"You know what really makes us mad, is wasting money on CDs with only one or two good songs." "Yeah, tell me about punk!" [Music] "What's up, posers? Welcome to Punk WattoPod. I'm your co-host Justin Hensley. I'm your other co-host, Dylan Hensley." And this is the show where we choose one year random and select one punk hardcore emo or punk adjacent album from that year to discuss. Except for today we are Patreon sponsored today and we'll get into more of that later. But if you want to hear more bonus audio head over to patreon.com/punklotopod for $1 you get access to all of our weekly bonus audio where last week we did a chart dive on the Billboard magazine top rock tracks from the October 29th 1983 issue. A lot of words there for that that chart there. We had previously covered the 1983 overall charts on rate your music before so that's why we went to the Billboard chart and there are no modern rock charts yet in 1983, which I believe they start in '86 or something like that. But yeah, a lot of Jackson Brown and Genesis and Def Leppard and... Not very bad. Not a very diverse chart. Not at all. It's pretty fun to go through it though. If you want to read the best of '80s rock song music video YouTube comments, it's an episode for you. It's pretty fun. You can also join our $5 producer/listening club tier. That is where we will say your name and whatever it is you're trying to promote on the show every single episode. And you get access to our monthly listening club. Last week we did a Halloween themed episode on the cramps stay sick. So that was fun. We had a day... Sick. We had Dave Brown join us there. So if you want to get in and join the chat for November, go ahead and sign up there. And we have our $10 tier where you get to choose the album we devote an entire episode to, which is what we're doing today. So today's episode is brought to you by friend of the show, Dave Brown. Dave gives us options whenever he makes... Whenever he makes his Patreon submissions and he gave us a list a couple months ago that we used and then he got double charged because he forgot to take it off. So we're doing more of his picks from that list. And it's a big list. So I imagine that list will probably get used again in the future as well. But yeah, lots of good options there. And we went with a record from 1983. And per usual, we like to look at the other albums that were released that year. At least according to rateyourmusic.com/punk/thepunkgenrecharts. Yeah. It's rateyourmusic/charts/popular/album/1983/gecolonpunk. If you want to go directly to the page, we are pulling the EPs as well. So put a comma between album and EP in between those slashes. And you will get there. Very tidy. I do respect rate your music for how their pages are very well organized and clear. And once you know it, you can go right where you want to go. Yeah. Well designed, at least on that end. Not very much else about the website. But it's the most in-depth list of options that we have to do this show. So in 1983, this is the year of power corruption and lies by new order, which was the second new order record, the first one they did by themselves. We have talked about previously. We have. We did a whole episode on that one. We did that with Josh from Bloomer, late Bloomer, and self-aware records and spinning out pod. R.I.P. Long time friend of ours, friend of the show. Yeah. And when I say R.I.P. I mean, spinning out, not Josh. Yeah, not Josh. Josh is still very much alive and well. Yeah. We have speaking tongues by the talking heads, which is a really fun record. Interesting production on this album, probably the coldest production out of any talking heads record. No Eno, I believe. Right. This is one of the funny that you say coldest and it's the one after remaining light, which I still do feel like speaking in tongues is that cold of a record. I do. I feel like it's way more reverb-y than than rain light or even the other records. Yeah, I do. I think it has a weird, maybe it's just because it's the first record without Eno, excluding the first record that it sounds different. It sounds different enough that you're like, that's noticeably more distant, I guess. I don't know, because I feel like the records they did after this don't sound this cold either. Do they continue to self-produce from this record onward or is there anyone else that's ever credited with production? You know, I don't know. I don't think so. Yeah, I think they're from this record to the end, they are the producers. So maybe that explains it a little bit. Yeah, but I don't think. Yeah, it could be what it is. It's more learning curve and them trying to keep up with the sounds and the trends of 83. I don't know, I don't know exactly why it sounds the way it does versus either album on either side. Well, yeah, it's not making sense as right after, but the little creatures is, yeah, 85, so two years later about right. I like speaking in tongues a lot, you know, it's got burning down the house, making flippy floppy, girlfriend is better, and this must be the place. Yeah, some classics, much better than Remain in Light. I enjoy it more than Remain in Light as a record, yes. There's stuff on Remain in Light that I probably like more, but as an album, yeah, speaking in tongues is more fun. It's the right balance of like fun and, you know, weird, already talking heads. So yeah, we got Mermer by REM, which is, is that the? That's the first one. First one, right? Yeah. First album. Yeah, they had many of you before. And that's the first violent films record, right? Self titled. Yes, it is. Yep. They did it right. First album, self titled, right? Yeah. I still don't love a self titled record, but I will accept it if it's the first record. We have War by U2, which I believe we, did we cover that one as well? Yes, we did War. 'Cause War is Sunday, Bloody Sunday, New Year's Day. Yeah. Good record. Yeah, very enjoy it. Surprisingly good record. I guess I could pull up our, write your music or our episodes that we've previously done and talk about those. So we mentioned Power Corruption Lies and U2. We also did More Fun in the New World by X. We did that with Elise from Oceanator. We did, oh man, 45 grave sleep and safety and the birthday party's self titled EP with expert timing. And we did episode 38. Husker do everything falls apart and SSD control. Get it away with John Russell of gnawing. All these guys do is laugh and snark, laugh and snark. The episode that made Alparil, it made Alparil Mount and Nancy, we had both of them coming at us. Well, yeah, I mean, they just, because we misspoke and said that there was more than one person singing. I don't even know what we were trying to say when that happened to. Like maybe there was some backing vocals is all I can think of. Yeah, I mean, it was just like the range of his vocals. It was a compliment, if anything. It was like, I thought that it sounded like there were two different vocalists on the record and I was like, oh, there's not. That's weird. That's cool. Yeah, it's funny how mad they got at us about that. We weren't even that negative about it. Right, we definitely would have said way worse things about other records. We got the first years for fears record hurting. Yeah, this one features a pretty big song on it. Mad world on there. Yeah, really good record. Yeah, it is actually a really good record. Those first two tears for fears records are actually both really good songs. Songs from the big chair might be better. Yeah, I think it is. I mean, it's got shout and everybody wants to rule the world. Yeah, but now the first tears for fears records really good. I remember listening to that and being like, this is such a like cool, chill synth pop record like it's way more enjoyable than I expected it to be. We just covered Earth 80 Wolf's blood. Yeah, I guess we didn't look at the full 83 charts when we did that episode. We really only did the horror punk related stuff. Yeah, we did. Yeah, there's our album there. I misspoke before our recording that I didn't see it. I just scrolled too fast. So there's that over the edge by wipers. You know, we need to come back and do like a really good wipers record one day, a proper one of the first three. Yeah, because we've done we follow blind. Yeah, we follow blind 87 record. It wasn't a bad record, but it just wasn't anything special or stand out. That's how all of the later period wipers records are. They're all enjoyable to listen to and like they do the fundamental wipers thing that you want, but it's just like the songs maybe aren't quite as engaging. Yeah, as they are on the first three records. We have Echo and the Bunnyman's Porcupine. We have Rock for Light by Bad Brains, which is the one that got mastered at the wrong speed, I believe is what happened there. So he sounds like a chipmunk on that album. Is that is there a correct version of that listenable now? I'm not sure if they ever released. I don't think the version that's on Spotify is the correct version, but I don't know if there was like, Oh, if you bought the cassette version, you got the right one, you know, like that kind of deal. The reissued version has some extra tracks and altered track order, significantly different mixes in on most tracks a speed increase of the master, which results in a raising of the pitch by one half step. So it's the reissue that's fucked up. But that's the version that you hear on streaming. It is yeah, I just checked and it is like, it's like, why? Why didn't they fix that? I don't know. I don't know why they didn't just go back to the original master. I mean, I get they remastered it, but like it sounds terrible. I don't know. 1991 reissue remakes by Rick O'Kasek and Darryl Jennifer, which Rick did the original production. But yeah, don't know why they haven't fixed it. What makes a man start fires by the minute men's the second minute men LP and probably what like 15 minutes long. Those first two minimum records are so short, 26 minutes. Oh, well, longer than I remembered. But we got Rebel Yell by Billie Eidel. I just saw the TikTok served me a clip of Billie Eidel from some documentary or whatever, just talking about how he settled on the bleach blonde hair. And him talking about he was supposed to he was supposed to diet a different color. So they had to like bleach his hair first to then diet. But then she was like, Oh, I don't have the color. So it's like, Oh, that's fine. I'll just, you know, I'll just have the bleached hair for now and I'll come back and we'll do the color later. And then he like went to practice and with Generation X and like one of the guys was like so mad about his hair. He's just like, I don't remember why he was mad about it. Like, I don't know, I didn't fully understand the reasoning. But Billy was just like, what? Oh, fuck you, then I'm going to keep it. And he's just had that bleach hair ever since, just to be spiteful to that one guy in Generation X. It's a wonder that band didn't make it in the long run. Right. Oh, fuck you, I'm gonna keep it then. We have subterranean jungle by the Ramones, which features the smash hit songs. Nothing. We have outsider, highest trails above, soccer, therapy, good songs, really good songs and like staples of their like live shows and kind of on greatest hit's compilations. But people don't tend to be like, think of the outsider first, you know, but that record's great. That record, is that one your favorite? Is that one? Yeah, that's a I really love that record. It's, you know, 80s production. It's not great. But I think the songs are great on it. I think it's one of their best 80s. I think it's probably their best 80s record. We have the crossing by big country, one of the big music progenitors, progenitors who have the right emphasis on that. How do you say that word? Well, let's look it up then. It's one of those words that I've read more than I've ever heard said out loud, progenitor. It's progenitor? Okay. Yeah. Okay. So the second time I said it was closer again, the progenitors of big music without water boys, I guess, invented the term, but big country playing big music. I mean, come on, it fits so perfect. That record is great. That album is very, very good. Are we in the the big music revival era now currently? We've had we've had a little bit of big music. Do we in recent years? I don't know. I don't I don't know that it ever truly went away. Like it's one of those things that only a handful of bands ever did. I guess what Coldplay probably being the most famous band to kind of pick up that sound, which is just them trying to do you two. And then you two never stopped. But yeah, I guess there's not I don't know. I can't think of too many other bands that do this kind of thing. There was some stuff recently that I've heard that I feel like is doing a bit of a big music, and it could just be as much like a post Brit pop. Yeah. Influence. What was I listening to recently? Oh, the hive is record I was listening to. I listened to that half out half of it recently, not into it. But like the first song, I'm like, this sounds like you two. Then really, you think so? I just think I'm more you two than Oasis. I just hear you Oasis. I still hear that Brit pop thing. My favorite song on that record is the the last track on it. It's the one that sounds the least like a Brit pop song to. It's the one that has like that sample vocal line that they use. I love that thing. I don't know what that song I I listened to it back to back. I never do that. Very weird. Pylon released Chomp, some good old southern new wave from they're from Athens, I believe. Yeah, they were in Athens, Ben. And first social distortion record, mommy little monster. Or is it the first one? Yeah, it is the first one. Yeah, because the second one isn't until like five years later. We do have a water voice record, the self-titled album. So we have U2 water boys in big country all releasing records in 1983, which may be one of the most peak big music periods. And that's that's pretty much it as far as like big, big records, I think. There's some other interesting stuff, but yeah, golden shower of hits. Yeah, album, Joan Jett and the Black Hearts. Yeah, for the most part, I think we've hit most of the big ones there. So like, yeah, yeah, I think we missed. Yeah, we didn't mention the suicidal tendencies self-titled record. Yeah. Yeah, the group, baby, toy dolls. Come on, toy dolls. Yeah. We'll do a toy doll's record one of these days. I mean, that's the one to do. So yeah, we're supposed to one of like Bob's big feet or something like that, one of those records. Out of curiosity, what is the most listened to toy doll's album on Spotify? Number one song, Nelly the Elephant. Off of Dig that groove. Dig that groove is like the fourth most listened. That Tony Hawk boost didn't quite do it for it. Yeah, but it is on there twice. Yeah, it is. So we'll put it at like 3000, which would make it number three behind the other Nelly the Elephant. Two versions of Nelly the Elephant. Don't know why Nelly the Elephant is so big. People only want those two songs. That must be big in England, like that song being bigger in England. And that's the album to listen to. The second most listened to album is anniversary anthems from 2000. So yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to do with them. Sounds like cartoon music, but they look like cartoons. Yeah. So this one wasn't a normal selection. This was a Patreon selected episode. So we didn't do the thing where we kind of hemmed and hauled and chose which one we were talking about. If it was your turn to select and not one of the albums we mentioned, what would you choose from this year? If I was picking an album from 1983 to talk about that we didn't talk about already. Yeah, we didn't just mention. Well, how about in the spirit of what we're talking about? There's a couple of good punk EPs from 83. Men and men put out buzzer howl. It's really short. So I don't know that that would necessarily be what I would talk about, but worth mentioning, it is a great EP. And maybe I'd go with Metal Circus by Husker Dew. It's kind of long for an EP. It almost is an album. It's shorter than what we're talking about. It's 18 minutes long. But it feels substantial as a record. You know, we talked about Husker Dew a few times on the show. Yeah, we have actually. I don't know. You know, if we're keeping it in the EP lane, there's a Let's Active EP called a foot that was released that year. That would be in consideration for me, a little REM core. This EP is actually higher rated than any of their altis. So it might be might be worth listening to. They don't have any other EP, so it makes it easier. Oh, but Soma holiday, the proletariat was also released in 1983. Soma holiday is such a weird band. Very post-punky. They're from Boston. And there's a little mission of Burma in there too. So like that kind of puts it in that right, you know, geographical region. Interesting, very interesting band, the proletariat. Don't know how much info there is out there about them though. But yeah. So before we get into the record, we always shout out our Patreon producers. And while this episode is a Patreon sponsored episode, we also want to shout out our producers. So you would like to join up, sign up for the $5 producer slash listening club tier. And have your name set on the show. So we want to thank Brooks Phillips, Steve Long, host of the podcast, Rebel Rock Radio, Jason W, host of the podcast, a thousand plays or less, as well as the writer of the newsletter, songs about chocolate and girls. And of course, Dave Brown, host of the podcast, one band, five songs. And let's just get into it. So out of the list of options that Dave sent us, we selected, out of step, by minor threat. And now that you've been involved, I know it wasn't fun, and now that you've been involved, I get some next time. I thought we had the same influence, but yeah, you're pro-verbal. I've been flossed off of our board, but never but was wrong. And with a couple stats on the band, minor threat were from Washington, D.C. They formed in 1980. This was released April 1983 on discord records, and this was the band's third release overall. The personnel on this record is Steve Hanskin, Hanskin Hanson on bass. I don't know if that G is supposed to be silent, H-A-N-S-G-E-N. It might be a silent G. Jeff Nelson on drums, Brian Baker on guitar, Lyle Presler on guitar, and Ian McKai on vocals. And this record was produced by the band, as well as Don Z and Tara, who also handled the engineering. And yeah, we'll get into more later. But whenever we do an episode sponsored by Dave, hugely sends over a piece of audio. So let's just hear Dave's thoughts. Everybody, right? Everything I've done is wrong. You know, I tried, I tried to give it joy, I know. H-A-N-S-G-E-N-S-G-E-N. Too much, H-A-N-S-G-E-N. You think, the fuck why this? Third time's a charm, right? This is the third time I'm trying to do this. Now it's 5.56 in the morning. So, gotta hope this one turns out. Anyway, what's up, posers? This is Dave Brown, and for this Patreon sponsored episode, it's that time of year. Yeah, I always like to do a few of these year for the gents. And as always, I go into the Patreon gimmick, you know, I switch over to the $10 tier, I X out, and then promptly forget about it. And it goes by at least two months get charged. And so yeah, so this time, we're going from the same list I sent you last time. So next year, when I do this again, I will send you guys a whole new list of albums to choose from. And I always do this instead of just sending, y'all, you know, one record. I have a couple times, but normally I send you like, okay, here's a list of records. And this time around, I sent you the potential list I sent you had three albums from the 80s, three from the 90s, three from the 2000s and three from the 2010s. I'm not going to go over all of those. So admittedly, I was a little bummed that you never picked the Joshua tree by you two, because at some point I'm going to force y'all to actually listen to that record all the way through, since I know at least one of you haven't, because it's a perfect album. You did already talk about ourselves by seven seconds. So it's kind of fitting that the other record that you picked to talk about is minor threats, 1983, only full-length album out of step. So since you guys normally talk about the year, well, I figured I would mention some of the records that, you know, I've just been a standard episode and you'd said, hey, here's 1983, pick a record. Well, one of the records I would have picked is when you've already done, which is a war by you two. (Music) (Music) (Music) Another one that I would think about, and these are all coming from my Google Doc, which is entitled Favorite Records by Year, because yes, I have a Google Doc with that I have basically all my favorite records are top five or top ten or top four in this case. For every year I've been alive, so I always tend to go to this first when I think about things to pick or things to make y'all listen to. So the second option, and I'm pretty sure you guys haven't done this, but Justin, tell me if I'm wrong. It's a murmur by R.E.M. (Music) (Music) The other option I would have picked, which happens to be my favorite record from 1983, because honestly it's flawless. Now, lyrically some aspects probably haven't aged super well. It's one of those, it's kind of like Milo goes to college, it's very of its place and of its time, and sometimes some few things on there make you go ooh, and that's violent femmes by the level of films. (Music) When I'm walking I strut my stuff and I'm so strung out. When I'm high it's a kind, I just might stop to check you out. Let me go on. (Music) So there is a good chance someday I will make y'all see that record. Actually I need to cover them on one band five songs, though let's be honest, how many people have really dug super deep beyond that self-titled record. You know I know a few songs, but come on, the violent femmes is that one record, right? I'm not wrong, am I? Anyway, so I gave the one y'all picked is again, I think I already mentioned it, but out of step by minor threat there only full-length album. So I discovered minor threat when I was a junior in high school, maybe I was a sophomore, probably a junior, and I was a kid in school that, and still to this day I don't drink, I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I remember someone at lunch made a joke saying I was straight-edge, and I had no idea what that meant. And the first two bands that were introduced to me that were straight-edge bands were seven seconds in minor threat. There were also really the first two hardcore punk bands that were that I was introduced to, and because of that they are also the benchmark and what I compare all other hardcore punk to. So whenever I hear the phrase hardcore, I think of those bands, and to some extent you know then something like gorilla biscuits, bad brain, stuff like that. But these are the two benchmarks for me, and hardcore has gone in some just wildly different directions, and the vast majority of it I cannot stand, it just is not for me. But minor threat I freaking love. So I got a copy of the self-titled cassette, which was the first two seven inches, and then years later I got, I got both out of step on vinyl, and then I got the complete discography CD. Interesting, on the out of step vinyl it's the title track, at the end of the title track, like on digitally and on the on the CD, it just you know has its hard end. If memory serves, there was on the vinyl a like a strings outro that was with that song, and I can't remember if it was the last song on the side or not, but it's it was never on any of the other versions of the record that I heard, and I kind of missed that. So I got that first cassette, and I loved it. And for years, years, that was how I thought of minor threat. And I remember then after moving to Oklahoma, and I was senior in high school, and talking to friends, and someone mentioned that like minor threat came up, and someone mentioned how on out of step, they had gotten a second guitar player, and they didn't like it as much. Well, you know, Brian Baker on out of step moves over to guitar, and so they have two guitar players, and they bring in this other dude on bass. And it really does fill out the sound, and you can already see the evolution of this band and these guys music, because there is clear steps from those first two seven inches to out of step to then the salad days EP, the last thing they would put out to then Dagnasty and embrace. And honestly, I remember the first time I ever heard Dagnasty, I picked up the 85 86 cassette compilation. And it was the songs with Sean Brown on vocals, which are now available on the Dag with Sean CD album thing. And I remember hearing that and thinking, Oh, wow, Brian Baker is a huge part of minor threat sound. So he was integral into the way that band sounded. And honestly, my favorite thing minor threat ever did is the salad days EP, as it's funny that and I think Justin, you made a joke about this one time that I like, in a lot of cases, I like sequels more than originals with with certain musical lineages. For example, I am a much bigger fan of the band all than I am the band descendants. And subsequently, I'm a much bigger fan of Dagnasty than I am of minor threat. But the best honestly, the best minor threat record is that salad days EP, it is, it's phenomenal. It was a hell of a way for them to go out. Out of step is still a great record. This band has a damn near flawless discography. It is so, so good. And they're legendary for a reason, you know, I will say I remember I'd have we had a friend in in high school and in early college years, named Jason. And Jason is I'm pretty sure still to this day, a gigantic fan of Henry Rollins. And he always thought that the song look back and laugh was about Ian and Henry's relationship. I've never dug into the history of that song or what it might be about or look to see if if Ian has ever said anything about it. But yeah, we just always thought that was funny. I love on so my favorite song on out of step is the song I played a clip of at the beginning of my little yakety yak here. And that's Think Again. And you know who did a great cover of Think Again? And I know y'all, y'all like to make fun of this band because some of the members of this band ended up going on some weird ass, down some weird rabbit holes and became a bit radicalized, which is really sad. But uh, the mighty, mighty boss stones. And you smile, but before me y'all, you think you know, what the fuck is going on? You're on top, you're on the ball. You think you'll see that ball? I love what they do with the horns in that song. And just a little extra drum bits. See, I'm super technical with my terminology here, but the extra drum stuff that they throw in, I absolutely love it. Really do. So, you know, I hadn't listened to my earth threat in a really long time. So when I realized last night, I'm starting to get ready for bed and I was like, oh shit, I told Justin I would record this because I know they're recording tomorrow as of the morning. I'm recording this. Anyway, and I realized, oh, I haven't listened to my earth threat in a long time. So I got on my Spotify app and I pulled up my minor threat, discography playlist and I went straight to out of step and I listened to the album and it still holds up, man. It's also amazing how great these record sound and I'm even going back to before they were remastered and everything. These things sound so good. Don Z and company did such a phenomenal job in inter-air studios. And yeah, it's amazing when you listen to this and then you go back and you hear some other things that were recorded and put out in the same era. And you know, I think for all the crap that spot gets is the in-house producer of SST. I think those are still some of the best sounding records of the era, but not anywhere near as good sounding as these discord records were. Everything that Don Z touched sounded great. So I'm looking forward to hearing what you guys think of out of step by minor threat and your just stories with minor threat. This is a a band that was very important to me growing up and a band that I in a lot of ways was an influence on me philosophically. And that's an interesting topic, I think, one I might explore at some point, but the idea of the music that helps shape you philosophically, politically your worldview, that would be something fun to dig into. I'm gonna have to put a pin on that. Okay, it's 6/11 in the morning. I've talked for long enough. And you know, I still have to eat breakfast and get ready for work. So thanks guys for taking my money. It's always money well spent. And look forward to hearing what you have to say. Hope you guys have a good day. Take care my friends. [Music] So thank you Dave for that great piece of audio. I always love when Dave sponsors an episode because I know we're going to get like a fully produced mini pod that we could air as part of our show. So thank you for paying us to make you do work. But yeah, a big fan of one band five songs. So I always like Dave's thoughts on music. So yeah, a lot of good stuff there. He brings up, he hit on a lot of the same albums that we mentioned there at the top. For the record, I do like the Mighty Mighty Boss tones. You know, the QAnon stuff doesn't really appear until like, actually, I don't think any of the QAnon stuff appears in the music. So yeah, no, I mean, they broke up before that happened. So yeah, it is an interesting point though. The Mighty Mighty Boss tones is a band that like, I've only ever dabbled in and it's far less appealing to go back and listen to their records now. It's kind of a, you know, ruining your legacy situation. Yeah, okay. So we had options to choose from Dave's list. I don't think we discussed it at great length. No. And I guess we'll save our thoughts on the other records that we considered in case Dave wants us to do those in the future. But I guess the question is why did we pick this one from the list? There were, there was another one on that list that I was kind of leaning towards as well. There's an in excess record on that list. And I'm, and we have said before, maybe we should do that in excess record. So that yeah, that's something that that's one we're probably, that'll probably be the next one. Yeah, X by in excess from 1990. Yeah, it's one that I would like to get to at some point. I would love to get an in excess record on the show at some point. A lot of the other ones, the more recent ones on the list that he sent, I kind of was just, I don't know, they're in a, they're in a similar vein musically that I just wasn't right, like really in the mood for. And looking at that list, I was like, my new thread is on this list. And one, they're a massive band that we've yet to cover on the show, like actually devote an episode to one of their releases. You know, we did like the Teen Idols EP with like, and a long time ago. And we've done Fugazi on the show. And then you and I have talked about stuff like the evens on some Patreon content. But my new thread is like one of the big ones, like, I mean, besides Fugazi, my new thread's probably the most important band that Ian was involved with. And I was like, we should do a minor threat record. And also like, this is the most substantial minor threat release. It's the longest record they put out of original content, you know, yeah, it's a compilation, but yeah. So like, I think out of the step is the one to do. That's kind of where I, where I was going with that one. Yeah, we didn't really talk about it much though. I was looking at our chat history, I don't, I don't see where we actually decided. Do we not actually say that? I feel like we both just like, oh, we said, though, minor threat might be one worth covering. And then we just did it. We talked about it when we, after we did the last day club, I was like, how do we decide? We didn't say it. We didn't type it out. We said it with our words. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's, I mean, going back to my, we should do the obvious choice. That was also part of it. When you said that on the, what was it, the last week's episode, the last misfits episode that we did. And yeah, the idea of just like, we should probably go with the more obvious choice more frequently. But so that was also another thing that was in my head when we were looking at that list. And I was like, you know, we should do it. We should do minor threats, important band, important record, the longest record they put out. And yeah, it's on the list. And I like it. And there are bands that I never really talk about as much as, I feel like they were very important to me at one point in my life. Like one of the most important bands ever at a certain stage of my life. And that has fallen away quite a bit personally. You know, as I've discovered more music over time and stopped being straight edge, you know, kind of distanced myself a little bit and gotten more interested in the many other bands they did following minor threat. So it felt like it's probably due for a look at this band. So you, so you were, you know, exactly the kind of person that Ian doesn't like that you only associate minor threat with straight edge. Smell what it was about. Yeah, that is a factor too, I guess. It's funny. I used to own a minor threat. I might still have it doesn't fit anymore. It was a, and as a white shirt, it was the out of step sheet, the black sheet. And it said like minor threat in green font in green letters. And I had that shirt and I wore it around our buddy, Grand, who runs Bitterbellity Records, after I'd broken edge. And he said, huh, you're not a step with anything anymore. And I was like, I can't damn it. Luckily, it's a white shirt that got horribly stained. But yeah, as they mostly do, just from wash, like it's like washing it actually makes it dirtier. Yeah, let's get into our back history. You start us, we start in the same place roughly, but you start us off here. So minor threat would have been a very early entry into true punk for us. I feel like we, I feel like we didn't year them prior to you just downloading songs by them. Am I right? Like there wasn't, they weren't on any kind of comp that we heard, they weren't on. Is there a minor threat song in a Tony Hawk game? I don't think so. I really don't. I doubt it. So it was a band that you very quickly found out about if you got into punk. And so like our getting into like classic punk and hardcore and stuff, our convoluted weird history from like Christian Rock to smart guy metal, you know, do metal and metal core and kind of also alongside that, we have like listening to the misfits collections, you know, and probably like getting into the Ramones that feels really early too. Yeah. Definitely. Definitely before minor threat. Like I think you got like a Ramones live CD. Yeah. Yeah. At one point, like the first Ramones record you bought was a live CD or I got it for Christmas. You got it for Christmas. Yeah. And I remember getting it going a live record. Yeah. My guess is it was probably one of the cheaper ones and it had the Spiderman theme on it and my parents picked it up. So knowing them, they're like, here, this one. Yeah. Which by the way, really fun live record. Yeah, it's good. It's a good live record. It is. So minor threat would have been a band that you just heard about. Like you're digging into punk. They're one of the first bands that you're going to come up with if you're looking for classic punk bands. And so we would have most likely have heard like some sex pistols and, you know, and it was really just you had a peer to peer downloading app or whatever program on your laptop in college and you're just like getting like five songs from every old punk band that you've ever heard of. And for me, I got those in the form of CDRs that you would burn where it would be like some minor threat songs. And I the one that had the minor threat songs on it, I feel like probably had some fugazi songs on it. I don't remember what else was on there. I wish I could remember. I'm sure it's at our parents house somewhere. I probably just labeled it classic punk or something, you know, the Sharpie and and that would have been my introduction to minor threat was listening to those CDs that you burned with me with just like whatever you had downloaded. And I don't remember which songs were on there because I feel like it progressed really quickly from having just those songs burned to having like everything by minor threat. I want to say you bought, is there a, did you buy the complete discography compilation? No, I didn't buy it. I would have downloaded it and burned it. Yeah, because that was kind of my approach initially getting into like punk and hardcore. Like, I heard all these bands, I knew all their names, but like, I'd never heard much of their music on its own. And yeah, I would go to college. It had first, my first high speed internet was in college. And I was just downloading everything I could think of. Like, I heard this name before, I'm going to download some Husker do, heard of this name before, I'm going to download some bad brains, you know, I'm going to download as much as I can. Minor threat would have been one. I probably had learned the name minor threat when I discovered straight edge, because I learned what that was thanks to the demon hunter messenger boards, because someone was in there was like, I'm straight edge. And then I think I like asked what, what is straight edge? And it was like, I don't drink, I don't smoke, don't do drugs. And then I was like, that's what I don't do. And so I very quickly adopted the phrase straight edge for myself, without hearing any straight edge bands ever at the stage in my life, then getting into that kind of stuff later. And minor threat is like, the way you learn about straight edge, you learn about minor threat, you learn about guerrilla biscuits. And then who knows what you learned about afterward, the hardcore bands with X's in their names, probably. That's usually the third step people find. But yeah, so that would have been like, oh, okay, this minor threat ban. I should check them out. So I get, you know, I get this software download, I just download like a handful of songs from everybody I think of. Burn 'em on CDs. And then like, whatever I like on those CDs, I wind up like digging into more in the future. And the great thing about minor threat is you can get all of their entire discography on a single CD with the complete discography. Yeah, 47 minutes. That's the whole discography is 47 minutes? Yeah, something like that. Wow. I mean, there's there's a handful of things that have been released since then that probably aren't on there. But yeah, there's some demos and stuff. I do think you bought a copy of the first demo tape. I do. I do have that for CD. It was one of those ones where I got it for Christmas, but it's because like, I chose it. You know, we were at media play and she's like, pick out CDs. And so I picked that one as one of them. So yeah, I would have got that one. Probably like, Christmas. Oh, oh five, probably Christmas. Oh five or oh six, one of the two. Yeah, got the demo. And then just kind of like listen to that entire compilation. Those burn songs, I could just listen to them a lot. And they really they just became really important to me. You know, I was straight edge. And so like that that helped it. That helped make it a little bit more important because there's a little bit of righteousness that goes along with being straight edge that a lot of people have, especially young young people. And Ian at the time, definitely had that. Yeah, so yeah, it's pretty much at college getting into punk and hardcore, like old bands and getting into that discography. They eventually wind up kind of like drifting away. One, like, one is because I don't listen to like tons of early 80s hardcore that much just because it's it's also simple. And it's also like once you've heard them a bunch of times, it's like, yeah, I know how C and Red goes, you know, it's it's pretty simple, you know, and really through no act of your own, you get overexposed to a lot of the stuff. Yeah. How many minor threat songs have you heard over the PA? Yeah, at a punk show. Yeah, just like sound guy throws on minor threat in between bands. It's like, Oh, well, all right. I know these songs. You know, I just unlocked a memory though. I think the first minor threat song I ever heard was screaming at a wall performed by the deal on the face down fest DVD that I had watched all the time because they cover screaming at a wall. They may have covered seeing red too. I think it might have been two minor threat covers that they did. So this Christian Oi punk band, hardcore punk band, was my actual version introduction to minor threat. And I also remember thinking I don't like this criminal wall song that much. And it's still not one of my favorite minor threat songs. So yeah, thanks the deal. Yeah. And then yeah, fading away is probably less to do with not being straight edge, but also more to do with I've heard I heard them so many times burn myself out. You know, yeah, and it's very simple music. Like I didn't listen to a ton of the other their contemporaries either after those first couple years are really getting into them. So yeah. ♪ I take it both, I smoke good ♪ ♪ Where the world ♪ ♪ I take it both, I take it both ♪ ♪ I smoke good ♪ ♪ Where the world ♪ ♪ I smoke ♪ ♪ I don't drink ♪ ♪ I don't ♪ ♪ I smoke ♪ ♪ And they're darker ♪ ♪ I smoke good ♪ ♪ I take it both, I take it both ♪ ♪ I smoke good ♪ ♪ Where the world ♪ ♪ I take it both, I take it both ♪ ♪ I smoke good ♪ ♪ Where the world ♪ - Let's do a little bit of a history here. So being in Jeff had played a band's prior to minor threat, most notably the band, Teen Idols. They then recruit Brian Baker and Lyle Presler and become a four-piece. They released their self-titled EP and the "In My Eyes 7" in 1981. And they break up in '81. Lyle was going to college in Illinois, and weirdly at that time, he somehow managed to get into a few rehearsals of the band "Big Black." So there was a brief period where Lyle Presler was in "Big Black" just in early, early stages. In that time, Ian and Jeff started Scubald/Grand Union, which was just a little project they started that never got out of the practice stage. They wrote some songs, they recorded a couple songs that eventually would get released in '91, but never played any shows under that name and couldn't decide on a name. They originally called Grand Union, and then Ian saw the word Scubald somewhere, and he's like, we should call the band that. And Jeff was like, no, I don't wanna use that name. And so they disagreed, becomes a common theme in this band. During this time, Brian Baker is also playing in government issue, and HR from BadBrains is the one who convinces Ian to reform minor threat. So they reform in 1982, and they add Steve Henson, hand skin unto the band. And he's playing bass in the band, and this frees Brian up to play second guitar. And I actually found a really cool interview that Steve did with maybe vice or AV Club, one of those two. And this piece of it's really interesting. It talks about how Steve wound up getting in the band. So he says, "Brian Baker and I had been friends since we were children. My dad was the anchor man on eyewitness news in DC, and Brian's dad was the producer. He ended up moving to Gross Point, Michigan for a couple years, and we lost track of one another. Then I ended up bumping into him at a punk show in DC years later when minor threat first started. A lot of people were intimidated by Brian and his superior attitude. But I had known him since he was nine, so I didn't give a shit. I would go up to him and talk to him, and all my friends would be like, "Oh my God, he's talking to him." So one afternoon in August, in 1982, I happened to be in Georgetown, and I went to talk, go talk to John Stab, the vocalist of government issue. He worked at this record store around there. When I was walking up, Brian was standing outside the store talking to Mike Hampton from The Faith, these people. They're just like all around each other at all times. They were talking about guitars, and I interjected myself into the conversation, and Brian said, "Do you play?" And I said, "Yeah." And then he said, "Do you play bass?" And I said, "Yeah, that's actually my main instrument." He said, "Oh, really?" And ran into the store. Now what I didn't know was John was on tour, and Ian Mackay was working for him that week. So all of a sudden Ian and Brian come out, and they're talking to each other at the top of the stairs. When they're done, Brian comes up to me and says, "Hey, do you wanna come over to my house and hang out and jam?" We went over there, and the first thing I said, "Look, I know every single minor threat song, and I played a bunch of them. The next day I went over to Discord House and played with the whole band, and that was that." But they would never come out and say, "You're in the band." So I asked, "Can you tell me what's going on and most importantly why?" I was told that Brian, Jeff, and Ian's first idea was to kick Lyle out of minor threat and to form a whole new band and have Brian on guitar and me on bass. But now they were deciding to make it a five piece, because Lyle probably couldn't handle it if they kicked him out of the band. So I was in the band from that day in August 1982, until about a year later. So then they go in the studio, they record in my eyes, or excuse me, out of step, and it's technically credited as an EP. It's pressed on a 12 inch, and it's nine songs and it's 20 minutes long. I would consider an album, but whatever. I think also cashing out was considered like a hidden track, I believe, in some versions of the record, 'cause it's not like not listed on the sleeve. So I think maybe that's why they were calling it an EP, 'cause it's like just back there, but whatever. Anyway, yeah, that's basically it. They wind up staying in a band for another year. They wind up, they tour a little bit, they do a Midwest tour, the East Coast tour. I think they go to LA at some point, I'm not sure. But then they just wind up breaking up in '84, and just calling it quits, 'cause they all had just really big disagreements. And that interview's really good, because Steve talks about they were so mean to each other. They fought all the time, sometimes literally fist fighting each other. Apparently Lyle was a huge asshole to everyone, like all the time. Like he said, there was like a story, they were at a show and like somebody he knew like came up and like started walking with them, they're walking somewhere. And then he was just like, please don't talk Lyle, please don't talk, you're just gonna be a dick to him for no reason. Like they just, nobody like Lyle, Lyle was mean to every single person they interacted. Lyle's a lawyer now. Putting his powers to good use, I hope. But they just all seem to be like arguing all the time. He said that like Ian was like the captain of everything, every decision had to be his, and he thinks part of why, he was kicked out of minor threat. And at the end of that year, and he thinks it's because it wasn't Ian's decision to add him to the band in the first place. It was Brian's idea, and it was like the first time someone else had an idea before Ian did. And I talked this all up to being, they're all like, they're young, they're all really young. They may be have graduated at this point, but they're still like 1920. So they're real dumb young kids. So I think that's, yeah, yeah, I mean, it doesn't even sound like, they just sounds like they were arguing about what, band politics are just like that. Yeah, waiting for there's not like a clear, one person put the whole thing together. You know, it kind of comes together the way a band like this does. It gets weird and pretty early. And like, I don't know, I guess that was also just, I think there's like people like hear the stories of bands having creative disagreements with each other all the time. And I feel like people like act on that. They're just like, oh, well, we have to do that to be a real band, we have to not cooperate. I don't know. I'm sure they were, you know, they were basically small town, small time celebrities to, which really doesn't help. You just add a bunch of ego to a bunch of teenage boys. And they are like basically unsupervised. Yeah. Yeah, they already have the discord house of this time. Yeah, and they're like living together and they all have like other people that they live with and they're also in other bands too. Yeah. He tells a story about like how Ian and Henry were, like when, after Henry had joined Black Flag and like Ian like got mad at Henry because Henry had started doing LSD, like when he first joined Black Flag. And then like, he said they like, when the first time they were in person with each other, like Henry and Greg just like talked over anything that in like Ian or anybody else was saying at the time, it's just a very weird, like dynamic. I think they were all just undiagnosed ADHD. Kids, latchkey kids. Yeah. Yeah, that's definitely a big part of it. Them just, you know, self-reliant. And yeah, so, I mean, it's kind of the miracle that Myers Red did anything, honestly though, from the sounds of it as much as they fought with each other and like, we're gonna kick the guy out of the band, it's like, why? But then they don't. Like their reasons, their reason for it didn't change 'cause they did eventually break up. Yeah, it was like only like just a couple months later. Yeah, instead of just kicking him out when they first had the idea, they've been kept him for two years. Yeah, and then Steve was, he said later, after he got kicked out, he was like, I wasn't even mad. I was glad to be tired of being yelled at all the time. He's like, he was like, from the second we woke up, somebody was always yelling and fighting with each other. Like in the van, it was horrible driving with them all the time. It's just terrible. It's so, he's like, and then it was no big deal 'cause when, you know, I was in the front row for the last shows, you know. So yeah, it's just how they were, I guess, but hilarious how contentious they were. And then Lyle Pressler goes and plays with Glenn Danzig. And he has a hard time with that band too, 'cause yeah, Danzig, yeah. But there was even a story in that same article where he got into a fight with, who was the other drummer? London May, he got into a fight with him too. And like, yeah, I think Lyle was kind of a cranky kid. - How many, how many meet men records did he do? - I don't know, I don't know how he did. - Two, three? No, he did, he actually stayed with the meet men for a while. Looks like, yeah. Yeah, Steve, Steve Hanskin really never heard of before. Hasn't done a lot, but he also played bass and government issue, and produced, or co-produced, the first tool demo and EP. - Yeah, opiate, opiate in '92, which is weird. - And he has like, he got co-produced like a song or two on schism, and yeah, and it's a weird connection there. (upbeat music) ♪ Ho, ho, ho ♪ ♪ How do you do ♪ ♪ How do you do it best ♪ ♪ My name is Ian, I'm a mother threat ♪ ♪ You're a kind of music ♪ ♪ To be a good bass ♪ ♪ Take me count after every chance ♪ ♪ Yeah, yeah ♪ ♪ We don't care ♪ ♪ We don't pose ♪ ♪ We're still in our body ♪ ♪ We're still in our show ♪ ♪ Ho, ho, ho ♪ (upbeat music) ♪ I've got some money and I'm feeling fine ♪ ♪ A couple of hours and we think of time ♪ ♪ But you know, I'm gonna be alright ♪ ♪ With our money and I make it off ♪ ♪ But you turn right ♪ ♪ Sockin' ♪ ♪ We don't care ♪ ♪ We don't pose ♪ ♪ We're still in our body ♪ ♪ We're still in our show ♪ - So what? - Revisiting this record, where does it hit ya? - Fucking rocks. - Yeah. (laughing) Like a first song comes on "Betray" and I'm like, I forgot how good the out of step stuff was. Because really when you think of minor thread, I think of like the earlier material first and foremost. Like that's the stuff that pops into my head the most. And then like out of step the song, I guess would be the song of this record that I tend to think of maybe the most. I also think of cashing in as well because it was, it's just like, it's the last song, you know? 'Cause I don't know what the order, what does the "Salad days" EP consist of? Is that like a earlier session? 'Cause that comes on like 85. "Salad days" was recorded in December of '83. - Okay, so what about that? - Out of step was recorded in January of '83. So, okay yeah, but "Salad days" does not have Steve on it. It's just Lyle on guitar and Brian on bass again. So yeah, it's only three songs too. "Salad days" stumped in "Good Guys" which is a cover. So yeah, out of step is like the most like prominent release from them, it's 20 minutes long. It's, you know, they got two guitars on this record. You can tell, you could tell it sounds different from a songwriting performance perspective as well. This whole record's good, like Betray kicks it off. It follows is great. It has the whistling outro too. Think again, really fun song, "Look Back and Laugh" which is a little slower, a little groovier. Like "Sob Story" and "No Reason" a little friend. They all kind of run together to me, those three. They're all just pretty standard fast hardcore songs. They don't really do too much, really weird or different. But then out of step has like the big, straight-a-janthem to it. And then "Caching In" which is just a really funny song. It's good. He does like weird like talk singing in that song. Hi, my name's Ian, like that, all that stuff. And he's doing like weird voices on the song. Oh, laughing in it, like it's such a weird funny song, but I do love it. I think it's really a standout on the record. Yeah, I think, you know, "Salad Story" no reason a little friend. So I feel like they don't stand out as well. But if you just check the first, like they all start so distinctly different from each other. Like "Sob Story" goes, "Dah, dah, dah!" And "No Reason" has like the bass led intro. And "Little Friend" has this like, almost like "Surfi" lead rhythm guitar part, that the variety of songs, like I think, I think of minor threat a lot. And I think of them as being kind of your standard classic hardcore, kind of simple, not that interesting, you know, musically. And a lot of times it's just driven by like the vocals and the lyrics. But this EP benefits so much from having two guitarists. And it is going in the direction that they're going as musicians. Like the direction is going in the direction that Brian is going. Like it really starts here more than it starts with their next bands. And it's really good. Like I was thinking while I was listening to it, it's like, why have I not come back to this more often? Because this is top tier melodic hardcore. Really catchy songs, really memorable parts. And fun and kind of goofy. Which reminds me a lot of like "Minute Men" and you know. Yeah, yeah. I didn't even Dead Kennedys, you know, to some extent less so at this point in the Dead Kennedys career, but I think it's really impressive how tough it feels while also being really poppy. Like it's really unpolished. It's pretty like snarling and sarcastic and in your face and like feels young. But it also has like a level of song craft that is a huge step up for them. And it's, you know, not say that they didn't have, you know, fairly strong songwriting chops to begin with because they had super memorable songs prior to this. But the amount of like, you can sing the guitar lines of this record. And you have this really like forward melodic bass playing on the record. So you have this like really harmonically tight sounding band between the vocals and guitars in the bass. And like they're all doing this like really catchy stuff. And it's not just, you know, thrashing around and being ugly and hardcore. Like for the sake of it, they're all really trying to, you know, as much as they fought with each other, they're all pulling in the same direction musically. Yeah, this is a great EP. I don't know. It feels obvious and dumb to say minor threat was a great band. But you just, you hear it so young and it's such a formative band. Two, I was thinking it was like minor threat is one of the most text book, you know, chapter it, you know, big book of punk chapter one, the Ramones and the Sex Pistols. Chapter two, minor threat in Black Flag. It's like, you know, you can't not hear it. You know, it's so it gets buried in your head when you're like 14, 15. But you don't really have a lot of motivation to come back to it. But it's rewarding to come back to. Yeah, it's one of those things where like I go back and I hear these songs again. And I'm like, God, they were, they were so good at this. Like in your brain, you're like, it's hardcore is that simple, you know, riff kind of very fast based, hardcore, you know, low, low technique style of hardcore that all, there's so many contemporaries really, they're contemporaries, but really they're copycats because the true contemporaries of them, they have some chops, you know, like Black Flag has chops. Even from the beginning, they have chops, you know, bad brains were incredible musicians from the beginning. So like you have to look at, alright, who else was putting out music around this time period and minor threat might have the least amount of technique skill out of the early first big waves of American hardcore, but they're so much better than so many of the other bands who just hopped on the trend and started doing like, you know, similar sounding stuff. They're all trying to, they're all trying to copy like early Black Flag and early minor threat because early bad brains is too hard to actually try and copy, but minor threat did it so much better than almost all those bands. I think early minor threat is better than early Black Flag too, you know, like I'm not a big fan of the early Keith Morris run of, you know, Black Flag that stuff, but there's still some really solid tunes in there, but I think even like some of the best of those early early Black Flag songs aren't as good as these early minor threat songs. And with this record, they just got better, you know, like having two guitars makes the songs more interesting, which a lot of the contemporaries at this time weren't doing yet. You know, they weren't that interesting yet, like really like look at like the earliest that first Husker D record, I don't, it's fine. It's not what they would become. Yeah, I mean within the same year, the difference in quality between the metal circus EP and everything falls apart. Right. And it was like metal circus is the one that should have been the album. Yeah. I mean, besides like Minuteman doing stuff in '83 to, you know, they were very interesting band, but yeah, I just think that they were minor threat were just so much better and the more obvious influence on everyone else. And with this record, I do wonder at the time what people really thought. I'm sure the people of DC were like all in on it just because, you know, they had a cult following basically and so many bands spun out of their, their social circles and the people who came to see them play live. And it, it's usually like whatever Ian's band is, whatever music is happening from Ian or Brian Baker tends to be the, oh, everybody else in DC is like, oh, we're doing that now. Okay. Ian, okay. Ian says we're doing this now. And everybody just does whatever, it's like embracing diagnostic, oh, we're all doing that kind of stuff now. Okay. We're all doing this now. Everybody happens and it's like, oh, we're all doing like this kind of stuff now. Okay. We're all doing this. You know, it's very clearly like they shaped the whole DC scene for a good, I don't know, 15 years, maybe, but yeah, this record is great. I think it's the best record they put out. I don't know that that's the consensus opinion. I've seen quite a few negative reviews and in comments people saying it's the worst of the three EPs and I don't know who says that or why they would say that. That's wild to me, but I've seen a lot of people say and I guess it's the kind of person that's just like only the first year of hardcore records are good at that kind of mentality of just like, I want it to be super shitty. I want short, fast songs with nothing music beneath complex or interesting or memorable to any degree. Yeah. Yeah. There's people who yell at us because we don't like MDC, you know, those people. Oh, these guys, you would like punk rock. We do. We just like lots of different kinds. We're not pigeonholed to one tiny, tiny period of music. You know, sorry, I'm not a chromax fan. Yeah. Sorry. I don't like madball. Yeah. Well, I hate to cut a super short, but I'm kind of hitting my heart out. I don't have to say else. It's short. It's short. It's short. So it's, you know, you're only going to get so much out of it. But yeah, I don't know. I think it's a excellent, excellent record. It's probably, I should come back to it more often. Was my takeaway from this? Like, oh, yeah. I loved it. And I was like, man, why don't I listen to this more? And you just, it's just because I have a version of the band in my head more so than like my memory of this record specifically. Let's rate it and get out of here. What do you give it to? Four and a half stars. You know, I'm right there with you. I'm gonna say four and a half too. Yeah. Four and a half right at it. Maybe if those three sort of Sami-ish songs weren't right there in a row, it might get bumped up five, but yeah, four and a half for sure. Yeah. Excellent, excellent record. I love it. And I'm glad it was on the list for us to pull from because it's been on there for a while. We've looked at that list a few times and this was the first time I was like, I want to do that one. So right mood right place, but yeah, Dylan's got a heart out here. So thank you. Thank you all so much for listening. Thank you to Dave for sponsoring this episode. Thank you to our producers. Yeah. Thank you all so much. You can follow us in all forms of social media @punkalotopod. Voicemail line 202 688-PUNK and punkalotopod@gmail.com. So thank you all and we'll talk to you next time. To order punk, call the number on your screen. Rush delivery is available. Remember, this special offer is not sold in stores.
This week's episode is sponsored by our Patron, Dave Brown (One Band 5 Songs). We are talking about Minor Threat's 1983 record, Out of Step.
