Hello and welcome to the Pan Adict on 5x5, a weekly show where we discuss pens, paper and the analog tools that you love so dearly. This is episode 58. My name is Mike Hurley and I am today, joined by a man who is capable of working in zero gravity. Upside down, underwater and at temperatures from -30 to 250 degrees Fahrenheit. That's Mr. Brett Dowdy. It sounds like you're reading one of my blog posts for something I'm going to talk about here in a minute. I may be, actually. I may be, so shall we leave it there? Master of Illusion. I know. Yeah, yeah, excellent. Good job. How are you, sir? I'm good, man. How are you? I'm great. I'm great. One of the things that makes me great is the listeners of this podcast. I'm sure you've noticed it. I've noticed it, too, that ever since we moved to 5x5, we're starting to get a few more interactions with our listeners. Got some new, some people new to the show, been getting a bunch of tweets on people catching up on the podcast. A lot of people, I know I've had several, I don't know about you saying, they started at episode one and have been listening through the whole thing. Have you had seen some of those? I have and I think we've mentioned this before, but we kind of suggest that you do that. It's not a self-serving thing. There's definitely a thread that runs through episode one up until now, episode 58, that you can kind of see the progression. A lot of people that have started listening from episode one end, or to listen into them in a more condensed fashion one after the other can kind of see that and have commented on that. Maybe if you're new or a little wet behind the ears when it comes to pens, maybe you don't know too much, because when we started out the show, I didn't really know anything. I feel like I've mentioned this before, but yeah, I didn't really know too much. As time has gone on, I started to learn a bit more. I think that we're a bit term and jargon-heavy at times just because we're sort of up to our eyes in this stuff. I think it's good to go back from the start and catch up. Yeah. Then when you come to an episode like today where we're going to talk about some of the things we're going to talk about today really tie into many, many episodes that we've talked about before and the topics we'll go through have definitely got some genesis in some of the previous episodes. We definitely think it's a good thing. We have one new listener that Mike and I definitely want to mention and thank for all of his interaction and his really fun tweets and posts, and that's @camule on Twitter. What's @camscamble? I'm just checking. I believe that you're @camscamble. Camscamble, that was right. Cams, we really appreciate all your tweets. We actually want to talk about you today because you're the epitome of what some of our new listeners are doing. What Cam has done is he started listening from the beginning. I think he's even mentioned he's on his second run-through. He started at 50 and then went back. Okay. What he's been doing is as he listens to some of the episodes, he does a written review about our episode. It takes a picture of it and tweets it to me and Mike's. It's hilarious. I love our listeners. It's awesome. He's done this several times now. Let me read the one from today. He just wrote this on the little note pad. It says episode 50 was the first one I've listened to since gone back to the beginning and I'm now at 50 again and now it makes so much more sense. What's changed? Context. First time around, I had no fountain pens and no knowledge. Now I have two and a little. I recommend going back to the start. That's directly from a listener. Exactly what we're talking about. Yeah, yeah, so there is some context that's wrapped around there. What Cams has even done, Cams helps run a post office. Is he in Dublin? It's in Ireland somewhere. Hang on. Sorry. We weren't totally prepped for you Cams. Yeah, we should have been. This is terrible. I mean, I had thought that he was. I'm bringing up Google Maps because I feel like this is one of those things that you have to get right. It's like, yeah, he's in Scotland. He's on an island called the Isle of Aron. Yes. That's where the confusion comes up. But yes, he's in Scotland. I believe that he was, but it was one of those things you do not want to get those two mixed up. Yeah, no, no, no. You know him better than I have and I don't want to cause any rift there. He may go from being one of the most loyal to least loyal listeners in the space of 20 seconds. Sorry about that Cams. We will link to your proper location in the show notes, but he is at a Brodyk post office. So we will put that in there. But yeah, he's been great. It's fun listening. Excuse me, reading all his reviews of our episodes and it's Mike and I have gotten a huge kick out of talking to him. And what he's done is he's actually taken some of the information he's gained in this episode and added to the product lines that they're actually selling at the post office, which that's kind of a weight on our shoulders, Mike. Yeah, I mean, we're now directly contributing to this man's living, which is kind of, kind of scary a little bit. But yeah, so no pressure Cams. We appreciate that. No pressure at all. So we're linking to his blog because it's a really cool blog actually. He's got a couple of posts about pens, but there's one that's just really cool. He talks about the show, talks about the things that he's bought and some of the stuff that he's changing in his post office. It's just really cool. I love the interaction that we have with all of our listeners and it's just nice. It's just cool to see this stuff. Yeah, we talk about it all the time, but it's a great community around this podcast and we love all you guys. So we appreciate all the support for sure. Always continue to get in touch with us because this is the sort of stuff that I think it makes what we do feel really worthwhile for us is to know that people listen and to know that people really enjoy it and that for as much as we're spending money, spending your money for you, you're actually getting a kick out of the show too and we love it. We love it. We love the listeners that are panicking podcasts. Don't tell anyone, but you guys are the best listeners. Don't tell anyone. I know I don't tell anyone. Keep it on the down low. Don't tell those other guys. I don't tell them. Oh, man. So, you know, in probably in relation to some of Cam's comments to us before, I've actually made an update on the panatic.com that might help him help him a little bit more. I have, I keep a top five pens list that's still a work. It's a still a work in progress on the site and it's kind of a living page where I keep updating my top five pens list and after I made the first batch of the first list of top five's, I had a bunch of comments saying which other lists I needed to add. So it took me a while to get to some of these and there's still a few more that I want to get to, but I've added four new lists on my top five pens page and we'll link to this in the show notes, but I just wanted to go over them real quick because a lot of people been asking about them. The first one I've added is the top five ballpoint pens and we talked about last episode and we talked about tip sizes and things like that and this is very relevant to ballpoint pens as much as any and we're actually going to do part two of this NIMP conversation later in this episode. But my top five ballpoint pens, the Uniball Jetstream 0.5 millimeter. I know I talked last episode about how much I love the 0.38. I'm a little bit scared to put that on there just yet because I don't want people to sometimes people take me literally on what to purchase and have emailed me after like you said you like this pen, I bought it and I don't like it and I think we've, I think people know better than to do that. This is a list, this is a list of what I personally use. This is not a list of what I recommend you purchase, if that makes sense. So this is just to give you an idea of what my personal favorites are. Not a list you should go out and go. Well, Brad says these pens are great, let me go buy them. You got to make sure that it's the right fit for you. So still the Uniball Jetstream 0.5 is really the kind of the sweet spot. The 0.38 is super fine. I love it. The 0.5 is kind of the sweet spot. Second is the Acrobat which some, there's some days where that's, that's a number one for me. It's really the ballpoint. It's really one into the Jetstream and the Acrobat. Everything else is down below that. The Pinto Vicuna is actually a kind of a surprising pen to me. It, every time I use it, it always writes so, so well. It doesn't quite make it into the Jetstream Acrobat category, but it's a really, really great option. It's got some of the most, the darkest black ballpoint ink that I've ever used. It's really nice. Kind of a surprising one and one that surprised me all along is the Pilot Doctor Grip. It's a traditional ballpoint where the other four pens on this list are hybrid ballpoint inks. You'll have to listen back to the episodes. I'm sure we've, we've discussed that. Those difference it several times, but the Doctor Grip is one of the most consistent writing, traditional ballpoint ink pens that I've used. And of course it comes with a, with a comfortable grip. That's its whole selling point around the Doctor Grip. And then the fifth one is the Zebra Sorari. I find it to be a little more consistent than other hybrid ballpoint inks like the Vicuna Acrobat and Jetstream. But I do like that it comes in a 0.5 and that's been, it has a nice barrel. It's comfortable. I just don't think it's quite at the Acrobat Jetstream level of writing consistency, but it's a really good pen. One of the lists that I wanted to do the most, and I think I had some people ask about it, but was the top five pen and pencil cases, because that's something I'm kind of passionate about. I buy a lot of pen cases. I hate to even do this, but my number one is not allowed. I use this pen case every day. No more. I mean, I don't know what to do about that. So it's the Nomadic PD 04 roller pen case. It's the best pen case that I've ever used. It is no longer for sale. So I don't know what to do. Do I include in the list? I mean, I'd literally use this case every day. I don't know what the right thing to do is, but it's the best pen case I use. I love it. It's got a great combination of pen dividers. It's got a large pocket for just holding random stuff, and it's got some smaller pockets to hold smaller items like ink cartridges and erasers. So to me, it's the best, but I'm sorry. You're not going to be able to buy one. What you can buy, though, is probably the second most case pen case that I use is the DONE paper leather for barrel holster. It will hold four pens, but it won't hold four fountain pens. I usually carry three fountain pens in it. I just don't want to jam them in there real tight, but it's just a beautifully well-made pen case that I use. I'll actually take, if I'm not going to carry the roller, which I usually carry five fountain pens in, I'll take three of them out, put them in the holster and carry them that way. Missing a link there, buddy? I know because I don't have it reviewed. So there are some you will see with not, this has been actually a good exercise for me because I've gone through and I'm surprised at how many of these products I haven't reviewed. So if there's no link, that means I owe a review for the product. Even though I've talked about it a million times, I've given one of these away on my blog, actually the holster when it came out, I've just never actually reviewed it. So that gives me a good reminder of some of the reviews I need to follow up on. The third one is the altar manufacturing mod O2 pen case. I use this case a lot for just general storage, probably like my, this holds a lot. So like my fountain pens go in the nomadic and the dome and then like my other nice pens, like the render K and some of the other pens like that that I use very frequently go in the altar mod O2. It's just a very thick durable canvas and velcro case that I like a lot. And number four is a lot like that too. It's the nomadic PE 10 tri fold. You know, it's an envelope style where it folds over. There's four slots. I use that one for fountain pens that are cleaned and just in storage that are not used right now. And then the fifth one is the Kokuyu Neocrits transformer. That case has been around since the beginning of my blog. I mean, well, it's been around before that, but I reviewed it shortly after I started pen addict. And it's still one of the best cases around just for portability. This is a great student workspace portable case because it's just an open, open concept, the pen stand vertically. And then you unzip it, stand it up on your desk, turn the flap down and it stands up like a pen cup. And it's really cool. It's really, really well made. I'm a huge fan of that case. And I've given away a couple of them on the blog. So definitely check that one out if you're looking for, you know, just kind of more of a general pen storage. Top five Kickstarter pens. I got asked a bunch about this one. This was kind of a hard list to do because I really only use a few of them regularly. But I do have some thoughts on the other ones. The one I use the most and the one we talk about the most is the render K. I'm such a high tech C fan that that's pretty much the only pen I use these days with a high tech C. If I'm using a high tech C, it's probably in one of my render case. I think I've got three of them at this point and I'm lusting after a up. I'm having a hard time not buying the solid black one because it looks pretty cool. But we'll see. They, Caris Customs has some other stuff up their sleeve. They've been tweeting out some I'm saving my funds for the upcoming project. You never have the cool ones like me though. I know Mike still has the coolest. Mike has the Delrin. He's got some cool stuff. Number two is a surprise. It's been one of the better purchases I made through Kickstarter. It's called the Now and Then Eco Essential Pen. There's no link for that one because I haven't reviewed it yet. But what it is, it's a bamboo. It's a high tech C. It's for the high tech C. Refill. It's a bamboo with a silver cap and the cap's got a stylus on it. It's very well balanced and comfortable pen to write with. It's not too light. It's not too heavy. Everything about it is just right. The stylus works good. I carry that in my backpack a lot just because I like the stylus to have the stylus handy. The third one is the solid titanium pen and stylus. That one's really good too. That one is really popular because that's the one that you can fit probably 50, 60, 70 refills in. I don't use that one as much but it does fit the pilot high tech C cavalier refill which is what I use in the solid tie pen and stylus. The fourth one is the pen type A which is really the one that started off this whole thing. It would rank higher. It's just not for me in the design. It's not a portable pen. You can't throw that pen in your pocket the way it's designed but it's as beautiful of a design as you'll ever see. It's just really more of a desk type pen or something you keep at your office or wherever you're writing. It's just not high on the portability so it doesn't fit that need for me like a render K or some of these other options do. The fifth one is the premiere P1. Every time I've added this all my Kickstarter pens are sitting on my desk in the dude, the pen holder that might do deck made for both you and I. I love the looks of these premiere pen P1s. They're very sleek and they're very well made. It's just a very nice, nice looking pen. Excuse me. Oh my goodness. I think I'm going to make it. Send help for my pen problem. That's what you need to send. The last top five that I've added which you I think alluded to at the intros, the top five extreme weather pens. This is a category that didn't used to be a category. It used to be one pen and it used to be the Fisher space pen and there was nothing else. Well in the past I guess decade or so maybe not even that long. Several other companies have started making the basis around it is the pressurized ink, ballpoint ink refill which allows you to write upside down in extreme heat and extreme cold right on dirty surfaces, on wood, just in all kinds of extreme conditions. The Tombow air press is easily my favorite just for body style and consistency of writing. It's handled everything. It's not like I'm on a sled going to the North Pole or something but in what I need this pen to do, it's worked really well for me. Like I said, I keep it in my car. I get emails or tweets all the time. Hey, what's that pen you say you keep in your car all the time? It's the Tombow air press just because it can stand the Georgia heat and I can pick it up and I'll start writing. I also like the uniball power tank. That's the second one on the list. There's a few different models. I like the newer barrel design of the power tank and they also make a high end model that I like. It's really good looking. Third, I have to put it on there because I really use the refills a lot and that's the Fisher space pen. It's still a classic and it's still extremely popular. It's just that really traditional bullet style fits easily in your pocket fits great with a memo book in your pocket and that's what a lot of people use that is their everyday carry pen just because of its slim profile and its ability to write in pretty much any situation. The little brother to the Tombow air press is the Tombow air press a pro. I like it for its smaller profile. This pen was really marketed as like a, gosh why do you say it, not like a, I don't know for professionals to use like waitresses, people in restaurants, people who are having to use a pen, having to use it quickly and having to use it in a lot of situations. It's a little bit cheaper than the air press, a little bit better looking than the air press. I like the more, the more serious look of the traditional air press but the a pro is actually a really, really good option, really good pen. And then the fifth is the pilot downforce. I've just been using it recently and it writes really, really well. I don't like the barrel design as much as some of these other ones but for you know, a right anywhere type pen, it's a really good option. So I am flushing out the top five list as we go and I'm going in adding comments. I've started adding, you know, little blurbs on some of the other lists that I've done. And I've still got some more lists to go like our friend, Tophur, it's not Tophur as he, he vined me the other day on, on Twitter how to pronounce his, his name. He, he wants a top five inks list and that that will be fountain pen inks list. So that will be coming soon. So I've been working at keeping this list up to date and it'll be changing. And you know, one of the things that's going to change is the top five pens overall. That's probably going to change pretty soon. Just got to get the time to do it. So I just wanted to let everyone know that those updates are out there. And if you have suggestions for more lists that you would like to see, definitely get in touch. Excellent. So you didn't fall asleep while I was rambling there? Not at all. I was following along. I was looking down the list and clicking links for things I wasn't that not that familiar with. Good. Good. Good. Any questions? No. No, you're too smart for me. How could I question your top five lists? Oh, please, please. I mean, they're yours on there. I can't question them. That's true. Fair enough. I mean, all I would say is I don't understand how the jet stream would be your number one of anything because I really don't like that pen. But I know I'm in the minority with that. Well, no, I think the jet stream 1.0 is a really bad pen. I don't like it at all. That would be why because that's probably I think that's what I have. Yeah. It's it's it's very it's much more inconsistent than the smaller tip size is surprisingly enough. It's a lot it's a little bit messier, a little bit globbier. I have never had good I used to not like the jet stream at all because of the 1.0 millimeter size. And I wouldn't try the new ones for the longest time because I had such a bad experience with the 1.0s. But now that I found the smaller tip sizes, I love them. Brilliant. Yep. So yeah, we need to we had a good discussion about about nibs and tip sizes. Last episode kind of a part one of we'll do a part two in this episode. You want to go ahead and do our sponsor and then we'll get into more of this nib talk because I still got more. I still have plenty to talk about. Of course, what a great what a great idea. So I wanted to take a moment to thank our fantastic sponsor for this week's episode. And that is of course the fine folks over at squarespace.com who give you absolutely everything you need to make an amazing website. 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Last week we talked about we had an emailer talking about nib and tip sizes and why people choose certain things. I wanted to elaborate on the differences between some tip sizes. I started off the conversation around why ballpoint, rollerball, and gel while they maybe mark the same or measure the same tip size they actually line with you're going to get on the page is different. And I wanted to continue that conversation because another topic that I get emailed probably as much as any is around fountain pen nibs. And I know we've covered this before and I've made it perfectly clear that people need to be aware of the differences and fountain pen sizes, you know, an F nib on one manufacturer, a fine nib from one manufacturer is not going to be the same as a fine nib from another manufacturer. And I just wanted to continue that conversation and just reiterate some of that discussion just because those are the questions that a lot of new listeners have and people that are just starting to get into fountain pens which I'm seeing more and more every day especially as my fountain pen addiction grows. I'm seeing other people starting to get the bug and they continue to have the same question and it revolves around the basic premise is Japanese nibs, fountain pen nibs versus German fountain pen nibs. Those are the two most popular nibs I guess in the fountain pen world. They're both super high quality. There's no difference in quality between these nibs. The Japanese make beautiful steel nibs, beautiful gold nibs. They have some of the best of the best nib manufacturers in the world and the Germans the same way the steel nibs and the gold nibs. There's no quality issues when comparing those two. They're both elite. Whether the differences lie in what they believe is the right, the sizing for the nibs. So what you'll see in general, and I'm going to make that clear in general, a German nib will be wider than its counterpart Japanese nib. So a Lami F nib, which is a fine nib, which is a German pen, a Lami F nib is going to write a wider line than a Japanese say pilot F nib. There you can almost take it as in the German nibs comparing to the Japanese nibs. If a German, if you have a German F nib, you can assume that the Japanese F nib is going to write like one step down for the German nib. It'll write like a German F nib, if that makes sense, if I'm explaining that correctly. So people get that. A lot of people will buy, oh, I just bought this Japanese F nib and, you know, after looking at some German, you know, writing samples, you know, someone using a Lami F nib and the lines twice as wide or something crazy and they don't like that fineness of it. And then conversely, someone wants an extra, extra fine nib and they buy, you know, a German EF nib and it's wider than, you know, a Japanese medium nib. So you have to pay attention. And, you know, there's tools out there on the web that can show you some comparisons like Goulay. Goulay Pins has a great, I think it's called nib, nib nook, where you can compare some of the line widths and they've done a good job there, where you can actually see some visual comparisons. But I get this, this might be the most asked question, you know, which nib size should I purchase? And you just have to be aware of, you know, what the differences are and what nibs manufacturers are using. Now, some of the confusion comes into play, especially with a brand like Twizzbee. Twizzbee is a Taiwanese company. You would think they would use the Asian nib standard, but what they do, Twizzbee buys German nibs. So you don't want, don't let Twizzbee fool you in thinking that an extra fine nib is going to be something like a Japanese extra fine nib, which really light a Japanese extra fine nib right somewhere in the order of about 0.35 to 0.4 millimeter, like a gel ink pen would, like a pilot high-tech C, 0.4 millimeter, you're going to be close to a Japanese EF nib. I mean, they are super, super, super fine. That's what I use a lot. Twizzbee sources their nibs from Germany. So an extra fine Twizzbee nib is going to be something along the lines of a lommie extra fine. They're going to be very similar in line width, maybe not exact, but it's going to be more along the lines of the German sizing because that's where they're sourcing their nibs from. So you really have to pay attention when you're getting down to spending your money on a fountain pen. If the nib size is a concern and you're unsure about it, you need to do some research on what's going to be the proper fit for you because I don't want people buying the wrong things. I just want them to be informed when they're making this type of purchasing decision. So in along those lines, the differences between gold nibs like 14-carat gold or 21-carat gold in a pilot or a pelican versus say a similar steel nib. I've been able to test a bunch of pens for my friend Thomas and a bunch of similar nibs sizes and trying to determine, okay, does a gold nib right differently? Does it right smoother? Is it softer than a corresponding steel nib? And the difference is very, very minimal. You're paying a premium for the gold nib. Yes, maybe it's a fraction softer and a fraction smoother, but in my experience, the steel nibs being made these days by German manufacturers and then from, you know, in pens like the Twizzbee, they're such high quality. I don't sweat getting a steel nib and making that choice for a steel nib over a gold nib or things like that because the steel nibs are such high quality these days, the smoothness and softness is there that people can tell, you can tell a slight difference between the two, but if people are asking me if there's a huge difference in how a gold and steel nib writes, it's more of a slight difference. I think other people might have different opinions on that than me. I'm not saying there's no difference, there's definitely some difference, but it's not an extreme difference. I think Twizzbee nibs, they're all steel and those are some of the best nibs going. I mean, they're all super smooth. I mean, you use several Twizzbees mic. I mean, what do you think about those steel nibs? I love them. I think that they're just excellent, really, really excellent. Yeah, and I mean, I think you will find that, you know, the manufacturer, someone like Edison Penn, who's making manufacturing a bunch of pens and you can, that's a company where you can choose steel or gold and, you know, it's 100 or $125 premium, you might want to consider the steel in the same barrel, because it's, I mean, it's hard to say until you've used them yourself. And I think some people will probably disagree with me on this, but I don't have a huge, I don't see a huge discrepancy. I can tell some difference, but, you know, in the smoothness and the quality, I mean, I think steel nibs or steel nibs are just fine, although I have started to dabble in some gold, some gold nibs here recently with my Pelican, my Pelican purchase. And of course, like the vanishing point, Mike, that you and you and I have, that's a gold nib. So anyway, I just wanted to point that out, that there's not, I don't find a huge, just to be a huge performance difference between gold and steel. So that's, that's some of the discussion around fountain pin nibs that I get asked about a lot. And one thing I don't get asked about a lot, but when I did want to make a point of is, since we're talking about nib sizes and tip sizes and measurements, you know, around those areas is in pencils. Now, a lot of us, you know, I'm starting to get into wood case pencils. And that's one thing that, that tip size is, you know, depending on, on sharpeners, I'm talking more about mechanical pencils, drafting pencils, things of that nature. And, you know, lead holders, there's a huge variety out there for lead pencils. You know, just like a ballpoint pin, you're not, you don't have to be stuck buying the 1.0 millimeter ballpoint pin. There's other options out there that might be better for you. The same thing goes with pencils. You don't have to go to the store and buy a 0.7 millimeter lead pencil. You know, there's obviously 0.5 millimeters of very common measurement out there. You can go, they used to be, I don't think they make a 0.2 millimeter anymore. There used to be a manufacturer that made a 0.2 millimeter lead. There may still be one out there. 0.3 is about as small as I've seen. And this is actually, this is actually one of the truer measurements, Mike. I mean, it's based on the lead dimensions. I mean, it's just fact. It's, it's a fixed measurement. This is the dimension. Obviously, as you wear the pencil, the line with changes, but it's a fixed dimension. So you'll see several manufacturers make a 0.3 lead, 0.5 and 0.7 are kind of the main sweet spots. I kind of, there's a, OTO makes a 0.4 that I like. There's a, I don't know how many companies make a 0.4. I think I find 0.3 millimeter leads to be too fragile. While I like my 0.3 millimeter gel ink pens, 0.3 lead pencils, mechanical pencils and drafting pencils, that gets a little bit too fragile for me. And then you can go up to 0.9, 1.3 millimeter leads. And then you start getting into, to lead holders, which a lot of artists and, and sketches and engineers and designers use, where they use the real thick leads and, you know, a lead holder that slides out, you know, like one huge piece of lead that they continually sharpen and, and things like that goes, goes go up to gosh, two millimeters and even larger, I think. So there's, there's lots of options out there. You got to do your research and, and you got to ask me in my questions if you have them. So we're, we're more than glad to help because I know you guys have these questions because this is what keeps hitting in my inbox. I think that's very comprehensive. In a good way, you know, I think that's the kind of stuff that people I like to believe people are looking for. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, the, and I didn't know these things when I started doing it, you know, I, one of the first pins fountain pins I bought was a, a Lamy extra fine. And, you know, not knowing, you know, how it relates to other manufacturers. I was like, oh, this is a nice line. It's a fine line. I don't think it's as fine as something that I want. Um, is there something I can, does Lamy make an extra extra fine then, then I find out that, oh, well, if I look at some of these japanese manufacturers and look at their fine nibs, I'm going to have a different writing experience. And then that's when the, uh, the light bulb kind of went off and I was like, Oh, that's what I need to look at. So as it turns out, I like, Japanese gel ink pens. And that turned into a Japanese fountain pen obsession, which I'm kind of having a little, uh, problem with right now. Definitely in the wallet. Yes. Yeah. I think I'm definitely more of a German. Yeah. Yeah. Cause, um, yeah. And that's what, that's why, uh, we, we make a good partnership for the show because we, we have different writing styles. We have different needs for, you know, what we want to write with, you know, we both use different nib sizes and tip sizes every day. So it's good to be able to have that conversation around what's suiting your needs for the different situations that you're in. Yeah. Like we like a lot of the same things, but we don't necessarily like them the same way or, and, you know, there are some distinct differences. Yes. Yeah. And like, but I think both of us appreciate the same products. Like we understand that, you know, the pilot vanishing point is a real marble of engineering, and it's a beautiful pen. And you, but we both want a different writing experience out of that. So the one, the one thing I have, uh, you have assimilated me on those, someone is the retro 51. I haven't been changing out those refills. I've been using the the wider refills. They're just, they're just so smooth and easy to write with that. That's one of the more enjoyable wider nib pens that I use. So that it's 0.7 millimeter roller ball. And, uh, I have no reading. I used to be looking for options to change that out to something finer, but I don't, I don't think I want it. I think that, I think that refill is there for a reason. It works perfectly for that pen. And, uh, I'm, that's one that I'm, I'm right there with you on, on that one. Good. Good. So I think that, uh, I think that's about a wrap for this episode. We got, I did, I wanted to break that nib talk into two parts because I, I know how, I know how I get sometimes. I didn't want to have an hour and a half episode and then a 30 minute episode. So it kind of worked out good to split it, split it into. So hopefully everyone has caught up to both parts. And, uh, you know, as always, if you have questions getting touched, we're more than happy to help. And that's where the, you know, the topics for this, for the podcast come from, is from, from you guys, from you listeners. You know, these are the questions you guys have. And, you know, I want to be able to, uh, help you, uh, help you answer them. So, um, I'm glad to do it. Cool. Cool. Are we done? We're done, sir. Let's wrap it up. Awesome. You can catch up with us, um, on social networks. I am, I'm Mike. I am Y K E. Brad is, uh, at Dowdy D O W D Y on app.net. And he is Dowdyism D O W D Y I S M on Twitter. Brad also has his fantastic blog over at pen addict.com. Thank you very much for listening to this week's episode of the pen addict podcast. Um, until next time, bye bye. Bye bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]
