>> Hello and welcome to the Panatic podcast on the 5x5 network. I am your host, Brad Dowdy. You'll notice I'm not the British speaking guy. He is not with us this week. I have a wonderful special guest and I figured since I'm always the one getting nicknames, I needed to come up with a nickname for her on this and I'm going to go with The Queen of Green, Miss Anna Reiner from the Well appointed desk. How are you, Anna? >> Just fine. Thank you very much. >> Good. You got it. So we'll have our friend, Kanuni Renish, and she keeps track of all of Mike's intro. So we'll see if she'll add in my intro as a special addition for you. >> I feel very special. >> And you are the Queen of Green, by the way. Everything green, olive green, lime green, anything green in a... >> Kind of ends up in my world. >> Well, good. I appreciate you filling in this week. We had a last minute scheduling snafu with Mike and myself had dueling, scheduling conflicts. So I'm glad you were able to jump on and save me this week. I really appreciate it. >> Anytime. Not a problem. >> All right. So we talked a little bit getting ready for this episode and we got a long list of topics. And I think it's going to be good because I know we've been... Mike and I have been doing a bunch of interviews recently with Ryan from Bullet Journal and Brian from FieldNotes and I think it's time to get back to the basics, back to the pen and pencil and paper nerdery that we're known for and that everyone likes to hear and wants to hear about some of these topics. So what do you think about that? >> I think that sounds like a great idea. >> All right, cool. Well, one of the first things I wanted to talk about is something that I swear to myself all the time and when I do post about it, I always get myself in trouble saying I'm going to do more with it. But that's just pencils, just basic pencils. And I've reviewed the black wings before I said, "Okay, I'm going to start using this all the time," and I don't. But it's a huge, huge topic just like pens are and you and I are kind of, I'd say we mostly do pens but I know you review pencils in more accessories than I do. >> But it's true. I do remember that you said you were going to do more with pencils just for the record I think noticed. >> I know. I know. >> And I'm going to get a sidetracked right off the gate. My challenge is the portability of them. I think I just need to take some to my office because that's where I use my pens the most and take some of these pencils and leave them there because carrying them back and forth in a pen case, that drives me crazy because I don't like, you know, I want to use the wood case pencils, you know, not the mechanical pencils and just carrying them around in a bag all the time. I don't have a bag dedicated to get graphite all over everything and I'm picky that way. The first thing I would say is there are some companies that make the little tip, the little metal caps that you can put on the tips to keep the points from getting damage, which is a very nice addition. >> Yeah, someone sent me a couple of those, my friend Tofar on, or Tofar actually as he says on Twitter, he sent me a couple of the plastic tip ones so I got to look into those metal ones. >> Yeah. And both of them. I mean, they work fine. The metal ones I think are more durable and will withstand getting sort of chucked around in a bag. Plastic ones are nice too though because you can see which pencil is the sharpest. >> Yeah. So one of our tasks for this new Pin Case company I'm coming up with with my partner Jeffrey, we're going to work on a pencil case design to hopefully solve the problems that I'm having. >> Ooh. >> That's still nice. >> I'll be curious to see that. >> Yeah. Yeah. We'll need some help getting that design off the ground so I'm sure I'll have some questions for you. But our friend Johnny Gamber at Pencil Revolution had a great article in the Atlantic was about a week ago. I guess you and I had both linked to it and, you know, pencils are a huge deal for so many people and just like pens, there's this huge, I mean, once you start going down that track, I mean, it's the same rabbit hole that you get stuck in with pens and ink and paper and everything else. And, you know, this article, we'll have it in the show notes. Elgin, find the show notes at 5x5.tv/pinattict/71, this is episode 71, we're recording, we'll have this link and you can check out the article in the Atlantic because it's great. And Johnny's knowledge on pencils is just phenomenal. >> It really is. >> And I know you've contributed there in the past and I know you're a huge pencil person. So what do you use for pencils? What are some of your favorites or how do you use pencils in your day-to-day work? >> Well, the nice thing with pencils is that they're not very expensive. Even a box of pellemino black wings, you can get a dozen for $20. So I don't feel so bad with pencils of leaving them at my desk or leaving them in the pen cup that sits on the corner of your desk. If someone walks off with a pencil, I'm not devastated. I would not put a vintage black wing, but I don't have one, but, you know, anything else. And, like I said, even the pellemino black wings or pencils like that, they're under a dollar. I mean, that's about what a G2 or something would cost that you don't mind leaving on your desk. So I keep a huge jar of pencils on my desk at work. And it also means I have something that I can grab right away and just, you know, if the one is not sharp enough for me, I just pull a different one out. But, yeah, no, I did a post a couple months ago about my three favorite pencil brands. And it was the pellemino black wing 602, the Mitsubishi Tombow 8900, and the Faber-Castell grip pencils, which are the, they were originally, you could only get them as metallic silver with little black dots. It's one of the triangular shaped pencils. Yeah, yeah. I've seen those. Those are cool looking. I, they're super awesome. The only time that I've ever had problems with them is do not leave them in your car if it's hot because those little rubber dots melt. But otherwise, I mean, it's just, the size fits really nicely in your hand. It's one of those pencils that doesn't actually have an eraser on the end. So the weight is pretty light, pretty evenly distributed. And actually, I think pencil talk, the blog Pencil Talk this week had an article that Faber-Castell is now doing them in new colors. They're calling them sparkle, and they're all in like metallic gold, copper, and a more of a graphite, metallic graphite color. Oh, that's awesome. So with silver dots on it instead of the black. See, I could get in trouble shopping like this because I want to try out so many of these things. I got to, I got to make that commitment though. Those, the, the Tombow, one of these Tombow's I guess was recommended to me that the one that was recommended to me was the Tombow Mono 100, which seems to be awfully super expensive. Like I'm just looking at jet pins and they're $28 for 12 and come in every lead grade imaginable. I haven't used those, but that was when I was doing the Blackwing post. I think the one of the basic Palominos, the, the orange, when I forget which model it is, I'll find that in the show notes. I think it's got a specific name. That one was recommended and then the Tombow Mono was highly recommended to me. And it's hard just like with, with pens, you know, you think, you know, finding a pilot high-tech sea with, you know, three or four tip sizes is difficult. Well, you know, I'm staring at what, you know, 20 different lead hardnesses on here. Do you have a, do you have a go-to lead? Well, an HB is about what people think of as a number two. So if you start off sort of in HB is kind of the middle range, the 2B, 3B, 6B, the B means soft, don't ask me, and anything like 2H, 4H, 8H, those are, H is for hard. So if you just know that H means hard and B means the other thing. Yeah, exactly. And you know, so if it's your sort of first 4A, if you aim right in there for the HB, which is sort of the middle ground pencil, and try that first, see how you like it. If it's not dark enough, then go into the B, like try a 2B pencil or something. If it's too dark and smudgy for you, move into the H, I have a feeling you would like something in like the 2H, 3H, that would be a little bit harder. And the lead would be, doesn't wear down as fast and it goes down much lighter, it's a harder pencil, especially if you have a heavy hand, or if you're doing just more writing, then I mean, you're not taking any of those scantronic tests where you need the HB. Right. Right. And I've looked at like the lead hardness maps where they show all the shades, and you know, I think I'd be somewhere around the middle, and like you say, probably a little bit more on the H side, where it's a little bit more firmer, the lead's gonna be a little bit lighter color, which I'd actually prefer the darkness of the B side of the scale. But I think I would be more happy with just over on the H side of the scale for the hardness and firmness of the lead. So that's something I need to check into and... And it can also depend on the manufacturer, you know, I mean, in the same way that a fine nib fountain pen from one manufacturer isn't necessarily as fine as another manufacturer, you know, they use the same terms, luckily across the world. But yeah, there's still some little differences, depending on how they blend their graphite. So some write a little scratchier, some write a little smoother, some a little bit softer. It just... And it's again, you know, maybe don't start with the $28 per dozen, try something a little bit less expensive. Actually, I don't think the Faber-Castelles are... The grip series are super expensive, and I do think that probably on Amazon or other places you could probably find like a pack of three. And sometimes they'll offer them like as a drawing pack where you'll get a couple different grades so you can try out a few and see which one you like. Oh, no, that's a good idea. I can get behind that. So I want to... I want to hear some recommendations from anyone who's listening, shoot me an email, or get in contact via the blog, and I'll have all that information at the end and it'll be in the show notes. But I like a dark, a dark firm lead, so something probably on the H side of the scale. And if there's any brands that skew darker as opposed to lighter and still retain that firmness, I'd love to know if you listeners have a favorite brand that I can check out in that two H, three H range, something like that. I think that would be something kind of where I want to start off with. I did try a random uni Mitsubishi at one point that was way down the B scale, and it was just... The darkness was great, but it was just way too soft for me because unlike you, I mean I'm mostly writing where you're writing, but then you're also sketching and doing some design work and things like that. So you kind of have that, you want that range where for me, I just want something good to write with. Yeah, absolutely. And even for what I do, most of my sketching is more just, I mean right now I've been working on iPhone apps, so I'm drawing a square, and then I'm drawing squares inside of squares. There's not a lot of shading or highlighting or anything like that. It's pretty much draw a square, draw another square, write a line, draw another square. This is going to be an icon later. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, so a little bit harder works well for me. I tend to go right at the, usually anywhere between a 2H and an HP, and I do run a little bit on the harder side too. Gotcha. Gotcha. All right, cool. Well, one other new topic I want to get to, that we have not discussed on the podcast, I don't think you and I have discussed it either, but I know we've probably been, we're on the same email list, I'm pretty sure. There's some new notebook projects that have launched one on Kickstarter, one on Indiegogo. Let's tackle the Masieur. That's what I'm gonna do. Oh. How did I do? Okay, pretty good. Yeah, I think that's what. My French isn't much better than yours, so I'm gonna go, okay. Masieur notebook. This is a cool notebook. It's actually been around for a while, and anyone who's read, you know, pen and paper and stationery blogs for any length of time, I'm sure it's heard of the Masieur notebook, because they launched, what are they, they're an Australian company, I think, and they launch. I thought they were English, but don't hold me to it. Yeah, and I'll check on that. But they launched several years ago, and you know, they had a lot of reviews out at the time and, you know, got some, got a lot of good feedback. I've never used one, but you did a review of one of their, one of their notebooks. I guess this was, God, this was 2011. Mm-hmm. Yep. Yeah, so what they've done, I think the reason they have gone to Indiegogo now is I think wherever they're from, their distributorship was limited, I believe is how this worked. So now they were able to get, they're ready to branch out, basically. I think they were, go ahead. Oh, they're, yeah, I think they're looking to expand, and I think part of the problem was that, yeah, they didn't have the capacity to support sort of getting into a lot of new markets. So I think they really want to get into the U.S. market and have enough product that they could send, that they could distribute to retailers in the U.S. and in some other countries. And so they're trying to get the money together to sort of branch out and become more available all over the world. Because right now, I think you can order online, and I think you can order through, you know, at a few shops like in the U.K. in Europe, but I don't, they just don't have that sort of brand presence. I think they're hoping that by generating some revenue up front, that they'll be able to move into, you know, more competitive with brands like Muskeen. Yeah, exactly. And you're right, they're based in London, so I was wrong about that on where I got Australia from. They've got the main distributorships, and now they're trying to reach out to more across the globe. And what they do is they do, it's a, it's a standard, I don't know, standard, what, eight and a half by five and a half notebook. I'm not looking at the dimensions, but they're, their thing is they make a leather cover on the outside. That's real leather. It's very nice. And they're able to do it at a very good price. You know, the prices are pretty good. How was your, I know it's been a couple years, but how was your experience back when you, when you first reviewed the product? I mean, I know it's probably, they probably made some changes since then since then, since it's been a couple of years. They, they have, yeah, they have added a lot of options now. I think when I reviewed it, it was like you could get a lined notebook or you could get a blank. And now they also have, they've added the dot grid, the grid and I think like a sketchbook grade paper, they've kind of improved some of the paper qualities. And so I, I don't feel like I can really say a whole lot. The quality of the overall production was really nice. The covers really look like tanned leather. So they, they come already with a little bit of character to them. Each one will look a little bit different. Everything was put together really nicely. The covers were a little bit softer because I think it's just the leather and then they glue the end papers to the book so that it's, it has a bit of that sort of like slightly softer cover. It's not like a hard cover that's then been wrapped in a thin layer of leather or leather at. It's actually a thick piece of leather, which is nice. Yeah. I like that. I like the style of that a lot. I don't necessarily need like a hardbound book for my notebook, you know, I wanted to have that pliability like this, this leather has. And so the test that I did on the, I had a lined and I had a blank, they, they sent me an A5 and an A6, which is basically like a, like a five by seven and a half, three and a half by five size, you know, like the pocket size, four by six and five and a half by eight and a half. And no sooner did I take the, the sort of brown, beautiful brown one out that my husband said, Oh, that's really nice. And so I never saw that one again. And he doesn't usually sort of take claim on anything. He usually looks at me like, really, you need another notebook. But that was the one that he ran off with. But yeah. So, I mean, it was, you know, it definitely had a look and a feel that, that appealed to people who even weren't big notebook collecting geeks like ourselves. Right. But yeah, I do think they, and I know that they're listing on their website now that they're carrying paper that they feel like is more suitable for like fountain pens and stuff. And I am really looking forward to having a chance of trying some more of their products. Yeah. I definitely want to check them out. I'm not a backer. I'll probably just wait till after the, the funding completes. I don't know. I might jump in and get one, maybe get a graph one there. They're only have a $5,000 goal. They got 45 days left and they're almost halfway there so far. And you know, the, the notebooks start at 20 for the pocket notebook and you 25 for, for the medium size, which is, it's totally reasonable for, for something like this and you get your choice of paper. And actually, I think you get your choice of leather color too, the way they, the way they set it up. So it looks really good. Um, I'm starting to see some reviews. I'm a little bit concerned. Um, I don't, it's kind of like a restaurant, a new restaurant that's open for the first time, you know, I'll go there the first time. I don't have high expectations, you know, because they're kind of new. And, you know, if they do something bad, I'm willing to give them a second chance. You know, I'm not going to make a judgment on that. But one of the first reviews I've seen about this product, what, it was not, it did not look good. Um, it's on a vertical paper.net and I'll have the link in the show notes, but the binding, I'm really concerned about the binding a little bit. So I'm anxious to see some other people get reviews. Um, I know there's good, probably going to be some more reviews samples coming out, but it was just kind of coming apart, if you will, um, around the binding section, the binding and the gluing, it did not look right. So I don't want, I'm not going to make a judgment call just on one review, but it did look so hot. I'm going to have to have to admit. That's too bad. Um, from the other side of it is that if the prices stay consistent with what they have on here at $20 for an A6 and 25 for an A5, that's right in line with moleskine. So if they're offering better paper and real leather covers and the, I think that that, you know, the binding's not perfect or the, you know, the bookmark isn't, the bookmark ribbon isn't perfect. I'm like competitively speaking, if it's better paper and better materials overall and I have to hit it with a little bit of glue, I might, I'd be willing to do that. I'm over buying a moleskine, which I already know has, has mediocre paper at past. Right. And one of the, one of the things I've learned and we're going to touch on this later, um, is once I got into fountain pens, I learned that if I receive a product and it's not perfect, it's okay. And I can usually work with it and make it better, you know, like a fountain pen. If I have a nib that wasn't to my liking, you know, I can do some things to it. And we're hopefully going to get to this, this bit a little bit later, we'll tease that. But, um, yeah, this, this review is a little bit concerning to me. Plus it had some, um, watermarking on the paper where you could see it on every page. Oh, that's, you know, I'm going to chalk this up to maybe it's a prototype or a sample or something because that would be not so hot if every page had a, um, paper brand watermark on it. Oh, yeah. That move, that moves around, you know, oh, yeah spots. So we'll see, like I said, it's the first review I've seen on the new product. So hopefully some more will start coming in and I'm anxious to see. So we'll have this link in the, uh, in the show notes for everyone to check out. But um, yeah, they got a couple months to go and, uh, I mean, I, I hope they do great because it's a good looking product and it seems fairly priced and they've put a lot into, uh, the design of it as far as, um, you know, the options that are available. So it looks, looks pretty cool. Now on the, on the competing front over on Kickstarter and I'm sure you've got these emails and, and got the heads up on this. There's a new notebook product called Baron Fig. I did hear about that. Yeah. And it, uh, it looks pretty cool. It's, uh, it's, um, kind of like, I guess it's a cloth bound, cloth bound hardcover. Yeah. So it looks like, um, book binders fabric on the exterior. Mm hmm. Yeah. Like me personally, I prefer that style as opposed to leather, but, um, it's still, it's still, no matter what's on the outside, it really matters what's on the inside to me. Right. I mean, if it, if it doesn't work for the pins I'm using, um, you know, it doesn't matter if, if the paper's bad, how, how cool the cover is. Yeah. So one, the, my one feeling about the fabric cover, which is it's really, it's very, you know, um, aesthetically appealing, but how, how well does it wear? Because to your point about the, um, the Montsera notebook, uh, falling up, you know, like not being glued properly, if this cover starts to get damaged or thread worn or before you're halfway through the book, that was my thing is I just like, it's this pale gray. It's going to get grubby with fingerprints and coffee stains, and I was like, and not in a good way. Yeah. And once it, once a cloth bound starts to go, there's no stopping it. Yeah. Yeah. So that was the only thing that I sort of was like, it just, and I, I've taken some book binding and this is sort of like the first thing that they teach you is to cloth bind a book and it's like, it's pretty, but maybe not the most functional. Not the most functional and, you know, and the fact that it is cloth bound and they're right now, they're really only offering it with one color, this sort of light gray was a little bit disappointing as well. Yeah. So they, and they're just offering that one cover and they're offering a blank dot grid or ruled notebooks. Um, and I don't know if they're, they're already up to $70,000 on a $15,000 goal on Kickstarter and they got 20 days to go. So the marketing aspect or if it's the Kickstarter thing, but, um, it looks really good. I'm not. It does. I mean, it's, it's pretty. Yeah. I'm not a backer of this either. I, I've got so many notebooks. I, you know, I'll bet, I'll back pins left and right, but I've got stacks and notebooks still in, in, in under wraps right now, I figure I can wait till afterwards and pick up one, whatever I need one right now. I'm just so buried in note and paper. I haven't seen actual photographs of what their dot grid in their aligned paper looks like. And for me, that's also a, a huge sort of maker break point. If the, like on a dot grid or on a lined paper, if the lines are too thick or too dark, that it starts to, I mean, it starts to limit the, the, the kinds of inks that you can use, you know, if it's like hard black lines that are a point wide or bigger, like you, you have to use a 1.1 millimeter, right, you know, with a jet black ink in order for it not to be sort of obscured by the lines or the dots. Yeah, I think that's a great point. I think in their images, they use blank for everything. I watched the video once and now I don't recall if they showed dot or lined in them. I'm kind of thinking they didn't. I don't think they did either. And all the pictures use blank. So yeah, that's something that I do like to see, especially, you know, even though they're not offering it, just the grid, the graph paper that I like so much, it's, it's the exact same thing if the lines too dark or just too everbearing, it becomes, becomes useless. Who did that? What's the name of the brand that in Barnes and Noble, the eco-friendly brand ecosystems? Yeah. Yeah. I can't use their grids or so dark. It's unusual. Yeah. Yeah. They're lined papers the same way. And because I tend to favor blank books anyway, partially because it just eliminates that whole problem altogether. If I get a blank, I'm guaranteed to use it because nobody's put horrible lines on it. Right. But yeah, it was the same thing. The first ecosystem book that I bought was a blank one and I'm like, "Oh, I like, I enjoy the bright white paper. It's much better quality than a moleskine and widely available." And then I said, "Well, I like this one so much I'll pick up. I think I picked up one of the grid once." And it was so bad. I'm like, "Can I take this back?" I know. It was really bad. I didn't use them. I think I gave them to my kids to, you know, to color in. Yeah. They colored in the squares. Yup. Exactly. Exactly. That Kickstarter, Indiegogo, everything's hopping right now for stationary products. I have one more Kickstarter and I'm not sure if you saw it or not, but it was the Rainbow Pencils. Oh, yeah. That's pretty cool. Yeah. And I recognize the guy who is doing this Kickstarter. He's done some other projects. He did some of the thumbtacks that was like, it looked like a little, it looked like a little Pinocchio, wooden Pinocchio that you would then stick into your pin board. Okay. Cool. So that was stuff that he's done. So he's got some, I mean, and from the standpoint of like, he's got some clout. He's done some other stuff. So I'm kind of, it's a pencil that when you sharpen it, it makes a little rainbow. So it's probably not the world's best pencil, but it's really fun and it's one of the projects that I think I might end up backing. Yeah. I haven't backed this yet, but even though I don't use pencils a lot, it's almost too cool to pass up. This is something neat and it's kind of off the reservation a little bit with you, if you will, other than a notebook or some other pens and things, it's just something a little bit different, a little bit unique. If nothing else, my daughter would love these and heck, I would use them. I'd just sit here and sharpen them. I'd probably go through a whole pencil just to sharpen a rainbow. Sharpen a rainbow. Yeah. No, they're just, I mean, I think it's very clever. It's very, they're very elegant. And I think, yeah, totally for your average pencil pen geek, this would be the perfect gift. You know, something that you wouldn't find anywhere else. I'm so glad you brought this one up because I forgot about that. Awesome. Yeah. All right. Well, let me, I think we've got our Kickstarter covered. Let me play the role of Mike Hurley and we've got, we've got two sponsors today, Anna. Excellent. And our first sponsor is our friends at Squarespace. This episode is brought to you by Squarespace, the all in one platform that makes it easy to create your own website during the month of September. Only, they're giving you 20% off and a free trial, which is awesome that they've been to only doing 10%. So 20% is twice as good at least. Go to squarespace.com, use the offer code, tally ho nine. Squarespace is constantly updating their platform with new features, new designs and more support. They have beautiful designs for you to start with and tons of style options for you to adjust so you can really create your own space online. Squarespace takes care of hosting SEO and even make sure your site automatically looks great on any device. It's incredibly easy to use, but if you want some help, Squarespace has an amazing support team that works 24 hours, seven days a week. And I have the proof of that because I do all my work at three o'clock in the morning. While you're there, make sure you go check out their new homepage too. It's got awesome videos that are so beautiful that show how Squarespace fits everyone differently. Make sure you click the little arrows on the sides to check out all the cool videos. Squarespace is always updating their site with fun new branding that you can't help but be inspired by. As we said earlier, you can try Squarespace for free, no credit card required. And if you decide to purchase, it starts at just $8 a month and includes a domain name if you sign up for a year. And make sure to get 20% off this month and support the show by using the offer code, tally zero nine, so go check out Squarespace, everything you need to create an exceptional website. So thank you Squarespace, I'm a very happy customer. It's just not as much fun when you say tally ho. I know, gosh, I know that everyone's going to be disappointed there. They might actually listen to the Squarespace ad because they're like, hey, that British guy is not reading it this time, maybe he's going to say something different. But it's awesome, Squarespace does a great job. I lean on them hard when I'm going through blogs and setting up my other website and things like that. So they're very, very responsive to any issues and questions I've run across. So thank you, Squarespace, for continuing to sponsor our show and our network. Are they doing your new blog for NOC? They are. And that's a whole, that's a whole other thing. They have the commerce platform. So we've started on there. And right now we just have the blog turned on basically and just like an about page. But behind the scenes, we're working on the whole commerce piece, which is fully a Squarespace product. It's completely integrated. So we're building, building the shop behind the scenes and it'll integrate some, you know, with payment processor and everything and handles the inventory. So we're, once I get that up and rolling, we're going to talk about how, how we'd set that up. But it's really simple. It's just like building the blog and all the commerce stuff's built in there for you. So it's great. Very happy with it. Awesome. Yep. So do you, do you have any, I'm going to interview you for a second. Okay. Cool. So are you planning on doing a Kickstarter for NOC? Yes. We're definitely doing a Kickstarter. We're so close to launching. It's driving both Jeff and I crazy because we've built all these prototypes. We've got, you know, the product names and, you know, we started building the Kickstarter page for all the rewards. That's all, all that's filled in. So now we've actually haven't been doing as much this last week because we're just waiting for, we got in tags, you know, little branding tags for our final samples. We got the fabric in for our final samples and we got the thread in for our final samples. All of that just came in in the past day. So Jeff's going to work on building the final samples. We got to make those. We got to take the photography for those samples. Our video is done. It's edited. It's in the can. So once we get all that done, which is really not that much, we'll be able to send it to Kickstarter for approval. And if we don't launch by the end of next week, it'll be the following week. I'm thinking. So before October. Before October. Very exciting. Which has been our goal all, our goal all along has been September and it looks like we're going to meet it. So we just got to tie up a few loose ends and get these final, you know, kind of production level samples done so we can take the photography and then we'll release it and let everyone know. And I think we'll be good to go. Well, I know, I know I'm excited to see the Kickstarter and and all the final samples. So I'm sure everyone else is too. Well, good. Good. And we're going to hopefully have enough product samples to get some out for review as well. So I will definitely begin touch. I hope I make a review list. I know. I know. Oh my goodness. All right. So one of the things that you brought up and I thought was a really interesting question was about discontinued items and how to handle it when one of your favorite products gets canned, basically, and the company is not no longer making it and you're kind of stuck either using, you know, a paper system or a calendar system or a pen or a pencil that's been one of your favorites. And now all of a sudden you can't get it and how do you how do you handle it? So what's the what's the problem you've had? You've had a problem recently. I actually had two, two problems. The first one was it's getting, you know, towards fourth quarter of 2013. So I've started I've already started thinking about planners for 2014 and I know there's a lot of people who've been asking about sort of academic planners and everything. This whole year I've been using the paper blanks planner. It's like about an a five size, so about five by seven, seven by nine, something like that. And it's they call it the Verso format. So on one side of the page, and it's very similar, I think to how most keen lays out some of theirs, we're on one side of the page is slots for every day of the week. And then on the opposite side of the page, it's just lined paper. So you can use it for just general notes. So it's perfect for a work environment where you may be taking your planner in with you to a meeting. You've just got space right there to write notes or, you know, list of phone calls you need to make or anything like that. Well, they they at least they're 2014 line. And I didn't see the Verso format because I was just going to order another one. I liked it so much. I was just going to order another one. And I couldn't find it. And so I finally emailed the company and they said, we are not selling that particular model in the US this year. Oh, no. And I'm like, am I going to have to like go to Canada? So now I'm going to have to either pick a different format or I'll have to branch out and try a different company and pop in has been very nice to me. And their planners seem fairly comparable in terms of sort of the layout and what they include and the paper stock is pretty good. The I like a paper in the paper blanks. It's not I wouldn't say that it is exactly fountain pen perfect, but it's a lot better than a lot of other stocks that I've used. So I might go with a pop in. I don't know. But I'm yeah, basically I've been crying and kicking my feet. So that's how I'm solving. Excuse me. You've been, you've been pouting. I have been pouting and then the other thing that came up and this is totally left field. But there's a company called Borden and Riley that make marker paper, which we use at work for pointed pen lettering. So it's bleed proof. It's, you know, it's all this. It's perfect if you're using like a flexible nib pen and, you know, big gobbing bottles of black ink and they discontinued their layout, their rough marker paper. Wow. And I mean, like even the people like, I went, we have our own supply library, I went up and I'm like, where's the paper? And they're like, it's been discontinued. And I'm like, what are you doing about it? So they actually, I guess Borden and Riley had another paper that they recommended and they sent a sample sheets to Hallmark to try out. And they, they called me. They're like, you want to come up and try it out and let us know what you think of it. And it's okay. It's not the same. So that's the one where it's like, I, you know, I, at this point, I, we're just going to start looking for other brands who make, but not many people, like marker paper used to be used when people used to do like sort of mockups for advertising with colored markers. Like, which, this goes way back. Right. And so it's, it doesn't have as much use. It's really like weird people like us who do lettering on paper, you know? Yeah. It's like bigger and portable and more sturdy to, you know, take it around from place to place. Well, it's just like a look at it. Well, it's just a pad of paper. And we basically, we use this paper. It's bright white and then we'll scan it in for, um, to then end up on greeting cards, basically. And I mean, we've got a staff of people who do this and we're all crying about this stupid paper. So, but yeah, so it's, you know, I mean, I think there are things that we, you know, as paper geeks, pen geeks, you know, you use it and it may not be the most popular one. And I know it's, have you had stuff like this happen? Where I was trying to think back when you, when you mentioned that, I was like, Oh, that's such a good topic. Let me think of what I've like really missed out on and I was like, I can't think of anything except for one that I still get emails on. Um, Pinto makes a graph gear line of pencils that's extremely popular. Um, it's kind of like a designer engineering type of pencil. And at one point, they made a comparable graph gear ballpoint, um, with a point five millimeter tip for the ballpoint and the graph gear pencil line is so popular and people swear by it. And then they just up and stopped making the ballpoint and I got more emails on this and I ended up, I had one left. I think I, I don't ever know that I had more than one anyway. And this has been years now, this is like three years ago, maybe four years ago, and I had a guy email me and he was like, you know, I'm desperate to find this pen. You know, my, you know, my father is an engineer. He uses the pencils and I can't find the pen anymore. And, you know, can you tell me where I can get it? So I sent him my pen and I've missed it ever since. It was an awesome, awesome pen. It's just a really well made, um, ballpoint pen that no one has been able to make something comparable to, I mean, and not even close. I've probably got an old review on the blog I can, I can put up. But if you look at the graph gear pencil, which is still made, it's, it looks identical to that and it's with just a, a super fine ballpointing, ballpointing cartridge. And I just love how those pencils look and I really wish the ballpoint was still made. The only other one is it goes way, way, way back and this is probably the single most emailed pen I get about where can I find this pen that they still make it anymore is called the, um, the pilot explorer is this old, I guess it was popular in late 80s, mid 90s. I don't even know if they made it in the 2000s, but it was way ahead of its time in barrel design and fineness of tip. And I've got, you know, people always tell me we've, they've been showing up a lot here recently, like in Finland or Denmark or somewhere, I get these emails, hey, look what I found in the store. I was like, oh, you got to be kidding me. I didn't know they still made them. And then I like try to track down the distributor and I was like, yeah, we don't have any more of those. That was it. It's like, man, y'all are killing me. But those are the two pens that I wish were still being made that I would use, um, religiously, um, the graph gear ballpoint and the pilot explorer, both the, just kind of some classic design pens that there's really nothing close to be those being made right now. Yeah. Yeah. Well, back on your, on your planner topic, um, I'm not a planner person at all. I can't tell you the last time I've used it, it just doesn't, it just doesn't really work for me. I think I would like the style that you're talking about the Verso style where it's got the, the calendar on one side and then just essentially, you know, line page on the other side, but I've been sucked in, I guess, to, to the planner world and I've, I've ordered a planner for 2014 and I sent you, I sent you the link in the Skype. Okay. I don't know if you got it there, but it's the Hobonichi Tekko. I think I've heard about these. Yeah. So it's made, I found out when I did the Tomoe River paper review that this planner uses that paper. Oh, yes. I have seen those. Yeah. So I ordered one up, um, they, they don't ship to like October or something. So I'll be sure to do a review when they come, but you know, it's, it's good for me one because it's gridded. It's a graph paper design, um, and it's a page a day, but the page is essentially blank. Um, it's just one big grid with like a 12 in the middle kind of denoting the, the midday, I guess, if you will. Oh, cool. That's pretty much it. Um, you know, it's got some other small little features, you know, of course, day, date and you know, it's got a little quote on it, but generally the whole middle of the page is blank just for that day. So it lends itself a lot more to, like you said, if you're taking your planner into a meeting, you can write down notes as a part as opposed to, you know, pick up, you know, milk and bread and things. It's a little more functional in that aspect, which is something that I like. I don't like to be tied down to a system very well, like we did the bullet journal last week. And that's actually working pretty well for me because it's pretty simple and straightforward. Any larger, more defined system is going to be tough for me. So I'll be talking about that more here in a couple of months, once it comes in. But yeah, I'm getting into getting into the world of planners. Well, and I actually use mine as a planner and also as a reminder. So a lot of times at the end of the week, I'll go back and put in any important things that might have happened that might not have been captured. So things like if we went to a movie or if we went out for dinner with friends, that's sort of the last minute thing, I'll go back and add those in so that a year from now, I could, I could theoretically pull that back out and it would double as a diary to a certain extent of like, what did we do? Where did we go? You know, friends were in town that weekend, stuff that might not necessarily end up in your planner. And so I keep track of things like that as well. So I kind of out at the end of the week, you know, before I start Monday of the following week, I'll go in and like add in things that I might have done over the weekend that wouldn't normally capture. Cool. That's great. I think that's a good idea. Yeah. And I actually need to do more stuff like that. I've started, you know, as my kids are getting older, I've started to, you know, realize that, hey, I want to remember this, you know, later. So that's good. That's good. Well, I want to talk, we alluded to a topic that I want to cover about when products aren't working that I want you to get into. But first, I want to do our second sponsor and that is Shutterstock.com. 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Let's see what... Find anything good. Oh my goodness. I got for rainbow pencil, stock photos, illustrations, and vector art. I got 22,459 results. Let me tell you, every single one of them on this page that came is some type of rainbow pencil like drawings and just really, really cool colors everywhere. Gosh, they have everything. If you're putting together a blog or a service and need some stock images, this is the place to go. It looks like they've got everything. Thank you Shutterstock.com for sponsoring us. That's awesome. Not everything in the world of pens and papers always comes out smelling roses. We have problems with pens. I've talked about my Lamy 2000 that I dealt with for about a year until I got it fixed. Sometimes you get faulty items out of the package. You ran into something here recently, so why don't you tell that story real quick? I had for several years. I think I saw on your blog at some point, you had gotten a Koiko Lilliput. I said, "I will own that pen one day." Awesome pen. I finally was at a spot where I could... It's not a super expensive pen, it's about $55 or something, but a little bit further out of my... That's right at the top of what I've normally spent on fountain pens. I finally scraped the change together, bought it, was so excited. It got here, I took it out of the package and I've had Koiko's before and they've always just written like a dream as soon as I take them out of the package. I think I was even sitting in my car. Through the cartridge in there, gave it a couple of shakes, put it on paper, nothing happened. I'm like, "Oh, maybe it's a credit card church. Maybe it's because I'm trying to write in 90 degree heat in my car," whatever. So I get home, I get out nice paper, I'm trying to prime it, trying to get it going, nothing. It's screechy, scratchy, I'm getting tiny little bits of ink, and I'm like, "This is not right, this is not right." So I asked a couple other people to try it because again, I thought, "Well, maybe it's the left-handed thing." And all the time thinking, "Kooiko's work great for lefties. You can write upside down. They work. They work at just about any angle. They're very forgiving in that way." And so even going through this whole thing, I'm thinking, "This is stupid. There's obviously something wrong with this pen." And then I thought, "Well, maybe I'm just, I don't know." So pass it around for a while, had other people use it, and they're like, "It's okay. It's kind of scratchy." And I'm like, "Okay, it's not me. There's something wrong with this pen." Yeah. "Kooiko's are not scratchy pens." They are not scratchy pens, but had I been a brand new fountain pen user, and that was the first pen I purchased, I would have been, like, fountain pen stink. I don't want these. They're terrible. So, I mean, I'm glad that it wasn't my first experience. And certainly even at $55, it's a budget fountain pen. So my instinct is that quality control at that level is not as, you know, is not as efficient. They're not as, they don't maybe look at every single pen kind of thing. Yeah, not as thorough. Not as thorough. But I bought it from JetPens, and I emailed them, and I said, "What's my next step? What do I do? Should I contact Kooiko? Do you guys handle this?" And JetPens, being the awesome company that they are, said, "Nope, don't worry about it. We will take care of everything. We'll make sure you get one that works." So they sent me another one, and I took it out of the package, and I'm like, "Please work. Please work." And I did exactly the same thing. I popped in that, because I was like, "I'm not going to try a crazy ink. I'm not going to use anything. I'm just going to use the cartridge that comes with it." So I stuck that little blue cartridge in there, gave it a couple of shakes, put it on paper, and I'm like, "It works like a charm." I was right. It was not the pen. It was not the company. It was just one pen that didn't work. Yeah. I worry about that. The points you made about you and I and all the other bloggers in our realm, we talk to a lot of people that are just getting started, and they're always looking for information, which is why they've reached out to us and helped me get started, helped me find what do I want? The burdens on us to tell them sometimes what to buy. It's hard to know that exact thing to tell them, and then when you get that second phase of like, "Well, what if they get something that's really not working well for them, and it's just like a physically wrong with the pen that you and I would notice, but they don't know, and they've given you grief about it, I mean, fortunate that it hasn't happened, but that's something I worry about, because you don't want to recommend something junky to someone, but I'm totally glad that the Kawiko thing worked out for you. Did they send you a whole new pen or just a nib unit? No, they sent me a whole new pen. Great. I think what JetPens did was actually just contacted Kawiko directly and said, "You sent us a faulty pen, send us a new one," and so they got a new one in, and they sell out at JetPens because I got the extra fine nib and the silver, and I wanted the silver one so bad because it matches my pocket knife. I saw that picture. They're the same size. It was like it has to be the brushed silver one, but yeah, so there were several, I mean, and luckily it wasn't like I was waiting for my first fountain pen or anything, because it was several weeks to sort of, I ordered the first one, it didn't work, I messed around with it for a week before I contacted JetPens and said, "Yes, there's definitely something wrong with this." I had filled it with a couple different inks, making sure it wasn't that I was using a bad ink or anything, and so then, of course, when I contacted JetPens, they're like, "Well, we're sold out, so we would have just sent you one what we had in stock," and so then there was another wait, so it was a good three or four weeks, and I'm so glad I didn't say anything on the blog. I'm going to write a review next week on this pen because it didn't, I would have been so felt like I'd let people down because it was several weeks before I could finally write the review and not write the review of this pen sucks, it's terrible, it didn't write because I knew that that wasn't what it was, I knew, and if I had a second one and I had the same problem, then I would have felt comfortable writing a review that says this is not a good pen, it didn't work, but I knew that that wasn't what was going on here. Yeah, and having used, you know, kawikos like you do, and like I do, the nibs are on those pens are fantastic, and you know, hopefully, you know, maybe it just was a faulty pen like you said, and all the rest are good, and fortunately, not going wood, I haven't had that much of a problem. I definitely had a problem with the kawikos, the one, the biggest one I've had a problem with was the Lamy 2000, and I should have like you, I should have done something earlier except I was too, I don't know if naive is the word, but I was just really getting started, like I don't know what to do or how to handle this, but I know something's a little bit off here, and fortunately, you know, I got, I'd asked a few questions on forums and tried to figure out some things to do, and fortunately, you know, I waited around long enough, I just took it to someone, a nib mister to take a look at the nib, and it's fixed, and it's working perfectly now, it was a nib alignment issue, and you do your research online, and you find that the Lamy 2000 line doesn't have the greatest quality control, and things like that, so, you know, it's, it's, I guess it just comes with the territory sometimes, unfortunately, we're in this situation now where if we, we've got enough experience to where we know something's wrong, we're able to nail it down quickly, but I do worry sometimes for those just getting started that they, that they will freak out a little bit, and it might be unwarranted, and we just might need to get a different pin in their hands, and everything will be fine, so. But I do think, my, my instinct, if I were to, at this point, give advice to somebody buying their first pen, what are your first fountain pen, to definitely buy it from a reputable vendor, buy it from somebody that, that has gotten good feedback places like Goulay and JetPens, and CultPens, and if you get it and it doesn't write, call them, email them and say, is there something I'm not doing? I'm not sure. I mean, like, don't risk looking like an idiot on the offhand chance that you end up, you know, waiting too long, and you've exceeded their, you know, whatever their return policy is, because at a certain point, if it's not writing for you, send it back, have them send you another one, you know, or at least get your money back and say, okay, maybe I need to wait until I can go to a pen show and try pens, or, you know, a pen shop where I can actually walk in the door and use it first before I buy it, so, but that, yeah, that's the biggest thing. I wouldn't buy it on Amazon or eBay or something if you're, if this is your first foray, yep, I think that's great advice. I think that's perfect. Alright, so we got a, we have a few more topics that I reached out on Twitter when I booked you on the podcast and said, hey, anything, you know, you guys want to know from me or from Anna, she's going to be on the podcast and we'll do these kind of rapid fire stock because we got some good, good, good Twitter questions and I thought this first one was perfect. It's from at Janice Marie and she said, she said, honest, the perfect person to talk about desk accessories with when you're in, when you're in cubicle hell, what makes your life better? And I know you, you, you're, you're a desk, gear, aficionado, looking at all, you like all the, the retro stuff, you know, you like looking at other desks and things like that. So how can we make cubicle hell better, Anna? Well, my very first advice is if there's an aesthetic that you like, that your beige cubicle or your gray desk doesn't have going on, bring it in from home, you know, go hit the places that, you know, in my case, I do, I hit a lot of antique malls and vintage places and the plastic swing line stapler went away and the vintage, you know, a shiny silver stapler came in, you know, and, you know, put pictures or a calendar that appealed to you, hang it on your wall or your cube. I mean, those are, those are the first things is like, if they, if you give you ugly office supplies, bring stuff from home, bring the stuff that you like, don't, you know, we bring our own pens because we don't like the ones that they have in the supply closet, but places that have good options are places like, you know, I mean, like it, pop in has color coordinated. If you want all green, you could go to pop in, you know, and I did find like one of the places that I didn't expect to find really good selection of kind of fun, different office supplies was the, it's actually a shop that sells clothes, but it's called Mod Cloth and they have a whole section on office supplies. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. I'll check that out. Yeah, I can't, I don't have my desk like fully decorated out, but I'm trying to think, I don't think there's one thing on the desk that isn't mine except for like the phone. You know, I think I've brought in everything, every, you know, every piece of hardware that I use, every piece of decoration that I use, you know, pictures, you know, drawings for my kids and pens and I mean, even down to like my mouse pad and stuff is like something that I've brought in, you know, that it makes me feel more comfortable at work and things like that. And so I think that's, that's the key is, you know, hopefully you're a company, hopefully your company lets you for one, bring in your stuff and two, you know, make it your own and don't worry about other people making fun of you because, because they don't have a clue. There are things with the clutter filled paper high desk and the, the big pens and you know, there is a guy at, at Hallmark who actually brought in wood flooring and put it under his desk so that it didn't, it wasn't on the sort of psychedelic gray spiral carpeting that we have. And I mean, I walk by his cubicle and I'm like, really, you brought in wood floor? Okay, whatever floats your boat. But I mean, it is, you know, I mean, Hallmark is, I mean, we're notorious. Like we hang stuff from the ceilings at my, I'm actually like out posted right now, but over my regular desk is a giant Chinese paper parasol, that's cool, which I hang over the fluorescent lights because really who wants to look at popcorn ceiling and fluorescent tubes. Gosh, I know. But I mean, like every, like everybody at Hallmark, there's, you know, people make those big tissue puffs and hang them up and there's all cut. There's, I mean, you know, people bringing those cutouts of, of, you know, from the movie theater of their favorite, you know, character or actor. I mean, there's, there must be a half a dozen Chewbacca's in various places and the characters from Twilight and, you know, but we're all, we all decorate our space and, and make it our own. And I think most offices, you might not be able to hang things from the ceiling or, you know, put a giant Chewbacca, but, you know, I mean, you can bring a calendar and hang it on, that has, you know, beautiful pictures of travel destinations or, you know, that's kind of things that just make the space feel a little bit better. But I will have a post up on my site sometime by this weekend of some visuals of some cool desk accessories for the cubicle bound. Oh, that's awesome. Awesome. I look forward to that. All right. Let's handle one more and then I think we got a, we got to wrap this. But this was a good question from Bon Johnson. He said, how much time each week do the two of you spin with your blogs? How big of a time commitment is required? Do you want to take that one first? I want to hear what you have to say. It takes a lot of time. I don't know that I've timed it per week. I tend to do everything in big batches and then have things ready to post at later dates. But per week, if I average it out, it's got to be seven, eight hours a week easily. Okay, I'm, I'm right in the same, in the, about the same space. I think I actually spend a little bit more time, but I do post a little bit more frequently than you do. Right. Yeah. But I estimated that I spend at least, I mean, if I just count like prepping posts and looking for information or doing written reviews and photographing and processing the photos and all of that kind of stuff, each post is a minimum usually of an hour give or take depending. I mean, I do some that are a little bit faster, but I do batch process a lot of stuff like that where if, if it's a, if it's not time-related or it's not a brand new product that I want to make sure it gets up as soon as possible for people, if it's something I found that's a vintage thing, I sort of will queue those up for later in the week. Yeah. Yeah. I'm somewhere between eight to 12 hours a week. Yeah. That's, that's probably right. Like I, like the review I did today for the morning glory, which I wanted to get out fast because I didn't have a lot of time with it before it launched at JetPens, I probably did that one from start to finish, including photography and editing and writing and probably like an hour, but that's like a dedicated hour and it might even take a little bit longer. It just doesn't go that fast and that was a short review. When I did the Lamy 2000 a few weeks ago, just the written part of that one, I think probably took me at least two hours and that doesn't include any photography, any hand-written samples, any editing, any photography editing. So I mean, I could have spent, you know, three or more hours just on one review. So if you do that multiple times a week, it's, yeah, I'm looking at probably, I'd say eight hours and that's probably conservative. It's probably eight to 10. It takes a lot of time to keep a consistent blog up. And that's not counting the time that you spend double checking to see if you've got Twitter questions or any of that and checking your email, reading through, like I get emails from a lot of, I mean, like if I added it all together, like it's a part-time job. Yeah, it is, no doubt. And you know, that includes, you know, podcast prep for me and recording and all that stuff too. Yeah, it's not an hour or two a week, it's a good chunk and that's after, you know, both of us, you know, work full-time and, you know, have other responsibilities too. But we do it because we love it and it's fun. It's a great community to be a part of and it's thriving and it's such a positive place to be that I'm glad to do it and wouldn't want to do it any other way. I love doing it. I do too. I do have days though when it does. I got a lot of commitments. Yeah, I know. I'm getting, I'm getting to the point now, I'm not going to lie to you where I've almost forgotten to make a post. I'll be like, oh, I didn't do a post where I used to never be like that at all. I'd have them loaded out and now I've been so busy like I'll get, you know, the night before, you know, the next morning that I wanted to post like a few hours before, I'm like, oh my gosh, I didn't do a post for tomorrow. Do I have anything to give away? Because that won't take me very long. And I have a tendency to accumulate till the weekend and then I'll do like, I'll spend like an all day and Saturday doing nothing but just testing like a lot of stuff. Like I have a couple of products that I haven't had time to test to figure out like, and it means some cases you test something and you're like, this isn't, it's not even worth reviewing. Like, I don't even want to talk about this. I know I've gone through like the whole thing and gone, uh, forget it. Yeah, forget it. I'm not going to tell anybody. I'm not going to, I'm not going to say terrible things about this product, but I've, I took an hour and a half testing and making sure it wasn't just me, it really is a crappy product. You know, and alternately, then there's other things that are good products that I want to give them their just do and give them time and not just whip something out because I'm trying to hit a deadline. So some stuff sits for a while. Exactly. Exactly. But I do the same thing. I, on the weekends, I'll spend, you know, three or four hour chunks just doing a bunch of stuff and, and one shot. Yeah. Well, good. Well, I think let's, I think let's wrap it up for today. We got, we could go on and on and on. That's why like having you on here so much and, uh, like I say, I always say we need to do it more frequently and we really do. So I really, really appreciate you coming on today and joining me on the show. So why don't you tell, um, I know you're, the blog for everyone is at well appointed desk.com. So tell everyone where, where you're out on Twitter or how they can, how you like to be reached. Um, you can reach me on Twitter at well, a P P T desk. Um, and I'm also on app.net at a N A. Awesome. And you can find me at panatic.com. I'm on Twitter at dowdyism, D O W D Y I S M. I'm on app.net at dowdy D O W D Y. And if you need to contact me, there's a contact link at the top of my website and, uh, it was fun. And I really appreciate it and you take care. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me on the show. You got it. I'll talk to you soon. Okay. Bye bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]
