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11 07 24 CU Law Prof Violeta Chapin on Donald Trump's migrant deportation plan
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Upon taking office, we will have an Operation Aurora at the federal level. We will send elite squads of ICE, Border Patrol, and federal law enforcement officers to hunt down, arrest, and deport every last illegal alien gang member until there is not a single one left in this country. Joining us now in the KOA Comis Spirit Health Hotline, CU Immigration Policy Law Professor, it's Vee Let It Shape and Professor Shape, and always appreciate you having us having you on with us this morning. I want to start this morning with the president-elect, he has often spoke of mass deportation. Is that even a reality and what kind of numbers are we taking and talking about if that were to happen? Certainly, good morning. It's nice to be here again. Certainly, that is something that the president-elect has said many times on the trail, and he has people in place, notably Stephen Miller, who has said that he will make good on that promise. Logistically, it's staggering to think about what that would cost, primarily. We have approximately 11 million undocumented people that have been living in the United States, some of them for decades. The cost of apprehending, detaining, processing legally, all of those people, I mean, I've looked around at some of the numbers, and the cost of doing one large en masse operation like that would be between $300 and $400 billion, and that would be a lot of money, obviously, and difficult for our economy to sustain, to save the least, and then the cost of extracting 11 million people from the workplace. Many of these folks work. They work. They pay taxes, and they work in jobs that are what we call 3-B jobs, the dirty, demanding and difficult jobs, and the cost to the economy would be there as well. But presumably, the 72 million people voted for Mr. Trump, and they are going to be expecting him to do the things that he stated on the trail, and if he doesn't, I guess there will be some consequences for that, but if he does, there will also be sort of severe consequences to the economy, and it is a real question whether or not we could ever do that. In the modern immigration enforcement regime, the United States has never deported more than half a million people per year. Professor Chapin, like you mentioned, he has given a lot of policies of what he would do. Even the first day in office, we played some audio earlier that talks a little bit about Operation Aurora that he said he would start here with migrants in Aurora when it comes to deportations. Is that realistic, or do we have any idea of how this mass deportation could start if initiated? Well, one of the things that the president-elect has talked about is deputizing local law enforcement to go in, because we do not have enough immigration and customs enforcement agents to be able to sort of do such a large-scale operation, even in one state, like Colorado. They're going to hit several states, including Colorado, and some cities have sanctuary policies where local law enforcement is not permitted to cooperate with immigration enforcement. So that would be one of the challenges. But certainly, the president-elect has made these statements to the extent that they come to Colorado, there will always be logistical issues. Detention costs are extraordinary. Every person who gets detained is going to have the right to have a legal process. And the legal process, as we know, the immigration system is already backlogged years and years and sort of making the space and the time to adjudicate hundreds of thousands, if not millions of new cases, is going to be a nightmare, if not impossible, for the immigration courts. - Professor, I want to address some of the issues that you brought up about things that you see from your perch where immigration is broken. But before we do that, could we see a resurrection of the former president, the president-elect's policies have remained in Mexico? Could we actually see that border bill that had strung by partisan support that was killed by Donald Trump when he was a candidate, be resurrected and blessed by Trump now that he is the president-elect? - He certainly has, he has Congress as well. And so we may very well see some movement, finally, some changes to the law from Congress. And that would be a resurrection of the border bill. I think it would be, it's likely that it will be a lot harsher than immigration advocates would like. I would hope, one thing the president-elect has stated is that, for example, with respect to undocumented students or the dreamers, as we call them, DACA recipients, he has stated that he loves DACA recipients and that he thinks that every undocumented person who graduates from college should get a green card, which I actually wholeheartedly agree with. That would be smart to the extent that there is a harsh border bill. I would hope that there would be some kindness, some respite for undocumented people who grew up here their whole lives and are positively contributing to society. That would be a potential opportunity to pass, finally, the DREAM Act, which would affect those folks. But that's a very optimistic view, perhaps. But I do think that's an opportunity to solve one of the issues that has been intractable but has also received bipartisan support, at least in the past. We may be in a very different place right now. I think America is feeling, obviously, with the result of this election that we need to be tougher on immigration. And certainly we can see a resurrection of remain in Mexico if the president-elect is able to -- I mean, that would have to be negotiated with the new president of Mexico, Claudia Shinebaum. And so whether or not she would agree to that would be a question as well. But certainly, I think you will see a resurrection of policies that they've talked about, resurrecting Title 42, which is the public health law that allows the president to -- if it's not COVID, if it's with other illnesses, the state's point. I'm not there going to be able to do this. I'm certainly going to be able to -- We're losing you there a little bit, Professor, on your phone. Sorry about that. We're losing you. Can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you now. Yes. Okay. So I think there will be some activity in the courts the way that certain -- Okay. Professor, we're losing you a little bit. I wanted to ask if we can squeeze in one more question. What else should we be asking and looking for immigration policy and border-wise with the Second Trump administration? And what does actually -- what does actually good workable immigration law and policy look like from your perch? Certainly, you know, we're going to think about under this new administration what the outlook is for the millions of people that have lived here a long time. I think what we're going to see is a lot of aggressive and forth, and I think that we'll likely kill temporary protected status, which protects about 700,000 people currently from, I think, 19 different countries here in the United States, and they're going into that program. And that will certainly sort of add to the numbers of undocumented people living here if they're not able to round up and detain them all and deport them, which, as we said already, is already sort of a logistical and economic nightmare. I think what -- ideally, what we would be able to do in this country is normalize the status of the people that have been here for decades and paying taxes and have children here and have sort of arranged their lives. That is not what the Trump administration wants to do. But that, I think, would be the best thing for our economy, and it would acknowledge that our economy depends on immigrant labor for much of our jobs and our work and for our economy to turn. So to the extent that they follow the plan that they have stated, many, many times, I think we -- the American people will feel it sharply in our economy. See you, immigration, policy, and law professor. It's Violetta Chapin. Thank you so much for your time this morning. There's only one feeling like knowing your banker personally. Like growing up with a bank you can count on. Like being sure what you've earned is safe, secure, and local. There's only one feeling like knowing you're supporting your community. You deserve more from a bank. You deserve an institution that stood strong for generations. Bank of Colorado. There's only one member FDIC.