(upbeat music) - Welcome to Whileowing in the Shallows, the podcast that skirts the perilous drop off of a deep dive into television and movies. We are Academic Nerds aspiring to become TV and movie geeks. There are no spoiler cards in the shallows, so listen at your own risk. This week, join us for a while and a Buffy the Vampire Slayer, season two, rewatch. (upbeat music) - Hey, hello, peeps. Welcome back to Whileowing in the Shallows, this is Torey. - And this is Rebecca, and we're talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer, season two, episode 12, Bad Eggs. - Let's talk about sex, baby. (both laughing) - Yes, yes, let's do. - Everybody, everybody's getting some in this episode, apparently. I've got a little summary. - Go for it. - So cowboy vampire brothers descend on Sunnydale, couples Buffy and Angel, as well as Xander and Cordelia, can't keep their hands off each other. Mr. Whitmore, the sex ed teacher, hands out eggs to teach responsibility, but they are bad eggs. (both laughing) The eggs hatch into the creatures from Alien and take control over the humans. Since Buffy killed hers and Xander boiled his, they are able to get to the bottom of the problem, Mama Baezor in the ground below the boiler room. Buffy kills it and peace returns to Sunnydale. (both laughing) - I since succinct, lovely. Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned Aliens, 'cause of course I also caught that little nod to Alien, and I was like, how did that thing fit in that little egg to expand when oxygen hit it? - Excellent question. I do not feel like conservation of mass was obeyed in this. - It must have like jelly for endoskeleton to be able to squish itself. - Yeah, that just like hardened as soon as it touched air or whatever. - Just an O2. - Yes, exactly, exactly. But oh, is it was running around? I mean, that was just so alien. - Yeah, oh, for sure. I'm like, couldn't have had a more obvious nod to pop culture. - 100%, 100%. And I mean, the Cowboys were really almost secondary. It was almost like, oh, there you are when they showed up at the end and they sort of joined forces for like two seconds. But it found out that that's also a reference to something. - Ooh. - Lyle and Tector Gorch? 'Cause I was like, is that real name Tector? And what I found out is those are actually characters from a 1969 Western called The Wild Bunch, which I'd heard of but never seen. And it's got stars William Holden and Ernest Borgnine. - Oh my gosh. I'm so glad you got to the bottom of that because I looked up the year of that massacre in Mexico or whatever and got no joy. So, but you found a lead which yielded something. - Yeah, 'cause I mean, I also did that and I looked through the plot for this movie to see if maybe that was something that was in this movie but it wasn't, but it does occur along the US-Mexican border. - Huh, so like around 1911, somewhere around there, 1912 maybe, is what it's supposed to take place. So, yeah, I was like, interesting. And again, I've heard of that movie. - I have not. - But I've never watched it. And I, 'cause I was not a big, I didn't really like Westerns. I still don't really like Westerns, but, but anyways, yeah, I was really surprised. I was like, holy cow, that's actually, those are characters from that movie. - That is a very cool connection. - Yeah, yeah. - Those cowboys stuck out like sore thumbs in Sunnydale. I mean, even the first shot where we see the cowboy boots and it pans up to this guy and a cowboy hat, I'm like, well, that's weird. And then of course he becomes important. - Right, right. - But yeah, I just, they really, they really stuck out in that, of course, when they open their mouths, they stuck out even more, but. (laughing) - Yeah. - But before we get too far into their part of the plot, ouch, callin' your daughter a street walker? - Joyce was harsh in this episode. - I didn't care for it. And then to add insult to injury. - An insult to injury, then not energy. Then Buffy's like, at least I'm a thin street walker and I'm like, oh, great. So first we've got street walker and then we're raising up skin and bones. You know, this is not a good start for me with this episode. (laughing) - Yeah, it's tough. I don't think my mom ever referred to me or my sister in any kind of derogatory terms like that. - It was harsh. It did not seem like that would be in the parenting book. - Yeah, and it just makes you wonder if, I mean, this was written I think primarily by Marty Noxen, but did she have some issues that she needed to work out because, you know, as I mentioned, Joyce is pretty harsh in this episode. - Yeah, so that's a possibility. And just maybe the parenting that she grew up with was it very positive? I do not know, but since parenting is like a major theme, parenting and responsibility, because of SAC, you kind of wonder because I thought Joyce overreacted quite a bit in this episode. - Agreed. Agreed. I mean, grounded for life. You can't even leave your room. - I know. - Well, she's going to get even thinner. She can't even. - Yeah, yeah. - I don't know. - I couldn't help thinking that I was like, "Man, you're just making more work for yourself, Joyce, 'cause if she can't even leave her room to come down for dinner, now you've got to haul our food up and down the stairs." - It was, it just was ridiculous. Obviously this is not going to last very long. - Yeah, that's for sure. I kind of wondered, and maybe I'm probably not maybe, probably reading too much into it, but the store that Joyce's outfit is supposedly from, the one that Buffy's supposed to pick up at the dry cleaner. - Yeah, moo moos are us. I mean, whoops that. - Well, that's what Buffy calls it, for it. - For everyday woman. - Everyday woman, yeah. You know, after doing some thinking about what am I going to talk about in this episode, I was wondering if that's some kind of oblique reference to all women are supposed to want to be mothers and so forth. But again, I'm probably reading way too much into this. - Interesting, well, we definitely, yeah, that theme will definitely be touching on that because like the discussion between Angel and Buffy and Angel like, you know, listen, a relationship with me does not lead to what the picket fence and babies, yeah, in the yard and Buffy's just like, I don't care, all I see in my future is you, a very teenage response. - Oh yeah, yeah, but she's good with the very teenage responses. - And she's earned it, she is one, but Angel should know better. - Yeah, my consistent frustration with him being in this relationship, but anyway, I did not catch right away why Buffy was suspicious of the cowboy. I was like, what's going on? Why is he following her? Why is she following him? And then I watched it again and I was like, okay, then she's looking over at this other escalator going up, oh boy, that girl looks a lot like the girl that is with, what has she got a twin sister? And then I'm like, oh, okay. So he doesn't have a reflection, but it was like there was no one else in that reflection either. I don't know, it just didn't, it really took me, I rewound a couple of times 'cause I just didn't understand why Buffy was so alarmed. And then clearly it was lack of reflection, but it just didn't jump out to me right away, obviously. - Yeah, and maybe her, you know, Spidey senses were tingling. - Yes, but I just, I mean, come on, if there was a mirror up that whole escalator, no one else notices this guy lost a reflection. - I didn't know that is weird. I did think about that. I'm like, wow, you'd think other people would notice that too. - Oh, yeah. But some nice quick thinking, Buffy pretending to be the spurned lover to get the woman safely away. - Mm-hmm, right, to get her safely away. - Yeah, again, when she's like in those confrontations and in in flayer mode, she can come up with those quips free or explanations pretty fast and things. It's just when she's trying to cover for herself. - That doesn't go so well. - Yeah, yeah. And of course, we've got more use of diminatives from the males in the series. And just like, come on, what did he call her? - Sugar lips. - Sugar lips. - Sugar lips, yes, I was like, oh my God, stake him already. - I hated it. Though he had a good hat catch. I was impressed when they were fighting and his hat came off and he just kind of caught it and put it back on. - Yeah, I wonder if that was, well, clearly it probably wasn't supposed to happen, but I wonder if that was the first take or if it was the second take or what. - Yeah, it was impressive. Whatever take it was, I was impressed. - Yeah, I kind of had this image of the whole crew going, and then, oh! - Yeah. - Yeah. - God, you see him catch that? - Sweet, we got to use that one. - God, print! - Yes, yes. - Oh, yeah, I thought when we get to the food court, and Joyce is waiting for Buffy, and Joyce is like, don't you ever think of anything else, but boys and clothes, and she's harping on responsibility, and I was like, let's, they really kind of knock that a little bit hard in this episode. This responsibility, it's not subtle in any way, shape, or form. - No, it really isn't. I really did not like Joyce in this episode, and later, she's talking to Giles, and she's like... - It could be such a, oh, I don't want to say burden, but... - Yeah, our kids are just a bird at the end, you know. I understand, kids are a burden. I'm not saying they're not. - That's why I have none. - Right, exactly, exactly. We as well, but... - Well, not a burden. - I just didn't want the responsibility. - Right, well, I have a variety of reasons, but one of the benefits certainly is not to have the responsibility. But, yeah, it just was off-putting. It was off-putting just how much Joyce was annoying. And I still, and again, I think that both Joyce and the principal completely overreact to Buffy's behavior. I just do not think that she is ostensibly doing too many terrible things. And Joyce, do you not remember the situation where you were being attacked by vampires? - Yeah. - Last season, and how you were so proud of your daughter, how she stood up to things, and I don't know. - I don't know, she annoyed the heck out of me. - It's not even last season, it's this season. - Oh, gosh. - Because you remember, it's right, because it was this principle. Yeah, absolutely. Nope, you're right, it was even more recently. - Yeah, yeah. How quickly Joyce gets into my, she's quite fickle. - Yeah, very, very, and thus annoying to me. - Yeah, I wondered what you thought in this scene when Joyce is accusing her of not thinking about anything. - And Buffy's like saving the world from vampires. - Yeah, and so she tells Joyce, but clearly, gets no reaction. - No, and this is again, I know that last episode, she had the, the, the, the drugging, but she just doesn't listen to Buffy. - Nope, she does not. - So, it was on crosswatch as usual. - Yes, I don't see her wearing angels cross at all this, in this episode. - She wears a cross, right? - Where's a cross, but not-- - But it's a subtler on. - Yeah, yeah, anyhow. Yeah, that brings us up to the opening credits. Take us a little while to get there. - Or not, it may not take you and I a little bit to get there. - Of course, of course. - And then right after, don't we have Cordelia and Xander making out in the closet? - Yes. - He doesn't want to listen, she doesn't want to see, but they can't keep their hands off each other. - Oh gosh, that's, I mean, if you have a sexual attraction for somebody, you have a sexual attraction for somebody. You don't care what other people think about it. - Oh, absolutely. I mean, obviously there's nothing mature about this interaction, but I will say, I think that Cordelia's issue isn't so much Xander's physical appearance. It's what he wears. I think she's troubled by his fashion choices. I think naked should have no problem with him, but she just cannot stand what he chooses to put on his body. And sometimes she has a point. - Sometimes she does. I don't think his clothes were too bad in this episode. - Oh my gosh, there's one pair of dad golf pants, they're terrible. We only see a flash of them, I mean, you have a note of when it is, but it's like, where did he get those pants from my grandpa's closet? You know, it was horrific. I must've missed that. - Oh, it was bad. - Yeah, and then we're in sex ed class. - Good old Mr. Whitmore, and obvious much Cordelia and Xander. - I know, I know. Yeah, I mean, of course, I mean, anybody who sees that kind of banter between two people is like, "Yeah, that's some sexual tension there." - Mm-hmm, that's a... - Quite obvious they're talking about each other. - Yes. - And yet, Xander appears to want to share the egg responsibilities with Cordelia, but she leans over to the guy, near Skye, doing like one half a baby together. (laughing) - Yeah, she's trying to prove a point. - Yes. - And I liked how Willow looked uncomfortable. - Yeah, Willow, and Willow tried to partner up with Xander. - Mm-hmm, but that didn't go well. And she actually has a good reason for a good, significant consequence of sex pregnancy. I think STDs should have come up pretty quickly as well, but absolutely pregnancy important one. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Okay, Buffy has skipped sex ed. - I don't know, I mean, she just seems like vampire stuff. Oh, I don't know. Or were you just getting a morning make-out sash with Angel? (laughing) - Well, she's got to tell Giles about the gorge, about the lion gorge. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - Which couldn't wait until second period. (laughing) - Yeah, we got some cowboy vampires, Giles. - Yeah, yeah, who are apparently not the sharpest tools in the shed, which you can see much of that later? - Yeah, yeah. I thought it was kind of interesting in the scene, you know, up to this point we hear about is Buffy, I don't want to see whining, but expressing concern for this fate that she has being the slayer. - Yeah. - And now she's like, "Undoom to leave my mother's life." - I don't think so, Buffy. - I don't think you have the same path, your mom had. - No, no, no, no. But it was a change to not hear her lamenting her future as being the slayer. (laughing) - Yes, yes, and she gets to experience being a single mom. Though it was interesting, it really didn't seem like there was that much they needed to do for this egg. I actually never took sex ed, it explains a lot, but I got out of it because I don't know, something in my schedule, there was a scheduling conflict, and I needed to take, you know, some kind of honors class or whatever. So my dad went up to the school and like argued, this is not an important, you know, it was required for everybody, but my dad somehow got me out of it. - Mm-hmm, I think we had to do that egg thing. - I never did, so I didn't have to do anything like this, nor did I learn condom, you know, application. - I figured it out later on, I didn't take the class, it was human growth and development at night. - I don't remember what ours was called, but probably just health class. - Yeah, yeah. - Oh my goodness. - Okay, so then, oh my gosh, all this making out between Angel and Buffy, I got a little tired of it, and I mean, and the brothers are like 10 feet away. I mean, thank goodness these brothers are cowards and idiots because they could have been in some serious trouble. - Yeah, that's for sure. Clearly hormones will overpower her spidey sense. - Yes. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Let's see, what have you got next? - Well, I didn't, the only other thing I was like, boy, Angelus must have really, or Angelus, Angelus, how are we gonna say it? - Angelus really had a rep if the Gorch brothers knew about it. - No doubt. Everybody knows about what a terrible vampire he was. - Yeah, well, you gotta be really bad if all the other ramps know about you. - Yeah, yeah. - And I wish they, I don't know. I think they took the easy way when Buffy gave a name to her egg. - Egg purged. - Yes, I said, here's my exact, this is my description of this scene. - Egg burp, original, oh wow. Egg burp is hatching, and he's kinda nasty, dot, dot, dot. - Yuck. (both laughing) - Yeah. - As the tendrils come out and lie. - Yeah, I did hate her. - I turned my head away when that thing hatches and that long, very penile looking thing comes out. - It was disgusting. - Yes. - So, that says, it has like 10, that has one freaking long tentacle. - It was disgusting. And then we really don't see that appendage so much later when it actually hatches. - Right, right. - So, who knows, who knows what's going on in that thing. And then the shell completely repairs itself. So-- - Wow, I know, I was like, wow, that's one hello shell. - Yeah. - There's no Humpty Dumpty cracks in that one. - Nope. - And I was trying to figure out, I'm sorry, I'm jumping ahead. There's no segue here. - When the gorges are in the sewer. - Oh, yeah. - Is this scene supposed to be? - We just get to see that the gorges are like total idiots. Is that the whole purpose of this scene? - Good question. We know thereafter the Slayer, are they just kind of, they were so tangential to this whole episode. It really did. And maybe it was sort of a misdirect, like we were supposed to, and this is probably what it was, except they titled it Bad Eggs. But it seemed like they were gonna be baddies in this episode. They were gonna have to, that the team was up against, but it was really the egg situation. So I don't know. Eating rats, these brothers are stupid. I didn't have much time for them. - I'm wondering, and again, maybe I'm just picking out something to have to talk about, but I did catch the frick. You know, when Tector's talking about Angel and him being with Buffy, and he says, - I mean, there's a man handle code. - No, I don't know if that's just that, because you know, you got a code is our thing that I kind of picked that out, but maybe that's something important. - Oh, I'll have to mull that over. - I mean, clearly him making out with the vampire Slayer, he's violating everything that any vampire holds dear. And they had a front row seat to that make out sesh. - Yeah, that they did, that they did. I have to admit, I caught a colloquialism because it was used all the time when I was growing up. When Lyle says I'm gonna beat you like a redheaded step child. - I heard that, and I'm not very familiar with that. - Man, it was really big, that the crowd was from, just like I was watching something earlier today, and it was, they were back in Indiana and people were saying anyways. And I was like, yeah, that's back, oh man, not Indiana, I'm from Ohio, but the same. - Oh yeah. - Kind of area. And I'm like, yeah, it's not just me, everybody back there says anyways. And I know, I guess I said, I grew up hearing that thing, redheaded step child, and I kind of wondered, it made me wonder like, where did that originate? And they think it might have started, I don't know for sure, but probably like in the mid-1800s, when there was a huge influx of immigrants from Ireland because of the famine. - Uh-huh. - And of course, red hair and the Irish are two things that go together, but it actually started to appear in newspaper and magazine articles in the 1910s. And it refers to the mistreatment of a person because of their appearance. - Wow. - And that was from a website called Digital Culture. - Oh, just thought I'd throw that in there. - Yeah, absolutely, look, you know, get something interesting about this episode, which again, not my favorite. - Yeah, it was funny, had a good jumping ahead again. Did you have anything to say about that sewer scene before I march on? - Nope, nope. - Okay, we're ready to move. - Okay, when Buffy's alarm went off, I literally almost threw down my notepad and jumped up 'cause it sounded exactly like my alarm. Like television door, television, 'cause I was in my head going, "What the hell is my alarm going off for?" - That's funny. That's funny, it's been a while since I've used my alarm. I get to the point now where like I set an alarm, but I always wake up before it. Anyway, again, a reference to Buffy not eating. I am on anorexia watch or something. I mean, I can't, just, I do not care for how often Buffy's weight and her lack of eating is pointed out here. - Yeah. - It seems unnecessary and, if I dare say, harmful. So, I'm not hungry. - Yeah, well, especially harmful when you think about how popular this show was. - Yes, and this is a role model. I hate Buffy's a role model and she's strong. - Yes, she's not always, she definitely has high school teenager tendencies, but, and I know that it's a fact to be wrestled with, but it's just too much. I mean, she's clearly not someone with a weight problem. - Right. - I mean, and so, just these, this constant, I should count up the number of episodes where something about her not eating or something about her being thin is brought up. Now, her being small is different. - Right. - It's sort of tiny, but fierce, you know, dynamite in small packages. I'm really referring to around eating and in. - Right, right. - Right, well, it just helps to perpetuate that. - Yeah, I guess if I want to be like Buffy, exactly, if I want to be like Buffy, I shouldn't eat. I should just have coffee in the morning and, you know. - Yeah. - Never eat any food. - Yeah, yeah, God, yeah. Let's hope, and I don't remember, but let's hope that that starts to taper off as the series moves on. - That would be great. - But again, I can't say for sure. I don't remember 'cause it wasn't anything that I was necessarily focused on. - Sure, yeah. - Of course, I just wish we could all be like bears, right? Where you're expected to get really heavy, just eat a lot and get heavy. (laughs) - There we go, prepare for the impending hibernation, right? - Yeah. (laughs) - Well, so-- - Yeah, not that she looks bad. I mean, she doesn't look in a recsick or like she's starving herself. - No, she is a small framed person. - Yes. - And that is just a fact. We all have different builds and we all have weights that are appropriately healthy for our builds. - Right, right. - And that does not look the same for everyone. And so, yeah, it's fine that she is, she has the frame and the body she does. It's the constant harping on it. - Yeah, it drives me nuts. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - So-- - Yeah, I'm gonna clarify, we're not trying to body shame thinner people. - No, absolutely not. - Absolutely not. - Absolutely not. - Should be a body shaming period. - There should not be that focus on that standard. - Thank you, thank you. Very well set, very well set. - Cool, all right. - Class just, class just gets canceled. Teacher doesn't show up, class just, no substitute, just let the students run free. (laughing) - Class was canceled. - Yeah. - Okay. - Sure, 'cause that always happened in high school. - Never once. - Yeah. And we find out that Zander Boyle was sick. (laughing) - Which ends up being fantastic. - Yeah. - This was, this was clever, though, the shell would still crack. - And later, he's like ready to eat it. I mean, he's really, he just does not care about passing this assignment. Feel bad for his partner, you know. (laughing) But wait, hold on. You just peeled an eight, the child that we were supposed to. - Cannibalism, cannibalism, goodness. - I did appreciate his Nick Lowe reference though, that you gotta be cruel to be kind. (laughing) You know that song? - I don't, but I know, I know the phrase, so maybe I do know the song. - That's the song. - I don't know, I just know that reframe. ♪ You gotta be cruel to be kind ♪ ♪ In the blah, blah, blah ♪ ♪ Cruel to be kind ♪ ♪ Blah, blah, blah, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee, dee ♪ - All righty then. (laughing) - Because you know the original lyrics had the doo doo doo doo part. - I'm sure. (laughing) ♪ Blah, blah, blah, dee, dee, dee, dee ♪ - Yeah, exactly. (laughing) - But I am sure anybody was familiar with the song, caught exactly what you were describing there. (laughing) - And did you see there was an egg hidden in the bookshelf too? - I did, huh? - Yeah. - Fuck, excuse my language. (laughing) How did that get there? - Yeah, those eggs are just everywhere, it appears. - The amazing traveling eggs. - Nasty. - Yeah. - Evil, evil eggs. - You know, this teddy bear backpack, Cordelia was wearing. - Yeah. - Was so out of... And you know, I am not fashion watch girl, right? I don't pick up on the fashion much. It's gotta be pretty extreme. - Mm-hmm. - Like, come on! No, she's too old to be wearing it, to get her back. - Mm-hmm. Well, I think it's supposed to be a not so subtle reference to childhood responsibility of raising children kind of thing. So perhaps, but again, probably reading too much into that. - Okay. - But yeah, I mean, she would never be caught with that. Do you think she was already being controlled by her egg at that point? - This is a good question. I mean, it seemed like Buffy and Willow were on the exact same timeline, just sort of fatigue that first day, then hatching the next night. So Cordelia's would have to be on a faster track. - Yes. - But it's possible. - Maybe. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, I did, I thought it was kind of funny. - Yeah, when Cordelia comes in and she announces something's happening, and that's Mr. Whitman, or Mr. Whitman more, excuse me. - Is missing? - 'Cause you'm dead? - 'Cause you mean by whom? - Me? (laughing) - Yeah, well, she's absolutely right. (laughing) - He is missing, but he's not dead. - He's not dead, but he really should be found because strange things are afoot. (laughing) - What is the prize? - Strange things are afoot at Sunnydale Eye. - Yes, but yeah, and I thought she and Xander were really smooth as they leave to go find a closet to make out in. (laughing) Ah-ha, ah-ha. And Willow's like, "Is there any water?" - Do you notice the weirdness sometimes? (laughing) - Most definitely, Willow. - Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. - And then we're back to Angel and Buffy making out. - Mm-hmm, and this is where we have the kids' conversation, right? - Right, right. - And the Buffy just being like, "You're my future." - Yeah, yeah. There is something, is it in the book, the metaphor book that I've been quoting from? Yeah, so I'm gonna read this paragraph. This guy, this Mark Field guy in this collection of blog posts. Says, "Speaking of sex and irresponsibility, we see Zander and then parenthetical, Buffy's heart. And Cordelia, parenthetical, Buffy's shadow self, her shallow aspect, obsessed with sex in the biology class. Since in my view, it's all about Buffy. I see this as telling us in metaphor that Buffy's thinking about it too. And obviously, if she's thinking about sex, there's only one person she thinks about it with and that's Angel, and then he uses that line. Angel, when I look in the future, all I see is you, all I want is you. Interesting. - Interesting, now you said that Zander represents Buffy's heart. - Buffy's heart, yep. - And Cordelia represents what again? - Buffy's shallow aspects, her shadow self. - Oh, okay. - Okay. - Wow, that is an interesting interpretation. I assume that Willow must represent like her intelligent self, or... Wow, that is interesting. If everyone else in the cast is just sort of... - An aspect of Buffy? - Right, right. Well, then I wonder who, I wonder if it's just the friends that are supposed to be aspects of Buffy, because then what would Giles be? And I guess Angel is her sexual self, maybe, I guess. I don't know. Interesting. - Right, right. - Oh, I'm gonna have to think about that. - Yeah, yeah, me too. This is, I need some time to process that. - Cast as aspects of Buffy. Yeah, I wanna think about that some more. Maybe something for a discussion in our season round up. So, huh. - Do you have anything else from that scene with Buffy and Angel? - No. So then we have security guard. - Yeah, I thought he was carrying a night stick, but I think it was his mag light. - I think so too. I think so too. And the next thing I said is, oh God, not the Freddy Krueger boiler basement. We've been in this basement before. - Yes. - And I thought, I bet Mr. Whitmore's down there. - Good guess, good guess. As we find out he is, as he wants the security guard who with this bronze side of a pickaxe, it's like jeez. - And what's a pickaxe do it? I've got comments about when they later get all tooled up, but my trivia question is from this scene. - Oh, okay. - So when the security guard kind of sees something going on behind some boxes, he moved some boxes? - Yeah. - What was in the top box? It was labeled the box on top. - Wow. - A few moments later. - Hmm, I don't know. I didn't pay any attention to it. - Well, not an important plot point, but plastic plates. (laughing) - I was thinking in my head, should I pull a road runner reference out of there and go with an acne box? (laughing) - No, it was pretty boring. It was just plastic plates. - I had a trivia question, but I think I, how did I put it? (laughing) Oh, I'll have to go back and secure my notes. - Well, I've got circle it or something. - Yeah. - All right. - So, yeah. - Yep, Mr. Whitmore's down there. - Do we see the security guard again? Like back up in the head? - Okay. - Okay. - Yes, it definitely wasn't cool. - Yeah, he doesn't have a big part, but he gets controlled and is one of the drones as well. - Okay, okay. I was just calling him the Stepford people. (laughing) A drone is probably better. - I like Stepford people. I like them both. - Yeah, it was, I had to laugh at myself. You know, when we're, now I'm going up to Buffy's room when she's climbing back in the window. - Yes. - And I knew that damn egg was gonna hatch and that thing was gonna come flying out and I still jumped. - Oh God. I said, egg bird is giving himself away. Disgusting very alien-like, but I said, I would never sleep again. Where did that little bastard go? - Disgusting, it must be killed. Never sleep again. - I see a spider in my room when I'm going to bed. I have to capture that thing and throw it outside because I will not be able to sleep. (laughing) - Oh, I-- - I saw that, I would leave my apartment until-- - Permanently. - Yeah, yeah, I'd be like, no, no, no, no, no, no. - I mean, props, she got it, and that's excellent, but it's whole creeping around and under the bed and by the wall, props. I mean, it was a freaky, freaky scene and well done. - Very much so, very much so. And they even got in a little bit about is something gonna be under the bed? It's like, don't look under the bed. - Terrible, terrible. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was kind of like when I was watching Poltergeist. Every time I watch Poltergeist, have you seen it? - I have, it's been a long time, but I remember some pieces of it, like somebody peeling off their face. - Well, you know, towards the end, the clown doll that's in the kid's room disappears and the kid goes to look under the bed, I always yell at the TV. - Don't look under the bed, you can't. (laughs) - Oh gosh. - There were a bunch of-- - There were a bunch of it. - Their pool was like digging up a burial ground, right? - Yes, yeah. - Yeah, well that whole suburb was built on top of a cemetery. They moved, had stones and not the bodies. - Oh my gosh. - So, and that's the whole reason things go very badly. - Yeah, yeah. - But yeah, and then here I was like, you know, when Joyce comes in and sees-- - I guess spoilers for Poltergeist. - Oh yeah, sorry, if you've never seen Poltergeist. (laughs) - Oh, what, 40 year old Poltergeist? - Yeah, I'm like, if you haven't seen Poltergeist at this point, come on. (laughs) - Yeah. - I mean, that thing came out in the 70s. - I think so. I don't think I'm too far off about 40 years. It might be like-- - Oh, I think you're trying to laugh. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm kind of like, if you haven't seen Puffy yet, and that's still from the 90s. - Fair enough. - So, anyhow, but yeah, I was, this is when I really, really started to get mad at Joyce, oh gosh, and I knew Willow was already taken over, and do you know what I have written about this scene about Joyce? Joyce, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. (laughs) - I'm like, it's pretty darn extreme. - Yeah. - She's not, she hasn't done anything. - No. - At that point, that Joyce knows of, and I'm gonna ground you anyways. - No, just driving me nuts. - Mm-hmm. - And at this point, I'm like, oh, way to go Zander. Zander boiled his, so. - Mm-hmm. - Willow's in trouble, but Zander's okay. - Yeah, oh, I just hate when he heals it. - Oh! - Oh! - It's so disgusting. - I kudos to the prop department for that, by the way. It's just like, ugh, it gives me the heebie-jeebies. - And then nasty, the thing is on Willow's back, gross. - Mm-hmm. - Mm-hmm. - I guess that was right before the Zander attempting to eat the egg, but. - Yeah, yeah, I know I hate the whole thing. - Then when they're all gonna do their investigation, I was like, oh, geez, seriously? With two rogue eggs, Czech Cordelia's too late. - Yeah. - And then, out of a tool shed for a school. - Mm-hmm. - Yeah, yeah. You know, I thought it was, I'm sorry, I'm backing up just a little bit before the tool shed. Did you think that when they're in the lab, right, and it's Cordelia and Zander and Willow. - Yes. - And Willow's doing her monotog, monotog in a monotone, is what I was trying to say. - Got it. - She says something about-- - The old monotog. - Yeah, return to the mother Bizor. Zander doesn't really react. Does he, did I miss something? - I don't think so. - 'Cause it's like horrible. - I don't know. - I don't know. You know, when I had to look up, 'cause 'cause we hear about Bizor's and Harry Potter, but I had heard of that word before. It's a real medical condition, did you know that? - Oh, I definitely looked it up. I had heard about it as well, and I thought it was something gross, and I thought it also was connected to something kind of magical, you know? But yeah, that definitely a real medical condition, and often for someone with some mental issues who's chewing on too much hair or-- - Yeah, yeah. - You know, getting something going, but disgusting. And so it was an interesting choice to call this creature a Bizor when that is, I lacked, I did not find the connection to the actual Bizor object that this thing was called a Bizor, did you? - Well, I think, no, no, no, not specifically, but I mean, they did talk about one of the foreign body Bizor's can be parasitic worms, which is, I don't think the Bizor in this looks more like a frickin' brain. - Yes, but that, I did not, what's that? - It's a little Dr. Who-ish, but this episode is before the Dr. Who episode I'm thinking about, so it can't be referencing that. - Okay, but that is a type of Bizor. I looked up various types and I hadn't read the one about the parasitic worms, but that would be, I mean, these were clearly parasites, so that could be the connection right there. - Yeah, yeah. - I was like, I wish I would not have looked this up because there is a Bizor that's specific to persimmons, and I'm like, I don't ever wanna eat a persimmon again. (laughs) - It does, it's not something I eat very often. - No, I don't eat this. I don't think I have to worry about it, but it does make me not want to eat them at all. And the other thing about this scene I couldn't understand is like, how that whack on the head that Xander gets when Willow grabs that microscope, I'm like, how did that not kill him? - Oh, she says a freaking microscope. - Yeah, yeah, 'cause he's not a vampire slayer. - He's not, he's not. I mean, I mean, yes, you gotta worry about Buffy, but she heals pretty quickly. - Yes. - So anyways. I also wrote down something about those tools. I'm just like, step for kids, grab tools from somewhere and head to the basement. - Yeah. - Oh, I put step for kids in one teacher. - Yeah, and just tool after tool after tool. - Yeah. - And what they need to have a pickaxe at the school. - I don't know. - The whole, yes, right? - Gardeners might need it. - Sure, but pickaxe. - Sure, I do not know how any of those tools other than the pickaxe was making any sort of dent in that concrete floor. - Yeah, yeah. - But there you go. - Yeah. - And then go for it. - And go for it. - I was just gonna move on to the next scene that Giles was sus and sure enough, he's already been taken over. - Mm-hmm. - And we've got the parenting reflections from Joyce, which just feed into my irritation with her in this entire episode. - You're almost kind of happy when Joyce gets taken over. - Yeah, it's like, oh, good. Now she's gonna shut up about by. (laughing) - Yeah, yeah. If you're gonna be stuck in that 1950s parenting bullshit, you deserve to be taken over by the alien Bizor. (laughing) - Yeah, and of course, it was so obvious when they shove Buffy and Xander in that closet that there's gonna be eggs in there. - Yes. - And Buffy just-- - But they wake up and they wake up soon enough. - Yeah, and she just swashes them with the toolbox. - Perfect. And Xander, would he wakes up? He almost, I mean, he really spilled the Cordelia beans, but-- - He did. - He blamed it on being concussed. (laughing) - Well, I think Buffy was getting focused in Slayer mode. - Yes. - And it wasn't really paying close attention to what you were saying. Although I was a little bit irritated, right, when they go to the library. And they're like, you know, research? Oh, you mean, like, we gotta look at books? Come on, people, we've seen you doing research before. Please don't act like you don't know what the hell you're supposed to be doing. - Yeah, and I guess, thank goodness, Giles has already done it. - Yeah, just happened to leave it laying out for them to find-- (laughing) - Perfect. And poor Jonathan. - Oh, yeah, Jonathan just keeps kind of showing up and keeps being, I mean, we hear this curl, I mean, he just sounds like he's really in trouble. And then possessed. - Yep. You know, when Buffy and Xander are in the library, you know, and Xander's like, what does Mama want? Do we actually ever find out what Mama wants? - Don't, clearly, this procreation situation, she's getting her eggs harvested. - Right. - But beyond that, I mean, what's the end game here? Just take over absolutely everyone? - Yeah. - And maybe they feed her? I don't know, it was unclear. And where, you know, what's she doing under the school? What, oh, why did Mr. Whitmore have the eggs? - Yeah. - Yeah, well, you know, it was our magical eggs that can kind of show up anywhere it seems. So maybe he was just the first one to find one of the magical finds. - Or maybe she planted those eggs, you know, in the library. - Yeah, but still how did he first get taken off? - Case zero, right, right, exactly. Another unsatisfying thing about this episode, it's really not explained. - And it's really, it's not one of the favorite episodes. In fact, Rolling Stone, it's pretty low. - They rated it number 134. - Yeah, I'd put it way down there. - Yeah, yeah. - I mean, I think I even liked praying Mantis better than this one. (laughing) So that's the bar. - Yeah. I do, you know, Zander is always providing some comic relief. He tells Buffy to be careful as they enter the big hole. - Yeah. - And then he falls, how did he do this? - Yes, yes, that was perfect. - Oh, and here's my note. Zander, why even with those pants? - Of course it has a point about how you dress. - Yeah. - They were like pladdish, they were real golf looking. It was not a good choice. (laughing) - I didn't even notice the pants. - Yeah, but I do remember him falling. Yeah, pickaxes are commonly found in schools. Yeah, this is totally tracking. - Yes, like, well, axes are a big thing at Sunnydale. - Yes, yes, they are everywhere for fire safety. (laughing) - Oh, you know, the noise of that mama Bizor is totally disgusting. It's a props to the sound department 'cause it just made my spine crawl. I was like, "Yeah, and that eye opening." - Oh, yeah. Yeah, in the sound it makes when it pulls tector in. (screaming) - Oh, yeah, yeah. They did a good job with that. - They did, they did. I, again, in this blog 'cause I'm kind of jumping ahead. - Go ahead, we're almost there. - I thought this was really interesting. - Okay. - Because, you know, he's in his blog press, he is talking about, you know, the sex and the responsibility and all that stuff. And then he writes this. It's a bit more of a stretch, but I think it's also possible to see the Bizor as a metaphorical vagina dentata. - Oh, the vagina with teeth. - Yeah, yeah. And it's a mother figure, it lives in the school basement and it swallows tector whole. If I'm right about this, there's a message in the metaphor and we're about to see it. So let's kind of keep that in mind 'cause the minute I read that, I'm like, "Oh, I know what he's talking about." - Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. - Okay, okay. I'm making a mental note here. - Yeah. - Then Buffy jumps in and gets that Bizor taking care of. - Yes, yeah. Yeah, I kind of like the fight scene when Lyle has to start helping Buffy fight out while the stepford people. - Yeah, yeah, the enemies have a common enemy for a brief time there. - Yeah, and did you catch, you know, like both of Buffy's parent figures, Giles and Joyce, both try to be in her. Like Giles going on when the fight starts and then Joyce a little bit later on. - And speaking of beaming, Xander gives Cordelia quite a strike as well. - Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. I didn't, you know, when Buffy gets thrown into Mama Bizor and she eventually crawls out, I thought she would just be covered. That stuff, they should put more gunk on her, right? - Yes, she was, she was inked in black, right? The same kind of colors when they squished the eggs. But it's true. It looked like kind of a goopy, clearly she acts really in there deep. So yeah, she should have had more innards on her. - It should have been, she should have been dripping like Carrie. - Yeah, but you know what, this is still the same show where a guy got killed with a strike from a ice skate in the neck and felt a little bit of ice and there was not a bit of blood. - That's true, that's true. So I don't really have much else to say about that particular scene. - Nope, neither, that was what I had. - Mm-hmm, yeah, Buffy kills Mama Bizor and all the aliens drop off the peaches, drop right off and-- - Everybody saved. - And everybody believes that it was a gas leak that just, yeah. - Childs. - These gas things will happen. Well, sure, if you eat a lot of beans but not necessarily in school. (laughing) - Nicely played. - Oh. - Yep, everybody buys it. And another comment for me about Joyce is really getting old. I'm done with it. She's stuck in her room. I was like, and then I was like, oh, she's making out with Angel at the window, okay. - Yeah, yep, so I don't ever remember getting grounded. - No. - But I'm sure I did. I remember I was talking with my mom and my aunt's one time and I don't know what the conversation was about but I remember saying, oh, I was a great kid, you know, I never really got in trouble. My mother literally fell off her chair laughing. I'm like, what? - Oh my gosh. So I probably did get grounded and I just don't remember it. (laughing) - Oh, that's funny. (laughing) Yeah, so not one of my favorite episodes. - Yeah, yep. And so I really agree with Rolling Stone on this one. I thought it did definitely belong down low. - Yes. - Those some cool, I mean, yeah, I did get freaked out, you know, the alien nods were good. And so it had its moments but wasn't enough. - It's down there with me with the "Teachers Pet" episode. - Yeah. - But I did appreciate it a little bit more this time because I did pay attention to some of those bigger themes. - Yeah, yes. And I think there's more of that to be had in this one. I just was annoyed. I just was annoyed with too much. I couldn't get past it. (laughing) - I'm just gonna start referring to this episode 'cause the vagina dentata episode. - Okay. Okay. I'm sure everyone will know what you're talking about immediately. - I love that phrase that guy used. That's awesome. - Oh, yeah. So we're coming up. The next two will do together. - Okay, I'll be ready for it. - Yeah, so that will be episode 13 and 14. So Buffy turns 17. Oh, interesting. - Wonder if Spike and Dursil will make it to the party. - It's a two episode, I feel like it's likely. - We shall see, we shall see. All right. Well, I guess the only thing left to do is say bye. - Thanks for listening, everybody. (upbeat music) - Wallowing in the shallows is created and produced by the both of us, edited by Mo. The soundtrack for the Wallowing in the Shallows, Buffy the Vampire Slayer season two re-watch is Apache Rock instrumental by soundetelier. Available on gimindall.com. You can send us feedback at witsdlypod@gmail.com. That's W-I-T-S-T-V-P-O-D at gimall.com. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Subscribe. - And subscribe. - And subscribe. - Subscribe. - Hit that subscribe button.
