If you're looking to maximize your fundraising efforts, DonorBox's online donation platform is designed to help you reach your fundraising goals with ease. Discover the world of simplified, seamless fundraising at DonorBox.org. DonorBox, helping you help others. Welcome back to the Nonprofit Hub Podcast. I'm your host, Megan Spier, and along with me today is Sarah Glover, who's the Chief Strategy Officer for the Urban Impact Foundation. Sarah, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here with you because I feel like so often, and even in our content, operations, the operational side of running a non-profit gets overlooked and kind of pushed to the side for program, for volunteers, for fundraising. Even here on the program, we've talked a lot about fundraising marketing, not necessarily as much on the operations side, so I'm excited to have your point of view here today. Yeah, it's not the sexiest side of the ministry, but it's so important. But it's important. Got to make it run. Got to make it run. So if you've been listening to the podcast at all over the last season, you have likely heard me talk about some of my volunteer work, and it's with Urban Impact Foundation. Actually, Sarah is how I got connected to it in the first place. Yeah. For what? One million years ago. Forever ago at this point. But Sarah, talk to us a little bit about your background in non-profit and your role there at Urban Impact. Yeah, so I mean, I've been at Urban Impact 17, 18 years. Yeah. Makes me feel very old. But on quite the journey. Yes. On the roles. I came in as an administrative assistant. I always joke and tell people that I left a receptionist job out of college and actually had to take a pay cut to come from a receptionist role to an administrative assistant role at Urban Impact, you know? But I didn't feel like that was really the Lord was just clearly opening a door for me to go there. And really, it's been quite the journey. So went through administrative assistant over in the executive office and kind of what I didn't know at the time was an incredible blessing was really I was just shadowing the president of the organization for three years and just kind of hearing meetings and hearing thought like logic that went into decision making and I didn't know that I would stay there for so long. And so now it's really neat because I was in some of those meetings like I can share with staff now and leadership now like, oh, I know why that decision was made, but I wasn't even at the table. I just happened to be a fly on the wall for some of those meetings. So went through that, went to grad school and then moved over into the actual direct ministry and was hugely valuable to really understand both sides of the ministry, started running a program inside one of our local public schools, had a chance to expand that program. It's still running today, which is incredible. And so as well as other programs, but that was a really neat one to see take off inside the public school and then expanded into overseeing the education and our post high school planning and spent some time doing both of those. And then finally kind of settled back onto the other side of the ministry in operations. And so I was there for a few years and have just recently made a transition more into strategy and some of our capital campaign efforts. Got it. So yeah, you've definitely seen both sides through all of that to our point early, right? This is kind of the piece that gets often overlooked because operations can be kind of all encompassing. You've got HR, you've got finance, you've got building, you've got all of the pieces that make it run. So when you think about operations from a nonprofit perspective, what matters to you when you're coming into work that way? And I say that to say like, obviously all of our nonprofit work matters, right? Anybody who's a part of that team matters. But for you, how do you show up every day and again, maybe not the sexiest side, right? What do you bring to like, how do you get yourself into that mode and how do you continue to stay motivated in those kinds of pieces? Yeah. I mean, I think for me personally, I learned it when I was an administrative assistant because I would get somebody fully prepped to go preach a sermon at a church. I was in all of the, you know, just putting the slide deck together or researching translations, and then I would see somebody go up on stage, deliver an incredible message, lies me change, and you're like, oh my gosh, I had a part of that, right? Like, not, I didn't need to be up in front. I didn't need to get all the credit, but you could see how all that behind the scenes work really did produce an incredible life-changing product. And so taking that, kind of transferring that over from like in a larger scale for operations, the same concept, our board chair always says that we are just here to serve, like us over in the business side of things. We are just here to serve those who are doing direct ministry so that they can be as effective as possible. And truthfully, being on the program side, they're really good at direct ministry and maybe not the most organized and maybe, you know, the most financially savvy and those things. And so that's the money of Christ, right? Like they're really good at this and they're good at this from together. I love that. So here we sit, right, coming into the fall, 2025 is not far away, especially by the time this is airing, we're going to be knocking on its door. If organizations are planning for 2025 from an operational standpoint, what are some things, especially from your seat, where you look and say, "Hey, this is how an operational plan should look going into the new year." You know, you know, this is the busy season for a lot of our fundraising friends. We're focused on a whole different year-end goal, generally programs are going by this point. You know, the new school year has started, we're going, we're going. But from an operational standpoint, what are some things that people need to be considering now to make sure that the organization is effective in the new year? Yeah. I think there's a couple of things. One, and this is something Urban Impact does, and it doesn't have to be the same timeline for every group, but it's something that we've been doing for well over 15 years now. And has worked well enough that we continue to do it year after year, even after evaluating is is the best way to do it, but late spring, early summer, again, not the same timeline for everybody, but late spring, early summer, we do basically every person does an annual business plan for their area of the ministry, whether that's HR or whether that is running a basketball gym. Everybody does a whole reflection on what the last 12 months were, what worked, what didn't work, you know, kind of the metrics that you were aiming for, and did you reach them? Why or why not? But the whole organization does it at the same time. So then that gives a season, we do it through the summer. Again, timelines don't matter necessarily or specific to our ministry. It might be different to others, but then we do a whole season then through the summer of putting the budget, lining the budget up over with what the program staff are saying, you know, figuring out what HR practices or new regulations could affect hiring and maybe that limits the hiring or the opposite. And so that's been a huge thing for us to then come fall, everybody's working on the same page. And so I think that's coming into the fall, I think that's a really big piece, but like you're talking about with the new year, I think it's good for everybody to understand that new calendar year doesn't necessarily mean new year for everything. Lots of people have fiscal years of calendar year, lots of people's healthcare plans aren't on a calendar year, insurance coverage isn't always on account. And so keeping those things really mindful. So for operations, you know, it might be a new year for benefits in October and it might be a new fiscal year in March, you know, and so we kind of are celebrating the new year all year. I think that's important to remember too, for operations, there's lots of milestones for new years, if you will. Thanks, so along those lines, we have a lot of organizations represented in the nonprofit hub audience who are in positions where they are looking to grow. They got some big plans and they are looking to take themselves to the next level. It's very easy to think about like, okay, if I'm going to add program, I need staff to run it, I need the resources to run the program, it's easy to see those things. What we tend to forget about is what that looks like on the back end, right? So an organization is in a mode where they are growing and they are scaling. What are some things that they need to be able to keep in mind as they continue to do that? Or operationally, are there pieces that we need to make sure are not forgotten about in scale? Yeah. So, I mean, I'm going to state the obvious, right? But like I think something that nonprofits well intended often don't give enough credence to is that a lot of your donors, whether it's individuals or foundations or corporations, most of them are giving because they've made good financial choices. And so I think it's really important to make sure that you do have a good plan going into whatever your vision is. It's not just like chasing vision, it's having a vision or identifying a need that you're trying to meet in the community or whatever your ministry or nonprofit is and making a plan to do that because most donors are going to get more behind, you know, well-used dollars than, you know, we've got a great idea and we're going to chase it. Sometimes donors get excited with you, right? But the emotions drop pretty quickly when you can't deliver. And so we've seen that even it's been interesting even in, we don't do a lot of government funding and I don't want to, it's just a whole other probably a whole other podcast that I'm probably not the best suited for, but we do a little bit of some government funding for some of our facilities. And it's been interesting to hear even some of those agencies talk about how many nonprofits that they've committed funds to and then they end up not giving them to them because they just can't deliver what they said they were going to. And so I think that's just a really important part when you're talking about scaling. I don't think that's specifically what you're asking, but I think it is important to recognize all of the behind the scenes pieces that need to go into place to actually run a good large program. Yeah, growing or sorry, the last thing is I do think growing organically is great. It's just with intentionality. I think that's a good call out because we do get very excited, right? I have a new idea we're going to run and we're going to go to your point. That's part of the fundraising piece that folks forget. The donors who can give you the capital to do that are financially minded, right? They want to see the numbers, the budget, the breakdown and how that's going to happen instead of just the pie in the sky pipe dream that you're asking them to get behind. Yeah, I think that's a good call out even for our non operationally minded friends on the fundraising side. It's something that I do try to remind them of on the program side. And I think there's a tension of showing donors that you can be responsible with the money that they're entrusting to you, but also, and this is controversial, but also not letting necessarily the donors dictate your terms because you're in this realm for a reason. You're in the community. You're seeing what the need is firsthand. You're doing the research. And so you can't just let the donors be like, Oh, well, I really love this. So I'll fund this. And you're like, Oh, okay, we'll just go create this program. You know, no, this is the need you need to present a defined need and get people excited about that. And usually, you know, if it's a, if it's a clear need, people can get excited about that. Yeah. So maybe a week or two ago, I saw a cartoon on LinkedIn in one of the nonprofit groups that I'm a part of that somebody had come to the development officer and, you know, assuming it was some sort of like, an operations minded person who said, Hey, our HVAC system has gone out. Do you think you can find a $10,000 donor who's really passionate about air conditioning? Okay. Well, no, probably not. But it takes this idea that like, you can only do what donors are willing to fund instead of, here's the actual vision and here's how we're going to accomplish it. And if the air conditioner goes out, we have a plan for that. It's just a kind of a different approach to how we present that idea. Yeah. Well, and I think from a budgeting standpoint, that's, I mean, that's critical is being able to one have reserves for things that are unforeseen, but also if you own, especially if you own your facilities, being able to have a plan for when you anticipate life spans of mechanicals, even right, like you use, for example, to, yeah, you know, we're going to time out that, you know, we have, we have a few houses in the community that we have our staff, some of our staff live in to make sure that we've got staff throughout the neighborhood. And, you know, we got a whole schedule of when we anticipate, you know, the appliances to go out and the roof to go out so that you're not caught off guard as much as you can be within control of, of planning that out. So I want to piggyback off of that, because I think that that is maybe a little bit unique, like a unique offering that urban impact is focused on, and I know real estate does technically fall under your jurisdiction at this point. So talk about that investment and the operational choice that you all made to, to actually put down roots in the neighborhoods that you serve. What drove that? And, um, operationally, how has that had an impact on the organization? Yeah. I mean, it depends on your nonprofit, but for us, serving, trying to intentionally serve the people of the community, it was really important to our founders to pastor out in Tammy that, that the, the folks that are doing direct ministry are actually living in the community that they serve, right? We call it confrontational. And so what's been really unique over the last decade is that we are in a overall, I don't want to get into like census tracks here, but like by and large, you know, this area is known for having higher crime rates and being more distressed and under resourced and, you know, kind of all those things. And so, but it's close to downtown. It's close to the stadiums. It's on the bus lines, you know, all this kind of stuff. And now there's like cool spots down by the stadiums that weren't there before, you know, so all of a sudden there's like this piece of, it's actually really a cool location, but not necessarily a desirable neighborhood by other standards. And so over the last decade, we've seen kind of this gentrification movement throughout the North side, and especially in certain areas, but the whole point of doing the houses of purchasing homes in the community was because you have a lot of government subsidized homes. And then you have a lot of investors or people from, especially like the West Coast, we found who are buying homes just because they want to, they want to invest in real estate personally as well. And it's just, it's, they can get so much more bang for their buck over here. So we've got kind of like these investors that want to, you know, flip houses and then you've got people who just want to make personal real estate investments when our staff is going to purchase homes and they're not making corporate competitive wages, they're, you know, they're getting outbid. And so, so we started seeing that and began to purchase some homes, and then we improved those homes ourselves and then started housing our staff at a below market rent so that they could have affordable housing within the community. And so they weren't then always butting up against, you know, investors and things like that. Elevate your fundraising strategy effortlessly with DonorBox, the online fundraising platform that streamlines your operations, amplifies donations, and delivers a user-friendly experience for your supporters. Own captivating donation forms, accept digital wallet payments, seamlessly monitor donations, and automate receipt generation. Joining is a breeze with no setup or monthly fees. From customizable donation forms and four times faster ultra-swift checkout to seamless in-person giving with DonorBox Live kiosk, DonorBox makes giving simple and fast for your donors. And donorbox.org and unlock your full fundraising potential today. I think from an operations standpoint, one of the things that I have, one of the reasons I love Urban Impact and how it has thought about that process, right, is that your frontline staff is out there, they're caring for the community, they're making a difference, changing kids' lives, but part of operations has to be caring well for your people, too. Because for those frontline workers to be out there and doing it, they can't be on their own on the back end, especially in non-profits where operations get overlooked, right? We might have somebody who dabbles in HR, right, but generally, and I think that leads to so much burnout in the industry where folks are just tired because they're giving and giving and giving without having any sort of like pour back into them. So I love the model of if we're going to have these folks and ask them to be in the neighborhood and ask them to be a part of it, we have to be able to provide for that and care well for them. Yeah. Yeah. Operationally, I think that's a really solid choice. But are there other ways that you operationally would say, like, "Hey, these are some things that are maybe even not necessarily buying them houses, but are there other ways that we can intentionally care for folks to help eliminate some of that burnout on the back end?" Yeah. I was just in a conversation about this earlier today. I think something that is unique to urban impact, at least from corporate standards for sure, is we have 19 holidays a year that our staff can have. That's not their vacation or personal days or anything like that, so especially like Christmas, I don't know the exact number, but they just get like five to seven maybe days off every year that they don't have to use their personal time for. And so we do want to make sure, I always say urban impact, as I've became a mom, urban impact has been incredible about being flexible with me. So I always say, we value family so much in our community, and I think it's really important that you mirror that back to your staff too. You're not just valuing everybody else, but not your own staff. And so they've continued to honor me in that role and let me keep that a priority while also continuing in the role here. And so we have all these extra holidays, and if program for some staff is running over those set holidays, they're allowed to identify separate days and make those up. They don't just lose those days. So they already have a decent amount of time, for my opinion, I'll say, time that they can take off and get rest and get reprieve, and then also just some flexibility. I always tell people, urban impact will be as flexible with you as you are with them. So please don't come, I used to say this in my interviews, that's probably the reason I don't interview people anymore. But I used to tell people, I'd say, listen, please don't come and tell me that you're at 41 hours, that's just not this kind of job. And if that's what you want, that's okay, but that's not what we're here for. Like, we are here to invest and to pour into this community. And so if you're counting the hours, and this probably isn't a good fit for you. However, on the flip side, if you have a doctor's appointment at two o'clock on a Wednesday, I really don't need to know that either, right? Like go ahead and go to your doctor, you know, and maybe that's more common now and outside world. I don't know, I've been so, I've been so exalted urban impact, but I just think there's this given take. And so as long as you remain committed, urban impact continues to support. And then the last thing I'll say is, particularly for those who are on the front lines, urban impact has reserves set aside for scholarships. So if something happens unexpectedly to someone's car or their home, they can apply for a scholarship. And then there's not humongous scholarships, right? But something to help them, you know, if they're like, I don't have to ask for this, repair right now. And I still have to drive my car, you know, right. So there's those kinds of things set aside for them as well. I love that. Yeah, I think that's part of the thing that maybe people don't often think about on the operational side is carrying well for staff, so critical, especially for folks who are just pouring and giving and doing all of that frontline work. Yep. Important. Yeah. And I always say, as long as staff is showing that they're giving, but it makes it easy to give back. Right? People always want to give to people who are giving or if they don't, maybe they're in the wrong field of work. So one more question before we can wrap up, when we talk about orgs that are looking to scale, one of the things that we see a lot of is organizations that are in leadership transitions as part of that, right? And so, you know, organizations like Urban Impact, right, who have a really charismatic front and center founder can sometimes get blindsided when they're like, okay, I'm done. You know, I'm retiring or whatever. Talk to me a little bit about some of the process that you guys have had, as obviously, the ministry has scaled tenfold, maybe more than that in the last 30 years. But talk to me about kind of the operational planning that helps you scale for down the line as well. What are some things that people need to keep in mind as they continue to look at that growth trajectory? Yeah. I think there's a couple of things. I think there's retaining, retaining staff that is really wanting to stay. And so sometimes that means making space for them in leadership that maybe you didn't have identified, if that makes sense. Yeah. We have somebody right now who just made a transition who is, in my opinion, invaluable to the ministry and also in other leadership's opinion too. And so they were thinking about transitioning out because they just didn't see how they could make what they really, what they were feeling like they've grown into work within the scheme. And so we're like, okay, let's pause, let's look at this, let's figure this out because to lose that person, it's way more prudent on our end to create a position than to lose all of that history and that knowledge and that culture and that just leadership that just naturally happens, even without necessarily up in front of the whole group leading. So I think having that kind of flexibility and not being so rigid as to like, this is our hierarchy and this is what we do and you can move here and if this person stays here forever, well then there's really nowhere for you to go. Yeah. I think that's really critical and I've experienced the benefit of that because I've gone part time and said like, hey, use me if you can, but if you can, it's okay, I understand that this is all the hours I can give in this season. And so having that flexibility I think is huge. I think also in that when you start to hold that many key leaders, you know, Pastor Ed, our founder can, and he'll say this, he can, he can go away for a month and you know, sometimes you're like, really helpful if I could just ask him this question right now, but I know he's busy and he's not here. Yeah. The reality of it is is things can keep moving because you've got this many folks that are trained and that know the conversations, know what's going on and can speak to different things. It's really critical is making sure you've got a whole team of people around you because truthfully, usually a leader like who started the organization and then has stayed with it for such immense growth, you're not usually replacing that person with one person. Yeah. Even our board chair became like our acting CFO and we tease, he's still not officially gone, but it's like three people to replace him because he just, he grew the organization so much and had so much of that. And so I think it's important to have a team and not just think like, here's the leader and here's the successor and I've been around enough ministries and nonprofits and businesses now to see, you can have lots of succession plans, but there's so many variables and for my experience, it seldom goes as planned. You still have to make some kind of plan and be responsible, but you have to leave space for there to be more coverage than just one person. Yeah. Now, I think that's a good point so often, I think it's just a corporate mentality, right? Because I'm on the corporate side, it is just one to one, somebody leaves this role, you replace it and you just move forward, but especially when we're talking about building relationships with a community and having that long term relationship, not just a flash in the pan piece, when we can build into those leaders and raise them up and watch them continue to grow, that's really where scale comes naturally. It's almost more organic than just, hey, we're going to grow this year, right? There's that natural element to it that instead of just, it's a nice plan on paper, but it actually comes from your people moving the organization forward. And especially if you're working with people in less with like products, right? That relational piece and that longevity piece becomes just critical. Yeah. So, as we wrap up, if there was one piece of advice that you could give to somebody listening who might be in a director of operations or maybe HR finance or something to use your word from earlier in the interview on the less sexy side of life, right, when it comes to non-profit. Maybe I shouldn't have said that, sorry. I like it. I like it. If you're going to give them one piece of advice, right, as they kind of look to end this year well and help their organizations in 2025, what is that word of wisdom that you would pass along or that you wish someone would have told to you early on in your non-profit journey? I did not early on and I've emulated the model that was set before me, but it's just building a team around you and being okay with not being the person that knows everything in the room. So, I'm leading capital construction projects. This is not my background, right, and so I have to sometimes try to, you know, not look dumb in the meeting, of course, right, I need to have some competency in those areas, but it's okay for me to look over at our facilities manager and be like, "You know the boiler system way better than I do. What do you think?" Yeah. And so having a team of folks around you, I don't have a background in finance. So this is not my strong suit, but I can sit there and have a conversation and I can make maybe good judgment calls, but I think that's the most, to me, nobody has all the skills unless you're in a very narrow role. If you're in operations, it's usually broad, you're usually not going to be a master of all those things and so being okay and building up a team around you, whether that's volunteers or staff or a combination I think is critical. That's great. I love that. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. All of the wisdom and the history that you have brought to the role for some of our operations folks. And my guest today has been Sarah Glover, who's the Chief Strategy Officer at Urban Impact Foundation. Sarah, thanks for being here. We appreciate it and we will see you all next time on the Nonprofit Hub Podcast. We appreciate you, Meg. Thank you. of course. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Send us a text In the face of challenges like gentrification and burnout, how can nonprofits sustain a supportive culture? What role does strategic planning play in the success of a nonprofit organization? Journey with us as Meghan Speer explores this critical question with Sara Glover, the Chief Strategy Officer at Urban Impact Foundation. Sara's inspiring rise from administrative assistant to a strategic leadership role provides a rich backdrop for our discussion on the vital, often unnotic...
