(upbeat music) - Welcome to Horror Cinema Obsession. Here, we dive deep into the chilling depths of horror cinema from the critically acclaimed scares to the laughably ludicrous, and even the delightfully obscure. Now, let's join our hosts, Richard and Angela's, as they share their love, laughs, and sometimes shared disbelief at the world of horror movies. All right, we are back. Welcome back to Horror Cinema Obsession. I'm Richard, one of your hosts. This is my beautiful co-host, Angela's. How you doing? - Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! - And over in the view corner, that's Vienna. How you doing? - Hi. - All right, this week has been a little chaos for us. We got back from Tacoma, and I wanna apologize on our last episode. I was just catching what we're gonna call it, the vids. I got super sick, and that night, recording night, is when it started, and man, I sounded a little bit irritable, so I apologize for that. But, oh my God, I had about five days being on my deathbed, and currently, Angela's, she's struggling through it right now. And same with Vienna, they're really troopers. They wanted to stick it out. They're like, how's like, should we... We can take the weekend off. We don't have to record. We can take this episode off. They're like, no. We're gonna power through for our listeners. We love you guys. So, Angela's, how would you start getting the vids? - I remember a different version of this happening. - What do you mean? - It was, we're recording tonight, damn it too. (laughing) - That wasn't me, I asked. I gave auctions, dude. I sorted God. - Richard is dedicated. - I am, I was gonna do it. I'm like the postal service. Rain, sleep, snow, I'm through it all. - Do you ever watch the movie The Postman? - Yeah, with Kevin Costner. - I don't know. They made us watch it in school. - I actually... - It was in tourist. - I watched that movie being filmed. They did it in Grand Coulee. - Oh. - I actually seen Kevin Costner. And that's how I became a huge movie fan. (laughing) - I'm kidding, I'm kidding. - Hello. - No, we couldn't see, like at that time, you gotta remember, Postman came out mid to the late 90s. That was peak Costner. So there's no way you're gonna get close to him, but we did see him in a distance and we got to see his trailer. It was cool. - Nice. - But not inside, but a youngster like me, I'm like, "The fuck's Kevin Costner?" I was like, "Dance on wolves?" That guy, fuck. - Fuck. - But anyways, yeah. That's funny that you said The Postman. I didn't realize you knew that what that movie was. - They made us watch it in a school for some reason. - Weird. - It was like the story of how The Post Office came about during the wars and shit. - Yeah, people in the email. - It was so important. - I know it. - It's not bad. - You mentioned in Grand Coulee, it reminded me of a story listening to another podcast. - Shout out Grand Coulee, Electric City. We love you. What's that restaurant down there? - I don't know. But their heart is doing fucking serial killers. - The Mexican restaurant. Shout it out. - Oh no, not Grand Coulee, sorry. I meant, what's up here? - Colville. - Colville, not Grand Coulee. - Yeah. - Beshara, Tulapras, and Grand Coulee, damn. - There you go. Anyways, we got sidetracked. You've been kind of sick, but you're started Thursday-ish, did you say? - Thursday, I woke up on my death bed. - Yeah, and you're struggling it right now. - My voice had abandoned me, and it hurt like a bee, and I don't recommend 21 to get the vids. - No. - It's not fun. You know, it was the worst part, the body aches, and then not tasting food. I never had the, not no taste, but the body aches were a real mofo, dude. I fell with my toes, my fingers. You felt it in your teeth. - I felt my teeth were hurting, it was weird, I would get this headaches coming, and even my gums hurt, it's stupid. - Yeah, that was crazy, dude. - And watching you guys last night, you freaking delicious Korean food, and I was just like-- - Dude, I scarfed that shit down. - Munching through my head, but it was just chewing on blood, nothing. - I felt so bad. I thought you were gonna get soup. That's why I was like, "Let's get Korean." - No. - So yeah, so guys, we're gonna try to give it maximum effort, we always do, but if Angela's is struggling-- - Richard will carry the torch. - I'm gonna carry it like I always do the talent. - Oh. - But-- (laughing) - But anyways, we're gonna be good. Be sure to tune into our commercial break. It is awesome. We utilized Angela's horrible voice. - My sick voice. - Yeah, your sick voice. - It sounds better today, yesterday. I could not carry a conversation, Thursday. I couldn't. - Tana, and we got good news though, we're moving next week, so we're packing. So all this is happening, all this is happening at once, it's real lovely stuff. - It's lovely, you know, not feeling energetic, but having to do adult shit. - I know, fuck. - Fudge. - But yeah, so enough of that, that's what our lives are going, complete nose dive into the ground. - So, we're not ignoring the socials, we're just trying to keep alive. - Stay alive and keep life moving. So this week, we've got an interesting movie that we reviewed and covered. As you've seen when you opened this episode, it is Maniac, 1980. Now, this movie, Angela's, have you seen this before? - No. - Thank you for the fucking recommendation. - I, so I have only seen this once, it was a very long time, and I didn't remember it, a whole lot. - Okay. - So this was like, holy shit, this was like watching it for the first time, and I watched it in my like hysteria, like my sickness, it was like a fever dream. That being said, I want your opinion on this because I think we differ a little bit. How did you feel about this movie? I want you to be real and unfiltered about it, don't hold back. - It was a great movie. I like the intent. I like the, I appreciate what the main actor and the writer and the director did, but holy crap, it was hard to follow. Some scenes dragged on for way too long. - Wait, wait, wait, wait. This is not what I got out of you before. - Yes, it is. I'm getting in there. - Okay. - All that breathing, he sat in there like me with the vids. Sucking the girls took me out of some of the scenes. I get this was 1980, so back then, it would have been like scary, the shots were good, the kills were good, but there was a lot of space in between where he's just stalking and breathing hard and moaning and I was like, oh my God, what the fuck is this? - The pacing of it is the issue you had mainly, right? - Pacing and then... - And the acting a little bit? - Not the acting, I get acting, this was 1980s, this is what was the thing. - Whoa, whoa, whoa, there's still great actors in the '80s. - Nowadays. - What, there's great acting, there's great actors and then there's great actors now. - No, not the actors. - I'll admit, I'll admit, this was poor, it could have been acted better. - I'm saying the style, 'cause I've shown you some older movies and we've seen much older movies and soap operas, and that was the acting at the time, very dramatic, very screamingy. - Whoa, that's what I'm saying though, the acting is more soap opera than actual movie acting. - Movie acting? - Yeah, but for me, it was a times, it was confusing, it's fucking dark, it's a fucked up story. Like, it was a lot. - Yeah, so I am a little more friendly around this movie, I didn't have a hard time following it, I thought it was clear, he has mommy issues and he's taken out on women, typical serial killer stuff. I thought at times it was interesting, like you though, is this movie perfect? No, the pacing on this was horrible, there were certain scenes where it could have been cut down dramatically, and this movie, there's no reason this movie was 130 minutes, it honestly should have been around 110, in my opinion. And they could have cut about 20 minutes out of this thing and we would have been a really good, it actually would have been a better movie in my opinion, but. - I did go and I watched the remake. - Yeah, so how was up? - It was, I still didn't like it. - Okay. (laughs) - It was, the story was similar, some of the stuff that just reminded me of newer technology, newer effects. - Yeah, at least they stayed true to it. - They did a better job of filling in the space, like those scenes that dragged on really long, they did better, like something was happening at least. - So you weren't just watching people hiding. - I think this movie, the 1980 version, I think for what it is, for 1980s, you don't remember, this is before the slashers took off. This thing really set the tone for how dark things were gonna get and how dark things could get. - Dude, it's moving out fucking censored. - Well yeah, they had to cut a lot out, think about that. So that's another piece I wanted to talk about, is Tom Savini. This is one of Tom Savini's movies where he did the gore and did the special effects. Boy howdy, like a lot of this is fucking awesome. It really takes this movie to the next level in the effects and all, the kills were really great, the scalping was really great. So that's a piece I like, his acting was great, so it has a memorable scene and newsflash spoiler. That was my favorite kill. - Tom Savini? - Yeah, Tom Savini. Are you familiar? I watched the documentary of him this morning. - It's odd, Dina was great. He was barely in there. - I know, but he did a great part and then that fucking kill. - I'm gonna have to be secure with you. All he did was get in my car and drive. What they lady in was like-- - I thought it was great and he fucking shot himself, dude. That was the most memorable kills of the 80s. I guarantee it, one of them. That effect of him blowing his head off was fucking awesome. And they put it in our trailer, how cool is that? - That was in the trailer? - Yeah. - Oh, yeah. - I didn't watch the trailer. I went straight for the fucking thing. - Damn, well, when I put together our social media, I don't want to promote it. - I saw it. I didn't see the head gible on off in the commercial though. - Gosh, you didn't watch. - You just answered it. - You didn't watch. All right, so yes, maniac, 1980. It was made on a modest budget of approximately $350,000 despite its controversial content and graphic violence. It performed relatively well at the box office for low budget horrors. It grossed around $10 million. That's pretty good for $350,000 invested. - Wow, I got more on this budget thingy. - Yeah, sure. What do you got? - So the original was actually $48,000 is where it started. - Yeah. - And then $6,000 was from Joe Spinnell, Spinnell's. - Yeah, his own money. That's the start of the movie. - Yeah, that was his own money. And then he completed another movie and that was another $12,000. Another $12,000 came from Andrew Garoni and the rest, the remaining $30,000 came from Loostig and that was proper because before the director, he was in the adult film industry. So that's where a lot of this money came from and they put it, yeah, they put money into a stock market account and it grew to $135,000. And then finally British producer, Jude Hamilton, came up with the remaining $200,000 to complete the movie with one condition that he's then wife at the time, Caroline Monroe, who plays Anna, the photographer, would be cast as a heroine in the movie. - That's awesome. - It cost them $200,000 for his next wife. - That's amazing. So this film, it got cult status and I'm not sure when, so it was made in 1980, a little bit before our time, right? But from documentaries that I've seen and then growing up, hearing about it, never fully watching it, but hearing about it, it really did have that cult. Like, oh my God, this thing was epic because of the kills and how like dark the material is. - Yeah. - And it did, it gained a cult following over time, particularly due to the unsettling portrayal of a disturbed killer and its notable effects. Again, Tom Savini being the special effects guy that everybody knows that created a following. You know, people just sought out his work. So I think that helped maniac as well. Now, this film was primarily filmed on a location in New York City, the gritty urban landscapes of the late '70s and early '80s, New York plays a significant role in the film's atmosphere contributing to its grim and unsettling tone. Excuse me, the setting's supposed to be seedy, rundown areas of the city, especially in Manhattan, which mirrors the dark and disturbed mind of the film's protagonist Frank Zito. The film captures that urban decay of the time with scenes taking place in abnormal buildings or abandoned buildings, sorry, dirty streets and dingy apartments, further emphasizing the bleak and hopeless environment in which the story unfolds, the setting perfectly compliments the grim and disturbing nature of Frank's character and his violent acts. Now, that to my notes, how do you feel about that? Do you think it kind of matched? I think it did that grittiness. I think it really does a good job capturing that dirty, filthy '70s New York. Yes, I think they did a really good job of that. A lot of the settings for this film, a lot of the scenes. Yeah. It just looks down and dingy like it was. Like they've cleaned New York up scents, but in the '70s, it was a dangerous place, man. Eel. Crazy. Do you have anything on that, on the environment? I did have that they shot a lot of the scenes in Guerilla style because they had issues getting permits to film around the city in certain areas, including the shotgun scene. It had to be filmed within an hour. At one point, there was something about that gun that he shots getting thrown into a trunk and then someone else was there to drive the car off. Oh, shit. In case the police actually showed up because they hurt gunshots. Yeah. Because they didn't have the proper permits. Oh, fuck man. So they're really-- Yeah, they were really filming. Like running and filming and going. That's cool. So I did, I was curious on this and I got some more notes, what inspired this movie. And for like the director, his approach on this, he really wanted-- he delved deeply into the psychology of disturbed killers, focus on inner turmoil rather than simply his acts of violence. So he was inspired by films like Taxi Driver with De Niro, the Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Lustig wanted to create something that would tap into real life fears and shock audiences. He chose a gritty, realistic style that felt Ron disturbing, giving Maniac a documentary like Quality. Watch, I don't really agree with it being a documentary. I don't feel like it was. The grittiness, I think it matches really well with Texas Chainsaw Massacre. And I think it does have a little bit of Taxi Driver in it too. Have you ever seen that one? Probably haven't. Not a Taxi Driver. We should watch that. It's pretty good. But yeah, you've seen the original Chainsaw, right? No, you don't let me. Is that what we have to cover it? I'm not your keeper with the hell, dude. Well, anyways, for me, it does capture that raw grittiness of that, which I kind of like, which I'm assuming I've never seen the new Maniac. Like the re-done, is that polished? I'm assuming. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything's a lot cleaner. Gotcha. And then I do got a little bit on Joe Spinnell's influence. If you don't mind me going through that? No, tell us about the documentary you woke up bright and early this morning. No, what? It's Tom Savini. I'm talking about Joe Spinnell's. So Spinnell-- Oh, the director. No, the actor. So Spinnell, he plays Frank Zito. He was not only the lead actor, but also co-writer. And one of the driving forces behind the films, Spinnell drew inspiration from real life killers. And I thought this was fascinating. Like David Berkowitz, the son of Sam, combining elements of their stories with patrol of Frank Spinnell's dedication to making Frank a truly disturbed tragic character at the layers of psychological depth that made the film more unsettling. So do you know anything about the son of Sam? I've watched a few things on it. He said demons were talking through animals and he was killing people. Yeah, like, now it remains to be seen if he was making that shit up to, you know. But I do see where Spinnell got it where his, in this movie, again, there's gonna be spoilers here, guys. But his mom's talking to him. He's constantly talking and... Here in the voices. For two people, yeah. So he does the voice of his mommy, he does the voice for himself. And it's inner thoughts. So you got a lot going on. So I can see where you were a little bit confused when a lot of this dialogue's flying because I think a lot of it was nonsense and it was supposed to be nonsense. Okay. So that was kind of his influence on that. And that's what drove him to want to create this movie and really pushed hard for it. And then again, Tom Savini's special effects. He's a legendary artist. Everybody knows if you know a whore and you're into whore, you know Tom Savini. The movie's groundbreaking gore and makeup effects, which were some of the most realistic and brutal of the area. One of the film's most infamous scenes where a shotgun blows a man's head apart, it happens to be his sounds became an iconic moment. And this, I can't say it, a comic moment in horror because of Savini detailed practical effects worked. That doesn't make sense. This level of graphic violence shot so viscerally was really seen in the mainstream film, was rarely seen in the mainstream films at the time, making Maniac feel much more intense than other horror films from the 80s. Sorry guys, I can't read. But again, this was a shift in horror at this time. So, at the time like Maniac was made, horror films were transitioning from supernatural themes to more human-based psychological horrors. Like the success of Halloween in '78, we had Friday the 13th, 1980, so it was made the same years Maniac, showed audiences were interesting killers who were more grounded in reality. Maniac took this a step further though, offering a glimpse into the mind of a serial killer rather than just showing the victim's perspective, which made the film stand out, which is a little bit different, even like that was kind of groundbreaking for 1980. Having that POV of the killer, you knew who he was right off the bat. Anyways, let's see, what else do you have? I feel like I'm rambling on, I'm sorry. - I mentioned that the movie was censored by a lot of different places. So it was, I'm not sure if you're familiar, but apparently in Britain, there was this video nasty in the early 1980s. - Yes, the horror movies were called video nasties, I believe. - So this movie in specific, it was not prosecuted for obscenity, neither officially listed as video nasty, but it was still seized by various police forces across greater Manchester and Lancaster. - I think so, think about that in the '80s. - During the panic. So in the '80s, think about that though, you couldn't watch horror movies if the government deemed it to the censories, the senses, you know what I mean? - Yeah. - Isn't that insane? - That is nuts. The film was also not submitted for an MPAA, but it was released as unrated for adults only. And as a result of that, there were several edited versions of the movie that received an R rating and they were distributed in the South eventually in 1981. So a whole year later. - Yeah, wow, it did make its way though, that's crazy. - Yeah. It's being quoted as one of the greatest latter horror films ever made. So yeah, it was censored in some places. I think I had another note summary further down, who more censorship that it went through. And just people were freaking out was one of the main things that kept popping up when I was doing my research. They thought that it was abusing the violence that was taking place and obviously influencing real life crime and glorifying it. So they did not like it. - I mean, we're in the height of serial killers at that moment, you know what I mean? You had Bundy running around, son of Sam just got caught like a few years prior. It's kind of, so people were probably a little freaked out. - Yeah. - I do have a fun fact about it. So listeners, if you watched the movie, if you noticed Joe Spinnell was sweating, that is not like intentionally, it became intentionally. But I learned that Spinnell had a medical condition that caused him to sweat excessively. And many scenes in Maniac had to be adjusted due to his profuse sweating, which headed to the characters unsettling and grimy appearance. - That's nuts. - Yeah, I thought that was kind of crazy. And then the censorship issue, I do have that. Dude, Spinnell's death, the film started tragically died in '89. I didn't know that due to complications from his hemophilia, his legacy, however, is often tied to the iconic role of Maniac. - I did find the other band that I had. - What's up? - This was the first ever film band in West Germany. It was declared in 1983 by the Court of Munich. There were various releases that were banned separately by different courts totaling nine. And only one, only in 2019. So that was like, what, five years ago? Where the band's lifted by three different courts. So this is crazy, that was Germany. Some people have never gotten a chance, never got a chance to watch this. - Damn, dude, that's crazy. So, yeah, that's pretty cool. Do you have anything else? - There was at one point they had a marketing campaign that they set up in New York and they had Minnie's green kiosks in front of theaters. And they were showing a few minutes of the uncut footage, including some of the murders. But in the back firing, there was a guy Gene Siskel, I'm not sure who he is, but apparently he had a TV show. And he condemned them doing this. - Yeah, he was a movie reviewer. - So they ended up canceling and having to remove a lot of those kiosks from places that had been set up in like Chicago and Los Angeles. - So this movie's interesting because I got a note here, like the influence within the horror genre. Maniac ranks quite high for its psychological realism and as a bridge between the '70s horror aesthetic and more polished slasher films that followed in the '80s. But in terms of general popularity, it's often seen as more of a niche film compared to mainstream '80s horror. But it's cult status and underground appeal have kept it alive in horror circles. As far as critical reception like you were just talking about, it's polarizing. Some see it as a grim masterpiece while others view it as too exploitive like Cisco. But among horror aficionados, Maniac is often regarded as one of the essential '80s horror films for its raw intensity and psychological depth. Now we've watched quite a few of these horror movies already for this episode and even beyond before we started this episode, right? What are your thoughts on that? Like, is this like, do you think it's a pivotal horror movie for its time? - I think it is. It came on early on. - I think it pushed the envelope. - It was for, you know, for being a 1980 movie, I think it was definitely up to it because there's a lot of gore, there's a lot of violence. - I think it did bridge the gap between '70s and '80s. It was the next gap. - It wasn't like a tame, like, giggly teenagers being traced down. It was like, this guy, he has serious deep mental issues. - And middle age, he's not attractive. He's not even really going with a lot of attractive people. It doesn't matter who you are, he's gonna kill you. - And the way he just can't control himself. And, you know, just seeing someone from like the point of view struggling with his mental problems and then he's only outlet is just killing a random woman and taking it out of them. - Yeah, I think, so this movie, well, it might not be as iconic as The Shining or Halloween. I think like you're talking about as grim as it is, I think it's frequently it's cited as, you know, like it's influence extends far beyond its initial release. So it has its place, I think. I didn't realize how heavy until I did this research of like, oh, shit, there's a lot of influence. It led to other movies, '80s and on. So that's pretty cool. - It's freaking nuts, man. - Do you want to, let's keep this train rolling. Do you want to talk about the cast? We've been kind of bouncing all over the place, but are you ready for that? - Yeah. - Let's start with our boy, Joe Spinel as Frank Zito. - He had an early life. - Like you said, he was in Taxi Driver. He was in Rocky II, vigilante. - Dude, okay, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You're not even giving this guy credit. This guy was awesome, man. He was in the Godfather, one in two. He played Willie Cece, come on, man. He's a loyal soldier in the Corioloni Corleone crime family. - My very choice. - So his appearance in the film is one of the most recognizable roles. What the fuck, man? You start off with like, what was it? Taxi Driver? - Are you having watched the Godfather, man? That's your house. - Hi, come on. - That's your house. - Well, we need to watch it 'cause it's a pivotal piece of cinematography. - I don't know, last time I was like, I'll watch it and you were like, you are not ready for it. - Yeah. (laughs) But he does play, he plays Tony Gazzo in Rocky in 1976. He's a lone shark. He played in Taxi Driver. He had a small role as a bartender in the film. And then Maniac, and then he was in Night Hawks in 1981. And the last horror film in '82, he reunited with Caroline Monroe. Spinel played a deranged Taxi Driver, obsessed with a movie star. It shares thematic similarities with Maniac. - I have cries for him in '89 in rapid fire. - Sure. - Sure. But I think from what I've seen, he's best remembered for the Godfathers, one and two and Maniac. Pretty much solidified him as a notable figure in the '70s and '80s. And then we do have, again, we just mentioned her, it's Caroline Monroe. She plays Anna Dantoni. So she is the, the investor. - That photographer. - Yeah, but she was the investor's wife. - The producer's, yeah, my producer's wife. - Yeah, that gave the 200,000, right? - Mm-hmm. - So, yeah, that's kind of cool. So did she have a lot of acting experience or what? - Not a lot, not that I saw. I saw a few things, Howl of the Devil, back in '88, Frank Ula in 2017. And most recently, the presence of Snowgood in 2023. - Whoa, she's still acting. - Yeah. - Damn. - Damn. - So, I have her in, I have her in a few things. She was in Dracula '80, 1972. The Golden Voyage of Sinbad. The Spy Who Loved Me. That was a big one, a memorable bond girl who works for the villain Schromberg in the James Bond film and Rose Rool. Is this blockbuster brought her international attention? And then, yeah, she's a maniac and then the last horror film. And then we have, again, we have the third person is Abigail Clayton and she is Rita, right? And she doesn't have a whole lot of film experience either. The only ones that I got, they didn't look terribly hard, but were through the licking glass in 1976. And that's a well-known adult film in which Clan starts. So she's one of the original founding porn stars and then maniac. - I did see, in order to keep costs down, they hired several porn actresses. And yeah, Abigail was one of them to play the victims and other minor female roles in the movie. - So this was back then when they had a little bit of respect, I think, and they had a little bit of acting. - With a girl? - Yeah, 'cause like porn these days, like you could pretty much tell if they put a porn star into a real movie. It's like, "Oh, they don't really act very well." But this, they blended in perfectly. (laughs) - I have no comment. Didn't we talk about the last episode too? - Yeah. Hey, this one intentionally brought the porn. - Well, that was the, we'll get into the director, but that was his background before. - No. - He was into those... Bam, wow. - Doing cool, good news. - Hey, you get your start. Our boy and horror directed scream, West Craven. He was in porn, he did porn. - He knocked it. - Not in the films, but I think he directed and he was around him. - He was in an actor? - Yeah. - And then we have, as an actor and the special effects artist, the man, the myth, the legend, Tom Savini. He plays disco boy. - And he said he did an amazing job. - Yeah, well, I thought he did pretty good, so I like him and we're gonna, down the road, we're gonna watch a lot of these films with him and, you know, "Dama the Dead," the... - He made second "Merry Makeup" or no. (laughs) - He didn't make it. He played a character, yeah. Creepshow, too. - You know, from "Destel Dawn." - Oh, apparently. - Day of the dead, he helped, creepshow. He's in a bunch. - I don't think he was in "Terrified" or three, the one that just came out. - That's fucking tight, dude. We gotta go see that. All the social people are like, "Oh my God, "Terrified" or three." Didn't you see that? Everybody's kind of rave reviews or no? - I think so. I don't know. They always, I feel like a lot of those movies are marketing, they're like, "People find it, people puked." - Oh, yeah, yeah, man. - Somebody puked. But I'll be down to watch it. - Well, that's cool. And then we have Gail Lawrence, so she is Nurse in the Park or Nurse in the Subway. - Oh, okay. - And most of her work was in adult films as well, with Maniac being one of her few forays into the mainstream cinema. I didn't really see anything else she was in. Did you? - No, I only like that the main people that I kept seeing. - Okay, and then we have Rita Montone. She's a woman in the hotel room. She's the prostitute. - Which one? - The first one. - Yeah. So, she was in another one, Blood Rage in 1979. It's a lesser known horror film. I didn't really have too much on her either. And that's really all I have for the actors. Do you have anything else? - No saying your. - Yeah, okay. Cool. And then, so I guess we can move on to the director, William Lustig. Now, this guy actually has done quite a bit that I recognize. How about you? - I saw a couple of things that he has. Mr. Lustig is from the Bronze in New York. I did see that during his teenage years, he watched a ton of trashy exploitation fare. That was kind of what he was into at the house theaters. And he worked as a theater usher in New Jersey. And after he graduated high school, he went to film classes at New York University. And he began his film career in his maid, Latines, working behind the scenes, doing some minor production here and there. And then, a handful of hardcore, ex-rated porno pictures. - So, yeah, he did a lot of porn. But, so I kind of seen the theme of his cinematic stuff, the mainstream cinema. And I kind of see where he's going with these. There be schlock whore, because we have Maniac in 1980. We have Vigilante in 1982, where the film focuses on a man who, after his family is attacked, takes justice into his own hands. And then, have you seen any of the Maniac cops? - I wanna say maybe one. - He did all three of those. So, that kind of tells you what he's about. It's kind of a film style. It's not great shit, but it's entertaining. And then, the last one I got is Uncle Sam. I know you know that one. - I haven't watched it, but you showed me your trailer. - The trailer, yeah. So, he's about that kind of stuff. It's not great, but you know what? It's entertaining, Uncle Sam's entertaining. Maniac, at least the first Maniac cop I liked. I don't know about two or three. I don't think I've really seen those ones, but. - When he was in the ARM movies, he was under an alias called Billy Bags. So, if any listeners are interested in that side of his work? - Yeah, and he you perverts. - He perverts probably know him as Billy Bags. But, it's like he names that they come up with. - It's hilarious. Funny, do you have anything else? - Yeah, that's all that I had for Mr. Lustig, Lustig Lustig. - Mm-hmm. - And then the writers, it looks like there was two writers, C.A. Rosenberg and Joe Spinnell, like you mentioned. - Mm-hmm. - I could not freaking find anything about Rosenberg. - So, I got his background. He was a lesser known writer who collaborated with Joe on Maniac, not much as publicly known about Rosenberg's career beyond, it's a her, beyond her involvement in the film as she didn't have a significant number of writing credits in the industry. Rosenberg's role in the development of Maniac was primarily in helping structure the screenplay and refine the story alongside Spinnell. Together, they crafted a narrative that blended psychological horror with the slasher formula focusing on the trauma and mental instability of that of Frank Zito. So yeah, the only notable writing work that I have is Maniac that I have for her, so. - Yeah, there isn't a lot known. - Very nice, and then you already touched on Spinnell. - His birthday was in October. Oh my God, he had my mom's birthday, October 28th. - Dude, shout out, we gotta tell Maria. - It's gonna be his birthday on Monday, or a P. Joe Spinnell. - I think we should celebrate Joe Spinnell and not your mom or-- - And he died four days before my birthday. How fucking nuts is that? - Am I hammering carnated? - Generated? - Incarnated? - Oh yeah, she's born in '89. - January 13th, 1989, that was born in '17, so four days later. - Do you really wanna be Joe Spinnell incarnated? - I hope you not notice, I swear profusely. - So do I, I think it's an Italian thing. - Um. - Kidding. - Okay, well, do we, do you have anything else on the actors you wanna talk about? - No, this dude was just appearing in films, and yeah, like his career was short-lived, 70s and 80s, and he appeared in some productions on and off Broadway, and-- - Good, good for him, dude, 'cause he wasn't the most attractive looking guy. - Oh my God, live this poor guy alone. Yeah, he had supporting roles like you mentioned already, and then primarily known for acting and co-writing maniac. - Booyah. - Booyah. - Okay, should we take a break? - Yes. - All right, we will be right. We'll be right back. (upbeat music) - Tired of your life with flocks? 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And trust us, they're all about going the extra mile to make sure you get exactly what you're looking for. - They definitely have a unique way of sourcing their hair. - Visit Zito's today for a cut that's cut above the rest, because when it comes to style, they'll go to great lengths to make sure you leave your best. - And remember, mention Ours in a mouth session for 10% off your first wig, or perhaps even a juicy scalp treatment. (laughing) (laughing) (upbeat music) - All right, we are back. Hopefully you guys enjoyed our commercial break. Angelus, thank you for participating in that. That was amazing. - You're welcome. - Man, let's get back into it, huh? All right, you got cough drop in, so I apologize if you guys can hear it. I'm gonna try to edit out the best I can. - We choose such a hater. I'm over here dying. - Just forgive me for trying to have some professionalism on here. - You guys, I got the vids, my throat hurts. I got a cough, and I wanna get into the details 'cause it's gross, but... - It's bad enough that I get the wrinkling of the paper, the crumbling of the paper, of you guys. - You want me to open them on the mic? (laughing) - No. I do a lot behind the scenes, guys, that they don't understand. So, I mean, I'm just trying. You gotta make my life a little bit easy. - Richard, we'll make your life so fucking happy, okay? - Damn, that shit means forever. - Guys, today's my last day in the pot. (laughing) - No, but I can't wait to get in our new place. You're gonna start doing the obsession bites with me. I'm excited. I'm pretty pumped for that. - My bites are gonna be in little muffins. - No, they're gonna be-- - No, but they're gonna be blueberry flavor. - Do you know what our special bites are? - Yes, but I'll make the real ones, and you can eat 'em while you talk about bites. - Oh, okay. - Oh. - Hey, before we get into our plot, do we wanna shout out real quick our winner of the contest or do we wanna do it at the end? - We can do it at the end, we end. - Okay, we knew it at the end. - I thought we did it last week. We didn't, oh no, we didn't, because it was Friday and it was ending Friday. - Oh, right. - Thanks, Assistant, for having my water. - Tip. - I'm gonna give it a drink real quick here. - Our winner of the Rob Zombie Palooza. - So we're gonna do that at the end. - Well, you're sipping on water, so we're just gonna-- - Okay, oh my God, we're gonna get a life together here. Jesus, we're in sync, guys. So, let's start this off with a bang. Let's hear your plot. I'm excited to hear, I've been waiting all week, I've been clamoring for it. The battle, didn't I win the last one? - Please don't stutter, just say it. Let's have a little bit of enjoyment. - I was pumping myself up, man. (laughing) - I'm just patiently waiting. - I wish we had it, we could record this. - We're gonna be a video podcast here soon, I'm gonna get the equipment. - Yeah, I'm richer in his mannerisms. - Maniac, the story of a man with big mommy issues. After surviving some serious fucked childhood trauma imposed by his mom, Frank finds an out to his built up anger and abandonment issues and lets it rip literally on innocent by standing woman. With serious amount of cardio, hard breathing techniques, aquamoting and one-on-one sessions with mommy dearest are witnessed as Frank stalks his victims and collects them to replicate the perfect mommy who will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever leave him. (laughing) Quiet down the voices once and for all, but can he stay focused long enough to make a good enough parent that will sing sweet angelic lullabies or while he end up in the books as just another serial killer who had one too many spankings. The end. - We're cigarettes, puttin' on on them. Good job. - Thanks. - Good job. Okay, I'm gonna start mine. - And go. - Step into the grimy streets of 1980s New York where the neon lights flicker and Frank Zito are troubled protagonists, worms in the night. Frank's not your average guy. He's got a hobby and that's a little unsettling and no, it doesn't involve collecting stamps. Haunted by his past and battling inner demons, Frank finds some creative ways to deal with his trauma. Spoiler involves mannequins. But don't be fooled. Maniac isn't just your typical slasher. It's dark, twisted, and unforgettably gripping. Frank's journey is disturbing as it is fascinating, peppered with moments that'll make you laugh nervously then wonder why you're laughing at all. There's even a touch of romance amidst the chaos. Though, let's be honest. This isn't the kind of love story you wanna imitate. So expect a blend of tension and deep dive into one seriously messed up mind. And by the end, you'll never look at mannequins the same or you'll, or a late night city stroll the same way, ever again. I said that wrong. (laughing) You'll never look at a mannequin or a late night city stroll the same way again. - Beautiful, beautiful. - I had to land on my feet, so I guess. (laughing) - I thought you always landed on your feet. Oh my god, the vids have like got me alfagi. I can't read today. - You can't believe it. - I thought it was funny. - You're done. - I thought it was funny on your phone. I thought it was dyslexic because I'm just Spanish on your phone, I'm like, whoa, I can't read this. What is going on here? - What? - This morning, I'm like, I'm fucking dyslexic, dude. The words are jumbled up. - You're like, you can't do this to me. (laughing) - What was I showing you? - I can't remember. Also, by the way, I'm sidetracked. I hope you guys like our plots. Do we want to discuss last night? So, a long time listeners, you know I've had the story. I have dreams. I'm a vivid dreamer. (laughing) Most, mostly their nightmares and their night tears. So I've always had them as a kid. Even I'm 35 and I still have them. Not as much, obviously, but they still do happen. And I'm a vivid dreamer and I will talk in my sleep and sometimes sleepwalk. - I believe in that. - I want your point of view on this. What happened? (laughing) - That was fucking trippy. You talked about it before, but I had never experienced your vivid dreams. So yesterday, Richard came over. We went in, we got takeout and we just sat at the house. - You weren't feeling good and we decided to watch, we have it a movie night. We watched The Nun and The Nun 2. - Yeah, we watched both of them back to back. So I fell asleep at the end of Nun 2 'cause I was just so tired. And then I woke up by myself and you and me and I were gone and off to bed and I was like, "Okay, it's bedtime." - Well, every time I ask you, it's bedtime, you're like, "You go later." (laughing) - I don't know why I get so cranky. - And then you're like, "You go later and I'll be in later." - Well, people wake me up. - I say good day. - When I fall asleep on the couch, it doesn't let me sleep. But last night was feeling sick. So I was like, "Oh my God, I'm alone." (laughing) But I went to bed. I don't know what time it was. So there's fucking movies. I kept having dreams all night about The Nun. I just kept seeing shadows in my dream on and off. And I kept waking up and woke up several times and I was like, "Oh my God, is there a shadow in the room?" And I would go back to sleep at one point. Richard Walker scared the shit out of me. (laughing) I'm gonna sleep. You know what I'm saying? You just grabbed my arm so hard and you were like, "Oh my God, what is that?" And you sat up a little bit and I thought I was like, "Holy crap, he's seeing it too." (laughing) And you're just like, "What is the staring at the fucking wall?" And I was like, "What are you talking about?" - And I'm convincing when I'm dreaming. - Yes. (laughing) And I was like, "Oh shit, well, at least I'm not alone "in here with The Nun." And you were like, "What is that? "What is that?" And I'm like, "What are you seeing?" And you're like, "I don't know, man. "At least it'll have to get through two people "before I get to me. "You motherfuckers are crazy. "You're rolled over and you were back to sleep." And I was like, "What? "It's gonna kill me first before I get to you. (laughing) "How you doing, baby?" - Shit, my God, next time you gotta just play it into it because being of Mexican-- - I was like my great protector. He's throwing me first at the fucking-- - Being Latina, you guys typically are very spiritually but like Richard, that's the devil. I've seen him too. (laughing) I would've been, "Ah, hell no!" - You scared me for a second. - So in that-- - Dreamy. - I do remember the last part of that saying, "Motherfuckers are crazy." Because-- - I thought you were talking about me in Vienna. I was like, "We didn't do anything." - Because when I wake up, I can kind of wake up when I know I'm dreaming because it's intense at first try. I'm like, "Oh fuck." But then I'm slowly halfway awake and then I can realize I catch myself now as an adult. Like, "Richard, you're fucking dreaming." But I'm still lucid. So I'll fucking still be in the dream state but I'll be conscious enough I can go back to sleep. But that being said, that's fucking hilarious because I do remember the tail end of that. - I was just like, already like on high alert 'cause I myself was having dreams on it now. - I don't even know why it's not even that intense, the none. - No, and then-- - It's fucking creepy, dude. - After you were a lover and you're like, "Motherfuckers are crazy." I was like, "Me and Vienna? "We're the only people here who didn't do anything?" And then I just kept mapping after you like rolled over and passed out again. I was like, "It has to get through too." I was like, "There's just one of me in the room. "Who's the other person?" (laughs) Like, that was your fucking, that gave you a piece of mine for some reason. It has to get through two people before it gets to you. So you're good. Because the dream was winding down, I caught myself. I'm like, "Oh, so I went back to sleep." I'm like, "Dude, you're dreaming." - But you didn't fucking acknowledge that you scared the shit out of me. (laughs) You're like, "Oh, good luck falling back asleep, Angela." I did. I stayed awake for a bit. I was like, "Oh, no." - That's hilarious. You motherfuckers are crazy. That's gonna be a line in my next movie. Gory Rory, you should write that into that. - Under your next movie, be a whole area. (laughs) - It has to get to two people. - Oh, fuck, you motherfuckers are crazy. - Fine, now I'm gonna fucking put you up as an offering, then. - You threw in me and threw the horse. - I'm too sweet. All right, let's get back to it. Do we wanna start diving into that scene for a scene? (singing in foreign language) - Okay. So this movie, this movie, it goes into around a campfire. It's on a beach. The fire goes out, and one character suggests finding wood. It's a couple. They're kinda in there, you know. They're not clicking hills. They're not getting boots. But after post-coitus, they, the lady, like she starts nagging him about getting firewood. Obviously post-coitus men get tired. He wanted to sleep, totally get it. But then his naggy-ass girlfriend made him get up and go get firewood. - She said, "Bitch, make me warm." - Yep, go get that driftwood, beige. So he does. And at this time, we don't know it's Frank yet, but he walks up a mysterious figure, comes up, and then he grabs her by the hair, right? And then just slices her throat, which is pretty intense, right off the bat. And then the guy comes back, he drops the firewood, and then Frank strangles him with a wire it looks like. - It looks like a cut-through. - Yeah, and it was cutting through him, it was sharp, and ends up killing him. Dude, right off the bat lifts him off the ground. So he has that psycho strength. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - So that starts it, right? - Mm-hmm. - And then does it cut to maniac? Like the title, or does it go to his house? Like he wakes up. Is that what happens? - I think he goes to the title, and then he wakes up. - He wakes up screaming, right? - Yeah, with a really fucking creepy mannequin laying next to him. - And you're not, you're confused. You're like, okay, obviously this is setting the tone for like a guy with some problems, but you don't know what's going on exactly. Like, what were you thinking in that moment? - I was very confused. I was like, what kind of freaky sex fucking kings does this guy have sleeping with mannequins? - I know, and I never got the fetish with mannequins, 'cause they're just really supersized Barbies. There's nothing there. It's flat. - It's not flat, they have boobs. - That, but there's nothing, you can't do anything with it. - You just cuddle with a hard cold. - It's a little plastic. - It's weird. It's fucking weird, man. - Why you not have blow-up dolls? - Huh. - You're welcome. - Weird, weird, weird, weird, weird. - Yeah, but then once the cameras are spinning around the room, you start getting a weird, 'cause the room looks depressing, to be honest. - Oh, it's gross. - There's fucking-- - It's a one bedroom. It's not even one bedroom. It's just a one, like-- - Studio? - Yeah, you call it a studio, but it's super small. It's bed, slash living room, slash kitchen. - And there's candles everywhere. - Yeah. - And then you see there's like a picture on the wall with a bunch of candles around, and you pointed out that it was a shrine of his mom. - Yeah, it looks like a shrine to his mom, and it's such a flattering picture of his mom. Like, she has a cigarette in her mouth, and she's like, "Got the fuck you." Kind of look. - Perfect money. - And he wakes up, he's sweating, and the mannequin's next, what, he starts talking to himself, doesn't he? - He mumbles a lot through this movie to himself, so you don't know if he's like, just having an inner dialogue, or like, if that's actually saying something, or what the hell, but they give you a little bit of background on him when he's getting dressed. He has like, they purposely show you his chest, and he has all these scars on his chest, and then he has dolls. That's the other thing that was creepy about this bedroom, is he has like baby dolls, different types of dolls, just all over his studio. - He can't use two or whatever drawings on dolls. - Yeah, and it's like, what kind of person has dolls? An adult male closer to the later stages of life, with all that stuff. - So really creepy, and then he leaves his room. - And he has a creepy-ass mustache, dude, oh. - Is it? - Yeah, it's a mustache. - Well, no, he didn't know it was creepy. - Creepy to me, man. - Okay. - He looked like Mario, but he was like a sex-pervert Mario. (laughing) So now he gets ready again, he starts putting clothes on, and he's getting his gear on what you're gonna start realizing, that's his like, serial killer, that's his hunting outfit. He puts that on, it's his bomber jacket. - Oh, yeah. - You know, his pants, his casual shoes, and then is what he calls snow cap. - I don't know. - I don't know, this is cap. - Oh, okay. - It's like a snow, what do you call those? Not a ski cap, but a beanie. - A beanie? - Is that what it is? - That's what I would call it. - Okay. - A winter hat. - So he's walking, yeah, he walks out, he kinda sees up the bottom of this complex, it looks like, but he's walking down the street, it looks like downtown New York, and he's walking by this building, and then we come across two prostitutes, right? - Mm-hmm. - Two women of the night. And they're talking about their days, and the prostitute that he ends up picking up, she's like, man, I just need one more trick, I've gotta get to pay my rent. And they're talking about tears of pay, right? - Yeah, and he's like, it's interesting how cheap sex was at the time. (laughs) - Yeah, that was insane. - They started off at $50, and I was like, oh my God, $50. - Well, do you know what the going rate is now? - I don't know, but I'd imagine that $50. $50 seems like really cheap to have sex with a stranger. - Yeah. - You're putting your life around risk. - Well, I think $50 was hand stuff. - Yeah, I don't know. - The ultimate, though, was what, $100. - $75 to take him around the world, and the other prostitute was like, honey, honey, the ultimate, and she's like, oh yeah, 100, the ultimate. What does that mean? - I don't know, that's weird. - But he likes the ultimate, he takes it. - Yeah, maybe that's ATM, I don't know. (laughs) - It has to mount. - But stuff. - Yeah, but stuff, dude. - And he's like, I don't know what he does. He has all this money, too. So he wants the ultimate, and they go to the hotel, which also, really fucking cheap rates for a hotel room, $25. - Yeah. - And if you want a color TV, $5, $4. I was like, oh damn. - Yeah, which he, he's like, I got the money. - Yeah. - So then they get up into the motel room, and they start the interaction where she's on the other side of the wall, and she's basically saying, hey, money needs to be on the nightstand, and he's like, don't worry, I got a lot of money, but he obliges, and, but he's still showing a little emotion, and then the tension builds as the client becomes increasingly uncomfortable and agitated, but before he does, it's building up, but at first, he's like, dance for me or pose, like, or he asks if she's a model. - Yeah, she's a model, yeah. - And she's like, yeah, of course. (laughs) - And he's like, well, show me, like, in the magazines. So she starts doing these weird poses. - I know, she ends up in pose with her arm arch around her head. - Yeah. - And the other one in front, and she's like, he means like this. - And then she squats like a catcher, a baseball catcher, am I kidding? - And then puts her arm up again, like this. - Yeah, and he's like, yeah, he's like, that's perfect. 'Cause I think his mom was a model, or he thought she was. - No, no, no, no, I'm telling you, he's looking for the perfect mommy. - No, he's looking for his mom, because that's the whole thing is, these women are-- - He thinks they're his-- - Yeah, he tries to, like, he makes a reference later that like, hey, I know that's you, mom. You just, you might look different, but it's you. - Yeah, she's never fucking come back. - Yeah, so apparently not. So I think that's what happened, is he has a psychological break, and he really turns that into his mom, so he likes to torture him. - How did he kill his-- - But anyway, she starts doing it, and then jumps on top of him, and he's like, oh yeah, perfect. And then they start making out, right? And then they're rolling over, you top each other, and he's like, no, keep your clothes on. And she's like, ooh, I've never done one, like, clothes on, you're so perfect. And they start doing it, and then, all of a sudden, he rolls back over on her, and she's like, oh yeah, you're so good, you're so good. All of a sudden, he switches, and you can see it in him, because then he starts moaning. He's like, ugh, growling at her, and then he's choking her, and she's like, stop, what are you doing, what are you doing? And he just keeps choking her, and it takes a little bit, and they're having a conversation in between that, and-- - Like, bitch, why didn't you stop me? Like, I don't know if he's telling me his mom. - Well, no, that's after, so he ends up choking her to death, right? - I have a question. - And she's laying there, he gets off, though, and then he acts like he's sick, like, he's revolted that he did this. And he's like, why didn't you stop me? Why didn't you let me do that? - Blah, blah, blah. - And he goes and pukes into the toilet or the sink. - I have a question during the choking scene. - True. - There was two actresses in this scene. - Yes, his mom, so it's supposed to, that was what's kind of showing you that he's seeing his mom in this scene. - And the actual prostitute. - Yeah, like, it was going back and forth. - Okay. - So he was, it was trying to show you that, hey man, he's thinking these ladies, his mom, he's taking a lot of this out on them. - They didn't do this for all of them. I feel like it was more visible for this one. - And they should have done more. - They should have applied that to all of the killings, but they didn't. - Because to me, it looked like maybe this movie was really low budget and like something happened to the actress and so they had to remake, read shot and they couldn't bring, that's what I was thinking the first time I was like, oh, something must have happened to the other girl that they had to bring someone else in and retake some shot. - No, no, that was supposed to be his mom and that was on purpose, but they didn't do that the rest of the movie, which I thought was an odd choice. I figured that was gonna happen throughout. - It would have been, it made a more sense. - The only reason I knew it though was because you've seen the picture in his apartment. - Oh, it was like a girl? - Yeah, it was the same. I'm like, oh, okay, that makes sense. And when he's like, "Mommy." But now, so he does that and then we pretty much see him walk out with what looks like a big present, but it, or no, we watch him going back to his apartment, right? - No, we see him before he leaves that hotel. - Oh, yeah. - The most important part of the fucking movie. - He grabs the fucking her head and I thought this was a pretty cool effect. And when he cuts the forehead, slices that and then you see him pull the scout back. I thought that was fucking gnarly, dude. Even for 1980, that was a pretty good effect. - Oh. - It was pretty realistic looking. - I was gross. - I know, that was gnarly. But then we do see him coming back. And one of his neighbors is like, "Frank, is that a really Christmas gift?" He's like, "Yep, yep." And walks in and it's this big thing. I thought it was like a Christmas tree or something, but he opens it and it's a goddamn mannequin. - Yeah, and then he has this one mannequin, the one that was laying in his bed. And he puts it in the corner. He's like, "Did you miss me talking to her?" So he thinks the mannequin is his mom. - And he's like, "You're gonna like it here." - Yeah, he's like, and he keeps like, snapping at all these mannequins about going out like it's his mom. - So this is confusing now, because this is where now does he think it's the lady he killed, but no longer is mom because now he has multiple mannequins and he's talking to them like they're different than his mom. - So he takes the clothes from the woman he kills and the gowns. - But his mom's in like the background when he's talking. So this is the confusing part. And maybe this adds to why he's so crazy and a maniac because now he doesn't make sense. At first, it's ritualistic towards his mom, but then he's talking to his mom as he's doing all this work and he's talking these mannequins as if they were the women he just killed. - Yeah. - That's the vibe I got. - This is where I was like, there's like a lot going. I thought he was talking to them like they were his mom, but at times he would do a high pitch voice and he was like, you can tell he was pretending to be his mom talking. - Yeah. - And sometimes it was like supposed to be an inner monologue that he was having with his mom. So this confused us to when he was voicing it out loud and when it was happening in his head. When you weren't, 'cause a lot of this movie is from his point of view. - Yeah. - So you can't really see if he's actually like talking or if it's in his head. - It's weird, yeah. But so then he pulls the other mannequin out and he does have the clothes from the lady just killed and from the previous lady he killed, you assume there's clothes on from that person. But then he pulls out a Ziploc baggie and it is the scalp that he just took and he starts stapling it onto the mannequin. - Yeah. So the vibe I catch is every woman he kills he brings a new mannequin. He puts the hair on them and dresses them, right? - Yeah. - Okay. He's like, "You're gonna like it, or I guarantee it." - You're gonna have so many friends just so you wait. - And she's laying there. And so that mannequin though, did he put hands on it because it was just nubs at that point? - Um, it was a show I'm putting hands on. - Does she eventually? 'Cause then she has the handcuffs on, right? - Yeah, they all do at one point, happy hands. - Gotcha. - Especially at the end. - Mm-hmm. - But then we see him, he has like, he puts bullets in a guitar case, so he's preparing another kill pack. - Rapid, dude, so is this the same night? - Yeah. - So he's already going out, and yeah, he packs a gun into a guitar case, and then with a big ass knife, like you were saying, and he's now in a car. You see him in his, it was like a Lincoln or something. One of those old boats, pretty much. And he's driving around, and he's just kind of hunting. So then he stops, and you see, he's parked, and you see a couple get their car from a, what do you call that, a valet? - Yeah, yeah. - And they hop in, it's a guy and a girl, it's Tom Savini, and the girlfriend. So, they get in the car, and she's like, oh, you gotta take me home, my boyfriend's gonna wonder where I'm at. - Yeah, and he's like, but look at the night, it's so beautiful, let's look at that moon, and they pull over and talk, like you would back in the day. And you get a feeling that Frank is following them, 'cause you hear that grunting and the moaning coming. - Yeah, so this is a sign. One, he's wearing his serial killer outfit. Two, whenever he's around something, he's about to kill. He's always like, and do yours. (grunting) (laughing) But he's doing it, he's like being weird, and grunting and moaning, and just getting a half chub. - I love if you guys get a chance on the movies on Tubi right now, with the captions. - Yeah, please watch it, or shutter, it's on shutter at least. - It's on shutter too. The captions will be like, awkward moaning. - Yeah, awkward moaning. (laughing) And it grunting. (laughing) (grunting) - Okay. (laughing) - Yeah, so, and then they decide that she's not in a rush to get back to her boyfriend, and they're gonna make out in the back of the scene. - Well, so they go and find a secluded spot off the road, and it's right underneath the Brooklyn Bridge. So, they're in the front seat, they're talking. Tom Savini's character, he's sitting there. He's pretty much playing a cool, she's talking, and he's not interested, he's just staring forward. And he's like, "You know what? Do you wanna go somewhere with me?" She's like, "Yeah, where?" To the back seat. And she's like, "I would love to." - She said, "I'm Tom Savini, boot." - And then, so they get in the back seat, they start fooling around, you know, just go, "Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh." So, they're doing that, they're romancing, and all of a sudden, Tom Savini's on top of her, and she's looking out, and she sees Frank. - She sees, yeah, Frank, just frantically, you know. - Watching them, like a creep. - Yeah, through the mirror, and then they jump up, she's like, "I'm done, there's someone out there." And Tom Savini's like, "I don't know, man, I don't know what you're talking about." So, he gets out of the car, gets in, he's like, "There's nobody out here." And then he's like, "All right, I'll take you home." Turns his car on, the headlights on, he still doesn't see her, the girl screams, because Frank's out there, and it's like foggy a little bit. - Look, it's really foggy. I think they're really setting up the scene. - Yeah, and then it clears, and Tom Savini sees him, and all of a sudden, Frank quickly jumps onto the hood. It does a slow motion with the gun, and he's on his knee, and on the hood, and he shoots Tom Savini in the head. His head explodes like you wouldn't, a shotgun blast. This scene was fucking awesome. I'm like, "Whoa, I was all about it." I'm like, "This fucking scene rocked." I had to rewind it twice, and just all around appreciation. How'd you feel about it? It's iconic. - It was pretty good. I do have some behind little cool facts about this scene. So, the dummy had been used for the exploding scene, extensively by Tom, specifically in "Dawn of the Dead." So, after the use in this film, it was so saturated in fake blood and gore that it was decided to retire, and Tom had named the dummy at Boris, and it was locked in the trunk of the car used in the shotgun scene and sunk in the East River, but the actual, so the head, let me find my thing right here that I had. Where is it? So, for the male victim here in this scene, he had already made a cast of his own head, and he filled it. - Yeah, Tom Savini. - Yeah, and he filled it with leftover food and fake blood. So, that's what everything came up, and actually used a real fucking gun for this scene, and this was one of the scenes where they didn't have permits, so it had to be shot in under an hour, gun thrown into a car in one of someone that was helping, like, job a different, like, get away car essentially with the real gun, in case the police came over because of him shooting out there. - That's wild, but man, that is so effective that, even today's standards, they can't shoot something like that because it is too graphic. Like, even, like, in 2024, I feel like that's really graphic. Like, it's up there. - Yeah, it wasn't an explosion and gritty and gutty. - Yeah, it was realistic. Like, I don't know, if you've ever seen something explode from a gunshot, I've never seen a human head explode, but it's graphic and it's disturbing. - Some of the, I want to know who did the effects for the pre-made, 'cause some of the scenes on there, too, they're pretty-- - Pretty intense. - Pretty, too. - If I can love it, I can watch it. - Like the end of the scene? Oh, epic. - When he's getting torn apart-- - Yes. - Oh, spoiler, he gets torn apart. (laughs) Or does he? - At least go watch the end. - Or does he? - Yeah. - So, yeah, now he ends up shooting Tom and now the girl's in the backseat. She's screaming, she's, like, on the ground and, like, in a fetal position. Now, instead of taking her scalp, he just uses the gun and fuckin' does the same thing and blows her head off, but you don't see that one. I think would've been cool if he got two of those scenes. - Yeah. - But, understandably so, but ends up killing them. He goes back to his apartment, right? - Mm-hmm. - And now he's talking to the dolls, he's talking to his mom. Basically, he's saying, "I gotta lay low, I can't do this. He's watching the TV." - They're talking about the dead people-- - The gruesome killings, he has a newspaper that is saying about the killings. So, he's basically saying, "I can't go out anymore. I have to lay low for a while." - He even handcuffs himself to the mannequin. - Which is, I don't understand that part either. - He's like, "You're mine now, and I'm in." And he just, like, starts crying. He's so happy. He was doing this thing where it gives me, like, it's weird, like, you wanna feel bad for him, but he's just, like, rocking himself in the bed, like, trying to comfort himself. - He's clearly unhinged, too. - Yeah, so now we go to the park scene. You see, there's a, I'm assuming, what's the park out there? In the York Central Park? - Yeah, he's at Central Park. During the day, this is the first time you're seeing daytime. - Yeah, there's a bunch of people. There's some kids riding around taking bikes. - He's got his killer outfit on. - Mm-hmm, and there's a photographer who's taking pictures of everything out in the park. - Yeah, and this is Anna, right? - Yeah, and through the lens, she seems frank, talking to a kid, so I'm like, wait, is he coming after kids though? - So this is intense. This scene builds up where the two parents of the two kids, they're playing, and then the parents are talking, right? And then they're like, you gotta stay here, and then the kids are like, now we're gonna go ride our bikes. The parents are paying attention. It looks like he's gonna kidnap this girl. - Yeah. - And this was intense. I'm like, oh fuck, is he gonna, like, get children now? - Yeah. - And he does run, like, the girl runs into him, and he grabs the handlebars. Watch, what a fucking crew, dude, what a weirdo. But he's, like, staring at her, but I think he is gonna do something, but he notices across the way that Anna's taking a picture. - Yeah, 'cause he sees her, it looks directly at her, and sees that she's taking pictures, and he lets go, yeah. - Yeah. - And then, for some reason, like, you pointed out, Anna's out here taking pictures, and she left her bag on the floor. - And I'm sorry, I mean, I get it in some places you could do that, but she leaves that bag with expensive stuff in her address on there, behind a tree. - In your own mattress? - It's not hidden very well. But so, Frank ends up walking towards the area, and he notices that he goes and acts like he's tying a shoe, and he gets her address off it, her name and address, and phone number. - Everything you need to know. - Yeah. Well, she's off doing that. - And then, now we go to the hospital. - Oh, at the hospital scene. So, we see two young ladies leaving after a shift. What I assume, I think they say it's a double shift, right? - Yeah. - Yeah, they work long hours. They're talking and-- - They're talking about the murders and the killing. - Yeah, and all the psycho running around. - Yeah. - So, this doesn't make sense for the movie. But then, so, one of the girls, her boyfriend picks her up, and she's like, "Hey, are you sure you don't wanna ride?" And she's like, "No, I'll wait here." And then, a second later is like, "You know what? "I'm actually gonna walk." And with all the psycho and just talking about that-- - Why would you stay behind by yourself? - It, I don't know, I don't understand. - I would have been like, "No, you have a ride? "Please take me home." - Yeah, please. There's a fucking maniac running around. - So, she starts walking home, and then you hear the moaning in the grunting. So, Frank's around in the area, watching. - Ripping in a taren. - And she gets into the subway. And all you hear is like, "Ah, ah, ah." And she can sense, I think that she has a sense that someone's following him. It doesn't really show that he's talking. - Well, have you ever had that uneasy feeling like someone's watching you? Because, like, I've had that, like, whoa, I've had that weird sixth sense, that like, "Hey, something's all right here. "I feel like someone's following." - I think yours was real, though. - Wow, I did have a stalker. Jesus Christ, that's not funny, and I don't condone junking about it, okay? (laughing) - I'm kidding. - That was hilarious. - My apology. It wasn't just a sixth sense, but I don't know. - Oh, fuck, oh, I love it. - Well, she's, like, rushing through gates and trying to get to her train. I'm assuming, and then she gets, she finally gets to the train, and it's fucking close. And I thought that there was, 'cause, like, at first there's, like, back and forth. You don't see anyone. - Yeah. - And I thought the train was just closed for the night, and she's banging on it, and then it starts moving. And I was like, "Oh, she's a clammy, let me in." Now, you can tell this is guerrilla filmmaking, like, guerrilla filming, because, one minute, it's empty, and then all of a sudden, you see people in the background, and then it's empty again. - It finds this feeling, 'cause it's really dark. They try to make him really dark to those people there. And they do a good job, and that's nitpicking. I understand being the budget they were on, but it's just hilarious when I see stuff like that. I'm like, "Oh, shit." - Yeah, so she turns, and she actually sees Frank climbing down the stairs. And, again, I don't know if she had already seen him following her, but she sees him, and she's battled. - Well, she sees him because she runs down the stairs and tries to get on the subway, on the train, and she can't, she's screaming. So she looks back, and then it does a slow motion. You see his feet, and you see him walking down there. So she ends up running, and she runs back up another terminal, like, up the stairs. And she's trying to leave, and everything's locked, which, when this be a fire hazard-- - Yeah, I feel like it would have been. - Like, and everything's locked, she can't get out. But, she frantically is looking, she sees a door, and it's a bathroom. She ends up getting in there, and goes into the last stall. And she's in there, trying really, really hard to stay quiet, as Frank is checking each stall. - And this is nerve-wracking, like, for me, I'm like, bitch, just be quiet, and she's breathing really hard. But, imagine being in that situation, I even felt a little bit of anxiety with this, where she's, like, breathing hard, and she's trying to be quiet. And you hear him come in, because, at first, he is looking around, he thinks she escaped, and he's like, fuck, and just about to give up, and then he looks over and sees that door. And he goes in, and he starts slowly walking each stall, right? Like, you were saying? - Yeah. - And then, he's playing with her, because he's like, ah, I got you, and she's in the last stall. Well, he acts like he leaves, and does leave the room. - Yeah. - So, then, she gets out, and she takes a, in the stall, she realizes he left, she's alone. So, she lets a huge, like, exhale out, she's like, oh, and starts kind of laughing. She's like, oh, fuck, that was crazy. She walks out, right, and walks to the mirror in the bathroom, and she's still just kind of unwinding, like, what just happened, I'm packing in. - Racing up her face. - Yeah, and then she puts her head down into the sink, and is washing her face up, then she looks up, and then behind her is Frank, right? And he takes a big bayonet, what kind of knife do you call that? - I don't know, a killer knife. - Yeah, but it's huge, and he shelves it in her, and I thought this was, like, pretty good, because he ends up getting that through her, and it shows it going through her. I thought that was pretty good. - That was weirdo, he's like, do you like it? - That's what you like, you like it, don't ya? - Yeah, and he rents himself his knife. Very good, very good, keeping it clean. - Which I don't understand, is he gonna use that to scalp her? - It didn't show scalp in her, right? - But he does take the hair, because he does get back now, so he does scalp her, because he's like, oh, I know, I know your hair's-- - You know, there's what he's like, now, now, now, is just a little blood, like, what you did, you're being messy, you get in blood on yourself, like, on the hair. - Right. - And he's like, why will people say, why will people say? I was like, oh my God, this man is goin' crazy. - Yeah, exactly. - And yeah, he puts the nurses uniform on one of the mannequins, and the scalp. And this time he takes a tack, and hammers it into the head. - Yeah, very fucking painful, it looks like. - Yeah, so now, this is where now he separates her from his mom, and that victim, essentially, I don't think I got mom vibes out of that one, because he is, he's like, you like that, you like that, he's talkin' like he, like, this is a different person entirely. - No, he's mama. - Yeah, exactly, and then he's talking to her there, and not like his mom, and his mom's in the background, and he's talkin' to her, right? - I think, yeah. - That's what the weird part just doesn't-- - Not consistent. - Yeah, no consistency to the psychoness. - Which one is the he just likey-likeies, and which ones are the mommy ones? - Yeah, he picks and chooses. This movie picks and chooses, it takes liberties. - And then now we go back to Anna's house, the photographer, she's developing pictures, and you get a doorbell. And the first time I watched it, I missed where he found her suitcase for back, and I was like, how the fuck does he know what she lives? But, again, different, I don't know. So, this was the 80s, people were a lot more friendly with people coming up to your house and letting them in, at the same time. - I don't know. - I feel like there was a lot. - She had a company, she had a business going, so this made it a little more easier and understandable. - I don't know. - 'Cause she's a photographer. - I feel like at that time, there was a lot more talk of like, serial killers being active that people knew about. - Yeah, but if you have a business, and he starts talking, he's like, hey, I have a business too, you do photography. But, okay, so he just shows up and he's like, hey, I saw you at the park and you took a picture of me, can I see it? And she's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, come on in. I would have been like, wait right here. - How did you know, how did you find me? - Yeah, how did you know, yeah, 'cause I don't know unless she was passing out business cards, how did he know that it was her in specific that took his picture? - Or if she was well known, I don't know. - But yeah, and she, yeah, and then he starts looking around her apartment and notices that she has pictures of women all around, and this catches his attention. - And you start typing in how he's thinking, because he asks, he's like, well, why don't you take picture of men? She's like, oh, I'm just, it's about women, like the creativity sparks in me or whatever. And he starts making comments, and he's like, well, I mean, is it a way to capture them forever? So you tap into his head because he's mannequins now, you realize he's, 'cause he makes the comments, you're gonna be with me forever now, I'm taking you forever. So taking the scalp and putting that on the mannequin is him, is a symbol for him that he has you now. He you are his, and he's trying to correlate that with her and her pictures, and she's like, no, you don't keep them forever, that's not how that works. You still, like, they still transition into something else. - Yeah, and she's trying to explain that you can't preserve someone forever, and he offers that he's a painter for a living, and so yeah, that's where you were like, oh, so he thinks he's mannequins or art. - Exactly. - And yeah, that's his way of preserving this woman, 'cause he makes it common. - She can relive it over and over again by looking at that mannequin. - 'Cause he makes a comment about her picture, you can take a picture of someone now, but eventually they're gonna get older and they're not gonna be the same person. - Like this old lady, for instance, she was a sister at one point, mom, whatever, a cousin, but in this picture, she's forever this. - Yeah, and she's like, oh, you know, I would love to see her work sometime, and then they start getting into-- - She's being nice, I don't get a vibe that she's creeped out at all. - No, and they get into this Florida vibe where he's like, asks if she's hungry or something like that, or she asks if he is, and he's like, are you inviting me on a date? And he invites her to eat, and she's like, give me five minutes to get ready. She does this twice, I was like, what the hell gets ready in five minutes? But apparently she does. - I mean, she was already somewhere ready, but yeah, he's like, do you wanna go out? And then he's like, do you like Italian? Do you wanna go to a casino? - Yeah, you wanna eat some clams. - Yeah, you wanna eat some clams over here in Brooklyn? But-- - He takes her to casino. - Yeah, he gets there, and then this is another weird part. He's like, you know what? You're as beautiful as my mother. - Yeah. - I was like, what the fuck? And that's not a, that's a weird compliment. - It is. - Like, what if I was like, Angelus? You know what, when we first went on our first date, you know what, you're beautiful. You're as beautiful as my mom. - You're like, this man has mummy issues. - Fuck dude, like, that's weird. I know the old saying, like, you date your mom, or you date your dad kind of thing, but you're taking it at a whole new level when you now start, like, acknowledging it yourself and be like, yo, you're as hot as my mom. - Yeah, 'cause that, there's a line, like, you love your parents for, like, they're your protectors or your guardians. They raised you as a parental figure. But when you're going on a date, you're not going to look to date or go hang out with someone who's in a parental role. You're looking for someone as a partner, you know, as a like partner on my real date. - They can remind you of your mom a little bit, but why bring that up? - That's weird. - I don't know. For me, I'd be weird out if it's Angeles. You were like, one, I'm not Mexican, but if you're like, you remind me of perfect on my dad. I'm like, whoa, what the hell? No bueno, I'ma tell you. (laughing) - You know that mustache? (laughing) - Fuck dude. - I love your blushing. - That's hilarious. - Girl. - 'Cause of my mom has hair, you have hair. - Oh my goodness. - The most beautiful woman since my mother. So you sexualize your mother. - And she's like, oh, I would have loved to meet her. - Oh, no, he does say she died when she was really young. When he was young. - Yeah, oh yeah. - So did he kill her? - I don't know. - I accidentally? - No, I don't think he did. But he pulls out a picture of her and she's like, oh, she is very beautiful. And then the one thing that's funny is she agreed to come out this day with him and hang out and then all of a sudden now she has to leave because she has to go back to work. - Yeah. - And he's like, oh. - Typical excuse. - So we get to see you again and she actually does agree to see him again. - Yeah. - And so they, they piece out. And then we see Anna's, dude, you am assuming? - Mm-hmm. - She's doing a photo session. - ♪ We're going to the showdown ♪ - That fucking song is gnarly, dude. You can tell that's a stock song. - You love it. - How does it go? Can you sing it? - I don't remember it. ♪ Going to the showdown ♪ (laughing) - It's stupid. And how do you get in the vibe of trying to take, I don't know, it threw the vibe off her name. - ♪ Because you're going to the showdown ♪ - Showdown. (laughing) - I don't know, I thought that was silly, but anyways, they're posing, there's three porn stars imposing in the pictures. And she's taking pictures, Anna's taking pictures, he shows up with a gift, right, Frank? - Yeah, but before this, the art director, he shows up and he tells them they're doing too much with the makeup. - Oh yeah, it's all wrong, it's all wrong here. The necklace on the thing, it's too bright, it's all wrong. - Yeah, so the necklace plays an important role 'cause he tells one of the models to take off the necklace, he shouldn't be on the photos. And then Anna turns around and she notices Frank right there and he has a present for her and-- - And it's weird too, you're a middle-aged man, she's clearly in her 20s and you're like 40, 45, I don't know. It looks a little inappropriate, in my opinion. But anyways, he shows up with a gift, she opens it and what is, I thought the gift was weird. - It's a honey bear, a bear? - Yeah, it's fucking weird. - Why, it's a stuffed animal. - A 45-year-old man giving the 20-year-old girl. - I don't think he was supposed to be 45, I think he maybe he just did an age very well. I thought she was in her 30s. - I know, I thought she was in her 20s. - Mm, I thought she looked in her 30s. - Yeah, but he looked. - She just had a lot more hair and makeup and she was fucking married to a producer, come on Richard, different money. - I don't know, that's not the vibe I got, I thought that was a huge gap in age. - But she's excited for her present and it's funny because as a form of gratitude, I thought it was funny, and she kissed him on the cheek and he wipes off the kiss, like he's uncomfortable. - So, and then they go back to, she's like, I gotta go back to work. - Yeah. - You can say as long as you're white. And then he's watching it and he's like (sighs) like he's gonna like start like. - Jerk, you know? - Yeah, beating his meat, dude. - And then he notices that model that took off that necklace. - He gets up and grabs that and he-- - He takes it. So one thing about the guy that played the-- - How did he find out where she lived? Did he stalk her? - Oh, the studio? - You think he stalked her? - Wait, the studio? - Where she lived? - The model. You're skipping too far ahead. - But how, like he ends up going-- - I think he followed her. - Okay, he stalked her, okay. So the guy here that played the art director and the studio, he was a real professional photographer who released the studio to be used to film with Frank and the models. He's only request in order for him to listen. The studio was to appear in the film as Anne is our director in a cameo appearance. So they're doing all this like-- - Well, they're trying to do it on a budget. - Yes, they're doing these trade-offs. Yeah, like, sure, yeah, I can let you use this. I wanna be in the movie too. - Yeah. - So yeah, so I'm assuming he stalked her 'cause I think you do see her leave at one point, right? Or at least arrive at her apartment and he's watching her. - Yeah. - So she gets home and she starts, she runs the shower. - Well, she starts unwinding, she's going around the house, takes her clothes off and gets like a robe on, doesn't she? - Yeah, and she hears a doorbell. - Exactly. - And she goes to check who it is and she answers the door and it's him and he's like, "Oh, hey, you're Anne's friend." - And she's like, "What the fuck, yeah?" - She's like, "I found your necklace." And she's like, "Oh my God, I didn't realize that I lost it." - Well, that, she then lets her guard down a little bit because she's keeping the door kind of so much shut. But all of a sudden she opens it up a little bit more. She's like, "Oh, you got my necklace, cool, thank you." - Right, he's like right on the door frame too. - And then I'm not quite sure, obviously he's filling out what the lock is or the door hinge thing, but he feels that, so is he blocking that with something? - I think he unlocked it, didn't he? - Is that how it worked? It was probably an older style or something? - Yeah, something like that. I think he went around the back and then like, she wouldn't notice that it was locked or not. - Oh, maybe. - And so that's how we get in. - 'Cause she does shut the door and she doesn't do the deadbolt. - Yeah, 'cause yeah, I'm thinking like, she thought it was locked or something. Ah, got you. - Yeah. - That's why you need a Vienna round. She does both locks. - I double check it. - But yeah, so then the door shuts. He stays away, obviously. Then she goes in, she did draw the bath and now she starts getting in there and there's a lot of bubbles going on. She hops in and she's playing around in it. This scene takes way entirely too long, I feel like. We watch her in the bath, just sitting there. It's too long. - Join you how to properly take a bath. - But I don't need a tutorial on how to take a bath. So it's like dragging. I'm like, fuck, just get to the point where he's coming in. No, we watch her take her full bath. She gets out, still taking time. She gets out, now she starts walking to her room. There's a dark room in there, you can't see. She gets in there, she goes into, because we do see him in the hallway at one point and he's like, yeah. But then it goes back to her, she walks to her room and then this is where she starts walking and she gets tackled, right? - I thought it was in her kitchen. She was like trying to make dinner, so yeah. He tackles her like a fucking football player. - Yeah, he's like, yeah. - Yeah, so this is the one where you were talking about mentioning, 'cause he ties her up to her bed or he's bed. - So this is another one. - Yeah, exactly. - And he's like, you look different, but I know it's you, Mommy. - Mm-hmm. - I was like, no. - Now I don't wanna hurt you. - He just wants to talk and he actually has her gag, so he takes off the gag. - Yeah, and he does the old trope. If you don't scream, I'll take this off. - Yeah, and he's like, we're back together and you'll never leave. - Yeah, he's like, I'm gonna keep you forever and she starts the panic again. - And you get more of, he's like where he's coming from. Thinking that he's talking to his mom, he's like, you love me alone so many times and I was just so scared and I didn't think you were coming back. - Yeah. - But deep down, Mommy, I knew you would come back for me and I knew that I would find you and you're all mine. - And then she was like, he's like, you don't remember, I hid in the closet. - Yeah, she used to date a lot of men. - Yeah, which why? - I think implying that she was a prostitute. - They didn't love her, but I needed you, Mommy. - Yeah, I needed you. - And he's like, there were so many men. So is this why he's targeting girls that are- - Many men, many men, many men, many men, and men, and men, was death upon me. (laughing) - What song is that? - Pretty soon. - I can't, what is it? (laughing) ♪ Many men, many, many, many, many, many, many ♪ ♪ Wish death upon me, nah, nah, nah, nah ♪ - That's hilarious. - I'll take you to the candy shop. - No. - No. - That's why he dropped the line. - So anyways, he's still saying he's not gonna hurt her. - I'm gonna sing 21 questions. - He's not gonna hurt her, but then she starts to scream again, right? And then he puts the gag back on her. - Yeah. - And then he does, right after he lied to her, he then takes the knife and starts pressing it on her. - Oh, one thing she also, he also says, is that maybe the guys gave her dollars, but they didn't love her. - Yeah. - So maybe she was a lady of the night. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, so she- - How do you know this lady was a porn star? Weird. - No, not her, like his mom. - I know, but how do you know this lady was a porn star? - I don't know. He imagines. Yeah, he gags her and he says he's gonna keep her so she never leaves. - Yeah. - And stabs her in that Malabagan chest. - But slowly, and then it kills her. - Yeah, and then he like, after he does, he like just lets his body weight fall over her. He's like, nay. - He just starts rocking. Yeah, he starts rocking her mommy. - Over her. I was like, ugh. No. Rest. - Ugh. So go back to his apartment and he's talking again to the, to another mannequin. He's like, you're not going up to now, you're staying home with me. And so I think he takes her back to his place. - Mm-hmm. - It looks like it's his apartment now where he actually scalps the model. - Yeah. - And puts it on the mannequin again. - Yeah. - And he nails it. And I just like, what was his mannequin's mannequin? - Now this is, he's full on mannequin. He is like off the hinges. He's overboard now. - And then the-- - 'Cause this is where it starts to climax, right? - Yeah, and he lights off a cigarette on the mannequin's chest. - Yeah. Because earlier in the movie, it shows scars on his chest, right? When he's changing. - So I don't, so it doesn't show it in the movie, but when I was doing research essentially, like that's where a lot of his traumas coming from, he didn't have the best mom. She would have been in him a lot when she would do physical harm, like light of cigarettes on him. So that's where some of his scars were from, was from his mom. - Yeah. - He didn't him. And-- - So, this just hit me again. This guy, and correct me if I'm wrong if you don't agree, but this guy looks like a knock-off Danny trail. - Oh my god. - Like a chubby trail. - I don't think he'll look like him. - I don't, listeners, if you're listening, please reach out to us. Do you agree? Does this look like a knock-off? Like a Kirkland branded Danny trail. (laughing) - I think it does. I think he does. - Yeah, so he like goes into a child-like mode. I feel like at this one, he's playing with like a toy gun. He has a little like a music box or some sort that he has playing on the background, and he's just shooting a poster on the wall with like one of those little fake gun toys. So he had a whole breakthrough moment. - Well, so he had a weird thing, 'cause he had like a little ray gun toy, and he puts a little hat with wings on, and he's like, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm, mmm. Like what the fuck? - So he has. - And then he gets a real gun, and then loads that, and his neighbors don't hear it, but he's shooting a target in his house that he's done multiple times. - So he had like a full on fucking moment where he thinks he killed his mom and he went into childhood mode. - Yeah. - I don't know. - You guys just having a rough time. - Yeah, he's fully on fucking freaking out. - And then he calls Anna from a phone, P-phone. - He's like, hey, you ready for a hot date? Can you be ready in 15 minutes? - Yeah, that's it. Just fucking 15. - Do you wanna go to a play? - Uh-huh. And she's like, I would love to. (laughs) - She, he picks her up and she gets in his car, and she's like thankful that he sent and he helped out. He was so supportive with the funeral, the model. - Yeah, he sent money for it and attending to the funeral. - He's like, yeah, no problem. But you know what? Real quick, can we go see my mom for Christmas? Can you just go pay respects to my mother? - Yeah, so they get to the cemetery by the cemetery. - Which, Anna, I'd be like, no, that's fucking weird. I don't wanna go to the cemetery with you. - You said a date, no. (laughs) - Yeah, this is depressing. And why the second date in a row you're talking about how fucking your mom, come on, bro. - Yeah, so they go to the cemetery and it's dark by the time they get here and it's like, they set this by where it's really foggy. And they go to the gravestone and he starts praying. And as he's praying, he starts crying. (laughs) - She's like, oh my God, he's like, mommy, mommy. - Yeah, and then this is where she boils over. He's like-- - Then he gets deranged, but then he lets loose. He's like, well, no, Rita knew me. Rita knew what was going on. - And this is where she was like, fuck. - Yeah, and then he tries to choke her and then she breaks off and she's like, ah, it starts running through the cemetery. And then he's like chasing after yelling, mommy. - And she hits him with a stick? Is that what she does? - No, so he runs and then he stops and she jumps out with a shovel and hits his arm and slices him up and he gets hit pretty good and it shows a lot of blood. - And she runs away again and he tries to follow her. He falls in the middle and he's like crying out for his mom. He starts hearing voices this part, right? - Yeah, so he's going back to the gravestone of his mom and then now you start, this is totally different. So now you're getting into his head. This is what he hears all the time that we are not privy to. So it's his mom's voice saying stuff and then you hear a little boy's voice, him as a boy. - Yeah, telling him that he's been a really, really bad boy and she has to punish him and he has to go in the closet. And there's a lot of, yeah, a little boy, a boy saying, "Please, mommy, no, please, mommy, no." - I'll be a good boy, I'll be a good boy, I promise. - And I have to punish you, Frank. - Yeah, sorry, I have to, and it's going over and over again. So this is what he's hearing at all times, it sounds like. At least, isn't that what you got from it? That's what I got from it. - I don't know, I didn't get all the time I just got here. - I think that's what happened in his head all the time because he keeps talking about it somewhat with these victims. - And as he's having this total, total, total, fuck that breakdown. - Meltdown now. - He's fucking, he imagines the mom, like all mommy fight comes out from the grave. - Well, he starts, he leans over, he starts crying. He's like, and then he's facing it and then he's down, hunched over, and this is the cool shout out, hash brown top Savini, fucking the effect of the zombie mom coming out, grabbing him, was fucking awesome. - Yeah, pulls on him. - And he's like, ah, and then he runs off and you so show him staggering home, and he gets finally to his house and he's holding his arm, and he's all fucked up, right? - Yeah, he sees a woman laying in bed. - Anna gets away. - Anna got away. - Assumed, we don't see her get caught, so I think she gets away. - Yeah, so we see a woman, I'm assuming it's one of the mannequins, but he thinks it's real. And he's like, mommy, mommy, I'll be a good boy. And then he looks up, and I just saw him. - And he's just holding himself. - All the mannequins are standing around the bed. - Well, no, so they're sitting there and he's rocking and he turns over, and then all of a sudden, he turns back to them, and they come alive, and they walk towards them. And they all have weapons. Pretty much the weapons that killed them, right? - Yeah. - Well, they move, they shift to different locations. So, at one point, I feel like they're standing. - Yeah, they start surrounding him. - Then they're by the dinner table, and then they're getting closer each time. - Yeah, and then they're all surrounding him. And he's like, no, and they grab him, and they all rip, start ripping him apart. They stab him, and then they're pulling him apart, and they're on him, and all of a sudden, I thought this was a pretty cool effect, because you see him, and he's screaming. All of a sudden, you see the mannequin, like him, the prop they used as his head. But they show him ripping apart, and it shows his head get ripped off. I thought that was a pretty good effect, and you see his blood and guts. - You can tell when it goes into a mask, it's like a mushy head. - But, so you think that's the end of the movie, but then it pivots, and it shows the next day, two guys driving, and it looks like they're detectives. You put that together, right? And then they get out of the car. They go down to his house, like, okay, and I must have called the cops. They go down there, they kick open the door, right? And then they just see him laying there with a fuckin' his knife in his stomach. Eyes straight out, he's looking like he's dead. But they don't do anything weird. They look around, they look around, and then they just, they look at each other. - Do you see the mannequins? He stabbed himself, essentially. - Yeah, then they don't check his pulse, they don't need any of that. They just casually walk out, gently shut the door. And then it just shows him there, and then all of a sudden, his eyes are closed, and then they open. Like, it's gonna be a sea cage. - It was supposed to be a number two. - It's stupid. - You wouldn't have watched it? - No, but that is the end of the movie. ♪ Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum ♪ - So, after a thorough discussion of this, has your opinion of this movie changed? - A little bit, man. - A little bit? You've grown a little bit more appreciative? - Yes. - Why? - Because they put a lot of work into this. (laughing) - You're walking back, man, you're walking this back. - I still wouldn't watch it again. - Oh, you won't, you won't put it in the thing. I think it'll be a while before I watched again, it'll be kind of, I'll forget about it, and then I'm like, oh, I'll put it on and watch it. It's not like I'm not gonna, I'm gonna vow that I'm never gonna bring it up after this again, but it's not like it follows. I'm not gonna watch that ever again. - Are we, is there ever gonna be an episode where it'll talk about it follows? - That thing's just a pile of steamy poop, but this is the last episode you're gonna hear about it, I promise. - Is it? - Yes, I promise. - Okay, you guys, we're holding him to it. - I promise. No, so that being said, Angelus, what would you rank this movie? - A two. - Two out of five? - Yeah. - So you would rank it above Critters three? - Yeah. - Okay. - Okay. (laughs) - I, for special effects, I would give this movie a two, I think. - Okay. - A story, it's okay, but there's a lot of pacing issues. Dialogue's not great. Acting's not stellar either. So yeah, I think just the pure effects on it, I give it a two. - What are you doing effects because of Tom? - Yeah, it's fucking incredible. The shotgun blast, the scalpings, fucking amazing. The pulling of a part of the Frank Zito, fucking awesome. - Fucking awesome. - What was your favorite kill? - Um, I'd have to say probably Tom's. - In the car, the shotgun. So I agree, that's my favorite, but what would be a close second for you? 'Cause there's a lot in this movie. - And there are a lot. I don't know. I mean, his was pretty fucking wild. - Satisfying. - That's satisfying, it was depressing. - That was satisfying to me. So that's what I was gonna say, it was gonna be a second. - His? - Yeah. - Okay. - So yeah, I think we're both similar on the rating, that's cool. I think that rarely happens. - So I do have, can I? (laughs) - Yeah, go ahead. - Joe Spinnell, he was very serious about making a sequel for the movie with his friend buddy, Joe Vinazzo, for which they shot a 10 minute promo clip called Mr. Robbie. And after several years, financing for the film was found, and it was close to reaching pre-production stage, but then he suddenly passed away in 1989. So then the sequel never happened. - Oh, shit. - So it was a, it was a... - We were deprived of a world with Maniac 2. - Mr. Robbie. - Mr. Robbie, that's weird. - That was a 10 minute, I would wanna know more if he's like background, like, what happened to him? - I don't know if I need, we don't need a sequel. I'm just gonna be real, we don't need a sequel to this. - We need a sequel. - No. - The people have spoken, the mannequins one or two. - I don't know, I think this whole, this is one where you don't need to sequel it. - You can't do it, we need a sequel. - So, okay, cool, do you have anything else to add before we go to Vienna's review corner? - Oh, oh yeah, the headless corpse at the end of the movie. - Yeah, it was the shotgun blast. - Betsy Palmer's corpse, Jason Simone from Friday the third, 13, and they used the same prop. - Yeah, some of the helicopter shots were recycled footage from Inferno in 1980, low-budget stuff again. And then, yeah, I think that was, we covered everything else that I had. - Doper doodles. - Doper doodles. - Okay, well, without further ado, we're heading into Vienna's review corner, which we need to come up with theme song, by the way, Vienna. - No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. - Why not? - Yeah, no, it's a transition into the segment. I think we need to create a song, I'll work on it. Anyways, how are you doing? - Good. - Hanging in there? - Yeah. - Did you watch this movie? - Must of it, yeah. - You watched one else of it, how'd you like it? - It was okay. - It was okay? - Yeah. - What would you rank this movie yourself? - Triple it up, a two. - A two? Oh shit, two, two. - Oh, two, knee ups. - Okay, and then, what was your favorite kill? - Um, I don't think I really had one. - One. - Maybe, maybe Joe Spennels. - Okay, at the end, Frank Zito. Awesome, so before you get into the reviews you have, what is the general consensus that you got out of this? From the list, like the people watched this. - The reviews were very mixed, they were either like low scores or pretty high scores. - Oh, okay, so very, man, like polar opposites, huh? - Yeah. - They were way or the other, not in between. - Yeah, not really that many in betweens. - Okay, well, what are some that you got? - So this ranked overall a 3.4 on letterboxed at five. - 3.4 out of five? - Yeah. - Damn, so it got a pretty good ranking. - Yeah. - Someone said, "80s and brutal, don't ever hide in a public restroom, four stars." Someone gave it three and a half stars and said, "This movie is the cinematic equivalent of accidentally touching someone's greasy hair." (laughing) - Okay. - So I gave it five stars in the heart and said, "There will never be another Joe Spinel." So I gave it three and a half stars in the heart and said, "The subway scene literally had me covering my mouth, so I don't scream and disturb my roommates." - See, it was kind of an intense scene. - Yeah, someone gave it half a star and said, "Didn't think a serial killer movie could put me to sleep like this." - That's your mom, she wrote that. - Someone gave it four stars in the heart and said, "Thought it was going to be another dumb slasher who did not expect the great performances by great performance by Joe Spinel." - Mm. - Someone gave it two stars and said, "Nothing will ever be the late '70s, early '80s, gritty, sleazy New York vibe." - Amen. - Someone gave it two and a half stars and said, "Don't trust people that breathe heavily." (laughing) Someone gave it four and a half stars and said, "Joe Spinel is a creepy motherfucker." - Whoa. - So we gave it three and a half stars in the heart and said, "I think intensive therapy should be mandatory by law for all men with mommy issues." - Mm-hmm. - Sorry, just snorted in the mic, that was gross. (laughing) - Someone gave it three and a half stars in the heart and said, "What a strange sleazy movie." So we gave it three stars and said, "Gonna tell my kids this is long legs." (laughing) - What, oh my God, really? (laughing) I've never seen it, is that movie any good? - I don't know. - It's six bucks, should we rent it? - I think it's done for six bucks. - Yeah, it only, it has that one actress from that one movie that I'm never gonna mention again. - Oh, yeah. - As Nicholas Cade. - And Micah Munro. - Oh, you remember her name? Smap, clap. - To the worst movie I've ever seen. - Okay, you said you'd never mention it and then again. (laughing) - So we gave it four and a half stars in the heart and said, "Great film, greater poster." - Dude, the poster's awesome and I asked her mom in our new house if I could put that up in our office and she said, "Absolutely not." It's gotta be posters we like, movies we like. So don't let her walk it back. She said she hated this movie, but she's pulling her punches. - What do you mean I hated this movie? - Because one of the poster, I was gonna buy it and you're, no. - No, we didn't love the movie. (laughing) It's too dark. - Oh my God, I love it. - It's sad. - I love the poster though, you gotta admit that poster's fucking epic. - Who sees Big-ass Bulge with the fucking scalp? (laughing) - So we gave it three stars. - Okay, so we made it three stars and said, "The best part of this movie was the remake." (laughing) - That was not good either. We're gonna kill her. She's like wheezing and dying. So we gave it one star and said, "Man, this movie is bad. "Pure grind, incredibly uncomfortable "and not designed for you to have an ounce of fun." I know. (laughing) - Someone gave it four stars and said, "I think therapy would be easier." I don't know. - Yeah. - Yeah. - He needed loads, but do you think he could be saved by therapy? - No. - He was gone. - Yeah. - He was a goner. - Yeah. - All right. - Some of you have two stars and said, "Maniac is a nasty little horror film, "but it is also horribly over the top "and reminded me of Driller Killer, "which I also hated." - Uh-huh, I'm never heard of that. - I haven't either. - All right. You have anything else? - What movie are we covering next week? - Good question. - Are you ready? Are you ready? 'Cause I'm so excited. - Hell-raiser. - That's a song. (laughing) - Huh? - It's not the song. - Oh, no, we're covering Hell-raiser due to Clive Barker's special. - Huh? - I'm pretty excited. So this is one, if you've listened to previous episodes, this is a movie that me and Angeles are like we haven't seen it fully, but it's one that creeps us out. That's why we haven't seen it. So we're gonna rip the band-aid off with you guys as all the listeners, and we're really excited to dive into that one. - All I use now, Richard has any more fucking livage. - This one's gonna, dude. This one. (laughing) Fucking-- - It's gonna wake up yelling a pinhead. - Jesus Christ, dude. (laughing) - You motherfuckers are crazy. - You motherfuckers are crazy. (laughing) Never rolled over. (laughing) - Um, but I'm excited, dude. Hell-raiser, that's gonna be a fun watch. - I'm excited, dude. - 'Cause he's one of the iconic, like, horror characters. - I'm never gonna watch this. - Everybody knows who pinhead is. Awesome. All three of 'em. Are you gonna watch it this time? - Yeah. - Sweet. So guys, bear with us. We're gonna be moving. So hopefully we won't be recording Friday night, but hopefully we can really sit down and unpack and be able to watch it Sunday. So it's gonna be kind of a crazy week, but I think this'll be a fun one to cover. - Mm-hmm. - So, do you want to, let's get to the business portion. That's the fun portion. Do you want to announce the giveaway? What is happening? We already announced the winner, but you want to recap it? - Zombie Palooza giveaway. It was-- - Rob Zombie Palooza, baby. ♪ Wah, wah, wah, wah ♪ - Wait, wait, wait. Richard winning got special Rob Zombie stickers. - Mm-hmm. - Put this giveaway. It goes to Hite on Horror. - Yeah, we love 'em. Their post is awesome. They always have great reviews and a great supporter and we support you. We love you. - Yeah, follow them on Instagram and TikTok. - Yeah, what's their handle? - @HiteOnHorror on both of 'em. Yeah, she puts on pretty good reviews. - Yeah, they're awesome. - Of scary movies. Pretty cool stuff. - Pretty cool, pretty cool. And then that was a giveaway. You got a shout out, Andrew, this was her baby. She was proud of it. Usually I handled the giveaways, but she did this one and was really excited about it. - Thank you, thank you for coming. - So, hope you guys enjoy it. Be on the lookout for some more. We love giving away stuff to our loyal avid listener. - Christmas Terrifier. - Oh, fuck, dude. - Aw, god. - Maybe a full-on child's play. Doll, autographed. - I'll keep keeping that one for myself. - Maybe, maybe. We'll see. - We'll just tell the listeners they have a chance, but they really don't. - Oh my god. (laughs) Anyways, if we don't see you guys, happy Halloween. - Wha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. - Fuck those, my. - Yeah, be safe. Don't check for razors in your candy. - And pin. - Yeah, don't eat anything that's open. It could be poisoned. - Make sure those are having drugs. - You know what? - No fentanyl. - I never got that. They're too expensive. Where are they? (laughs) - I know. But anyways, do you guys have anything else? - Do you want to get the critic ratings or no? - Oh. (laughs) - IMDB 6.4 out of 10, rotten tomatoes, 40% and Google users, 82%. - Oh cool, we got to start remembering that. - I apologize. So it's well-received. - Well-received. - Okay, well, without further ado, should we cut this off? - Let's do it. - One. - Hasta la gozi. - Chachao. - Chachao. - Bye. (upbeat music) - Thanks for listening to Horror Cinema Obsession. We hope you had as much fun as we did. If so, help spread the word by leaving a rating and review wherever you listen to podcasts. And join us next time for another episode of Horror Cinema Obsession. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [BLANK_AUDIO]
This week, Richard and Angeles descend into the grimy, blood-soaked streets of 1980s New York to tackle Maniac—a grindhouse classic that blends slasher terror with psychological breakdown in the most disturbing way possible.
With iconic effects from Tom Savini and one of horror’s most unsettling lead performances, we dig into what makes Maniac such a grimy cult favorite—and whether it still shocks by today’s standards.
🧠 In this episode:
Full scene-by-scene breakdown of Maniac (1980)
Joe Spinell’s chilling portrayal of a killer unraveling
Tom Savini’s legendary special effects and THAT shotgun scene
Discussion of trauma, misogyny, and mental illness in early ‘80s horror
Viana’s Review Corner – Her take on greasy scalps, mannequins, and male fragility
Spoof Ad: Zito's Wigs & Hairstyles
Whether you're revisiting this grindhouse shocker or braving it for the first time, this episode is a sleazy, sweaty, blood-soaked trip through one of horror’s rawest character studies.
🎧 Horror Cinema Obsession delivers horror movie deep dives, cult classic breakdowns, and darkly funny commentary every week. Subscribe for scares, snark, and a whole lot of horror love.
