Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard

First Down with Bennie Fowler: Lions' Jared Goff, Eagles' Saquon Barkley in NFL MVP conversation

Duration:: 46m
Broadcast on:: 05 Nov 2024
Audio Format:: other

Super Bowl 50 champion Bennie Fowler has Lions quarterback Jared Goff and Eagles running back Saquon Barkley in his top 5 MVP candidates after Week 9 of the NFL season. Fowler and Leonard cover Dennis Allen's Saints firing, pick which NFL coach will be next and talk some NFL trade deadline @Bleav. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 Coffee is a specialty coffee concentrate that's perfect when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. It takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious Estate 98 iced or hot coffee, it’s great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order.

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First down with Benny Fowler, week nine edition, where a Super Bowl champion former NFL wide receiver joins us to talk about the action around the league. We'll talk game results, we'll talk standings, a black Monday feel around the league with coach firings, and also the NFL trade deadline activity happening as we speak. We will get to all of that first. Want to tell you about our sponsors brought to you here by my bookie. My bookie is rolling out the red carpet for sports betters in its 10th year anniversary. If you want to make this football season a winning season, you're going to do it with my bookie. Use the promo code PATTS picks at the link in all my social media profiles, and you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more, all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip, my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere. Also brought to you here by boom chaga mushroom super drink. 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It takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced or hot coffee. It's great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to a state 98 dot com backslash talking ball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order. And now here on the believe network on talking ball with pat Leonard, it's first down with Benny Fowler week nine edition. All right. Welcome to another episode of first down with Benny Fowler week nine edition here on talking ball with pat Leonard Benny, a little bit of a black Monday feel to this week with Dennis Allen getting fired in New Orleans. But kind of want to open the floor to you today because there's there's a lot to talk about. There's the coaches and who's on the hot seat. There's NFL trade deadline activity going and we kind of have the standing shaking out even more obviously on who are frauds and who deserve the law. But what's on your mind to kick us off here? Yeah, it is a little bit of a black Monday for the Saints. I mean, starting off to an oh, I think winning their first two games by 30 points and then losing seven straight will definitely get you fired. I think, you know, I played on a team like that. And I think we started four and one or three and one my last year in Denver 2017 got off to a great start. We beat the charges at home beat the Cowboys loss of the bills and then we beat the Raiders at home and then we lost eight straight. So something has to change. And I think we fired the offensive coordinator. We fired Mike McCoy at the time and, you know, I think the upstairs management is thinking we need it. We need to shake up. We need to change, you know, losing eight straight is unacceptable in the NFL, especially when you have the amount of talent that the Saints have. So that is why the head coach gets fired and, you know, they'll be they might be selling today. We'll see. We'll see if they sell during the trade deadline, but yeah, it got ugly then it got ugly quick and you know, they had some injuries too. So it's just a tough situation for them to be in. But yeah, it's definitely a little bit of a black Monday feel for some of these teams. I don't know if Doug Peterson, if he's the next one in terms of Jacksonville and the losses they've been taking, I'm trying to think of who else is, isn't doing well, but yeah. Well, yeah, no, let's go right there because I was actually, my next question was going to be who's next in your mind. So I had made a list. Doug Peterson, the Jacksonville Jaguars, Mike McCarthy and Dallas, Dave Canales, Carolina, even though they just won a game. Findable New York, Antonio Pierce with the Raiders and maybe, you know, I don't know about this, but maybe a Kevin Stefanski in Cleveland, if that goes the other way, like this week did, who would you look at in that group and say, you know, this guy's going to be next? If I'm putting coaches on the hot seat out of those out of that group, I'd probably put Doug Peterson and then Mike McCarthy. I think Mike McCarthy might be saved just because now Dak is going to be out for the next call it two to four weeks with injury, C.E. Lam gets hurt and this team just isn't really good. So I don't think he'll get fired anymore. But Doug Peterson, definitely on the hot seat, you know, Trevor Lawrence signs a huge extension. You know, you had some promise based off of the way things went last year and now, you know, things are just going south and you know, you had a lot of hopes and expectations coming into the season. And now it's, you know, the season is down the drain and, you know, players are packing up. They're, you know, shipping their car. So. Well, that's in Vegas too. So we see Luke gets you the offensive coordinator and several members of the offensive staff get fired there. Is this a situation where, you know, that's like a last ditch effort? And you think at the end of this, they're going to have to reset in Vegas with the Raiders as well. Obviously they traded Devonta Adams already. They still have Max Crosby there, but kind of kind of a bare bones operation going on there and looking like, you know, they fired one side of the ball's coaching staff, but I mean, it's not like the defense is holding up its end of the bargain either. It just feels like it's running its course there. Yeah, I don't know what the, what the Raiders are doing over there. I think it's a tough situation, obviously for those two coaches to get fired on the offensive staff, you know, their position groups have let them down tremendously. So right. To be honest, what, what are they trying to do and how are they going to salvage the rest of the season? I think it's how Antonio Pierce is thinking. I think one of the tough things when you, when you step into a situation like Antonio Pierce did as the interim head coach last year, you have the momentum, you can galvanize the locker room and you can be, and you can say, Hey, you know, that other guy was the problem. Let's galvanize. Let's, let's, let's rally together and let's finish this season off strong. But that does not carry over into the next year. And you have to retool, you have to rethink. And you know, the Raiders just didn't get off to the start that they wanted to. And you have to really establish a culture and a foundation. You can't rally based off of what you did last year. We traded Devontay. He's not happy. Max Crosby. He's one of the foundational pieces that you have, but you can't just win football games with two star players and you lose Devontay Adams, quarterbacks up and down play. Don't know the culture. Don't know the identity of the team. You lose a Josh Jacobs. It just gets tough. So I don't know. They might have to reset again in terms of where they're going. I think Antonio Pierce is a great coach and I think he's a great motivator of men. But did he hire the right people on the offense and defensive staff, special team staff? That's how I look at it now. One coach, I might have left him off that list there, but Iber Flus in Chicago. Also that was a shocking kind of no show by the Bears there against the Cardinals. And I want to ask you about this play. Did you see the DJ Moore play by any chance where Caleb Williams, he kind of rolls out to the left and Moore runs like a comeback towards the sideline and he's open and what Caleb doesn't throw it and instead he spins back to the middle of the field. DJ Moore steps out of bounds. It's unclear whether he stepped out during his route or whether he initially was walking off already, but Benny, he walks off to the sideline to the bench and Williams is still rolling around looking down the field. Super weird, super weird play, strange feeling there. You know, you have Tyrek Stevenson waving to the fans the week before the Hail Mary against Washington, DJ Moore is a respected veteran. I've never heard a bad word about the guy, you know, I think his work ethic or anything. If he stepped out of bounds and he knew he stepped out of bounds, you're always taught as a receiver, you know, let the quarterback know that you're out of the play completely. So, yeah, you're not eligible to touch the ball. So if he did step out of bounds and he knew he stepped out of bounds, that play makes sense. Now, if he just gave up, then I don't have a explanation for him giving up on the play, but yeah, if he stepped out of bounds and know he stepped out of bounds, you're taught not to, you don't want the quarterback to know that you're a target. So just you just, you know, stop playing at that point, especially it happens more so on the red zone if a defense of back pushes you out of the back of the end zone. They don't want you to run back in at all. So just stay out of the play, stay out of the way. So because you're not eligible to touch the ball. So that's kind of how I think about it. Eber Flus, I don't know, you know, if he gets fired in the middle of the season, the Bears had their momentum, you know, and then they lost the game to Washington on the Hail Mary. And now I think, you know, his name's starting to get mentioned in that because you see Tyree Stevenson, you know, taught in the crowd and then he gives up the Hail Mary and, you know, they're, you know, they're wondering if Eber Flus is coaching that and, you know, kind of make an example of them. And then you supposedly see this DJ more play if is he giving up and, you know, I don't think it was a no show. I think the Cardinals are the, you know, they're at the top of their division. So they're no slouch. I think we might look at the Cardinals in a different way, but the Cardinals and Bears are two teams that, you know, I would say are kind of evenly matched in terms of who they are, their identity, you know, I don't think any one of them or any one of those teams are world beaters, so, you know, Chicago didn't show up. That's, you know, I didn't expect them to go into to Arizona and just blow them out. So we'll see where they go, but I think going forward, I wouldn't be surprised at the end of the season if Eber Flus is let go and they want to bring in somebody who can, who has the offensive mind to, you know, work with a Caleb Williams and put him in a position to win and be successful, especially after you see the number two over pick and Jaden Day is the way he's playing. Hmm. Now, it's an interesting point about the Cardinals. You're right about that. I'm probably not giving them enough credit. I will say this about the Cardinals. I mean, I'm not a Kyler/Merry fan, but James Connor is that dude, like incredible player. He is an awesome player like the, not the same player, but the same way that we've talked about what Aaron Jones does for Minnesota, for example, like how there really is, like if he's not in the game, there's a major drop off for how they can call the offense and the effectiveness they get out of a running game. Connor's that level of running back like he's, he's that tier of RB where like if he misses a game, it's going to change the way that they can attack teams, right? Hmm. Yeah. So now tough player, Benny staying on, um, not to be super negative, the whole, the whole podcast here, but it tying this together with these coaches. On the hot seat, right now there are nine teams with two wins. So they either two and six or two and seven in the NFL, you're talking about basically a third of the league. And frankly, I thought last year, the overall quality of teams top to bottom was not strong compared to other years that I've been covering them covering the NFL. And I, we may have talked about this before, but, um, hey, do you agree with me that just the product top to bottom in the league, there's more bad teams and bad football than we've seen before. And then the second question would be, what accounts for that? What accounts for, uh, so many teams being just out of it so early? Yeah, I would say there definitely are, yeah, there definitely are some pretty bad teams. And what accounts for that I believe is the roster construction. How are these teams constructed? And I think sometimes you are just signing players and free agency, but do they actually fit into your scheme and what you're actually trying to accomplish and what you're actually trying to achieve. And I think now you can also go back to coaching. Are you actually coaching these players up to be actual football players? I think one of the things that I was blessed on or blessed with early in my career was that we had great coaches in Denver and then we had a veteran locker room. We had a veteran locker room with a veteran presence to actually teach you how to be a pro and how to play the game the right way. And then we had that we had an incredible culture just because of those players and that cohesiveness. So I would when I think about the quality or the product of the game, I always go back to, you know, who are the coaches of these teams? How are they installing things? I'd be curious to see what it's like actually being in their building, what it's like to be in their culture. When I think about my time in New York, we had some incredible talent, but we weren't an actual team in terms of how we performed on the field, the camaraderie that we had in terms of on field play. I think we were a great locker room team. We had a lot of fun, but when you think about the overall cohesiveness of that culture, the pointing the fingers, the going in different directions, the me, me, me, that's what I'm seeing in terms of those teams that are two and six or two and seven, and you know, people out there playing for themselves. And when you get to this point in the season, you are playing for yourself, you know, you're two and seven, two and six, right before a couple of weeks before Thanksgiving, it now all becomes about you in that locker room and making sure you finish the season healthy and make sure you finish the season show. Honestly, I think all those teams would do well to have you come in and speak to the locker room for 20 or 30 minutes, because when you and I met, like, I think one of the things we connected on is I could just see that you had like a bigger picture perspective on the, like you said, the word culture that you use. That's an overused word by a lot of people who don't know what it means. But I feel like the way that you used it and that you, you describe it and you connect it to performance and the relationships in a building and the way that it connects to how you assimilate talent, right? Like it connects to the personnel that you're acquiring, right, because it governs your philosophy on the type of people and players that you want, whether it's how they relate to people and how they represent you in the community, but also how they connect in the X's and O's field way in your walkthroughs and practices and games to how your team performs. Sometimes I think these teams get caught in, whether it's the blame game or it's ego or they have a certain philosophy and they don't want to veer off of it, even though the team that they inherited doesn't look the same way that their model looks, I do think some Benny Fowler in the locker room would be good for these squads. Pivoting to some positive stuff. Let's do it. Let me hear the Benny Fowler live reaction to watching Sequon jump backwards over a guy. I want to hear your breakdown of that play. What the hell is he even doing thinking to do that in the first place? How does he execute that? And I guess this gets us into our shout outs portion of the podcast. It's shout out Sequon, but I want to hear the Benny Fowler breakdown of this play. Yes, definitely shout out to Sequon, former teammate of mine for two years and an incredible athlete, incredible player. When I actually saw the play in real time, I kind of just got up and walked away. It's like, you see something like that, you get up, you walk away and you're like, that's not real, that wasn't real, that didn't actually just happen. And then I called my wife and I was like, did you just see that? He jumped over somebody backwards. But with that being said, Sequon, like I said, he is one of the best athletes that I've ever seen and ever played with and just the feel, I mean, you could kind of see him setting it up. He kind of looked back as he was backpedaling and then just did it. But to be that athletic and to make that type of play, man, it's just got to piss you off if you're a New York Giants fan and it's got to make you super happy that you're a Philly fan. But I think overall, it's just great for the NFL. I mean, talk about the plays that we saw this week. So when we think about, or when I was watching the play with Sequon in real time, it's just one of those plays where you're sitting on the couch, you're watching the game, enjoying the game. You see the spin move super exciting and then you watch them jump over somebody backwards and you just get up, you walk away and then you have to gather your thoughts in terms of what you just saw. And that's kind of how I was watching that play. And Sequon's one of the best athletes players that I ever played with in my career. And you just don't see that, you know, I think they've been talking about it on TV. That's not something that you practice. That's just his feel of the game. And I think I said earlier in the year when we first started doing this is that Sequon is going to have Penn State like numbers and he's going to have Penn State like plays. Now he has that offensive line, he has that scheme in terms of the players around him that can support him and you can see all of his real talent on display. And what an exciting play. I mean, just an incredible play. One of the best plays that I've ever seen, for a 14 yard run, it's one of the best plays that I've ever seen. So yeah, definitely a big shout out to Sequon and then shout out to all the players that made plays in the NFL this week. I think Garrett Wilson, with the one handed catch to Marcus Robinson, with his one handed catch, Devontae Smith, with his one handed catch. I mean, just some incredible plays throughout the league this week. So everybody, all the talent is on full display. Well, it was a great point about what you said about Sequon setting up the move and peaking. That was the thing I noticed about the play was as incredible as all his physical skills are. And, you know, probably me, I'm spoiled from having seen him a lot. But it doesn't surprise me that he did it. What I thought was hilarious and ridiculously like talented and just reflects not just his physical talent, but his vision and his feel for the game is as he's making an amazing move to Juka guy out of his jockstrap. He's peaking backwards at the next guy coming to set him up for a backwards jump. Like the physical ability is one thing, setting him up for it and seeing it coming because you couldn't execute it otherwise, that's just at a whole other level. I mean, I, I know that players like Lamar Jackson and, you know, some of the top quarterbacks, like the MVP race as that starts to round into form, you know, it'll be hard to beat a guy out like Lamar or something for that kind of award. But Benny, I don't think it's crazy. I know Derek Henry's been a monster too. I don't think it's crazy though to say that depending on how the season shakes out, if Saquon just stays on pace, he really could be a guy who gets votes at the end of this season. If the. For sure, we'll get votes. I mean, if I had to go, here's my, here's my top five MVP lists right now, just, you know, just because we're talking about it. Number one, I would have to say right now, Jared golf would be the MVP. If you're throwing more touchdowns than, than incompletions in the first or in last six games, you should for sure be an MVP candidate. I think they're seven and one or six or one. Number two, MVP pick would be Jaden Daniels, seven and two, playing incredible, playing some incredible football and a leader of that team has completely turned that franchise around along with the players alongside him like Terry McClellan and Bobby Wagner. Number three, Lamar Jackson, playing some incredible football as well. I think he is on pace. This is going to be a better season this, this year than his two previous MVP seasons. Number four, Saquon Barkley, incredible player in terms of everything that he is doing for the Philadelphia Eagles, running and catching and then number five, Derek Henry, just everything that he's brought that dynamic, that dynamic running game that he's brought to, to Baltimore and just the incredible physical nature that he has brought to their run game. I love that list. You brought me to my next shout out, which was to Jaden Daniels, who I saw him play in week two in person against the Giants, but that stadium down in Maryland is trash, not only for the players, but for the media, the sight lines are horrendous, Benny, like you, you can't tell whether a run goes for five yards or one yard. It's awful, but seeing him at MetLife Stadium with a good view of it. So Benny, I've been covering the NFL since 2016 and then this year, especially the Giants have struggled at home, isn't that Jaden Daniels made two throws on Sunday at MetLife here in Jersey that were two of the best throws I've seen in a while. I mean, there were definitely the two best throws I've seen at MetLife Stadium this season. One was an over-out just in the first half, about maybe 17, 18 yards down the field, just kind of layering it with touch over top. I can't remember if it was Deami Brown, somebody over the middle, but just, it was like a laser with touch and finding the window was just a beautiful throw. And I even ran over to one of my friends and colleagues in the media and said, "Bester, I've seen in the stadium this season right when it happened." But then sure enough, he dropped this laser dime over top of Deontay Banks' head to Terry McClure and for a touchdown basically on the last play of the second quarter going into halftime. And I got to say, Benny, the way that Sequan is injecting life in the Eagles, you can count on one hand the amount of players, let's say in the last decade, where they join a team and immediately everybody in the building, and then it starts to kind of fan out throughout the nation. Everyone goes, "Oh, they've got one." It's like that TikTok video of the guy, somebody's uncle, like storming around after the Hail Mary and just staring at the camera and he says, "We got one. We got one. You know, CJ Stroud and Houston, I guess, would be an example. Mahomes, obviously, in Kansas City once he stepped on the field, but I'm struggling to find too many comparisons to a player that has kind of lit up his team and started to change the landscape of the league as quickly as Jayden Daniels has. Yeah, Jayden Daniels is a special talent. I think he just has a unique ability to, he just has a unique ability the way he feels his way throughout the game and the throws that he makes, the poise that he plays with, the poise that he plays with under pressure is just something that you don't necessarily see from a rookie. And like you said, some of the throws that he's making, the anticipation that he is throwing with is on another level. I mean, he is making some throws that a eight or ten-year vet would make in terms of back shoulder, in terms of ball placement, in terms of standing in the pocket and staying in the pocket. I mean, this is a really special season that we are seeing. I'm curious to see how he just, I would love to see him just interact and go about his business throughout the week, because it's got to be something special to see as a rookie and as a young player, how he is progressing throughout the week, how he is implementing the game plan, how he's practicing, because what he's doing on Sunday is incredible. And he's got to be so in tune and so dialed in throughout the week. So it's super exciting to see and it's incredible to see this type of talent on display in the first year of his career. And it's only up from here. I think he'll continue to get better and he'll continue to progress throughout his career. But he's got some real talent on that team and they are playing well and they are playing with a lot of confidence. And we also have to give a shout out to Adam Peters, their GM, number one. Number two, we have to give a shout out to Dan Quinn in the culture that he set and people love playing for him. And then number three, Cliff Kingsbury, in terms of the plays that he's calling, the plays that he's dialing up, the way he is spreading the ball around. That's an incredible trio right there for a rookie quarterback to have. And I think one of the things that also sticks out when you think about the Washington commanders as opposed to the Chicago Bears, the Chicago Bears' coaching staff is coaching for their livelihood. The Washington coaching staff is coaching from a position to win and they're winning long term. And they're thinking about that. And that's how they're coaching. They're not coaching to save their job. So shout out to Jayden Daniels and the plays that he is making the throws and just his overall confidence and swagger and it's exciting to see. Yeah, and to your point about, you know, wanting to kind of be in a fly on the wall and see how he operates, I was actually asking somebody about that on Sunday at the stadium because he profiles like when he speaks publicly, he comes off kind of quiet. Not in a bad way, just, you know, kind of reserved, quiet, low-key. I said to this person, that seems like probably how he is, seems genuine. And they said, oh, not on the field and then the huddle, he's not. And I liked hearing that from a perspective of him continuing to grow and maybe learning why he's good so early. Like, I've heard similar things about CJ Stroud and the idea of, you expect them as rookies and as young players to be soaking up so much knowledge, they don't know that maybe they're a little bit passive. But they're being asked as franchise quarterbacks drafted in the top five, top two, to take control and lead a team. And so what I hear about Daniels is what I've heard about Stroud, which is that they kind of have grabbed it by the collar. And like, whether it's telling the offensive coordinator what they want or just having their conversations throughout the week or the way that they're correcting guys right in the huddle there, you know, hey, here's why that didn't work. I need more out of you here. Like, that's what he's doing. And I don't think there's any confusion kind of knowing that about why he's having success for sure. Another shout out I wanted to give is to our man Daniel Jones. Daniel, we both know where this is headed with the Giants and with his career here. But after a first half where, yeah, they were having success in the run game, but Brian Dable basically wasn't calling any pass plays. Daniel has a humiliating stat line at halftime, no passing yards with a passing touchdown to Chris man Hertz. And he comes out second half and in a stadium where he struggled where the fan base has really not been behind him where the team, you know, at the top has not been behind him. Listen to these numbers, Benny, 20 of 26 passes on the day, 76.9 completion percentage, the highest of the season and sixth highest of his career, pass a rating of 119.7 easily the highest of the season and his highest since he posted a 125.2 on January 1st, 2023. Again, probably doesn't change where all this is going, but I think DJ deserves a shout out because, you know, everybody saw him run a couple of guys over on the goal line, but it's not just that we've seen that for it's more like, you know, the world he's living in is against him and he's still playing at a high level. Yeah. Shout out to DJ. I think he's a strong person mentally. I think yeah, the season is definitely, you know, in the can right now and it's, you know, every man for himself and, you know, day ball not calling plays to pass in the first half or whatever. It may be, you know, I don't know what that's about, but shout out to DJ plan hard and shout out to him to continue to still go out there and play for himself and his teammates. And he just needs a fresh start. He needs to get out of New York, New York is just not the place for him. Who knows what it's the rest of his career can look like and if you have another chance to start, but I think there's no doubt that he's an NFL player and that he can play quarterback in the NFL. Well, you can't just go out there and have those types of stats and we've seen highlights from DJ and DJ playing really well, but it's in the NFL. This episode is brought to you by progressive insurance, fiscally responsible, financial geniuses, monetary magicians. These are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for paying in full, owning a home and more. Plus, you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it. So your dollar goes a long way. Visit progressive.com to see if you can save on car insurance. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates, potential savings will vary, not available in all states or situations. It's BOMBAS.com/listen and use code Listen at checkout. About consistency and he hasn't been consistent in New York and, you know, I think the Giants look, they're a clean house, but he can go somewhere and get a fresh start and who knows. You can have a Ryan Tana Hill like resurgence. You can have a Geno Smith like resurgence. You can have a Sam Darnell like resurgence. You can have a Baker Mayfield like resurgence. So yeah, it's tough for DJ New York is a tough place to play. You got to have thick skin and you got to be a consistent player. But right now, there's not much to cheer about. So he's got to stay, stay even, kill and finish the season out strong. And I don't know, maybe they'll probably put some drew lock in here in a couple of weeks to try to avoid the injury thing. Yeah, it's not, it's not really going anywhere. A few more quick ones. Thanks for another great podcast, great insight, Benny around the league here. Number one, the NFC West is muddied right now. You mentioned Arizona five and four in first place. The Rams are four and four so are the Niners and the Seahawks are four and five. If you had a crystal ball, how do you think that's going to shake out there? It's like a lot of teams kind of in the same spot as far as kind of like capable of winning every week and capable of losing every week. And the Niners, of course, really banged up. They're usually the team that kind of exerts themselves with kind of superior talent. And that might not really be there for them down the stretch here. I'm just curious how you think it'll shake out there. With NFC West, I see it shaking out as the Rams getting hot and the 49ers getting hot. And either one of those two will finish first or second in the division, but I can see both of those teams actually making the playoffs. I can see the Rams and the 49ers both making the playoffs and they just need to get healthy at the right time. Yes, they're both not healthy as healthy as they want to be at the beginning of the season. But if you're healthy in late November, early December and you're rolling, that's better than being healthy in September and October and not being healthy in December when you actually need to be. So if they're getting healthy at the right time, both of those teams, they're scary because that offense in San Francisco can put up points with the best of them if they have all their weapons and they're getting McCaffery back. And then same thing with the Rams. You know, Cooper Cup being back, Pukka Nakua and they're running game and they're offensive on their front. And then you have Matthew Stafford slinging the ball around, you know, they're a dangerous team. Yeah, no, that I for sure I do. The Rams are the team that makes me raise my eyebrow about like, I think your I think this team is not as bad as people might think they are. They do have Matt Stafford another another one. I can't figure this team out really. They always start slow and then they always end up being a factor, but they have a lot of ground to make up Cincinnati Bengals. They're four and five. I mean, the Steelers are ahead of them at six and two. The Baltimore Ravens are six and three. I just can't figure out, you know, they beat up on a bad Raiders team 41 24 Joey Barrow showing some fire throwing five touchdown passes. Is their season over though or not over obviously they're four and five. But I guess what I mean is, do you see a team there who can do what they've done in some of these years, which is just get hot, get into the playoffs and suddenly again, be looked at after the season as like a top five team. Yeah, I can see them getting hot, but I think they have some some pretty hard divisional games coming up and I think they can actually get exposed this year based off of the slow start. You know, they still have to pay play. I think Pittsburgh twice. I think they're playing. Are they playing Baltimore on Thursday? Yes, they're coming up here this Thursday against Baltimore. Yeah. They play Baltimore twice, probably or no, they play Baltimore again and then they, you know, they'll have the Cleveland game, but yeah, I think I think their schedule later on in the year, you know, might bite them in the butt in terms of that slow start. So I don't necessarily see them getting hot this year to finish things off because they're going to have to win out basically seven out of nine or whatever, you know, whatever games. How many games they have left? They'd have to win seven out of nine to make the playoffs probably. So I don't see it. Now a good point to your point. You started us off early on saying that the Saints were probably going to be sellers at the deadline here. And Josina Anderson reports that trade talks for Marshawn Latimore, the corner with the Saints are it are warming up. That's the quote and that multiple people are involved. So then calling his shot there, Kansas City, you like that? Kansas City. Yeah, they'll go for that. I could see the Rams going for it. They don't believe in draft and players. I can see the Rams going for it. That'd be that'd be great for the league to get Marshawn Latimore. They only just grabbed the Andre Hopkins and he looks like the Houston Texans, DeAndre Hopkins on Monday night football. He's going to open up that office a lot. I think what we saw on Monday night from Kansas City, now you will see even more of a resurgence, I think, with Travis Kelsey because now you have a respectable pass catcher on the other side of him and that just opens up the offense even more. You see Patrick roll out or roll up through the pocket and throw the ball down the field to the Andre Hopkins with three people around him, but that's a trust that you have. It's like you just know that he's going to catch a ball. So now Travis Kelsey has 14 catches on Monday night football. He had 15 catches in the first four games and he has 14 on Monday night football in week nine. So that's because the offense will now be opened up even more. You have legit hands catcher on the other side. You have Travis Kelsey, then you have Xavier Worthy. Now everything will start to flow together. This offense will continue to get rolling. And then Facheco's coming back in a couple of weeks, you'll have Facheco and Kareem Hunt, you know, Kansas City, they put up 30 points. It was good to see my home's not turned the ball over either. You know, I think he'll continue to play better in these last eight games, nine games of the season. You'll see my homes, I think, play really well just based off of now that acquisition. Their offensive line is not very good in pass protection. It's amazing. It's amazing just like what he can do and what they can do with the running game and the play calling to just kind of like overcome it anyway. Obviously spags in the defense helps it too because you see, sometimes they have these three and outs and then their defense is just getting stops. That brings me to our power rankings, Ben, my top five right now, Kansas City Chiefs, number one, Detroit Lions, number two, Baltimore Ravens, number three, Buffalo Bills, number four and Washington commanders, number five. What do you think of that list? What's your top five? Who am I missing? I would say the Detroit Lions are the best in football right now. I think they're the best team in football. I would say Kansas City, then I would say Baltimore, then I would say Washington. Who was your five? I had Buffalo at four Washington five. I put Buffalo at five. Although I do think the Lions are the best team in football, I would not pick them against Kansas City or Baltimore if they were playing in a game against them. I would not pick them to beat them, but I do think they're overall the best team in football. I think they're playing the most in the best complimentary football, but if I had to pick them, I would not pick them in a game versus Kansas City or Baltimore. Interesting. Two other small ones, Baron Browning from Denver got traded to the Arizona Cardinals. It's kind of a pass rusher who has flexibility to play inside. What kind of player is he, Benny? You know your Broncos as well as anybody. Hi, Motor. You know, loved in the city of Denver, loved on that team and a guy who's made some plays and made some plays for a few years now. So I'm surprised to see Denver being a seller, but yeah, I think the Cardinals think that they have a legit chocken in terms of making the playoffs, so they made a move for some of us need a pass rush, no doubt. And last but not least, a shout out to Sterling Shepherd, three catches for 35 yards on the final drive of the fourth quarter on Monday night football to send bucks chiefs to overtime. Kansas City ends up winning, but I don't know about you, but I was happy to see him succeed after kind of how it ended here in New York. I mean, he was cooking guys in practice here in New York to the end, even though they didn't have it on the active roster and on game day. So I know he's had some injuries, but it's nice to see him cooking some guys on the field in games that matter again. Yeah, shout out to Young Shep. You know, I talked to him a couple of days, maybe before training camp or during training camp and he was telling me that he was done and that, you know, that he was going to retire and then he gets a call from the Bucks and then now he's out there thriving and he's playing with that same energy, that same passion. So shout out to young Shep and still has the ability to create massive amounts of separation. I mean, we saw it last night, corner routes out routes. His report with Baker Mayfield was great. So shout out to young Shep and I think he'll be playing a couple more years based off of what he just put on tape. I can hear him making that sound when he plants his foot, Jay, actually he makes that he kind of makes that sound and kind of laughs at you as he's running by you. You know, like that's, I can hear it right now. Benny, this has been a fantastic episode and conversation again here first down with Benny Fowler, Super Bowl champion, former NFL wide receiver joins us to break down the action every week here on talking ball with Pat Leonard beans. Thanks for the time as always, man. Appreciate you, Pat. That was another fantastic edition of first down with Benny Fowler here on the talking ball with Pat Leonard podcast on the believe network. Thank you to my bookie for sponsoring talking ball with Pat Leonard. My bookie is rolling out the red carpet for sports betters this season. Make this season a winning season with my bookie. We hit in week nine on the Daniel Jones. 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