(upbeat music) - Fan warning show sports at 590 the fan. It is a Friday, which means tomorrow is Hockey Night in Canada. And nothing more hockey night in Canada than Leafs habs with some stakes for the Leafs, okay? There's some stakes. - It doesn't matter. - It actually doesn't matter. But the stakes are not 'cause there's always stakes. - Okay. - The Leafs now-- - I think T-bone, if you will. - Yeah, I think top spot in the Atlantic, even like you're most squinting, like you can't squint enough now. The Bruins have put themselves out of range of the Leafs. I mean, them and the Panthers maybe have an outside chance of it being close down the stretch as four points separate those two. And especially considering the Panthers have the tiebreaker there, okay, that can be interesting. But now the Leafs 10 points back of the Bruins, even with two games in hand, I think it's a little too far afield for the Leafs. But six points back of the Panthers for second in the Atlantic, but only two points up on the lightning for that top wild card spot, which would at this point be the Bruins, but the Bruins are only one point back of the Rangers. Now the Rangers have a point in hand. Is that too complicated like on radio to explain that? - I have to be honest, I'm like, why are you saying so many words other than just letting me talk about the fact that the Leafs and habs are gonna play on Saturday night in Montreal? That's gonna be glorious. And I was actually spending the time while you were going through that, looking up what is the smallest cut of steak? 'Cause it's like, it's not a flank steak. Like there are big steaks to this game. A little filet, a little circular filet, if you will. - Okay, very pretty good. flank steak is delicious, very expensive. - Yeah, I know, it's very expensive. - It's like, oh, you've touched a cow in the last six years? I don't know, not a lot. - You know, I grew up eating a lot of pork chops. My wife doesn't like pork chops. - I don't like it either, but like if you dine on swine, it's actually much cheaper than beef. - I am not too completely derail it, but we're here and it's Friday. - It's Friday, it's fine. - No, you're right, it's fine. Go ahead, get a food sponsorship on this. It's like, I'm a big pork guy. Like I love bacon, I love big pork guy. - Yeah, I love doing like pork shoulder, turn it into some pulled pork. Like I love that, but a pork chop in and of itself, not for me. - Hey, you know what? Now that we're here. - Yeah. - I think this summer I'm in the market for a new grill slash potentially smoker. So I have, you are 40, so. - Well, so I have, but you already golf. It's like you have to pick. It's like the joke is it's like you can golf, you can care about your lawn, history or smoking meats. - Again, well, not again, but like no free ads here, but I've been looking at the smoker of it all. It's a long process, right? But there is a brand where you can, it's almost set it and forget it. Like there is, and it's like, it uses big brain. It's got like a computer in it essentially. Which is very, is it not cheap? Like that's an investment, but I do a lot of barbecuing. - I barbecued you around, I barbecued last night. - I just, is there something, and maybe somebody can get, maybe two nights ago. - Maybe, and so did I, but it was like hot dogs. I do hot dogs in hamburgers though. That's still, the next question I was gonna ask is like, I want the ability to do some smoking of like some brisket, but what if I wanna just like throw some hot dogs on? Like is there a thing that can give me the best of both worlds? - Probably. - Almost certainly for a lot of money, I'm sure. I got, thanks to my folks when I bought my place, they got me a nice new grill. - That's what happened to me too, except it was, so we got our house now, like almost a decade and a half ago. So that thinks she's time. - Yeah, I have to be honest. It's like, I am always intrigued by that stuff, but then I just, I know who I am, and I go, I don't want it to be that complicated. - It's not though, like do you know what I'm talking about? - I do know what you're talking about, but I still am like, I feel like-- - You put the pellets in? - It feels like a lot, pellets, I don't know, it's like cat food, I know. - It's just like pieces of wood. - I know at all. - And then you press a button, and then you tell the computer on your phone, like, hey, cook this real good and stuff. - It's a miracle that I don't still just use like charcoal on the ground or something with it. - That's more complicated, what are you talking about? - No, I know, I know it is, but it doesn't feel that way in my heart. Anyways, the leaves, good luck to you. - Oh yeah, so I was outlining all the points in their like smoke meat. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I was talking about steak and then. - You know, this is the real number that we talked about and that is-- - Try again, 'cause none of them you gave me interested me at all. - Okay, how about this? - Sure. - Two. - Mm, that's nice and easy one to digest. - At least according to money puck. - The second best odds of winning the Stanley Cup. - Yeah. - Like the side keep alerting you to this because all year long they have been jarringly high. Even when it's like-- - I don't remember being second though. - No, it's usually been like fourth. And again, this isn't a sports book thing where you go, well, leaves are a public team, you wanna juice the numbers. - This is just the formula. - The nerds have said, and again, you-- - Just passionate. - You ask me all the time, how do they calculate this? And I go, I don't know, there's a thing on the site. It's too long, I'll take their word for it. - I did some quick. - You did some quick. - Yeah, and I was like, that sounds legit. Sounds good. - I think the argument for that is that, and I mean, this argument would have been the case as well last year and proved exactly zero percent true, but it's like, don't let 'em, it's like the old Kevin Mallar before game four against the Yankees, no four. It's like, don't let 'em win one round. - Yeah. - 'Cause if they win, then they get the win in their set. And apparently that is absolutely not true. - 'Cause Matthew Goodchuk just cuts the sales. - Yeah, the formula wouldn't calculate for that. - No, no, that would be the public sentiment of why it would happen. But I think there's also something to the idea of, they're gonna have their own, like, the path in front of 'em, and yeah, I don't know, it makes no sense, 'cause all the good teams are right in their way. I don't know, it's funny the way it works, but I also think that, I do think the reason it's important to bring up, though, is because I think sometimes we get so bogged down on the negatives, and rightfully so. Like, there are flaws with this team, but I know they took care of business last night, but the Panthers got beat by the Habs two nights ago, and the Oilers got shut out by the stars. Like, there's no perfect teams in the NHL, so I think that is the reason why it's good to bring this up, not to say you or I agree with it, not to say you or I would have the leaves as our second cup favorite, if we were listing them all out right now. But I think it's important to bring up because, and every local market does this to a certain extent, where you just get so bogged down on, yeah, yeah, we know the positives. There's no point in talking about it. We know all that. Let's poke at the holes here, and I do think it does just kind of point to, yes, the Leafs have flaws, but so do all these other top elite teams. - Sure, sure, sure, sure. I think, yeah, the talent level is pretty flat, especially in the Eastern Conference there. Outside of the two teams that I guess are gonna make it as the third-place team in the Metro in the final wild card spot, I think actually the most jarring stat, it's not that they have the second best odds of winning the Stanley Cup, like them, the Rangers are first, the Stars are third, the Hurricanes are fourth, Canucks are fifth, but they're all kind of separated, not by a ton. The bigger, the more jarring stat is actually, they have a 62% chance of getting through the opening round, which is like 10% more than the lightning who have the best odds of the other Atlantic division teams, or the Bruins, or the Panthers who have an under 50% chance of getting to, that one's, and why did the Panthers only have a 37 and 1/2% chance of getting through the opening round? - I almost, and again, the answer's almost, 'cause I know it would be not a fun conversation, but I almost want someone to explain it to me, almost. - Well, 'cause that seems like the crux is like, well, the Leafs would obviously just beat the snot out of the Panthers, like what, according to who? - Not my eyes, not that it, and again, more history. - And again, not that it can't happen, I don't think anybody would go into that series then, there's zero chance, no way to lose it. - That's basically what they're telling you, that the Leafs have a 65% chance of winning a series against the Panthers. - I hate you, Moneypluck, how dare you? - All right. - Anyways, what's left to be decided for the Leafs in the final seven of the games? - So, in my opinion, it's really just two things. It's where does Bitch Barnard play when he comes back? - I mean, really? - Yeah. - There's maybe tomorrow he doesn't play with awesome athletes. There is a 0.000001% chance he doesn't play with Austin Matthews in game one of the posies. Like, that's happening, what are you talking about? - Well, I mean, if we're to believe that Keith loves that Domie in Burtuzzi line, why would he not at least try it out? This is the point of getting the play- - I'll give you odds. - Do you wanna make a bet here? - I'll give you odds, yeah. - You can have plus 500. - No, no, no. - No, I'm not. - That again, two different players away from Austin Matthews. - We're having two different conversations. It's like, what will happen? You are right. What should happen? What will be proven throughout the regular season? - But it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. 'Cause the numbers are jarring. Like the top line of Burtuzzi Matthews and Domie spend one of the best lines in hockey in their limited sample. - So this is like a way different conversation to plan on doing, but I think this is more interesting. In the guys of, if you're Sheldon Keith going out, firing your bullets the way you wanna fire them and coaching this team the way you wanna coach them and not caring about somebody's contract extension coming up or whose feelings are gonna be hurt, is this not exactly the move you would make to do that? Like we've talked about Sheldon Keith kind of emptying the chamber a little bit, coaching this team in a much different way. Would that not be the ultimate lever to pull? - A hundred percent. - And he's not ready to do it. - No. (laughing) - Okay. - And also it's not like, oh, well, you're really screwing the team up by putting, you know, Mitch Marner with Austin Matthews. - The best set up, man, but the best score. - Yeah, if you're gonna like just go by the Nerds stats, the Nerds stats would tell you that it's slightly worse defensively, what they're getting out of Bertuzzi Matthews and Domi, but like offensively it's unreal and the offense is way outweigh the defensive setbacks, but it's not a bad idea to put Mitch Marner back with Austin Matthews. - No, no, no, it's not a bad idea at all. It's just a matter of what is the absolute best optimization of your lineup. And I don't think we can unequivocally say it's not Matthews and Marner together. Like there's absolutely a case to be made. It's just putting them together is a pretty good version of the Leafs, but we've seen this and there's certainly a case to be made that the other way works as well. - I just, I can't say that, man. - No, no, you're, again, I just. - Do you agree with me? It's point zero, zero, zero, zero, zero, zero. So you wouldn't take the other side of that, Betty? - No, I would. - What would the odds have to be? Like plus a thousand? - Yeah, something like that. It would have to be, honestly, like I just, I don't see a world where he doesn't at least start it that way if he feels he needs to pull the lever or whatever. The other thing up in the air, and again, I don't really know how much this is, is who's the first D-sitting? That's the only other thing that's left to be decided here. - To me, like, if Timothy Lilligren only plays a game, two games even, I think it's gonna be very difficult for him to crack that opening, that opening game lineup. I really think it's tough, man. - Because we've seen him, like when he returns from these injuries, he doesn't look at his best. And maybe ultimately when push comes to shove, that will be the best six-man unit involving Timothy Lilligren. It just feels like this injury is such, and the discourse around it has been such that-- - Yeah. - Yeah, he's gonna be touching Go to play even a regular season game. - The problem with that is that unless you all of a sudden think you're only gonna need six defense men, do you feel better about putting him into the lineup when he is in theory even colder? Having sat even longer, say you need to make a change 'cause the first two games don't go the way you want. I don't know. I think it's much less an obvious thing. So here's the other way I was kind of lining this out. Here's a few assumptions I wanna make about the Leafs Game 1 lineup. And you tell me if I'm on base or off base. Based on the last couple of games, Ryan Reeves is in. - Yes. - Leafs Game 1 lineup. - 100%. - Can he do anything the rest of the way to change our minds? 'Cause it only took about two or three games, and he'd been trending in a better direction, but the last two or three games have been something completely different. It only took two or three games to change our minds one way. Can he fall off in such a way, or does he have the built-in excuse of, he got the mojo going, you just need him in playoff time, you don't need him for this sleepy stretch. - I don't think, so was Ryan Reeves like going back to the early season struggles, was Ryan Reeves like responsible-ish for what was happening? - Yeah. But mostly that wasn't anomaly, right? It was like Ryan Reeves literally would be like coming off the bench, step on the ice for five seconds, the puck would be in the back of the net. That was not, like Ryan Reeves was never as bad as the discourse would tell you. So yeah, I mean, I guess if he keeps rolling snake eyes for these final seven games, that's a possibility. But I think now that we've seen proof of concept with him being good, I think people are more willing to give him the benefit of the dough and be like, oh, well, he just got lucky again, or unlucky again. - Agreed, I'm with you there. - This one, I think, is I mostly am certain on, but I can be swayed one way or another. Connor Doer is so integral to the penalty kill that he must be in line up. - Yep. - Okay. - Has to. - So this is where it starts to complicate things because this feels insane, but Bobby McMahon, 'cause when I'm putting the lines together, if Yarn Hrock and Marner both come back, I don't have a spot to put him. And that's not through anything he has done at all. But I keep looking at it, and it basically comes down to where does Matthew Nye's slot in, and that should be Bobby McMahon's spot. So here's how I do the lines if you put Marner with Matthew. So you got, don't be Matthew's Marner, Bertuzzi, JT, and Neelander. - Okay. - And then I go Nye's, Holmberg, Yarn Hrock, Revo, Camp, Doer. - Okay. - Where are you putting McMahon? Like are you say, you can Nye's out to put McMahon in? I can hear that argument. I just think it kind of comes down to that. And we would all be shocked to have been having that conversation a month ago, that it'd be McMahon or Nye's for that last spot. Not Revo, not Doer, not even Camp. - Unless it's like Holmberg on the outside looking in, and it's going to be the center, that's the problem. - Unless you're like re-running the Domi up the middle as your third line's out of the thing. - Then you're going back to like the Nye's, Matthew's Mitch top line, which has been, yeah. - I don't think it's the worst idea if that's the way it goes down, that Matthew Nye's is on the outside looking in. - He is no sacred cow that absolutely must be in the lineup. I'd feel more comfortable with Bobby McMahon in the game one lineup over Matthew Nye's. - Yeah, I think I would as well. - Yeah, I mean, that's the decision I'd be making. - And then here was my last assumption. And again, maybe Timothy Lilligren's injury takes care of this in and of itself, but Joel Edmondson, having been traded for, will not be the first defenseman scratch. Like are we confident? - Oh yeah, if he's healthy he's playing. - And again, like to the PK of it all, I don't know, it's been good without him. But that's, I mean, that was maybe his number one utility. I mean, outside of being ginormous. - Yeah, but like that's- - Well, I mean, we're in crop tops. - A lot of utility actually, how dare you? - Mm-hmm, toggle Leafs later on the program. I wanna get back into the J's just one second. - Yeah, no, definitely. So I was just like doing like my fun little tweets from Rogers Center and here's the thing, there is no, you can't disparage what has happened to the Rogers Center over the last two years. It's been unequivocally amazing. I got Ballpark is a joy to watch a baseball game in. - Agreed. - There's just no discounting that. Like it's, did you go to the Ballpark three years ago? And did you go to it last year, okay? Night and day, it's great, great, great. But I'm just sending out these, I'm not talking about the team. - Oh no. - And it's just like flooded. I can't, like my phone won't stop getting notifications about people making like funny. I, so I tweeted, I got that new Ballpark smell, right? And took a, just a wide shot of the-- - You're so funny. - Oh yeah, like until that stink of the team runs it, like some variation of that joke. - It's a good one. - A million times. People are mad. - Yeah. - So on the one hand I get it, like the only team in Manchester to be no hit in one hit or the first seven games. - It's not, not good. - They're one game under 500. They've lost one series, right? They split a series at the drop against what we think is gonna be another good raised team. And the Astros were, you know, do for a win. They got swept in four games by the Yankees, who were six and one. And you took the middle game and again, at the end of the season might be one of the most thrilling victories of the year. Now they're two games, like they happened, I got it. Pitching's been okay. But yeah, look around baseball. There's some teams off to slow starts offensively. Is this to be expected, this level of toxicity? Like if the Blue Jays even lose this series of the Yankees, which again, would not be a nightmare scenario. And I guess it's the way it might happen. God forbid they get swept at Yankee Stadium this weekend. People will be excited to, again, home opener is always an excited crowd, but like the, you thought the vibes by Game 4 of that Rangers series in September were bad? - Yeah. - For the baseball team, it just, it feels like this fan base is as mad at this team as I can remember in recent vintage. They did make the playoffs last year. Again, it was a bad year. - Yeah. - And I guess it's the way you get there. Can you remember a moment in Blue Jays recent vintage where the fan base was ready to explode? Like I'd go back to maybe 2013 where there was so much excitement. But that was just more like, oh man, it wasn't like anger. - No. - And the team, like they were, of course, historically, 50 and 51, Josh Donaldson, get it done league. And they made the trades. But again, it was like, oh, it's just never gonna happen. It was like more resignation. I can't remember a season where people were ready to be as angry at this team as this year. - Yeah, if I'm gonna try to pinpoint the most recent time on the calendar, it was like this. I do go back to last September and it was the sweep with the O sweep in them. That was the ultimate in the deer of people being angry. But again, it's like that's all the same anger that's still gurgling. I think the reason why you're seeing it is because it's one thing to care about and watch a bad baseball team because the pitching is bad. And like, that's its own level of frustration. And don't worry, like, do you talk college? Be screaming about that until they're blue in the face too. But at least it's fun to see guys smash and you lose a game seven, five. You feel one type of way about it. But I really think there's a segment of people and they're not off base to feel this way. They're not necessarily right, but they're not off base to feel this way. They're sitting there going, "I am staring down the barrel of 150-some odd games where it's gonna be a grind to score." And look, that doesn't mean they can't be fun to watch. Like, burrios is dealing, you're loving it. Gosman's going, that's all well and good. And hey, if you get, I know that like, this is only a rumor, it doesn't actually happen. And it's like, Dalton Varshot gets on base and he starts running around. That can be a fun, exciting brand of baseball, but you don't want to live your life hoping your team can scratch out four runs every day or three runs every day. It's just no way. And I think that is why the angst is there. I mean, it's a million things. You throw in the expectations of this era versus what's been delivered and the expectations of that one guy, Vlady, and what's been delivered, I think it all adds up. But it is specifically, I think if this team would have been just as bad and it was just the inverse where they're raking every night and they couldn't get an out to save their life. Yeah, we'd be yelling and screaming about that, but I don't think it'd be the vitriol that you're seeing this year 'cause it's so much more of the same from last year. - Yeah, I think it's that. I think it's also the off season. Of course. - Of course. - People are so ready to be so excited. And I don't know if people are actively still thinking about the show "Hey, Oh, it's Hani" thing, but maybe it's part of it setting your expectations and then to pivot to like, "Okay, well, something else is gonna happen here." Like, clearly, right? They have to do something because we all watched that team struggle its way to 89 wins with no offense and they're losing some guys here. Like, there's clearly gonna be addition and none was made in everybody in the early days. Again, we can all be proven. Your baseball takes can seem so stupid, like in a matter of a week. - Stop. - Don't look so directly at me when you say that. - I think everybody has the same blue JSON right now, but yeah, that's the thing. Everybody had the same blue JSON in the off-season. It was like, "Okay, gotta add offense. Pitching staff's so good. This is the window, gotta be desperate here." And you went out and spent some money on Justin Turner and Isaiah Kiner-Folefa of all people and then ran back Kevin Kuremeyer. I think that plays into it as well, the off-season. - Yeah, on the flip side though, and look, if the guy you pivoted to was Juan Soto, then it's a very different conversation, but I don't know, what's gonna say, they made another Dalton Varshot trade, and not for him, but for a guy who's supposed to be, "Okay, this is the pivot. We're gonna bring in one or two more competent pieces." And guess what? If they have a year just a little less than what they're supposed to, 'cause this Mystery Player X I'm talking about or the one or two of them wouldn't be, they'd be maybe all-stars, but like, you know, you're Fringy all-stars. Not you're J-Rod all-stars, or you're like Acuna or Bryce Harper all-stars. And I do think there'd be some element of just putting it on those guys that they couldn't save the day either. So not to say, "Oh, the J's actually would be..." They're better off that they didn't go out, make additions. Of course, you would like to have seen it, but when we talk about the pressure, the Varshot specifically feels, how would that player, who was just the Shohei pivot, not have felt that as well? - Yeah, there were like mid-tier players, like Hainio Suarez and I don't know, like are the Mariners such rivals that they couldn't have traded with the Blue Jays? - Oh, definitely not. - Did the Blue Jays have the capital that the Diamondbacks gave up to acquire them in trade, but I mean, last thing, I don't want to break because I want to leave it in time for Grange on this incredible MLSE Keith Belly story that we're going to talk to him about next. I mean, you mentioned Juan Soto. And my take on the Juan Soto of it all and the Blue Jays never really feeling like they were in it with the Yankees to acquire him from the Padres was like, "Yeah, you gave up Michael King, a real guy." - Yeah. - And that's true. Like Michael King is a real guy, he's made a couple appearances for the Padres and I don't know if you've checked the, that one gone necessarily a lot while he, it's like a million walks in the two of it. He has a million strikeouts, but like a million walks. He hasn't been so great. But yeah, it is true. Like if Ricky Tiedemann was available, like the Blue Jays made Ricky Tiedemann available and we all know there's no guarantees with Ricky Tiedemann, look at Nate Pearson who you're like, how confident do you feel in Nate Pearson showing up in a baseball game in 2024? - No. - It's like, okay, it could be fine, but there's no guarantees there. And now he's a middle reliever in very low leverage. I mean, there was a way to make it work where at least you're in the conversation for Juan Soto, who's depending for your agent? And it's like one player doesn't an offense make, but I don't know. Juan Soto, it kind of feels like it does. - Yeah, but he's blocked. Fire shows and left fields so he couldn't do it. - But like, put Juan Soto in last year's lineup. - No, you're right. - The thing I keep going back to last year is like, put a 900 OPS Vlad in last year's lineup. It's just one guy. Tim's not winning 89 games, it might be 93. - Yep, having a completely different conversation about the postseason and, well, actually, probably not. - Yeah, maybe we'll ask Dan Shulman that question after eight o'clock. But coming up next, Michael Grange and Elliot Friedman is a co-written story. Both guys collaborating on really interesting-- - First question, sportsnet.ca. - Alternating sentences, paragraphs is like a group project. - I don't know how that works. - I think it's a little different, probably. - Yeah, Sharon notes, I think, using sources. But yeah, really interesting story about the future of MLSE and Keith Pelley officially taking over as CEO and president this week. Grange joins us next. The fan morning show continues. Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning, sportsnet 590, the fan. Unrivaled insight, analysis, and opinions on all things Blue Jays. Blair and Barker. Be sure to subscribe and download the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. (upbeat music) - Fan morning show, sportsnet 590, the fan, Ben Ennis, Brent Gunning. Sometimes I feel like, you know, I've got to figure it out, like I'm a real pro. Like I've been in this game for 20 years now. - I'll get there one day to feel in that way occasionally. - Well, and then I, sometimes, you know, we'll read a story co-authored by Michael Grange and Elliot Friedman, and I'm like, oh, right. Like, I'm not, like, I'm not really that smart. - You did get a background that some people think Varshow not so good though, so you're almost there. - Like, I'm not, I'm not that legit. Let's talk to the very legit Michael Grange, who joins us online right now. How's it going, Michael? - It's going good, guys. How are you guys? How are you both doing? - Doing very well. So this is a very all-encompassing story. It's a great one. Lots of juicy details with MLSE ownership and teams in Flux. Keith Pelly will have hands full in new role. He took over this week. Let's just start with this. Why do you think it was Keith Pelly brought in to MLSE? - I mean, I think his background speaks to why, in that he's a guy who, when you look at the ownership group, has touched each of them in a meaningful way. In a sense of, you know, he started his career notably at TSN. And that's of course owned by Bell. He was working in Canada before he left the work and the European PGA tour, run the European PGA tour at Rogers, as we know. And in the interim there, works for both companies as part of the Olympic broadcast consortium leading up to Vancouver Games in 2010. He also has a background in, you know, in the CFL as the Argonauts president. And so, you know, let Larry Tanabom is one of the owners there. So, you know, just a guy who's very, very, very well known in the Toronto sports landscape. But, you know, it's kind of, you know, in addition to his abilities is kind of someone who would be looked at from various parts of his ownership group as someone that they could, you know, they could see themselves working with because they've had a history with him. - Yeah, I mean, it's a massive departure in terms of the last person who is in this role. And I'm not talking about the interim person, but Michael Friesdale, who, I mean, if you saw him, well, he was in that role, good job by you, Grange, 'cause I don't think many of us did. Pelly, just a much more kind of forward-facing person. We now also see the, you know, I don't want to overstate it, but the, I don't know, power struggle or, you know, what is happening at the MLSE level with Petty and Tanabom kind of selling shares and moving on. How do you think, how do you think Pelly, you know, kind of works his way through the kind of changes that are happening at the upper tier kind of board level with MLSE, with the sale to Olmurs and everything that's happened there. And just the loss to a certain element of Tanabom and what he's meant to that board. And, you know, I don't mean loss now, but in the piece you're mentioning possibly eventually. - Yeah, so just for people who haven't had to read it, I mean, what the piece kind of gets into is that in the summer of 2026, the two majority owners, Bell and Rogers have an option to buy out the remaining shares that Larry Tanabom has and are pretty much widely expected to do so. And, you know, and I think what's interesting is, there's two interesting things that are interesting elements to that is how is that going to affect, I'd say more particularly the Raptors just because, you know, we saw how the kind of the contract negotiations with the side jury went and, you know, there's been other reports and confirmed here, you know, there was a lot of tension around that and particularly as it relates to the Rogers side and, you know, the level of compensation and things like that. You know, so, and I think Larry Tanabom as a minority owner has been a minority shareholder has been very closely aligned with a side jury through his whole time here. And so if Larry's on the way out and then the size contract I think is up in 2026 as well, you know, I kind of suggest that there could be some changes coming, I think on the basketball side and I think on the hockey side too. And I think with someone as, you know, forward facing is I think Keith Pelley will be ultimately, you know, it could signal change in how team presidents are viewed within the organization, what role they play. So there could be some structural changes there as well. I think the reporting structures are changed already. And I, but I think the big one is who's going to end up owning this plus this whole ball of wax ultimately because it seems, you know, the one thing that you had going with the three tiered ownership structure, you know, Bell and Rogers in some ways, their interests are very aligned, right? Like they are kind of owning the property roughly for the same reasons. But then with a third owner in place in Larry Tanabom, you were able to kind of arrive at decisions, you know? And I think what's going to be interesting, you know, if it does end up being a 50/50 split is if two rival companies and how is anything going to get done. And I think one thing that you look at in there is, you know, one of those companies in Rogers has, I would say a deeper investment in sports because they do own the Blue Jays and you just wonder if there could ultimately be a situation where, you know, one of these party zones, the whole thing outright. - I mean, the most complicated thing I've talked to people about with this potential, yeah, this thing coming to a head here with the departure of Larry Tanabom is, if in fact it was, you know, Edward Rogers making a play for the whole thing, like how would that, like there is still, you know, some Bell media properties who need to put some sports on their outlets? Like, how does that work? Like, have you talked to anybody with some idea of like in 2026, say it is somebody making a play for the whole thing? It's hard to imagine either TSN or Sportsnet deciding to take a step back or, you know, being left in the cold here. How would that work? - Yeah, I mean, I can't say I've dug deeply into that side of it, but I think there's history, right? And, you know, the only so much can be shown on one outlet, right? And so, you know, even though Rogers has had NHL rights for the last, I guess it's coming up on 11 years, 10 years, whatever the number is, you know, there still has been NHL broadcasts on TSN. They just, you know, and we've seen it, I guess more, I mean, a classic example would be in the Olympics, whereas, you know, CBC is the right holder, but they kind of parcel out some of that product to TSN and Bell and Sportsnet, because there's just not the capacity on one main network to cover everything that's available. So I think it probably ends up being that where you're, you know, you kind of maybe you own the property, but you're kind of licensing it out as insurance interests, I guess would be probably how it works out. But, you know, there's going to be people with a lot more insight into that. And it'd be, I'm just kind of going on what we've seen in the past. - Yeah, and that does impact the average everyday Toronto sports fan, but I wonder like as far as the actual, you know, ins and outs of like, you know, basketball operations, hockey operations, what do you think the biggest impact to this Keith Pelly thing and the potential departure of Larry Tan and Baum has? - I think it's too full. I think on, you know, as it relates to Keith as a CEO, I think maybe refer back to Tim Leiwicki, would be the most recent example. Just somebody who was empowered, who was willing and wanting the role of being out front and kind of really shaping the direction of, not just the least some actors, but obviously TFC as well. And that was, you know, Leiwicki's time here was brief, but it was very impactful because, you know, he kind of came in like a hurricane and the emphasis was on creating winning content, so to speak, around all those three organizations. And it was as we, you know, I don't, I think it's completely reasonable to credit Tim Leiwicki with a lot of the success that has followed the last, for most of the last 10 years, let's say, on all three of those teams. I'm not saying Keith Belly is, you know, he's not a facsimile of Tim Leiwicki, but I think as it relates to what we've seen previously, he's, you know, a guy who's got a lot of vision, he's got a long track record of executing plans that require vision and being very forceful and determined about making things happen. So I think what we're going to see is more of a, kind of an approach where, you know, MLSE is driving the bus where I think more recently, it's been kind of, you know, the organizations in their own silos and kind of dependent on their own leadership structures. So, and then I think what's going to be interesting with, you know, presuming Hanuman does the part and like I'm not pretending I can guarantee any of that. And, you know, we certainly seen with what Larry's done recently, you know, starting his own sports venture fund and, you know, his ability to raise money and make some very, very shrewd investments over his career, you know, he's going to be a player. I think one way or the other in this marketplace. But, you know, if for example, he does end up departing from MLSE, what's going to be interesting is who is going to be the so-called face of that. And I think one role that Larry played or Mr. Panabon, Larry, I'll call him, played, you know, he's been the chairman of the company since it was founded in '98, is, you know, he was the human face of the organization when it was owned by banks and pension funds and more recently with, you know, being owned by a couple of massive telco companies, which, you know, like MLSE is an important business, but it's just a small business to those companies. You know, when they were negotiating a free agent or trying to, you know, when Kyle Lowry was a free agent, you know, Larry Panabon was part of the group that went to meet with Kyle Lowry when they were trying to land Steve Nash as a free agent. You know, Larry Panabon was involved in that. And, you know, and you look at, you know, very similarly, you know, it's when the Leafs have an important game or a big win, it's Larry Panabon will go and, you know, go through the dressing room and connect with the players. And he has them over to his house for their team celebrations, that kind of stuff. So that's, you know, how important is that? I don't know, but, I mean, that's going to be, you know, what's missing, one of the things that's missing if and one he does move on. - Sounds like if I was Keith Pelley, job one in my negotiation on top of, like, you know, getting the power structure I want is, I gotta have a really nice house so I can have all these guys. I think he's probably got that covered. You know, the interesting thing to me about all this is, you know, again, just keeping it kind of within the Toronto sports scene here, with Shapiro and Atkins, when they took over with the Blue Jays, obviously, there was a lot to be done in terms of the team, but Shapiro has very much styled himself, and I think smartly so is a guy who's like, yeah, I'm taking care of the baseball, but look at everything I'm doing to the park, like there's so many bigger jobs. I don't think a new, I don't think a new building is coming for MLSE, the two presidents are in place. And again, that's not to say that it's forever in Shanahan and New Jerry, but I think that's the kind of interesting thing for me to watch Pelly here, is that for a guy who, he's not here to just be a caretaker, he's here 'cause he wants to put an imprint on this one way or another, there doesn't seem to be the very obvious, very big, public job right away, like, again, just to use the Blue Jays example of, we're gonna fix the ballpark here. I don't know that that's gonna happen. Like, even something as simple as the statues, like, we've already done that. You welcome all the players home with the Leafs. I think that's the kind of interesting thing is that there isn't the very obvious, public facing, big job for him to do. It seems like much more, and again, they're all obviously incredibly important, but kind of more behind the scenes, which is just odd for a guy who, and it seems to be a big part of the appeal, is that he will be able to be that public facing guy. - Yeah, that's a great observation. I mean, these businesses are much, I would say, more mature than they were even a decade ago. Like, for a lot of things you mentioned, like, their operational foundation is kind of pretty well established. And, you know, on the laughter side, you've built your practice facility. You've, you know, I think the brand is, certainly this isn't been a great year for anyone's brand, but, you know, it's a much more established thing than it was a decade ago, or certainly before that. So, but, you know, we can't sit here and know the future. And, you know, and I think another thing to keep in mind is when you look at the sports industry as a whole, you know, it's still a growing thing. And it's, it's, there's still, you know, we're seeing NFL owners by UTL teams, you know, and by, and have also own an MLB team. Like, there's this kind of consolidation taking place at the highest levels of the industry. And, you know, who's to say that, you know, two, three years from now, we're not looking at, I think, a loaner for MLSE. And when you, let's just say, let's just pretend, it ends up being, you know, the Blue Jays under that roof as well. That's a business that's probably worth, in today's dollars, 10, 11, 12 billion US. And that, on paper, would make it certainly one of the top five most valuable sports businesses in the world. And, you know, that gives you a lot of leverage, a lot of power, everything that takes you pretty seriously. And who knows what MLSE ultimately becomes. But, you know, that's all, that's all unknown. And, but I think, you know, what we do know and what we're kind of talking about now is that change is coming. And doesn't mean it's coming tomorrow, but I think the next sort of 12, 18, 24 months are gonna be really fascinating. And if you look at the history of MLSE, and I was founded in the first place, back, you know, 25 years ago, you know, this is all for, right at the beginning of my career, you know, there are a lot of echoes where, you know, there's a lot of, you know, kind of, I don't wanna say inviting, but there's a lot of, you know, a lot of tension between a lot of powerful people. And, you know, much of that was resolved once MLSE was formed, it's been a smashing success by any measure, but nothing lasts forever. And I think we're heading into a new phase. - Yeah, this boy, nothing does last forever yet. It is funny how many twists and turns there have been for a relatively young org. You mentioned the new venture Kilmer Sports there. I don't have the name of the soccer executive in front of me, but you mentioned they poached a big time, kind of European soccer executive. And, you know, as, you know, excited as they may be about the WNBA bid. I agree with you. I don't think it's just for that. Could you, you know, I know a lot of people have spitballed this. I'm not the first person to bring this to the table, but could you see a world where there is a split between Bell and Rogers? And part of it is that, yeah, okay, the new venture, you get the second NHL team that's always been occasionally bandied about here. Like, could you see that being the thing that kind of, you know, for lack of a better term, greases the wheels for the split between the two, saying, okay, I'm losing out on MLSE, but I have this new venture and maybe as part of that as a second NHL team in Toronto. Obviously that's a massive thing, but that is, that's where my mind goes in terms of Kilmer Sports and then wanting to have, you know, potentially a foot in the market as well. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, I guess what I would say is a lot more things become possible, right? And you have more players in the space with means and motivation. And, you know, as long as MLSE was kind of one holistic entity, there was no one motivated to get another, let's say, another NHL team anywhere nearby, or maybe one day and another NBA team in Canada. Like, you know, I think that's a little more far-fetched, but if you end up in a situation where people have a lot of success in the sports industry or no longer all in the same, you know, pulling on the same rope, then yeah, maybe there is more of a push for that. I'm sure whoever owns the Leafs, I think has a lot of say as to, you know, what the marketplace around here looks according to the NHL bylaws, but, you know, you just never say never. Last one, I don't know if you broke this news, but it was the first time I'd seen the actual end date on Messiah Jiri's deal with MLSE and almost coincides exactly with the end date for Larry Tanenbaum's ownership stake in MLSE when he asked the sell to Bell and Rodgers. There's also that Brendan Shanahan's deals up in and around the same time. Is it just fair to say with the hiring of Keith Pelly, those guys are at least a little bit more nervous about their job security? - I don't know if nervous is the right word, but, you know, I think you just have to acknowledge that, that, yeah, I think when you've got a new boss and certainly on the basketball side, you know, if you look at what's happened since day one, a championship, which was kind of the afterglow in which the side was negotiating the last deal, you know, less things really turn around here quickly, which they might, but, you know, you wouldn't have quite the same negotiating power, I guess. But, so, yeah, I think it's not a coincidence that the timing of the side's deal is linked to what projects to be Larry Tanabong's exit. And, you know, I think it just makes, it just brings more uncertainty into the equation. - Well done, Grange, on the story, and well done finding something other than the Raptors to write about. - And I hope, I hope for each job. - Pulled his weight. Like, we've all been in group projects before, so you don't have to bury him if he didn't, but it just, I hope he did for you. (laughing) - Pretty just great to work with. - Grange, thanks, buddy. - Thank you. - There's Michael Grange. - It's his pleasure, it was our pleasure to read it. - Yeah, it was, you should all read it. Like, maybe it interests us and me specifically. - No, I don't, we're, this is always the problem when this topic comes up as guys like us, it's like, we think about this all day long. - Well, I mean, this directly impacts our livelihood, so yeah, it's like hard to like, he's like, when he's laying out the scenario, I'm like, oh whatever, I do just so and everything. I'm like, hmm, agreed. - Yeah. - Let's do that. So I try to separate that from like, that's what I asked him explicitly. How does the general Toronto sports fan, how are they impact how I'd be honest? - I'd be honest, I'd be honest. - But they're just proud of you for not asking about your stock price specifically. - I less said about that, the better. But yeah, there is a real, real world impact. Like, say what you will about Tim Leiwicki and his short tenure here, but that was holy cow. Everything changed. Keith Pelly doesn't have quite that string of success behind him, but I think MLSC, like it's not a business guy that they brought in here. Keith Pelly knows business, but like, the company makes money. Like, you don't need, you know, Richard Petty in there and no offense to Richard Petty, but like, yeah, he, great job, Richard in making MLSC a bunch of money. Kind of feels like, yeah, I could have maybe not had a, as, as you, maybe there's a couple of dollars I would have missed out on, but I got, yeah, feels like that one's a little easier than making the team's win, which it feels like Keith Pelly's brought in to do. Also to be the mediator between two rival companies who have this, I think that's more. Very weird agreement in owning the biggest sports media or sports entity in this country. - This guy was in a different position throughout all this, but this guy was just in the middle of the tug of war between like the Saudi blood fund and the PGA tour and Rory McElroy and Tiger Woods and everything. So if he was able to kind of, you know, corral those waters and deal with that, then a little board fighting at the corporate level is not something that's, that's going to bother him. I think that's very much what he's here to do. And also I think for, you know, Shanahan and to a lesser extent, you're, you're Jerry. You just see less and less of him. I do wonder how much it is to be a guy who is here to answer some questions. Like those guys now, it's not answering to a board. It's answering to him. And I do wonder if we, I don't think you're going to see like a state of the team address even yearly from Keith Belly, but I do wonder if that's part of it is to be the, and not meet shield by any means, but to be the face of this, to wear it a little more. And hey, wear the successes too. It's not just failures. - Yeah. When Larry, 10 and Mom departs, yeah, who's the human face of it? It'll, if Keith Belly's still here and like, things change really quickly, I do it. We don't have to say definitively that it'll be here, but it feels like he will be that. All right. Time now for the Waken Reich. Presented by sports interaction, your homegrown sports book, 19 plus bet responsibly. When you think of hockey night in Canada, you think of one thing. It's the Toronto Maple Leafs. It's the Montreal Canadiens coming your way on Saturday from Montreal. Maple Leafs, three game winning streak, stopped by the Tampa Bay Lightning as the Montreal Canadiens are playing out the string yet again, but obviously these two teams generally raise their game for these games and usually pretty entertaining affairs, Brent. - Yeah, Montreal, take them on the Moneyline. I wish it wasn't the case. I don't want to tell you this, but it's what always happens. Montreal plays like they are the greatest version of themselves, all those kids, all those guys on the team feel like they're eight feet tall. And yeah, it's just the way it always goes. It shouldn't be. The Leafs should take care of business, but they won't take Montreal on the Moneyline. - Man, I like the over in this game. - Man Austin Matthews hunting for 70 goals. Would he love to have that thing taken care of before the end of the season? So we're not having a conversation about him sitting on 68 or 69 goals in game number 81 or 82. Yeah, I like the over in this game. That was the Wakenrake presented by Sports Interaction, your homegrown Sportsbook 19 plus, bet responsibly when we come back. Blue Jays, Yankees, Yankee Stadium, where we find Dan Shulman next. The fan morning show continues. Ben Anis, Brent Gunning, Sportsnet 590, the fan.
