Radio Miraya
2843: CRIMEWATCH: Understanding Crime and Effects
[Music] Oh yeah, it's a very good morning. It's just 14 minutes plus 9 a.m. Good morning. Welcome to Radio Miriah's Crime Watch program and welcome back from the news bulletin there. My name is Ayre LaSueux and this program comes your way every Monday. It's a weekly program and today we are happy to be speaking about anti-cattle raiding. I mean our cattle raiding, yes, and I'm happy to be joined by the army's anti-cattle raiding unit and today we have Abubakar Musho from the anti-cattle raiding unit and it's unfortunate that we will not be having someone from the National Police Service but instead we'll be having a Mosersky-Choncho Museum here to speak to us about the same. And yes, good morning. Welcome on board and this program aims to talk about crime and associated examples and we are going to discuss about this in more details of course anti-cattle raiding. So just to start off I want to ask Abubakar to speak to us about what he understands by the concept crime, stroke of fence, theft, cattle raiding and also examples of such crimes associated by the same. Yes thank you very much, our host Irene, our dear listeners out there, Sava Harihayam. Sava Harunur. We have woken up with a very favorite weather and I want to say this is good for our community members. Okay. Because once you wake up and everything is okay then it will energize you to begin on a very good night. Well, usually in these kinds of co-weather conditions people call and seek. They say they cannot make it, it's very cold and somewhat becomes a day not to work. Yeah, so back to the question that how do we understand these concepts crime, for fence and the like. I want to say from the very beginning in the creation of man, God put in place a set of rules that would govern, man is existence. We understand later a hurry power is created to support man in doing God's work. Now, the issue of crime cuts across every community experiences crime. Other people would want to call it an offense, yes, but all these are governed by the national laws of each country. If I am to say I'm at school environment, there is rules and regulations. Now, here I will talk in the perspective of the penal code act of South Sudan 2008. The question is what is crime? I now want to be very straight and say, right, a commission, an omission or any act that one does and is controlled with the law. For example, if I woke up today and I said it's a cold morning and I picked your jacket and used it without your permission, it means I have violated the law by picking what is not mine without your permission and I'm in one way or the other owning it and using. But if I came and asked to say, I'm feeling cold, would you kind of ask to use your jacket? And you say yes, it would be good. There are many cases, I would say, which I would give as examples, one of them is theft, which I have already mentioned. This is very clear in our South Sudan penal code 2008 among the offenses relating to a position of property. If you acquire property, then you must work for that property. Work, you are paid and you buy the property of your choice. Or if you are fortunate that maybe your background warrants a family member to give you property, then that is also good. You can acquire. But I would encourage that many times we should work out for a property that we desire to have. If I'm to have cattle, I should work, make some saving and buy a cattle. And this cattle will multiply from one cow to very many. But if another community member comes up and picks from the cattle that I own without my permission, that is a crime. So, cattle riding, of course, it is a crime in many laws elsewhere. Here we still have it, but we call it theft. I know it is work and progress. Now, whatever the case, anything that you do and violates the law should be treated as a crime. And I would encourage community members and those who are grieved to take these matters to the police and other local leaders. I know sometimes the police may be far, but leadership is everywhere at Payam, Atiboma. And they're like, so what are some of the other cases associated with cattle riding? Of course, we have seen how the rains are conducted. Sometimes there is use of violence, which may include use of fire. So, we see innocent lives being lost. There are elements of robbery. There are cases of rape, abduction and kidnap. But of course, sometimes those who get involved in this activity, this crime are high on drugs. So, there is drug-related crimes. There is theft among others. So, it is a whole set of crimes. That arise out of one main crime that we may be talking about as cattle riding. Right. And I also wanted just to have a follow-up on what you said earlier, that we don't call it cattle raid, although we have it present here. We said call it theft. Is there any particular reason as to why what we have here does not qualify to being tugged as a raiding? Yeah, thank you very much. I wouldn't say there is a reason for that, but I know that is work and progress. We are still a younger country. We are a younger nation. And legislation is a continuous process. So, I know with the time our parliament shall consider some of these to be included in the laws. Thank you. Right. Do you still have more to continue with before we move on to Mr. Chichoncho? Right. Yes, Mr. Chichoncho. What are some of the causes of these cattle ratings? Thank you, Madam, moderator. I am grateful to be present in this studio this morning. Speak to our dear listeners. According to the question, whereas we see that cattle raiding was traditionally and culturally practiced at a community level, as a community activity, just for balancing hards and restocking in the case of some diseases hitting drought, hitting and claiming some animals, it used to be taken simply like a community activity for just members to restock their heads for after those kind of phenomenon. But, you know, we need to ask ourselves why has it become of great concern in our communities today? Definitely. There must be some factors that have anticipated the problem. And today we are seeing it taking another twist. Whereas traditionally, during those times, we used to see our members using bows and arrows. It was really not a very big issue. But, like today, there has been a lot of invention and creativity into this crime, and it has caused it to become an activity of concern in our communities. Economically, people usually look at cattle raid, I mean, a cattle as their moving bank, because of a number of factors. We have had the spread of sivos, which have hit our region and particularly this country. And it has caused disruptions, a lot of disruptions in the economic setting of the communities. And most of the areas trade has also been interrupted. So, people resort to having their money kept in a cattle. But, why are people so much interested in it? One of the reasons being revenge, revenge, people wanting to pay back. And when you look at people having unsettled or unresolved conflicts every day, and people are keeping the anger, are keeping their mind, have reasons to pay back, because of having no means to resolve the conflicts. And as a result of having no dialogues, we see people planning to pay one another as you did, like killing my people, killing robbing my livestock. I also plan to pay back. So, one of the reasons why livestock stealing or raiding is becoming too popular to pay is because of failure to compensate or resolve some of these conflicts. Commercialization of raids is also another factor whereby we see a number of stakeholders coming in definitely invited stakeholders. People are most interested in this cow, which is really like a hot cake in our communities today. Because the economy is tiring around. People are looking at one cow as being a very big resource. And some people have come up to become like brokers in the cattle market. The middlemen. They are here in Cuba, but they are coordinating across the country. And so, we look at a cow as a very big resource that someone having it as one can change, really can turn around lives of people. So, people are surely too much interested in trading this cow, which they are not raring on their own, but on raiding and then trading in it. Also, cultures or cultural and traditional practices. Traditionally, as we already saw that a cow was being used like as a form of keeping wealth and defining status of social status of person in a community. And so, with this, we see a number of people who have traditionally been used to raiding in order to balance their heads, but also mixed with the culture. The culture, which is, I say, pastoralism, where people have almost nothing else they are interested in, like diversifying on their incomes, other than raring cattle. Also, including the climate change, because season is also coming in and changing the dynamics of the economic activities. We see people having no other resources than raring cattle, because for them, they can be moved from one point to another in search for grass, pasture, so it is basically one of the economic activities that people can be practicing, which is flexible. But also, having in mind that people are so much interested in defining their social status in the community. So, we find them not really willing to leave it. And for that reason, having a lot of people interested in stealing these animals to boost their economies. And as a source of bride price, paying, people find themselves having no other result or alternative of paying bride price, because other forms of bride price are not culturally recognized because of the setting. Well, things are changing. Things are changing, okay? That's very good. But everyone is interested in a cow because of its value. So, people or the youth who must marry by all reasons have nothing almost in their backyard. And where they are going to marry, they are influenced to pay high numbers of cattle, which they don't have. So, they have to look for means of acquiring dowry. And in most cases, which is through raiding. That's why it has become also very, very common. We look at also food insecurity because of most, okay, because of community conflicts and sometimes civils which have hit us left and right for a number of years. Really, we find ourselves in a fix where people are not have been deprived of really time to produce or to work on their own for development. And as a result, we find ourselves becoming poor, and besides having no food for ourselves. So, people resort to raiding for survival, to really to live. And this goes hand-in-hand with the peer pressure. Because most of the people who are involved in this are the youth, the age-set influence, because having a lot of needs, they have to satisfy. And so, they find themselves really grouping up, definitely looking at what their influence has all motivating factors among others are like drug abuse, which is commonly found among the young people. And we look at also preparation of firearms internally or from within and also from without, because of the civil strafes that have hit the region has influenced the illegal acquisition of firearms from left and right, even from illegal trade. And also from other sources. So, this secretion of firearms among the illegal hands has also exacerbated the problem whereby it is becoming a very big motivating factor in the hands of the youth. Also, those who have cattle, and are finding it difficult to keep them or to protect them from the raiders. Also feel like if they involve themselves in the activity and acquired more firearms to protect their animals, it can help to safeguard their animals. So, they need to acquire more firearms by practicing or participating in a cut rate, get money to buy or to exchange for firearms. That's one of the causes. Among others. Right. Well, thank you so much, Moses. It's just 26 minutes to the top of the hour. You are listening to the crime which program when we're speaking about cattle raids, the causes, what it is in itself. We'll be looking at the effects shortly, and Moses will be telling us about the effects. But we would like to find out more from our backyard, how this can be prevented. Is there a remedy for preventing cattle raiding? Yeah. Thank you very much, Irene. I will take it up from where Moses stopped. He said that cows can be moved from point A to point B during a drought, which may not be the case to examine. For example, maze, that you move maze from point A to point B. But everything has always an alternative. If you can't move a crop farm, you can bring water near. There's no, you don't necessarily have to move your animals around. So you can cultivate and also do watering of the crops, depending on the size of your garden. Yeah. I was here about a month and a half ago, and I said I had been to Terracaca. I found a very well-managed but mechanized plantation, and what was there, that time was maze. You couldn't believe that that is within our community. Now, my concern is the community is next to such a project needed to pick up a leaf. I said, "No, I can't go for extensive farming, but I can't have this on one acre, because whereas we keep cattle, we don't feed on beef every day. You need this onion. You need a carrot. You need a green pepper. You need the other vegetables. Other vegetables. What I saw along that road in Terracaca is a sign that not every place here is hash for crop production. We still have rain. You can grow something of one month to month, and then it will lessen the pressure on what we call cattle, because if we think that cattle is everything, then we may live out thinking about adoptionism. For example, livestock can be hit by diseases. So, what happens is at a time when diseases have hit, the livestock sector. Shall we say now we can't survive? No. So, we must think alongside those lines. Then also have investment in education and skills development. For example, carpentry and all of us put on clothes. So, where are these clothes that are stitched from? We can have tailoring. We can have brick laying, because a lot of construction is going on, but the bricks in Yuba are not many. You see the blocks made out of cement, most and the youth who are involved are getting a pay. I wouldn't think such a youth will get involved in the country when they are actually busy making money. Money where there are no risks is sweeter than money where the risks are obvious. So, that goes hand in hand with promoting entrepreneurship and innovation. You don't need a big enterprise to get money. I'll give an example that way I stay. We have a small garden. I don't think it is even three by three. No, very small, very busy. But we planted the vegetables and we have eaten for one year and a half. So, that reduces on the expenditure. If each household can think of doing something best fast, it will lessen the pressure on the cattle and then the outstanding claims. Of course, obviously, issues of dialogue must continue where there is conflict, misunderstanding, the communities must continue engaging. I want to say that the UN, the Civil Affairs Division, and all other actors have promoted dialogue. You find the community discussing with the community. There is one I attended in the Capoeira and you would see that the communities are hot, but when they are engaged, they're very handshake at the end of the day. So, we need to remind ourselves that we are one of the people, we are brothers and sisters, despite the circumstances. Then the other thing is about other social programs. I made the mission the last time I was here, that when South Sudan basket, basketball, all of us, we were all excited and we all knew what time the match was coming and the next match in the row. Yes, we kept tabs. Yes. I was reading that I think next week, Uganda is playing with South Sudan, the other side, then Uganda will come. Yes. And if you go to places like a manga team, you find groups of youth playing football and the skill is what interests me most. The skill is high. They are those who are playing netball and the other games. Now, when you go to music, when we came in here, I was telling my colleague, Moses, that we needed to have a Colabou. With whom the artist, yes. Yes, because the music here is so nice. And the industry is growing. Yes, the industry is growing and these areas that can help diversify like Moses had said. Of course, we appreciate the efforts of the security forces. You have just been talking about the deployment of the national, the unified forces. I had it on the program on the news. Now, all these are efforts that the government is putting in place to ensure peace for the returns to communities, but security can't succeed without the community. The community must appreciate that those of us who are in security are their children. And so, their children who are in security must be supported by giving intelligence information on the likelihood support of crime. Yeah. Number two, when you are a parent and you grow old, you become weak. Even opportunities reduce. They now go in the hands of these younger people, the youth. So, the youth must be prepared to be able to support themselves and where possible also support the parents who may be vulnerable at an old age. So, it is a whole set of activities and programs and projects that we need to roll out. Everybody playing something different and then at the end of the day, we achieve. Right. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much. And back to you, Moses, Kichoncho, about the effects of counter-rating, but others. Yeah. Thank you very much. Counter-rating has had a lot of effects among the communities and if you which have seriously impacted on people on these communities, like associated crimes, like abductions and loss of lives, which have deployed the communities of life of us, which is needed in our communities for production, food groups, production of other required resources and development in general. And so, this one has retided the growth of our communities, the growth and development in our country. We find also hard as losing their animals or their livestock and farmers having a disruption in their seasonings for production of the clubs. And this all hinders the income generation for the farmers and as well as hard as it creates uncertainty or it has created because it is continuous. And I see if at all the stakeholders don't really come quickly to join hands in this, it's going to hit hard the the local person or our citizens because this uncertainty causes more of begging, especially the youth that we have seen, who have left our villages and have come to the city where they don't expect raiding to take place. We see women who have also left their abandoned their homes and they are coming in the city at least to look for something else to do, all these as a result of these unresolved conflicts which are causing fear in the members of the communities or for the creation or revenge anytime. And so, all this has hindered development and investment. Also, we see markets also being disrupted one time we were doing community policing in one of the states and as we were still sensing the people about this cut rating. One of them came and told us, you know, you are still here but you know, cut rate does are coming. So, we ask they are not cut through here. No, they say when they are bringing cut through, they are they rated the cut in the market for exchange. They always do invade the markets and cause shootings, predict shooting and people run away. So, you can just imagine such kind of say, so we prepare to leave because we were fearing injuries. So, it was not safe for us. And generally, every other person who had the broad communities in the market, so people even fear going to the market because of fearing to encounter their raiders. And this as well, hinders business and general trading in the communities and across the country. This as well reduces the tax base because if the revenues are not corrected, Matthew, these these animals are having a lot of because it is a one big economic activity that can generate big GDP for the country. And if they are just taken like rated or exchanged, maybe within or through the borders, without the government collecting some revenue, then we are not going to collect anything from it. And the soldiers, all the personnel who are really working their night to protect and solve their communities really will not have something to pay them. And they will lock uniforms definitely among other social services that are required in the community. So we lose a lot in the service delivery. As well, we look at home sites because people are really killed. A recent example which took place in Europe, we see over 41 people which were killed. And over 47 who who were injured in the process because of one incident causing variations. And so property are also lost in the same process. So we're having a lot of losses and all this lead to full insecurity because people will definitely not have time to go to their guidance. They are fearing retaliation. And even the peacemakers would not have time to cause dialogues because people have run away from communities. Others are not interested because definitely I don't want to say that some are beneficiaries, but most of them are really fearing for their own lives. Because when the raid does come, they don't differentiate between who is peacemaker and who is zero. So in all this, we find losses both in life, property and as economically our country is losing a lot. Well, thank you so much Moses for that. And do you have anything else to add? Yeah, thank you very much. I would say that once somebody is sure of tomorrow, you can always prepare and cause production which at the end of the day translates into development. I'll give an example, a basic homestead who love these things. A building shelter, a toilet, a plate stand. Because I'm sure today I'm here and tomorrow I'll be here. Now, if I am not in that arrangement, you will visit my home and you don't find those things. That means we need to quite much to engage our communities. That even if you are owning cattle, you can have it as an improved variety. One time away in the a livestock coordination meeting, national livestock coordination meeting, that was last year in EPPO. And one of the vet officers was saying that they are looking at having breeds that give me risk. And that one time there was a competition and a local cow here could not even give a little. And here somebody could be having a number of such cows. That means you are keeping the cow for beef. And yet this cow can also be for what? Before you sell the cow, you can get too much money from the lyric. And even when you sell the cow, everything is processed to another level. For example, there are people who eat the hooves. The hooves can be processed into something else. The skin and the hides can be processed. The blood is also a delicas. Now, how about the dang? Me as a farmer, I will say the dang is very good for me because I will use it as manure for my what? So a cow is everything. If we can only understand and see how to benefit from it, beat by beat, then we shall be good to go. Well, gentlemen, thank you so much for making our time today and dissecting this very important topic. And I hope that our listeners have been following and have learned a thing or two moving forward. And as we conclude the program for this week, I would like to hear your final message to our listeners. I will start with the emotions. Thank you, Madam, our moderator. Thank you, our dear listeners for being good listeners out there. And I hope if we continue joining together the hands, really listening and acting, it will help to reduce this crime because definitely it is a very deadly activity that everyone has been using it to. But it's time really to give it up because it is having more of the losses disclosing to us more harm than good. I will look forward to seeing an improvement as we go on. Thank you. Thank you, Moses. Yes, thank you very much. It has been a wonderful morning. And as I crone it up, I want to say, who is involved? This could be our son. And if we are parents, can we talk to that son? This could be our brother. Moses talked about age set, can we talk among ourselves as youth and find it the most appropriate way forward, other than getting involved in crime and especially category, which has very severe effects from communities. This son, brother, graduates into you, a father and somebody's husband. Now they also get children. Their children would be happy to see their father. The same way their father would be happy to see their children grow. Our parents have seen us grow. And they are very proud of that. Graduates into a grand father. But somebody said, "Me, I don't have children." I'm not concerned. Those could be your cousin. Oh, could be a future husband. To you, our daughter. Oh, otherwise. So I want to encourage each one of us that let the engagement continue, because crime has severe and fire-reaching effects not only to the victims, but also families, perpetrators and communities generally. I want to encourage your stakeholders that we continue the engagement, the collaboration, and have these crimes reported to the police and the other local leaders. With the regular engagements, I believe we can go a long way. I thank you. All right, gentlemen, thank you so much for making our time to speak to us today. And we do appreciate your time. Thank you. All right, yes, and it's coming up to six minutes to the top of the hour. A very good morning to you. Thank you so much for catching us today here on Radio Mariah doing the Crime Watch program. And it's a husband of pleasure speaking to you this morning. My name is Irene Lazu, and I would like to give special thanks to Mr. Abubek here, Masiho, and also Moses Gichoncho, Mazima, all working with you and police today. It has been unfortunate. We're unable to have anyone from the National Police Service who are expecting to have at least the directorate of the border and livestock police, or even have the coordinator of the Transhumous or directorate of border and livestock. But again, we will be expecting them in the coming future. Thank you so much. It's good bye for now.