Showdown
Showdown Episode 32 4-2-24
(upbeat guitar music) - Welcome to Showdown. I'm Mark Kason. And today is Tuesday, April 2nd. So we made it past April Fools and Heather Fleming. How are you doing? How did you do on April Fools? Anything good? - You know what? I stayed close to the house and so I did just great. - Okay, well that's excellent. Yeah, we don't want you getting any trouble. We know you're doing some great work and we're gonna talk about that today. And I definitely love to talk about school because I've been a teacher for a long time, university, high school, all over. And I have to say that the situation in high schools today are often good and many times not so good. - Yeah, that's good. - Yeah, now first of all, let's talk about what you do. You've got an organization that you started and talk to me about it. It has to do with equity. - Yes. - Tell me. - In 2021, when the first anti-critical race theory Bill was introduced, I recognized at that time the critical race theory was just a buzzword that they were used into really in couch, diversity, equity and inclusion and to basically band it in our state. And so I started a little Facebook group that eventually turned it to the Missouri Equity Education Partnership. And what we do is that we advocate for equity at every level, like everywhere that equity is under threat, we go in and we advocate and we teach others to try to advocate for equity as well. - Yeah, did you almost fall over a couple of days ago when you read that Attorney General Bailey was claiming that the fight that everybody's been talking about in Hazelwood East, that that fight was a direct result of diversity, equity and inclusion. - No, I wasn't that surprised because the reality is that they use diversity, equity and inclusion as a scapegoat for anything that they fear. They also use it as an opportunity to grasp for power. And so I'm not surprised that he's using that incident, such a tragic incident in order to basically try to increase his profile, bring more supporters, Riley's base up. At this point, it's a code word for black people, brown people. And so when they're saying that, oh, the fight was because of DEI, know what they really wanna say is the fight was because we're allowing black people to, and brown people to be part of society. And it's a message that, unfortunately, what some individuals is really hitting, but that is the work that we try to do. We try to make sure that people understand that no, we're all in this together. And a lot of the people that work with our organization are people, white people, and people that are not maybe part of some of the impacted groups that the Attorney General is attacking. And so we try to let people know that no, we're what America should look like. A group of individuals that regardless of their race, their color, their ethnicity, their sexual orientation, their gender, their religion, that all of us should have the opportunity to thrive in our society. So I wasn't surprised. It's something that they've been doing for a very long time. - Yeah, and I'm really glad you said it the way you did because the fact is that white people in this country, a certain large number of them are and have been looking for a long time for ways to push back against the civil rights movement. And the fact also is that diversity, that is lots of different people being involved, equity, fairness among these people, and inclusion that everybody gets to be involved, the thought that that could have anything to do with harming society is just bizarre beyond belief. - Well, for these individuals, it does harm society for them. For some people, equality, equity feels like oppression. And it feels like oppression to them because they've gotten used to that feeling of privilege. They don't wanna acknowledge it as privilege. And I know that that becomes a really bad word, but they've gotten used to things being, you know, centered around their particular cultural or ethnic identities, them being the due north. I had an interaction online yesterday because a school board candidate in one of the districts out here in St. Charles posted, you know, Happy Easter, this wonderful message around Easter, but he put for those who celebrate. And this gentleman was so very upset because he had the audacity to say for those who celebrate, like, they don't need that. And he's not understanding that that is not in any way negatively impacting Christianity. What that particular thing was doing was just acknowledging that not everyone is Christian. And so, but when you are used to everything being centered around Christianity and you as a Christian, sometimes that can feel very, very offensive. And so I told him, I was like, the reality is that it wasn't offensive, you were offended. And there's a huge difference. And right now we have a lot of people in society where, you know, a man or trans woman having on nail polish, nail polish is not offensive. You're just offended because you've chosen to not be inclusive, to not come from an inclusive perspective. That individual is doing absolutely nothing to harm you and absolutely nothing that impacts you and your identity. But because you're, that's not something that you, you know, consider part of your identity now, you're offended by that person's very existence. And I think that's what we've been dealing with. How do you argue with people that, as you're trying to argue from a perspective of humanity, can't understand because they don't see your humanity. - Yeah, I think they may acknowledge it. - They may also be overwhelmed by the work that they're doing selling $60 Bibles. - I don't know, it might be, you know. - It might be, you know. - Yeah, could be. - They're busy over there. And that's one of the things that we really have tried to, like if you think about everything that's going on right now, everything that's happening in our state is a matter of, not that these individuals are problematic, but that you want to go in and to control how people live their lives, how they express their experience. And that's not fair to the citizens of Missouri. I went before the legislature and I asked them one of the committees, and I said, what are you actually doing to help Missouriians with the problems that we actually have? Our rural communities do not have adequate access to internet, you know? In our rural communities as well, we have people trying to do the voucher system, but they don't have alternatives. So pretty much the money's going to be taken out of their schools without them having an opportunity to use vouchers because there's no private schools in their communities. Our rural communities also don't have access to hospitals. They have to drive 45 minutes an hour to go to a hospital. Why aren't we looking at those issues? Why aren't we looking at jobs leaving, you know? - You make a great point because the thing that's so hard to understand truly is why would the people that you're describing that live in these rural areas, why wouldn't they be looking at the problems that black people face in this country and saying to themselves, we're going through the same issues and maybe if we got together, we could actually have an impact on making a change. And instead, look what they're doing. I mean, why are they trying to come after you? What do they think that's going to accomplish for themselves? - Well, one of the things that when you study history that you realize is that this has been a tactic that they have used since the beginning of slavery. And so the one step is the dehumanization of black people, brown people, basically saying, they're not like you, they're not human like you. They don't have the same human, you know, characteristics, et cetera. They're somehow so different from you as to be in a different category. And so we have a lot of that rhetoric now happening sometimes in very subtle ways, sometimes very blatantly. So that's the first thing. The next thing that you have to convince people of is that not only are these individuals so different than you, but they are so different to you that they don't deserve the same things that you deserve. And that sometimes you've got to take one for the team. There's a great book called "Dion of Whiteness" by I believe it's Jonathan Metzel. But it talks about the fact that some people have been so programmed around racism, you know, homophobia, transphobia, and homophobia, et cetera, that they are willing to sacrifice what benefits them in order to ensure that it doesn't benefit the people who they, you know, have their hatred and ire have been targeted towards. And so that's what we find. We have a lot of people in our state that they are, they see that it, you know, that, okay, this would benefit black people. It would also benefit me, but they've also been given a silent promise that we're gonna hurt the people that you wanna hurt, but that won't hurt you. The problem is, is a lot of people start realizing that no, when the hammer falls, it falls on all of us. And what we should be organizing around is socioeconomic differences as opposed to racial differences at, you know, ethnic differences, et cetera. - Yeah, and when Donald Trump said that the blood of America is being poisoned by immigrants coming from Africa, you know, I just don't even know how much more you have to put out there to convince people that something really horrible is happening. It's happening, and that's the thing about it. Like, you know, people started being like, oh, you're overreacting a little bit when it's like, okay, y'all, there's a lot of similarities between what happened in 1930s, Germany, and what's happening now in our country. And they're like, yeah, yeah, everybody always, you know, states Hitler, or goes to Hitler, and you're just overreacting. No, we can actually show that there's a lot. Like, for instance, we are having people that are wholeheartedly trying to be in books. That is one of the first steps that happened. - Wentzville, let us genocide, you know. - Wentzville's done it. Francis Hall has done it. - I live in Francis Hall, so I'm here right at Ground Zero having to deal with this stuff, and it's bad. It's just very, it's bad, it's wrong. And, but the whole thing is that it's part of a very concentrated plan. If anyone cares to re-project 2025 out of, I believe it's the Heritage Foundation. - Absolutely it is. - But it's terrifying to see what they plan. They put it out there, and we have a lot of people that still are like, well, you know, they don't really mean that. Yes, they do, yes, they do. And I've talked about this even recently, and that is that this project 2025 wants to destroy what they call somehow this administrative state that they believe is wrecking America. And the reality is, is that we have tens of thousands of people who take these exams, these civil service exams, in order to get a job so that they can work for an agency so that they can help all of us to live in the country, that Congress has really laid out in the laws. And to think that we can just wipe out these agencies and that Donald Trump can just put all of his favorite people in charge of all of this, well, it's just the most bizarre idea, and yet you're correct. The heritage people, they believe that this is the solution to some kind of a problem that's affecting our country. It's amazing. - You know, the big thing for people to realize is that Donald Trump is pretty much a useful idiot for the people on the right. They appeal to his ego. They appeal to what, you know, will get him going, get him to use his charisma, his connection to his base, et cetera, to, you know, really get the things done that they want to. Donald Trump doesn't have any plans. If you listen to him speak, there's no plans. So, so called. He appeals to prejudices, you know, to hatred, to fear, all of those things. But as far as laying out a specific plan, he looks for others to do that. And so that's the role that Heritage Foundation, Alec, and a few of the other right wing, you know, think tanks that they have fulfilled for him. So he's going to be the spearhead to put some of these things through that are just absolutely awful. They're awful. - So I'm sure trickling down, you know. - I'm sure that you talk to the legislature about these things. And so my question is, what do they say to you when you lay the plan out to them in terms of what's being done that's going to hurt them as well? - Our legislators, you know, we have a Republican, I think we're just one shy of a Republican super majority. We pretty much have a super majority. We've had one for 20 years now. And basically what they're all doing is they're all scrambling to maintain power. I don't want to say all, because we do have a lot of really good legislators. But many of our individuals on the right are struggling to maintain power by any means necessary. And so when they look at this plan, they look at these plans again, with the idea it's going to hurt them and not me. And we keep trying to stress like what the harm will be. Right now our state is experiencing teacher shortages all over. We can't keep good teachers. I spoke to a law class, some really bright individuals at Washington University, spoke to them. I asked of that class of like 30 students, how many of them planned on staying in Missouri and there were two? Wow. And that's only because they lived here. Yeah. They already they were raised here. Who was the professor in that class, do you remember? Denise Lieber. Okay. Yeah. Lieber, then she is just such a little dynamo. I love her so much. She does excellent work around voters and making sure that people have the right to vote. And it's all people to make sure that we are not disenfranchised, that we are able to fully participate in our democracy. And so I appreciate Denise for that. There's some great people in that Washington University law school that is for sure. I've done a lot of work with David Midgerian. Are you familiar with him? I'm not. Okay. Well, he's he's another great one. And I can tell you also I'm doing even right now, a lot of work with the people in the Black Studies Department at WashU. And I'm guessing you you may know them. Have you worked with them? Who? Shanti. Shanti. And Gerald. Gerald Early. I know Gerald. I know of Gerald Early. Okay. There's so many people and it's it's so funny. One of the best parts of this. And I hear I used to hear all the time. Well, you know, talking about this stuff just divides us. I don't know who you're talking to, because some of the closest relationships that I currently have have come from people that want to sit down and have these difficult conversations and then want to do something in order to work to make sure that everyone is together. So Gerald Early is the name that I've heard. And I would welcome the opportunity to speak to him and work with him. Yeah, Gerald's pretty famous because if you remember back to the story, maybe 20 years ago, he and his family were shopping at Frontenac and his family was inside. He was outside waiting for them. Turns out he was in front of a jewelry store and the police came and arrested him because obviously a black man was getting ready to rob a jewelry store. So. Yeah, and so that ends up being one of the aspects that we really try to talk about. Like, you know, I'm a black woman in leadership and how some of the anti-blackness, et cetera, that is ingrained in our society, how that can impact people that are just trying to do the best that they can. Like, there's so many individuals that I hear stories about that it's like they were doing something fairly innocuous. And, you know, next thing they know, they're accused of something or they're facing challenges that they should not be facing, you know. Yeah, we look at what's happening right now with Nikhailan Napper in Maplewood. She is one of the most caring individuals that I've ever met. She loves Maplewood. And she is facing so much backlash that comes from a real place of, you know, is disingenuous some of the criticisms that she is facing. And we see that a lot with our black leaders. And so you have to be vigilant about making sure, like that you're applying that lens to say, well, wait a minute, is this criticism like the legitimate criticism or is it coming from a place of, you know, I've got an unconscious bias that I really need to check. And I have to do it all the time, you know, I have to do it all the time with, you know, with checking my bias and where I might be, you know, overly critical of something that comes from a place that's just really not genuine. - Yeah, I've got to say, I've never gone wrong believing that in general white people are looking for trouble in this country. I've never gone wrong, not in all the years I've been here, unfortunately. And the other thing that they don't understand is, and you mentioned it a little earlier, and that is this whole privilege business, because, you know, here I am a 72 year old white guy with a bald head and a suit on. And all I have to do is walk into the Clayton courthouse and everybody there thinks I'm a judge, okay? And I mean, this is, you talk about bias, okay? They don't know, but they see something that's caught in their brain. And unfortunately, they're doing the opposite when it comes to black people. And as you say, brown people as well. And then the other thing, which is amazingly, it's an equal problem. And that is, you know, Asians, when people see Asians, they think, well, that person's a mathematical genius. No, that's not how it works. If they're a mathematical genius, they've done some work to become a mathematical genius. It's not because of how they look. It's not because of where their ancestors were born. And that's something that we're really dealing with in a widespread way across this entire country. It's out of control. - I think about this, there was a student of mine that with you being a teacher, you understand that you're constantly in a process of, especially if you're trying to be a good teacher, you're constantly in the process of, you know, reflecting on where have I, you know, really succeeded versus where is there some room for improvement? And I'll never forget that one year, there was a student of mine who fell below the radar. He was struggling. But this was a way that even a positive bias can harm him because of the fact that he was young Asian man. I, it fell under my radar to really look at what was going on with him 'cause I just made the assumption that he's fine and come to find out. It took me, you know, two or three weeks to really realize, okay, this kid is struggling and to put a good plan in place for it. But that's what people don't realize. DEI really is, especially in our classrooms. What diversity equity and inclusion does is that, first of all, it honors how we are all different. And then it puts things into place to ensure fairness. And I used to tell my students, I asked them this question, we did an activity at the beginning of the semester where it was like, okay, go to one side if you agree, go to the other side if you disagree. And I would, I would make this statement. As a teacher, I should treat all of my students equally. And so I'd have kids, of course, move to the, yeah, I agree with that. And I would tell them, no, I shouldn't. Because you wanna be treated as an individual and in the end, each of you need something different. And so as a good teacher, what I'm going to do is sit and assess what do you need. Some of you, you don't need me looking over your shoulder. You need me to just leave you alone until you have a question and then you come back and you ask me that question. Other people, they need me to sit down with them and kind of go through some of the stuff and talk to them so they can process the information. And so as a teacher, my job is to figure out what do you need in order for you to best succeed and to provide that. And that's the simple reality that a lot of the people, like today, many of us have gone to vote for school board candidates. And a lot of the rhetoric around school board is we just need to get back to the basics. Well, guess what, if you get back to the so-called basics, you're gonna have a lot of kids failing. Because part of good teaching is not just, I knew a lot of great teachers that understood their subject area but didn't understand students. - Sure, well, that's everything. And being able to connect with young people and to get them to know that you do care about what's happening to them. And the work that you're doing is not only meaningful in terms of what the classroom is doing, but it's meaningful in terms of what the teacher is trying to accomplish as a teacher, as a person that's a mentor to young people. And I know, in my case, it's high school kids, I wouldn't even know what to do with the little ones. I mean, I've obviously-- - I mean, each day. - I've had little ones, but you get into school with other people's little ones, I don't know. But you give me a teenager. - I used to tell people, I used to tell people all the time that if hell is a place where they individualize it for you, then my personal hell would be a room filled with cats, this black walnut tree that I'm highly allergic to or black elder tree and kindergartners, or room full of kindergartners. - Right. - Because same thing, I can't, my jam is high school kids. - That's me, yeah. - Yeah. - Well, listen, Heather, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on and talk to us. And I look forward to maybe coming back to you some more as just things are happening out here. And so I'll know that you're somebody that can really speak to some of the problems in our education system. - I would love that, Mark. The biggest thing right now that I want people to keep in mind is that we have an educational system that needs work, but the way that we work on it is not by privatizing it and sending it, giving it to other people and making it responsible so that it's only accessible by a few people. And so right now what we should be doing is individuals is getting serious people around the table to talk about what do we need to change and how do we change it for the better so that it really benefits and educates every child in our state, in our country. So thank you, me and I. - Okay. - I can't wait to speak to you some more. - Well, thank you very much, Heather. And we will catch up with you again soon. - Sounds good. - Okay. So first, before we move on here, I wanna talk a little bit about where you can get something great to eat tonight. When you're done with showdown and whatever else you have to do this evening, you can go to 18,000 Chesterfield Airport Road and get the best food at Winties. Now you're talking about baby back ribs. You're talking about onion rings. You're talking about pizza and smoked meats and patty melts and just everything imaginable. Wings, all the good food that you could think of pizza. Come on, you can't miss with pizza. So look, Winties is at 18,000 Chesterfield Airport Road. Great restaurant, really is. And terrific environment, just to go sit down and eat with people. Ben is there, he's the owner and he will love to talk to. He talks to everybody, he's just a friendly outgoing guy that wants to be sure that that restaurant is the best that it can be. And it is. That's Winties, 18,000 Chesterfield Airport Road in Chesterfield Valley. Now if you're interested in jewelry, you can go straight to 4506 Hampton and that's Jules on Hampton where they buy and sell jewelry and coins. They will create jewelry for you in the most creative way that you can imagine. You give them some license and they'll go out and make sure that you come up with some great pieces of jewelry or you can tell them exactly what you want and Al will make sure it is exactly what you want. So again, that's Jules on Hampton, 4506 Hampton in St. Louis. And there's both Al and AJ, they're there all the time, ready to help and as I always point out, you know, I've got my 45 year old Seiko watch. It's a very nice gold Seiko watch and believe me, 45 years, they don't work without somebody doing something. So trust me, the place to go, get your watch fixed is Jules on Hampton, 4506 Hampton. Now, you'll notice that today I'm wearing a pink shirt as well as a pink and black tie along with my charcoal suit. And I of course got this from the St. Louis suit company in Clayton and they are on the corner of Forsyth and Central and I promise you, they've got the greatest clothes that you can imagine, everything that you would wanna wear to work with a tie and a shirt and your suit. And of course, this is 2024, so forget the dress shoes, I'm done with that. I wear my Chuck Taylor's and as my students at school say, yeah, Kason, wear those chucks. You know, I wear the black chucks and they want me to wear the red chucks. Well, that's all good, very comfortable. But that's a little different, but it's now fashionable and that's great 'cause it goes terrific with the suits and ties and shirts and everything else overcoats that you can get at the St. Louis suit company. And let me remind you, I was talking to Joe here who's our great producer and I was pointing out to him that I've been walking around for three days now with this overcoat I've got. And people look at me like, what's that for? Well, guess what, walk around outside and you'll find out what that's for because it's St. Louis and they wanna remind you that it's not over yet, this is not summer. So be careful, you gotta dress up out there so you can be comfortable. And the place to go to get those great clothes are the St. Louis suit company in Clayton and remember the ties are $5 and they're good ties. Great silk ties, just like the ones you could get from Donald for 50 bucks and the ones from Donald of course will choke you. And these, you'll be very comfortable and live a long and healthy life because the St. Louis suit company is a great place that's been there for 29 years. Okay, so last night after we left the studio right around that time, the news broke that Donald managed to get his $175 million bond which protects him from Latisha James, that horrible person that wants to come in and take all his properties. And it's sort of interesting what happened. I've been saying for a while that it was highly probable that Donald would get his money from Vladimir Putin but as it turns out, it doesn't look like that's true although I wouldn't completely rule it out because he actually got it from a guy named Don Hanky but we don't know where Hanky got the money but that's all right, I'm not gonna worry about that right now but the deal is $175 million posted by the Knight Specialty Insurance Company whoever heard of them but at any rate, don't worry, they are a company that has put a ton of money into Donald Trump and let me put it to you this way. If you owe somebody a dollar, they're gonna want their dollar for sure and they're gonna say, can I have my dollar? And if you owe somebody $20, they'll probably do the same thing but if you owe them a million dollars and they know that you're maybe not able to come up with that money, the first thing that they're doing is they're thinking about what can they do to not get wiped out on this deal? They may have loaned the money the wrong person and now they wanna make sure they get their million and what they may have to do is they may have to loan you another 100,000 to keep you afloat so you don't go bankrupt on the whole thing and end up taking this person down. Well, that is exactly where Don Hanky and the special Knight people, Knight Special Insurance Company, that's exactly where they find themselves because Donald is about a step away from having everything taken from him which includes properties that have had money lent to Donald by the Knight Specialty Insurance Company. So this is a really bad situation for Don Hanky. He really had to come up with this $175 million because without it, all these properties that are backing up his previous loans, well, they'd have been in the hands of Leticia James and Hanky wants his properties if that's what it comes to and he certainly wants his money back but he can't get it from Donald 'cause Donald doesn't have a penny. So Hanky steps off with wherever he got his money and he loans it to Donald so that perhaps somewhere down the line, this might work out for both Donald and for Don Hanky because otherwise they're both down the tubes. So this is an interesting situation. There really wasn't much choice. This guy had to find a way to help Trump and he did. Now, he's sort of an interesting person all by himself because back when we had the bad situation with the housing market and all the money was lent to people who couldn't afford homes because they didn't qualify for the loans. They were called subprime borrowers. Don Hanky was one of the leaders in doing this and lending money to people who couldn't afford to pay a back. Gee, who's that sound like? Sounds like this is a perfect business for him. Loan Donald, everything you can because believe me, he can't pay anything back. So anyway, that's what Hanky did and now he's trying to protect his investment and I understand why because Trump's going down the drain. That's for sure. And in fact, there was a guy today and I like this guy, I never heard of him before, but I like him a lot. His name is Dr. John Gardner and Dr. Gardner is a psychologist and he has taught and done research at John Hopkins Medical Center for 28 years. I mean, this guy is highly regarded, just somebody that the people in the psychology area really trust. Well, Gardner today says that from his observations that it appears to him that Donald is just about ready to go over the cliff. And listen, I haven't been one day in medical school I know I've got those Ph.D. hours in educational psychology, but it's a different kind of psychology. I don't know anything about people that are about to go bonkers, but I can tell you, this is the guy, Donald is the guy. I don't know who in the country is what, but I know what Donald is and you can ask his niece as well. Mary Trump will be happy to tell you all that she has seen in Donald over the last, you know, 25, 30 years or longer of her work in psychology. So anyway, I just thought it was, you know, sort of interesting that we've got somebody out here with some real credentials who is taking a good look at Donald and says, you know, the cliff heading right over it. So we'll see how that goes. And I guess, you know, he was happy to get that 175 million that, you know, Donald was. But let me also add this and I've pointed this out before because, you know, I read not very much of it, but I read some magazines and online reports. They're pretty bizarre. And these things talk about, you know, Donald Trump and, you know, all the ways that he's being mistreated and that everything, you know, all the bad things that are being done to him, you know, whoa, is poor Donald, you know, but in any event, Trump is being mistreated, but they do say that he did win one time when he got the $175 million reduction, that was a big win for Donald. But I do want to remind you, and I did talk about this the other day, wasn't quite the win that Donald and his people are trying to point out because in fact, what really happened is this. In addition to getting the lowered number on the bond, which the state of New York did that for a reason. They're not dumb. They want to make sure that they get something. This assures them of $175 million. Now on the rest of it, the rest of the $450 million or $500 million, whatever it ends up at the end of all this appeal business, they can still go after it. They can still grab all the assets possible. They can still, you know, take the properties and so forth. But the point is, they've got a guarantee of $175 million. So that's what they wanted. They wanted to be sure they had something that was really locked in. So that's first. Now the second thing is, when you are appealing a case like this, this is a civil fraud case in which Donald was found guilty, guilty of fraud. He defrauded the government. He defrauded insurance companies. He defrauded everybody he could. I mean, he lied about everything. He's still saying it. He says, you know, or let me say it started this way. They say people, real estate people, say that his club is worth like $18 million, whatever it is, $28 million. Okay, call it whatever you want. I mean, there's a range in all of this. There's no doubt about that. Donald's always emphasizing that there's a range and some people have different views of all of this. But Donald says that it's worth 100 times that $28 million. 100 times, he claims that all of his properties are worth billions of dollars. Things that no one else could sell for more than, you know, $5 million, $10 million for, you know, various properties. But in his view, it's all worth billions of dollars. Well, again, I think that goes to John Gardner and the whole business of Donald going over the cliff. But I do want to point out what actually happened here. And that is that in this appeal process, you've got about nine months to come up with the final information that you delivered to the court and that is perfected at the court in order to give the court the ability to come back and say, okay, we're going to evaluate what Trump says and we're going to figure out whether the appeal is justified or not. Now, the problem is Donald had nine months. So nine months added on to say whatever was the end of March. So that would take you to November after the election. And that would be November 25th, say, 'cause it was March 25th that he was supposed to come up with the money for this. Anyway, the court and the state of New York said, we're going to give you the reduction to $175 million. But we're not giving you until November 25th. We're going to give you until July 1st. We want everything in perfected, certified, whatever you want to call it, I didn't go to law school, but they want it in and done by July 1st. And that's a fact, that's the deal that was made. So the state of New York got two things out of this. They got to guarantee that they will get something and then they also got this hurry up and get the appeal done process so that this would get out of the way in a relatively short period of time. Now, I don't know how long it'll take after the July 1st deadline is met, which will be met, trust me. They're going to meet it because if they don't, the courts are going to go bonkers on him. And listen, they're going to go bonkers on him anyway, because figure this one out, July 1st. Oh, that's a couple of months after the Manhattan trial gets underway because that's going to start on the 15th. And today is the second, the second of April and the 15th of April, that's the day that jury vore dear will begin. That's where they question the jurors and decide who they can keep and who they want to try to get rid of. And I can tell you that if that takes two weeks and it might, it might take three. You know, Donald's going to try to push this out as far as he can, but whatever it takes, the trial will then get underway and it's going to be quick. It might take four weeks, it might take six weeks. I'm going to say everything is going to be said and done with a verdict by July 1st. So July 1st, which happens to be the date of the appeal process in the Eugene Carroll, oh no, I'm sorry, wrong case. I mean, yeah, that's the other thing I love is getting the cases wrong because who could remember which case is which, but the civil fraud case, okay? The EG Carroll appeals another story and that's probably going to take a year because there isn't a special deal on that one. But on the fraud case, there is a special deal. July 1st, that has to be in and finished and on its way so that the judicial system can make some decisions about whether this, this $450 million verdict is a good one or not. And I'll bet you that if they take anything off that deal, it'll be $20 million and so instead of $450 million, which by that time with interest, it's liable to be $550 million. So maybe they'll drop it to $530 million. He's going to pay, he is going to pay. And one of the reasons that's true, I'm not just saying it, this guy has spent 40 years defrauding everybody he could get to, including the state of New York, and especially the state of New York, that's where he's operated this whole time. And I can guarantee you that they are going to get what they're coming for here. And that is justice. I mean, they want justice. They are tired of Donald stepping all over the state of New York and everybody that he could all the way back to the days when he wouldn't let black people rent apartments in New York. Yeah, don't forget that one. You can go look that up on Google anytime you want. This guy and his family have done everything imaginable. Not good. So check it out, but at any rate, we're really focusing in on the end to some of these activities, like the fraud case, the e-gene Carol case, that's going to take a year. And then of course, we're going to have the trial, the first criminal trial that's, in my opinion, going to be over July 1st, but hey, if I'm wrong and it's July 10th, sue me. Yeah, you won't win against me on this one the way you're going to win against Donald because when it comes to suing Donald, suddenly people are winning. Okay, so that's part of the situation. And then let me also say that Donald has a number of additional problems. For example, Hope Hicks, this was some great friend of his. Hope Hicks, she's been with him for many years and presumably she still likes the guy. She acts like she does. She hasn't really turned on him at this point, but there's a subpoena out here and she is going to have to tell the truth because if she doesn't, they're going to get her for perjury. And I can assure you, she is going to respond to the subpoena because she knows where Peter Navarro is in jail and she does not want to be there. So she along with other people are definitely coming around to the idea that it's time to stop trying to protect Donald Trump at the expense of yourself personally. And that's why the Don Hanky story is really such a great one because a lot of people today on Donald side are trying to say, well, Hanky recognizes the greatness of Trump and wants to give him all this money. No, no, that's not what's happening. What he's doing is protecting his own interests because he owes far too much, or he's got far too much owed to him by Donald. And if he's not careful, he's going to end up with nothing. So, okay, so all these things are happening and these are all good and interesting things. Here's one that I think is really worth taking a look at and this is a case in Michigan where Donald and his people are pointing to an immigrant who ended up in Michigan with his, I believe it's his wife, don't quote me, could be a girlfriend, but whatever the situation is a partner and this immigrant, first he had been thrown out under Trump and then he came back, he got back in, which of course they want to blame on Joe Biden. And then when he got back in, he came back and he killed his partner. And so presumably this is evidence that immigrants are murderers, they'll kill their wives, their girlfriends, their partners, they'll do everything imaginably horrible because that's just the way these people are. They just want to get you. Well, here's what I'd like you to do because it's one guy. This is what we call anecdotal information. It's one story. It's one example of something that none of us like, the guy was thrown out and he got back in. And Joe Biden can't stand at the border and block everybody that's coming in. And the fact is that we do allow people in and we should allow people in. Here is the point. If you go to my website and the website is talk, T-A-L-K, talkstl.net and then there's a place where it tells you that you can read articles. I think it says reading room and then you click it and then you scroll down a little bit and then you're gonna find an article about immigrants. There we go, Joe's showing it to you right there. And in that reading room, there is a great article in the 2000s. It's, you know, during the 2000s, it's not like 90 years ago. And it refers to the research done on people who come here from other countries, how much crime they commit and how much crime is committed by people who already live here or people who were born here. And I have to tell you, the difference is enormous. That is, the people who were born in the United States commit the crimes. Our people, our American citizens, we are the ones who commit by far the vast number of these crimes, violent crimes, murder. It's us, we do it. The people who come from other countries, they come here to make their lives better, to work on the bridge in Baltimore, Baltimore, they're trying to help themselves. And in the process, they're truly helping us. And the statistics are by far pointing in that direction. This is not anything that has to do with people coming from other countries and murdering us. That's not what's going on. We're murdering ourselves because we've got guns that we shouldn't have. Get rid of the guns and we'll get rid of the murders. All of these people that show up and are involved in the mass murders that we have here, which no one sees in other countries. Those people aren't from Venezuela. Those people aren't from the Dominican Republic. Those people aren't from Mexico. Those people are from the United States of America and they've got guns that should never be in their hands. They shouldn't be near those guns. And I know that we've got some crazy idea that there's something called the Second Amendment. Well, let me tell you something. The Second Amendment does not say anything about you having the right to have a gun, nothing, zero. A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, comma. Given that, given that first statement, it has to do with a well-regulated state, I'm sorry, a well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state. You should know these words. You should be able to recite them. I can. A well-regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, comma. The right of the people to keep them bare arms shall not be infringed. It is directly tied to this idea that the United States should have not a loose group of people wandering around with guns, a well-regulated militia. And by the way, in case you don't know, go look it up. The commander-in-chief of the militia is the president of the United States. That's the words in the Constitution. And I can tell you exactly who to read. Go find a book by Saul Cornell. Saul Cornell is a great constitutional scholar and you can read him and find out all about the history of the Second Amendment because it is nothing like what you think it is. It has nothing to do with you being a lot of have a gun. Now, it is true that if the Supreme Court says that it means that, well, then that's what it means because that is our system. The Supreme Court has a right to twist themselves around like a pretzel and make up something that is not true. They can do it, but I promise you, it's not true. But this is what is true. This is the end of the show. This is showdown. I'm Mark Kason. See you tomorrow night. And by the way, my guests tomorrow night will be Vic Faust. See you then.