling. But yeah, it'll be close. So I'll think about it. I might just do it to do it and see what the whole process is like. I think they'll send you a book. Yeah. You can just do it yourself. That's right. You can have one of my months. I tell you what I'm going to do in the future. I'm just going to mail all of my field notes to Jeff and then he can just like write them out on like to the computer for me. That'll be great. Yeah. And I'll do the same thing that I do with my notebooks and forget them somewhere and then my wife will throw them out. That'd be perfect. That sounds like a very similar system. Yeah. And you can get some, you can get some really cool sketches of me in those, in Jeff's notebooks. So I want to, obviously, we're going to talk about, about the Kickstarter and where you guys are now and sort of, you know, what's next now that we've had the 30 days. So I figure maybe we should, maybe we should thank Squarespace now and then we can have a clear run through to the end. Does that sound good? Seems like a natural break point in the show. Yeah. I think that's fine. So these fine gentlemen, they are users and supporters of Squarespace. Let me tell you, Squarespace are, they are the all-in-one platform that makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website or online portfolio. For a free trial of Squarespace and 10% off, go to squarespace.com and use the offer code tallyhoten. So Squarespace, do all some stuff. If you're looking to create a site for you, maybe you want your own blog, like I have Mike Hurley.net there and Brad has the pan addict.com there as well. Is it pan addict or the pan addict? I always forget how many times have we gone over this? Not enough times, clearly. Yeah. So it's pan addict.com, but you yelled at me for months. You need to go by the domain, the pan addict.com and redirect it, which I finally did. Yep, which I was happy that you did that. So we have our own personal and zit me to hover. Let's have some real cross promotion right there. So, yeah, we got that. So if you want to set up a blog there, you can do that. Maybe you're a business. You can set up your business site there or an artist. You want to portfolio. Or maybe you are, you want to sell something online where you can do that too with Squarespace Commos, which allows you to sell physical and digital goods. These fine gentlemen that are with me today, they are setting up the Knockco website that's knockco.com. Yep, and find the blog and all that stuff. And that's also where you will be able to go after the Kickstarter campaign is all squared up and buy their wonderful projects and projects. Let me tell you why. Let me tell you why I believe that these gentlemen chose this is because Squarespace have fantastic features, really easy to build pages with Squarespace. Everything's whizziwicks or what you do, what you see is what you get. So as you're dragging sliders around the page, it's automatically updating for you in front of your very eyes. You want to change colors and fonts and all updates so you can see exactly how any changes you want to make are going to look. But they have beautiful award-winning templates that you can build your site from. It's so easy to use, but they have a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week support team. Brad has contacted them during his insane work hours in the middle of the night, and they've been there right for him, so they're all some with that. It's definitely the truth, we know that much. I mean, the other side of the globe to Squarespace, and they respond to me whenever I need them to. Squarespace plans start at just $8 a month. They include a free domain name if you sign up for a year. I want you to go and try them out, and I'm sure that you're going to fall in love. So go to squarespace.com, sign up for a free trial, no credit card needed. When you decide to sign up and purchase an account with them, you'll get 10% off if you use the offer code TALIHO10 that's T-A-L-L-Y-H-O-1-0. Thanks so much to Squarespace for the support of Panadicton all the 5x5. They give you everything you need to create an exceptional website. So you too are in the tail end of the roller coaster. You are pulling back into the station to be helped out with the carriage by an attendant. I believe that's an apt metaphor. The project has had an incredible start, like a really incredible start, and you've been building really strongly up to this point now where you are. Has anything changed in the last day or so? I know that a lot of projects they see in uptick again. Are you guys experiencing that yet? Yeah, it has been. I think the first week, week and a half was pretty rapidly in an upward angle. There were lots of backers each day, and then for like a two-week period in the middle, it kind of slowed down some to where it was just very steady every day, just a small amount every day. It was almost the same for about two weeks straight, and then starting about two, three days ago, we started to see an uptick again. So I thought we'd finish around 65 or 70 the way things were tracking, but that last little uptick is the truth. Dan Bishop from Cara's Customs told me this would happen, and that's exactly what's happened. So we're getting these last minute backers and everyone coming to the site and getting a definite increase in pledges. So it's been awesome. It's been awesome to see. So is the excitement maintaining or is it just norm now? It's like, oh, these people just keep buying our products. Jeff, how does that feel for you? I mean, for me, I don't know, to be honest. It's one of those things where, and like Brad and I spoke about it some, it's like, oh, we're so close to 75. I know they were at 74, and we wanted $5,000, but it's like, can somebody just give me a little extra money? Come on. I know you have it, but it's been really exciting, just the whole process. And the first day was the most mind-blowing day. I think I've had a really long time just seeing it go from zero to 5,000 in the first hour, and then 20,000 by the end of that day. Nothing could have happened unless everybody pulled out that would have made this any type of failure to us. So obviously I've spoken to Brad about this some, but what was that first day like for you? I mean, going into it, Brad's this crazy internet guy, and he's got these lofty dreams of being able to make $5,000. Did you think he was crazy? No, because we met face-to-face for the first time two months before we launched the product, almost to the day. That was it. The first day we met in person, we decided that we would move forward with it, that it was a good idea. And I think by the end of two weeks or so, we had all the numbers crunched, and we knew that it would be a viable product to sell. And because of his internet reach in yours as well, Mike, we really knew that we could get at least five grand. That was the hope at least, because that would give us everything we needed to continue with the business. So, go on, Brad. No, I don't know. I didn't think that I wasn't afraid of $5,000. We were talking about $7,000 or $8,000 initially, and that was a little more scary to me, I think. And I know now it seems minute, but at the time, it's twice as much almost. So, how did it feel when you sort of blew through that in the first hour? How did that feel? It was surprising. It was stressful as well, because it's like, oh, we planned to do $5,000, and it was this many cases estimated out to, and we've now gotten to four times that. It was very stressful. It's funny, the conversations we had about just setting our goal were long and intense, and we were sweating our goal. We knew it wasn't going to be less than $5,000, but we were talking about putting it at $7,000 or $8,000. We thought it would be crazy to go to $10,000. We're like, what if it doesn't fund? We at least want to fund to make these machines so we can open our shop. So, we really sweated those few thousand dollars between $5,000 and $8,000 to put in our goal. And then when it blew by it so fast, it was like, what's happening here? And when is it going to stop? And it did start to freak us out the first couple days. We were really, I mean, I was stressed. I know Jeff was stressed, but it wasn't necessarily in a bad way. It was just like, okay, we need to kind of reboot and recalibrate what our expectations are and look at preparing to fulfill a little bit differently than we were before. So, by the time we were about a week into it, maybe a week and a half, I think Jeff and I had talked so much, and we had kind of redone some things on the back end that we felt, okay, if this keeps going, these are the big numbers that we can handle at these levels like $50,000 or went to $100,000, whatever, we're trying to plan ahead. And once we realized that we could do that and handle that no problem, I think our stress level went way down. So I've just gone to the Knockco website to put it into the show notes, which you can find at 5x5.tv/panadex/78. And I see that you put the final count down on the... Yeah, you didn't know that. I figured that's why you did it. No, I just did it. No, that's awesome. I did that this morning. I had to put that out there because Jeff had done it like when we were getting ready to launch, before we were live, Jeff had tweeted it out that video. So I put it in there at the end here, as we're winding down, I figured you'd just seen that off of there. No, I just... We're like one mind of three of us is kind of scary. That's awesome. It is the universal song of success. I want to write the universal song of success. I know. Well, that thing's got... That video has 52 million views. Wow. It's probably just for people doing things like what I just did. I know. It's basically like getting Rick rolled. So, Jeff, tell me if you started production. I have. I started cutting them out and seeing... Because how we're cutting, we're using a CNC machine. So, you build out the cut sheet on a table digitally. So, we've been kind of playing around with how many cases we can fit per table and how does that relay to time and all of these things. So, we've got almost 60 Mary Apples done in the Blue Jay and then we're working on some brass towns for the early birds so we can get that fulfillment out quickly. Look at you. So, tell me. I mean, obviously, you've been doing this stuff for a long time. How are these cases coming together? Are you happy with the original designs? Are they coming together really well for you? Are you finding any difficult points? They're not difficult. I mean, we're working with a different machine that I've ever worked with before with the bar tacker. We've already acquired that one and we acquired one other machine with our own funds that's just going to do the binding. So, we're set up a little more efficiently. But the bar tacker is the real oddball. There's so many adjustments on it. We've got this repairman in Georgia. He's been a repairman for 50 years. I've been having conversations with him for the last week just learning this machine and trying to tweak it. So, if it breaks, I can fix it on the fly and we don't have to, you know, be down for days or weeks or anything. So, I guess, you know, the best thing for you to do is to do all of that now, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the goal was to be prepared for, you know, in 17 hours or whatever, after we get the surveys back, we're ready to go. We just have our cut list and we do it. So, obviously, going back. That was, I was going to say that was one of the coolest things about working with Jeff because I don't know anything about the manufacturing side. And he's got this down to a tee. He's like, I really want to get this bar tacker machine. I'm like, okay, that's great. You know, it's going to give us this stitch and, you know, we're going to be able to do this. And, you know, it's going to be exactly what we need. He said, but what I really want to do is I want to get it early because I need to understand this machine. And if it breaks, you know, I need to know how to fix it. So, I'm not having to call someone out to repair. And, you know, that's the stuff that I wouldn't have considered on the front end. And he says stuff like that. I'm like, oh, man, I'm glad I'm working with this guy because he's got his stuff together. It's like, I wouldn't even consider that. So, you guys are really kind of like the perfect partnership for this because you've got, Brad, obviously, you've got the expertise in this very specific field. And then, Jeff, you have the ability to actually make the stuff like without each other, you know, it would, I wonder if you could have made, if you could have done this. I'm not sure we could have. I mean, I don't think that I could have. Well, I was going to say, I definitely know Brad couldn't, but, you know, because he, you know, he can't sew. Yeah. Not yet. Oh, we will be. Don't worry about that. Yeah, he keeps threatening to get me behind the machine. We're going to see how well that's going to work out for him. Well, yeah, you have a few thousand of these things to make. Mr, you better roll your sleeves up. Yeah. So, whoever gets crooked binding, you know, those are ones together. Not, of course, that won't happen. That will never happen. That will never happen. You know, I, like, I wouldn't, yeah. Jeff knows how particular I am and Jeff's the same way. And we look at things and we're like, oh, no, no, no, this isn't, this doesn't leave the house. We'll just have to give that. My kids have a good stack going of some prototypes that, you know, we're, we're not made for prime time yet. So, yeah, we won't send anything out. That's just right on the money. The kids are doing the stress testing. They are, especially my daughter, she keeps asking for more. She like fills one up. I need another one. I'm like, I don't have any more. I bet she's just filling them up with your pens as well. Cause they're like a never ending collection. They are. They, they, she does know which ones are mine and she goes and gets them and fills up her pen case. Yeah. That's hilarious. So, when are we thinking that the first products are going to be going out of the door? I mean, I know it's really early to, I mean, you know, it's kind of that question. Like you're not, you've not even received a penny and you won't maybe for a little while to go. Yeah. I mean, I don't know a couple of weeks, couple of months. I don't know what the time period is. I know that we've spoken about it's like a nebulous time period. Yeah. But when do you think you're going to be in a position that you'll be able to start sending stuff out? So there's kind of two phases, the first phase being really small that we have a 20, excuse me, a 200 count brass town early bird backer. Better just be a hundred. No. Scroll down. Scroll down. Uh oh. Where is it? 100. 100. 100. Where are you? You just can't trust this guy for anything. I know. I know. I know. I was pushing. I remember I was pushing for 200 and we're like, maybe not so much because you never know how that, you know, how the manufacturing is going to go. And so we gave, we gave those a December 2013 estimated delivery. That's going to be a non-issue. I think we'll ship those in November. Probably before Thanksgiving. Yeah, just, you know, we're, because of how this goes and because the quantities that we are ending up having to do, there's some delays and things like that with getting the pieces for the cases. Like, you know, the zipper and things like that, we have to order such a quantity to fulfill these that they have to make the zipper for us. Right. And that's something that we just didn't even imagine. It's YKK. You know, it's one of the largest zipper manufacturers in the world, if not the largest. And they have to make, you know, this amount of zipper just for us. And it's going to be, you know, a week or two for them to complete that. But you're still thinking that January, but like by January, we'll be. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but that's why we wanted to get started early. So we can get past these things like the zipper, you know, as soon as if we waited till the money comes in and then we call YKK and they say, we don't have that stock, we're going to have to make it. Well, then I've waited two weeks for the money and then I'm waiting two more weeks for YKK and that's killing me. So that's why we wanted to go ahead and get everything rolling. So we might have zippers before I even get money from Kickstarter, you know, to apply to that, to that cost. So on the behalf of the backers of which I am one, I want to thank you guys for actually doing that because you didn't have to do that. And you could kind of just be like, sorry guys, this is what happens. But instead you've put your money where your pencil cases are. Yeah, I mean, it's important. It's important to us. We want to not just make a great product. You know, we want to give everyone a good experience, you know, working with us, you know, as not co because you're building a customer base, right? Yeah, this is going to be a sustainable business. I mean, like I've said, dozen times on this on this show, this isn't just a Kickstarter company, right? I mean, we're so excited for the next phase already. And actually, Jeff brought me prototypes today for new products that, you know, we're looking to launch next year. So we're already starting down that path. So we have to nail this delivery and this fulfillment for this Kickstarter project and we're doing everything we can to do that. I mean, you know, talking about the shipping, you do have one really, like, important order to fulfill that, right? There's like, there's one that has to go, I think, TD Knight Kingdom that apparently is quite important. My understanding. My buddy up in ribbon ordered something I think I do. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that guy. I thought you were talking about the queen. Well, I mean, yeah, she ordered something. I'm just looking at the page as well. I see somebody bought dinner with you. Yeah, yeah, we'll see how that works out. So, I mean, all kicks. I mean, we kind of joked about that. I know. And somebody's actually done it. Who wants to eat dinner with you guys? Who wants to eat dinner with you guys? I know, right. I mean, have you seen us? It's a shame, really. Maybe we'll just do a Skype dinner. We'll, like, we'll, like, send out an order with, like, white tablecloth and candles and wine. And we'll just set up a Skype session. The custom pain case, though, man, that's going to be cool. That would be cool. And, man, the designs we have in our head, too, are just our mind boggling. So, yeah. Looking good. Looking good. Come and tell me something. What are you guys working on next? What are we going to get after the pain cases? Come on. You're putting me on the spot there. I am. Jeff's holding a knife to you right now, isn't he? Yeah, no, no. But, I mean, I think he's on the same page as me. You know, you don't want to say it if it's not going to come true. You don't need to say it. You can just, you know, hint, what sort of... Okay, let me ask this, then. Are you looking at products outside of a pen, hop storage facilities? Yes. Okay. And that's exactly how I was going to answer it. There will be products besides pen cases. Are you going to make... That was one question. A sleeping bag. Yeah, I'm going to make the... What's the one polar makes? Oh, the nap. Yeah, it's like a jacket, but it's a sleeping bag. It gets like a full-length sleeping bag, but you walk around in it. This thing. Yeah, that's what we're going to make next. It's going to be a human case instead of a pen case. I like the sound of this. This is all really great stuff. Yeah, and then it'll modify from one person to two people with the zippers. You can just attach the two sides. You can also crush it down into a pen case. So... Do you have any sense for international orders? Like, have there been lots of international orders? Do you know that? Yeah, I would say lots, yeah. Really? I don't have a breakdown. It's a large number. Yeah, at least, I mean, I would say over 25% just based on the customers we've spoken with, like through the Kickstarter page or through email or something like that. A lot of that's been international. Just if I had to guess, I was thinking about 25%. Does that make you think any differently when you're pimping the made in America stuff? Does that make you think any differently? I mean, it probably shouldn't, but I just wonder. No, no, it makes us excited to get that exposure. I mean, we've talked to a lot of people in the UK, a lot of people in Germany, Spain and France, I think, seem to be the main where the main orders were coming from, and it's quite a lot. I'll be interested to find out the person is the furthest away. Yeah, that's a good question. I wonder what country will be the furthest country that you have to ship to. Yeah, I know we've had some India. That's cool. Singapore was like the most obscure one. Wow, that's incredible, right? All the way out in Singapore. Yep, that's going to be cool. I mean, that person's listening right now. I hope so. I hope so. It's going to be cool to be able to ship these all over the world and get the feedback from different people using them from different things and help us learn how to continue to make even better products. I mean, it can only be good. So let's look at a little bit about the future business model of your company. We have a Kickstarter project, which has given you initial funding to set up the company to get some of the tools that you need also to build a customer base. And then as we've mentioned before, you're then going to have an ongoing store, which will be at notco.com. But then when you are launching new products, do you think that you will launch them directly? Do you think you might go around the Kickstarter route again? No, I think we're going to launch directly. Oh, that's quite interesting to me. What if you went with something really sort of out there? Yeah, I think we would consider Kickstarter for a large project if we needed specific machinery tooling. If we were trying to accomplish something very specific or very large, I don't think you're going to see pen cases from us on Kickstarter again, but you could see something different. I mean, there's no product in my head that I'm thinking of. I'm not being coy. I'm just saying that there could be another Kickstarter project. What about if you wanted to make a pen, right? You know, you would need new tools to actually do that. Yeah, oh, I'm not opposed to going back to Kickstarter for different types of funding, but I think in general, when we launch new products, they're going to be through the online store. I don't actually think it'd be possible for you to make a pen. I feel like you wouldn't be able to settle with yourself. Yeah, I think that's what's prevented me from doing that for so long. And you and I have talked for years about, you know, me starting something. Yeah. And I think my hesitancy before was always that I didn't want to do a pen for kind of that reason. It was like, well, how am I going to, you know, design this or am I going to come out? Are we going to be happy with it? It would have to be the perfect pen. Right. In theory, you know, because of the type of person that you are, you would need to eat. It wouldn't be allowed to have a floor. Right. That would, that would probably keep me up at night a lot. That would be difficult. Which is why I never did it, which is why it took so long to just find the right, the thing that I felt was right and the, you know, the business partner that I felt was right to work with. Because I guess with what you guys are making now, it's easier to make a product that is without floors, I imagine, just because the intricacies of a pen and the variables that are there are extremely high, but with great materials put together in a really great way, I assume it's probably a bit easier to nail what you guys are doing. You can please correct me if I'm wrong. No, and I think being able to control the manufacturing gives us a huge amount of leeway as well. We're not ordering, you know, a thousand in each color in each type from some factory, you know, and each case is a living thing, if you will, you know, like if 20 people have a complaint about the high tower, then we might be able to alter something small in that, and it'll be a different usability within that case. And with a pen or something like that, I don't think you can do that as easily. You can't have 100 versions of the same pen, because we obviously can't manufacture it ourselves. It'd be through a third party, and there would be a, be very tricky. And he always has different favorite pens too. Yeah, that's the thing, right? That would make it a bit difficult. You know, you've just mentioned something there, Jeff, which is such an obvious point, but it's only really just just occurred to me now. What kind of makes the Kickstarter that you two are doing different to many kick stars of this type is the people that are making it are the ones that are, like the guys are actually putting it together are the ones that are putting up the page. Quite frequently, with many of these projects, not all, but many, you will see a, I don't know, what they call the project owners? Is that the right term? They will have contractors that make the stuff for them, like just look at the vision air, for example, the vision air compared to the render case, so the caris customs, they make their stuff themselves. Right. And the vision air, we have absolutely no idea what he's doing. Right. Right. You know, and see, that's quite interesting to me that you guys are actually building this stuff. That's cool. That's really cool, because I think it's quite rare even with this, because you have to have the experience, which doesn't, you know, not everybody has, especially people that are interested in kickstarter, because they tend to be a more techie bunch. Mm hmm. I mean, I think that was important to us from the get-go just for our future business growth. We, Jeff and I, want to have that flexibility that you can only get when you're the one with your hands on the product. You know, you know, we're going to be touching all these products ourselves, the stitches that go, you know, on these cases or, you know, being laid down by Jeff's hands. And that's important to us, because, you know, like Jeff was alluding to, we can adjust on the fly if needed to, from a manufacturing perspective. But what's important to me is to have that, I don't know, fast turnaround for future projects to where I could sketch up a prototype. And in a week, Jeff's got something cut and stitched in my hands. And we can say, oh, this is crap, or oh, this might be interesting. And I think that's the only, well, not the only way for us to go forward. But I think that's the best way in our situation for what we're trying to accomplish, you know, not to be, we don't want to be like a, like a pin case mill that's just going to make generic, you know, two or three products over and over again, we want to make unique stuff constantly. So, you know, having that, that hands-on manufacturing, I think for us is the only way to go. And I'm pleased. So are we? So we are now at 1,947 backers at 74,74,271. It's one of the interesting things that you've got as opposed to backers is, you know, people can raise their pledges. So for anybody listening to this, what would be the reason in your mind, Brad, for somebody, you know, who's maybe at the $30 level to maybe bump up to one of the other project levels, like the plaging levels? I think there's such a, there's a variance in the products, a variety of uses for the products. Just Jeff coming over to the house today, I've showed him what I've used my chimney top for. I don't even use it for pens, but I use it for pen-related things. I have all my spare nibs in one of our chimney top cases, and it's totally the perfect case. And then, you know, I have something completely on the opposite side of the thing in the brass town with the rollout tongue where I can protect the nice pens that I want, but then I've got that little extra pouch where I can throw in like a phone cable and a pocket knife that, you know, I carry around with me. There's so many different uses for each of these cases, and heck, there's probably uses we haven't even thought of yet that someone, I know as soon as we send out these prototypes, people were doing things that we hadn't even considered with them. You know, like Ed Jelly, you know, had one to look out the three pen holsters and the way he was attaching his notebooks to it. I was like, we didn't even consider that. And, you know, that's kind of a nice little thing. And then that gives us, you know, ideas for future projects that, you know, hey, let's, let's get something out around this and things like that. So, I think there's a lot of flexibility in all of the products to where you can really kind of make them fit what you need to happen with the cases. It's such a shame that that my prototype got lost in the post. That's crazy, isn't it? It's so sad that that happened. Well, you know how many more prototypes you have than me? None. Zero. Zero. Send them all out. Yeah. But I bet you've got, I bet you've got products now, though. No, I know. I've got an old, I've got it, I'm using a brass town. That's not even our final version, because we changed it from the one that I'm using. I guess the chimney tops I have are about the final ones. So I'm using already. So yeah, we, no, we've, we'll have some more coming soon. So, but yeah, I don't have a lot. You and I have the same amount of product of actual prototypes. Yeah, it's just the new one that no one else has seen. That's what I carry every day. Because nobody else can see it or have it in their hands right now. So it's the only way that I'm able to use one of our cases. Yep. Okay. So, gentlemen, is there anything else that you would like to add? I mean, I want to make sure that people hear this before the project is over. So, Jeff, I mean, if you've got anything that you want to add to the listeners, to the backers, some sure a lot of our listeners will actually be back as a top project. I just want to thank everyone for their support thus far. I mean, it's been great the response that we have gotten, especially on Twitter and everybody like dealing with my pog stuff and stupidity. And then just, you know, a lot of people have sent really kind of words about what's to come in the future and them still supporting us. And we really don't want to let anybody down with what we're going to do coming up. And I don't know. I guess it's just one big thanks. And I also wanted to ask, do you write down your Squarespace ad scripts? Okay. So this is an inside thing. I have a script that is set. It is a set script, but that's the same script every week, which I do not read. I will use it for talking points and refer to it. But more often than not, I mean, I know that script so well, I actually know the features, well, I know the features of Squarespace so well now that I can just talk to you about it. And every ad is, I try to make every idea. Right. So what you're saying is you're a real pro. It is a pro. Of course I'm a pro. Come on in, Dowdy. What have you got? What do you want to say? I echo a lot of Jeff sentiments. The support we have received has been, I guess, mind-blowing, life-changing. It could be. This community that we're all a part of, if you're listening to this podcast or reading the panetic blog, has been one of the most important things in my life, just from meeting people and meeting like-minded people and just the support that everyone's given has been amazing. So I just wanted to thank everyone. And I really wanted to thank Jeff too, because without him, I wouldn't be doing this. I can promise you that. I couldn't imagine just having a better partner in doing this. And we're just scratching the surface. I'm pretty sure. It's the way I feel right now with all the support we've gotten and with the plans that we have. I think the best is yet to come. And that's no exaggeration. So obviously, as I assumed from you two, lovely gentleman, that you are very, you are very, very kind and nice to the people. Of course you are, and you're very humble. So I'm going to step in now and say, "Listen up." You only have a few hours left to get involved in this. If for any insane reason you have not backed this project, then you need to do it now. You need to buck your ideas up, pull your socks up, and go to knockco.com. You'll find the links that kickstart are there. Going back the project that these fine gentlemen are doing, because not only will it give you that warm fuzzy feeling inside, you will receive a beautifully crafted, handmade product at the end to keep your lovely pens safe and secure. And if you are one of the amazing people that have already backed the project, find a way to give these guys more money. Just do it. You know, it's not hard. Just go back to the kickstart page and, you know, just maybe bump up a bit. And if you're at the top then, okay, you're okay. Maybe set up another kickstart or account and do another one. So, gentlemen, is that the good place for people to go knockco.com, NOCKCO.com? That's where they can find the links to everything they're going to need, right? Yep. All the links are there. Links to the kickstarter are there. Make sure if you are a kickstarter back or even not, or even just interested in the company. Follow our Instagram feed because Jeff puts a lot of the production photos on there as things are progressing along. So that's been a fun feed to watch. And I try to share out some of those images as often as I can so people can actually see their cases being made. So that's pretty cool. So yeah, that's the best place to go. You can get all the information about NOCCO. There's going to be a lot more coming up soon because I think next week is the day that I have decided to just start working eight hours a day on cases. Wow. Yep. So you'll see lots of action here coming up. Follow that Instagram. Follow that Instagram. Yeah, for sure. All those great pictures. Yeah, I think that's good. I mean, it also as well people. I've made sure the links to the stuff are in the show notes, which again are at 5x5.tv/penadict/78. If you want to catch up with Brad, then please do so by going to penadict.com or he is @doudism, d-o-w-d-y-i-s-m. Jeffrey, do you use Twitter enough that you would like people to contact you personally or should they just go through the NOCCO Twitter? If it's during regular business hours, I will be manning the NOCCO handle, which is nothing but fun. School. Pogs and fun times. All pogs and fun times and trying to get you to play rock, paper, scissors through pictures. Yes. One day. One day. We do like to keep it fun. Yes. Is that all gentlemen? I think so. And I think we want to thank you, Mike, because you've been a huge supporter. I mean, I know you and I are friends and you know, we've known each other for quite a while, but you know, you don't have to do the things that you do. And I appreciate all the support that you've given us. And that is noticed. And we really appreciate it. I actually started going back and listening to the early versions of penadict podcasts, probably when they were still on 70 decibels. And I have found that you were then where I am now with pens. Yes. I never had a pen case, really, until, you know, a year ago, or whatever, when we first sent one to Brad. So it's a new growing experience. And it's cool to go back and listen to those in the archive to kind of live those same experiences with you. Yes. That's a good point. I think for people that are jumping onto the show and we try and mention this. I had an interest in pens, but I wasn't very knowledgeable in them. And over the time, over the 78 episodes that we've done, my interest and knowledge has wrapped up. So if you're coming in now, I don't know what to do, go back to number one. Because really, I mean, obviously we do talk about some newsworthy items that are happening, Kickstarter projects or whatever. But all of those projects are now like available to buy and stuff. So you can do that. But you will learn with us and you will see how, like, for example, I mean, I personally feel like I take credit for introducing Brad to a love of fountain pens. I'm just going to say that I forced him into that. And then he took it and ran with it. And now I'm learning from him again, which I kind of don't understand how that happened, but it did. So yeah, you should go back and do that. But thank you guys. I mean, I wouldn't do any of this if I didn't believe in the product. And I think and I cannot wait to get my hands on this stuff. Congratulations. Seriously, just massive congratulations for what you've achieved. I can't wait to see what number this finishes up on. I'm very confident you're going to break that. I was going to say we. It's not we. It's you guys. We're going to break that 75,000 mark. So we're all along with you in spirit. That's right. This is everyone's project. So we appreciate all the support and we love all the feedback. So we feel like this is a project for everyone and everyone can be involved in it with us. Can't believe it actually happened. I can't believe it's happened. We're there. You've done it. I know. I know. All right. So we'll be back next week. And I'm sure that we'll have something else to say about next week. Jeffrey, it was great to talk to you on the show. Thank you for joining me today. As well. Thanks for having me. Thank Brad for having me over and letting me be a part of this amazing project and see what's coming up next. Awesome stuff. Thank you for listening. I'm Mike, by the way, on Twitter. I am YKE. We'll be back next week. Thanks, Brad. All right, man. Thanks. Bye-bye. Bye.
