VIEWPOINT with Chuck Crismier
IF SELF IS KING...
A number of years ago, as I was leaving the Chicago O'Hare Airport, I came across a massive billboard and here's what it said. This is all that was on the billboard. Me, me, me. That's right, that's all it said. Me, me, me. And then I got to thinking about the Apostle Paul and what he said it is writing to his ministry upstart Timothy and he said, "In the last days it would be perilous times." And then he began to describe what those perilous times would look like. And every single thing that he did in describing those perilous times in his writing to Timothy had to do with the exaltation of self in so many different ways, complete exaltation of self. So I have a question for you today. Before we launch deeply into the deep here with another eternity, joining us here to discuss what this could possibly mean. If self is king, was Jesus crucified in vain? If self is king, was Jesus crucified in vain? You say, "Well, self is king. What do you mean by that?" Well, actually, self-ishness is basically the philosophy of the day. In fact, you could actually call it one of the great isms of our time, maybe the overarching ism of our time, self-ism. There is no mistake that we have what are called selfies. Selfies define the very essence and operational, shall we say, fact of how we see life. It's all about me. Well, isn't that what happened there in the Garden of Eden? Satan's deception was to somehow divert Adam and Eve's attention from their identity in God to creating their own identity in self. Remember what Satan said? What hath God said? And Eve responded and said, "Well, yeah, we're not supposed to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil for the day we eat there, we'll fully surely die." And Satan said, "Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Don't you understand why God said that?" In other words, he put a spin on what God said. Like a lot of lawyers out there will put spin on the words and Satan functioned like an anti-God lawyer. Half God said. And then how did Satan respond to Eve? You know what God really meant was that in the day you eat of that tree, you will not die. You're going to be just like God. You are going to have the ultimate exaltation of yourself as equal to God. And the rest is history. Everything that we deal with in our world today and as accelerating as you look at our time, accelerating exactly like the apostle Paul said it was going to be, defining the perilous times is the ultimate exaltation of self. And if that is true and self is king, was Jesus crucified in vain? That's the question before us here on Viewpoint today. That's the opening statement because two lawyers are addressing you here today. One on the one end of this broadcast, it just gave the introduction of the opening statement. And the other Martin Isles, who is joining us with his book, Who Am I? Solving the identity puzzle. Martin is good to have you on the program. "Good eye chock, it is good to be with you." All you have to do is have a couple of lawyers out there and do a sparring contest with the words and people can become very confused, can't they? Yes, I think that's a fair comment. But you and I, we're going to be different. We're going to be different. Yes, we're going to be different. I don't remember practice law anymore. We've run away from all that. Well, we're practicing the law of God, aren't we? Yeah, well, yeah, that's true. Well, you know, Martin, you're coming from Australia and you've got that additional little spin on the pronunciation or pronunciation of words. And I appreciate that. It brings some color to our program here today. But in this country, believe it or not, God has used lawyers in some of the most profound sense to actually anchor our country in the truth. Did you know that John Winthrop, a godly lawyer, brought over four boatloads of Puritans in 1630, penned a model of Christian charity, which was like a constitution for the Puritan colony. And some have said, historians have said, that it was the clearest expression of the American vision ever penned. That was a godly lawyer. And he spoke not only like a lawyer, but also as a prophet. And then we have a fellow by the name of Francis Scott Key, whose bridge was just knocked down because maybe America had become a group of selfies. I did a whole program on that yesterday. It's like a symbol for our country, much like the Titanic. And then we had Abraham Lincoln, who said this nation under God, he'll have a new birth of freedom that government of the people by the people and for the people should not perish from the earth. So God is able to use lawyers in spite of ourselves, isn't he? I think that he's exactly right. I know that he's right. I mean, lawyers get a bad reputation, but I think that anybody who honors God with their giftings can be used by God. Even lawyers. Isn't that amazing? Even Australian lawyers. Even Australian lawyers. All of my emphasis was convict. Yeah, well, it just shows you what God can do. It is no secret. The song said what God can do. Well, that's true. Now, the problem, what seems to be a secret is who are we? Who are we really? And that's what your book is about. It's amazing that a lawyer would write this book. Who am I solving the identity puzzle? But indeed, it is seemingly a puzzle. And I remember back in my days at Christian college, I took a psychology class. In fact, I was majoring in psychology until I came to the point where I discovered, you know what? This is all theory. It's just all theory. And so I left and actually because of that, I became a lawyer. But in any event, during that psychological training, I learned some things about a fellow by the name of Abraham Maslow and a fellow by the name of Carl Rogers and some of these guys who actually were talking about self actualization, which is kind of a psychological way of saying, you can lift yourself by your own bootstraps and become whatever you want to be. So we're living in that kind of a world, a psychologized world in which even one of the most, the foremost pastors of our time that built the Christopher Cathedral that had thousands and thousands of thousands of pastors across the country and around the world that he mentored, writing a book called Self-Esteem. In fact, he became, shall we say, the ultimate promoter of the self-esteem movement in our time? And he said, you know what? If you tell people that they're sinners, you're abusing them because all they really need is more self-esteem. I guess they didn't need Jesus anymore. They certainly didn't need the crucifixion or the resurrection. All they needed was self-esteem. So you're going to help us get out of that mess, the self-esteem mess will we get back. You'll listen to the appointment, my friends. Who am I anywhere? Once upon a time, children could pray and read their Bibles in school. Divorces were practically unknown as was child abuse. In our once great America, virginity and chastity were popular virtues and homosexuality was an abomination. So what happened in just one generation? Hi, I'm Chuck Chris Myer. I urge you to join me daily on viewpoint where we discuss the most challenging issues touching our hearts and homes. Could America's moral slide relate to the fourth commandment? Listen to viewpoint on this radio station or anytime at saveus.org. You know, my friends, we have an identity crisis in this country. We have an identity crisis individually of an identity crisis as a country. In fact, the whole world has an identity crisis right now. And our special guest, Martin Iles, formally practicing law, as yours truly, has written a book called Who Am I? Solving the Identity Puzzle. Why have you chosen to write this particular book, Martin? I chose to write a Chuck for the reason that you have just so articulately described. You mentioned that billboard you saw at Chicago O'Hare Airport that said me, me, me. And that's the catch cry of the age. You know, if people just listen and look, just in the next 48 hours of their life, they will find examples like that in their own lives. They will hear motivational speakers saying to young people, the secret to success is to believe in yourself. They'll say that the good life is to be your best self. They will see marketing like self. You mentioned self-actualization. And even on the conservative side now, with guys like for all of his benefit, all the white things he says, but a guy like Jordan Peterson will give you a self-authoring workshop. It's absolutely everywhere. And then things like you're worth it. You know, love yourself and blah, blah, blah, all this stuff, the culture we live in. It's a really narcissistic culture. Isn't it interesting that the word narcissism is coming up more and more? It's amazing. And maybe it's identifying the key characteristic of our culture, but it's not being written from a biblical viewpoint. Even the observation of narcissism is, shall we say, anchored in self-ism? Well, exactly. And narcissism, I mean, even professionals in the psychology world are telling us that the issue of narcissism has never been worse. And you sit there and think, well, I wonder why that would be with a culture like this. And I was doing a lot of work in Australia before moving to the United States with young people sort of in their teenage years. And I realized that this culture is just rubbing off on them in a big way. It's becoming a whole foundation of their world view, their view of life. You know, they're told that it's all about their identity. It's about their true selves. It starts with asking that big question, who am I? And of course, there is an answer to that question, which is good. But the problem is that in the narcissistic culture, in the self-driven culture, you ask that, who am I question? And your brain wants to do something straight away. It wants you to look at yourself, look within, look at your heart, come up with who you think you are, what you feel like and your subjective sense of your identity. So it's the lordship of feelings then. Feelings have become lord and faith has taken short shrift. And where where the world are you going to go? How are you going to somehow convince people that they need a life in Christ when the whole concept of it is so virtually anathema to the very spirit of the culture? Well, I mean, you mentioned that feelings become lord and that's exactly what happens. I mean, it's what enables people to look at the world and, you know, on the male female issue, they can look at the fact that, you know, there's males and females, biological sex and all that and they can say, so what? Because I feel, I feel something and that's more valid than reality itself, that's more valid than creation itself. It comes down to my subjective sense of who I am. That's the ultimate thing, which is supreme overall. Well, it calls me to remember and so a little song that kids used to sing. I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel like the morning star. I feel, I feel, I feel, I feel like the morning star. Well, if you feel like the morning star, does that make you the morning star? Exactly. I mean, the absurdity of it all, I feel like I should be resting tonight on my ceiling. Okay. And here's the tragic side of it. I mean, there's sort of like a ridiculous side to this whole thing, but the tragic side, which concerns me so much, is that when you trap people, particularly young people, in themselves, in their identity, and it's all up to what comes out of your own heart, that's what defines you. The question I want to ask straight away to find out whether that's good advice is a really basic question. It's like, okay, so everything comes back to the self. Who you are is about yourself, how to live, it's about fulfilling yourself. Your politics, your political worldview, it's about identity politics. So who you are, then goes out into political world as well. The question I want to ask is, all right, self, okay, is that good or is that bad? Is self a good thing or is self a bad thing? Because if self is good, then it's a great foundation. If self is bad, then it's not a great foundation. Well, let's put it this way. If self was so good, then why did Jesus have to die? Exactly. In fact, if self was so good, why did Jesus have to come into the earth as a representation of the Father in the fullness of time to deliver us from ourselves? Yeah, and this is why Jesus did in Mark's Gospel, chapter 7. He said it's actually the things which flow out of the heart of man, which defile him. And then he lists about 14 things, you know, come into the earth, he lists the feet, he lists pride, and you think we'll pride, you know. Well, wait a minute. I thought the pride was a good thing these days. We even have flags to wave and acknowledge the greatness of pride. Well, that's what the culture's done. Someone came out with a flag that actually said pride on it and started waving it around. And the culture went, oh, that's a good idea. And you think, hang on, wait, no, since when did pride become a good idea, since when did that become a life philosophy, since when did pride, a terrible awful thing in the sin and, you know, narcissism is basically pride. Since when was that something that we were to hold up as good branding and good marketing and life advice? This is how far we've come. And Jesus says pride's in the heart, he's accepted in the heart, defeated in the heart, adultery's in the heart, slander is in the heart, covetousness is in the heart, he lists about 14. Well, he saw that envy was in the heart, pride and envy were in the heart of Satan himself, who was formerly called Lucifer, the worship, the key, most beautiful angel of created beings. And he was cast out precisely because his heart was envious and selfish with pride. And he wasted no time spreading it around. As you mentioned at the start, he went straight down into the garden, and he went to Eve, and he said, you can be as God, you know? He gave her the offer of pride, and he gave her, you know, what he coveted and craved. And it's been the human story ever since. Yeah, so my truth is not your truth, and we can define our own truth, and that is rooted in the ultimate expression of pride, the very thing that caused Satan to be cast out of the Mount of God in heaven. Yeah, and that phrase, my truth, is to take how you feel and make it supreme. I mean, as if we are the kind of creature that can author truth, like, I mean, God actually authors truth, he made all things, he made reality, we can't create truth, we can only submit to truth or rebel again, and this is the sadness of the whole situation. And I asked before, is the self good or bad? Well, Jesus warned us very seriously about the state of the self, the fact that actually if you lock someone up to their heart and their feelings and their subjective impulses, you're going to lock them into something that's quite sinful, and they're going to be trapped in their lusts, they're going to be trapped in their failures, they're going to be trapped in the deceitfulness of the human heart, and so you're only going to trap them in sin, which is self destructive, but it is also something that we would expect to see therefore on the rise in the culture. And you say, well, this pride on the rise in the culture, well, we've just talked about that. Of course it is, it's now a marketing slogan, is adultery and sexual immorality on the rise in the culture. Well, I don't even need to go there, of course it is, you know, is the deceit on the rise in the culture. And well, the statistics show us that only about a third of American young people say that it's always morally wrong to lie, and so you go, well, okay, so we've got a lying problem among young people in the culture, at least probably at large, it's theft on the rise in the culture. Well, we know in some states it's now legal to steal $950 worth of stuff, and it's all fine, but legal, you don't get charged for it. That's because the culture says it's good for yourself. You really needed that, and you should be able to claim that for yourself. And so no matter where you look, the self becomes Lord. And if the self is Lord, then how can Jesus possibly be king? And so if the self is king then was Jesus crucified in vain, apparently so. Well, that's one of the points that I'm always making to people when I speak on this subject, I say, well, you're trapping people in thin, but you know, the other problem is that you're making your building a philosophy of life for a young person that says, well, what's the point of Jesus? What's the point of the cross? Why would there be a cross at all? I mean, I'm not bad. I mean, I just need to believe in myself and be my best self. No, wait a minute. You use the word belief. Martin, if you've been in any furniture stores, decor shops or anything, home goods or anything like this, if you go in there, guess what you're going to find. You're going to find little plaques that say, believe. That's all they say, believe, believe, believe, believe. What are they talking about? What they really mean by implication is believe in yourself. Oh, absolutely. Believe, believe in whatever you want to believe in this modern day and age is believe in me. Okay. Well, Jesus said, if you believe in me, then you're going to have salvation. But Satan says, no, you need to believe in yourself, which is a representation of Satan's self. And it's not going to lead to a very pleasant destination. So your book, who am I solving the identity puzzle? $20 is going to put this hardbound book in your hands, friends. And we haven't even really, we're discussing in a broader sense this issue of self. And in the next half of the program, we're going to be talking about how we solve this identity puzzle about the self. But the book is called, who am I solving the identity puzzle? $20 will put the book in your hands. It's on our website, save us dot org that save us dot org. You can call us at 1 800 save USA, 1 800 save USA, or you can write to us at save America ministries, PO box 70879 Richmond, Virginia, two, three, two, five, five, writing a check at $5 for postage and handling. All right, the identity puzzle, you say there's there are eight pieces in the puzzle. Can you distill those for us quickly? Well, they start with the premise that is not about my truth. It's about the reality that there is truth from outside of me that defines what and who I am, because I didn't create myself. God created me. So his truth is the thing that matters. We need to look to him, find out what he has done. And so all these pieces come from God's creation work that we are made to image God, that we are made with the breath of life, that we were made to have dominion over the earth, that we were made male and female. And that's a big one in the identity at the moment. And all of these pieces of the puzzle start to teach us that there are things which we are not Lord of. They don't come from out of us. They come from outside of us, and God has done these things. And they define us and it's up to us to live in submission to them. But then of course, the last two pieces, the puzzle revealed two more truths, which is that we are first of all fallen, all the things we were made for. We fall short off, like imaging God and all that kind of thing and male and female even these days, there's all the terrible mess. And all the things we were made for, we were made great, but we fell in sin. And therefore, we need the final piece, the puzzle, which is restoration. And of course, it is Jesus Christ, who is the true image of God in human flesh, who has all the resources we need to restore us to what we were made to be. All right, so the real implication of this in this season as we're approaching the crucifixion, and then the resurrection is, well, the self has to be crucified. The self has to be crucified in order for us to live in Christ. Is that really the ultimate? That's the ultimate. The ultimate is stop looking at yourself, start looking at Jesus Christ. So if we really looked at ourselves, we would see ourselves the way God sees us. Yes, we would. And that's not a pretty picture. Well, exactly. That is, that we are full and a lot of things. Oh, God must see me really nicely. You go, well, not really, no. You sort of need Jesus Christ before God sees you in a better light. So the whole self-esteem message is just the contra of everything that the Bible talks about. And that is, we don't want to see ourselves the way we really are. We just want to see ourselves in a better way. So we're going to conjure up a new image of ourselves to make us feel better, rather than the biblical image that would cause us to be better. Yeah, it is the, I call it the anti-gospel. It's the opposite of the gospel. Exactly. It is said, blessed are the poor in spirit. There is the kingdom of heaven, not those that are full of themselves, but those that know their self-poverty. That's the sign of God working on a life to say that actually in yourself, you don't have all that it takes. You don't have all that is good. In yourself, you've got sin, in yourself, you lack in yourself, you are fallen, and it is Christ. It is Him alone who has the resources to restore you to what you were meant to be, and God's image. It used to be that one would cry. In fact, Jesus told about a man who was not a Pharisee. He was just a regular Jewish person, and he was pounding it, just saying, "Woe is me, for I am undone. I'm a sinner." And then the Pharisee said, "Hey, I'm so glad I'm not like other men." He was full of self-esteem. God said, "You're not even going to make it into the kingdom. We'll be right back." There is so much more about Chuck Chris Meyer and Save America Ministries. On our website, SaveUS.org. For example, under the marriage section, God has marriage on His mind. Chuck has some great resources to strengthen your marriage. First off, a fact sheet on the state of the marital union, a fact sheet on the state of ministry, marriage, and morals, SaveUS.org. Marriage, divorce, and remarriage. What does the Bible really teach about this? Find all of this at SaveUS.org. Also, a letter to pastors, the Hosea project, SaveUS.org. And many more resources to strengthen your marriage. It's all on Chuck's website, SaveUS.org. Again, you can listen to Chuck's viewpoint broadcast live and archive, Save America Ministries website at SaveUS.org. Can God redeem a lawyer? Apparently he can. He redeemed a fellow by the name of John Winthrop there in 1630. The brought a four-vote loads of Puritans over here, and he gave us the model of Christian charity. Apparently he could redeem Francis Scott Key, whose bridge was just knocked down, maybe because of self-ishness about those who are actually supposed to be running that vessel. We're learning more and more about that. But can God redeem America? Is it possible that God could redeem America? And how could God redeem America if we refuse to go back to an understanding of who we were before Christ and decide we don't need Christ anymore? We just need him as a mascot rather than as the master. All we need is more self-actualization and more self-esteem. Our guest today, Martin Iles, who is a lawyer, but he's not practicing law, well, at least not in the usual sense. He left his native Australia and has come to America, and what are you doing here in America, Martin? Are you teaching Australian English? I'm trying to, but people are not really catching on. It's hard to break through on that one. Yeah, really. I'm the executive. They call it the Executive CEO of Anthes and Genesis. That's because we have a co-CEO arrangement at the moment. People will know of Ken Ham, the founder CEO now, and they've brought me in as part of a plan to ensure that there's some leadership around as Ken transitions into sort of a little less responsibility for now, but you'll still be around for sure to be speaking and to be giving a broad oversight of things that are going on here. Interesting. Yeah, but there's a co-CEO arrangement at the moment, and that's why I've been brought in from Australia, from my legal work and various other ministries over there. That is fascinating. We've had Ken many times on this program, and then also many of your fellow answers in Genesis representatives here on this program, all with great things to say, positions to take, and of course, you're doing that. You also are doing what? Some television programs? YouTube? What are you doing? Yeah, so I create content online. I'm on all the platforms. I used to have a program called the Truth Offit when I was in Australia, which was analyzing current events with a biblical worldview. I now have one called Truth In Ten, in which I apply Genesis at the moment, but scripture to the current cultural, social debates of the day, the real flashpoint issues between Christianity and the culture, like the thing we're talking about today, which is identity. That's a big one. But a whole lot of other stuff as well, you know, everything from the race issues through to climate change, through to post-modern stuff like my truth and your truth and all that sort of thing. Well, how about this living in Babylon program? What's that about? Oh, yeah, that's right. So there's also, you know, that's the one I forgot, living in Babylon. So living in Babylon is really all about the reality that we're facing across the West, which is that Christians increasingly are finding themselves in a post-Christian culture, culture that is really quite pagan in its foundations of culture, which is increasingly secular in its foundations, a culture which is just different, which is changing. You know, some people call it woke. There's a big wave of cultural change that's sweeping across the West. The wake of woke is all about identity. It's all about self-identity. It's all about who am I redefined by myself, not redefined by God? Yeah, and woke really is an attack on so much of what God has done. It's an attack on creation foundations. It's an attack on the fact that God made us male and female. It's an attack on the fact that God made male and female for each other in marriage. It's an attack on the fact that God made families, man, woman married with children. It's an attack on the fact that God made one human race with a great equality in Jesus Christ that amplifies racial differences instead. It's an attack on the fact that God made human beings for dominion over the planet, not the planet to have dominion over human beings. It's an attack on the fact that God created all reality and all truth. We come up with this ridiculous phrase, "My truth is if we are God now and we can make the truth." You know, woke really is a terrible attack on God's creation foundations and border for the world. It's an attack on God himself. It is. An attack on the creator is exactly what it is. You attack the creation, you attack the creator. All right, let's talk about that for a moment. Yeah, let's talk about that for a moment. There is a subject that starts with E, evolution. Yeah. And we have three popes in a row who declared that evolution was in fact reality and the truth. Even Pat Robertson came out and said that you're crazy if you don't believe in evolution. So how are we to understand this when the very concept of evolution itself defies the very creation, ordinance of God that he created, he created man in his image, in the image of God created either. Well, you know, evolution really was people's excuse to deny the fact that creation proves the existence of a creator. Romans 1 says that God is evident ever since the creation of the world in things that have been made. Therefore, everybody is without excuse. People used to look at creation and say, "Wow, look at what God has done." But the theory of evolution was really the first step in undermining that and saying, "No, no, no, no. God didn't do this. This was a chance random process. It was genetic mutation. This was something else." And so people started to say, "God isn't the answer. Science is the answer." Oh, so that leads us to transhumanism. Isn't transhumanism the ultimate exaltation of self to become God? I mean, in their own words, in my latest book, Messiah Unveiling the Mystery of the Ages, we have an entire chapter about scientific messianism or messianism. And science is dedicated to declaring ourselves God. We are becoming God. In fact, let me share something with you. It was about 20 years ago. I was falling across the country in a layover in Los Angeles. And sitting across from me was a man. We had a little chat together. He identified himself as an international engineer from the Sony Corporation. And so he was really in quite a braggadocia mode concerning science and wanted to tell us, this was about 20 years ago, he said, "The time is coming when we will not have telephones anymore as we know it. They'll all be implants." And then as he's talking about all these different developments, he made this statement, Martin. He said, "And the time is coming when we will be God." That's what he said. "The time is coming when we will be God." Well, that's exactly what Kurzweil is saying. This is exactly what the transhumanists are saying. And it's coming in various forms. This is the ultimate exaltation of self, isn't it? Exactly. I mean, you mentioned transhumanism. It's the idea that humans can perfect humans. We don't need God to perfect us. We don't need Jesus. Of course not, because we evolved to the first place. So we're just in a continually evolving state, and we're reaching what is called global consciousness. We are all becoming Christ in ourselves. Yep. And so where we are now is full blown self worship. We are worshiping and serving the creature rather than the creator of Romans, chapter 1 verse 25. And that's why identity is the issue of the day, because it's all about bringing the self out into the most sacred and highest thing and making it the guiding staff for our lives and making ourselves as gods. And of course, this is an attack on God the creator as well, because what we find in the Bible is that God made human beings, not as gods, but he made us from the dust. In other words, he made us as part of the stuff of creation. We're creatures. We're not gods. We don't have this kind of power. No, wait a minute. That's quite a confession for a lawyer to make from Australia. Took where made from the dust. Yeah, exactly. It's a humbling. It's a humbling truth, isn't it? Well, it very is very humbling. So how can we dust creatures feel so confident that we can exalt ourselves to become God? Yeah, you know, I don't think we are that confident underneath it all. We pretend that we are. You know, we go out there and we wave our pride banners and say, "We are the greatest thing." But it's interesting. I look at the way that cancel culture is so, you know, it betrays insecurity. When you go out there and you say, "Well, hang on a second. Isn't it true that everyone's male or female? Isn't it true that God made two genders? Or isn't it true that, you know, you attack some point that they, or you undermine some point that they must cling on to exalt themselves?" And they get very angry very quickly. And the cancel culture weapon comes out and they try and destroy you and they try and get rid of your job. They try and attack and they try and undermine. And that betrays deep insecurity, I think. Well, it sure does. In fact, up on the Northern border, we have another country that speaks another variety of English called Canada and they have just dismissed a rather revered sociology professor who had the temerity to say that men and women are different and that there's male and female and they summarily dismissed her. This was on the authority of government to dismiss her. So you've got the same spirit going on down there down under in Australia, I think, don't you? Definitely. Oh, definitely. I mean, it's just why we started a religious liberty law firm because people were getting canceled. They were losing their jobs for posting Bible verses. They were losing professional accreditations for believing that God is the creator of human beings and that he has made men and women different and all these other things. We had that kind of handful culture still do very strong in Australia and I know it's in places in America, too. Oh, it's everywhere. It reminds me of Babel, though the Tower of Babel is the Americans, the Tower of Babel, where they wanted to make themselves, like, exalt themselves in pride. They said, come, let us make a name for ourselves. Let us believe in ourselves. And they did it because then it shows that they're kind of scared about it because they're doing it. They say, lest we be scattered abroad across the face of the earth, lest we become vulnerable and they're kind of fearful. And that's really what's going on. There's an insecurity underneath all of this. And I think that's why we have such an epidemic these days of sort of anxiety disorders and depression and so forth. I think people, something deep within them is witnessing to them that they're not God's. They're getting too big for their boots. They don't have this kind of power. They can't bore the truth. They can't perfect themselves. It's not all about them. And there's real insecurity that lurks deep within, especially the hearts of young people these days. Yeah, well, you got that right. You say at the end of your book regarding the identity question, who am I? Isn't the relevant question, the real question, who is God? Let's talk about that when we get back. This is viewpoint trails. The book, who am I? $20 on the website, Zavos.org, solving the identity puzzle. Have you ever considered what the early church was like? Many people are developing a heart longing for a greater fulfillment in our practices as Christians. A recent study showed 53,000 people a week are leaving the back door of America's churches in frustration. What is going on? Why has there not been even a 1% gain among followers of Christ in the last 25 years? Could it be that God is seeking to restore first century Christianity for the 21st century? Jesus said, "I'll build my church." Is Christ by His Spirit stirring to prepare the church for the 21st century? The early church prayed together and broke bread from house to house. They were family, and it was said by all who observed, "Behold how they love one another." Incredible. But the same can be found right now. Go to zavos.org and click sell church. We can revive first century Christianity for the 21st century. It's about people, not programs. It's about the body, not a building. That's zavos.org. Click sell church. It's such a privilege to be able to come before you day after day now for almost 29 years, next about a month from now to the 29 years, confronting the deepest issues of America's heart and home from God's eternal perspective. If we want to see this country change, it's got to happen in the hearts of the people. It's not going to happen by elections alone. Yes, we should be involved in elections. Yes, we should do our best as Christian representatives to not do that is to really, well, I don't want to put it the way I'm really thinking about it. So don't allow that thinking to come. It's very selfish thinking. We're in a country where we have the privilege of voting. We have the privilege of representing the kingdom of God, as best we understand it, trying to listen to the Holy Spirit to make choices concerning our leaders. And as the first Supreme Court justice of our country said, we should seek to find true Christians as our leaders. That's what he said, the first Supreme Court justice of the country. Well, that ties us together, Martin. You and me as lawyers, wouldn't it be great if we had true Christian Supreme Court justices? In fact, justice is in all of our courts. Yeah, amen. I believe that 100%. I mean, you were exactly right. The change will come when people's hearts are changed. And wouldn't it be great to see the heart changed of all the Supreme Court justices as well, and all the politicians? Wouldn't that bring some good times to America? You know, people will say to me, well, why did you choose the title Save America Ministries? And the reason is because the first three words of our Constitution are we the people. America, fundamentally, is not a political institution. It's not a corporate institution at its root. It's a spiritual institution. That's how it started, and that is the thread that has woven through our entire history. And that's why the attacks are so great to destroy that thread and to change the identity of the country. So Save America Ministries is about looking at we the people and helping the people to understand the God that made and preserved as a nation. Right there out of Francis Scott Key's national anthem, "In God we trust, praise the Lord, the God who have made and preserved us a nation." Then conquer, we must, when our cause it is just, and this be our motto, in God is our trust. Isn't that interesting? It doesn't say in self is our trust. It doesn't say in democracy is our trust. It says in God is our trust. Maybe we've gotten, we've turned the whole government into a selfie. In God we trust. That's what's on the license plate as I drive around. We don't have that in Australia, but you have it here. Good advice that a lot of people need these days. Well, it is. All right, so I want to, this program is not an evangelistic program. This program is primarily a discipling program, wooing, warning, discipling, preparing the way of the Lord for history's final hour. First to Americans, American Christians, and then across the world, we now, the last I heard, we were heard in 180 countries. So that having been said, the question is, how does this identity issue impact those who are listening to us today, who claim to be followers of Jesus Christ, yet are living in this selfie culture? And what role do the pastors have to play in the, shall we say, almost complicity of turning the church into another arm of the self-culture? Well, we all need to change our perspective, because I think a culture like this rubs off on all of us, even if it's only in very subtle ways, where we start to look in at ourselves, where we start to please ourselves, live for ourselves, and where we start to ignore truth and ignore scripture, because we feel and we want and we exalt our feelings and our wants. It's a change of perspective that's needed. And the point I make in the book is that when God speaks to us, the perspective from which he starts is the perspective we need to start from. And he says, in the beginning God created not in the beginning man in the beginning God, or even in the beginning self, in the beginning God. And that's why the prophets say the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the beginning of knowledge. Because if you want to know things and then if you want to know how to live, which is wisdom, you need to start with God and honor what he's done. God has created. It's interesting, Martin, that you should bring up that phrase, the fear of the Lord, because that used to be the concept of a God-fearing man, used to be the most common phrase used to identify a man who could be trusted, whose word was his bond, who was dependable in this country. But for the past 30 to 40 years, you could almost never hear that phrase anymore. It's almost completely gone away with the tragic because it is the fear of God that is what we need. We need to look to him and what he's done and honor it. And that's the change of perspective that we all need, so that we stop rebelling against God's word. And you know, the point that we need to understand in relation to ourselves is first of all, God has made us, so there's truth from outside of us that defines who we are. And then we need to find out what God has made us for. He's made us to image him, to image his holiness and his righteousness and his goodness in the world. He's made us from dust, to be creatures, not to compete with him for his authority, not to attack the Creator, but submit to the Creator. And he's... Even lawyers, right? Well, exactly. Even lawyers. And you were saying before, "Can God save a lawyer?" I'm very glad he can. That's our only hope, isn't it? That's our only hope. That's our only hope. Well, you know what? The Bible says that Jesus Christ is going to be the ultimate lawyer. A lawyer is also called an advocate. We have an advocate that with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous. And if we're made in his image, then we're not going to be exalting our image. And maybe that's the reason why the Apostle Paul said, "I am crucified with Christ. Nevertheless, I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. And the life that I now live, I live for the glory of the Son of God." So this whole idea, even as we're on the edge of some people would call this good Friday coming up, I think we actually miss the mark. It should be good Wednesday because Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, not on Friday. But nevertheless, that's a subject for another day. But the reality is, we're in this season and people are celebrating Easter. They're celebrating the resurrection. They're celebrating the crucifixion. But somehow, I think we have really undermined the very essence of what that crucifixion was about. And that is, ultimately, if Jesus took upon himself all of our sin, that sin was ultimately rooted in two words, self and pride. Was it not? Absolutely. They say, "Be your best self." Well, Jesus died for yourself. You know, yourself is what put Christ on the cross. Exactly. It's not about being your best self. It's about dying to yourself. It's about the death of self, but it's about the life of Christ that can be yours. You need to replace yourself with the Spirit of God. Christ, in you is the hope of glory, not your exalt, exalt, itself. Exactly. Well, how is this message received down there in the down underworld of Australia that was made up initially of convicts? Well, it's received surprisingly well. You know, Australia is much more advanced in sort of the post-Christian culture than America on the whole. It's a very, very, very, very, very post-Christian country, very little evidence of Christianity anywhere at all. And what I'm finding is that amongst young people, Generation Z, or we would say Generation Z, these young folks, they've grown up like Daniel in Babylon. They've been thrown out into this just anti-Christian world, and they're forced to take their faith really seriously because, you know, to call yourself a Christian, the stakes are high in that country. You can do a good job. It's pretty bad. And you might even experience some real biblically oriented persecution. Well, exactly. I mean, this is the thing. You might actually experience some negativity. You might actually get some reproach, or you might actually know the truth of what the Apostle Paul said that all who seek to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. And you've got to come to terms with that. And these young people, they're craving truth. They're really on fire. They're really serious. And they know that this gospel of self, this false gospel, this anti-gospel is empty. They know that it traps them in their sin. They know that it traps them in something that is subjective and unreliable. They're feeling so if they know that it's just create anxiety and depression, they know that it's not the answer. And they're just craving solid foundation. They want people to tell them what is true, what is real, what's the foundation I can build my life on. And so the message is really, really well received, particularly among the younger generation in Australia who are craving solid foundation. Well, that's good to know. In this country, for the past 10 years, George Barna has said that, according to his studies, that among professing Christian young people, only 20% of them believe that Jesus Christ is the only way, the only way, the only truth, the only life. That means that 80% of them do not, which means they've adopted a selfie world in which there are many ways that you can choose whichever way it is that you're all going to go to heaven. Well, I would just say that that confusion that that creates, choosing whatever you want and never being sure about the outcomes, never having any confidence in truth, that's the world that these young people are growing up in. That has a, you know, it has a sell-by date on it. There's a point comes in a young person's life where they go, "You know what? This is not cutting it. I don't feel good about this. This is not giving me what I need." And they start hungering for something more. And I fully expect some of that to be happening in America around about now, which is next generation. That'd be wonderful. You know, Martin, I think you and I could sit down and have a great lunch discussion together. I would really enjoy that. And it might be that just a little bit of your accent would filter down upon and make me more relevant here to the world. So in any event, I'm so grateful that you've joined us here on Viewpoint. Would you just take 60 seconds and speak to pastors? What would you say to pastors? Because in many respects, they're just not courageous enough to really preach the true gospel because they're afraid of offending people. Speak to pastors. I would say the Word of God does not return void. And so you can have total confidence in the uncompromised, the unapologetic, the absolutely clear truth of God from His Word. And if that confronts and contradicts and attacks and condemns the selfie culture and all this identity stuff, you can still have confidence in saying it. You can have confidence in declaring it because it does not return void. It might harden. People's hearts might be hardened against it. It will have that effect. But I'm here to tell you that amidst all the angry people, there'll be those whose hearts are softened and they listen and they receive it. And it's those people to whom God has sent you to tell the truth so that they can be reached. Absolutely. And I would say to pastors, you can have confidence in God's Word and you can show conviction in it. No matter how opposed to this culture it is, it will have an effect. Absolutely. We've got to have that confidence and that trust. The famous philosopher Gady once said courage lost all lost. And I think that's what we all needed a day like this, don't we? Absolutely 100%. All right. The book friends, who am I solving the identity puzzle? And as you go through this book, it's so well laid out. Maybe only a lawyer could have done this. But I think the Lord for Martin, Martin Isles and his representation, I think you have heard the passion of his own mind and heart and it's encouraging to all of us. And I think this book will be helpful. It might even be helpful for not only you, but if you have parents and you have children, you have teenagers, you have college students, grandparents, I think it'd be very helpful all the way around. Who am I? A $20 book on our website, save us.org. Call us 1-800-SAVE-USA, write to us at Save America Ministries, P.O. Box 70879, Richmond, Virginia 23255, writing a check at $5 for postage and handling. God wants us to find our identity in Him. So, if self is king, was Jesus crucified in vain? We've got to answer that question for ourselves. Thanks for joining us. Become a partner, friend. Send your gifts on faith to save America Ministries. Do it today, and God will be worthy. You've been listening to Viewpoint with Chuck Chrismeyer. Viewpoint is supported by the faithful gifts of our listeners. Let me urge you to become a partner with Chuck as a voice to the church, declaring vision for the nation. Join us again next time on Viewpoint as we confront the issues of America's heart and home. [end] [BLANK_AUDIO]