New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at MetLife Stadium to break down their 27-22 NFC East loss to Jayden Daniels' first-place Washington Commanders @Bleav. Pat speaks to Brian Daboll and the Giants' players to bring you first-hand information on the game's biggest plays and key injuries, including comments from Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, Azeez Ojulari and Malik Nabers. Pat takes all fan questions and forecasts where the Giants go from here as they prepare for an international game against the Carolina Panthers in Munich, Germany. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 Coffee is a specialty coffee concentrate that's perfect when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. It takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious Estate 98 iced or hot coffee, it’s great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Malik Nabers vents, Brian Burns says changes needed after 27-22 loss to Commanders
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at MetLife Stadium to break down their 27-22 NFC East loss to Jayden Daniels' first-place Washington Commanders @Bleav. Pat speaks to Brian Daboll and the Giants' players to bring you first-hand information on the game's biggest plays and key injuries, including comments from Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, Azeez Ojulari and Malik Nabers. Pat takes all fan questions and forecasts where the Giants go from here as they prepare for an international game against the Carolina Panthers in Munich, Germany.
- Duration:
- 1h 53m
- Broadcast on:
- 04 Nov 2024
- Audio Format:
- other
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Daniel Jones with three touchdowns on the day, one rushing and two passing. In the end, the Giants still get it done, a host of reasons why a killer turnover in the first half on their first pass play, a screen drawn up where Chris Hubbard, the backup left tackle. Now the Giants' third string left tackle technically gets roasted off the edge and surrenders a fumble there. Daniel Jones trying to throw the screen and get that away. That ends up getting the commanders on the board early after a defensive stop to start it. And from there the Giants were playing catch up from behind, of course, some serious defensive breakdowns throughout this game, starting with the defensive line in both the run and the pass game, and then trickling over, of course, to the offensive game planning early on where I thought Dan Quinn, whose game plan was not strong for Malik neighbors in the Giants' offense in week two at Washington, I thought very clearly that Joe Witt Jr. Dan Quinn of the commanders adjusted, they were doubling neighbors in the first half. They were, for sure, adjusting to the idea that, listen, we can't just leave this guy on an island, we can't just play this guy one on one, and we have to attack him and force Daniel Jones to go elsewhere. Frankly, I thought the commanders were content with leaving their numbers, you know, with the Giants having an extra guy in the box and trusting their guys to win those match ups and early on the Giants were rattling off big gains in the running game. The problem was that, that turnover forced, and the fact that Brian Dable then leaned completely into running the ball and not throwing it at all and showing any confidence the rest of the first half in his passing game, they ended up in the first, in the first quarter, they called 16 runs to three passes, and eventually you see that when you have a quarterback like Jaden Daniels, who's not under pressure because the Giants defensive line wasn't getting to him and really flustering him at all, combined that with the tackling errors and the miscues and coverage on the back end, and it was kind of a perfect storm of a lot of frustration and unacceptable play and results on the defensive side of the ball and in general. And after the game, some interesting frustrations, so Dexter Lawrence and Brian Burns sitting at Lawrence's locker for a long time after the game was over. Brian Burns, so if you can picture this, Lawrence was sitting at his seat facing his own locker. Brian Burns, whose locker is across the room, was sitting with his back against the wall facing Lawrence in the outside of the room or the center of the room. Sitting there, uniform pants still on, is undershirt of his uniform still on, his eye black and face paint still on his face, you know, the sweat dripping and they were talking and they were talking about what went wrong, what can they do better. And coming out of that scene, some interesting conversations, Dexter Lawrence said they just outplayed us, I think the offense played well enough for us to win, the defense just got beat up today. Brian Burns said that what they were talking about, he wouldn't reveal exactly, he wanted to keep it private respectfully, he said, but he did say that they talked about things that need to change for this week coming up. He asked if he knows what needs to change, he said yes, you know, starting with the details, but obviously other things on their mind. And then Lawrence kind of snapped, you know, kind of resented the question about what they were discussing and whether that scene reflected frustration. He said, if I'm talking to my teammate, that ain't nothing for you to be concerned about. We were just talking about the game and what we are going to do to be better. Now Malik neighbors over at his locker earlier had some interesting words as well. So you saw held without a catch in the first half, came alive in the second half, the giant threw the ball better in the second half, committed more to it, called more passing place. Daniel Jones, interestingly enough, you have to imagine played too well in this game to bench the guy, right? Because in the first half, the main reason he didn't have any passing yards was because they didn't call a lot of pass plays and when they did, they got completely blown up on these screens. And then in the second half, three touchdowns, including a Russian TD, two passing TDs. So kind of hard to pin this one on the quarterback. And Malik neighbors nevertheless asked about different elements of this game afterwards. So he said that amid his disappointment, he rationalized, this is the 21 year old rookie receiver for the Giants. He rationalized that he would rather build something from the ground up because, quote, it feels better when you come from the mud and start winning successfully. And when he was asked if the Giants can do that here, here was neighbors' answer. He said, yeah, you've just got to build, you've got to build up, you've got to put the right people in place to be successful. You've got to get the right keys, you've got to get the right guys on the team to win. Obviously the commanders have done that. They've got the right guys that they want to be on the team and they're winning. Now listen, 21 years old, but it's hard to imagine and interpret this as anything other than neighbors saying the Giants need different or better players. And he's not wrong about that, obviously, right? That's not an incorrect statement by Malik neighbors that the commanders look like they're at a different place and further ahead than the Giants. And that's what he sees when he looks. Then again, you know, that's a tough thing for the Giants operation to hear because this is a three year regime process now for Joe Shane and Brian Dable. And we're past the point where the Dave Gettleman blame game can happen, right? Chris Hubbard's on that field because Evan Neal was a draft pick of Joe Shane's. Josh Azudu was a draft pick of Joe Shane's. All the other depth pieces and moves that they made were Joe Shane's. They ran Azudu back last year, they end up signing Hubbard off the Niners practice squad. Now he's in there at left tackle. None of this is a Dave Gettleman thing. Joe Shane's first season, he signed Mark Lewinsky at guard, John Feliciano at center and he drafted Evan Neal, Josh Azudu and Marcus McKethan. Azudu is not good. Neal can't play and doesn't play, but he played one snap today as well on the goal line. That's his second snap of the season, McKethan's not on the team, Feliciano's not on the team and losing that edge honestly has hurt them and Glue Winsky's not on the team. So that was the year one start of process of rebuilding the offensive line that's brought us to the position and the place we are today. Now you look at the rookie class that has been promising obviously from the Giants in certain areas this year with guys like Tyrone Tracy Jr. and Neighbors, but another rough day, kind of second straight rough day for a lot of those rookies. Tracy obviously had a big game against Pittsburgh, but second straight week, Drew Phillips has had a really tough game. Theo Johnson called a touchdown, also had two killer drops in this game and Tyler Neubin, the rookie safety, a really rough outing as well, but it's impossible to put the Giants problems on the rookies, but when you look at this as an overall process and an evaluation of where the Giants are, it's just, again, it's like a dam with 50 different holes and you're trying to plug each one and every time you plug one, another league springs. That's what it feels like. That's what it looks like. And to be honest, I thought my takeaway from listening to Burns, hearing Neighbors's comments and just listening to everybody in the locker room, the leaders of this team, I think what they're saying, this is my analysis, okay? My analysis is that there need to be changes, but the changes to make them better right now are not coming. That's what I think my takeaway is from the feel of those conversations and comments. So in other words, now I did ask Brian Burns, do you think, at what point during the season does it become too late? And Burns's answer to that, the exact words I want to give you, he said, I'm not sure. That's too soon to say, I wouldn't know. And then he was asked, do you think the Giants can turn this around? He said, it's the NFL, stranger things have happened, people go and runs all the time. He said, there were a lot of two teams recently, so it's on us to capitalize off our opportunities. Somebody pressed and said, do you think you guys can be one of those teams that goes on a run? He said, definitely. But I think the overall feeling is there's too many issues, yeah, it's just too many issues. And as I wrap up my monologue here to start our talking ball with Pat Leonard, post-game live podcast here on The Believe Network and on my YouTube channel, PL on NFL. Remember if you're listening on Apple or Spotify, rate, review, subscribe, but also come join us live on the YouTube page, on The Believe Network, PL on NFL, subscribe, join our lives, join the live chats, and please, everybody, while you are here, hit that like button while we go. That helps improve engagement, brings Giants fans here, talk about what's coming now. One other element I want to get to before I jump into the questions, we talk about our sponsors a little bit quickly, is talking to his easel Ojalari after the game. He does not know, he said no one's told him anything. To me, it felt like, goodbye to his eas, it felt like an understanding on my end, on his end, on everybody's end that this could be, and his likely, his last game as a giant. We don't know if that's going to happen for sure, nobody said those exact words to me, but that's how it feels, that's how it felt. Aziz, a giant to the end, says like he feels like this team has a lot what it takes to be good, they haven't put it together yet. He doesn't want to leave New York, that's not his, that's not on his mind, but he understands the business type of thing. But in my opinion, the conversation and the feeling of it, I do believe he would end up getting traded, or at least that I don't think he would be surprised if he got traded. Now Daria Slaton is in the concussion protocol. I believe you would be allowed as an NFL team to make a trade for a player like that, and pending a physical prior to Tuesday at 4 p.m. and then if he passes, you could, either it would go through or he doesn't pass the physical and it wouldn't go through. But I have to confirm that, that's just my belief based on how these types of transactions tend to work, and regardless though, regardless of whether you could do that or not, I do think it's probably fair to say that it probably decreases the likelihood of a team rushing to pay top dollar or top asset for a guy who is banged up at that point and that you can't make it your hands around the exact nature of it. And also, where the Giants stand at two and seven, you know, who are you putting on the field if Daria Slaton gets traded at wide receiver to prevent this team from going completely in the tank? Because there's just no confidence in anybody behind Daria Slaton from a play time perspective from the coaching staff. So that's something to remember as well. So as I sit here, here and now, after the game, it does feel a little bit like Aziz Ojalari won't be a giant and Daria Slaton will, but you know, we will have to see because definitely like 24 hours as we sit here now talking about it to go to figure out what's going to happen there. But like I said, that's my, that's my best read on that. Patrick Evans reminds you all to hit that subscribe and like button. Like I said, and like Patrick is saying, thank you, Patrick, for reminding everybody, please hit the like button while we are live that does a lot for us and subscribe to the channel if you don't already really appreciate those subscriptions. The Daniel Jones, anytime touchdown hit today. And also I had Brian Robinson Jr. getting in obviously when he was inactive, that shifts over to Austin Echler. He gets in. The Tyrone Tracy Jr. receiving yards did not hit. I whiffed on that one. So that was a bummer. But the commanders did cover, did have them covering and they do cover with a five point win on a four point spread. So those are all part of Pat's picks and I do Pat's picks every week and that's with my bookie, our sponsor, sports book, they're rolling out the red carpet this year for sports betters in their 10th year anniversary. They have a new loyalty rewards program called my bookie plus. If you sign up there, you'll get exclusive promotions, cash back in your account. If you want to win this football season, win with my bookie, whether you're betting my giant sprinkle props, my Pat's picks on the spreads every week, or you just like betting the favorites, the underdogs, whatever it is, I'm a big prop and parlay guy. I love that stuff. So if you want to get it on the action, use my bookie open an account today and here's the deal. If you go to the link in my social media profile, so that's on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, threads, Twitter. So on Twitter, I'm P Leonard NYDN and everywhere else on PL on NFL. If you go to that link and to make a first deposit and use the promo code Pat's picks, you will get a 100% match on your first deposit of $50 or more all the way up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. So bet anything, anytime, anywhere with my bookie. Let's win. Also brought to you here by Boom Chaga mushroom super drink, Boom Chaga is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds. You can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks. I pour mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference. I personally have felt a post workout like energy boost with boom, Chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol, reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluten and antioxidants. Go to boomchaga.com today to place your first order. And if you use the discount code talking about 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. You're feeling the difference today at boomchaga.com. Also stay tuned on Monday, November 4th going to drop a 20 or 25 minute episode. Rich Funk, the co-founder of Boom Chaga and I, he joins the talking ball with Pat Leonard podcast recorded the other day and goes into detail about the health benefits of Boom Chaga. What makes it different from other Chaga and mushroom products? My Chaga is so healthy, testimonials from people about what he has done from people who have used this supplement and a really fun conversation, informative, rich knows a lot, very engaging. He's also Cincinnati Bengals fans. We talk about the Bengals a little bit. They just had a big win today over the lowly Raiders. So check that episode out on Monday, November 4th when it drops. And of course, we're also brought to you here by estate 98 coffee. Estate 98 is a specialty coffee concentrate that is perfect when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. Takes me less than 10 seconds to make it delicious, estate 98 iced or hot coffee. It's great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkingball to get a special offer. It's an exclusive offer, 80% off your first order of estate 98. So we had been doing the buy one get one. Now we're offering you an exclusive offer, 80% off your first order. So that's 80% off your first bottle. Go to estate98.com/talkingball today. All right, let's get into your questions. Remember, if you purchase a super chat or a super sticker on this chat, I will address or answer your comments or questions first. So that means we start with Joel Lopez. Joel, what's up? Welcome back. He says, totally disgusted with this team. Our middle linebackers keep playing out of position, no help in the running game. The secondary can't cover anyone and don't get me started with the left tackle situation. Yeah, interesting point, Joel. I think also what's missing from your critique there. And this is something that I really noticed in a big way today, but I also felt was lacking in the conversation coming off the Steelers game is, yes, of course, Deontay Banks deserve to be blamed at bench for quitting on plays. He wasn't bench for that, but then he was bench last game, mid game, mid first half for missed tackling, supposedly, it seemed like basically Dexter Lawrence wasn't interested in having him on the field anymore is how it came off based on the kind of the way that events happened in the chronology of it all. To me, like when you have the leg worst run defense, okay, the defensive line is not showing up as Dexter Lawrence has some big stats and has had a really good year individually. But these big running plays, like Austin Echler had a 20 yard run today that set up his eventual Echler's one yard touchdown run. There's just a gaping hole in the defensive line on a run like that. And the Giants defensive front, even though it has had a bunch of sacks this season prior to today has created some pressure and does have, you know, the best players on the Giants defense are on the line. They're just as culpable as everybody else, like some of these missed tackles happening at the second level by the linebackers are because the running back is coming downhill with no resistance. So like it's all tied together. And I thought Dexter Lawrence actually accepted that today, like he accepted the responsibility of like basically they kicked our ass and they outcompeted us and they beat us. So you know, I felt like I think everything you just said is accurate though, yeah, the left tackle situation is just that's personnel, you know, this personnel who, you know, the rationalization of draft picks, I mean, you know, it's, it's sad that there is a circular blame game conversation about what's actually wrong in some of these situations, right? That stats for you two and seven, oh and four in the division, oh and five at home. Giants are four, 12 and one against NFC East teams since Brian Dable and Joe Shane took over. Giants have a minus 63 point differential. Cowboys in their division are minus 54 Eagles are 39 with a game going on right now, Washington's plus 74 put the Giants minus 63 pointed differential in perspective Cleveland is minus 65 New England is minus 76 Tennessee minus 73 Vegas minus 83 Jacksonville minus 52 Carolina is just on another level minus 146 but did you see Jonathan Brooks is coming back and making his NFL debut next week for Carolina at running back that is something to be concerned about. Joel thank you so much for the super chat to get us started there. Jim says Pat, now that it's clear we are several years away from contention. Would you be willing to trade Dexter Lawrence and Andrew Thomas for hydro ethics? I wouldn't want to stay if I wasn't all pro. Well Andrew Thomas injured right now I mean obviously he's a really good player franchise left tackle. I mean they don't grow in trees. I know he's been hurt a bunch now but here's the thing Jim you don't get better by getting rid of good players and forget the Giants for a second and just step away and just think about when teams give away good players it does not help them and yes for sure the Giants would be well served having a high enough pick to get a new franchise quarterback that's a part of this but if you like the Giants and these are players who say Juan Barclays Xavier McKinney, Julian Love, guys like that those are players who are not at premium positions that Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence play but getting rid of those players and replacing them with players who were not as good has hurt the team and if you got rid of a Dexter Lawrence if you got rid of an Andrew Thomas the team would get worse and you would be in a position where you would have to go find premium players at those positions again. Now you know you could I think it's fair to say I don't think it's unfair to say that deep down players like Dexter Lawrence and well sounds like the way the Malik neighbors talks right like there are players of a certain stature for them to be on a team like this especially when it's just year after year of losing it wears on them and you can see it wearing on Dexter Lawrence and certainly he has believed for years that the Giants were heading in a certain direction that it is clear now they are not. I don't think it would be a stretch to say probably be welcome for guys like that to be in a situation where they weren't constantly talking about losing but you know Dexter was asked last week if he is look you know if this is a situation he wants to bail on and he said in so many words no and kind of dismissed the premise. Kyler says what has Brian Dable done for people to keep saying he's good if we can say a player was good because no tape why can't we say that about coaches 2022 no tape on Dable as a coach everyone knows his tendencies. Agree Kyler I think that today's first half was an indication of what happens when you know Dan Quinn and Joe Whit got a game full of tape on the Giants and on neighbors and on Jones I thought their first half scheme against the Giants passing game and against neighbors I thought it reflected that the commanders adjusted and the Giants offense had a plan to run the ball but no answers on how to unlock their passing game and you know eventually they did eventually it happened but it was too little too late and of course again it just ended up being a resorting to like feeding the league neighbors but you know neighbors had a quote about kind of the balance of the offense and running heavy in the first half he said when you run the clock out in the first half you're scratching in the second half to score points as many as possible. As an offense you've got to be versatile you've got to be able to run you've got to be able to pass you can't pick between half and half what you want to do but like I said I'm not the play calling so iconic what's up he says will you be in the Munich game I think we need to clean house or we will be in the bottom of the division for the next ten years I do I do hear you iconic you want to hydrate pick you do want to get some assets but you also don't want to empty the cover to the point where you're going to finish with two three or four wins because then everyone's going to get fired I do think it's possibly heading in that direction we will see unfortunately I am not going to the Munich game iconic the New York Daily News decided that both of these teams are not competitive and with it being an expensive trip there is other work that I can accomplish and still cover the cover the team and be here to provide you guys with in-depth coverage of the team work in the phones and really only missing a Friday practice in Munich it's a walk through and then the game I can't say I'm happy about not going to the stadium I always want to be there but I will I will still bring you guys the first rate insider coverage that you're always looking for and of course we'll be there during the bye week for everything going down Joe Shane press conference etc and then right back at it on the giant schedule coming out of the by believe they have the Tampa Bay Buccaneers after that so so yeah no points for me in Munich unfortunately no Steins in Munich and no international travel for me Gary says hi Pat did you ask table why he keeps going for two they're killing our momentum when they fail to me just kick the extra point going down by seven shaking my head Gary unfortunately his stock answer about had a little space that was planned the plan was to go for it coming into the game he said that he felt good about the plays they called they just put a stop to it the commanders stop them on defense you know to me I thought the tone of tables press conference was that the he felt like the offense did its job and the defense didn't extra Lawrence said the same thing I do feel like you know it's not like 22 points is very many points in the football game certainly there were you know certainly the defense was a huge letdown today across the board and if they got even a semi respectable effort from the defense then they would have had a chance to win it I agree with that I still don't think that the offense was anywhere close I mean they had zero passing yards at halftime I don't know how you could say that the offense was cooking you know I do believe that one one thing I thought was interesting looking at the post game comments listening to Jason Pinnock listening to Burns and Lawrence guys on the defense I do feel like this is the second week that someone on the defense has said the words scheme to me discussing the idea of what's going wrong on some of their big plays in other words that the offense scheming up plays and tendencies to either counter what the Giants defense is doing or to take advantage and to catch the Giants defense off guard or to use their tendencies against them no one has pointed a finger hard and directly and by name at Shane Bowe and the coordinator and at the coaches but I definitely feel like the Giants defensive players view their breakdowns as multifaceted like Pinnock said there were various Pinnock said there were various ways that the Giants defense is getting beat on the big plays he said sometimes it's just mono we mono we lose the battle he said sometimes it's schematic and then he said sometimes it's situationally they're just calling the right play so he said the over route over top of the defense to who was that to was that let me get let me get this correct oh to alamity is a chaos the over route to him in the fourth quarter he said you know was like situational let's run a hard like run play action get them to bite go over top so when you need meal time inspiration it's worth shopping king supers for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouthwatering meals and no matter what tasty choice you make you'll enjoy our everyday low prices plus extra ways to save like digital coupons worth over six hundred dollars each week and up to one dollar off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings king supers fresh for everyone fuel restrictions apply you know multifaceted for sure but pinok was for sure one of the and several of them were mentioning and this is the second week to like in Pittsburgh there was a comment somebody passed about the scheme so I feel like that is for sure something to keep an eye on as we go but definitely you know yes the defense had a bad day today yes no sacks two quarterback hits bad angles lots of missed tackles but the offense played a part two so you know full team loss which has become commonplace unfortunately alright Timothy says apathetic yes that is how the fan base a large part of the fan base I think feels at the moment the crowd was better today than I expected it to be was more of a full house and I expect I don't know if that's the weather I don't know if it's that it's still fairly early in the season you know even though the Giants are done you know it is November 3rd it's not December 3rd so maybe that's a part of it but the fans left disappointed such an interesting dynamic to now that you have a Daniel Jones in the quarterback situation where it was headed towards a benching but now he played well and he wasn't the reason you lost the game right so Joey B says Pat Theo Johnson has more drops than rain he is trash killing them just killing them Alex as horrible coaching decisions Jim says Giants not resigning Tyrod Taylor how is that decision going to play out now when they have to bench Daniel Jones they must be afraid of going to lock well I would say do you think Daniel Jones the reason they lost I mean I you know I don't think this is that game I mean that's my opinion but I do agree Jim with your premise I do agree with what you're saying in the sense that they are much less comfortable going to their backup now you have to believe then they would be if Tyrod was still here still makes no sense to me that they thought Tyrod was coming back in the first place. Drip says the game was closer than I thought we got swept by the commanders yes first commanders sweep of the Giants since 2021 Chris says I do think they should play corners in press instead of zone Diate banks is better in press than in zone that's what I will say George says arena securities most fear ban on Sundays when they just want to go home the one and only Pat Leonard George thank you appreciate you you know you know who it is you know the name you know the name. Tyler says Kafka is saying this is not on my hands Baldy my offense went to and won a playoff game can't blame me now Baldy you guys are funny. George says what do you think is going to happen to trade deadline Pat. I think Aziz gets traded I'm not sure if Dari Clayton does anymore with the concussion we'll see you know other than that hard to look at the Giants roster and see like pieces all over the place that would bring value back to them be interesting to see David says what does my Kafka do during games and practice I will say this about Kafka that hand off to Dari a slate and to me looked a lot like a Chiefs play didn't it and listen I'm Brian Dable gets credit for calling it was a nice call at the right time in the red zone think he was a 11 yard gain in the red zone help set up a touchdown so good call by Dable and he deserves credit for a good play so if he installed it might be his play but that looked to me like a Chiefs play like maybe a Kafka wrinkle during games he's up in the box believe what he's doing is helping track the defense the the Washington commanders and the opponents defensive tendencies just like other assistant coaches and even scouts are doing tracking personnel things like that to try to get a read on how to evolve the game plan so kind of I would I would describe him as on the periphery of the process and the conversations involved in it but on the periphery Jonathan says if we lose to the Panthers we're only winning two games this year I predicted them to win four games and I might overshoot the mule says what a game Germany is going to experience you'd say that again George O says I wonder if Pat questioned Dable on his job security well I think I don't know if you're taking a dig at me but I hope this game shows you and this season shows you why I asked him that in week two hope it justifies it maybe you don't view it that way but that's how I see it Patrick says I have nothing left positive to say every weekend it's the same thing what's the purpose of drafting a top tier wide receiver if we aren't going to use him well you hope that you're just getting a really positive exciting building block that in the long run is going to be like a foundational piece right so that's that's the hope that's the intention that you're trying to do there so you know theoretically you have neighbors and then you get the right quarterback on board that's how you turn into a good program is by stacking great players right so that's the idea that's the hope they hope it turns out that way but we will see all right let's see manzo says I don't believe it's fair that Shane and Dable didn't have a chance to draft their own quarterback but at this point they I don't think they deserve to we have no depth that quarterback or tackle yeah I agree ideally they would have drafted their own one but they've also played a huge part in all the decisions they've made to retain and re-sign this quarterback to put themselves in the position they're in now to not protect that quarterback the quarterback can still make good plays when you protect him when he has weapons but when you don't deploy them properly you don't manage games properly you don't draft well so you don't have a good line and a good defense then the quarterback obviously is flawed and not good enough either in key moments when you need him to be it's just an overall it's an overall shutdown it's just there's problems everywhere Will says Pat with more than a decade of bad hires mis-draft picks and poor leadership what are the chances ownership outsources to a third party to assist in the next hiring cycle if Joe and Dable are gone I say zero percent chance Will that doesn't you know unless the unless the Tisch family forced it I don't think that would happen I guess you know it would be it would have to be the way that it happened before with wellington Mara and his what was a nephew I believe where they didn't get along and so then it required the league to mediate and George Young ends up getting placed and then you know the Mara's version of the story is that wellington wanted George Young but he knew if he suggested it would get shot down so he suggests he asks the league to propose it right so you know I guess there is precedent for it but you know I wouldn't I wouldn't say that I would expect that Dave Z says Pat thanks for all that you do you got too bad every week for the past 12 years it's been just demoralizing 2016 and 2022 were bright spots to a degree but other than that we've been in the doldrums I've lost faith yeah Dave it's hard to have faith right now I think one major takeaway I have for my time covering the Giants and listen I'm not saying this is easy I know human nature is to you know when you're start for success and you have a little bit of it even when you're trying not to overreact to it you get excited you start to feel like okay this is what we were going for it justifies the decisions you've made it tells you you're on the right track but you mentioned that 2016 and 2022 seasons the Giants have such a hard time as an organization handling success they overreact to it and they make decisions to put themselves in a position where they try to win quickly and they try to build themselves to the point where they are taking that quick success and turning it into sustained success but the problem is you don't just become good overnight and the Giants in 2016 and the Giants in 2020 going into 2021 with Gettleman judge and then the Giants 2022 going into 2023 they have a little bit of success and by success I mean forget the record or whatever you know like in 2022 they were 9/7 and 1 they weren't some great team they just wildly exceeded expectations on the outside and so exceeding those expectations it's like they they go all in they trade for a Darren Waller they make these big-time signings they splash money where they think that their one or two moves away from turning themselves into a contender and somebody is going to turn over a new leaf and what they end up doing is they don't stick with those processes and they end up over over investing in a flawed process that is not ready yet and what happens is they set themselves back by doing that and so what they need to do is yes stay the course but stay the course on a good process like I don't think this current process is a sound one I believe this regime already did the hey we exceeded expectations in year one we're good now we figured it out we we know how to deploy Daniel Jones we're good enough as coaches and as evaluators to now build this the right way with this player and not that player and it fell right on their face flat on their face over evaluating their own talent and their own abilities in that regard with this roster and now they're trying to buy more time but the process was flawed from the beginning that's that's how I view it Daniel Hurst checks in with a ten dollar super chat Daniel thank you so much Daniel's giving you guys an example of how to support the channel here talking about live with Pat Leonard on the Believe Network and on the YouTube channel PL on NFL that's the home of all of my Giants interviews I'll post Brian Burns' full post game interview on the channel a little bit later also some fun interviews and videos whether it's from practice or the locker room or just me talking about my time on the beat on YouTube shorts a lot to digest and consume on YouTube including 11 minutes of Jerome Henderson discussing Deontay Banks' benching his accountability and everything that is on the YouTube channel as well I think once you get in there you'll really enjoy maneuvering around and learning a lot about the team supplements and compliments obviously the work I do at the New York Daily News but this is a great way to support the channel Daniel Paying for a ten dollar super chat I get right to his question or comment first also great way to support the channel is to go to our sponsors that is Mind Bookie boom chaga and estate 98 coffee my bookie the sports book boom chaga mushroom super drink and estate 98 coffee so Daniel says day ball going for two why is he allowed to keep getting away with this stuff his play calling alone should get him fired he makes Daniel Jones worse Daniel also I feel like it's a huge let down for the team in these moments where I think it's a huge let down when the Giants finally get in the damn end zone and then instead of kicking an extra point to be down seven you go for two and don't get it and everyone comes off the field like well we kind of failed you know and now you're down eight and now you're still chasing it and you know I don't like it you're not just any other team the analytics have to change based on what your team is you're a team that doesn't get in the end zone easily it doesn't convert easily you get in the end zone kick the extra point stay down seven then you kick the next extra point and you you're only a field goal away now listen today maybe it doesn't change anything because the Giants weren't stopping the commanders I mean this game easily could have been you know you saw at the end the commanders are ready to go score another touchdown they get down to the one-yard line and then they just run out the clock but they easily could have made this 34 to 22 instead of 27 to 22 there at the end so you know maybe it doesn't necessarily make a difference but Daniel I agree I think he's not reacting to how his team is actually not good at this I think that um Dable gets caught in the moment of trying to prove he's aggressive and trying to put up as many points as possible and you obviously had the um you know here's an interesting thing to follow too so in week two Graham Gino is hurt they don't elevate a kicker Graham Gino then gets hurt even more on the opening kickoff they don't have a kicker the rest of the game they try Jamie Gillen on an extra point he misses and then what happened Dable went for two every single time went for every four down obviously one of those one of the one of that that was one factor that cost him the game now was Dable trying to make a point to somebody in the organization there that if you're going to have me play without a kicker here's how I'm going to run the game he didn't say that I'm not putting words in his mouth but is that a coach saying like look at the hand I've been dealt here's what I'm doing because you look at this game now Jude McComney did kick a field goal right he made his only field goal and he made his only extra point but then Dable in the second half is going for two point conversions on these is he trying to make another point is he frustrated that he has Greg Joseph now on injured reserve now he has his fifth kicker on injured reserve in the last two years combined I don't know something to consider though something is off here how about Brian Dable's answer when asked if he could do anything differently considering all his kickers keep getting hurt in practice he says no no you mean no Jonathan Ryan says I bet that Rangers beat is looking real good right now I loved covering the Rangers especially because they were a good team for a lot of times I was covering them but I will say football is family friendlier that is for sure and thank you for that super chat really appreciate that there Jonathan Patrick says hey Pat what do you think about the Giants instead of trading Slaton if they trade Wandale Robinson I think Slaton is way more valuable than Wandale I just feel like sometimes they are feeding him because they drafted him Patrick don't hate that idea I agree with why they feed him and why they use him so much he he was a talented gadget player coming out of college and I still think that's what he is he's not a full fledged you know NFL wide receiver he is a playmaker who is more of a gadget player that's what he is let's see all right Patrick thank you very much for that super chat it's 20 bucks right there in the kitty from Patrick Evans really appreciate that I don't know what you could get for Wandale that'd be an interesting question I mean he is an offensive weapon maybe a team that already has like a number one receiver a number one running back a tight end they trust and even a secondary receiver that they like you know a guy where you're not starting him you know you're you're plugging him in and you're using him in kind of critical key situations as like a you know kind of a creatively deployed playmaker I could see that but I don't know what he would fetch that that's that's kind of an interesting question there um all right let's see thank you again for that super chat Patrick really appreciate that all right we are going to do a an estate 98 trivia question so stay tuned stay right here on talking ball live post game with pat Leonard first I just want to tell you guys again about our sponsors my bookie is a sports book it's rolling out the red carpet for sports betters this year go to my bookie.aj the link is in all my social media profiles and here's the best part the deal they're offering now through me here on the believe network and on talking ball with pat Leonard 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Pat's picks have been hitting hitting these giants props these giant sprinkles Daniel Jones anytime touchdown hit today that rushing TD hit so you making some money there so go to my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere also brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you can easily pour this natural liquid supplement into any of your favorite drinks I put mine in my coffee every morning and immediately feel the difference I personally have felt a post-workout like energy boost with boom chaga also has the ability to lower cholesterol reduce inflammation and improve immune and heart health with its beta gluten and antioxidants go to boom chaga.com to place your first order and if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen you will get 25% off your first deposit right now that means a month's supply costs you only 30 dollars start feeling the difference today boom chaga.com right here talking ball 25 QR code and brought to you by estate 98 coffee estate 98 coffee sponsors us here you want to go to estate 98.com backslash talking ball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order especially coffee concentrate perfect for when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines all right let's get to our next comment or question in the queue here Patrick again thank you very much for that um I promise the estate 98 trivia question upcoming as well so actually let's go right to that so for those of you not familiar with this um estate 98 coffee our sponsor they give away a free bottle every talking ball live with pat Leonard when I ask these questions it is giant trivia we ask a giant trivia question I'm going to give it to you now once I ask the question you are going to drop your answers in the comment section the first person to answer the question correctly gets a free bottle of the state 98 coffee so once you get it right I will call you out for getting it right and then you will direct message me your inst on instagram an address or a p.o box for me to send this free bottle of the state 98 coffee okay so here is our trivia question of everybody is ready and locked in okay so Daniel Jones in this game through his first touchdown pass at MetLife Stadium in 672 calendar days obviously he had the torn ACL so that's a span of six games at MetLife Stadium that he hadn't thrown a touchdown 672 calendar days that he had not thrown a touchdown pass at MetLife Stadium the last touchdown passes he threw at MetLife were on January 1st 2023 who were the two wide receivers that Daniel Jones threw touchdown passes to in that game who were the two players that Daniel Jones threw touchdown passes to in that game on January 1st 2023 the last time he threw touchdown passes in a game at MetLife Stadium bang right away whoever a is gets it immediately never seen somebody get a a question correctly that quickly a gets Isaiah Hodgins and Richie James that is correct a please send me your address or p.o box on instagram please give me your name too obviously your name is not listed here but drop your name and your address there on instagram my instagram is pl on NFL direct message me there and you will get a free bottle of the state 98 coffee mailed directly to you congratulations on winning and man a lot of people didn't even have time to get the answer in or even a guess in because egg was so quick nice work Dave Z that is funny Homer Jones and Del Shofner that is funny Patrick drops it again 10 bucks in the queue he says instead of using wondale for gadget plays pat why don't they do the same for neighbors just to get him going early well Patrick they actually do like doing a lot of those types of catching runs with Malik the third the first third down today first was it their first third down the play where they rolled or might have been their second drive where Theo Johnson kind of leaked out to the right and Daniel Jones threw it and it either got batted down or tipped off his hands I can't remember exactly he was under he was under pressure on that play Malik neighbors was running like that kind of hard like drag route from the left to right you about five yards off the line of scrimmage if that crossed the field from left to right and they've been hitting that a lot and those catch and run plays are plays that they like to do to get him the ball in space now that's not a trick play necessarily but it's the same idea and Washington had him doubled on that play they were ready for that play also they tried to run neighbors a slant to neighbors at one point and if you saw that in the first half the commanders they knew exactly what was coming based on the formation down and distance situation of the game and they had like two or three guys waiting to jump and back down Daniel Jones's pass and that's exactly what happened so that was definitely part of that scheme we're talking about of uh Dan Quinn and uh Joe with junior being ready for what table was throwing at them. George says I wonder if oh I saw that already yep uh let's see. Manzo says oh yeah okay let me get back in the queue here. D-Pat says trade all expiring contracts and embrace the tank hoping we lose to quarterback hungry hungry Carolina. Will says I have little faith in Maritish making the right higher the Giants have become the Knicks prior to them finally turning the corner uh need to nail this higher and then focus on the draft and the right players. A-2 says was Burns playing today he I must have missed him yeah you could really say that about the entire pass rush. D says yeah Burns knocked down a ball at the line yeah he did that and made an early run stop on the edge but um you know D to to D's point he made a couple of plays to A-2's point not nearly enough and the pass rush was a no no no show. Manzo says we need Mike Rebel he better be our number one candidate for next year we need someone with experience yeah that'll be interesting there's already a lot of Titans guys here uh already including in the front office Ryan Cowden a friend of Joe Shains um so that's possibility um we'll see I mean you know Rebel definitely ended up getting pushed out of there for in the Titans view being too strong of a personality be interesting because this is a very and extremely at the moment GM centric organization and really always has been um in in the large part or in in a lot of ways uh recently is what I mean so let's see expect Aziz to be traded Pat yes I do Antonio A-2 says nice tie Pat thank you A-2 appreciate that I hope you guys went and checked out my arrival videos from today I thought it was good I enjoyed doing those all the time players looked good Dave Belton bringing one of the fits of the year to the game that's over on my Instagram account right now but I'll throw it on YouTube shorts later as well Will says I'm okay with trading diaries late and trading Aziz who is becoming a solid player at only 24 years old is criminal Eagles will try to sign him next season Joel says this backup left tackle plan is terrible D wants to know if Aziz or his team reached out to the Falcons I personally think that's a good fit for the Falcons um I don't know I don't know about people reaching out to the Falcons from Aziz's team um I do know that he's he would be uh you know a good fit there uh Georgia product right so um that would be home right Alex as dable has to go Gary says dable looks to be in over his head Pat I'm not sure if he's the guy to get us out of this Bermuda triangle D says dealers looking into wide receivers who are they targeting slate and on their radar are looking for someone better um so the the Steelers have Pickens they have Calvin Austin definitely think um one thing they would benefit from is reliability of wide receiver I mean those guys give them some big play ability Slayton gives big play ability as well is also pretty well rounded as a guy who can help can block make those catches underneath for sure um you know specifically are the other steelers trying to get Slayton haven't heard that yet um I know that they are they've been looking at all the top names um you know off season into the season so you know I think I think they're big game hunting so if there's bigger game out there than Slayton I would think they would go for that but if Slayton is the most reasonably priced useful player uh would not surprise me the Texans look like a team that needs a player like him I mean they're getting Nico Collins back eventually and Tank Dell um Tank Dell's out there but they don't they really don't have much useful outside of that they look like a team like that too the only question was Slayton is he has the concussion now and then um you know what are you getting back for him right Patrick says tell dable to have Theo Johnson hit the jugs machine he can be a great weapon if they use him right yeah the problem is he's been showing drops since training camp that's the problem Johnny says how does Shane survive after drafting uh how does Shane survive never drafting a quarterback in the three years he's been here and going into this season with only a zudu as the backup tackle Johnny I think your question is an answer like I think that's like a rhetorical question I agree Mike says dable seriously needs to answer for this game plan time to refresh start time to restart fresh completely Daniel Jones had a good second half since a 2 mostly after the game was pretty much done but at least he gave an effort this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance fiscally responsible financial geniuses monetary magicians these are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for pain and full owning a home and more plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it so your dollar goes a long way visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates potential savings will vary not available in all states or situations defense was absolutely useless yep that's well said big dash says he's pissed off big dash I keep saying we're gonna do this creator series podcast maybe maybe this is the week we do it if not this week next week you know sometime in the next view though I would love to have you on the pod coming up soon because I love doing that with authentic and I think it's time to continue those types of conversations because it's too much of the same old got to hear from the content creators got to hear from the fans you know we got to figure this out manzo says the giant's draft for position not talent that is a recipe for disaster yep need based draft mike says dable had to beef wink and make him leave now the defense is cooked you said it mike not made uh a two says burns was playing today wow Matt says Shane's best year was the year he wasn't trying to be good as he has tried to make the team better they have gotten worse so that's very interesting point joey b says can we go get john gruden feels like he's black ball Alex has horrible coaching today agree a two says dables play calling today made high school coaches feel better about themselves how is the diet going all he really cares about anyways david says why do so many giant players play with a big swinging mouthpiece hanging from their face mask use it in your mouth or take it off and they will play better it's not just giant players i think it's a lot of guys in general that's like player specific too just like types of helmets guys wear timothy says why would they trade his ease he's an inexpensive depth piece on a team with very limited depth well not their draft pick cave on coming back their draft pick i agree with you you don't want to give up pet young pass rush but he's also a player who's been hurt a lot in his career and he's healthy and producing right now outside of this game so it's like you kind of want to you can understand why you'd want to get something for that expiring contract asset you know before maybe you don't want to resign that player see him hurt again and now you could have gotten uh could have gotten assets you know all right let's see but i agree it's not like again like if you subscribe to if you subscribe to the point i said earlier about like you can't give away good players um then you would follow what you're saying dance as it seems like dable is in over his head at this point i agree Alex says Joe and Dave will have to go maybe Bill Belichick goes to Dallas and they beat us for years to come last place in NFC East for next decade nice job Mara how about Dak Prescott getting caught on camera saying we effing suck on the sidelines today as they're losing to Atlanta holy cow Mike says yep Shane too dance as the team is on discipline and lacks toughness that falls squarely on the coaching yep a2 says Daniel Jones is 24 43 and wagging his career Ty says what is dable really feeling um or how are we really feeling about dable seem like he throws him are you talking about daniel i guess it seems like he throws him under the bus weekly well today dables attitude seemed to be like the offense did well enough and the defense didn't which yes the defense didn't give them a good enough chance today but you scored 22 points including seven in the first half where you had zero passing yards i mean the first half looked like the Jets game last year in the rain when DeVito came in that's what it looked like Alex as they talked about smart toughened dependable haven't heard that in a while dance as i have a feeling this team will start to quit on dable as they continue to lose start to quit we did the update banks quit twice in the last month but yes Dan your point is is uh well taken dinky says pat i don't know if you can see the sideline but one of the two point tries i think i saw dable say something like if they could give him an effing chance regarding the o-line and Jones do you know about that no but i did i was watching dable during both of those and i saw him venting extreme frustration at both of them and especially on the one so on the i think it was the second one there was nobody open on the passing concepts and i didn't even think the protection was bad i just thought the routes they ran against the commander's coverage there was nothing open i really think in the first game i thought dable you know uh and i thought dable on offense you know outs out scheme in a lot of ways quin and joe witt jr i thought in this game quin and joe witt jr out coach dable betch says ask but ryan dable if he's going to give up play calling d pat says young guy needs some reps high and over slate and cough tank yeah right i hear you and yog says is diante banks elai apple um he is not flippant about wanting to be great he wants to be great uh elai apple was more in or less mature diante though i don't i really don't know where this is all coming from from banks i do think it has to do with the amount of pressure put on him and the defense by the offensive struggles the last couple of years that's my opinion samuel says totally disgusted with this team d pat says i am sending you to pass through some boom chaga now dances how about not being able to get off the field on third and 18 embarrassing terrible miss tackle drew phillips uh bad angle miss tackle tyler nubin i mean what are we doing i like to tyler nubin a lot as a kid think he wants to be great think he's got some great uh talents and tendencies but the young man looks lost out there in this scheme and on this field i think it's fair to say they miss wink martin dale in defense i think that's fair to say and shane bowin's been very accountable talking about he has to be better defense has to be better but i mean let's just holy shit i mean you know they were they had 31 takeaways last year as a defense how many they have this year let's look it up NFL team stats see so the giants in 17 games last year had 31 takeaways this year they have seven in nine games and they have i believe one interception on the season paulo says when can we fairly judge dable and shane i get get them and did leave a mess but his team has felt closer to a rebuild than contending the last two years makes me question move such as the burns trade the burns trade where they gave up a pick that they could have drafted a with a corner with and they used money that they could have resigned sake on with i mean and you still could have gotten an edge rusher that helps you holy cow totally agree yeah listen blaming you don't get a minute this point is just propaganda anybody who's still blaming on dave get a minute selling you giants propaganda that's what that is and this is what happens with the giants too this is why i was fighting the scapegoating of uh of daniel jones and only daniel jones and only the outday banks whatever it's because it this is what tends to happen like i could show you quotes about so many guys giants related or the giants are standing behind and how dare you question this person and then when push comes to shove and it's time to be accountable those people those same people get thrown under the bus if it means saving someone else's hide mike says oh and five at home oh and five at home i mean 22 points at home for the giants feels like 50 right a2 says bring back gettelman nyog says well they now bench daniel jones now that they are up to the third pick i mean didn't he play too well to be benched in this game i don't know this is what this one always happens with the giants they're in these uh awkward spots tank says i really loved our game plan lol zero yards at the half was almost impressive what are we even doing at this point exactly exactly tank it's not a real this is not it's not a real thing a2 says always starting over all over again not even yep thanks always starting all over again signed of a failed franchise in my opinion yep dinky says pat do you think neighbors will turn on jones and turn into a toxic teammate i do think uh his attitude and some of the things he says reflect that he's uh even if he's being honest that you know it doesn't reflect well i do i do think and i do think he's not you know he's not used to this losing today definitely pointing out that he doesn't call the plays and pointing out that the commanders have the right guys and the giants need to find the right guys i mean he's a 21-year-old rookie saying this a2 says neighbors throwing dable under the bus i love it and tells us shake him i had a2 says daily news saving money baby alpha says pat we cannot open up the game with an unenthusiastic non-inspiring or motivating quarterback that's fair intel thanks to giants will win five games intel says joe shane needs to explain his decision bancock says pat can you as dable if the carolina game is now a must win and if he loses carolina does he then feel pressure to be that he's going to get fired we can ask that for sure he is the odds on favorite or he was going into this this week to get fired he was the odds on favorite um dentists out on a new orleans ain't looking that safe i will say that dance as if they lose a carolina he shouldn't be allowed on the plane back to the states sauce p says we put some respect on washington we swept you definitely put what put respect on washington no doubt about it washington sweeps the giants for the first time since 2021 um jade daniels is that man he's that dude and um washington's offensive line bullied uh the giant's defensive line today and um you know just them having capable coaching you know no one's sitting here saying that dan quince and andy reid but just getting jack del Rio and ronda reveira out of here and putting dan quinn and cliff kingsberry these guys in here i mean look at the difference alpha says i think the whole team is ready to turn on the quarterback uh it's not just the quarterback though jadein is the best quarterback in the nfc says sauce p hey he's he's he is that man what do you want me to say he is that man mj says tank for camward we need to start over new coaching new management new quarterback chris as jadein was supposed to be our quarterback um sauce p says let me guess they're due for a win we are doing them just like we do everyone belt to ass that's a saquon bark league quote bring on pittsburgh and dallas we will dominate you says sauce p washington's super bowl coming super bowl wow big prediction there from sauce p mj says this defense is soft they can't stop the run totally mj no doubt they can't stop the run uh they can't get off the field and third down they can't tackle the corners can't make plays on the ball they don't force turnovers they're soft depat says one winning season and the commie trolls coming out of the woodworks commie oh commanders okay intel says daniel jones doesn't elevate the team mark says i'm a commander's fan i have great respect for the giants team and fans no to the dallas cowboys mj says banks is a corner and can't make a play on the ball when it's in the air he was not a good pick he's better impressed man but he's not playing well alphas says yes jones played at his average level whenever does jones drag the team to victory score 35 plus points yep doesn't happen then again uh his coach had a scheme that had him with zero points and zero passing yards at half mj says kafka is one of the best clipboard holders in the NFL dickie says pat was neighbors interviewed after the game if so what did he say so we covered this earlier but i'll say it again because i do feel like it deserves to be said again so two especially noteworthy malike neighbors quotes after the game first neighbors was asked about so he rationalized amid his disappointment that he would rather build something from the ground up because quote it feels better when you come from the mud and you start winning successfully when asked that the giants can do that here though neighbors gave an interesting answer quote yeah you've just got to build you've got to build up you've got to put the right people in place to be successful you've got to get the right keys you've got to get the right guys on the team to win obviously the commanders have done that they've got the right guys that they want to be on the team and they're winning wow man oh man what a comment from a 21 year old rookie and about the run heavy play calling early on and the did you know did you see it coming in the second half success coming he said when you run the clock out in the first half you're scratching in the second half to try to score points as many as possible as an offense you've got to be versatile you've got to be able to run you've got to be able to pass you can't pick between half and half what you want to do but like i said i'm not the play caller so those are malike neighbors' comments something that will definitely continue to be talked about intel says pat i would never understand it's been 10 years they can't fix the old line the lines did it yep pen a stool man what a player neighbors is good but seems to not have that good uh endurance by the end of games he always looks gassed and runs his routes slower says mj yeah also he nearly calls them a couple times in the second half by running his routes not to the depth that they needed to be on those conversions he got fortunate with some of those greedy says well he's probably talking about some of the stats we listed the giants are a cut and paste team and joe shane must be fired after the season says hank joey b says do you think we trade for anyone at the deadline no but do we just get rid of players for picks and if we lose to carolina do you see the bench and jones for the injury savings the rest of the season um jones will get benched eventually i think for the injury savings i mean kind of tough to do it after a game like this acquiring players would be a true move of a desperate regime that thinks it's going to get fired so if the giants acquire somebody right now for something expensive now you now you know that the general manager is feeling he that's what that would be bencock says pat it wasn't all daniel jones fault but he was just as much a part of it as dabel's horrible play calling that was a horrible fumble and led to a washington touchdown of course it was a horrible play i mean yeah bencock yes he fumbled but like that was a screen pass where he snapped the ball at play action and the second he turned to throw it the guy was hitting his arm like i i just you know how can you blame that play on him i don't understand a2 says one year fluke same year same thing happened with joe judge the owner has no clue what he's doing but he wants to be the man that's what happens when your success in life is being the son of a rich person else bencock says um uh let's see i also don't understand why dabel calls for a screen when they were running so effectively as no feel for the flow of the game now it seems 2022 was a long time ago flannel says pat dabel needs to step away from play calling again going for two points was just as stupid this week as it was last week gcn says giants better call bill bell check now tell him they are firing everyone he can run the organization the bears look bad the coach lost the team bill with bears top defense and franchise qb a2 says what props to the super chatters you guys and gals rock yes props to the super chatters indeed right now that is joe daniel jonathan patrick patrick three times dropping the super chats we also have black love 23 says bring in lewis riddick bill bellacek and kim ward i like be love with the plan the full plan with the gm the quarterback and um and the coach all in there really bringing some some juice to the chat i appreciate that um and yes patrick evans mvp performance right now on the super chats if you guys ask a super chat or pay for a super chat your comment or question will be elevated to the top of the thread here in the talking ball live with pat lenard post-game podcast i'm sitting in met life stadium after talking to brine dabel and the players in the locker room after the game and bringing you my in-person analysis of what went down in this game with the giants their players and falling to two and seven oh and five at home oh and four division and four 12 and one against nfc east foes since joe shane and brian dabel took over in 2022 all right let's see so looks like the eagles won a tight game with kind of a crazy ending there i haven't been watching it um but that win over the jaguars means the division now sits at washington seven and two philadelphia six and two dallas three and five giants two and seven so that is the nfc east at the moment theadore says why do the giants keep a zudu and neil pretty clear that there's no circumstance in which either will play to me it's just to try to prevent them from being huge talking points um i think that it's strategic in order for the general manager and coach and the operation especially the general manager in the front office the more evan neil and josh zudu are out there playing poorly the more of a conversation it is front of mind they are when they're not on the field those of us like yourself theo who know and understand what it means that they're not playing are talking about it but it's not as much of a hot button topic as them being on the field giving up five or six sacks so that's my opinion but still obviously reflects on your talent evaluation right flannel says the giants aren't in position to dump one del yet they're a thinner receiver a two says good question theo hirsch what's going on great to see you paul says dj is balling out ruckey moves says i'm rooting for dable of course as a fan however after games who is he accountable to the shane would meet with him and ask him what's going on and do our question reasoning behind certain decisions yes they they discuss these things you know they collaborate shane is very much a part of the operation so you know even though he's not calling the plays on the sideline and coaching the games joe is involved in everything with this organization so even even second guessing or questioning dables motives or discussing plays after the game the general manager is still a big part of these game plans and how the giants approach every every week so to me it's impossible to not like they're tied at the hip to meet dables successes are joe's successes uh dables failures are joe's failures joe's successes are dable successes and so on but this is a general manager run and driven process pers says pat what do you think about the giants drafting camward or jackson dart to be our next quarterback i think they have to draft a quarterback still need to personally like as far as the evaluations go i need to do continue to do more work on these guys and i will continue to um you know camward obviously having a great season dart an interesting player as well a lot of names um i can't sit here and tell you right now this is the guy the giants need to get i'm not an expert on it yet and obviously even even when you learn a lot about these quarterbacks a lot of people get it wrong anyway and yog says i agree wandell robinson is too small the way they are using him he lives and dies on yak never runs routes past the sticks and also he's just not he's not a jadon reed or zayflowers or any of these other guys who are so lightning fast at that size that they're catching they're like they're excellent at the catch and run you know silly goose says uh i didn't know scott beo covers the giants love it silly i have gotten that look alike before the scott beo look alike j fed says the quarterbacks in this year's draft are all trash uh mike wants to keep a z's and slate ryan says pat this is pertaining to the two point conversion calls can you please ask ryan dable of analytics factor in the league average or his terrible bottom of the league daniel jones run offense right good point like selective analytics you know that's that's a good point ryan that's pretty funny all right let's get to the next one here h5 000 says i said at the time that daniel jones side has signed his 80 million dollar contract that he would have to make big plays and win games or he'd be gone however anybody that puts this game on dj has pop Warner acumen oh totally everything you just said i agree with yeah this is not a daniel jones lost no doubt about it steven says not arguing you you assent of the giants but how do you explain the commanders when you say you don't become good overnight uh they sure look like they got rid of players clean house you think the year uh and then in a flash they're good right no that's the fair fair counterpoint steven i mean i think i think they already had building blocks in so ryan robinson jr running back tarry mcclorin wide receiver um you know adding pieces like an austin eckler or azac hurts you know for sure changing the head coaching staff and the general manager and getting the quarterback like it's start that's where it starts right so to me steven if you're if the argument would be well washington did it to me it's like well yeah they brought in a general manager a coach and a quarterback who all did their jobs better than the previous guys in here at those spots so to me that's an argument for starting over now someone could come back and say well that's an argument for letting joe shane and brian able to draft a new quarterback and maybe that new quarterback can be their jd Daniels so you could go that route as well but to me the the commander's becoming good overnight was more about changing the way that they operated and evaluated and then also obviously it helps to have the number two pick right like if the giants had the number two pick this year and they had jd Daniels probably be a different conversation right alpha dog says three drafts and not much talent to rebuild with just saying dance says this loss wasn't solely on jones but he plays his part in the losing as shown by the past attempt that was ruled a fumble instead of tucking the ball away and taking a sack i think that was on him so quickly that he didn't even have time to do that i i think putting that on him is ludicrous in my opinion dance as he is good for at least one stupid mistake like that per game and year six simply inexcusable Gerald says i would hate to give up a z's for a third round pick i don't believe getting a giving away good players and making other teams better man a third would be great for a player holy cow uh bancock says i did love seeing daniel jones play with visible anger he's touched out what was awesome yes it was and why oh jesus seguan is cooking the jaguars that is why the regime may need to go constant reminder of their ineptitude let's check out seguan's final statline 27 carries 159 yards and a rushing touchdown plus three catches for 40 yards and another touchdown oh my goodness plus i'm sure you guys all saw that uh that highlight um with him jumping over that guy seguan did lose a fumble that trevon walker returned for a touchdown in the third quarter so not a perfect game did did fumble the ball away did lead to a jaguars touchdown but ooh those numbers and that's what that's what i always say about so like lamar jackson i always think is interesting like when people complain about or when we talk about daniel jones and his shortcomings and the giants right one thing i think it's important to know is the great players in the league they're they're not perfect right they drop passes if they're receivers they fumble them off they're running backs they throw interceptions if they're quarterbacks whatever the difference with the great players is not that they don't make mistakes it's that they just make big plays too right so in other words like lamar jackson will have play games where he has two turnovers and they might both be bonehead looking turnovers where it was like that was incredibly avoidable lamar why did you throw it there or why didn't you tuck it away or you know whatever it is the difference is he also throws four touchdowns in that same game right so say quan barkley today you know with that lost fumble obviously it's like you give some you take it away but i mean let's let's think about it with those numbers he has what was that 200 yards from scrimmage and two touchdowns still making a lot of big plays save us today daniel jones daniel jones with um a touchdown rushing and two passing touchdowns so we had that fumble in my opinion that was the protection not him the protection on a play call where you can't afford that protection uh and that lack of protection but still um he produced he bows back he got you in the end zone three times so that's what you want to say all right let's see dkids as shane said that they didn't pay a 40 million dollar quarterback they handed off to a 12 million dollar running back and then dabel proceeded to hand it off 16 times in the first half you can't make this up also the eagles did pay a running back that for a 40 million dollar quarterback to hand it to them and they are 62 steve says whatever happened to jail in high they just don't trust him jdj says too many open wide receive wide open receivers on washington one in the boom chaga or we cover it well jdj it was a combination of coverage breakdowns and also zero pass rush on jdjj's jones today like zero let's check the pressure numbers so zero sacks for the giants two quarterback hits and let's see the giant heads had four pressures on 25 jdj's dropbacks four this episode is brought to you by progressive insurance fiscally responsible financial geniuses monetary magicians these are things people say about drivers who switch their car insurance to progressive and save hundreds because progressive offers discounts for paying in full owning a home and more plus you can count on their great customer service to help you when you need it so your dollar goes a long way visit progressive.com to see if you could save on car insurance progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates potential savings will vary not available in all states or situations when you need meal time inspiration it's worth shopping king supers for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouthwatering meals and no matter what tasty choice you make you'll enjoy our everyday low prices plus extra ways to save like digital coupons worth over six hundred dollars each week and up to one dollar off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings king supers fresh for everyone fuel restrictions apply four pressures two hits no sex. Rookee says any sneak peek on the question you'll be asking Shane at the buy uh definitely have to sit down and prepare for that separately this was uh you know I almost feel like a player right now just focused on this game right now Rookee but I will get to that and then we'll move on and do our best and and grind and keep working at it now we'll talk about that though for sure in the podcast as we go maybe if big dash wants to come on the pod we do a content creator pod maybe one of the things we'll talk about is kind of like unpacking what questions need to be asked in that presser what what the fans think that's probably a good theme for an upcoming uh chat that guy says why not give in an evan eel a chance can't be any worse than what we saw today from left tackle well because then people will be talking about it dave g says what's up with going what's going on with the evan eel situation I just think they know how it's going to go when he goes on the field and they don't want people talking about it because it reminds everyone he was the number seven overall pick zero interceptions from the secondary after nine games doesn't get any more pathetic than that says mancock steve says the fish stinks from the head marin tich have to get their shit together yeah where why haven't we heard from someone in the tich family i have no idea tiari says what do you think the giant should do at the end of the season pat i think they should clean house tiari i do matt says everything mara hates uh is taking place yes well said matt well said play calling his trash says fox it's not all on jones johnnie says when shane re-signed daniel jones he became the quarterback this regime chose they shouldn't get to choose another but mara seems to get emotional with these decisions it's all in mara's hands now but i agree with you daniel jones also has the injury clause that can force him them to bench him philip says that's true ashtray says jadon daniel's is not that dude yet their own line is way better than the giants ashtray could you name me three guys on the offensive line for washington can you seriously they're starting line today was brandy coleman coleman nick aller gretti tyler bia dish sam cosme and angie wily hardly star studded group including a backup left tackle i mean they're not supposed to be a great old line and they're not a great old line they're an overachieving old line again great quarterbacks this is what this is what happens how serious was shane on moving up this past off-season to draft the quarterback after watching hard knocks it doesn't seem like shane listens to anyone but himself johnnie i definitely got that per uh takeaway as well especially like he does collaborate and talk to these people but like in the saquon situation it was like he was getting good advice from some of these guys it was dead set on doing what he wanted to do um he did try to trade up he wanted to trade up but it wasn't happening with the teams that were up there they had quarterback needs as well um jane daniel was never going to happen like it's interesting that the giants wanted him and liked him but he was closer to being the number one pick really as far as talent in people's opinion than being the number three pick and then uh jake may was the other guy they really liked but they couldn't get up there so yes they were very serious they wanted to replace daniel jones this all season they just didn't do it the interesting part of it as well is that once they didn't get those three they did not draft like one of the one b guys like jj mccarthy or michael pentec junior bow nix bow nix that was what it was most interesting george says did the team quit on brian dabel um there has been some quit diante banks the most obvious i think the defense is just completely lost and i think guys shoulders have been slumping for a while now um not accusing all the players of quitting there but i do think um that you know they're out of answers they're out of solutions. kennen says pat the current giant situation reminds me of 15 years of losing the fall of the 63 season when pete rosell stepped in to rescue the henna fells most important franchise george young etc yep kenneth well said well said we were talking earlier about whether somebody needs to step in again from the lake or whether the giants would invite an outsider to do so i doubt it but there is precedent for you as you put it it would probably require an ownership disagreement for that to happen like it did last time jim says pat daniel jones is running well today he ran over two defenders on the goal line yep i don't put this loss on daniel diggy says pat those neighbors quote seem pretty bad but at the same time him saying he wants to build it from the ground up and earn his success is refreshing to hear hopefully he won't be a cancer to the team i agree on all counts there diggy will the neighbors interview be posted on youtube i think the giants are going to have that on their youtube channel i did not video record it when i walked in he was already doing the interview and i jumped in and heard those answers but i was outside the crush of people and cameras there were a lot of cameras in the giant locker room today i got hit in the back of the head with a microphone by one of the tv guys kind of kind of crazy jim says i don't disagree with neighbors keep him over dable and shane van cox says you make a good point bat i guess daniel jones had no chance on that fumble harper play call joey b says what's the vibe of the coaching staff is dable calmer this season amid all this losing disgraceful uh tenths a hundredth season yep uh yeah don't forget this is their centennial season uh the vibe of the coaching staff like bowing's been accountable jones been accountable everybody knows it's bad dables trying to like pretend things are okay and keep a lid on his temper because he knows that having a joe judge like press conference can put you over the top so he's trying not to do that but essentially he's either not answering questions or um just glossing over things and not fully uh going into detail it's almost like uh or wrote like uh kind of dead inside uh attitude coming out of the team is how it feels to me telecamsa sorry i'm late pat uh they put you in the ritilla utility room messing with you yeah no so this is one of those um radio or television booths i'll give you guys a look here so where i'm sitting i'm looking out on the field here at metlife stadium and so i'm sitting basically down the hall from where i sit um this is the area that radio guys sit in john mara and ownership have another box um you know some tv and stuff like there's a lot of guys over here uh doing different jobs on radio ownership boxes uh the coaches a lot of the coaches are up here as well like calf and those guys are up here and then we're down the hall but this is where i'm sitting is facing the field and says pat why are more people on joe shane a lot more most of the best players on the team are from gennelman and we know how well he did if you notice at a lot of the national reporters are very friendly at the moment to shane and to the giants operation and current regime i think that he is uh i think that he works the uh the narrative i think he's very proactive at it i think this current giant's regime including dable or proactive at it and i think that's why you're not always hearing uh five minutes okay thank you that's why i think you're always hearing you know a lack of criticism and it always ends up that somebody like me is viewed as like sticking out like a sore thumb when all i'm doing i feel like is saying what i see you know ricardo says daniel jones era is definitely done not for nothing coach dable has been horrible killer camp says uh oh yeah black fox's question is uh in phil sims days how bad were the giants phil sims uh two super bowls your boy hobby says pat who are some gm candidates we should begin considering shane is playing checkers let's get into that in our next chat hobby um or you know upcoming when we're preparing for the joe shane bi-week press conference let's get into that we'll put a pin in that hobby so we'll do more chats in the upcoming week and i'll get into that but they're about to they're they're gonna kick me out of the press of the press box here at met life so i do have to get going soon all right let's see ken peters has went to the game today got into long Lawrence Taylor bobblehead and our seventh loss so worth one thousand dollars and seven hours of my life i'm done ken peters speaking for the entire giants faithful with that comment patrick says when is cave on back i believe after the by eca says how can we get neighbors to washington low disconcerting seeing neighbors over on the sideline talking to daniels during timeouts instead of with his own team i thought that was a little weird brett says hubbert is a better run blocker than niel i doubt it what's up pat yeah i doubt that as well um let's see brett m says coach wink coach wink i hear that they miss martin dale for sure cori says every loss is a gift at this point i don't even get angry anymore just one step closer to a new quarterback rookie moose says hey pat thank you for doing this hope you have a wonderful night after this loss thank you lookie um let's see steve says thanks for the realistic take on things pat jdj you're welcome steve thank you for saying that jdj says dable is just keeping a poker face during all these post-committees exactly next thing you know he'll tell us that the only internal issues they have is when they fight over the last slice of pizza you guys so see through this regime now thank you for thank you for being on board understanding that i'm not selling any um lines of bs like i'm telling you what's going on here jim says thank you pat we appreciate you berry says pat do you think gable picking his own quarterback is going to change his theme team i do not tariq says nfl draft shadora sanders no one was talking about cam board till this year playing cream puffs like duke i don't trust anything in one year tariq i think that's a fair point and something you need to be careful of rick hoffman it's going to close us out here with a twenty-dollar super chat from canada says i don't trust any reporter who addresses brian dable as daves all enablers and are not pat rendered rick well said he is brian he is brian dable he is not coach he is not daves people treating anything with kid gloves around here not for me we are going to bring it to you straight and truthful and factual no agendas just the facts as he says in la confidential just the facts jack just the facts want to thank everybody especially our super chatters today Joel kicked us off daniel jonathan patrick went on a run a heater thank you so much patrick b love 23 dropped a couple in as well really appreciate that he also said if they lose to carolina we need to clean house and rick closed us out with a twenty dollar super chat uh let's see big dog says cam board was a dog at washington state he's been flying under the radar interesting joey b says do you think if we get a new gm and coach that wink martin dale would come back um i do think of giant's ownership uh reached out and tried to get that to happen that i do think that uh it would it wouldn't shock me i mean let's let's just face it week martin dale is in college he belongs in the nfl uh his scheme is made for the pros he's had top defenses in multiple different years and um certainly the defense kept them afloat last year and now they're scrambling as a team as a defense as a roster as an offense every which way i do believe if he were here they would be better for it but with this current regime it just wasn't a fit but yeah joe i don't think that's out of the question greedy says funny that you have a bad reputation for asking the questions that most of us knowledgeable real fans want to know greedy thank you so much for saying that you're absolutely right you're absolutely right and listen i'm not um i'm wrong sometimes too of course and i've worn it when i happen but not um i haven't been wrong about anything that was going to happen with this year's team yet bret says wink head coach we'll leave it there we were brought to you by my bookie sports book 10-year anniversary rolling out the red carpet for sports betters use the promo code patspix on the link in all my social media profiles and you will get a 100 match on your first deposit of fifty dollars or more all the way up to a thousand dollars uh plus we'll get a ten dollar casino chip my bookie bet anything anytime anywhere go to those patspix daniel jones anytime touchdown giant sprinkle on the prop bets hit today making you that money also brought to you by boom chaga mushroom super drink and natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory immune boosting antioxidants and heart healthy compounds you 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Let's see all right looks like we're wrapped up in the chat we're wrapped up here from MetLife Stadium and looking forward to doing more talking ball with pat Leonard chats with you guys in the days and weeks to come stay tuned on my ex and twitter account p Leonard NYDN and on my instagram tiktok threads and youtube pl on nfl for new giants content and alerts on when i'm going live next we're lives coming we'll have a first down with benny fowler again breaking down the week nine nfl action and um all kinds of uh content and new offerings coming i promise you're not going to want to miss it brian burns post-game interview full post-game interview i will be posting that later tonight check that on my youtube page you can check that out and please go read my new york daily news game story now where i have quotes from various giants also be writing a story in the morning on a z zojo larry on the new york daily news website talk to him about the idea of him getting possibly traded out of new york this has been pat Leonard from the new york daily news and the believe network here on talking ball live post-game with pat Leonard so i was about to sign off george louis just asked me are you doing a trade deadline show pat george um i was debating whether or not to go live on monday as i tend to or wait until we go uh you know like a tuesday night do a live then a tuesday night live is not a bad idea i'm just gonna have to see what what time is smart to do that uh when i can fit that in maybe we do a tuesday night chat maybe we do it wednesday to process what we saw on the trade deadline um so i will keep you guys updated on that maybe do a wednesday night where we process everything we saw on tuesday and also forecast what's coming um in that unit game against the carolina pathers thank you so much for being here thank you so much the numbers were big time tonight on our talking ball with pat Leonard pod podcast and post-game live looking forward to seeing you guys next time thank you so much to the super chatters and remember before you head out hit those like buttons show us that you like what we did here tonight take care see you later when you need meal time inspiration it's worth shopping king supers for thousands of appetizing ingredients that inspire countless mouthwatering meals and no matter what tasty choice you make you'll enjoy our everyday low prices plus extra ways to save like digital coupons worth over six hundred dollars each week and up to one dollar off per gallon at the pump with points so you can get big flavors and big savings king supers fresh for everyone fuel restrictions apply you've got questions oh Riley auto parts has answers need a pro you can trust who we've got that too no matter what you need our professional parts people have the training and expertise to help you do things right deep automotive knowledge just one part that makes oh Riley stand apart the professional parts people oh oh oh oh oh Riley auto parts hey everybody i'm Trevor sycamah host of the pff nfl show here to tell you what you can find on all of our shows throughout the week on muddays we have the great release show where myself and dal washman breakdown every single game that you just saw in the nfl on tuesday's we have the in the trenches show with ollie conley as well as the quarterback breakdown with seth galena on wednesday's we've got the ruckey review which on led year and the preview for the upcoming week in the nfl with carmen vitali we also have fantastic fantasy football shows bedding shows and college shows as well so make sure you are subscribed to the pff nfl show wherever you get your podcasts if you like the show please take a moment to rate review and subscribe it really does help the show to grow thank you for listening [BLANK_AUDIO]
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard emerges from the Giants' locker room at MetLife Stadium to break down their 27-22 NFC East loss to Jayden Daniels' first-place Washington Commanders @Bleav. Pat speaks to Brian Daboll and the Giants' players to bring you first-hand information on the game's biggest plays and key injuries, including comments from Dexter Lawrence, Brian Burns, Azeez Ojulari and Malik Nabers. Pat takes all fan questions and forecasts where the Giants go from here as they prepare for an international game against the Carolina Panthers in Munich, Germany.