New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard breaks down the Giants' 20-17 international overtime loss to the Carolina Panthers in Munich, Germany, immediately after the final whistle @Bleav. SUBSCRIBE to the @PLonNFL YouTube page to get the latest Giants updates and news delivered directly to you, and to participate in regular LIVE Q&A chats with Pat. Purchase a Super Chat or Super Sticker to have your comments elevated to the top of the feed and have Pat answer your question FIRST! Watch the full video of this @Bleav podcast on Pat's YouTube Channel. Find Pat also on 'X' (@PLeonardNYDN), Instagram (@PLonNFL) & TikTok (@PLonNFL). Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is brought to you by MyBookie. It’s MyBookie’s 10th year anniversary, and they’re rolling out the red carpet for bettors, including Risk-Free Thursdays and weekly no-sweat bets all season long. Use the promo code 'PATSPICKS' here to get your first deposit of $50 or more matched 100% up to $1,000 plus a $10 casino chip. Make your Football season a winning season with MyBookie! Bet Anything, Anytime, Anywhere. Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard is also sponsored by @BoomChaga and @Estate98Coffee. BOOM Chaga Mushroom SuperDrink is a natural extract loaded with anti-inflammatory, immune-boosting antioxidants and heart-healthy compounds. Go to BoomChaga.com and use the code TALKINBALL25 to get a 25% discount on your first Subscribe and Save Order. Estate98 Coffee is a specialty coffee concentrate that's perfect when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. It takes less than 10 seconds to make a delicious Estate 98 iced or hot coffee, it’s great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkinball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order.
Talkin' Ball with Pat Leonard
Giants must fire Joe Schoen, Brian Daboll after Germany loss to Panthers
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All right, Giants fans, here we are live after the Giants loss internationally in Germany to the Carolina Panthers, the lowly Carolina Panthers, a team that came in allowing over 32 points per game. And previously, New Orleans head coach Dennis Allen was fired after losing to the Panthers. The Raiders fired their offensive coordinator and their whole offensive staff several weeks after losing to the Panthers. And now it's the Giants turn. Now it's the Giants turn, in my opinion, to fire their general manager and their head coach, Joe Shane and Brian Dable. The Giants need to blow this up. John Marra and Steve Tisch, of course, there was a vote of confidence from John Marra a few weeks ago in late October in Manhattan, saying that he doesn't anticipate any changes after the season, leaving the door open there. Saying there won't be changes during the year. But how could you not be making changes now? How could you be blaming this loss on just the quarterback on the previous general manager and the shortcomings of the roster? You inherited must have been tough for that NFL broadcast not to blame that overtime fumble on Daniel Jones. I felt like I was watching a four quarter propaganda tour where we were supposed to believe that everything that went wrong on the field for the Giants was Daniel Jones's fault. Listen, we've been over this before on this podcast on the talking ball live with fat Leonard post game podcast here on the Believe Network and on the YouTube channel. Thanks for being here, everybody. We've been over this before. Daniel Jones needs to be replaced. The Giants need to move on. They need a new quarterback. They knew they needed a new quarterback this year. All of that is true. It can also be true, however, that they have lost five straight. They can't stop the run. They don't manage games. Well, the roster isn't good enough. The injuries continue to be an annual problem. They left Jakob Johnson inactive for this game after using him to put a local face on their trip to Germany. Part of the reason was because they had injuries in practice to linebackers. They had to elevate a linebacker in Curtis Bolton, rather than Jakob Johnson. This is coming off a week where the general manager cut Nick McLeod because he wouldn't take a pay cut. A defensive starter, a special team starter, a key player and peace in their locker room and on their team. Players did not understand the motivations behind that, even though they understand it's a business. It felt a lot like those hard knocks conversations in relation to say Gwan Barkley. Even in this game, you see the disappointment fall. Unfortunately, on the young promising player, Tyrone Tracy's shoulders with a drop pass that leads to an interception and a fumble an overtime forced by Giants, former Giants defensive tackle. Aishan Robinson recovered there in Eddie Piniero knocks through the game-winning field goal for Carolinas of the Giants. Two and eight at the bi-week, my four and 13 preseason prediction for the Giants record. Still looking good, unfortunate, of course. I'm as tired of the losing as all of you guys are. Part of the reason I'm advocating for change and for firings coming off of this trip, off of this loss and off of this season is because I want to cover winning football. I want to see something moving in a positive direction too. And I will tell you when I think things are moving in a positive direction and that time is not now. So we're going to get to all of your questions. We're going to continue to talk ball here as always and uncover and unpack the reasons behind the Giants failures if you want to know more about my reasoning and rationale behind why they need to blow this up. And of course, we're going to discuss all the ins and outs of the Giants roster. Your questions, remember if you want to comment or question answered or addressed first, please purchase a super chat or a super sticker and that will elevate your comment or question to the top of the queue and the thread. And remember, here are our sponsors. My bookie, Boom Chaga, and a state 98 coffee. We have a reminder here, great from Patrick Evans, one of our loyal followers. He says, hit that sub and like button. Really appreciate that, Patrick, for you saying that. Remember, guys, when you're here, hit the like button while we are live. That adds really a healthy level of engagement to the community we're already building here. YouTube literally takes that engagement and sends out flares into the sky for Giants fans who aren't aware of what we're doing here yet and tells them that we are live here. I'm the New York Daily News NFL columnist and Giants Beatwriter. And of course, hosting the Talking Ball with Pat Leonard podcast on the Believe Network. These post game lives, we're doing them every week. And so we continue rolling on here as you, like I said, hit the like button while we are live. And then also subscribe if you're not already to the YouTube page. A lot more content coming, a lot of content already on that page. So first of all, we are sponsored by my bookie sports book, my bookie rolling out the red carpet for sports betters this year, including risk free Thursday bets. And of course, every week, check all of my social media profiles. I release Pat's picks every week we've been rolling. There have been nine full NFL weeks so far as we're talking here. I've only had two weeks below 500 in those nine weeks. We're making you money this football season with my bookie. If you're following along with my picks of the week and also my Giants prop bets, my Giants sprinkles usually hitting one or two, if not all, every week. So we're rolling on here. So here's the deal. Pat's picks is the promo code. 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And if you use the discount code talking ball 25 or access it through the QR code on your screen, you'll get 25% off your first subscribe and save order. Right now, that means a month's supply costs you only $30. Start feeling the difference today at boomchaga.com. And last but not least, brought to you by estate 98 coffee, especially coffee concentrate, perfect for when you want to make a quick cup of coffee and skip the lines. Takes me less than 10 seconds to make a delicious estate 98 iced or hot coffee. It's great as a mixer for espresso martinis and each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate98.com/talkingball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order. All right, we roll into the chat here. Barbara Carroll says so far at halftime it's going well if we're trying for a higher draft pick. Barbara made that comment at halftime when the Giants were down 10 to nothing. The Giants were out gained in the first quarter. Are you ready for this stat? So in the first quarter of this game, Carolina Panthers 157 yards on offense. Giants 16, the Giants were down 10 nothing at the half in part due to a red zone interception Daniel Jones that was tipped and intercepted. And then also a Graham Godot miss field goal and obviously true, but Hubbard with 93 rushing yards, I believe 93 rushing yards at halftime for the Carolina Panthers. And you're right, Barbara. It still stands here that this was a battle for the number one pick possibly in a lot of ways. The Giants and Panthers were two of 19 with two wins entering this week 10 of the NFL season. Now the Giants losing head to head in this game certainly helps to vault them up the draft board to get what you would believe would be their quarterback of the future if they're hunting that. We know they are. We know they're in that market. We know they are going to draft a quarterback. And we know that they were looking to draft a quarterback this past spring when they did not make a trade up and ultimately draft the Malik neighbors. Now though the question is do Joe Shane and Brian Dable deserve to be the GM and the head coach who make that pick and develop that player? Certainly there will be disagreements about that between myself, different reporters, different fans. I think a lot of people feel a lot of different ways about subjects like that. And obviously emotions running high. I'm sure with the fan base coming off of a loss like that where the Giants look like a complete mess early on. It looks like it's an obvious loss. They make a comeback at the end. Maybe a last stand by Daniel Jones there, but the fact of the matter is the Giants don't get it done. Always something that goes wrong and you can't just pin it on the quarterback. He's one of the problems. He's not the only problem. All right. Looks like we got a super chat in the queue. Let's jump right to that. Looks like it is Mark Sullivan. Mark Sullivan says a great loss on the road back to back to the Super Bowl. Mark Sullivan with some great tongue and cheek sarcasm there. Love it, Mark. Love that you're trying to keep a smile on your face during these dark times. This is the worst kind of loss. This is the worst kind of plane ride home. This is the worst kind of flight to have to be on. This is just not where you want to be if you're the Giants. And if you're an organization that I said this at the time and I'd say this now, John Marra, there was nothing else he could say at the moment that he said that he still was confident in the general manager and the coach. That was a time where at that point in the season, even though people like me knew that this was headed in the wrong direction and not turning around, from John Marra's perspective there, you're trying to reinvigorate the team. You're trying to show that confidence so that ultimately what your team does is responds to it, turns it around, and hopefully gets itself headed in the right direction. And you're saying to the GM and coach, hey, I'm still here behind you. Let's get it done. But five in a row that the Giants have dropped shut out in the first half of this game. You have an offensive head coach calling the place with the worst offense in the NFL. You have a Giants defense that can't stop the run. You have an offense and a team that scored 17 points on a Carolina Panthers team that was allowing 32 plus points per game coming in. This is just not acceptable. Whatever way you want to sugarcoat it, I think the one thing that drives me nuts when you see these games and you listen to these broadcasts, and this goes back to last year with Wink Martindale, there are people working in high places for organizations selling a narrative that benefits people for different organizations and different teams, and watching and listening to this broadcast and hearing literally everything that went wrong be pinned on Daniel Jones. For sure, there were plenty of things that need to be pinned on him that Flee Flicker, even though I didn't like the call. Of course, Wyndale Robinson opened. You've got to get rid of the ball. The turnovers you don't want to see. But blaming that interception in the fourth quarter on Daniel Jones, countless plays where something went wrong in a couple of different places, and it's being pointed out that protection was good and the quarterback didn't get it done. I mean, really hard to understand how this can happen year in and year out, how it can be sold as one thing on these broadcasts, on these national broadcasts, and people just gobble it up. You know, I'm getting text from people listening to what the analysts are saying and just buying it hookline and sinker. Anybody who is a subscriber on this channel, who follows the Giants, who's passionate about the Giants and who wants the best for the Giants, knows that I have been telling you from the beginning what the reality is with this team. Positive and negative, right? Positive and negative. What's one positive today? You didn't hear Evan Neal's name a lot, right? You didn't hear his name a lot as far as past protection breaking down. That's a positive. Now, you need to build on that. Obviously, he's a number seven overall pick a few years ago, who was a train wreck prior, battled injuries, the team misdiagnosed an injury, finally gets him to line up, puts a little bit of a good foot forward here. Does he continue it after the buy? We'll see. But got to be honest about what you see on the field, right? We're not going to point out only the negative. We're not going to point out only the positive. We're going to point out what went wrong, what went right, and all the in-betweens. But enough of this just 100%, black and white, it's no one else's fault, but the quarterback, it's disgusting, it's water-carrying, and we don't do that here. That's the bottom line. All right, let's see. Hey, Mark, thanks for that super chat. Patrick says Daniel Jones is not a good quarterback. Daniel Jones did, though, put his best foot forward in that second half. He led that comeback, and then the fumble, the turnover in overtime, is the rookie running back. By the way, the Giants did pay Devin Singletary, a veteran. I believe what was it? Five and a half million a year in free agency. So, interesting asset allocation there, Saquon Barkley, an MVP candidate in Philadelphia. Just one of many things going on with this team. Patrick says there are too many open receivers. He is not seeing the field wide open receivers, he says. There were definitely two or three times during this game where the Giants, where a play did not work, and because Daniel Jones did not make the right read, did not let go of the ball, did not see the field, that's for sure. That said, there were plenty of other games or other plays and drives that didn't work out, and it wasn't on the quarterback. It's overstated at this point. I think we've passed the point where no one should be sitting here arguing that Daniel Jones is the Giants quarterback next year. That's not an argument. It's not going to happen. That's not what should happen. Yes, he makes some good plays, he takes some away, that's for sure. But plenty of things that the Giants did wrong in this game from drops to even Malik Neighbors. Again, how to catch today where he's below the sticks, where you're supposed to run around past the first down marker so you don't have to have a third in one or a second one. Like these are things that players need to do to help the quarterback. Drops, even in the, what was it, when the Giants launched that touchdown drive, make sure I get this game situation correct. How about in the third quarter where the Giants go 65 yards for a touchdown for Tyrone Tracy, 32 yards, and then the defense gives up an 80 yard touchdown drive, capped by a Chuba, Chuba Hubbard, one yard touchdown. How about the Giants defensive line? Zero sacks against the commanders last week, one sack against the Carolina Panthers this week. One sack in two games from the Giants defensive line. All right, looks like we got another super chat here. Chronicles in the house. What's up, Chronicles. Chronicles says this is on Daniel Jones is running back, carried him all day. He is not good enough. Can't make simple NFL throws. It's sad and embarrassing. Listen, if you want to pin this all on your quarterback, go right ahead. You run it back with this regime. Same old problems, same old stuff, just running out of people to blame, right? Last year it was, it was supposedly it was the defensive coordinators fault. This year it's the quarterback's fault. Yeah. Yeah, let me know. I mean, this is what I'm talking about Chronicles is to sit here and say Daniel Jones is not the answer is already something we've done. That's already true. We already know that this game was lost because of mistakes throughout the roster. They missed a field goal from a kicker who never misses in part because this guy was banged up all season because he got hurt in practice and then played in a game and heard it worse. That comes back and he's rusty and he misses a field goal. Daniel Jones's fault. I don't know. A drop in the fourth quarter. Daniel Jones's fault. A deep shot to Malik neighbors. Ball hits the turf before the receiver can get to it. That's Daniel Jones's fault. The refs tried to call that complete. Obviously it was tough to keep complete. All right. Jim says, Pat, please discuss the problems with two light edge rushers on the defensive line, which leads them very susceptible to a good running game. Is this the reason we are near last in run defense? What can we do? I think their interior is not good enough either. If you noticed, a lot of the successful runs today for the Carolina Panthers, especially during a period of the game where the Giants were really struggling to just get them off the field and get the ball back for their offense. A lot of those runs were right down the gut, right up the gut, right up the middle. There was a time where Dexter Lawrence came off the field and obviously without him out there, the run game, especially is going to suffer. You remember though, even when Leonard Williams was here in previous years, he and Dexter Lawrence, the line was still not as good as you wanted it to be and stopping the run. But their run defense has gotten worse under Shane Bowen. It's really scary. It's upsetting. The edge rushers is a problem as far as the run defense as well. I mean, the edges with the corners and the edges, they're very susceptible to that. When they paid Brian Burns, who's an excellent player, all that money, in addition to drafting cave on Thibodeau and then you have a Z's, the one concern about paying Burns that money and having that much invested in those two guys is they're known more as pass rushers and that's more what you're paying for. But Brian Burns never made his bones on being an amazing run defender. Now, he has been a guy in the backfield blowing up some plays for the Giants. But overall, they're not invested in edge rushers and players who are elite runstoppers. They're just not invested in that. So, I think that the Giants defensive line, the plan, right? So we talked about going into the draft this past spring. One thing that the fans were curious about was why didn't the Giants draft a swing tackle? Why didn't they go defensive tackle? Now, obviously, the Giants had a lot of different holes to fill so they couldn't fill all of them. But one of the things they had to draft the tight end because the tight ends they've drafted haven't been good enough and they traded for Darren Waller who retired, right? Joe Shane also traded a second round pick that he could have used on a corner to acquire Brian Burns. Also, Gabe Brian Burns all that money, which he could have spread out on a different edge rushers and Saquon Barkley. So there's a lot of different dominoes that fell here and there. But interior defensive tackle helped. That was really an underrated need that the Giants had going into this draft and they didn't address it and they've really struggled on the interior. Like their defensive line, you know, a lot of the conversation publicly has been about Deontay Banks. And listen, his shortcomings and lack of effort, especially those are unacceptable and should be talked about. But, you know, a lot of this run defense problem is what is that the runs are bursting through the hole bursting through the middle, bursting up the gut and out to the second level. And then these runners are coming there with speed and two way goes. That's something actually Shane Bowen, the defensive coordinator mentioned. So everybody's accountable here. Everybody's accountable. All right, let's see. Chris Spires, thank you so much, Chris. Chris says, my problem with the Giants is our problem is ownership. They don't pick good coaches or general managers. That is a very big concern. You know, I think one thing that stood out during hard knocks was it was a little bit crazy to see some of the ways that Joe Shane reacted in some of those conversations and you know, some of the rationale behind some of the decisions they made in the move that they made. And then thinking to yourself, okay, they went through a three hour interview here and then they made these hires for this regime. It just seemed, you know, I think Joe Shane is probably a good scout. But as far as the general manager piece goes, like listening to Chris Rosetti give him great advice and him not heeded or take it and incorporate it, you know, those types of things just made you question what those interviews went, how those interviews went, right, with Giants ownership. I think, I think if the Giants are honest, you know, this is something I have pointed out ever since I took over on the Giants beat. And ever since I became the New York Daily News NFL columnist is one thing. And listen, the Giants aren't the only team. Okay, believe me. Like, when we talk about being bad self evaluators, the Dallas Cowboys this year are a great example of a team that is very bad at self evaluating right now. Like the Dallas Cowboys completely have misjudged who they are and not evaluated themselves properly, right? Because how can you evaluate yourself properly and go into the season with the roster that the Dallas Cowboys have? You know, they have some promising pieces, but you look at their inability and lack of desire to address the running back position, the offensive line slipping, the depth slipping out at the door. You know, the fact that essentially they just decided, hey, we're good enough already. Why do we got to fix this? So the Cowboys, great example, bad self evaluators. You know, who else would be? I was a victim of kind of overestimating what the Saints could do this year because I didn't trust that division. You know, I didn't think I thought maybe the Bucks would take a step back. I thought the Falcons were kind of frauds and obviously the Panthers were there. So I thought, ah, you know, the Saints are, Saints are talented enough. They got enough like good high level players to keep positions. I'll figure it out. But that's another team that looked at themselves. They pushed money around trying to constantly remain competitive and completely misevaluated themselves, right? Like I said, I misevaluated them too. But the Giants just have a really hard time, ownership on down, evaluating who and what they are. Even the rationale behind, and listen, they're not the only ones either. Like the Cleveland Browns, when they go in the tank, it's like they cite things that went right with whether it's Stafansky's operation, whether it's with ownership and GM and drafting and asset allocation. It's like when things start to get really bad and you're three or four years down the road, what are we referring to something that happened four years ago for it, right? Like Brian Dable got coach of the year as his first year rookie head coach with the Giants and the Giants exceeded expectations in that year. There were a lot of coaches who could have won at that year. Dable easily could have, even though he had a good season, not won it. Tomlin, Shanahan, Sirioni all were the candidates that year. Dable did a good job that year. They were 9-7 and 1. A large part was because the defense also was excellent under Wink Martindale. They beat Lamar Jackson by forcing two turnovers of Lamar on short fields and giving the offense short fields. I think that absent Martindale, it's been a huge glaring and obvious regression from the entire team. The defense's ability to complement anything that the offense does. They don't force takeaways or turnovers. They forced 31 last year tied for the NFL lead with the Baltimore Ravens. This year, I believe they're stuck at 7, I think, with one interception. I guess it's 8 now that they forced one today from Chiba Hubbard. That's 8 on the year, which is just far from good enough. The Giants are in a position where from a roster standpoint to a personnel standpoint and even a staff standpoint, you have to remember too, when I'm talking about that firings are warranted here, remember that most of this coaching staff overturned already from last year. A lot of people didn't want to work here anymore. Some people got fired. Some people decided to leave on their own. It was just a mess. Here's one thing I will say. Whatever happens happens with the Giants as far as these guys' jobs and how they proceed, we'll see. No one has control of that other than the Giants themselves, ownership, etc. But Steve Tisch has been very quiet and the Tisch family has been very quiet. I outlined this in my preview of this game that I think if the Giants lost this game, I think we will hear from Steve Tisch. I think we have to hear from Steve Tisch. I think that what I've seen since I've covered the Giants starting in 2016, and if you're just joining us, welcome, talking ball with Pat Leonard, live post game of the Giants 2017 overtime loss of Carolina Panthers. I see all the Super Chats rolling in. I'm going to jump right to all of your questions next. But remember, John Marrow, he was being honest when he said he wants to be more patient with this regime than previous ones. That was an honest statement, and he's been criticized in the past by me as well as others for rushing to judgment. But first of all, there's a difference between firing someone after year two and during or after year three. That's a full year. That's the difference. And then the other thing is you don't stick with something that doesn't work. You don't stick with something that is taking you backwards. You don't stay with something that is burying you deeper into a hole. And you certainly don't stick with an operation where people feel wronged by the way they are treated as I've outlined with some of these player issues and situations. So I think it's a bad look, but I think that the precedent that has been set is, okay, for example, when when Dave Gettleman and Pat Shermer were on their way out, Tisch wanted to fire everybody. Marrow felt it was unfair considering Gettleman's health situation, having battled cancer, felt like he deserved another year because he had been in and out in one of the seasons battling that and trying to get himself healthy. So he stuck with with Gettleman into the judge regime and Steve Tisch compromised there. So after the judge regime went south in that last year, you had the press conference and all that, Tisch said, no, seen enough, blow it up. And then even after the Giants won that playoff game in Minnesota, if you remember, Marrow was quoted as telling a reporter we're back in the post game locker room, but Tisch had an interesting statement that he released. Even after all of that success, Tisch's statement said he was proud of the players, coaches and staff and that Joe and Dabel have laid the foundation for continued success. But he added, we all agree there is much work left to be done. And that really stuck out because it was the co-owner of the Giants in their highest moment since they could remember, since making the playoffs in 2016 with Romeo Aquara laying on top of Dak Prescott and MetLife Stadium in December. It was Tisch saying, we're happy, but we know we got a long way to go. And it was tempered enthusiasm. And I thought it was the right button and tone to press. And I think it reflects that we should all be reminded that this is a 50/50 split operation. The Tisch family and the Marrow family each own 50% of this place. And we've only heard from John Marrow recently in recent years. And obviously, there are personal reasons for that with Steve Tisch and the family. And we've all been very sensitive to that, obviously. But I think that understanding the precedent of this dynamic, I think it's always important to understand that John Marrow and the Marrow family are only a half of the equation when it comes to making these decisions. And just so we're clear, the Giants since Tisch released that statement, the Giants are 8, 20 and 0. Since their 6-in-1 start to 2022, they are 11, 25 and 1. And they are 4, 12 and 1 against the NFC East, including 1 and 10 against the Cowboys and the Eagles. Just got a text from somebody that said that that was a disgusting display of football from somebody that I just need a holiday gift that will keep her sparkling all year long. Blue Nile, the original online jeweler has experts on hand 24/7 who can help you find the perfect piece. Beyond that, Blue Nile makes the gifting experience easier than ever with guaranteed free shipping and returns as well as a wide assortment of jewelry of the highest quality at the best price. Right now, get 30% off jewelry at bluenile.com. That's bluenile.com for 30% off bluenile.com. All right, let me get to your super chats because I see them rolling in and I really appreciate your guys' support. Mark says, "I bet the under 7 and predicted 4 and 13, looking good, I would let Shane and Dabel pick their quarterback, need some stability in my humble opinion." Interesting. So, Mark would stick with this regime despite. Christine, thank you so much. Christine drops 20 bucks in. I appreciate that, Christine. Thank you so much. Thank you for that support. And Christine says, "The quarterback, through two interceptions in the red zone, I do not understand how we talk about anything else." Well, Christine, maybe we're seeing this differently. He did throw the one where he rolled out and that gets tipped up. Obviously, you got a free runner at the quarterback. Quarterback's still responsible for taking care of the ball there. Obviously, that's on the quarterback. Don't like the play call. I think the play calling is bad. I think, you know, you need that player, Judea beyond clowny, a former number one overall pick blocked in that position. But, of course, we've seen those intersections before. That's definitely Daniel Jones, put it on him, whatever. And that's for sure. The other one, the Tyrone Tracy. I mean, you know, I think if you're blaming that on him, I disagree. I don't think that's on the quarterback. I think that, yeah, it's a little behind the running back. I think he catches that nine out of 10 times. I think most receivers catch that ball. I think you have to catch that ball. I don't want to hear about Theo Johnson over the middle that people are freezing that picture and showing me a picture of Theo Johnson getting off the line. Daniel Jones drops back. If he throws that, that safety was driving down. I have the dots. I have the next gen stats. I've been looking at it. You know, the safety is driving down on that play. I think that's a dangerous throw there. I think Daniel was trying to take a quick quick outside shorter completion. Listen, to blame that only on the quarterback, I disagree. We could agree to disagree. But certainly, Christine, what I do agree with with you is, you know, no one's sitting here defending the quarterback, like the quarterback dynamic in the giant situation is not good enough. But let's also remember this. How many backup quarterbacks are there in the NFL starting and winning games? Malik Willis and Green Bay has done it. Joe Flacco has done it. Sam Darnold has done it at a high level. Those are a few I just rattled off right off the top of my head. Who else have we got? I mean, Drake May, really technically a backup. Who else? I think I could keep going. And my point when I'm talking about all of these backups and the success they're having is the Giants had just as much of a chance as everybody else as a general manager and coach in this offseason to if they really didn't believe in Daniel Jones, to go get at least a backup behind them that you trust, that you feel confident in, that you could put in. They had the opportunity to do that. They had the option to do that. They didn't do it. They went and got Drew Lock, a guy who they put on the field a little bit, hasn't looked good when he's been on it. And remember, when Brian Dabel benched Daniel Jones in the Philadelphia Eagles game and played Drew Lock, essentially, entire fourth quarter and the next week he put Jones back in as the starter. What did Dabel say? Dabel said, and this isn't a, you know, I don't think this coach belongs on this team anymore, but this is in defense of Dabel. The one defensive Dabel would be he came out and said, well, he gives us the best chance to win. He's right. He's right that the roster they have, Daniel Jones gives them the best chance to win. Putting Drew Lock in does not give them a better chance to win. Whose fault is that? That's personnel. We saw on Hard Knocks, we saw the general manager say that Tyrod Taylor was going to be an option to come back. Tyrod Taylor wasn't coming back here. You left him on the bench healthy for Tommy DeVito. Why would he come back here? Christine, thank you so much. Scorpio says, Tom Brady, Troy Aikman, and Kurt Warner greats, no quarterback play, good quarterback play. Dabel stinks and he hasn't prepared this team to play. Brady Aikman and Kurt Warner, no good quarterback play. Yes, they do. They also, you know, I thought, I thought Kurt Warner today was taking shots at Daniel Jones even when they weren't warranted. That's what I thought. I'll say it. I don't care. Just like Greg Olson was taking shots left and right last year in Dallas at Wink Martindale while the Giants offense couldn't move the ball an inch. You know, these are just glaring broadcast narratives that are hard for me to not hear and see. All right, let's see rusty nails 79. Oh rusty nail. I haven't had a rusty nail in a while. Might have, might have to dip into a rusty nail later instead of the, instead of the old-fashioned. Rusty says, great podcast is always packed. Continue to keep it real. Since it's the bi-week, do you think Dabel and Shane still make it out of Germany with their jobs? Rusty, I don't see how. I really, I don't, I think the only way they continue to keep their jobs after this is if the Giants really believe what, you know, the people who are friendly with them have been selling. If the national narrative of the people who are protecting the Giants operation, if that narrative continues to be, that Daniel Jones is the only problem. And if the Giants organization really believes that then, you know, I, you know, if the Giants, if the Giants really believe that it's only Daniel Jones and they think this is a good coach and general manager being undercut by the Giants quarterback, then the anything's possible obviously in retaining them. I just don't see how you could come to that conclusion if you just look at everything. And, you know, I've said this before in this podcast, I'll say it again. Like, I, yeah, I gotta be honest, like as a human being, I'm beaten down by all this losing and this bullshit. Like, you know, professionally, you're trying to grow and being connected to this Giants operation day in and day out. It's a drag. It's a drag. And the people who, the people who work for the Giants, whether it's a player, a staffer, coach, whatever, the people who understand and who get it, they don't get pissed when they hear me say the things I'm saying. I got, I'm getting texts from people I trust that I'm right on target. They both have to go. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how else to put it any planer. I think they're done. I think they're done. That's my opinion. Now, listen, I don't have anybody telling me that Joe Shane's going to get fired tomorrow. And I don't have anybody telling me for sure that Brian Dable is getting fired tomorrow. I do think that from conversations I've had, I do think this coaching staff is finished. And I just, I just think, you know, the general manager is involved in every part of this operation. Every part of this operation is colored by the GM because the Giants are more of one of those like baseball, general manager setups. That's, that's kind of what they are. So I don't, you can't separate the two. Chris Bier says, do you think Giants play more zone, playing more zone was a mistake? And do you think the Giants will actually fire the coach and GM? I personally think they will fire the coach if not now at the end of the season. I think the GM is more on the ropes than people would realize. I mean, in addition with the Saquon Barkley stuff, I mean, how, how could anybody sit here and say that this is going in any positive direction that they're making any progress? I predicted them to win four games and I might have overshot the Giants win total. Seriously, I predicted them to win four games. You should be calling me an optimist. Yes, playing more zone was a mistake. I think what Martin Dale did really well the last two years, you know, their personnel hasn't been good enough from the start. It still isn't. Martin Dale has a scheme that it takes some chances, but it also helps conceal weaknesses in personnel by using guys to their strengths, trying to conceal their weaknesses and also, you know, like, one thing Deontay Banks is struggling with is that they're playing more zone. He is a man-to-man corner. And now his confidence looks shot, but he is a man-to-man press corner. And that's how they were using him before. It's not how they're consistently and always using him. Now they're playing more zone. He's not as good at zone. That's just, you know, that's just one example. Chris says, "What happens if one owner wants to fire a guy and one guy wants to keep them?" Well, you could have something like what we saw with the Gettleman-Shurmer situation, where let's say the Giants, you know, because listen, this is one thing, the Giants are not known for pulling the plug quickly on general managers. And, you know, you always have the overhauls, right? The overhauls of the operations of the Giants operation and of when they make changes. Like when they got Gettleman out of here and they fired him and they brought in Shane, Shane, you know, there was all this conversation of them with a different analytics department and revamping the way that they scout and their new draft room and going digital and all those things, right? So when you make all those changes and you throw all your eggs in that basket, that's part of the reason you don't want to just rip it all up because you do make a lot of changes to the way that you operate. And when you make drastic changes like that, you don't want to just say, "Well, okay, one year, two years, like it's not working. Let's go back to the old way." Or, you know, "Yeah, we changed our whole building, but let's just fire everybody." The problem is, though, when you do that and you get three years in and all you hear is excuses and all you hear is national narratives protecting the weaknesses and the problems and finger pointing, whether it's on the sideline or from the front office and, you know, listen, anybody who thinks I'm crazy should go listen to Seguan Barkley's interview on the Pivot Podcast. Go watch that interview where Seguan talks about the way that the Giants handled his exit. Go watch that and tell me that the Giants are doing things the right way. All right, let's see. Hey, thank you for all, thank you for all of those super chats. Really appreciate you guys. All right, this is a good opportunity to remind you guys who we are sponsored by. 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Obviously, the Panthers, I believe, have one of the worst past rushes in the NFL. But still, Judevion County, that's NFL players, and this is a guy who has struggled. He gets healthy on the field, has a game where you don't hear his name much. I think that's arrow pointing up for that game for Evan Neal. So, feel good for the kid, at least, because he's really behind the eight ball with that injury being misdiagnosed. Mules like Tyrone Tracy, but obviously, some big mistakes down the stretch. Let's see. Peter's town says, "Is this nightmare ever going to end? Not as long as they keep rolling the same thing out there." He says Evan Neal actually looked like a real pro today. Yes, he did. Authentic says, "I feel bad for the kid, Tyrone Tracy, but keep your head up. I feel bad, too. Great guy. Love my team," says Authentic, "but I do want a top five pick since we are out of it." That is the one silver lining of losing a game like this. Chronicle says, "Shadur is going to be a great giant." Hey, listen, that would certainly add some spice to the mix. Shadur Sanders throwing two Malik neighbors. That would be very interesting, very interesting. Let's see. Dave Z says, "If you change coaches now, they might unite and actually win a game or two, so just keep it status quo and lose out to get the first pick. It pained me to type that. That is interesting. We all know, though, that giant ownership doesn't believe in tanking." Kyler says, "Why the F does Jones look at the tablet every time after doing something dumb? He clearly isn't learning." Well, that's what he does after every game or every series. Daniel Jones goes to the tablet after every series. If it was Tommy DeVito, with Drew Locke, every Giants quarterback, that's what they do. They sit down. They talk about it with their position coach. With Brian Dable, he comes over as the play caller. That's just standard operating procedure, whether it goes well or poorly. After they score touchdowns, they do it after interceptions. But I know that's not what you want to see as a fan after those key mistakes. You want them to just fix it, because when you see bad mistakes, you feel like what you see going wrong is obvious. Dave Z says, "Wellington Mara is rolling in his grave." In all seriousness, Wellington, John's late father, is John's guiding light. John revered his father, reveres his father. One thing that Wellington Mara always operated on was a principle of believing very strongly in the voice of the fans. John has, without fail, not wavered from being his father's son in the sense that when the fans turn is when he recognizes it's time for a change. Whether it's the attendance at the stadium dissipating or fans writing emails and telling him that they want to see change, that's usually his guiding light coming from his father, which is how something that he really believed him was listening to the fans. That's always something to keep in mind based on how John Mara operates. Peterstown says, "How about Dable tells his players to hit the block, run, catch, and score buttons?" Kyler says, "Why doesn't the line push our runners like other teams? They give no damn extra effort. Neil wasn't a problem, so that's good." Kyler, I did see a play where it looked like John Runyon Jr. pulled Tyron Tracy, I think, or single Tyron. One of the plays, it was like a third and short, I think, and he basically pulled him over the line to gain and the pile, and there were some other guys involved in that. I did see that in spots today, but I know what you're saying. You just want to see more extra yards at the end of those runs in those plays. Dave Z says, "Thank you, Pat, for giving us this outlet for our frustrations. You've got it, Dave. Thanks for being here." Santi Claus says, "It seems the coach, Kyler, wearing number eight as another unfortunate victim due to poor performance. This young man is a cancer to the winning culture." He's a part of the problem. He's not the problem, in my opinion. Brett says, "From the head down time for a change," I agree, Brett. Michael says, "This team is awful. Make changes from top to bottom. It is awful. The operation is awful. The execution is awful. They have an offensive head coach who got this job based on his play calling and his scoring in Buffalo who can't score points. It's not just the quarterback." A2 says, "Hey, Pat, today's game was another unique way of losing." Kind of impressive how many ways this team can discover to lose a game, truly inspirational, no doubt. Brett says, "The play calling sucks, Pat. Simply simplify everything." Yes, it does. Authentic says, "We need to keep both Shane and Abel. We need stability." Brett says, "Neil played through every play. Great game. Why has he been sitting?" Ooh, interesting question there, Brett. Brett says, "Regardless of the fumble, Tracy needs to stay on the field." Brett, you know, interesting comment there about Neil from you. I think I do think he was still injured into the season, even though the Giants weren't letting on, and he wasn't on the injury report, because Carmen Brasillo, the offensive line coach, he seemed to slip at one point and make a comment about how Evan had only been doing stuff for two weeks. And I asked him about that if he was only practicing for the last two weeks, and he said no, that he hadn't, that wasn't the case. But I think the recovery from the setback in the spring after the ankle injury, after the misdiagnosis of his ankle as a sprain, even though it was a break, I think that really put Evan back. And then also, I think the Giants were kind of keeping him on the sideline because they don't want him to go out there and have a huge, terrible game, and it'd be another talking point about why things have gone so poorly. British Gridiron Film says just got back in from the game. Daniel Jones' last game, hopefully, with a competent quarterback we win the game, constant off-target throws. Man, I agree that Daniel obviously made plays to lose this game, but I don't understand people who think that he's the only reason why this team is losing. I genuinely don't. But British Gridiron, you're awesome for weighing in and giving that viewpoint and thanks for joining, and thanks for the Super Chat. I really do appreciate that. And I think that, listen, we've seen programs and teams turn around because they added the right quarterback, Washington, a good example. But one thing Washington did was they got a good coach and general manager and new culture and regime and a fresh start to the addition of that quarterback as well. I think it's overlooked that they brought in some really good depth and veteran pieces and guys who are in stable, supporting roles, and the locker room seems stronger, and there's belief there. And Quinn has the team responding to him, and obviously the quarterback is the straw that stirs the drink. But I think they've done a lot there to support it. They're even getting a really good play from an offensive line that was supposed to stink. Coach by Bobby Johnson, one of the scapegoats last year from the Giants. So I do think there's a lot of different factors. But obviously, listen, again, just want to reiterate this, anybody who's just joining or thinks it, just because I sit here and say Jones wasn't the only reason. I am not advocating them running back Daniel Jones next year. In fact, I think with the injury guarantee, there's a really good chance we've seen Daniel Jones last snap as a giant at this point, right? So that's where I'm at. I mean, I understand that and I support the changeover, but I really don't like the way that he is constantly blasted by media members as a scapegoat to protect the people running the Giants right now. I think it's disgusting. I think it's disgusting. All right, let's see. Got another nice super chat here. Daniel. Daniel Hirsch always bringing the support. Daniel says, Pat, you're the goat and you're just getting and you're just getting started. Dables press conferences make me sick. Thanks, Daniel. Thank you for the enormous super chat there. Really appreciate that. Yeah, I think I personally believe like I know, you know, I know there's people bad mouthing me somewhere. I know there's some trolls in this chat. I know there's trolls all over social media. And listen, I don't expect everybody to agree with me. I don't want everybody to agree with me. Everybody shouldn't agree with me. This is a business where though I believe that what you see and what you believe and what you know, I think it's only right to be showing the fans, the information that you have. And frankly, I'm just not afraid to have to generate analysis off of what I strongly believe in based on the information I have. And sometimes I'm wrong, right? Everybody's wrong. Like I said, I picked the New Orleans Saints to win their division. They fired the coach already. Like, you know, there are plenty of things I don't get right. You know, so definitely not somebody who thinks I'm above like raising my hand at certain points and just saying, Oh yeah, I screwed that up or hey, I was wrong or whatever it is. But you know, I think that Daniel to your point, we're building something real here because I'll just be honest with you. It's the game of playing to the teams and to the sources and trying to push versions of the truth that people are telling you because they want it out there to help themselves. Like, I can't do it. I can't do it. It's it's do I have sources and people who I lean towards or I support or, you know, I take their side on things or whatever. Yes, but it's when I believe that it's when I believe that the truth points to a certain thing. I'm not going to tell a version of the truth that is that is a lie to protect somebody. Like, you know, as much as I felt that Joe Judge was not shouldn't have been fired after year two. And I thought that he was a good CEO coach. And I thought he was undercut. He had his legs undercut and this and that. I also know that once that press conference happened in Chicago, like all bets were off because even though nothing he was saying was wrong, you know, it's hard to it's you can't you couldn't support that, right? You couldn't support the Dexter Lawrence made a comment post game that they need to do better on the edges against the run. What? Well, I mean, Carolina had some success up the middle. Tell you that they had success in a lot of places with the run. Holy cow. Wow, man, anything but criticizing the interior Giants defensive line. Is that what we're doing here? Thank you for that, uh, super chat. Really appreciate that Daniel. All right, let's see. Let's get back into the queue. Daniel, thanks for the super chat. You guys remember if you purchase a super chat or super sticker like Daniel just did, like some of our other loyal followers have I will answer your question immediately or address your opinion immediately. It jumps to the top of the queue. Um, let's see. Kyler says rich eyes and actually called a good game. I was entertained by his calling more than the game. Yeah. Isons funny. He's entertaining. Um, I just thought the lean of the analysis from Kurt who I really love Kurt Warner's analysis, but, um, I just think it's not the first broadcast I've heard where it feels like it's slanted towards, uh, against Daniel Jones. Chronicle says. Dable is coaching himself out of a job. Shane, however, has had some young talent looking good. Interesting. I would, I would want to know what your list includes their, uh, Chronicles. Brett thinks they should trade Dexter Lawrence for three guys. A two says 60 yards passing after three quarters. Daniel Jones's fault. Hmm. Well, then it says, Pat, tell us why you don't like this regime. We got to continue to build. Um, I think I've laid that out, but I'll get into it more as I go and all these other answers here, authentic. Brett says wide receivers have zero separation. Well, it's something every play, right, Brett? So it's like, it's one time it's, uh, you know, a drop. Another time it's Daniel doesn't see an open receiver. Another time it's no separation. Another time it's a receiver like neighbors who's very special talent running a route that's a yard short of the first down marker when he's supposed to be across it, like, or there's a pass protection breakdown, whatever it is, there's always something. Baseball says, Pat, how do you think David Jones didn't blow this game? He overthrows neighbors with on the first drive, doesn't pull the trigger on a flea flicker with two open receivers, throws two red zone picks. He's a bum. Yeah, that, well, that that overthrow of Daniel Jones, um, that overthrow of Daniel Jones was, uh, I'm sorry, that overthrow of Malik neighbors in my first job. I don't know what that was. That was ridiculous. Um, you know, inexplicable. Um, inexplicable. Just getting some texts about how bad this is. Barbara says, so what quarterback does everyone want with the first pick right now? I think should door is the pick at number one. Be interesting if Deon Sanders was, uh, on the sideline for Giants games. That'd be, that'd be interesting dynamic. Not impossible though. Mean who, who else would you want? Let's see. Gerald says, Pat, you believe there should be a GM and head coach change because you don't believe in their ability to develop a team and, or a quarterback. Um, I think, hold on one second, just getting a message in here. Oh yeah. Yeah, you can see all the people who align with the organization, or I wouldn't say necessarily just with the organization. All the people aligning with the leaders of this regime, um, are putting it on the quarterback even after the turnover and overtime was committed by somebody other than him. It's really, it's really special. It's really special. Let's see. Okay. Wait, let me answer your question though. So. Gerald, no, I don't believe in their ability to develop and build a team. Um, I think that their drafting has been poor. I think that, uh, their free agents signings and decisions have been up and down. Um, I believe even when they get a good player in, like Brian Byrne, the asset allocation was reckless considering what they needed on this team. Um, based on the money they spent and also the picks they used, I thought that was a desperate move. I said it at the time. You can go back and look. And I like Brian Burns a lot, like him as a person, like him as a player. Um, not blaming him but the reason the team is what it is. But I'm saying, you know, you could have used that money on saquon and an ed rusher. You could have used the pick you traded for him on a corner. Um, their offensive line, this offseason needed a complete overhaul and retooling because the first year that they were here, they signed John Feliciano and Mark Lewinsky. They drafted Evan Neal, Josh Azudu and Marcus McEthan and Azudu can't play. Um, Neil, we just saw get back on the field. We'll see, hasn't looked good prior to this. McEthan's not on the team. Kalwinski's not on the team. Feliciano's not on the team. They honestly, you know, I liked Feliciano. I thought getting rid of him honestly was a mistake. But my point is the fixes to the O line that needed to be made now were because the initial fixes to the line didn't hold up, right? So, you know, it's just, uh, let me think. I think that the lack of depth and high end talent, right? Jalen Hyatt, a guy who finally factored in in this game, but Jalen Hyatt, a guy who they haven't shown trust in. And listen, also, like the guys like Hyatt, Evan Neal, who were on the field, made some plays in this game. Now I want to see it against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. You want to see it against these NFL teams that are legit teams because the Carolina Panthers stink, but they stink. So, you know, no one's basing anything off of, um, off of this game from the standpoint of, oh, I saw a guy make a good play against the Panthers. Like he's fine. That's not, you don't evaluate yourself against the worst team in football. You do, however, indict yourself when you lose to the worst team in football, unless you are the worst team in football. All right, let's see. Um, Gerald, I hope that answers your question. I think I'll say more about that for sure. Jim says Pat, let's contrast Denver, Sean Payton, Bo Nix with the New York Giants. Did we misevaluate Nix? Did we have an opportunity to get Payton? Um, well, no, the, uh, so Sean Payton, I don't think that aligned with the, uh, let me see. So one thing I will say, we don't know how this is going to play out. Obviously, JJ McCarthy, uh, tore his knee. So if the Giants drafted him, maybe he would have torn his knee and they would have been sitting here with the same quarterback issue behind Daniel Jones with no one else to just put in there and show progress and that kind of thing. Um, but right. So yeah, Sean Payton came into Denver a year later. So the Giants hired Dabel and Shane going into 2022 and then Payton came in in 23 with Denver. So that was not, uh, aligned properly. That's what I was, I was going to say that that I had to double check that I wasn't like going to say something wrong there. I didn't want to be inaccurate about that, but he was a year later. As far as the quarterbacks though, it was very interesting to me that the Giants did not draft a QB, um, after, uh, they did not get Jaden Daniels, Drake May and Caleb Williams. You know, I think that Michael Penance Jr, bow, Nick, JJ McCarthy, interesting that a regime that was clearly so out on Daniel Jones, really, anyway, based on their behavior and things that you heard, but you signed him to that extension. Let the year before has this regime and then you thought you were going to win in year two and you built the team to do that and fell flat. Now year three, you're even worse than the team was before you took over, but you still don't draft a quarterback at six. And now you don't have a plan for the future other than just keep giving us more time. So, uh, you know, listen, I wouldn't have drafted bowniks because, uh, and listen, you know, they, they scouted in more than I did. I would not have drafted bowniks because when I watched him at the senior ball, it was confusing for me to understand what was what people were talking about that they saw. Um, that was just a couple of practices that I saw, though. You know, obviously, if I were really evaluating him, I would have done a lot more work on him in person than just seeing him with my eyes with that. And I'm not including things you saw on TV or whatever. But, um, I think what it shows you is that Sean Payton can get something out of a QB that, for example, I and the Giants decided was not, was not the guy, right? Um, that's what it looks like to have an offensive coach who is going to get the most out of somebody who not everybody has rated as, you know, certain high level. So yeah, in other words, you know, when you have an offensive head coach who calls the place, you want to be in a position where you have a coaching staff that makes those players better. That's my point. All right. So let's keep getting into the queue. Thank you again for that. Uh, super chat, Jim, um, really appreciate you. Thank you everybody for being here, by the way, we're, uh, consistent, strong numbers on this chat. I know you guys are frustrated. Like I said, it's frustrating covering this team as well. Um, let's see. All right. I believe I found my place. Baseball says he wants jail in Milro if they draft a quarterback. Um, Dave Z says they have way too many holes across the roster. That is for sure and under discussed. Barb disagrees with the comment earlier. I think it was by Brett saying that they should trade Dexter. He says can't trade Dexter Lawrence. Stop it. Brett says the majority of this loss is on player management, play calling, run defense and the secondary never finding the ball, right? And the quarterback is in there as well, but all of those things are issues. Exactly. To Brett's point. All of those things are issues with this team. Gary says, Pat, I never thought I would see a Giants team that is more boring than the Joe judges. Right. So Joe, it was all Joe judges fault when the offense couldn't function before, but now it's not the coaching staff and general managers fault. It's the quarterback. That's it. Barb says table needs to go. Love should do or not sure the Giants would draft him though. We will see. Um, Dave says he likes he prefers John Runyon Jr. to Saquon Barkley. You could have had both. Thomas says, Pat, is that a Steinway grand piano behind you? And can you play us some Danny blue gone blues? That's funny. I loved by the way that fans, uh, Danny Euro sign that was hilarious. Uh, that would love that sign. Um, yeah, no, so. This is, uh, unfortunately, this is not my real house virtual background here. Hopefully one day my house looks like this. Peterstown says maybe bringing a guy like Ernie, a corsy to help with the vetting process for a GM and coach. Ernie is already somebody who, uh, has John Marizier. So it would have to be somebody other than that. Something needs to change because there are way too many cooks in that kitchen says Peterstown. Brett says, a Sean Robinson, Xavier McKinney, uh, Julian loves. They call Barkley John Feliciano. Who else? HR says 10 years of the same. Would you believe it is ownership? Give Kafka, play calling duties and let's just see says HR. I mean, that would be a tough thing to go back to and tell me that this operation is fun. Brett says Richie James had a good year except for the fumbles walked. Hodgens was great. Then his playing time was cut. Neil sitting for a practice squad player management stinks. Noel says, what's going on, Pat? Do you think table is intentionally keeping Daniel Jones as the starter knowing that he is his worst option to win games to get the top draft pick? No, I think that table is under enough pressure where if he had a better option, he would play him coaches and players want to win. You also can't from table standpoint, you can't lie to your locker room and say this player is better when you know the other one is because players know players know. We got another super chat here. Let's check it out. Looks like it's from Gerald. Yeah, Pat, you answered my question and made many good points. That's why I subscribe. You're not jumping on the giant bandwagon. Ra Ra, you call what you see. Thank you, Gerald. Thank you for saying that. Really appreciate that. I like when people call me on what I say and say, I think you're wrong because XYZ. The only thing I don't like any time we do chats or conversations is when people make it personal and become nasty and become trolls. I never tolerate that. I don't think that's good for anybody. I don't think it should happen for me. I don't think it should happen to any reporter, regardless of what they're saying or selling or doing. It's okay to disagree. I just feel Gerald, to be honest with you, sometimes it sounds like it feels like you're shouting into an echo chamber because so much of the NFL is a business and an operation where everybody's holding hands helping each other, trying to make sure they all keep their jobs. I think that would be a difficult thing for me to do. I don't ever intend to be that. I hope I'm never that. I hope that I'm somebody who always says, what I believe is true, no matter what the response is, if that makes sense. What I believe is true. That's what I want to share with you. Thank you for saying that, Gerald. Christine, I'm only skipping over that one because I think I answered in your super chat. Scorpio thinks Daniel Jones stinks. Santi says, how can we fire John Maron, his advisors? I did test number eight, but the problem lies at the top. Scorpio says, not one receiver, tight end, or running back wants to come to the Giants because of Daniel Jones. Brett says, who is number 13, Pat looks pretty good, dummies. An illusion, I think, to Jalen Hyatt, not playing enough. H.A.R. says, we seem to be losing quality players in the past due to inconsistencies. Hey, Tish, where are you? Let's get your input and get things going. Really well said, H.R. Baseball thinks the quarterback is bad, not the play calling. Barb wants the first pick. Edwin says, fire everyone, clean house, please. Brett says, how do we get the plane rerouted to Buffalo? That's a good line. Baseball says, yeah, fire everyone and be the Jets. See where that gets you. Kevin says, people act like Dabel is some offensive genius. He's been an offensive coordinator four times in this league. Yeah, you said it. H.A.R. says, Theo Johnson, Malik neighbors, Juan de la Robinson, Tracy, Jalen Hyatt, giants of plenty offensive weapons, but yet play calling updated O line. Man, we miss Andrew Thomas and still can't win. See, I think there's some positives with some of those players. I do think it's too early to say that some of those rookies and players are draft hits. I think that's really way too early to say something like that. Barb says, lock stinks, like you said. That's on the coaching GM for not having a backup. Dabel needs to go. What quarterback do we draft? I do think Shador is the top one, right now. T Patrick says Kurt Warner hates the Giants since they benched him, but he was constantly on Daniel Jones, which is something that people lead the Giants are, you know, want out there. So that's what was surprising to me. Eli says, both interceptions were not bad read interceptions agreed. Barb says Warner hates the Giants. Brett says both interceptions were bad play calls, along with the third and one flea flicker. The fumble even looked too busy. Nothing is simplified. Patrick says, I agree. It's Shane ineffectual drafts and free agency signings that created this horrendous roster. Yes, that's, that's the thing. This has all been a patient process up to this point from the outsider's view of let's wait and evaluate. They like, I don't understand why people don't see that the first year they exceed expectations, they don't stay committed to a rebuild. They think that they haven't figured out. They think they're going to win in year two. They fall flat on their face. If you remember, Sterling Shepherd said that behind the scenes, Brian Dabel was talking Super Bowl and the team fell and flat on his face. Everybody gets fired or leaves of their own accord because they don't want to work here. Giants retool. Brian Dabel takes over play calling and now everything's an optics driven narrative spell of Joe Shane, Brian Dabel and the Giants trying to make things look better than they are and blame everything on the quarterback. Well, have news for you. This has been a three-year process of things going a certain way and it's not going in the right direction. John Marrah's own evaluation and his promise is that when he walks off the field at the end of the season, he needs to see the arrow pointing up this today, the loss to the Carolina Panthers. Look, even going to overtime with the Carolina Panthers, even having this game close is the definition of regression. This is regression. This is what this is. Eli says, "I think the structure of the franchise is doing okay. I don't believe Daniel Jones is the cause. We have a few bad plays that result in our record. This year's quarterback draft class is not a great one. Shane drafted well." Wow. Very rosy outlook there. Eli, obviously, you're welcome to have all of those takes for sure. I disagree, especially with the few bad plays part there. I do think that if I were a coach, I would be saying the same thing the Giants coaches are saying to their players, like Shane Bowen, with the run defense, he'll say, "Well, it's only a handful of big runs every week that's really getting us." Well, when you give up two to three to four explosive run plays every week, that's what makes you a bad run defense. As a coach, that's what I would say to my team to keep them fighting, but that's what makes you a bad team and a bad defense. Patrick says, "I agree, Pat. You've identified the problems expertly. Thank you for not succumbing to the pressures of being an official Giants reporter." You got it, T. Thank you for saying that. Eli said, "Made some questionable free agency moves in regards to McKinney and Barkley on Shane. KTS says Ward or Milro, only two quarterbacks, Giants should be targeting. Barb says, "I like Shane, but Dable has to go." Brett says, "Dable calls plays at times that no one would think to call. That would be great if any of them ever worked." Peterstown says, "With Brandon Brown coming from Philly tree, I would give him a shot at GM." I mean, he's been a part and parcel of everything that's been going on here. I don't know why you would just promote him like that, but who knows? Alex says, "Wink was an excellent defensive coordinator and Dable pushed him out with dysfunctional crap." You said it, Alex. Kevin says, "Dable has had four stints as an offensive coordinator and three of the four he's sucked. Two years in Cleveland, one year in Miami, and one year in Kansas City, it's amazing how he looked great with Josh Allen in Buffalo." Everything you said there is true. Everything you said there is true. There's a lot of data and a lot of lines on that resume that read just like this Giants experiment reads. And by the way, on Alex's comment about the Dable and Wink leaving with dysfunctional crap, just to be clear, Martindale resigned. He was pushed out in the sense that he decided he couldn't work here anymore, but left of his own accord, which is again one of many coaches who did that. Ashley says, "Dable play calling sucks. There's no imagination." Brett says, "Zero." And I mean zero interceptions from the secondary, not even close. Is that possible all season and can it be a record to shoot for? Yeah, hey, maybe they'll get another high draft pick for that. Kevin says, "The Giants need to hire an experienced GM and head coach." Brett says, "Thanks a lot, Pat. We are pissed." Thanks for being here, Brett. "I'm a fan," says the Giants need a dual-threat quarterback. They have to draft Milro. He is a stud in the best college quarterback. Let's see. Okay. Michael says, "I think you're right about the college quarterbacks, KTS. I like can ward a lot." Ward looks like a guy who has some talent, not overly fast, has an arm, right for sure. Ken extends plays, did have a game losing fumble where he should have gotten rid of the ball, not sure how he sees the field, how well he sees the field. Have to see more tape and do more evaluations and talk to more people about that. Danny says, "Can you ask Marr if he's glad he gave that contract to Daniel Jones still?" He has said he was glad before. We'll see if he still does. Will says, "We need a quarterback. Get rid of Dable and Jones. Simple. I'm a Giants fan. All my life, bench Jones. Ready, please enough." Bill says, "The Wellington Marrow video the Giants made recently was really well done. If you haven't seen it, I recommend it." Will P says, "Sick of losing enough. Dable out Jones out." KTS says, "Shane has to go." Johnny says, "Hey, Pat. What are you hearing around the rumor mill like Shadoor and Dion being a package deal? We might just have the openings, but I can't see Marr ever going out of the box like that. That would be shocking. That would be shocking. But at this point, nothing else has worked, right? So, man, Dion will be a hoot based on how I've seen him treat media members at times publicly. Lewis says, "Giance looked checked out. No complimentary football." "Everybody out," says KT. T. Patrick says, "Shane and Dable must go first, then finding a way to trade the first pick from multiple high picks to fortify the atrocious lines and linebackers are next, then a quarterback can be added." Yeah, a lot of problems on this roster. Jacob says, "Hey, Pat. Long time no see, buddy. You worry today might get to Tyrone's head." Ah, no, mistakes happen. I mean, you know, I think as long as people don't blame him for one mistake the way they blame Daniel Jones for one or two, I think that, you know, what this should call into mind, though, is, you know, all the shade always thrown at Saquon Barkley about stuff. Like, players make mistakes all the time. You know, the best players in the league make mistakes all the time. My example for what the NFL is and how people need to think of it is I know Lamar Jackson is one of one, but when you watch Lamar play, like he'll make misreads or bad throws or commit a turnover where you say, "What the heck was that?" The thing is he makes those bad plays and then he comes back and scores four touchdowns, right? Like, so Tyrone Tracy today, he had the fumble, but then he has a touchdown. He has the dropped interception, but he has other key runs. So it's not always going to be perfect. You can't expect it to be perfect, you know, bottom line. Let's see. Betch says our offense wasn't even better than the Panthers. Right, right. What are we talking about here? We're talking about not blaming people above Daniel Jones. Anybody who thinks that? Oh my God. Betch says that's the bigger problem. Yes, yes. Could we talk about how much time Bryce Young had to throw today? Like, is nobody really talking about this? Silky Smoothes as Danny Dimes out it again. Two red zone turnovers, you won't win in the NFL. British says two interceptions in field goal range. Fleaf liquor, bad play call, but throw was late. Neighbors catch where he took a bump with super late throw. Daniel Jones stinks, and I have been a supporter of him until now. Barb says, Pat, I will always have your back. Thank you, Barb. I know you will. I have yours. Williams says, bench Daniel Jones. Baseball says, DJ is not this regime's quarterback. Hold on. Hold on. Time out, time out, time out. They resigned him to a four year $160 million contract extension. They're not, he's not their quarterback. Just because he's not their quarterback, right? Four year $160 million extension. Also, if he wasn't their quarterback, they would have had a better backup plan in place this year. Silky says they should have punished the Panthers today. True enough, some are most games come down to a player to a possession or two, but today's game should have been a blowout. Right. Even the fact that it was close is embarrassing. Baseball says, I agree. It's disgusting how the media goes after Daniel Jones. I do agree with that. Silky says, giant should have been up 10 easily, maybe 13. Greg says, just because this year's draft is somewhat better than Shane's previous draft doesn't make it so good. Thank you, Greg. 80 plus rushing yards in the first quarter for Carolina 157 to 16, the yards for the chem, the Panthers versus the Giants in the first quarter. John says, in my opinion, huge problem with the team is a lack of leadership on good teams, players who are leaders take responsibility and make other players who are not giving effort to better. Barkley was one in my opinion. Christine says Daniel left six to 14 points on the field. Patrick says, sounds like Lawrence has had enough of the extremely poor linebacker play. I agree. You know, I love decks. He's a great player, but if he's not going to take ownership for the interior D line being part of the problem as well, that's not cool because that it's everybody. Like, no, stop pointing fingers. Jacob says, nice living room, Pat. Yeah, exactly. It's the piano that makes it. Rich thinks this regime get one more year. Silky smooth says, two Renzo picks and just story. British says it was very cold at the stadium. Don't know if that was why he overthrew at the start. Silky says, why can't the Giants do like the Falcons and Vikings and sign a good veteran and build a team via the draft? That's a great question. That's the general manager. Why are they trying trick plays when they can't even execute regular places undefined? Silky says, game should have never gone to overtime. T says it's not a separation in issue with the receivers. Justin says, thank you for all your great coverage, Pat, based on what you're hearing, how bad would it have to be for married a fully clean house from top to bottom? I'm embarrassed as a long time fan. Well, let's go by John Maris comments after the game first. John Maris comments or sorry, John Maris comments he didn't speak after the game. Let's go by John Maris comments in Manhattan a few weeks ago. If John, if we go by those comments, what he said there is it can get as bad as possible. I'm not making changes in season is what he is basically what he said. It is what he said. He said, I'm not making changes during the season. So that was his comment. Now, after the season, he basically said, we'll see because he said, I don't anticipate changes after the season, which is what he said. So you got to wait and see there, right? I think what it would take is what we've seen. You see a player quitting on the field. You see a guy cut because he won't take a pay cut and the players don't like it. You see players saying the things need to change. You see the giants using Jacob Johnson as a marketing face for this trip and not putting him on the active roster. You see fans who have had enough. You see, you know, constant injuries. You see poor decision making, bad draft picks, signings that don't work out, trades that have players retiring after you acquire them. I mean, you know, I don't think I'm crazy, but Justin says I'm embarrassed as a longtime fan. You know what I think it takes, Justin? I think it's a hard conversation between John and Steve. That's what I think it is. Horses says their drafting has been awful. Brett says if Judge had them running. If Judge had them running, A.T. Gino Gillin may not have been hurt. Oh, interesting. Interesting point there, Brett. So Brett saying if Judge were here and he had them conditioning better, Thomas Gino and Gillin might not be hurt. He has an interesting that when guys were getting hurt, when Judge was here, everybody was blaming it on how hard they were practicing. But now that everyone's getting hurt and practice on your day bowl and Joe Shane, no one wants to talk about it. Like what? What are we doing? What are we doing? For show, his, for show's heart is broken. I hear you. Silky, I see you saying, you know, stop making excuses for Daniel, but I see you've, you've made a lot of the same types of comments. So that's why I'll, I'll come to your next comments when they address something other than Daniel Jones stinks because I see, I see your point and we've, we've definitely put it out there here. Oh, we'll go to your next comment. Jones is a bum and the fumble didn't cause them the game. The Tyrone Tracy fumble? That's the exact play that lost the game. Mules thinks Daniel Jones lost them the game even though they're running back fumbled in over time in field goal range. T says, the better the roster got the clearer the source of the problem became, it's the quarterback stupid. Joey B says, I'm over at Pat. We suck fire everyone, hit the reset button and they better not raise our season ticket prices again with the trash we have to watch. That's the kind of stuff that if John Marry hears gets to him. Silky says the line isn't terrible. They obviously run Brock block pretty well. Patrick says a quarterback selected this offseason will suffer the same fate as Jones. I hate to tell you no quarterback who ever lived could play well behind this ridiculous array of garbage Shane has gathered. Silky says the quarterback holds the ball and sees ghosts. Cropper says it's going to be a long time before this team is good again sucks man. I agree with that. Wesley says it's all going to the Giants plan. It's all for a purpose. We're going to come out the other side of this a better team, right? Oh, man. I mean, if you have no hope, that's got to be your only one, right? Larry says, I thought Spencer Rattler would have been a good gamble as he was taken very late. There was an opportunity to get him cheap with a late pick. I thought so too. They were in that market. There were people who really thought they were going to take him. They just ended up saying that they thought it was a he was selected above their value on the board. So that's Joe Shane, you know, drafting for his exact value. Silky says Bo Nick's better than Jones in college and better than him in his rookie year. Johnny says the three year Shane has been here. There hasn't been a franchise changing player drafted or signed. Our best players are still get them in guys, neighbors and Tracy look good, but are not franchise changing. Very good points. Very good points. Inbred says no unit has improved other stable and Shane in three years. I agree. George says late to the party was at the dentist was more enjoyable than the game and saw your daily news headline in the cab and knew it was going to be a good talking ball today. Thank you, George. Unfortunately, same old here in Giants land. Let's see. Oh, we got this is what happens when you don't draft the quarterbacks as Intel. Silky, one last warning. You're calling somebody a dumb for dumb for their take. We don't do that here. Okay. So I love that you are taking a contrary viewpoint like you think it's Daniel Jones. And that's the problem. And I appreciate that viewpoint because it rounds out our conversation. Like I said, I've been wrong about things before. You can't make comments like this about people in our chat. This is not what we do here. We don't do that. This is not the place for that. You can go in my Twitter or X mentions with all the other trolls and make it personal if you want. We don't make things personal here. Please last chance. Dan says you have balls, my friend, not afraid to speak your opinion. Keep doing it. Thank you, Dan. Like I said, it's based on the information. Jacob says, Pat, what's easier on draft night covering a team that is a top three pick or covering a team drafting later in the draft. I would say it's you're more engaged in the draft when you're covering a team with a high pick because then you have to do tons of work on all the top prospects and you're digging on everything. It's like you're you can leave no stone on turn. When your team has a pick in the late 20s, you know, the guys at the top of the draft, as an NFL columnist, you're covering that. But you know, if you're looking at it from a giant lens, you know, there's plenty of players in the first round who are exciting, but you're like, well, you know, that'll that'll never be a possibility. Right. So it's more interesting for your team to have a high pick. It's more work, but I don't mind work, especially when it's fun work. All right, let's see. Intel once can ward. No, I this is not accurate. Marrow doesn't want a black quarterback. That's not accurate. You know, like I said, the giants were the giants were looking at you saw on hard knocks that Brian Dable said he would trade out for Jayden Daniels. So that's not accurate. Cropper says, bro, we don't we didn't need to sign Saquon running the ball is not the problem. Okay. I mean, he's an MVP candidate on their arch rival in Philadelphia. All right, silky. This is a valid point. Daniel Jones can't finish the drive unless he can run it in. That's a valid point that he struggles throwing in the red zone. Of course. Yes. No, silky. I promise you, I don't really think there's anybody in this chat who thinks that Daniel Jones should still be the giants quarterback next season. There's no no one no one there's no one taking that viewpoint. But I think you make a really good point. I've said this about Daniel Jones for a while now. I think it's taking a lot of people to catch a while to catch up. Everyone assumed that because he is a smart person and went to Duke and had an Ivy League scholarship over to and all that, that his problem is not mental. But I think his processing on the field is a major problem. Like in other words, his physical attributes are not his issue. Even though he was a walk on like at Duke, his physical attributes are not the problem. The problem is when the game speeds up and when the field shrinks, it's the processing. So I think that's a really good point by you. Let's see. Horses says, just hire Bill Belichick and be done with it. Lou says, Hey, Pat, do you feel the Giants have a problem developing players? Because it seems like former players have better games, example, a Sean Robinson. Definitely, I think sometimes the way they handle guys leaving makes players feel a certain way and play a certain way against them. I also believe that yeah, I think it also, not just developing, it's also from a schematic level, putting them in the best position to succeed. So how do you use your players to conceal their weaknesses and accentuate their strengths? Dom says, Pat, what are your top five questions going to be for Joe Shane? Dom, I don't have them ready at the moment. I'll tell you this, we talked to Joe Shane, I believe on Tuesday, not certain of that yet. I believe it's going to be Tuesday. We'll double check that. He talks at the bye week. You know, we should be doing a talking ball live with Pat Leonard tomorrow, Monday, November 11th, at which point we will discuss those types of things. But I think certainly a major one would be, what is your argument for the fact that there has been progress made in your three years here? I think very short and sweet. You know, Ty says, what corner has looked great under Jerome Henderson's coaching? Man, definitely Jerome Henderson, definitely a leader in the odds of scapegoats who will be next for the Giants rather than actually ripping it up and doing what's right here. You know, I think Deontay Banks put some good football on the field in the past. I think this year it's been worse, you know, defensively overall. I don't think Jerome Henderson is the reason why. Mike says, I don't think Belichick will have much passion anymore. He's been around the track so many times he's quite old. Silky says, how can two and eight be the best option to win, make it make sense? Yeah, well, that's, I'm just quoting Gable there, Silky. I mean, that's what he said. So what I'm saying is that's he's saying on my roster, this is the best quarterback I have. That's what Dable said. Tyrone says, Hey, Pat, you don't think Loxie's a wide open wandale on that flea flicker sack? Oh, Daniel should have thrown that ball. No doubt about it. Yeah, I mean, how can you argue that? I feel this franchise has been in denial of how they are viewed since callphone left. Coming off hard knocks to how this season is turning out has hammered that perception of the Giants. Very well said, Paulo. Great contribution there. Jim says, Pat, FYI, BONIX two touchdowns Denver 14 Kansas City 10. And that was earlier on. Let's check the updates here. Yeah, that's interesting. I thought, I thought BONIX was really going to meet his match going in against Steve Spagnolo in Kansas City. Still 14 to 10 in the third quarter. They're interesting and New Orleans with the fired coach burst. Eric Carr two touchdowns, both to Marquez Baldis scantling. Interesting. Thanks for the chip in there, Jim. Joel says, Pat came on late. Shane Bowen and the rest of the defensive staff needs to be fired. Defense sucks. Can't stop anyone team can do whatever they want to us. This whole team needs to get fired. They're terrible. Everybody. This is just a terrible operation. But Joel, I agree. I mean, listen, after Wink left, you know, there were a lot of guys the Giants wanted who didn't want the job and who stayed where they were or took other jobs. Bowen was down way down the list of candidates. And at least Bowen's been accountable when he does interviews. Horses says, Hyatt looked good against the worst defense in the league. He must be amazing. Yeah, exactly. Intel says, Pat, what do we expect? You predicted four wins and I predicted five wins. It looks like three wins. Oh, there were people who picked a lot more than that. Tyrone says, Daniel don't as a Cyclops and always has been. Silky says, I don't understand what Giants fans don't understand about that silky. Silky, nobody here is advocating for Daniel Jones being the answer anymore. Nobody. We just, I just believe that the narrative that it's all him is ridiculous. All right, let's see. Ashley says, the only way Dable saves his job is they hire an offensive coordinator with experience for next. Christine said, Joe Judge had Daniel Jones at quarterback too, Pat. What's the common denominator? Well, actually, Christine, what happened with Joe Judge's offense to look at that bad was that Jones got hurt and then they had Mike Glennon and Jake from playing again, bad roster construction. Brian Dable this year has Daniel Jones playing. So their offense now is really at that same level with Daniel Jones in the game. Joe Judge didn't have Daniel Jones. So I don't think that's apples to apples. For sure, though, he was the franchise QB in both stops and spots. But my point is, how is the coach the only problem one time and the quarterback's the problem the other time? I don't follow that. Joey B says, I want to take a shot on John Gruden. He's done well with rebuilds and Belichick is not going to win, not going to want to do a rebuild. He has to get a team that can win now, I think. Yeah, the only problem with that is Gruden with those emails and what was said in those emails, really hard to rationalize hiring him. Joey says, we should draft Travis Hunter. I don't think any quarterback this year is a home run. I think we should suck for another year for arch manning. Christine says, watching the Giants for 30 years back when they were ready to fire, build ourselves. Oh, yeah, no, for sure, Christine. And that's why I don't take it lightly. What I'm saying, it's just my belief based on my information and my takeaways of the team. But certainly, obviously, if you feel differently, then, you know, that's your prerogative and you see something else in the team. So the commander is 17, 14 and half over the Steelers. Interesting. Dable had on glasses and still couldn't see how bad Jones is and unprepared this team is no excuse losing the Carolina, no excuse to me. Exactly, no excuse. Mike says, Pat, the lighting on your face seems excessively bright. That's because I'm bringing light to the conversation about the Giants and about the truth. Sorry, that was cheesy. Let's see. Looks like we got another super chat in the queue here. We got another couple. And four says, this is on Joe Shane. If Sequan or Xavier McKinney got traded at the deadline, then we would have Drake May or Jaden Daniels right now. Shane was wrong and arrogant. Yup. And they end the Giants thought that they were a good team last year and they were not. All right, guys, this has been an awesome chat. I want to remind you who our sponsors are here. 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So if you want anything answered that I didn't answer yet, please purchase a super chat or super sticker now, otherwise going to go into wrap up here. But super chat or super sticker drop those in now if you want your question or comment answered before I take off. Also, please, while we are live, if you didn't already hit the like button while we are live, that really helps engagement helps us grow the podcast here on the Believe Network. We are brought to you here as well by a state 98 coffee, especially coffee concentrate. Perfect for when you want to make a cup of coffee and skip the lines, it takes me less than 10 seconds to make it delicious estate 98 iced or hot coffee. It's great as a mixer for espresso martinis. And each bottle can make up to 16 cups. Go to estate 98.com backslash talking ball to get an exclusive offer for 80% off your first order. All right, let's see. What do we got here? All right, looks like one more question here on the super chats and super stickers. For those of you who had questions near the end of this chat that I didn't get to, I am planning on I'll let you guys know on Twitter, on X on social media, I'm planning to go live again tomorrow, Monday, November 11th at night to talk more about the upcoming press conference with Joe Shader where things stand. But Joel says, do you expect any coaching changes during the buy? I don't know how you couldn't make a coaching change after this. I really don't. I don't know how you couldn't make a general manager change after this. I really don't. Taking John Marad his word, there's no changes coming during the season. So John Marad said that. And that's what he said. So based on his comment, there won't be. But I think that there's a chance there will be this is no one has told me this. I have gotten texts from some people I trust who have said that I'm right, that they both have to go that are, I would say, you know, sources I trust and inform informed people in football. They're not people who would make the decision though. So that's what I would say. But thank you so much for being here. This has been talking about live with Pat Leonard on the Believe Network here on the YouTube channel, PL on NFL, hit those like buttons, subscribe, rate and review. And if you're on Apple or Spotify listening on audio, please subscribe to the YouTube channel and come join us next time live in person on the YouTube channel here. Thank you so much for being here. Unfortunately, another Giants loss too innate at the buy week as the Giants limp into the buy with an operation in regression and in complete disarray. Take care. We're recording now. So it's live. Go ahead. Pick on me the way that you want to. Did I say that? I would say that to my son and I mean, come on, man, just go. This isn't CBS. All right. Be quiet for a few seconds. Why would people want to listen to the Sims complete podcast? Well, a couple of things. One, if you like to see sons pick on their father, this might be the place. If you want to see a place where the father just kicks he out of his son, this will be the place. What do you like about it, Matt? Ditto father, son dynamic duo talking about the game of football that we love and share and appreciate together. And you know, hey, it's an extension of what we did right growing up. I was able to watch my father play football, then obviously watch him as a broadcaster. And then he taught me the game of football and share the wisdom that he learned throughout his playing career. And you know, hey, sometimes we're full of it. And sometimes we're, we actually know a thing or two. Well, we do do a lot of research. At least I do. I'm you, you little spotty, but you know, you're, you hang in there. It's fun. I love doing this and it's been awesome. Sims complete. Check us out wherever your podcasts are available on the Believe Network. Appreciate it. See you. If you liked the show, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. It really does help the show to grow. Thank you for listening. (audience cheering) [BLANK_AUDIO]
New York Daily News NFL columnist Pat Leonard breaks down the Giants' 20-17 international overtime loss to the Carolina Panthers in Munich, Germany, immediately after the final whistle @Bleav.