We constantly hear this is a special rivalry? But, what makes it the best in the country? Join InsideTexas.com and use promo code "HOOKEM" for 50% off an annual membership: https://www.on3.com/teams/texas-longhorns/join/ This video is brought to you by Gabe Winslow. Call 832-557-1095 or visit his website to start your ideal mortgage process (www.mortgagesbygabe.com) Chapters: 00:00 Coaching Records 06:00 Time of Year 09:15 Neutral Site 14:56 Game Intensity & Wrinkles/Adjustments This Video Brought to You By Our Wonderful Sponsors: Purchase The 2024 Longhorn Football Prospectus: Thinking Texas Football - 12th Annual Edition: https://sites.google.com/view/the-2023-burnt-orange-bible/home Written for the passionate, smart fan who wants more than recycled corporate media content. Find out why it's called The Burnt Orange Bible. Smashwords (compatible with any device, select epub for Apple/Kindle): https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1591653 Apple: https://books.apple.com/us/book/2024-longhorn-football-prospectus-thinking-texas-football/id6554008037 Amazon (Print): https://a.co/d/iVszuhf Be the smartest fan in the room and start Thinking Texas Football today. Listen to the Podcast: Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3P0cwAUPNZrsNrTOKOfa6x Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/inside-texas-football/id1721623113 Find Us On Social Media: Twitter: https://twitter.com/InsideTexas Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/InsideTexas/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/insidetexas/ https://www.on3.com/teams/texas-longhorns/
Inside Texas Football
Deep Dive: The Unique Nature of the Red River Shootout (Texas vs. Oklahoma)
Hey everybody, welcome to the Deep Dive. I'm Paul Wobbleington. That's Ian Boyd, joined by Deep Dive mascot Izzy. Also, that's Ian's daughter. We didn't just take a child and make it our mascot. That wouldn't be appropriate. Hey, we're going to talk about the Texas OU rivalry, of course, because there is no other game that matters to Texas or OU fans this weekend or college football fans, maybe other than Ohio State Oregon, but we'll let you decide on that. Hey, what we want you to definitely decide on is make sure that you like this video, subscribe to the channel, and go join inside Texas with the promo code IT1. For one American dollar, you'll get two months. That is known as a deal, ladies and gentlemen. We got another deal for you. We're going to talk about this rivalry and we're going to talk about it from a deep dive perspective of the interplay of what makes this rivalry so unique. We know the intensity of it. If anyone's ever attended it, you feel the goosebumps when the teams run out of the tunnel. We're going to talk about the neutral site. We're going to talk about the fact that it's the time of year that's also relevant. It's not the end of year game as so many rivalries are. Then we're going to talk about the fact that intensity interplays with wrinkles and adjustments, which have always proven so important in this rivalry. We're going to have a little bit of a perspective on that and what makes it so unique. We're going to begin by talking about the record of Texas coaches in this rivalry because if you're of a certain age as a Texas fan, you may not know this. Ian, I'm a little bit older than you, but when you enter the sort of the modern era or the era of college football, when it really entered the national consciousness at the same time as pro football going on television and all that, that's the hire of Darryl Royle for the University of Texas. That was a fortuitous thing for Texas because of course, Royle won three national titles and established the Texas football brand. Twelve seven and one against OU. Acres, Fred Acres, his successor, five four and one against OU against some very good OU teams, by the way. Mick Williams and Maccabick, not very successful at UT and total winning records against OU. So between 1957 and 1997, Ian, it was understood that Texas would probably get the better of OU in the series. The worm turned and my argument is that there was an aberration to the series that was introduced in 1998. What are your thoughts so far when you see this graphic? I hope that you're right and I think you might be. I don't want to get us off on too much of a tangent, but I wonder if joining the SEC is going to be what turns the worm in a long term where Texas is more consistently on top in this game. Of course, they joined the SEC because leadership changed. Yeah, leadership is important whether in this rivalry or the direction of your university or its athletic department and OU, I think, has benefited recently with pretty darn good leadership, at least at the athletic department level with Castiglione. I think he's done a pretty good job and I think that's one of the differentiators in their program and why it's sustained. I do agree that the SEC will be a turning point. In part, because my theory, Texas is at its best when it's challenged and I've always tried the Texas fans who would say, "Oh, why don't we stay in the big 12?" It's an easier path to the playoff or the national title. Of course, the answer is because we're not challenged. We're not facing existential threats and humiliation quite the way that you are in the SEC and that weaponizes Texas. When we're challenged as a university, we do good stuff. When we get complacent and slothful, it gets pretty ugly. So that's always been sort of my grand theory, but what's interesting here, Ian, that I also want to point out is between 1957 and 1997. When Texas played OU, intensity, preparation, and physicality, we're assumed on both sides. The idea that you would ever come out unprepared or not ready to play or it's just another game. As disparate a personality as Royal Acres, McWilliams, and McAvick, at some level understood this was not just another game. Mac Brown comes in and here's the great irony for Texas fans, Ian. He restores and revives Texas football. Arguably between 2000 and 2009, Texas football is the program in the nation in terms of just winning and of course, a national title and almost another national title in 2009. But at the same time, he can't deal, and I mean, Mac Brown, with an athletic peer in a rivalry game, specifically OU. Why? I think that's the perfect setup for what we're going to discuss in this show. It's because I think this game is unique from any other game played in college football for the reasons they were about to get into. And I think that was extremely hard for Mac to understand. I think he eventually got it in the late 2000s. And then I don't know what happened in the early 2010s. I mean, everything was kind of he probably just ran out of juice, honestly, right? Yeah, he got it. He got it good. Yeah, let's let's I'll let you guys interpret that however you like. But one of the things that is unique is the fact of the time of year and the fact that it's at a neutral site. So let's talk about the time of year, Ian. Why is it remarkable or important that it's in the middle of the year in October, rather than the end of the year as so many rivalries are? There's I mean, there's a couple things. One is that you don't have a year's worth of film on your opponent. I used to think of this game as being like, this is basically a playoff game. It just takes place earlier in the year. And playoff games are different. Like when you get into the playoffs, coaches, a lot of coaches don't really seem to understand this. A lot of commentators don't seem to understand this. The game planning and the way that teams play to their matchups and postseason games, the college football or the NFL is totally different. The level of intensity of preparation and the just like how much teams like just game playing it like very carefully like, okay, we're going to make them beat us this way or this way. And here's how we're going to achieve that is different. So I was like, the Red River shootout is basically that in the middle of the year, but it's not because the other wrinkle is that because of the time of year, a lot of these these two teams often don't know who they are until they leave the stadium. Yes. So I think of it as a diagnostic. Yes. You have this new car. So college football every year in August or in the spring, however, you want to talk about you get this new car. You trade in your old model. And you might have loved the old model, or maybe you didn't like the old model very much, but you get a new car and you get to kind of build out that car the way you want, you get to trick out your ride, right? And then you cruise through hopefully the early part of the year, if it's a good ride, and then you got to run a diagnostic. And the OU game, you go into the garage and you're like, I didn't even know that was a problem. I didn't have a Czech engine light on that, but holy cow, we can't defend this or we can't do this route or we can't run the ball at all. If a team does this, and OU's had similar reactions on their side. But I always thought of it that way. It's like a playoff check diagnostic. And if you pass, it sort of pass fail. If you pass, boy, the world is your oyster and we can sit there and envision all sorts of scenarios. If you fail, it's the end of the world and you're never going to win another football game, which, of course, is not true. But that's how you feel walking out of that stadium. You'll recall that going into the playoffs last year, the fact that Texas lost this game was a big reason why I was like, I just don't think this is a national championship team. Yeah, yeah, you were very, I think, prescient in that regard. I was very into the exes and nose of Washington of like, we need to be around in a dime against these guys and like experiment with a light front and, you know, like really double cover. And you're like, Hey, man, I think it's like, we're not ready. It just broadly. And my proof is OU. And I was like, well, it's probably a good point as well. I probably could have just done that and save myself some thinking in time. All right, well, I want to talk about the fact that it's a neutral site. Because I think that's very impactful. First of all, it makes the game incredibly cool, both visually and audibly. I was talking to my co host Randy Boone on the The Everyone Gets a Trophy podcast, which you guys can find on Spotify and Apple. And he was laughing because he's often outside the stadium with his family. They own some of the concessions nearby. And he says, you can hear a crazy roar up from the crowd. And you're like, Oh, it must have been a touchdown because they're slightly ahead of the broadcast. And it's like a four yard run. But that was just like kind of hard running where a guy broke a tackle. But that's the level of intensity. But it's also speaks to the neutral site. Everything elicits an emotion. Everything gets a reaction from the crowd. And you can hear it. It's the famous tunnel video as the Texas players are running out. And then they get to the 50 and it's like, yeah, Texas. And that's what OU is experiencing. There's certain sides at the stadium of if you got to go into the red zone, you might as well be in the middle of Oklahoma, right? But then there's other times where you might as well be in the middle of Texas. And you can't even get a signal in, right? I think that neutral site is huge. And I think that the most analogous game in that regard is Army Navy. Because they're both obsessed with each other. No one would ever at Army or Navy, I can assure you as a father who's a West Point grad, no one would ever say, I kind of actually think Air Force is our rival, right? That's not a thing. It's beat Army, beat Navy all year long. And most Texas fans, I can't speak for all. I think they view OU as the great existential threat to Texas football. And I think OU fans feel similarly. So I think the neutral site plays into that because think of the other great rivalries in Auburn, Alabama, the Iron Bowl, very intense football. When Alabama plays at home, they beat the crap out of Auburn. When Auburn plays at home, sometimes they stun Alabama. But that's a very different dynamic from a true neutral split down the 50. Half an orange, half maroon. At the 50, there's like fist fights. Like the night before, at least when I was a student, there's fist fights all over Commerce Street. And you know, depending on how many fights the Texas fans or OU fans won, you kind of had an indicator of the game the next day. So I think that's probably calmed down, which is probably good. But I just think the neutral site makes this special and makes it prone to weird momentum shifts in ways that other rivalry games are not. What do you think? You can see it. Like the last since Mac left, again, the game has gone back to being both teams go in ready to like bludgeon each other to death, whatever's at hand, you know. You watch this game and the swings are insane. And you just see the impact. You see like this guy, the guys make the uncharacteristic mistakes. You see the big rivalry hits. You see like one team just like look like, oh my gosh, I'm not going to get out of here alive. And the other teams on top of the world. And then something happens a minute later. And then on the other way. And then also the defeated team is completely void, right? Yes. When they're on top of the world, it's unbelievable. Like the older I get and the more I noticed, like the body language and the swings of it. Also, you know, Mac not coaching one side. The more obvious it gets like, oh my gosh. And then obviously if you're there, even even watching from home, even watching from home, you feel it. Because the body language in the stands is even exaggerated versus a normal game. Meaning if you and I are at a Texas game and we're playing Mississippi State and Jaden Blue puts the ball on the carpet, you and I both look at each other and go, right? At OU, we both go, no, like everything you can hyper. Yes. And it's the worst thing that's ever happened, it will never recover. And then a play later, the OU quarterback gets sacked and it's like, we're going to crush them. So yeah, I think that plays into it, the neutral site, the time of year, but also time of year factors into something else. You know, the housing market Ian, sometimes you got to get out there in the fall or in the winter and find the best deals. And the guy is going to help you find the best deals as Gabe once. So you could reach it at 832-557-1095. If you're driving your car right now, listening to this podcast, pull over and write down that number 832-557-1095. Why should you call Gabe? Over 20 years in the industry, fantastic at what he does, absolutely sharp as a razor. He's got a law degree, former national merit scholar. He's just really, really good at this. And he's also a really good dude. So he's a guy you want to trust with this. I can assure you this is an industry with a wide range of ability. It would be the diplomatic way of expressing this. Gabe is at the very top and the numbers prove it. There's so many satisfied. Everyone gets a trophy listeners and of course, inside Texas YouTube channel watchers who have used him and just raved about his service. Don't believe us. Give him a call. 832-557-1095. Tell him, is he sent you? And he'll know. He'll know. All right. Here's something else we need to know. We need to talk about this crazy interplay of this rivalry between the intensity of the rivalry that we just talked about and the fact that Texas and OU coaches, more recently, OU coaches, have always loved to introduce or hold back a new wrinkle. And how does that new wrinkle interplay with the emotions intensity of an intensity of this game? Because when you feel this urgency, when you encounter something novel on that field, it feels very different than when you encounter Kentucky is showing a different front and you're DKR and you had a bad series and you walk off and the O line coach with his whiteboard says, "Hey, we just need to do this, guys." It's a different feeling in Texas OU when they introduce a new wrinkle and it goes for 60. Talk to me about this interplay between the pure intensity of the game, but also the fact that coaches like to hold back adjustments. Let me say one more thing about intensity. The one thing we would hear, maybe you told this story or somebody I can't remember, but I think maybe Mac or somebody had NFL players come back and visit Texas guys and speak in the locker room and they would speak to like, "What's it like in the NFL?" And they'd be like, "In the NFL, it's like the Red River shootout every game." Whereas like that guy's like fighting for his paycheck in his family. And that level of intensity also probably the parody is probably similar because like most of the time Texas goes to the other team does not have the athletes in the size that Texas has. We'll see in the SEC that'll change a little bit, but then you play OU and it'll be like, "Oh, they have guys too." So yeah, I mean, well, you put it really well in your introduction there. Teams, especially in the big 12, it may be a little different now, but Texas and Oklahoma would routinely hold back like massive components to their team strategy for the game and then be like, "Just drop it." And every year you hear the same BS from the coaches. Like Vinnables is like, "It was good to have the off week and focus on us." And the Texas report was kind of like, "Hey, Sark, Sark in Texas was actually able to prepare for Oklahoma in the bye week." And it's like, "I've seen the Bob Stoops playbook from the 2000s and it's work on Texas for a day of every week before the game." Like they are routinely practicing stuff against each other that they're not even going to use until they play each other. And then after the game, it may be like a mainstay strategy, but until the game it stays under wraps. And so, I mean, we could get into like a million different examples if you want. Let's do that. Can you name it some examples? I think a lot of us can name OU wrinkles because we felt them, but name some of the examples of Texas introducing wrinkles. Maybe a guy named Jordan Shipley. Yeah, Jordan Shipley is a tight end. In 2008 was enormous. Oklahoma fans will look back and say like, "Well, our middle linebacker Ryan Reynolds, not Deadpool but another guy." And then Jordan will play for them because he does wear a red suit. That would have been really impressive. Ryan Reynolds would not have fared any better than this Ryan Reynolds. He like blew out his knee during the game. And then Oklahoma was scrambling both to replace him. And then also to handle the adjustment that I think Texas also waited to like the third series to do it. Which is, I don't know if that's, I don't know if it was like a break-class case of emergency or if they just were like, "Let's let them use up their opening defensive script and then get it out." I don't know. But they'll be like, "Well, Ryan Reynolds tore his knee or else we would have been fine." No. Ryan Reynolds was getting worked by Shipley. And that's part of the reason why he blew out his knee is because they were just completely unprepared for it. And it just, it, Brynn Vinnables tried like four different adjustments. Good reminder that Brent Vinnables at that time was the Oklahoma DC. Yeah. Before becoming the fall guy sort of there and then ending up having incredible success at Clemson. So kind of strange how that went full circle. The following, the following, and then the following here, Texas tried to go back to it. And Vinnables had been saving up a 416 dime package. Yep. We removed their, well, maybe not worth explaining everything, but he was ready the following year. And Texas had to get into... Quarterback run game. Quarterback run game, they had to get into five wide in order to finally, to find a linebacker to attack and coverage. They had some like weird reverse stuff in that game. And Texas ended up kind of leaning on them in the run game and, and, and, and pulling it out. But it was like, what was it, 16 to 13? Yep. I'll be mixing up with an ultimate Texas wrinkle that threw OU for a, a, a curve. The wishbone. Texas introduced that and won in 1969 by, I think, 10 points. And then in 70, I think they blew OU out. I mean, pretty badly. And Texas had an incredible team. So it's not like OU quit, but they combined an incredible team with intensity with this wrinkle that OU would not quite grasp. And as Texas fans, we've been on the other end of that. And that's how the, that's how the score gets out of hand in this rivalry. Talent advantage, wrinkle intensity, bake it all together. And one of the teams freaks out and losing their composure, which is what used to always happen in the Super Bowls. If, if you guys, Super Bowls are no longer like that, but it used to be one of the teams was typically better than the other and then had some other advantages. And then the other team would panic and get blown out. Doesn't happen anymore, but that, that is kind of the way it happens with that rivalry, meets intensity, meets wrinkle. Interestingly, though, that sort of happened in the day. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, true. But I will say, interestingly, OU in Texas, when one team innovates, the other either adjusts or is a fast follower. I mean, what I mean by that is, oh, God bless Daryl Royal. But being the old school coaching gentleman that he was, he told his coordinator to teach OU the wishbone, because that's what gentlemanly coaches did back in the day. If a coach asked you for help, you said, yes. And so, oh, you learned the wishbone, adopted it. And you know what they did? They plugged in better athletes than Texas had. And then use that to boat race us a couple of times before Texas then adjusted. And then you fought these incredible typical Texas OU games of that era, which was just incredibly physical knockdown drag out. Also, OU fans who may be watching, welcome. But you may not know this, and some Texas fans may not know this. I know during the Mac Brown era, you had the whole Texas is soft thing, which whether true or not was a deep OU belief that gave them confidence. They still have that. The baseline of Texas football was caveman physical football. Like the idea of saying Texas was soft about Texas teams in the 70s or early 80s was like, laughable, or even DKR teams. Like these guys were iron, like iron willed, I will run into the wall until the wall breaks. And I don't care that there's a door, taking the doors cowardly. So that's another aspect of this rivalry that I think if you don't have a historical understanding, old Texas OU was literally a fight in a parking lot. There was not a lot of nuance in a lot of these games. Even, I believe Bud Wilkinson was one of the first to build his teams by targeting working-class sons in like the oil fields. And DKR was his quarterback, right? And also, I think DKR played in the... Well, he played quarterback too, didn't he? He played in the secondary. I think that's where he was his best position. I don't remember. I think he believed he was an assistant there as well, right? Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's a no-you boy. Yeah. And then that's the exact, the approach that he brought to building Texas is rosters. Yeah. And then Barry Switzer was somehow a leading light on integration, right? And that led to Texas making that adjustment more recently and less significantly. Bryn Vinable's surprise Texas with the four down three high, third down defense in the last year's Red River shoot out and discombobulated viewers for a few series. And then now that's the base third down package for Texas a year later. That's exactly what we're talking about. So as much as both fan bases despise each other, as much as both programs dislike each other, they steal from each other all the time. And I mean, one of the great golden ages of OU football was built and promulgated on Texas' gentlemanly coaching staff teaching them the wishbone. And then OU took it and improved upon it, right? OU then, later under Mike Leach and under his successors introduced Texas to the idea of the spread offense, right? In a real way. Greg Davis obviously had some of those influences, but you could see its influence on Texas as with the Jordan Shipley four wide thing, right? We really embraced it and went from more of a pro set I-back team handing the ball off to Ricky Williams and Hodges Mitchell, right, with a full back. That went away Vince Young, the ultimate evolution of that. So I think you have to have some understanding broadly that these two programs are intertwined. So why did they go to the SEC together? For just this reason. These programs are, it's the Joker and Batman, right? Batman's like, "You're a psychopath and wants to kill me." And Joker's like, "I don't want to kill you. What would I do without you?" Right? He gives him meaning in his life, like tormenting this guy, right? And that's kind of how OU and Texas are. So in any parting thoughts on the uniqueness and intensity and wrinkles and all this that they go into this rivalry and this hatred. This is why the game is often just a slobber knocker even when one team is advantaged over the other. Let's end on this. Do you think this year, Oklahoma, will find something within themselves and measure up like Texas did in 2017. Texas was not a good team in 2017, but they just same-alinger ran the ball for 100 yards and they played good defense. It's been a couple other years like that. 2015 Texas somehow won this game. Well, 2015 is the parallel in the sense that Hawkins can be there to Rod Herd. Probably an upgraded version, but two weeks were they able to get enough Navy and Army tape to install a bunch of quarterback run game encounters and back field eye candy to occupy our linebackers, get a good playside double team, and see if you can grind on the Texas defense. And with the Texas defense consent to that, which is, well, they're not hitting big plays. We can endure this. They're not scoring. Hey, I think Ian and I are on the same page here. When you have certain matchups, kill the flowers before they bloom. Yes, we're putting it on the same page with this. That's right. So I think Texas has to bring it and if they can, I think eventually Texas is going to find what Venables is hiding, and I think what smart OU fans know Venables is hiding, which is subpar cornerback and subpar nickel play. The nickel play is not their fault. They lost a really good player and Dolby. cornerback I think is more their fault, even though they lost gentry. I don't think he was this massive upgrade, but eventually Sark is going to hunt those matchups out. The question is, can Venables, like last year, steal some possessions, steal the initiative, steal momentum, and make this a football game? And that's what OU has shown a knack for doing when they have the lesser team. Texas has also shown a knack for doing that. Texas have not had a good record over the last 11 years, Ian. They're three and eight, but eight of those losses or seven of the eight losses by a score or less, four of those games decided in the last play or the last 30 seconds of the football game. And I think people, even though you fans would admit most of those games, they had the superior team. And I think last year, whether they'd think that or not, I think you and I think Texas had the better team, but still came up short. So it's an interesting rivalry. There's not, I think it's uniqueness. There's just not anything really like it for the reasons we mentioned. So I'm always looking forward to it at the same time, a little nervous and sick to my stomach about it. Ian, what are your parting thoughts before you bid a due? I don't think Oklahoma is in a place on offense where they can, where they can measure up. I think they're too sick and too disorganized to put something together. Like we both have, we both have the same basic game plan on their behalf. Yeah. And then we're like, we'll see if PK just tries to rope-a-dope it and absorb punches, or if he just gets after it from the beginning and shuts it down. I don't know, we'll see. The fact that Nansen is around is helpful. The fact that they already showed the rope-a-dope strategy against Mississippi State makes me wonder if they were saving the aggressive strategy. But in either event, I just have the suspicion that Oklahoma is just not up for this. And I could work very dumb for thinking that. Well, look, prognosticators in the series often look foolish because we can't account for so many of the things we just covered. But I'll say this, it used to sort of be a given for me that OU would have a baseline of execution on the offense of wine. And that's not the case. I think even critical sewer fans understand that at a base level. And that's a dynamic we've not seen in a while because Beaten Bow has done a really good job. He's not done a good job the last couple of years. And this year, a lot of chickens came home to roost for them there. So we put the emphasis in the Hawkins, we put the emphasis on their receivers, not getting separation. We put the emphasis on their running backs, not having explosiveness. But I wonder if that O line is ultimately what does them in and encourages PK to freaking bring it from the opening bell. Yep. Yep. Well, with that encouraging confidence inspiring thought, we say goodbye. This has been the deep dive. Hey, go join inside Texas. We've got a flash sale going on promo code Hookum. You see the details there 50% off. And hey, if you love what Ian writes and his theorizing, which I do, you can go to America's war game on his sub stack. He has a really cool post up right now. In fact, no country for young quarterbacks. It's worth a read. And of course, if you like hearing my blathering and you want to hear me talking to other people, you can find me on everyone gets a trophy podcast. It's on Apple Spotify, et cetera. And that's Izzy, who is remaining and will always be the key mascot of this, of this deep dive endeavor. That's Ian Boyd. I'm Paul Wildington saying beat the hell out of OU. Hookum. Yes.
We constantly hear this is a special rivalry? But, what makes it the best in the country?