There are a lot of signs that the Giants could bench Daniel Jones sooner rather than later. New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard discusses whether Sunday's Week 9 visit from the Washington Commanders could be Jones' final start at MetLife Stadium if Brian Daboll's team falls to 2-7 and 0-4 in the NFC East @Bleav. Pat also goes over trade deadline possibilities with Darius Slayton and Azeez Ojulari. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 is an all-natural, specialty coffee with no sugar that is convenient for the on-the-go coffee drinker. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get a special buy one, get one free deal.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Could this be Daniel Jones' final home start as Giants host Commanders?
There are a lot of signs that the Giants could bench Daniel Jones sooner rather than later. New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard discusses whether Sunday's Week 9 visit from the Washington Commanders could be Jones' final start at MetLife Stadium if Brian Daboll's team falls to 2-7 and 0-4 in the NFC East.
- Duration:
- 1h 36m
- Broadcast on:
- 01 Nov 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
[MUSIC PLAYING] This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are the things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. [MUSIC PLAYING] [SIREN WAILING] Welcome, everybody. Welcome, Giants and NFL fans to another episode of "Talking Ball Live" with Pat Leonard. Halloween night, October 31, 2024. As I sit here listening to Al Michaels shoot straighties off at the Giants heading into halftime of Jets Texans on Thursday night football on Amazon Prime. The Jets booed into the locker room at halftime after a pathetic circus music type display in the first half against Houston. And Al Michaels, the great broadcaster, announcing that the booze are commonplace at the Meadowlands, both for the Giants and the Jets. The Giants not even playing on the field tonight and getting trashed by a national broadcaster. That is where we stand heading into week nine with the Giants 2 and 6, hosting the 6 and 2 Washington commanders. I, of course, am Pat Leonard of the New York Daily News and hosting "Talking Ball Live" with Pat Leonard on the Believe Network here on the YouTube channel, PL on NFL. And I have a lot on my mind right now regarding specifically the quarterback of the Giants, Daniel Jones. This season is lost. This season is headed in the wrong direction. It's going nowhere fast. The most interesting storyline, the most noteworthy storyline, the most important development to come imminently for this team is the eventual, and as I said, the imminent benching of Daniel Jones. Now Daniel Jones was already benched once during the Eagles game in the fourth quarter, early in the fourth quarter, Drew Locke comes into the game. The offense doesn't look much better at all. And Daniel Jones goes back out on the field from Monday Night Football in Pittsburgh and puts some good football on the field and on the tape. But like so many games and so many times in Daniel Jones' career, number one, he was just one of many problems, a lot of other things going wrong with the team. But number two, coming up short, not only in prime time, but also down the stretch with two turnovers on the Giants final two drives. And I think if we're being realistic about where this team is, where it needs to go, and how they actually feel about this quarterback, I think a benching coming soon is really the only reasonable and logical outcome unless the Giants want to just stand by Daniel Jones and stick by him. Because I think it does no good at the moment to do what you did in this Pittsburgh game as Joe Shane and Brian Dable. And that is to declare after a benching, Daniel Jones is our starter, we believe in him. There's a lot he's doing well. And then when the team loses and he is one of the problems, but one of many problems, then the head coach is diming out Danny Dimes at the podium for something he did wrong, kind of a selective blame game going on, I think in general, the narrative being that it's all, it's all on Daniel Jones, it's only his problem, it's only his fault. But listen, no one's gonna sit here and say the Giants don't need to move on a quarterback, they do. The Giants do need to move on a quarterback. They were looking to this past spring, they didn't. We know they still need to. We know that they signed Daniel Jones to this extension and with a trap door, so to speak, after two years, it's inevitable at this point they're going to take it. But from my vantage point, you don't need to do it in an ugly way. It doesn't need to be smearing Daniel Jones, dragging his name through the mud and discrediting him, whether it's overtly publicly or whether there are stories kind of building through the national media about the shortcomings of the quarterback compared to the promise of the build of the roster. Nobody needs to hear whether it's leaks, whether it's propaganda, whether it's whatever those designs are. Frankly, the shrapnel of the blame for the Giants, disaster and mess is probably going to spread no matter what happens. And no one really is sitting here anymore at the moment defending the fact that Daniel Jones should continue being the Giants quarterback of the future. So if we establish that the Giants look like they want to move on, if we establish that they look like they're about to move on, it's only logical that it's coming soon. And so they host the Washington commanders in week nine at MetLife Stadium upcoming. They go to Germany to play the Carolina Panthers in week 10 in Munich. Then they have a bi-week at which Joe Shane, the general manager, will conduct a press conference. And then they come back after the bi hosting the Tampa Bay Buccaneers at home. Now, if the Giants beat the commanders and Daniel Jones plays well and they finally get a win in division, then they go to Carolina, that game in Germany, if they beat the Panthers, you get in the two-game win streak going into the bi, that is obviously a path for Daniel Jones to salvage this for a little bit longer, to continue to make this season look like it could be something if the defense supports him as well. You know, yes, there's that small percentage chance that this could turn, that Daniel Jones could be a part of that turning it around, kind of saving his Giants career and also this season. Yes, it is early enough that you could have a miracle turnaround. But if the Giants lose to the Washington commanders, if they fall to two and seven, if they fall to O and four in division, at that point, you have to believe and understand that Daniel Jones' benching is not only on the horizon, but could be coming the week after in Germany, it could come the week after the bi, because think of it in two ways, one, as we sit here, knowing that the Giants are eventually going to move on. And listen, they might have a new general manager and new head coach next year if this keeps going off the rails. But we know they're already going to move on. They have a $23 million injury guarantee kicker, 23 million reasons why they cannot get Daniel Jones hurt in a game late in a season that's already lost and eat $23 million more dollars against next year's cap and owing that money to Daniel Jones when they already know they're moving on. So that's number one. There are financial incentives and reasons why if the Giants already know they're done. And listen, all of the passive aggressive or more than passive aggressive comments about where the blame belongs and the fact that Daniel Jones isn't doing well enough and that it was his fault on this play, that all points in that direction. And we already know they tried to scout or they scouted and tried to draft his replacement. So we already know it's headed in that direction. So if this season's lost and you know, this team's not going anywhere fast and assuming you're trading a couple pieces, even veteran-wise off the team at the deadline to get assets, how could you consider playing Daniel Jones, let's say for sure after the buy, if everybody knows that's where you're going, including Daniel Jones himself and the team. That's number one. Number two is the Washington commanders drafting of Jaden Daniels, number two overall, and the difference he has made immediately on their roster, on their offense, on their team, on their culture, on the belief that their fans have and on the bottom line, their record, six and two. That is a reflection of what getting the right quarterback in the draft can do for you, right? What it can mean to get your quarterback of the future. But the Giants were already in that market and what happened last year? The Giants going nowhere fast with an offense that could barely score any points and dysfunction in the building, surrounding the head coach especially. They won a handful of games late in the season and they won themselves out of the top three picks. And so they did not have a crack at the consensus top two quarterbacks, Caleb Williams and Jaden Daniels, nor did they have a crack at a guy that they liked as well in addition to Daniels, which was Drake May, number three, going to the New England Patriots. And so drafty number six, listen, Malik neighbors is promising, looks like a really good player. He's young, he's gonna develop and grow. He's a special talent. But the Giants and Joe Shane and Brian Dable in a year where they were looking very, very hard for a quarterback. And when John Marrow, the co-owner himself, even said if they believe in a guy to replace Daniel Jones, draft him, have them compete and let the best man win, when they were sitting there at six, they did not draft J.J. McCarthy. They did not draft Michael Pennix Jr. They did not draft phonics. So the one B quarterback at the sixth overall pick to the Giants did not appeal, that did not appeal to them. Yes, they were committed financially to Daniel Jones for this season. That was a factor there too. But going into next year's draft, the Giants cannot afford when this season is going in the tank to win a few games at the end of the year in a meaningless fashion while also risking Daniel Jones getting hurt and risking their draft pick being far enough out, whether it's seven overall or five overall, whatever it is, where they're not getting their guy. Because what did the Giants just show us with their scouting process? That they did a lot of homework on the quarterbacks and they were a handful, a few, they felt like were worth a pick in the top 10 and the others were not to them. And so you have to expect in a 2025 draft class where the early belief is that this class will not reflect talent anywhere close on the high end especially to the 2024 class. Obviously things can change. Guys come out of nowhere prospect wise often. But going into the 2025 draft, let's say the Giants scout them all. Cam Ward, Door Sanders, Quinn Ewers. And let's say they scout the top five, six quarterbacks. Jalen Milro, throw him in there. And Carson Beck, Georgia. And they're scouting all of these quarterbacks. And let's say they decide there are two that they feel like are their next guy. They have to have face of the franchise talents. You want to be in position to draft those players. If you're going to have to trade up for them, you don't want to be trading up more than a pick or two. You don't want to be expending assets that as Joe Shane is learning the hard way now, even just trading the second for Brian Burns, a guy who once was supposedly fetching a couple of ones, that second round pick, Joe Shane traded away. He needed, he needed that. Especially to draft the corner that he did not select and was not able to get. You look at their secondary now and their problems defending the past. And Brian Burns is a good player. But when you think about a trade up and what it's going to cost to go get that quarterback, you need those assets as the Giants. Whether it's Joe Shane is a general manager, Brian Dables, the head coach or not, you need those assets. And so John Maris never going to authorize a tank. And the Giants, as they are currently consistent and led, they are not going to tank a season. You can go all the way back to the Chase Young Bowl when they beat the commanders and the commanders ended up with a higher pick. And the Giants ended up with a better player in Andrew Thomas with a lower pick than Washington got in Chase Young. But at the moment, it seemed obvious that the Giants would benefit from losing that game and they refused. John Maris refused to do that. And that is how he operates, that is how they operate. However, you signed Drew Locke, you gave him real money. Even though so far when we've seen him on the field in limited action, it hasn't looked promising. If you're Brian Dable and Joe Shane, there's the injury guarantee. There's the already known lack of belief in the current quarterback. If you bench Daniel Jones and you move on and you set the table for next year and you put Drew Locke in and maybe Tommy DeVito comes in eventually as well again, you put yourself in a position where you're probably still not getting results. So you're probably still losing a bulk of your games. But if you can show progress with a different quarterback, then, and again, I do not believe that Daniel deserves to be dragged through the mud and the finger pointed at him in blame. There's so much wrong with this operation starting from the personnel and the game management of the coach and all kinds of decisions and all the way down. But then, you know, Devil's Advocate, you have an argument if you're Joe Shane and Brian Dable at that point to say, you know, look, we made some progress with this other quarterback, with our backup quarterback. And, you know, Daniel was hindering us in this area and this area. And we deserve to be the people who draft the quarterback next year. Like I was, as it was writing for the New York Daily News in the last couple of days about these topics and about Daniel Jones, especially in relation to Jaden Daniels and Washington coming back in. You know, I noticed bookies.com has released new odds for the next NFL head coach to be fired. And wouldn't you know, Brian Dable is now the most likely next NFL head coach to be fired based on these odds released by bookies.com. So in just three weeks, his odds have jumped from plus 625 to plus 250. So Dable is plus 250. Doug Peterson is plus 375. And then Mike McCarthy of the Cowboys is plus 450. So shaky ground risky, obviously, for Brian Dable and Joe Shane, because if they bench Daniel Jones outright and it's over, then they can't afford for this season to be a two win, a three win, a four win team, right? I would argue they can't afford it to be a five win or a sixth win team, frankly. But especially when you're talking about the two wins they have now, if that stands, or if they only get one more or two more. And this, listen, that's conceivable and possible with this team, then they're risking their jobs as well. So that's where we stand with the Giants right now. That's my belief in where things sit. I do think that from what I've observed, from what I've seen from Daniel Jones and how he's acted and behaved and how Brian Dable has talked about him and seeing the reports from national reporters on various outlets and networks and noticing the information that's coming out or being reaffirmed and confirmed and pressed and made sure that the public is aware and looking at Daniels, obviously, subpar play and the Giants overall as a team subpar play. I think all arrows point to, at this moment, the purpose and the main point I want to get across to all the Giants and NFL fans as we sit here on Talking Ball Live with Pat Leonard on October 31st, Halloween night, 2024, is that we are on Daniel Jones' permanent benching watch as of this moment until it happens, as of this moment until it happens. I don't think it's out of the question that starting now, you know, when will we see Drew Locke next? Could it happen during the Washington game? I don't think that's impossible. Or could they just give Daniel Jones a full Washington game? And then if it goes wrong again, then that's that and Drew Locke starts in Germany. Or could they give Daniel Jones through the bye week? And then at the bye week, Joe Shane speaks to the media. There's been a lot of talk about the injury guarantee and reminders about that. Do you make a clean break right there coming out of the bye? I think there's a lot of different possibilities for permutations, but I do think this is a topic, as you guys know, we've talked about this ad nauseum. It is the one, the most significant topic about the giants past, present and future and how it has impacted their team and how it's the most important position on their team that they need to upgrade. And in the unanswered questions about how they are going to proceed, how they are going to be able to proceed. So looking forward to answer all your questions as well. We'll talk a little NFL trade deadline and giants. Coming out of Sunday's game against the commanders, we will obviously do a talking ball post game live from MetLife Stadium, as always. About an hour and a half, usually after the game ends, I come out of the locker room and talking to day ball and the players. And I sit down in the press box overlooking the field, that turf that everybody hates over at MetLife. And I go live with you, the fans, and tell you exactly what I'm hearing, boots on the ground, what the reporting is from injuries to post game analysis, to what went right, to what went wrong, to the latest on the quarterback, the coach, Malik neighbors, the defense, Dexter Lawrence, Washington, Jaden Daniels, everything you want to know. And we'll talk trade deadline that day. And then I anticipate talking more NFL trade deadline early in the week, you know, obviously with the NFL trade deadline now, only days away. Let's see, as we sit here, one, two, three, four, five days away as we sit here on Halloween. And there are some obvious names to discuss about who the Giants would be most likely to move, maybe where those guys, you know, are most coveted and how they could help those teams. So we can also watch Thursday night football together as we talk, probably going to keep this to a tight hour or so on talking ball live with Pat Leonard. So we'll get to all your questions. 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The subscriptions obviously build our community and we want you a part of it. I learn as much from these as you guys do, I believe. It's always a great exchange of ideas and you guys are so passionate as a fan base and just as NFL fans in general and Giants fans and you know, those super chats, I'm very appreciative, but so subscribe to the page. And then the second thing is hit that like button, hit the like button while we are live. If you hit that like button while we are live, that helps tell the YouTube algorithm. It's live, it's cooking, we're loving what he's doing and it's going to bring more people here. It's going to alert more NFL fans, Giants fans, those who are not aware of what we are doing yet. It's going to tell them what we're doing. It's going to bring them into the fold and it's going to make this all the better for us, for me, for everybody, you know, the more the merrier to talk about this Giants organization and franchise that we're all very passionate about. And as I've talked about before, we all want to see succeed because I see that stat rolling out everywhere of how the Giants record in the last several seasons has been through eight games. It's like one and seven, two and six, one and seven, one and seven, two and six, two and six. I'm as tired of it as you are, I promise. So hit those likes, subscribe, purchase these super chats, go support our sponsors, my bookie, boom chaga and estate 98. And I appreciate it very much and it's going to help us grow and hopefully get to the bottom of how to fix this mess. All right, we start with, I saw Michael kick us off earlier on, he said, good evening, Pat. Great to see you, Michael. Vinnie G-Men says, thanks, Pat, for being a realist. You got it, Vinnie, I think if you guys have seen, based on how this is going, whether it's the record of the team, the trajectory of the team, the mistakes they're making, the questions about the operation, personnel wise, coaching wise, how they're handling the quarterback and, you know, hot seat for head coach, maybe GM, I have not steered you wrong. I have not steered you wrong. Whether it sounds critical, whether it sounds harsh, you look at the team's record over the years, you look at how they have regressed, and it is just explaining what's happening and analyzing what's happening and getting to the bottom of it. So, Tuto, my man. Tuto Azuri says, salutes and respects to Big Boss Pat, our mates, Michael Knight, Vinnie G, and all die hard Giants fans across the pond, greetings from our entire rugby team in Italy. Greetings to you, Tuto and to your entire team. Thank you and everybody for tuning in. Really appreciate that. I hope you're enjoying at least the embarrassment that the Jets are putting on the field right now and getting a little chuckle out of that, even though the Giants have been having their own struggles, that Jets first half was a comedy of ours. Dropping the ball before you run into the end zone, Devontae Adams with a drop after you go and get him from the Raiders and supposedly that's gonna fix things. Yet Solomon Thomas, leg whipping, CJ Stroud, and somehow not being penalized for it and only noticed on the broadcast after they watched about a thousand replays, I had to admit, I kind of rubbed my eyes a couple times thinking, what just happened there that I have to believe is going to be a major, major fine for Solomon Thomas because that was horrendous. Honestly, you should be ejected for that. I don't know the exact rule there, whether it's just be personal foul and then two would get you ejected to me. That looks like you're trying to injure somebody and you should be out. So, yeah, Tuto, even if Sunday might not go well for the Giants against the commanders, we always have watching the Jets embarrass themselves in prime time. Joel, what's up, Joel? Good to see you, thank you for the Super Chat. He says, I think Joe Shane does a poor job of team building. Debo has an offense that cannot be successfully executed by the current personnel, poor fit all over. Joel, I think you're right. I think Michael Lombardi, the former GM, has said before that he feels like the Giants and they're not the only team that does this, but they're kind of one of those teams that's guilty of just picking isolated talents and not working them within an overall structure and foundational plan. And that guiding philosophy needs to be there. And also, I just think a lot of the talent either hasn't panned out or isn't what it was scouted to be. I think Wondale Robinson can produce and contribute, but he's not a game-changing player. Jail and Hyatt, they trade it up to get a guy who can't get on the field. And when he is on the field, doesn't appear to be comfortable or executing things properly all the time or getting the ball or all three. You look at the backup quarterback situation with Drew Locke. (upbeat music) This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. Because Progressive offers discounts for pain and full, owning a home, and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affilients. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states or situations. Getting engaged can be stressful. Getting the right ring won't be at bluenile.com. The jewelers at bluenile.com have sparkled down to a science with beautiful lab-grown diamonds worthy of your most brilliant moments. Their lab-grown diamonds are independently graded and guaranteed identical to natural diamonds and ready to ship to your door. Get $50 off your purchase of $500 or more with code POD at bluenile.com. That's bluenile.com code POD for $50 off. - The Giants don't look exactly comfortable to necessarily roll him out there and say that, hey, this is gonna look better. I mean, it didn't look better against the Eagles, right? In the middle of that game, that was obviously partially due to them being messy with it. But also, you look around the league. Malik Willis, James Winston, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, there's a lot of backup quarterbacks in the NFL going into games or going into the team for a few weeks while the guy's injured and winning and playing respectable football. And so even the fact that Brian Dable said a couple of weeks ago, after he benched Daniel Jones in Philly and then he announced he was starting him against the Steelers so about a week ago, he said one of the reasons he was starting him again was because he gives us the best chance to win or he gives us the best chance, I think is what he said. And when you can say that definitively there, that says something too and that's team building again, not to mention look at the left tackle situation with Josh Azudu being again for somehow their solution and their proposed solution and their proposed backup and they're clear like this guy is our left tackle if Andrew Thomas goes down plan. And everybody, myself included, knew that that wasn't going to work. And anybody who did believe it was just buying the hope that it was going to happen as the Giants said, but there was no foundational evidence to support it. And then he starts one game at left tackle, one. And it becomes very clear right away that the offense can't really function and that he can't be in the game anymore. So they sign a guy off the street from San Francisco, Chris Hubbard, they start him against the Steelers and he gets smoked throughout that game at left tackle. He's barely played any left tackle in his career. He played mostly right tackle. He played a little bit of left but mostly right. So the offensive line plan, not a good plan, not a sound plan. Of course they did have to spend a lot of resources fixing the starting offensive line but you could have drafted a swing tackle, you didn't. And also the reason you had to sign and add so many pieces to the starting line is because you come in in 2022 and you sign Mark Lewinsky, you draft Evan Neal, you draft Josh Azudu, you draft Marcus McEthan. Two of those players aren't on the team anymore and one, you're not comfortable putting on the field and the other, you're trying to put on the field and he can't play. So that's why the offensive line is where it is. It's not Dave Gettleman's fault anymore. It's Joe Shane's fault. We could go throughout the roster but those are some good examples. Daniel says, Daniel Hirsch, first of all, thank you for that super chat. He says, should not signing Russell Wilson be a scandal? Why not sign him, bring him in after Daniel Jones and then take their time to draft a quarterback with no rush. My heart broke when Daniel Jones got so angry last week, fire, dable. Yeah, Daniel, I think, you know, isn't it interesting that you, as you were watching, as I was watching Russell Wilson cook the Giants, I couldn't help but think to myself and remind myself that hard knocks aired and they showed us a lot more than we thought. What did they not show us? Not a single mention, let alone any footage of the fact that Russell Wilson visited the Giants as a free agent before he signed with the Steelers. Not a single mention of it. How is that possible? Okay, let's say Russell Wilson didn't want footage used or let's say somebody in the Giants vetted away that they didn't want footage used. Okay, not a mention of it. Not a narration that they looked into Russell Wilson before signing Drew Locke. Shady, that's what that is. That's the word for that, that's Shady. Also, if John Mara was welcoming the competition between a rookie draft pick and Daniel Jones, why not welcome competition between Russell Wilson and Daniel Jones? And I think the, that question, you could answer that question obviously, devil's advocate, you could say, well, it's a lot different. Drafting your quarterback of the future and bailing on Daniel Jones for that guy versus bailing on him for a retread who at his peak obviously was a way better player than Daniel Jones, not even a conversation, but who, coming out of Denver, there were a lot of questions about whether Russell Wilson could still play too. And certainly he isn't the player he once was although the Giants tried to make him look like that for a lot of that game on defense, especially in the second half he was throwing the ball. Really the whole game pushing it down the field and that Steelers were moving the ball very well. So, is it a scandal? I mean, listen, I think Daniel, that Russell Wilson needing the guarantee and the assurance that he was going to start and be able to start for his team. You know, the Giants because of their financial commitment to Daniel Jones could not give him that. Now, that though, again, points to Joel's point. Listen, Daniel Jones has done a lot of things that he could be better at. What he did not do was sign himself to that contract. That was the Giants. That was Joe Shane as a general manager, John Marr, Steve Tisch, Brian Deble, all these guys. Joe Shane as a general manager signed him to that deal so the Giants were committed to enough money on Daniel Jones where they felt like, okay, we've impacted our decision-making now with the contract that we paid Daniel before. If you didn't have Daniel on that contract, it's a different story. If you hadn't made that kind of commitment, it's a different story. Now Daniel, to your point, when you look at Russell Wilson, they didn't have to pay him anything. It's the minimum in Pittsburgh because he's making so much money still from the Denver Broncos. It's the same reason why so many coaches who get fired, they end up going to some other team and they get paid a nickel or whatever the minimum is, a dollar and they're still cleaning up, making 5 million a year from their former team. Plenty of Giants coaches have been in that position before. So, I think that would have been a financially preferable... Essentially, you draft a rookie quarterback not only is it a promising young player developing for the future, it's also someone who's cost-controlled, right? And if you get a rookie contract on the books at quarterback, it helps you kind of cover the rest of the roster and spend in other places. So, Russell Wilson, if you brought him in and you made him that bridge, you get Daniel off the books and you don't have to pay him as much, that's a way to help you clean up your books and also have a little better of an offense and maybe withstand this timeframe and this stretch as far as your job security goes. I thought it was interesting, Daniel, that Brian Dable said several times, I think twice in his answer about Russell Wilson last week, he kept mentioning how explosive he is as a player, he's made so many explosive plays for Pittsburgh already, in the last game, whatever. And that to me sounded like a coach saying, that's why I wanted Russ. That's what I heard when I heard him say that. I don't know if that's what he was saying, but Brian Dable, I'll say this, I don't know what he did as far as Russell Wilson or not. Brian Dable is well known to talk to players directly, face time with players directly, he could be a recruiter in that way, wouldn't surprise me if, based on what I heard him say in that press conference, it sounded like what he was saying is, that's why I wanted that guy. And for a lot of reasons, they weren't allowed to have him. So, you know, I think when you say fire Dable, one thing that annoys me about the Giants operation in general, is that you know, I just don't like whether it's former coaches, former players, players on their way out the door, you don't have to drag them through the mud, especially when people are like Daniel Jones, like the guy has represented the franchise as a class act. If you don't like how he plays as a quarterback and he's disappointing you, move on. I don't think many people are gonna argue with you at that point, but just don't drag him through the mud. Daniel, thanks for that super chat. Scott Young says, we're all tired of the same story with Daniel Jones, I wish we'd just move on and end the Daniel Jones saga. Well, Scott, it sounds like you'd probably be pleased and happy with my update that you should expect Daniel Jones benching imminently and that at this point we're on Daniel Jones benching watch. Ken says, I see Daniel Jones having a goth-like second act. His physical attributes will keep him in the league for a decade. Ken, I do think that Daniel Jones will have a better go of things at his next stop. I think being out of the New York pressure cooker and also having a better coach, better scheme, more support whether it's offensive line, play calling, weapons, not being in the spotlight or all of the above, I do think we'll see Daniel Jones thrive in his next stop or in one of his next couple stops when he lands in the right spot. Will he be goth level second act? Well, remember goth, as much as that Rams team was good all around, goth did go to a Super Bowl with the Rams and then the Rams soured on him and then he goes back, he goes over to Detroit in that trade and finds a great fit there. But this was a first overall pick who had already gone to a Super Bowl. So, you know, a more of an elite talent there. So not directly comparable, but I think you make a fair point which is that, you know, sometimes a quarterback in one spot is either having success or it looks like he could be growing into that guy for a long time there, then it doesn't happen, but the grass could be green or somewhere else and Daniel Jones is talented enough for that to possibly be the case. You know, I think Daniel does have processing issues when he's looking down the field and when the play breaks down and when it doesn't look the way he expects it to for sure, but his running ability, his arm, his deep ball, his toughness, I mean, there's a lot of reasons to like him and a lot of reasons why in your, to your point, he can be useful to somebody for a long time. I agree with that as long as the injuries that he's had, particularly the neck which is not an issue right now this season, but obviously that's another thing to keep an eye on. You just want him to be able to stay healthy and not have any kind of recurring issues there. Steven says, I'm surprised to see how much I'd made out of the Eagles benching when it was pretty much garbage time. I remember last year, Cowboys game, Dable got killed for not taking him out. Well, Steven, this year is a different, this year's a different scenario for sure. You know, we're now at the moment at the, at the kind of, you know, this is the kind of the seminal moment and it is all built to this. It is all built to watershed moment. That's what I was looking for. We are now at the point where the giants are close to being able to get out of the contract versus coming into this season, they were locked into his deal. Going into next year, none of his salaries guaranteed next season unless he's injured for a physical and can't pass it in March. So now we're at the point where the organization, we now had a full off season, Steven, of watching the general manager, his staff, his scouting staff and the coaches go all over the country looking at the quarterbacks, studying the quarterbacks and ultimately trying to get one of their quarterbacks and then not being able to and drafting Malik neighbors. But so now we have that information. We know they're trying to move on now. We also can see what they have said about Daniel, what he's been blamed for. And Steven, to your point, Benny Fowler, who is the Super Bowl champion former NFL wide receiver who comes on the talking ball with Pat Leonard podcast every week. We do first down with Benny Fowler, where we break down the previous week's games league wide. He agreed with you. He said, I don't think that was a benching. I think that was kind of like a late game. Nothing's working. Take him out and see what happens type thing. So Benny called it, you know, not necessarily a benching either. So he seems to agree with you on kind of the characterization of what it is. But I feel like I'm close enough to the situation to know that that was a reflection of the coach and the Giants feeling like the quarterback is a primary problem for them. And one of the top things, if not the top thing that is holding them back in their opinion. So because of that, that eagles benching reflects how they feel about him, how they felt about why the offense was struggling in the game wide, struggling this season, even though they knew the offensive line was primarily at fault that day and what it could mean for the future. So that's my take on that. That was a really good comment from you though. Thank you for that perspective. All right. Yes, race says things could be a lot worse. We could be the Jets. It is just amazing how the Jets continue to one up everyone in the circus act department. I mean, what was worse, the Giants two point conversion or that Jets rookie just dropping the ball at the half yard line while he's celebrating a touchdown that hasn't happened yet. Alex says to Ken that Daniel Jones is a backup caliber quarterback, being big and tall doesn't make you good and shouldn't keep you around for a decade as a starter. Ken says, I never said a starter, right? So yeah, no, exactly. So he could end up being, I think, yeah, Ken's point was generally like a second act type thing. I think is what he meant. But certainly, you know, Daniel Jones could end up a backup to start in his next stop. I do think though, like I frankly do believe that if you look around the NFL right now, I mean, there's a lot of teams who, if Daniel Jones got a chance there with the right coach, I think could be playing better than he is in New York and could be an upgrade on their own quarterback. Ken says, Pat, I doubt Giants move anyone by the deadline, do you agree? No, I think, I think Gary Slaton and his usual lawyer, both guys who could be moved. I do think that, listen, Slaton, all right. Deontae Johnson was just traded by the Carolina Panthers to the Baltimore Ravens. And it was just a late round pick swap in the exchange of that trade. So not a lot of asset exchanged back to Carolina for a receiver who can make a difference when he's on the field, right? A guy who they had traded for. So if Deontae Johnson, who is regarded as a pretty good receiver, and I know he's not reviewed as the locker room guy that Slaton is and the well-rounded kind of teammate like that or whatever, but he's talented, that's what people pay for in the end, and that's what is the bottom line. And the fact that he only fetched a late round pick swap from Baltimore, what do you imagine then that the Giants would get for Gary Slaton? That's my question. So it would make sense at this point to move off him, especially if you're moving off of Daniel Jones as well, then keeping around the guy he's most comfortable with now wouldn't matter if you were already moving off that quarterback, right? So that's a reason to trade him. There's a reasons to trade him to try to get assets, especially if you're gonna be in a position where you might need to be trading up to get a quarterback next year, okay? Now that said, if you trade Gary Slaton, first of all, no one behind him on the roster has proven that they could provide the same football he can. Obviously, that's not jail and hide at this point and doesn't look like it's going to be. And number two, as I've been alluding to and kind of outlining, like let's say teams aren't giving the Giants any more than a seventh or a six and seventh or late round pick swap or something like that. Is that worth it to you? If you're Brian Dable and Joe Shane, you're trading away one of your better players and better skill players on your offense for minimal return and then it's impacting maybe your offense enough that saving your job becomes that much harder. So those are the questions they have to answer. I think there's because the price that they would get back seems like it would be either negligible or very low based on the market right now and how long they've waited, right? It could have happened in the spring. It didn't. Based on how long they've waited now and where Deontay Johnson's price came in and where Slaton's might, I think that increases the likelihood that Slaton would stay and be on the team through the trade deadline and for the rest of the season. But I do think that the Giants would love to get great value for Slaton on the trade market if they could. I'm just questioning whether they will. So he's a player to watch all the way up to and through the trade deadline for those reasons, but there's also a chance he remains because of those reasons I outlined. And then Azizo Jalari feels like a player who the Giants can could get more for him at this point than they could for Slaton, I would think. I don't know how much. But because he's playing really well, he's staying healthy, knock on wood, and he's a really good kid. Also Cave on Thibodeau will be coming back eventually. That's Joe Shane's guy. Brian Burns, they're invested a lot in him as well. Now, the Giants don't have the luxury of getting rid of Azizo Jalari from a performance and production standpoint on their team as far as their depth of their pass rush, right? Like they need him to continue to help their pass rush. But he is the type of player who could help somebody else. Teams like the Lions, the Falcons, the Eagles. I don't know if the Giants are gonna trade Azizo Jalari to the Eagles after letting them have Sequon Barkley and watching how that's working out, but the Eagles are just a team that needs a pass rusher or could use or it would make sense for them to add an edge rusher. So, honestly, shout out to the PHLY Philly guys, Bow Wolf and Zach Berman. I heard them mention Aziz as a player who could make sense or help the Eagles if that trade were a possibility, but obviously questioning whether that would even occur. I thought it was interesting too. They said that Baron Browning from Denver would be a guy that they feel like Howie Roseman would go after to help them with some positional flexin versatility on the inside linebacker and edge position. Reminder, we are sponsored here by MyBookie. 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Perfect for when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. It takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced or hot coffee. It's great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups of coffee. The link to go to is estate98.com/talkingball to get an exclusive offer for 50% off your first order. That is estate98.com/talkingball. Scott says I'd rather see DeVito than Locke. I think a lot of people would Scott. And I think if they bench, if and when they bench Daniel Jones, I think at that point then it becomes a matter of time, whether it's Locke getting banged up a little bit behind a bad offensive line or whether it's just not getting the results still with Drew Lock-In and that's conceivable that we could see some Tommy Cutlets again. Matthew Kelly says, "Pat, I feel when Mara said that he doesn't anticipate replacing Debo and Shane, he was sending the message to them that their jobs will not be impacted if they bench Jones." That's possible, Matthew, that that would not be out of the question as a motivation for John Mara doing that. But it would also be interesting in the sense that you could be right, you could be very right that that's a message he was sending there. It's to say like, listen, I trust where they're going. Wherever direction they're going in right now, I'm behind them and we'll talk about it after the season and go from there. But I think even with that confidence, there also comes the idea of what results are you getting when you make that move. So John Mara, like I said, if he understands that we're moving on, so be it. And if he gets to that point and understands that and accepts that Daniel Jones no longer the guy, so you go ahead and bench him, that's one thing. But if you go ahead and bench him and you still finish with two, three, four wins, how does John Mara take to the head coach and to the general manager given that his barometer, forget Daniel Jones now, is have I seen progress? Do I believe that this is headed in the right direction? So Ken the Giants, Joe Shane, Brian Dable, bench Daniel Jones, end up with a high enough pick that they can get their quarterback, but still be able to look their owners in the eyes and say we're headed in the right direction. John agrees with Matthew. Deepad says Tiki Barber said the veto would start when Daniel Jones is benched. Well, they gave Drew Locke five million guaranteed. So if they gave him five million guaranteed and then they're going right over his head to start Tommy DeVito when they benched Daniel Jones, then again, my goodness, how badly that would reflect on the general manager and on this team, holy cow. D says trading Z's and Slaton is low key tanking for a quarterback for that reason the G men, the Giants should do it. That's another reason why you could rationalize those deals being worth it. You get some assets, even if it's not a lot for Slaton and the team gets a little bit worse. Maybe you can show some progress with some of the players on the roster and get a few results, but at the same time, you're losing most of your games and you're ending up with a high draft pick. It's a really delicate situation for the general manager and coach to navigate though to still keep their jobs if it goes in that direction. John says why have you asked Dable why Bryce Ford Wheaton hasn't gotten any reps on offense over Hyatt? Also, why is Anthony Johnson Jr. not given any reps in the secondary? And lastly, is Deontae Johnson ever playing? I'm gonna answer the last one first, John. Deontae Johnson to me, I think is recovered from what I gather, he's healthy now. So I do not know why he has not been activated and designated for return and why he's not coming back. I do not know that. My best understanding is he's healthy or has rehab to the point where he believes he is. So I don't know. He had a good camp and that's kind of curious. I haven't asked Dable about that yet, but I will be doing that soon. Anthony Johnson Jr, that's a good question. He is a guy they got from the Green Bay Packers. I feel like they believe the guy they have in the game are A, kind of their guys and B, that they have a range. There's a lot of, of course, like draft pick, justifications that's going on right now for how playing time works and who gets chances next. So there's part of that as well. When they run that money position, when they run three safeties onto the field right now, it's Dane Beltan, usually who's the guy there. Sometimes it's Isaiah Simmons when he's playing. So, depth chart wise, I agree with you, like no harm in giving him, you know, kind of, you know, more of an opportunity there. Let him get his feet wet a little bit more and also, you know, based on what we're seeing from the Giants in the secondary and the fact that they don't have an interception back there yet in the secondary. And, you know, Pinux had, he's had some tough games, tough moments, and Neuben is a guy who's kind of finding his way. So I would not be against something like that. I will say that Johnson is, he's a young player, you know, he's very young. So they bring in like a young player who they're acclimating to the system and kind of teaching it to him on the fly. I don't frankly think it's that complicated for him not to be able to understand it enough to play. But, you know, clearly in practice, he's not taking any jobs from any one otherwise he would be up there. And then Bryce Ford Wheaton watched him in training camp. I felt like, you know, whether it's the crispness of his routes, his ability to take a hit over the middle or the consistency of his hands, I think just in general, still a lot that he's working on. And the way that they've kind of constructed this is they love his motor, his speed, his athleticism and his play-making ability on special teams. So he plays a monstrous amount of special team snaps. But obviously the idea with a player like that is to hopefully acclimate him to the point where he's becoming a part of your offense and still helping on special teams as well. Another young player, remember, Hurt last year, was even banged up, I think earlier this year, maybe in in camp at times. And he's kind of been banged up now too. So now like he's like, he's. - This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance. Fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds. 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You know, you're not gonna overwork a guy if you really believe you need them on special teams at this point. But to your point, John, I know what you're asking is, hey, like, if we trade Slaton or if we don't, you know, the giants need, they need a viable option behind the receivers they have. They need some depth at that position. People believed coming out of training camp that they had depth there. And now it's clear that they do not. So I hear you. Hirsch, what's going on? Great to see you. Thank you for being here. John says, "I would not trade his Ease Ozilari." Yes, he has injury history, but he already has six sacks. Deepad says, "Right, we would lose more "without his Ease tank for a quarterback." Danny, "Dink without dunks, Jones," says, "Do you, I can't believe there are still DJ apologists "out there. "Do you root for the giants "or Daniel Jones have to wonder?" I don't know who you're talking to there, Danny. Not really sure who you're talking to. I don't root for anybody. I cover the team. But I think you're talking about in general, like you're just saying at this point, how can anybody believe in Daniel? Listen, I think where I stand, if you're asking me, where I stand is I feel like Daniel Jones does need to be replaced and the Giants do need to move on after this season and go get another quarterback. But I also feel like he gets scapegoated and the finger gets pointed at him as if he's the only problem. And I think it's bullshit, frankly, the way he has talked about and treated at times. John says Aziz would be a cheap re-signing. Why would you be in favor of getting rid of pass-rushers? The reason Shane traded for Burns was because they couldn't sack the quarterback. It's really about just acquiring assets, John, and about, you know, this is a guy who has a pretty extensive injury history, so you know he has high-end talent. But for the first time in his career, he is, you know, both, or I guess second time in his career, really, but for the first time in a while, he is both staying healthy and producing. And so do you re-sign that player, a guy who wasn't your pick, a guy who, you know, you cross your fingers, knock on wood, but who has gone down in the past, or do you just, do you get something for that player? Now, I know early in the season, I said this before, early in the season, when the rumors were hot that Ozilari could be traded, I remember kind of reporting to you guys on here, actually, that as far as I understood it, his ease was not going anywhere, and the Giants saw value in him on the field. So I think, you know, if you saw, after the Giants Steelers game, there were some reports and comments made on social media about the Aziz Ozilari and Darius Slaton and prices that the Giants could conceivably fetch for them and, you know, that they would wanna be blown away and things like that. That is the type of leak that goes out there when a team like a Giants wants to be called. So teams will leak, hey, you know, these are guys that could be on the trading block, but it's really gonna take a lot to blow us away to trade these players. That's another way of saying, call me. That's another way of saying, that's what that means. So that doesn't mean they're gonna trade the players, it does mean they want to listen. Let's see. Deepat says, I just wanted to tank for a quarterback. We missed out on Jayden Daniels because we won games. Commanders traded away their passrushers last season to tank. Now they are sitting on top of the division. Deepat, what's it perfectly? John says, I get it, but the commanders were starting fresh with everything and their new owners wanted to move on from Sam Howe. It's been six years and Daniel Jones is still starting. Tells me John Mara doesn't want to tank. Jackson says, let's go Giants. This will be the best game of DJ's career. The team is growing. Interesting, optimist. Deepat says, yeah, but it's low-key tanking. You can justify it by saying we are trying to get draft picks. Yeah, no, there are ways to do it, do it discreetly. That's why there's just a lot of interesting moving pieces about what they can do, how they do it, how they operate here. But I hear you, Dee, I hear you. Really good points by you here. Let's see. John says, if anything, trade away players who aren't making an impact, in my case, like in my case, such as Hyatt. The problem, John, is you don't go to a team and say, hey, do you want this guy that we don't trust to put on the field because he doesn't know the offense and can't make plays, right? Like, you know, I'm not saying, I'm just making a hypothetical, but I'm saying like, that doesn't make the guy an attractive trade ship. And you're not gonna get a lot for the player who's not producing, right? Like Evan Neal, for example. You know, could you get something for him? I don't know, it would probably be a negligible late rounder at this point. You know, because why? He's not on the field playing football at all, let alone on the field playing good football. So how can somebody give you something significant for that? Let's see. This guy says, Mara is not serious about winning. He only wants to win with his quarterback. He has a preference. Jackson says, Daniel Jones is better than Eli Manning. That's quite the comment there. Hey, Jackson, thank you so much for weighing in and asking questions and giving your opinion on this chat. I would ask you to tighten up these comments a little bit. You're asking a lot of like five word comments and just dropping about a thousand different comments in the queue. That's fine if you want to comment like that, but I just don't want you to be offended if I don't read all of them because, you know, that's just a lot of different things to go through and I want to be, make sure I get to everybody. So just throw a bunch of them into, you know, throw a paragraph where you make a couple of comments and I'll hit that up, you know, and we'll move on. All right, let's see. Ken says, I guess Bobby Johnson wasn't the problem but Sillow has had all season and Neil and Azudu actually worse. Yeah, there's another example of a scapegoat. There's another example of someone who everybody treats like he's the problem when really the problems are more than just him. All right, let's see. Any updates on Chiron Tracy's availability for this weekend, Matthew says. Yes, trending in the right direction towards clearing the protocol and playing on Sunday, Matthew. You know, Chiron Tracy Jr. practiced in a limited fashion with a non-contact red jersey on Thursday on Halloween. And so because of that, he will now, he goes to sleep on Thursday night, wakes up Friday morning, goes into the building, you know, stretches, does his warmups, whatever. And when he is tested and evaluated, if he has responded well, so meaning if he doesn't have symptoms recurring or as Devonta Adams scores, looks like a deep touchdown from Aaron Rodgers down the right sideline and the Jets, it appears have taken a 21 to 10 lead with under three minutes to play at MetLife Stadium. Very interesting. Aaron Rodgers going crazy and pumping his fist. But Matthew, in answer to your Chiron Tracy question, once you go through that limited practice and you ramp up in that way, if you don't have any symptoms and you feel good, then you graduate to the next step, a full participation practice. And then after that, you get cleared and you play. So, barring a Friday setback, Chiron Tracy on track to be able to clear. Let's see. Deepats says, "Come on, Pat, you can't give Lombardi "that much respect for being a former GM. "As Crosby said, he was only a GM for one year." I do think Michael's podcast is very good though. I think he makes some solid points and it has a wealth of knowledge at his disposal. But I was courting him too. I mean, listen, a lot of people, you know, in our business, we say a lot of things, sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong, the Max Crosby thing you brought up, obviously, Lombardi misspoke on that for sure. And he admitted that in his podcast. But I think I was just referring to, he made an observation once about the giants and other teams being the types of teams that they just collect talent, but they don't actually build a team. And that was what I was referring to. It was just that idea that I felt like I've heard him articulate and that I agree with. All right, all that walking around on Halloween night and some of that candy, you know, making me thirsty. All right, coming down to the home stretch of the chat here, hard to fathom says golf was good with Los Angeles and then fell off a cliff. Jones is nowhere close to golf in terms of talent, correct. Yes, and Ben Johnson. Mike says Daniel Jones, Stinks Pat, three different coaches, he is at his best, a good backup. Michael says, Pat, I can't see Daniel's next team paying him what he would be due under the contract with the Giants. What do you think Daniel Jones market value would be next year? Oh yeah, no, it would drop tremendously. I think you're talking about maybe, let me look at the contracts now. I have to see, didn't Baker Mayfield, let me see what Baker Mayfield's making. For some reason, that name crossed my mind when you asked me that. I wanted to say he was at 30, but let me see. So Baker Mayfield at 33, Geno Smith, 25 a year. And then after Geno Smith, it drops to Gardner Minshu at 12.5. So, you know, you have Derek Carr at 37 and a half, Aaron Rodgers, 37 and a half, Baker, 33. I mean, Daniel at that point would be, you know, probably making very low-end starter or high-end backup money, I would think, on his next contract eventually. It all depend on where he went and how he was being used eventually, right? So, you're talking about him going somewhere with two years remaining on his current contract, right? If he was traded, so you could release him, but then you could also trade him, right? So, if he's traded, he still has a contract for two more years. If he's released and not claimed, you know, then that's a different story. But I do think his next contract ends up being, you know, ends up being like low-end starter or, you know, high-end backup, depending on how the team intends to use him. Stephen says, wow, Pat, I said the same thing about the two-point-play debacle versus the Jets TD fiasco, that's funny. By the way, my handle is for the Grateful Dead song, St. Stephen, New Jersey, me being a deadhead named Stephen in New Jersey. St. Stephen with a rose in and out of the garden. He goes, let's go, Stephen, love it, the dead. All right. John says, I don't want Joe getting fleeced by the Eagles, if that means if it's in a Z's deal, yeah, I agree. You mean again, I think is what you mean. A2 says, hey, Pat, did the Giants resign Jones yet to a lifetime deal? (laughs) You're funny, A2, you're funny. Hey, Pat, how does this sound as Z's for Malik Willis in Green Bay, says Brick City? You know, Brick, definitely to me, I think Malik Willis looks like a guy that the Packers like and that they've developed into a capable player. So I don't think they would be trading him. Gary says, hey, Pat, I was Tracy doing Dexter, looked kind of angry today, he's ready to explode. Dexter is ready to explode, he is tired of losing. Tired of losing, very interested to see how Dexter will continue to progress if the Giants keep losing. 'Cause he's the leader of this team and, you know, he's obviously tired of it, sick of it. And from my vantage point, he essentially got Deontay Banks benched from the standpoint of whatever he said on the sideline there about what was unacceptable, led to Deontay Banks not being on the field anymore. John says, if the Giants can't move up to get the quarterback they want in 2025, how well are the Giants capwise to go after a free agent quarterback next year? So the Giants at the moment, according to overthecap.com, they're projected to have $48 million in cap space next year. As of this moment now, obviously, getting rid of Daniel Jones would free up $19 million. So you get rid of Daniel Jones that frees up $19 million. So now you're talking about $67 million, you know, inching towards $70 million in cap space, you know. So that's what it looks like as of this moment based on the players on the roster and what their contracts look like. Now, you know, where would that rank? Let's see. So in the league, based on a salary cap of, let's according to overthecap.com, based on a league salary cap of $272.5 million next year. As of this moment, the Patriots and the commanders and the Cardinals and the Raiders all project to have more than 108 or more million dollars in cap space. The Patriots, the highest at 131, commanders 121, Cardinals 118, Raiders 108. After that, it goes down to the Chargers, Vikings, Bears, Steelers, Broncos and Lions who are all in the 70s. So if the Giants cut Daniel Jones and they make some other changes, they could end up being like in the top 10 of teams in cap space, you know, next off season. That's where they could position themselves. The free agent quarterback market next year is not extremely sexy though. Like as far as the bridge or stop gap guys, the most interesting name on it to me is James Winston, but who knows what, whether he'll be available if he keeps playing the way that he played taken over for DeShawn Watson there. Mel says the biggest market on the planet and they can't organize it. John says Aziz is a good pass rusher, but he's one dimensional look at the tape. He's poor against the run. Let's see. John says, "After my original question, the rest were all chatting with D-pat not towards you. But this is my last question. I saw an article about Sam Darnold leaving for the NFC East. Is that the Giants?" I didn't see that John. Be interested to see where that came from. I mean, if the Vikings did not retain Sam Darnold, then he will certainly, you know, be receiving a starting job somewhere. I have to, listen, maybe Sam would want to come back to New York. I have a hard time believing he would want to be back in New York. Of course, the Giants aren't the Jets. They're different organization, but they've been losing just as much, just as often and been dysfunctional in similar and different ways over recent years, plus the pressure cooker of the market. I don't know if that would be the case. I mean, certainly the Giants would have to consider him as an option. I don't know if Darnold would consider them. That would be interesting to see. I don't know the answer to that. I'm just skeptical. Of course, Washington's not an option. And then you have Dallas and Philly. I mean, they both have quarterbacks. Philadelphia, you know, Jalen Hertz playing well right now. There have been persistent questions about his level of play, but of course he's already paid. And then Dak Prescott's paid in Dallas. So kind of leaves one team with an obvious need. That's interesting, you know, could Darnold thrive as well with a different coach and a different offense? I think from my vantage point, he's benefiting in a large way from Kevin O'Connell. And I don't mean that Darnold, you know, doesn't deserve credit for it, but I just think the way that golf and Ben Johnson are clicking, I think Sam Darnold and Kevin O'Connell have found something. So do you just wanna rip that off and split it up and just go try somewhere else? Mike says he's treated the same way you treat Dabel, who is the only coach he's had any success. Oh, you're talking about Daniel Jones. He's treated the same way you treat Dabel, who is the only coach he's had any success with. That's not true. He scored a lot of points with Pat Sherman. He just, he also turned the ball over a lot, but he did score a lot of points with Pat Sherman. If Daniel Jones is above average versus Dallas Bengals or the Steelers, we could have one to three more wins. Yeah, no, for sure. Listen, I'm not debating whether Daniel Jones is really good or not. I mean, I already said they should be replacing him. I think I agree with that, Mike. Traded the same way I treat Dabel. See, I don't think that's analogous. I think critiquing a head coach for consistent losing and mismanagement and dysfunction versus a head coach publicly outing blame that his quarterback deserves. I think is different, you know, because he's like, he's that quarterback's boss and he's running that team, you know, so that's a different situation. But, you know, I don't take issue with your comment about he needs to play better and better play could have helped them in some of these games. I also think, Mike, though, that I just strongly disagree with the idea that you just replaced Daniel Jones and the offense would be better and the Giants would be winning all these games. Like, I think that is, you're really missing, I think, that there are a lot of other shortcomings with whether it's play calling, coaching, operation of the roster. Evan says, "Hey, Pat, try to get maximum value "at the trade deadline for trading away "upcoming free agents. "If the offers aren't the best, "don't rush to trade them depends on the offer." Daniel says, "Are you in favor "of Belichick replacing Dabel?" Yes, but I think that probably needs to be a complete, you know, overhaul. I'm really skeptical that you would be marrying Joe Shane and Bill Belichick, despite their kind of, you know, shared connection and histories with Bill Parcels. I am skeptical of that. Also, my belief is that the Giants building internally would need to look significantly different for Bill Belichick to come here. D says, "I think Joe Shane's philosophy "with wide receivers is we want guys "who are fast, backfired." 'Cause he went for speed, but not for route running and good hands. Also, an offense that guys need to be able to get under control and understand and handle. This says, "Hey, Pat, how are you? "Can you speak about these league sources "from your Wednesday column?" Oh, yeah, that was the column about how several league sources believe, you know, are surprised to see that John Marra and Steve Tisch, the owners of the Giants, are okay with the rampant, or rampant, maybe not the word, but the numerous kind of the spreading of the narrative and the blame game and the finger pointing and scapegoating of Daniel Jones as the only reason. And the fact that it feels like he's being used almost as a human shield to say like, "It's all him, it's all him, it's all him, "it's nobody else affiliated or associated with this operation." And, you know, you could use a laundry list of people affiliated with the Giants over the years that this has happened to, but it's not okay, it's not right. And, you know, you can move on from Daniel Jones without dragging his name through the mud. And as, you know, in the day after that post-game moment happened, we're able outed Daniel Jones for being the reason why Jermaine Aluminore got beaten by TJ Watt there and didn't have help outing him for not having help. And that was unusual by the head coach who's normally tight-lipped and prefers not to say anything. And, you know, I had a lot of different league sources that I was talking to that night, that next morning, that next afternoon, who were really just stunned that the Giants' ownership would be okay with and allow that kind of, that kind of like ugly spreading of information that's going to make one person and one player who has represented the organization look so bad and isolate him on an island. And we know that John Marra had an opportunity to talk about Daniel Jones, and he did not dump on Daniel Jones, right? In fact, he implied, and we obviously know Daniel Jones has been his guy, right? But Daniel Jones is a player that John Marra was asked about and he said, you know, I'm not critiquing players right now in mid-season. I'm not going to start doing that now. But he said, you know, obviously, we have a lot of different issues with our offense. There's, you know, that's not just one thing. So I thought that was an illusion to the fact that he agreed that Blaine belongs in a lot of different places, not just on the quarterback. Ken says, watching Texan struggle without Collins and Diggs, I can see a slate and trade, put him on the plane back to Houston tonight. Ken, I think you're onto something there, possibly. I do believe that the Houston Texans are a team to watch in the Darius Sleaton sweepstakes, if you will. You know, the one qualifier for, hey, maybe they can get more than we thought for a Darius Sleaton could be desperate need, right? This says, I agree on the character on all those Giants execs and coaches too, maybe Maris should be in that group. Fish says, bring Bella Chek and let him clean house. Killa Camp says, Green Bay could consider putting Willis in the trade market in the off-season if they can get a decent pick or draft pick for him. Yeah, I agree with that. Maybe, yeah, in the off-season versus now, that's a possibility. Devon says, hypothetical for you, Pat, if table were to be fired in season, who do you think they would turn to in the interim? Well, they'd better turn to the guy they gave in an assistant head coach title, just to make it look like they appreciated him and kept him for reasons other than optics. So that would be Mike Kafka. If they didn't give it to Mike Kafka, you know, at that point, I guess it would either be Shane Bowen or, you know, like a Mike Grow guy who's been around the league a long time. But, you know, I think it would have to be Mike Kafka at that point. Devon says, "Also, everyone should be subscribed and liking." Yes, thank you for reminding everyone. And, Fish says, "Great work, as always." Thank you, Fish. Devon, thanks for reminding everybody, guys. Please hit that like button while we are live that really helps drive, you know, more people to the channel and helps that algorithm on YouTube go to work for our podcast here talking about live with Pat Leonard on the Believe Network. Reminder, we are sponsored by MyBookie. MyBookie is rolling out the red carver for sports bettors and it's 10-year anniversary. And you need to use this promo code now, Pat's Picks, P-A-T-S, P-I-C-K-S. Use that at the link in all my social media profiles and you'll get 100% match in your first deposit of $50 or more, all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. I went three in one against the spread on my four Pat's Picks for week eight. Also hit on my top prop of the week of my giant sprinkle. That's Malik Neighbors over six and a half receptions at plus 107 that hit in Monday night's game against the Steelers. 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Banks is an interesting one because they are going to start in Brian Dable said and he's going up against Terry McLaurin, a guy who he's really gotten into it with emotionally, talks a lot on the field, talks trash, held him to pretty in check in week two in that tight loss down in Landover, Maryland. They've each gotten the best of each other at times, but it's going to be a big week either way for him. He's either going to rise to the occasion and that's going to get him going or it's going to continue to kind of spiral out of control here. I can't account for or explain Deontay Bank's lack of effort in some of these areas. And then obviously he should have been benched before that. I do think he's going to try to step up, but I think that this entire team has its shoulders slumping a little bit. They're extremely frustrated as a group and if they don't start seeing results soon, you saw in Pittsburgh, the pressure is bursting the pipes. Killer Camp says, Dable has done nothing but Shield Daniel Jones for two and a half years. He throws him under the bus one time and people freak out. I think there's a lot that's happening and that's less overt that's been said that you hear throughout the media that's coming from parts of the Giants, building your people affiliated around them that's coming from them as well. That was just the most overt and obvious example in my opinion camp. But guys, I want to thank you so much for another special episode of Talking Ball Live with Pat Leonard special because you guys bring your A-game, you bring the super chats, you bring really good questions. And I thank you for listening, watching, writing, supporting. If you're listening on our audio feed, whether it's Apple or Spotify on the Believe Network, wherever you get your podcasts, thanks for listening and please subscribe to the channel on YouTube, P-L on NFL and come join us next time when we're live. Didn't do an estate 98 giveaway tonight. I will come back with some good trivia for you on Sunday post game for that Giants commanders game and we'll get another giveaway going for the estate 98 coffee trivia and also get you guys rolling into an early week, probably an early week episode, trade deadline episode of Talking Ball Live with Pat Leonard, so stay tuned for that. Thank you especially tonight to Tudo, Joel and Daniel for your super chats and to all of you for asking great questions that help drive the conversation. The Jets turn it around and beat the Houston Texans. That is two straight years that the Jets have had a five game losing streak going into a game against the Texans at MetLife Stadium and then they beat Houston to snap that streak. This has been Pat Leonard from the New York Daily News and the Believe Network here on Talking Ball Live saying so long from New Jersey, looking forward to commanders giants on Sunday in as I said at the start of the show, if you missed it, go back and watch. You can watch a rewind on the YouTube channel or listen to it on the Believe Network. This could end up being Daniel Jones final start at MetLife Stadium. A benching at this point is imminent if the results don't change and from now on, we are on Daniel Jones benching watch until further notice. Take care. Thank you so much, John. Thank you everybody. Have a great night. If you're a facilities manager at a warehouse and your HVAC system goes down, it can turn up the heat, literally. But don't sweat it. Granger has you covered. Granger offers over a million industrial grade products for all your operations, including warehouse HVAC maintenance. And even better, they offer access to experts and fast delivery so you and your warehouse can both keep your cool. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done. Prescriptions, copays, lab tests. Even with insurance, healthcare can cost thousands every year. But not for me, because I'm enrolled in VA healthcare. My service was then. My benefits are now. Get what you earned. Visit chews.va.gov. Not all veterans are eligible for the type or amount of benefits mentioned here. Bingo. All right, Phil, we're recording now, so it's live. Go ahead, pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son. Man, I mean, come on, man. Just go. This isn't CBS. All right, be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims Complete Podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks the [BLEEP] out of his son, this would be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Ditto. Father, son, dynamic duo, talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And hey, it's an extension of what we did, right? Growing up. I was able to watch my father play football, then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And hey, sometimes we're full of it, and sometimes we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do. You're a little spotty, but you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this, and it's been awesome. Sims Complete, check us out. Wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. See you. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. [BLANK_AUDIO]
There are a lot of signs that the Giants could bench Daniel Jones sooner rather than later. New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard discusses whether Sunday's Week 9 visit from the Washington Commanders could be Jones' final start at MetLife Stadium if Brian Daboll's team falls to 2-7 and 0-4 in the NFC East.