There are lots of good reasons to get far away from something. If a dog is growling, get away. If an old acquaintance tells you they've got a great business opportunity for you to share with all your friends on social media, get very, very far away. And if something smells sulphur-y or like rotten eggs, you should definitely get away. That smell could mean there's a natural gas leak, and those are dangerous. If you smell a rotten eggs or sulphur odor, get far away and then call 911. Learn more at excelenergy.com/safety. CIDP is no walk in the park. It can make your daily routine feel not so routine. The good news? Now there's a new treatment option for chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy that may fit into your routine. Discover more at innovationforcidp.com and talk to your doctor. That's innovationforcidp.com. Brought to you by Argenics. Stay up to date on the latest in music with Sound Up with Mark Goodman and Alan Light. Join the Sound Up Pod Squad simply by liking our Facebook, following us on X, and signing up for our weekly newsletter at SoundUpPod.com. This is Sound Up with Mark Goodman and Alan Light, the only music podcast that matters. Hey, it's Mark Goodman. And I'm Alan Light. This week on Sound Up on the Rob Sheffield joins us for a Taylor Swift deep dive as we discuss whose brand new book Heartbreak is the national anthem of Taylor Swift's reinvented pop music. I'm extra excited because later this week I am headed off to Toronto to get one more era's tour show in before it's done so perfect timing to talk to Rob about his new book. Plus, we've got the latest on the Grammy nominations. Chapel Rowan parts ways with management on the heels of those Grammy nominations. And Zach Bryan in a little bit of trouble this week. This plus our new music picks of the week and listener reviews of David Gilmore and The Cure Live. And our next show, this is Big Stuff. Our next show, recorded live with you, the Sound Up Faithful. It's almost here Wednesday night, November 13th, 9 p.m. Eastern. Join us as we talk about the Grammy nominations. And one of this year's biggest topics, ticket prices and ticket access. That Sound Up episode featuring you, if you show up, you, the Sound Up Pod Squad will be available November 19th, more details and to sign up, go to sounduppod.com. We eagerly await seeing you on Wednesday night, November 13th, 9 p.m. Eastern. Come on board, bring us your thoughts and welcome Mark Goodman back to the, I'm sorry for the country that you returned to, but back to the country of origin following his visit to Mexico for the sands. Indeed, I could not have had a better week to be out of the country. It was insanity. And you know what? The sands in Cancun, Mexico are yearly getaway. I think pretty much everybody felt like that. There was no politics. There was no this versus that or this group versus that. It was all about amazing music. It was a killer lineup this year. I think one of their best lineups with stuff like Brett Michaels, Rick Springfield, the fix, level 42, lead a Ford, Billy Ocean. And that's just the beginning. In addition to that, I got a chance to sit down with young MC and smoke it to in years. Alumnus of my son's high school. That's always good. And as many people know, written some of the, the early biggest hits in hip hop for Tone Lok and others. So he's got some new music coming out. We chatted about, but in terms of the performances, which is, it's what it's all about. We go down there. Everybody goes down there to just get away and enjoy music and hang out and sort of relive your youth. The headliners, Rick Springfield, who totally brought it. He had his band with him. This was not another two dicks tour moment. He was out with Richard Marks and not him with the box and not him with the band in a box either. That's true. It was a full band. And as I've said, this is, and he admits this, this is his best band ever. And these guys, this group has been together, I want to say 10, 12, 14 years now at this point. They sound great. I will say before we came on here, each of us were talking about how sick we were about a week or so ago. And Rick brought his sickness to Cancun. I have been giving him kudos because I know how sick he actually was. He was hacking it, you know, as he was bleary. You know what you feel like when you have this thing that seems to have been going around. And yet he stepped on that stage and you would have never known it. The guy, 75 freaking years old, he's running around the stage and this is sick as a dog. So a great show, plus what he overcame, I think, made it an even better show. The other headliner, Brett Michaels, brought his party, brought 2.0 tour to Cancun. Now I have to say, I didn't understand. I thought it was Brett Michaels. He's out on tour. He's partying. Whatever. What the tour is for us in Cancun was Brett Michaels, of course, doing Brett's solo stuff, doing poison stuff. But then he brought out Mark McGrath. That's what the party is all about. Mark McGrath is showing up at a bunch of dates on the party tour and Mark did the Sugar Ray stuff and was bouncing off the walls. I never saw a guy with more energy. He was phenomenal. He loved him, he hung out after and was talking to everybody, the sweetest guy ever. And after Mark McGrath came out, Ben Lou Graham came out. So both are all part of the party-graw festival. And Lou also, you know, Lou sounded great. First time I got a chance to say hello and congrats since their induction into the rock haul. He was certainly pumped about all that. So that's, you know, as far as the headliners go, the band that I wanted to see the most, what I was looking forward to the most was level 42. I had never seen them back in the day. And although it's a slightly modified lineup, Mark King, the bassist, slapping some bass. He was slapping some bass. Amazing. Sounds great. He's the vocalist and bass player. And Mike Lindup, the original keyboard player, both still in the band. And that's what we needed. And they crushed it. I had a feeling that there were some people who were like, level 40, I think I know them. But by the end of their set, everybody was freaking out. I think they brought some new fans this time around. So they were great. The fix, a surprise, and one of the only bands I could think of in its original form from the 80s. It's intact. It's incredible. And they also just really brought it. Billy Ocean also on one of the nights just doing smooth as silk performance. The guy is 74 now, I believe, 73, 74. And once again, just the sweetest guy ever. And while the people at that age, he was moving on stage. He got the people up on their feet. It was a phenomenal week of great music, some surprises as well in terms of some people showing up. One of the surprises for me was a band called The Producers. Do any of you guys remember them? I know there's such a thing. I know there's a name. I couldn't give you a song. I can't give you anything. I'm the same as you. The producers was a band that we bang the hell out of in the first seven months of MTV. Why? Well, we only had like four videos. Something has to go on. That was two of them right there. But they were really fun. I didn't even know that they were together and they kind of are/aren't. They do maybe 15 or 20 dates a year. So it was fun to see those guys. And there was another band that you guys, maybe you remember, The Kings, Canadian band. Yeah. Switching a glad night for the weekend. And also, great fun to see. They played at the pool one day and just everybody hoisting their solo cups and everything. It was great. The final, just in terms of one special night that my pal downtown Julie Brown hosted on her own. The club MTV night with TETNOTRONIC, which totally rocked. They were cool. And Mary Jane, girls, and they just totally brought it. Annabelle Nguyen on another night from Bow Wow, singing oddly, singing to tape. But she still sounded great and looked wonderful. It was a great week and happy to be in Mexico. Anything notable about the crowd familiar faces, new faces? Well, part of the reason that I love doing this is because and it sounds hack and cliche. There are people who come year after year after year. And we know each other. We are friendly. I get to see these same people. They're my yearly friends that I get to bump into and hang with. And there is a big time overlap between this, I shouldn't say this, between this and the 80s cruise. Sure. Not a surprise. A lot of cruisers, so we get to talk about what the next cruise is going to be like. But you know, there's people, a lot of people who, this is the best thing they could possibly do. If I wasn't in this business, I would be them. I would be going to this thing. Never lose that. Never lose that. Right. That's a perennial fan. Did you get to hang out with our buddy Eddie Trunk on the, at the Sands? I did. Eddie, Eddie is a blast. Eddie does his show from the Sands every year when he comes down. Although he allowed us on the stage, you know, when Brett Michaels and I Brett Michaels was playing, he allowed us to come up and intro. But it was, it was really his night. Yeah. His domain. His, for sure, which is completely fine. I mean, his, Lita Ford played and, you know, he, he brought Lita on and she sounded fantastic. But he's great. And he, he had Rick Springfield on his show for like an hour and a half, I think, during the course of it while they were down there. He's a big, big power pop fan. I didn't realize that. You're right. Razz Berry's Rick Springfield, Ryan Adams. That's his lane right there. Because he's the guy that we have around Rock Hall. We have him, we've had him on the show and he just doesn't understand and he admits it. Nothing outside of metal. It's his lane. He knows it. He doesn't claim to know anything about anything else. And I found that out this weekend, this past week that he's a power pop guy. Yeah. He really is. Yeah. So, oh no, I just, I got to thank everybody for showing up. People were, were, were great. We had a great time. We're looking forward to next year. The Sands 2025, I will be talking about that there. They're making some inroads. Right now they have a lot of hip pop bands booked as they're trying to sort of move from not strictly 80s pop into 80s and 90s. That's why we have Mark McGrath this year. So we'll see. There's more to come. More to come. Great fun. Great fun. Excellent. Well, welcome back. And before we get to our conversation with our friend Rob Sheffield about his new book, Heartbreak is the national anthem dedicated to a close, deep dive, close look at the work of Taylor Swift. We do want to kind of get a few quick news stories in here. Now the first one, which is the biggest one of the week, we're going to get into more when we record our next episode with you guys on Wednesday night. But we should note that this past Friday, the 2025 Grammy nominations were announced. So let's just hit some of the big headlines and then we'll leave really the conversation for you guys. Beyonce, 11 nominations, there's different ways you slice this. I think it's the most nominations ever for one album. People have gotten more nominations, but it was for multiple projects in the same year or whatever it is. And this brings her up to 99 career Grammy nominations, which is astounding. Behind that, Charlie XCX, Billie Eilish, Kendrick Lamar, Post Malone, all had seven nominations, Sabrina Carpenter, Chapel Rohn and Taylor Swift, six nominations apiece, believe that Sabrina Carpenter and Chapel Rohn both nominated in all four of the big, the big four categories, album, record, song, and best new artists. I expect that either of them will run the table, but could possibly happen. And then there's other weird things like the Beatles now and then getting a nomination for record of the year, Andre 3000's flute album, getting a nomination for album of the year, Sabrina Carpenter and Krungbin both getting new artist nominations. I believe both for their seventh album. Yeah. I think sixth or seventh album, a piece. So, you know, Grammy's going to Grammy. There's always going to be some mysterious things happening. In general, look, this is kind of a dream year for the Grammys is what I would think, which is that the biggest pop records were sort of the biggest critical favorites and most talked about records of the year when it's Beyonce and Charlie XCX and Sabrina and Chapel Rohn and Taylor and Post Malone, like those were the big records. Those were the records everybody liked. And they get to, you know, throw all of them up there, that's not a hard year to do Grammy business. And everybody's talking about the fact and we should at least mention that oftentimes what is the bitch that has heard is women not being represented. And this is an amazing year for women. Yeah. And that's, I mean, the superstars and the biggest albums and the biggest stories attached to albums really was this wave of these pop stars, Beyonce record that has a lot of story and attention and talk and, you know, discussion around it. She did get a bunch of nominations in the country categories. So there's that the CMA's wouldn't do it, but the Grammys did it. So anyway, we look forward to getting into all of this stuff with you guys on Wednesday. What was the date? I blanked on the date the 13th at 9 p.m. While we're thinking Grammys, we mentioned Chapel Rohn just after she picked up six Grammy numbs, she has parted ways with her management team. It seems the timing from the outside looking in seems the timing is odd considering she's skyrocketed to fame, and you got to give some credit to the management on that, don't you? But Billboard says that Rohn split with her management group, State of the Art or Manager Nikki Babetsky, move that seemingly confirmed when State of the Art posted a congratulatory Instagram post to all of their Grammy nominees that excluded Chapel Rohn. Ouch. The double is talking that back in October, there were rumors that Rohn and State of the Art were on the outs. The rumors came just weeks after Rohn faced a pair of controversies related to her remarks about the presidential election and her last minute cancellation of the All Things Go festival. Things have gotten overwhelming over the past few weeks, and I'm really feeling it, she said at the time. I feel pressures to prioritize a lot of things right now, and I hate a few days to prioritize my health, soon after that the Every Single Album podcast dated that Rohn had fired the management team and the top music managers were now vying for her business, but neither the artist nor the management company ever have commented on that split, but up for six awards at the Grammys next year, 2025. It's been a complicated year for Chapel Rohn, skyrocketed to massive fame and celebrity, and clearly that caught up with her emotionally, I think physically, sort of where she sits in the world and presumably, you know, that rather than the success of the music is where any conflict with management would come, that it would sort of be around that extra musical stuff, because everything seems to be firing on all cylinders on the music side. Great performance on Saturday Night Live, we didn't have a chance to talk about that. Really great, premiered a new song that was great, everybody loved, so, you know, everything continues to point upwards, but as we've learned and spent a lot of time focusing on in recent years, you know, artists are trying to think a lot more and talk a lot more about everything else that celebrity requires of them, and it's purely speculation, but you have to think that if there's anything that led to a split with management, it would be from that side of our life. I guess so. It's pretty, I think, empowering for fans that so many artists are doing that, are being upfront about their struggles. I can't imagine, for me as a kid, if I would have been seeing that in an artist, I think would have been a huge, huge relief. Yeah, it's a tough balance. I mean, as we've said, it certainly is empowering and it does open up other possibilities, but also as we've seen specifically in her case, it can be frustrating for fans who want still want more and still want their stars to be stars and still want all the other stuff that maybe they don't want to give. I just hope she finds the right team moving forward because we've seen so many artists change management and either go in a totally different direction or go with family members and it's really messed things up a bit. Yeah, I think, I mean, we're talking, talk around it, a name conspicuously absent from the Grammy nominations this year is Duolipa. I'm a well-on-record as a huge fan of Duas, but when she switched management and her father took over leading into the recent The Radical Optimism Project, it does not feel like anything has gone right since then. And, you know, you got to do what you're, you got to do it, it's all chemistry. You've got to do what feels right, but there's very concrete results, there's very tangible results from those decisions. Right. This next story, holy cow, is that Brian? So this is, yeah, maybe it speaks to the people I hang out with, but this is the story that I've been hearing the most about from the music world in the last week. And, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of detail and a lot of play-by-play, but the short answer is that he broke up with his girlfriend of more than a year, Brianna La Poglia, known as Brianna Chicken Fry, in her... I can't. They have split and she has made significant allegations of emotional abuse during their relationship, said that she was offered $12 million and a New York apartment to sign an NDA about their relationship, which she refused. And all of this especially blew up because she is part of the Barstool Sports Empire. The Barstool, this kind of broke when the Barstool Sports guys made a disrecord about Zach Brian that they posted. Can you talk about the Barstool Sports, what that is? I have a big idea. It's just, it's a huge sort of, you know, empire of, you know, bro podcasting that started from sort of straight sports stuff and has continued to expand into more and more sports, more and more lifestyle, you know, really building an empire. And they got a lot of listeners and a lot of power and they came out hard with this track that sort of then led into all of these revelations. She appeared on the BFFs podcast with Dave Portnoy and Josh Richards and said the last year of my life has been like the hardest year of my life dealing with the abuse from this dude. I'm still scared right now because I'm scared of him. My brains rewired and I'm scared to make him mad. She said that he has made his previous girlfriend sign NDAs. They have taken the money. She said she turned that down, did not accept any money. I will not accept any money. I think that's beneath me. It's not just for me. It's for anyone who's been emotionally abused, for people who are being emotionally abused right now, for people who don't have a support system like I was lucky enough to have. She talked about him going nuts because he disapproved of her dress at the Golden Globe Awards, ruined my birthday, ruined my tour, smashed her phone, screaming at her friends, saying you're not going to be anything. You're just losers. He just completely out of nowhere when Zach gets in that zone. There's no containing it. So this was a relationship that was made public July 2023, dated for over a year before splitting up. She says, I didn't even recognize myself anymore. I lost 15 pounds. I didn't have to lose in the relationship. I don't sleep. I was completely isolated from my family, from my friends, from work. He just took me out of my life. It was awful and I stayed because I was stuck and I loved the dude. I kind of blame myself. Like, why did I stay? There's no answer. It's crazy. Zach Bryan, in the meantime, released two new songs last week, not really addressing this, but certainly trying to seem like trying to get ahead of an argument here. And also made an announcement that he's going to take some time off and go get his master's degree in Paris and step back from music for a while. This is as much as we have heard. Is that significant timing? One wonders? One wonders. I'm going to go get my master's degree and staying out of the US. Go to Paris is interesting because, you know, Sturgel Simpson basically moved to Paris when he stepped out of things and his new album is sort of returning, but it's very much about his time. And so I don't know if that has anything to do with anything. I'm making that up, but Sturgel obviously a big, you know, voice in that world. But let's just say that Zach Bryan, the females, Zach Bryan fans, I know, and I know some of them well, and I know some of them who are really into it are pissed. The word that's coming into my mind because we have talked about this guy and how important he is and what a writer and it's I feel betrayed. You know what I mean? That this guy is going to be this kind of asshole. I believe the victim. She turned down money, I believe her. Yeah, I don't. I mean, he's he has not spoken out to deny anything. He's just not spoken to it. Yeah. You know, she's giving very specific and very extensive examples of what she's talking about. It doesn't sound like they're physically abusive or criminal, but it just sounds like, you know, from her account to be in an asshole. There's a great tradition of great artists who have done that before. He's hardly the first. But you know, look, he's very much staked his thing on being totally independent, not signing with a label, doing everything outside the box and on his rules. And you know, maybe that's as much about this kind of controlling thing as it is about, you know, whatever sort of oppositional issues are in there, but it's disturbing to read. It's it's really sad to hear this stuff. I hope, you know, I hope that she's okay. I'm not going to say, I hope it's not true. I mean, I hope it's not true. But like you, there's no reason to not listen to her here. Right. You don't offer $12 million just because you're being an ass. There's more you don't want out, you know, and her saying that he's done this before, right, that he's paid off previous relationships to not talk about those relationships that that's a pattern. Exactly. So it's a troubling story. And it is ongoing. Yes. This guy was just on the cover of Rolling Stone with Bruce Springsteen, you know, and fill it be like I'm telling the blues was abusing women. Same thing. It's tough, but it's this is like wildfire out in the yeah, in the in the internet world. So and I guess this would be one to say to be continued or not, or maybe she said what she's had to say. He's gonna, you know, quietly shut down for a while and he doesn't do interviews anyway. He's done one interview in his life. He doesn't do press anyway. So but there has been and I know in this story, there's no mention, but there's no report of of some any charges being filed or anything like that. This was just a press release. Well, it was the mostly this interview that she did with the bar stool with her associates. Yes. Okay. All right. We mentioned it at the top. Swifties gather. Swifties assemble as well. Rob Sheffield is next with our deep dive into Taylor Swift. The pop phenomenon next on sound up. Building a business may feel like a big jump, but on deck small business loans can help keep you afloat with lines of credit up to 100,000 dollars in term loans up to 250,000. On deck lets you choose the loan that's right for your business. As a top rated online small business lender, on deck's team of loan advisors can help you find the right business loan to fit your needs. Visit on deck.com for more information. Depending on certain loan attributes your business loan may be issued by on deck or selfie bank. On deck does not land in North Dakota. All loans and amounts object to lender approval. Get us into the net level iPhone 16 pro con AT&T next up anytime is como la primera vez que te saliobe en la salsa pican te de mama ho hoof el pican te perfecto la consistent sia y de al o como cono esistel por sola de tutio. O incluso cono preprastia la perfect sion el famos o flan de la voila con AT&T next up anytime pueda sentil te si una yotra vez. Descovere como tener el muevo iPhone 16 pro con camera control and AT&T. Y el ultimo iPhone cada hano con AT&T next up anytime la ferta de cero dola respo de nuestar de sponible en futuro siphones la función next up anytime pueda des continuars en quelquer memento su hetoa cambios apli concargos termino ser estrixiones. Bissita atte te pun to com de gona iphone para maz de ta jes. All right, all right, all right. Welcome back to sound up. It's Mark Goodman and Alan Light. We have a very special guest. We're really excited to talk to our old pal Rob Sheffield. This guy has been covering music, television, and pop culture for Rolling Stone since 1997. In fact, his first issue had Tory Spelling on the cover so long ago that was. He's the New York Times best-selling author of five books, including Love as a mixtape, Talking to Girls About Duran Duran, Turn Around Bright Eyes, On Bowie, and Dreaming the Beatles, one of our favorites around here. His latest release, a deep dive into the pop phenomenon that is Taylor Swift. In Heartbreak is the national anthem, Sheffield Chronicles, how Taylor Swift has made fans, foes, and even journalists part of her story. Rob Sheffield, welcome to sound up. Mark, so good to see you, Alan. So good to see you. You know, I got my whole music education mark watching you, so. Oh, well, that's good. So then in that case, I'm getting paid back, right? A big time. Absolutely. You are a massive fan. You've written incredible books on the Dreaming the Beatles. I could go on. What is different about Taylor Swift for you? You're not a 14-year-old girl. Very true. So in some ways. Spoiler, spoiler. Yeah. But maybe, you know, maybe. Where do you connect with Taylor Swift and what is it? Like, why, why write this book? I wanted to write something about her that wasn't about celebrity, wasn't about image, wasn't about fashion. Definitely not about her boyfriends. I don't care about her boyfriends. It's really weird that for the first 10 years she was famous, people were always writing about her boyfriends. Which song is this about? Which song is that about? I have no idea. I don't give a rat's ass. I haven't seen any of their movies. I'm not, I can't tell the Jonas Brothers apart. It's a thing where that was the level of discourse about Taylor Swift where it seemed to me that she was starting off on the career that she has indeed followed through on where she's in the pantheon of those all-time grades. To me, you know, my last couple books are about Bowie and the Beatles. To me, she's on the same level as someone building that kind of historic career. You've written so much about Taylor over the years. You and I have spent so much time talking about Taylor over the years, including your ever-evolving, ever-updating ranking of every Taylor Swift song, every single one, that has to be revisited with alarming frequency because of her productivity. You know, once you decided to take this project on how did you determine, okay, this is the Taylor stuff I want to write about here. I know that she's rattling around in your brain so frequently, you know, how did you sort of wrestle it into what you wanted to do with this between these covers? Well, I wanted to talk about what she does musically, especially with her as somebody who has her entire life been super obsessed with music. That's something I love about her. Compared to the average pop star or the average famous lifer musician, she is a geek, geek, geek, geek. And that is something I love about her. She always has been. There's this great clip of her. I mentioned it in the book. She's 16. It's one of her first interviews on the radio. And the guy is saying, okay, so I noticed your lyric booklet. You've got some capital letters on the lyric sheet. Some of the letters are capitalized. And of course, we know that those are the secret messages for each song in the lyrics. She capitalizes random letters. They seem random. But if you just take the capitalized letters, she's spelling out secret messages. So the secret message of cheer drops on my guitar is date. Nice boys, stuff like that. And she's planting in the lyrics sheets. These little like, and she explains to the introvert. Well, the Beatles used to do this stuff on their 60s records, like the wide album and Abbey Road, where if you played it backwards, you got a secret message, like Paul is dead or something like that. And it blows my mind. She's a 16 year old country singer. Nobody's asking her to do stuff like this. And she is already aiming for that level of geek detail. And she said to this interviewer, also, I just love the idea of hers, this teenage country singer explaining to this guy what the Beatles did. And she's saying, you can't spin CDs backwards. So this is what I do to plant those secret things in for the fans who want to pay attention. And she's kept doing that in her entire career. But even at the very beginning, she was a geek. It's part of why I relate. Well, one of those, I don't know what you call that one of those quirks. One of those little, you know, fascinations is, and you devote a chapter to it. Track five. Track five. Yes. I have to say, until I read the book, I wasn't, I didn't really click track five. But once you started laying it out, I was like, Oh, damn. Track five is such a tradition on Taylor albums. The track five is the one where the real like emotional bloodbathery occurs. And it became this tradition that track five was always the one you had to be really scared of. And my favorite track five, I think everybody's favorite track five is on the album, Red. The song All Too Well, which is one of the central songs in the book, because it's the central song in Taylor's story, as far as I'm concerned, that it's not just the ultimate track. And of course, it had to be chapter five in the book that I noticed. I told my publisher, the book needs a track five. And it has to be all too well. But this is a song that, you know, she wrote when she was 22 about being 20. You know, you know, how when you're 22, you think you're so much older and wiser than you were when you were 20, just like when you were 20, you thought you were so much older wiser than you were when you were 19. God help me like we're all there. And she's 22 writing this song looking back. And the song that she thought was finished. And she just did not, she didn't like playing the song live because it brought back to me painful memories. And yet people kept wanting her to go back to this story because Taylor mentions in an interview that it originally began with a 10 minute draft that she edited down to this song. And of course, she must have wished so many times that she kept her mouth shut about that. But so this is a song that she goes back later in her 30s and rewrites expands with those last verses. But it also feels like an adult looking back on being young, a young adult looking back on being a very young team. It's really the story of her life. Well, yeah, what's evident, I mean, what's evident in the book, what's evident in the pages, but what's evident, I think to anybody who pays attention is she does not one thing by accident. That is true. Every single thing is intentional. Every single thing is there to be puzzled over, figured out, you know, it'll explode somewhere years down the line. But it was there all along. Is this a thing you're writing for other fans who are going to understand that who are going to get okay, the track five chapter has to be chapter five. And there's got to be a bridge that happens in this book where you do the 13 songs that one way or another influenced or got us to Taylor. Do people who don't fully get the Taylor thing think that's just nuts? What was in your head trying to figure out who you were putting this out there for? Well, I definitely didn't want this to be just for people who already love Taylor. I want this for people who are maybe curious, like, what is all this hysteria about? She's got a couple good songs. She's a marketing genius. That's what people, that's always their dismissive back anti-coming. But she's a marketing genius. To my perspective, a lot of people are marketing geniuses and only one of them wrote all too well. You know what I mean? Lots of people are really good at playing the music biz and cross-promotion and synergy and everything. Only one of those people wrote new romantics. So to me, I wanted to do justice to her weirdness for people who maybe were wondering what all the fuss was about. And I had those readers in mind when I was writing this. The person who thinks, you know, wow, my daughters are really into this music. Is this just because it's the latest thing, even after 18 years, people still wonder that with her. But I just want to bring the music to people who wouldn't necessarily get it already. Well done. I got to mention we were talking about all too well. I just want to pop back to that for a second. It is, you know, I guess that's her, you know, stairway to heaven. But I mean, the point of this book is what an amazing talent, what an amazing songwriter. And for me, a couple of the best lines I have ever heard in my life, and you call me up again just to break me like a promise. So casually cruel in the name of being honest. Oh, holy crap. Right? I know. That's a breakup song. Yes. Unbelievable. I love this. That is, it gets me, I mean, right now I'm kind of tearing up thinking about it. She'd known for doing things like this. She writes these deeply personal autobiographical songs. Can you talk about how her relationships feed her writing and how this translates to the fans? It's not, it's like this obsession with them, the relationship between the songs and the music, but specifically the relationships, the boyfriends. Again, that's something that, because she was a teenage girl when she started him, because she had so many boyfriends and there was this fascination with the boyfriends that her fans had. And that was an aspect of the fandom that I could never personally relate to. I mean, honestly, I never gave a damn about teenagers loves lives, even when I was a teenager, you know what I mean? So it was always funny to me when I would read an interview. I remember when a magazine put her on the cover and Taylor says early on, she's like, I hope this isn't just about my boyfriends because I want to talk about my music and everything. And of course, the entire article is just about her boyfriends who goes with what song. And I'm like, okay, I get that for some of her audience that's part of the appeal. I cannot tell her boyfriends apart. They're all these, you know, how many of these Hollywood pretty boys am I supposed to keep in mind? Luckily, there's so many other things for you to focus on. Exactly, exactly. We've all got lives. I really wanted to stress that you do not have to know or care anything about her personal life at all to be into her music. I want to ask, I talked a couple of weeks, a couple of episodes ago on the show, you were gracious enough to help me out once again and come judge a Taylor Swift karaoke night down benefiting the Housing Works organization. And you know, you and I said it throughout the night, how struck we were the degree of intensity that these folks brought to that performance. I do keep thinking about it. I mean, I do keep thinking about my God, what it is that these songs mean to these people that they were not, this was not I'm going to get up and sing the hits and it's going to be fun. This was, she wrote this song that is something I need to get up and sing. That was what that felt like all night long. It was amazing. Yes. I mean, there's never fully an answer to this, but what is that? What is the thing? I'm not asking for the grand unified Taylor theory, although maybe I am of what is it that creates such a powerful relationship that's beyond these are pop songs that's beyond I like to dance to them or I like to sit in my room and listen to them. Yeah, it's almost all consuming in a way. How did that what happened? It was there from the very beginning. She writes these songs that are very personal, very quirky, her very extreme and eccentric personality traits are often very visible, but she writes these personal songs that nonetheless feel universal in such a wide range of people hear themselves in them. You know, I didn't go to high school with these songs. You know what I mean? When she talks about, you know, her having her first kiss in Fearless, many decades after my first kiss, and these weren't songs that I grew up being broken hearted to or having crushes to. And yet, these songs, they feel like they're about me. And that's a very across the board response to Taylor Swift's music is she writes these really particular songs that you hear yourself in, even if you're not in the particular scene. So there's a great part during the era's tour. She's about to do Fearless. And I remember like seeing this with you, Alan, like that amazing night Memorial Day weekend, 2023. And she's coming to do the Fearless song. So she says, "New Jersey! Are you ready to go back to high school with me?" And I screamed loud enough to pop an eardrum. And I did not go to high school with those songs. By the time Taylor was born, I was in grad school. I was already in the tortured poets department. I was already, you know, in a PhD program. I did not go to high school with those songs, but I screamed. And so did, you know, the girls next to me who are like eight years old. When Taylor sings a song about high school, we are all in that high school highway, even if it's not like anything we experienced in real life. But I think I know, I know what Alan is asking. I mean, there's plenty of artists who do that, you know, but they don't inspire what she seems to inspire. Not to this scale, not to this magnitude. And not over and over and over again. I mean, we know the only harder thing than becoming a teen star is then evolving to become a older than teen star. Yes, absolutely. And yet she's done it. I think because she was already this adult when she started. But honestly, in so many ways, and Alan, when you were talking about the people saying, "This is not a hit song. This is not one to dance to. This is the story of my life in one song." The analogy, and it comes up a lot in the book is Bruce Springsteen, is that in so many ways, and from the very beginning, when she was doing these songs, I was like, "This is Bruce Springsteen reincarnated as a 17-year-old girl." You know, she doesn't sound like fearless, which is literally about like driving around in the night with like someone and then like you pull over and dancing a parking lot because your song's on the right. And it's like, oh my god, like this is the most shameless Spring Steenery. And it's done absolutely right. It's done in a way that is absolutely authentic to that Spring Sea Spirit. And it really is a thing where you go and you see her live and she'll bust out a deep cut as a surprise song, and people sing it like they're singing the river, you know, or something like that or racing in the streets. The analogy is between her and Springsteen or so intense. I don't know if you want to go here, but let's. Did you see the the the doc on with Scooter Braun and that situation? Taylor Swift versus Scooter Braun, Bad Blood was the name of the doc. Yeah. Yeah. It's two episodes and it presents, for those who haven't seen it, each side of the story. What did you think of that and did your opinion about the story change and what is it? I mean, to me, the interesting thing about the story is the fact that she announces in public that she doesn't like who owns her music right now. So she's going to re-record her entire albums. Now, I don't think there's a single person anywhere near the music world who seriously believed she was going to follow through in that thread, for sure. And nobody now wants to admit that they doubted. It's kind of like nobody wants to admit that they booed Bob Dylan when he went to electric. More than it would be as successful as each of them are. Yes. Who would have imagined? Honestly, I thought there's no possible way she'll do this. There's what a waste of time, what a waste of energy, what a waste of money. She's at the peak of her career. The idea that she's going to re-record her entire life's work in her spare time just seemed unthinkable to me. And yet she followed through on it and not only did it, but made each one of these re-releases, re-records, Taylor's versions, an event in itself. They were great, but what about the issue? What this was about, where she claims that her masters were sold out from under her, that she was not contacted, that she didn't have a chance to get in on this deal, that she really wanted to. That's what her side, her episode says. Scooter's episode says absolutely the opposite, that she was contacted, that she did know, and that she had the opportunity. And now she's just creating drama. It's not all that different in so many ways from what happened to the Beatles, right? In 1969, when Dick James sells off their publishing to Lou Grade, and there's forever controversy over whether the Beatles even had a chance to make a bid or not. And the fact that Dick James did this while John was literally on his honeymoon, sort of makes it seem like maybe bad faith on his part. Paul was also out of the country, but it's a thing where, to me, the really interesting thing about it, I mean, artists versus record companies, artists versus the suits, that's a timeless battle. To me, the way that she responded to it, artistically, is the really fascinating part, and that she proposed this ridiculously ambitious project that nobody had done before for very good reason. It would have been absolutely like, imagine like when Neil Young was beefing with David Geffen if he said, "You know what? I'm just going to remake all my old albums, everyone that I've ever made from scratch." The fact that she did that is insane for sure, and the fact that they each were successful, the fact that she, you know, I don't want to say improved, she modified them. As a music supervisor, we look for that stuff. You know, when somebody's publishing expires, they'll go back into the studio and rerecord their hits, and they'd never sound the same, but she managed to do this and make this a thing that kids understood, a thing that young artists understood. Yeah, she made this something where people felt emotionally invested in the project itself, and it is really amazing to see, especially like little kids who don't know that much about the music business, but they really like the idea of her doing this. Well, it's everything Prince wanted to do, but people thought that he was insane, and she does it, and people get what the issues are, what the questions are, what a future might look like. She found a way to frame that by pulling it off in this entirely unlikely way. So, sort of from coming from that image, we're at the end of the era's era. Now, looking at the final stop, the week that your book comes out, I'm headed to Toronto to see one of the Toronto dates. That is the second to last stop, then Vancouver will close it out. Oh my gosh. Anybody else in the world, you would say, she's going to go away for a long time. I don't think Taylor is capable of that. What do you think happens when they pack up the last night of the tour? It's so funny. I've looked into the eyes of people who say, "Ah, she's tired, she's been working so hard. Now she's going to want some me time." I'm like, "Are you new here? How long have you been following the Taylor Swift scheme?" Where have you been? She has no interest in me time. Her idea of me time is getting back to work. That's what she lives for. That's what she obsesses over. Honestly, the fact that she made the Torture Poets Department this two-hour album in her spare time while on the era's tour is just mind-blowing and wrong. Quite frankly, that's just not how it's supposed to operate. No gas of what she dives into once she's off the road. You know, it could be her Scott album. It could be her POCA album. It could be Taylor Swift's sing standards. Maybe she'll write standards. She'll say, "You know, I think Cold Porter didn't do it quite well enough, so I'm going to write my Cold Porter song. I'm going to write my Gershwin song. I could totally see her doing something like that. What I can't see her doing is nothing because she just never does nothing. Believe me, as someone who's been writing a book about her, I would love it if she had maybe decided earlier this year to maybe take some time off and not do so much. Yes. Boy, that would have made my job easier, but she makes it exhausting to be a fan. And that's something I love about her, that of all the people I've been a fan of, my entire life is a music fan. Nobody's been more exhausting and exasperating and maddening than Taylor Swift. That's a quote from your book. I was going to read a bit longer quote, but you say many people find Taylor infuriating and exhausting. So does she. Yes. Honestly, like Alan, I grew up a Dylan fan in the 80s. Being a teenage Dylan fan in the 80s was a very trying emotional experience. Oh, yeah. He asked a lot of us. We gave a lot to him that we'll never get back. It was a traumatizing time to be a teenage Bob Dylan fan. And yet that was a walk in the park compared to being a fan of Taylor Swift and thinking that she's on a groove to go this way. And she goes that way. So even at the Grammy Awards this year, she's about to win a Grammy, a historic Grammy. She's about to become the first artist in history to win Album of the Year four times, breaking a record set by Paul Simon, Stevie Wonder, and Frank Sinatra, not bad company. And all anybody wants is to see her accept that rest on that laurel. Say, thank you, go home. No, she announces a new album right there at the podium. Who does that is completely insane. And yet that's the kind of insanity that she is. She's made her life's work in terms of the who does that. You started at the top saying you've written books about Bowie. You wrote Dreaming the Beatles, which every excuse I get to talk about how great that book is I do. You know, you take in swings at like that beyond Hall of Fame level career. She's 18 years in and she's 34 years old. We know Paul's still out there at 82. She's got 50 years in front of her if she wants. Yes. How do we think about the career achievement? She's not that far away from us having rock and roll Hall of Fame conversations, right? Things that just seem like that can't possibly be true when you look at her next to those, you know, world changing artists like that. Obviously, she belongs in that company. But what do you, what's the compare and contrast next to those kinds of artists? It's well, because so many of those artists, they've kept long careers, but they hit serious dry spells. And it's often around the 17 or 18 year mark, which is kind of funny. If you compare her to somebody like Bruce Springsteen, who 18 years after his first album, what was he doing? He was in his human town, Lucky Touch era, or human touch, Lucky Town, who I like it better that way, right? Yeah, who can even tell those? Even the most hardcore springsteen apologists are not going to claim that's his highest work. You know, 18 years in for Bob Dylan, he was in his, you know, shot of love period. He was wearing a lot of mascara and a lot of shoulder pads. It wasn't the greatest time for Bob Dylan. Look, a lot of these people would say hit the 17 or 18 year mark. You know, Prince was on emancipation. There's some good stuff on that. I really like his version of If Only God Was One of Us on that album. But some of these are after a bunch of ups and downs already. Yes, exactly. It's not like that's, we've already been through comeback. You know, you can look at the stones and maybe, you know, they're a tattoo, you wish. Okay, but that's after everybody had written them off for a bunch of years. Yeah, like they're in the middle of a back from the brink thing, which, you know, is a totally different scenario. Yes. And she's still just creating these absurdly lofty challenges for herself that nobody's asking her to do. Just like nobody was asking her to remake her entire songbook, you know, in her spare time over a few years, where she is not coasting. She doesn't take a year off. She doesn't repeat herself. She's not spinning her wheels. And yet she's at her peak of commercial and cultural clout. And she's still writing those songs that, as we were saying before, we hear these songs and you grab some of these songs and you're like, this is my life. This is my story. Like, that's the kind of song book she's been creating from the very beginning. Right in line with that. And I think maybe another Springsteen comparison for me is, I look forward to these next 50 years. I look forward. I mean, I'm an old dude already. I wish I had 50 years to grow old with Taylor, you know, in the same way that I have loved getting older with Bruce, you know, he goes from the bar Bruce, you know, the Jersey Shore Bruce to the Bruce that we have today. It's a long, long journey that I have loved being on with him. I think the same thing for Taylor, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. The same kind of thing. And we look at the way Springsteen embraces all his different errors. There's a show I went to in Met Life Stadium. It was August 2016 and he did three nights, four hours a piece. And the third night he started off doing songs from the 73-74 era. And at some point, two hours into the show, Andy Green, my illustrious Rolling Stone colleague in Springsteen, he turns to me and he's like, you realize he's been playing for two hours and he hasn't done a single song past 1975. And he's like, what if he's just going to keep going in chronological order and we're all going to be here for the next 48 hours? I'm in. I'm in too, exactly. And that's the kind of future I see for her. She's building that kind of legendary songbook and she's, I mean, she's built it. She's just adding to it at this point. It is the beauty of what the eras tour accomplished, which was to fully catch up. These four albums worth of stuff she hadn't toured illustrate the body of work. She can go wherever she wants now. Yeah, that's the amazing achievement of what this run has been. Absolutely. That's really exactly true, especially like, you know, like you said, 34 and I'm certainly young age. I keep thinking, you know, Alan, we were talking about that karaoke contest that we did. It was such an intense experience to see, like you said, people were not doing the hits. They were not doing like, yeah, this is the one that you heard at a wedding this weekend. This is not the one you heard on the radio, right? Like, they're going for these super deep cups and they are doing them to death. Remember when that woman was singing the smallest man who ever lived, which is a fairly low profile song on torture poets, and she starts off, she's really hushed and we're sitting there wondering, is she okay? Because she's feeling this really deeply. And by the end, she's like on the floor. Oh, screaming on her back. Yes, screaming on her back. And her second point, she calls upon the audience with the other people at this Taylor karaoke night to join in. And people just rise to their feet and sing and like March, as I said to Alan, it was like in Casablanca, where they sing the Mercedes. Call to arms, man. Yes. And people were doing songs that people recognized right away. Someone did one of the 1989 vault tracks. Is it over now? And it was really funny. Everybody knew their part to sing and just the level of audience intensity and also audience support. And that's something that is really noticeable and has always been noticeable about a Taylor Swift show is that people are very welcoming and supportive and loving. I went to the eras tour. I just, I got off the bus. I took the bus from Port Authority. I'm walking through the parking lot. And one of the first things I was there for like not even a minute and somebody puts a friendship bracelet on my hand, Betty's cardigan. And I was like, wow, this is just such a beautiful, I mean, this is, this is what a grateful dead crowd is like, sorry to be bringing in. I'm bringing all these classic rock comparisons. I'm sorry, my Gen Xness is showing here. But it really is like a dead community kind of thing. So much grateful deadness and Taylor to the point where people are like, yeah, what night was that? When I did you see that show? Ah, she busted out this one. Secret song on which night, which, you know, you described in the book watching the security guard trading friendship bracelets with the girls next to you. Like that vibe. Yeah. Yeah, that vibe. Roger, so I had a question and it's probably more for both you, Alan and you were up because you are so clearly in the tank deep, deep in this, you know, like you were saying, you know, she's gonna be 35 in December. She does tortured poets kind of clears the deck there of everything that was kind of laying around does this errors tour, you know, and we've talked a lot about what you think she may do next. But as a fan, what do you want her to do next? What do you want the next Taylor album tour product to be? Me selfishly, I'm always waiting for her to make her all out rock album. I was gonna say metal, but yeah. Well, metal is not far away. There's this great clip on the internet going around that you can find where she does this version of we are never ever getting back together with a rock band and she does a full on punk rock version of it. It is absolutely balls to the wall. It is so hardcore, so head banging. And she is so into this performance of this song. She loves doing it this way. And she's never done an album like that. And I watched that clip over and over again of her just rocking the hell out of we are never ever getting back together. I was like, yeah, I gotta find that. It's so good. So I'm gonna speak now gets right up against it. Yes, it's in there. Yes. Well, like the story of us, which is practically a Ramon song, even to the port where like she says, you know, like second chapter, you know, or like third chapter, it's like doing Ramon saying second verse same as the first, but for Taylor, understand that I have many, many, many times tried to predict what Taylor would do next. And I've been wrong. 100% of the damn time. I've never once guessed right. So but this is my selfish. This is number one of my wish list is Taylor just does her flat out punk rock banging her head against the wall screaming album. As we let you go, Rob, this is an amazing book. As you say, whether you're a Taylor fan or not, it is a great, great read. My question, because I have this feeling and maybe I'm wrong, as revealing as she is, as into her fans as she is, as connective as she is. And I feel like we don't really know this woman. There's a part of her that she does not reveal. Yes. And it's fascinating to me that for someone who is so let it all hang out in terms of her emotional life and her songs, she's always written these songs that go deep into parts of her personality that I wince and I cringe when I hear them because some of those traits I share and I hide them completely. And so it's always funny how she will take, you know, some of the least likable elements of her personality and she'll say, here's an entire song about it. I just completely love that. And yet there's so much about her that she keeps hidden and so much of that is that drive of hers. I was going to say you look at the evidence only. Yes. That Captain Ahab like drive. Yes. There's this insane part in the Eris tour. This comes maybe, I think, three hours into the tour. This is after the surprise songs and there's that little pool that opens out on the stage. Alan and I have talked about this is completely insane that she does this and then she dives into the pool. It's something that seems to me watching it as I've watched it in the show and in the movie. This to me seems like an incredibly dangerous stunt for her to do. It's a very athletic stunt for her to do. She is diving and it is at a point in the show where absolutely nobody is asking her to do this absolutely high risk, high energy, just like really like physically demanding stunt that half the crowd won't even see. It's just this bizarre thing. She's got this Captain Ahab like drive to keep topping herself when it would be very easy for her to just keep doing what she does and that would be more than good enough. That would have been easy 12 years ago when she made red. I thought red. I was like, wow, she's perfected the country rock pop mellow Laurel Canyon like Nashville sort of aesthetic. She could make this album the rest of her life. I hope she does. I assume she does. It didn't occur to me that she wouldn't because you know would be insane not to and yet her next album had no banjos, no steel guitars. It was called 1989. It was inspired by 80s new wave synth pop, the kind that I grew up listening to. I was like, okay, Taylor decided to make a patch up boys album. This makes no sense at all. There's so much about her that we won't understand I think ever and so much of it is there that drive of her. That's the thing that I from the first time I met her and I know you say the same was she's so attuned to that audience where they are and where they're going. She knows where they're going to be six months from now. They don't know that. She knows what they need from her next time and she hasn't missed and she hasn't missed doing that. And I've never seen anybody with a tuning fork or whatever it is. You know, there's nothing between her and them. There's no other machine. There's nobody pushing any other buttons. That is what's inside of her. And that's the thing that's not definable, not containable, not explainable. Yes, it's beyond and we don't know what that is, especially since, you know, there have been lots of points in her career where she's been doing something where she's struck gold and she should keep mining that a little longer. And as you said, she is so attuned. She's not going to let anybody get bored with her because she's going to get bored and move on first. So while people are wanting more of what she did last year, she's like, no, I'm jumping ahead a couple of years. Rob Sheffield, heartbreak is the national anthem, how Taylor Swift reinvented pop music. Thank you for joining us. Always a pleasure. Thank you so much. Always enjoy talking with you guys. And mention the book tour is heading out. Yes, indeed. Oh, my gosh. Yes. My tour is heading out and going on tour. This is like my era's tour, except I can't sing, although I'm afraid I might try a time or two starts off in Brooklyn in November 12 keeps going to Cincinnati to St. Louis Rebecca Hartness's hometown to Boston to the West Coast to Portland and Seattle. Where can people find out about this? At my Instagram, which is Robbie Chef, or my Twitter, which is Rob Chef. There you go. There'll be fun things happening with Taylor in this book. And it's because it's era's tour, I feel like I should do a surprise song every night, you know, at least costume changes. Yes, exactly. I need some costume changes. And could you come out from the floor at each one, just like pop up into the bookstore? I think I will. Yes. And also, I plan to have like a little chariot to sort of like carry me above the heads of the crowd. Nice. And you know, people will be there with friendship bracelets. It's it's going to be fun. Also, lots of people won't be able to get into the book readings. So they'll just gather in the parking lots and sing the songs. All right. Rob, thank you. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. Always a pleasure. Founded in 1973, Applewood plumbing heating and electric has grown from our humble beginnings to become one of the most trusted residential plumbing HVAC and electrical providers in the Denver metro area. From the entire team, we thank you for allowing us to provide 50 years of incredible service. Calling all changemakers and trailblazers at MSU Denver, you'll discover your future. Earn your degree online or on campus. Flexibility is key. We are the changemakers. MSU Denver. All right. Welcome back. More sound upcoming here. You know, each week we ask you the sound up pod squad to send us your questions, concert reviews, album reviews, and more to get involved. Join our Facebook page at sounduppod.com. Stay connected to everything sound up related, including future live shows, including the one that we are recording this Wednesday evening. As always, send in your comments, reviews as text or audio messages to connect@sounduppod.com. Connect at sounduppod.com and become part of our podcast. So we've got pod squader Jim, who saw David Gilmore live and has this report. Hey, Alan, Mark, Roger, and the pot squad fam. This is Jim from Maryland, and I was able to get out of the mountains and head to the big city this week and see the first David Gilmore show at the garden this past Monday. And man, it was a great performance. Back in April on one of the guitar month shows on the podcast, I came on and I said that Gilmore is probably one of the best rock guitarist ever, and he and this band did not disappoint. The show was great from top to bottom with bassist Guy Pratt coming out on stage first to encourage folks, first of all, not to use flash photography, but also letting everybody know that this was a special series of performances because it's kind of a once-in-a-lifetime deal, almost hinting at the fact that Gilmore may not tour again. The band is 78, after all, and he makes new stuff only every six years or so. So who knows? But the music itself was just as amazing as you think with all of his emotive guitar playing, totally mesmerizing the audience, and a great band that included legendary T. Wardest Greg Phil and James, and Gilmore's own daughter, Romani, who sang a couple of songs from the new Luck and Strange album. The setlist itself was almost entirely Luck and Strange, with some classic Floyd thrown in, like the amazing live rendition of Fat Old Son that they do on stage. Interestingly enough, he also pulled several songs from the Division Bell Floyd album and almost nothing from other Floyd albums or on an island. Looking back, I think the setlist was complementary to the theme of the Luck and Strange album. My wife is not a Pink Floyd fan, really enjoyed the show, and she came away and impressed with Gilmore's musicianship. In her own words, it was a masterclass of a guitar performance. The light show and video were also amazing and the crowd was totally into it. So I hope you all get a chance to see the show in the next week. All right. Everybody I know who went to those shows was raving about them, have to say. Yeah. Even with kind of an odd and he played with you or here. It's not like he did nothing that we know, but with such a focus on the new album and the solo work, it felt like everybody still walked away really happy with these performances. Yeah. We talked about the new Cure album and we talked about the broadcast on YouTube of their one concert from London that they're doing this year on the day of the album release. So a lot of us watch that, but Podsquatter Victor in Minnesota actually was there in person contest winner. So let's get the first hand report. Okay. So the proxy gig, first off price, really good $75 when you make the conversion and for such a show at a very small venue. That's Robert Smith right there, right? Getting a ticket was a bit miraculous, but I was lucky enough to get one and two weeks later off to London. The performances were fantastic. You can see them in YouTube. I would have preferred some more deeper cuts, but it's unfair because many of the songs they play are not singles. It's just that I've seen them quite a bit. Last year alone, I saw them 12 times. So you get the idea versus Reeves, the girls, he's fantastic. And for instance, his solos are not the same night after night. So that's really good. And the show itself, if you look at that, I mean, it's like getting the whole album, the new album played, and then almost a full cure show regularly on top of that. I do want to make a point of what happened the the night before, because a group of fans, we were meeting at a bar for a drink close to the venue. And when we were walking by, there were trucks there in the alley. So we stopped and we ended up gathering there. The band was doing sound check, although it was more like rehearsal, with several songs played repeatedly and in full. So that was great, because many of those were songs that had never been played live from the new album that I didn't even know them at the time. The album was not out yet. And so we stayed there for like three hours. Some fans stayed a little longer and they were rewarded with some members coming out and even signing some stuff for them, not for me this time, but no regrets. So yeah, that's that's all I can say. Anyone who wants to check out the show should go and look look for it on YouTube. It's there. Thank you. They do a record release show. They played the entire new album. They did a three hour set. And he's saying, well, I could have played more, more deep cuts. All right, listen, as much as I watched, it was fantastic. The album, it's so good. I'm staying with it. And we're waiting on, I guess, announcements for shows for next year. Cannot wait. Cannot wait to see Rock and Roll Hall of Famers, the cure back here live again. All right, that's great reviews. We always thank you guys for going to shows and letting us know how they were and telling us about it. That's what it's all about here. Before we get out of here, new music picks of the week. Alan, you want to start us off? I'm so happy that you picked one in particular. Both. Yeah, so I have a couple of odd enough picks this week. One is new music from Imogen Heap, which I imagine is the one you're excited about. Now, I'm not going to claim to understand fully what is going on with this song, what have you it's called? What have you done to me? It is apparently the first of what will be a three part song release something. She has gotten deeply involved with AI stuff, which is not a surprise, because she's always been a real tech leader, first woman ever to win a Grammy for engineering. I will direct you to an interview with the Guardian, where she talks at length about her visions for this AI that she is developing. That's this whole elaborate sort of life assistant that works as much with her speech and her interviews and her existing music and things that she's working on. I don't know what the hell she's talking about. I got to read it closer. She says it's going to change your life. It's going to change everybody's life. This song, which is built on the melody from hide and seek from one of her big earlier songs, she's going to make available for us to go in and AI-assize this song. I don't know what I'm listening to. Already, this is like five minutes and it feels like kind of three different songs. It's quiet and then there's a big bass drop and then there's a big cookie monster voice thing that's going on. But it's really interesting. Everything that she does is always interesting. Taylor Swift collaborator, no less. One of the interesting pivotal covers of Hallelujah, if you pay attention to such things, then Imogen Heep is part of that story as well. So you can just listen to this, see what you think, or you can go deeper into all the backstory, which seems to be what she's interested in. I'm going to go to the Guardian interview. Yeah, research it out. It's not going to walk away. Oh, now I get it. And then my other pick from somebody else who we haven't heard from really for a long time is a country singer-songwriter named Jamie Johnson. Jamie was released some incredible music around 2010, I guess, 2008. He's one of these guys kicked around Nashville, wrote some big songs, fantastic singer, and then sort of had a moment. I mean, he wrote some big hits and then released two albums of his own. One of them had the song In Color, which won the ACM and the CMA Award for Song of the Year Magnificent Song. And then he has not put out a solo album of new music in 14 years. He continues to collaborate, he continues to tour, he shows, it's not like he's went away. He said that the passing of Toby Keith, his friend Toby Keith was really what sort of kicked him in the ass to go finish this album. And it's just beautiful. I mean, if anything, it's a little, you know, their songs are very slow. They're sort of really emotional, big ballad-y songs. These could be from the 70s, could be from the 80s. You know, in some ways, he's sort of a proto, it's not the same as Chris Stapleton, because he doesn't have that kind of R&B soulful thing. But big guy with a big beard doesn't look like a celebrity, but sounds so good that you can't really resist the sound of what he's doing. So the title track of the Midnight Gasoline album is the one I'm going to go with. If that kind of thing, you know, real old school traditional heartbreak Nashville country songwriting is your thing. Do not miss this album. And 14 years since, you know, we've gotten a full record from this guy. All right, great picks. Roger, I know you got something. Yeah, I have one new song. It's an artist named Will Swinton. This was in the new music daily Apple playlist this week, which I go through. And never heard of him before. And I was just clicking, clicking, clicking. And this song just caught me in a new single called walls. It's is he's released a couple singles this year, but he released one album in 2023 called Better Days. He's from New Zealand. And it's if I had to describe it and it hit me like this really quickly, it's kind of a mix of his vocal style reminds me of Lewis Capaldi before Lewis Capaldi opens up and does the big vocal breaks like that softer side of him. It's that with Olivia Rodrigo style lyrics and one direction kind of pacing. It's this really interesting mix, but it comes across really, really honest and really pretty. And it's very different from what I'm usually looking for. And this one just grabbed me. It's a very subtle, soft, emotional track. And then I went back and listened to more and more of his stuff. And it really does fall in that line. And he's just this really interesting artist who, you know, is just starting to really make an in from self machine gun Kelly apparently is a fan of his and they met up randomly once in a bar and he struck up a relationship with him. So I'm hoping this leads to another full album of stuff, but it's definitely someone you guys should check out and keep an eye on because he's really good. Can I just interject here? I have a couple of tunes I wanted to mention also. One of the things that I think has happened with the three of us, and I hope with people who are listening is over the course of the time that we have all been working together, I was thinking this Roger as you were telling us about this this artist who you just stumbled across. I usually would count on you for the rock for the metal when it comes to new stuff. You're the rock guy. And yet I know and I know that Alan has gotten you into country music and more, you know, in particular country artists and same thing goes for me. Just between all of us, I think I hope what's happening with us is happening with our audience as well. I just I had to it feels so cool to talk about so many different kinds of music. Had to mention it's great. And I do I do look for the harder stuff too. But I you know, most of the harder stuff that came out this week is not in my wheelhouse. It's more of the screamo kind of harder stuff. And I'm it's not my thing. I mean, people love it. And that's great. But I just can't really review it because I don't I don't get it so much. Yeah, got it. That I agree. All right, I got a couple real quick to give to you. First up, I've been talking about this duo forever, Lucius. These two women lead both they're both lead vocalist Jess Wolf and Holly Lessig. And they have a new song called Take a Picture, which is a cover of the filter tune, the filter song. Yeah, I always loved so much. And their version is it doesn't really, you know, digress or do anything fancy. But it's they sing so beautifully that it's a beautiful cover. You know, the melody of that song just on its own is is so great. And what I have found out is that next month, three sirens music group is going to release a 90s covers compilation to help raise awareness for gun violence prevention. Every possible way is what the name of it will be after the cranberries dreams. It will feature already released tracks. We've got grams covering flaming lips. We've got deep sea diver covering you'll a tango and on and on and on magnetic fields. It's really an interesting compilation. And that one is a great intro. Take a picture, just a great, a great tune in and of itself. Next up is from a group called The Remedy Project, which is a group of it's a music collective, I guess that's the best way to explain it. And this is a long awaited EP from the tune from this collective is from an artist called T Williams. The song is Emotions. And this is she's an artist who is kind of genre less if I might. She she put out an album in 2023 called Raves of Future Past. If you get the reference, Raves Raves of Future Past. And it was described as a sharp blend of grime, garage, UK funky and Afro house. And that's a great description of these releases. It's a lot. It's a lot of descriptions. So it's there'll be a string of singles that have come out already from The Remedy Project and and more to come. But the tune, T Williams, it's Sensitive New Machine and features Lily McKenzie, who is also a great new artist who just put out an EP about motherhood. She is currently pregnant and some amazing songs. And finally, Griff, I can't get away every song that she has been putting out. I adore last night's mascara. We have heard this before. Yes. The last last night's mascara is the the latest the song that began last year. Just after she completed her debut album Vertigo that came in July, I had the idea of makeup being a metaphor for all of your anxieties and worries or a person that's completely hurt you. She says it's describing the time period between a Friday or a Saturday night to a Sunday and the emotional low of what can happen in your weekend last night's mascara from Griff all worth listening to and all on our sound up soundtrack playlist on Spotify. This is the the end of the sound up this edition of sound up. But as we say, please make sure to check us out on socials and YouTube. We are up on YouTube now for exclusive content, full videos and more. It's all at sound up pod. Go give us a five star review, email us at connect@sounduppod.com and we hope to see you on Wednesday night for our audience episode. All right. Thanks for listening and thanks for supporting us here on sound up with my goodness. Sound up is hosted by Mark Goodman and Alan Light, produced by Roger Coletti for Roger That Media and distributed by Revolver Podcasts, theme music by Smile from Tokyo. For more, go to sounduppod.com. A lot has changed in the last 50 years and Applewood plumbing heating electric has changed a lot too. Founded in 1973, we've grown from our humble beginnings to become one of the most trusted residential plumbing heating, cooling and electrical providers in the Denver, Boulder and Longmont Metro areas. Applewood's story is centered on family, on outstanding customer service on our communities. From the entire Applewood plumbing heating and electric team, we thank you for allowing us to provide 50 years of incredible service. Calling all changemakers and trailblazers. At MSU Denver, you'll discover your future. Earn your degree online or on campus. Flexibility is key. We are the changemakers. MSU Denver. [ Silence ]
On episode #67 of “Sound Up!,” Mark and Alan welcome author Rob Sheffield to discuss his new book “Heartbreak is the National Anthem: How Taylor Swift Reinvented Pop Music.” Mark reports back from The Sands, where he saw Rick Springfield, Bret Michaels, Level 42, and many more. In music news, the 2025 Grammy nominations are revealed, Chappell Roan drops her management, and Zach Bryan faces domestic scandal. We get two live reviews from our Sound Up! Pod Squad - David Gilmour at MSG and The Cure in London. Plus, this week’s new music picks feature tracks from Imogen Heap, Jamey Johnson, Will Swinton, Lucius, and Griff.
