Haywood Fennell invites his guest, Brennan O'Connell, to talk about his work at the William Joiner Institute at UMass Boston in an effort to provide mental health opportunities for recovering veterans.
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[Music] [Music] [Music] Good afternoon, everybody. Good afternoon. The other page radio we're here again today will be BCALP102.9 FM Boston, Boston's Community Radio Station. This is a wonderful day, absolutely, absolutely. We have a guest here, folks. I mean, you know, you hear a lot about veterans and veterans institutions these days, but you don't hear enough about some veterans, particularly the William Jones Institute, you know. They say, William Jones Institute, where is that? What is that? And it's been around a while. It's been around a while helping people understand what veterans go through and what they don't have to go through once they get educated and redirected. We have a veteran here today that's going to be our guest and we're going to celebrate the work that he's doing over there. We have today had a recess department at the William Jones Institute, UMass Boston, Mr. Brendan O'Connor. Welcome, sir. Well, thank you, he would for having me. My honor, my pleasure. It's more than our honor. It's more our pleasure because we know that you are a man that has been in the thick of things when it comes to educating our veterans when they hit that campus over there, UMass Boston, when they come to the William Jones Institute. Tell us a little bit about the William Jones Institute. Please forget really into it. Sure, I'd love to. William Jones Institute is named for William Joyner, who was the first UMass Boston veterans administration counselor. Unfortunately, within the year of his taking that position, William Joyner passed from his work in the Army as a ammo handler that was loading Asian orange onto different types of aircraft. So, in honor of him, they founded the William Joyner Institute for the Study of War and Social Consequences in 1981. The Study of War and Social Consequences is real broad. Now, you say it started when? Approximately 1980, I think. So, 1980, we're looking at about 40 years or so, you might say, just to round it off, right? No, that's, if I do, I don't have 40, I only have 20, so let's see, yeah, that's two hands, two feet, 40 years, yes. And what exactly happens when a veteran goes on campus and comes to the Joyner Institute? You know, not everything, but just some key things in terms of behavior. You know, you're talking about social consequences of war. Would that be something that deals with mental health? Well, well, it certainly does, but let's be clear. When veterans walk onto campus, the first place they would stop would be the Veterans Administration Office, which is now being led by Gus St. Silva, amongst others. And he's been in place for over 20 years, but yeah, they would stop there where they would apply for their benefits, learn what's available to them, and one of the things available to them as veteran students is the VA Work Study Program. And that pays these veterans an additional amount of money for working with the Williams Joyner Institute and to participate in the research projects that we, where we research and try to, we allow the social consequences of war. So, they don't necessarily come to the Williams Joyner Institute unless they volunteer for work or unless we recruit them for that work as a veteran's work study student. For clarity, the Williams Joyner Institute is not a learning institute like the other institutes or departments might be set up. Is that right? Well, it's a research institute. The research that we do is, in this day and age, is to improve the delivery of veteran services to veterans, their families, or to do research on the various conflicts to eliminate the use of war as diplomacy by other means. To end the suffering of refugees to help the family of the family that bore the brunt of battle. Take a little bite. Are you a veteran, or do you know a veteran who is struggling with housing due to COVID-19? Veterans Inc. can help provide support services, including assistance with rent, deposits, utilities, as well as emergency housing, including hotel stays to eligible struggling veterans. If you or someone you know is in need of services, please call 1-800-482-2565 or go online to www.veteransinc.org. Again, here's that song again for the hundredth time today. Here's that song again. It's gonna be stuck in your head all day. Here's that song again. It will make you cray-cray! You love your kids enough to watch that TV show a bajillion times. Love them enough to make sure they're in the right car seat for their age and size. Show 'em you love 'em. Keep 'em safe. Visit nhtsa.gov/therightseat, brought to you by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Ad Council. I wanna say welcome to Brendan O'Connor, who is a research staff member, if you will. As the William Joyner Institute, and what he does is what needs to be done. The social consequences of war and its effect on the families and the veterans needs as much research as possible, because we live in a country that has been engaged in wars for centuries, if you will, fighting all over the world and having consequences that we didn't think that we had to deal with. And now we find ourselves confronted with a lot of mal-adjustments and mental health challenges. And Brendan, is that anything in your area that you're working or have worked on to try to give some direction to what we can do to help our veterans and their families? Well, absolutely. I joined the Institute when the Institute was under the care of Tom C. Miller, who himself, a career Coast Guard man. Did you say Coast Guard? Yes, yes I did, right. A career Coast Guard man, and who continued to serve the community of veterans after his own time in service. He was also the Vice Chancellor of Academic Affairs and Finance at UMass Boston, so he was double-hatted as the CEO of the William Joyner Institute. So I came in as the co-director and there were studies going on and research going on that I have continued to support. And your research teams are qualified professional people. Are they interns without a degree? Well, they are, for instance, we have a staff of PhD students who are, you know, concentration, concentrations in sociology or medicine who are leading the research teams on items such as the veteran identity crisis. You know, the veteran suicide crisis. We also were looking at, we have a study where we compare University of Texas, University of Connecticut, and UMass Boston's approach to veterans and how we are looking at those universities to see their best practices. Do you do cross-references? Is that what you mean? Well, we have students in those locations who are themselves veterans, who basically are trying to compare and contrast the approach to the veterans and the services that are veterans to veterans. And it's our design to do the research and provide an example of the best practices that all universities and all colleges could follow. OK, so that's my point right there. That's what I want to know. That's what I want to know. Because there's so many similarities in the way that veterans are treated and not treated. And it's kind of counterproductive because we don't have a uniform way of doing that. You know, the crisis situations that veterans is particularly if they've had any kind of traumatic setting. We have to try to understand that there has to be a commonality in terms of gathering information so it could be better analyzed. And that's what it seems like when you mentioned a cross reference is being done. But is it being done a lot? I mean, you name three states. Are they the only ones that you know of? No, they're not the only ones I know of, but this is the only study that I know of where there is that attempt to level the bubbles. How long has it been going on? That study's been going on for about two and a half years now. OK, so you're a researcher yourself. Actually done research projects before. Well, actually, but actually, no, not I have to put you on the spot right now. Well, I have done research on my own right in pursuit of my college degrees. But as far as being out here and participating in research, yes, I've done that. But have I led a research project? No, not yet. Not yet. Right. More or less, what I do is I facilitate the researchers. I find them. We publish surveys. We get the surveys out to veterans. And then we bring it back. We do the analysis and then we complete our research. You know what? I'm really proud of you. In that in that tribe veterans league. You know, we had a man by the name of Dr. Joseph Warren. From an office in university. He was an officer in the United States Navy. And I don't know if you know Ron Armstrong or not. But Ron Armstrong said is a historian. And so I asked some some concerns and that were gut felt. And Ron says, well, you know, what you need to do is you need to go beyond the gut. You need to set up some kind of survey. And Dr. Warren helped facilitate us doing something, creating a survey with an office in university. A public health school, public health that interviewed African American veterans and their concerns around using the VA health care system. And so what happened was that we interviewed maybe a hundred veterans in the survey regarding questions about disparities in health care. Professional delivered what should be done and they came out with a finding. And it was submitted to the secretary of veterans affairs. But I find that sometimes people don't like to be told the truth. But the truth is that you're free. And when I say that, I'll say that from an encouraging standpoint. That you said that this particular process, as far as you know, has been going on for like two and a half, maybe three years. Okay, so because of the lack of these surveys and post discharge situations, we're behind time. I believe, because the number of people that are now dealing with suicide, suicide ideations is coming out now. And it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good. So, how do we how do we get the government or better yet or better yet? How do we get corporate America involved to understand that they have some input in, they should have some put in input into research to help their veterans, some of them that work for them. Or have family members that work for them and they're not able to deal with the situations like a PTSD. Well, so it seems to me that your question is, is how do we get the proper people involved? You know, corporations, I believe, who are enjoying the freedoms that veterans have brought them have a responsibility to get involved, to fund research, to lift the veteran community up to where they need to be. And yes, that's that is the point of our research is to, is to bring that responsibility and laid at their feet and engage them so that, you know, all veterans and their families and and indeed the social consequences of male and female. No, absolutely. Male, it doesn't doesn't matter. Doesn't matter what color, what stripe, what gender doesn't matter. And because, because the social consequences of war extends beyond the veteran extension of the family. And I know that. I mean, I know that I've seen it. I love the, I love the social consequences of veterans of war. I love that. I love that terminology because people need to understand exactly what that is. Because veterans are treated because of their situations and lack of services provision. They are damaged. They are wounded, mentally, physically, and there's something that could and should be done for them. We should not hesitate in beginning to try to educate the importance of a full collective responsibility to help our veterans. Well, there is a huge and great wave of concern that has that has gripped the nation now with the staggering statistics of 22 suicides a day. How many? At least, well, I think, I mean, you know, we're doing an approximate. I just want you to repeat that so that our listeners can hear it. 22 veterans a day. 22 veterans a day take their lives. And the statistics are not clear as to exactly what, what population that is. The overriding statistics are showing that it's the veteran in the twenty one to thirty six year age, twenty one to thirty six years of age group. That makes it the global war on terror, who, you know, we fought a war in Afghanistan for over twenty years, our longest war. And the nature of the war, the no battle lines, the random, the random death that would come from crudely fired and aimed rockets could just made no lines, made a war of no lines where people who before were never faced with, you know, the realities of battle. Not that way. Not that way. Right. Just the randomness of the war made it that much more difficult for our veterans. And you also have to look at the weather conditions too. Sure. Yeah. I mean, 130 degrees during the day, dropping to a chilly hundred degrees at night so that you have to sleep under, you have to put in on a sleeping bag. You have to put yourself in a sleeping bag because of that. That human is that humidity, the difference in the difference in temperatures. Yes. So, and you know, in the bleak nature, you know, the bleak and stark landscape, just totally foreign to most Americans, especially the smell. Well, the smells of battle are, yeah, the smells of battle are something that you can't forget them. No, you cannot. That's true. That's like, it's like something that we need to talk more about in terms of creating a document, a film, a film, a film or films. As part of our debriefing our community, our public, so that they can become aware of the importance of taking care of our veterans and providing funding. Right. Well, they say that the strongest, the strongest that the smell, the smell and the olfactory sense of war is forever ingrained, and it wouldn't take much to pass by a garbage dump, an open sewer. That would bring all that by all those memories of war. Just like that. Just like that. Bring it all back. Just like that. Exactly. Just take a little break right now. We'll be right back. Thank you. Potential is everywhere. It's in every child in every community. 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Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health, because most people out here really care. Find more information at loveyourmindtoday.org. That's loveyourmindtoday.org. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council. This is the other page radio. We're here on WBC ALP102.9 FM Boston, Boston's Community Radio Station. Program is sponsored by Triad Veterans League. You can call us at 8572045312. My guest today, I'll guess today, your guest today, is a brother by the name of Brendan O'Connor. He is at the William Joiner Institute on the campus of UMass Boston, where war and social consequences of war is researched. I was thinking of Brendan that the class would be set up and there would be a bunch of veterans that come in to learn and to better understand their situation as veterans and what they encountered in the military. But now, when you're coming on this program, I'm very clear that it's not a classroom setting per se, but it is a classroom because of the research that's being done to help our veterans. How do you feel about that? Well, UMass Boston has a cohort of professors who, some of them, many of them who have served, and they give outlet to veterans. They teach veterans. Veterans are drawn to these professors where English professors, history professors, I can think of one English professor who, well, actually the William Joiner Institute, one of its main strengths during the early, in its early days, were writing workshops established by the William Joiner Institute to give lights and air and vent to the experience of veterans. Those writing classes, those expression, those opportunities to express that normalized relationships with Vietnam, there were exchanges between Vietnam veterans from both sides. You know, Vietnamese, North Vietnamese soldiers coming here and Americans going to Vietnam to, you know, to reorientate themselves. Right. Exactly the case. And it's that, that those are the things that we want to get back to. And with help from the community and from corporate partners and from radio stations like this, we think that's possible. We're always going to be available to people that raised their hand. You know, I raised my hand, right? I raised my hand, folks. And I said, when I took that oath, and I do whatever I was told to do, whatever it was, that was my mindset. And I went in, and I stayed almost six years. And when I came out, my hand wasn't raised, but if I raised it, nobody would pay any attention. They wouldn't shake the hand of a veteran, because they thought that we were the guys that did all the killing of the babies over there. Never thinking about the young lives that were transported from our country into a country that didn't know anything about any of the people and went through some stuff. I mean, some horrendous evidence, and they came back and the glow that used to be in their eyes before they left this country was replaced by a dog, looked like a fish on ice in a fish market. They didn't talk about anything. They didn't look for anybody that they knew. They just wanted to be left alone. We have now gotten to the point where through research that needs to continue on how to identify some of the issues and prevent some of the fatalities around suicide that have been going on. Not all of them. Not all of them. We give these programs that they have where they find places for you to live. And without treatment, it becomes a room that will soon become a tomb, because people are still using gloves. We haven't taken the time to provide sufficient funding. Grants should not have to be completed for. They should be there. They shouldn't wait for the government to decide. They should, in turn, ask what they can do. Remember what Kennedy said? Remember what he said for my President Kennedy? Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. I raised my hand, folks. I didn't rest my case. They called me outspoken because I'm speaking about our veterans, because I am a veteran. I care about our veterans, and I have a veteran that's my guest today from the William Joiner Institute. I'm not an extremely learned man, but I grew up in a household where education was very valued. One of the books that was on my parents' shelf was Don Quixote, which tells the story of a crazy old man tilting it when Mills reading books. And in that book, he says this about soldiering. And I think it's important because unlike soldiering in other countries, American soldiers don't fight for territory. They fight for ideals, and the idea that liberation, freedom, self-determination, equality, these are things that Americans fight for. We don't fight for land. We don't fight to take land, at least anymore. At least not in this century. So one of the things that he said in Miguel de Cervantes said as Don Quixote was that soldiers fight for an end. And that end is really generous and great and worthy of high commendation. And that our fights, our wars, the object of those wars and end is peace, which is the greatest blessing man can wish for in his life. And this peace is the true end of war, allowing this truth at the end of war's peace, and that in this it excels the end of learning. Let us now weigh the bodily labors that the scholar undergoes against those that the warrior suffers, and then see which is greatest. And that is the greatest end is peace. Well, you know, I didn't read Don Quixote, but I know that in their Broadway production they had a song called "The Impossible Dream." It's really the impossible dream to fight the unbeatable folk. It's funny that you would mention that, and it goes right to the PTSD situation that we are now living in. When something cannot be forgotten when you want to forget it, when it can pop up any time in your life, any place where you are, and you can't talk about it, or don't want to talk about it. To dream the impossible dream to fight the unbeatable folk. For folks, I think we can beat it. All right. Well, this is the quest upon which you and I are engaged. This is the quest to follow the star of hope. That's right. Amen. That's what he says in the impossible dream. This is my quest to follow the star of recovery. I'm putting that in there. Sure. This is the other page radio brought to you by Triad Veterans League, WBCAOP. 102.9 FM Boston, Boston's Community Radio Station. We welcome you. We welcome all our veterans. We want to also tell you that on November the 30th, you can come to the Unitarian Church at 40 Main Street in Sharon, Massachusetts, to see a play written by the Oscar Michaud family theater program company that is composed of veteran volunteers and some non-volunteers to perform and to acknowledge the Unitarian Church history of social justice. This is the first place that we will go and we will be there on that date. You can tell other folks November 30th, November 30th at 330. You can get well in the chain. So my friend just brought in the impossible dream to dream the impossible dream to fight the unbeatable foe, to bear with unbearable sorrow and to run where the brave did not go, to run where the brave did not go. We don't want you to run anywhere, especially when you're talking about how do we better define ways, how do we generate revenue, how do we get people involved. They need to walk and sit at the table for decision making because our veterans should not have to go through some of the things that they're going through because we live in the richest country in the world. We give 50 billion dollars to countries that have wars on other countries to kill, but you don't give 50 billion dollars to the veterans to live. Did you hear me talking to you folks? Do you understand what we need to do to come together, to support places like the William Joiner Institute at UMass Boston, talking about the damages of our society, from our veterans being exposed to situations where death rides like every day, every second, and then they have a report that says that there are 23 suicides daily, our veterans. We can do something about that. We can turn our attention and get this information right and get these research projects with the vigor that they need by providing the resources, by coming and visiting places that provide these research strategies. It's a very depressing job when you begin to read the data, and then you have to shape the data to create the finding to define how we, as a people, can help our veterans and their families, because the families don't understand what the veteran went through because the veteran will tell them, and so the family becomes what we call codependent. You know, codependency is like a heroin addict, you know, who's always taking stuff from the family, you know, and it's expecting them to understand and not really understanding themselves what they're doing. I'm speaking from experience now. I'm speaking from how my wife raised our children alone, because I wasn't able to. I was totally, totally overwhelmed by an addiction that I've now been free of for 30 years. We're trying to be a hero because I was never a hero, and there's so many of us out there that are still holding on to the string of dope instead of finding a rope of hope. There's so many people that need help, and help comes from knowing who the enemy is in terms of research, finding a place and a space that provide the help that we need for our veterans and their families, his research, to guide us to a level of understanding that we can't live like that. What is the number for the Joint Institute, please? What number do you have? Well, I don't have it handy. I can, it's in my backpack. Here you are. Yeah. One second. We got him running around, folks. He don't mind moving fast. We got him running around. Let's see what we're doing here at the other page radio we're talking about. Having a veterans event at the General Able O. Gardein, African American Memorial Park just directly across the street from Boston Police Station number two on Veterans Day from 10 a.m. until 2 p.m. with the support of the Office of the Commissioner for Boston Veterans Services, Robert Santiago, Goodman, and we're looking forward to people coming out and celebrating the event, which is to honor the veterans and to sign our petition that we are proposing for the creation of a United States commemorated STEM series based on the images in our calendar that is published annually of the African Americans' participation from World War, American Revolutionary War II, World War II, that includes a picture of the 99-81 image where President Harry S. Truman signed the petition to end segregation in the United States military. So we need you to come out and support. People take Veterans Day and they say, "Oh, that's a holiday." Veterans don't have holidays. You might call some of these restaurants to have these food giveaways and all those other things, and veteran sales, and that's not the way you pay homage to veterans. You have to try to understand how we can help these people because they're looking at veterans like they were Vegas, that they don't count, they don't count. We count veterans, we count veterans, we want people to understand that veterans get help when we do solutions-driven strategies like embody our research capabilities. I don't know anybody in this area that has focused on this than the William Jones Center or Institute, sorry. I'm always getting that name, let me get this name right for you guys, so maybe you might want to send something to them. We're not soliciting anything, we don't do that if you can. William Jones Institute for the Study of War and Social Consequence, that title tells you that work is being done. Social Consequence includes everyone, your neighbor, the guy across the street, because when the veteran comes home, he's not debriefed. We need to understand how sometimes he or she may be lonely and may not know exactly what is wrong until they get to an institute where they can begin to talk about what's going on in their lives, and the guide to that is research. The research information is being provided helps the people with their decision-making and treatment development plans. Treatment plan, brother, treatment plan, sister. The only way you're going to get it is you've got to have information, and what you do with that information is you sit down and you talk about it and you find variables, and you make a suggested plan, and you go back and you try it out, and if it doesn't work, you sit down again until you get it right. That takes research, that takes revenue, that takes your support. We need to be very mindful of how we treat our veterans. We'll be right back. The Oscar Macheau Family Theater Program is a Boston non-profit. They hope to teach the importance of the service through the art of theater, looking to establish a year-round community-based family theater organization with full theater productions by people from the community. For more information, you can visit www.OscarMacheauRep.tripod.com. We're going to have a few words from our guests on what's going on on campus. We've got Veterans Day and a whole lot of other stuff that I've got so these silver is doing over there. You might want to mention that, too, if you have it. Go ahead. I do want to inform people that at UMass Boston, from the 4th to the 14th of November across the Veterans Day holiday, will be setting up the veterans' calendar displays and allowing students, anyone else, who visits to sign the petition to get that stamp project moving in the right direction. Again, from the 4th to the 14th across Veterans Day is the stamp effort. The recognition. We'll be there. We'll be there. That's right, you will. Thank you so much for mentioning that, because if you don't support veterans, if you don't realize, if you can't imagine a young man or young woman raising their hand to come and do their duty as a veteran, as a soldier, as a sailor, as a Marine, as an Air Force member of the National Guard Treasury Department, post-God, that's where I meant not Treasury Department, post-God. All these forces come together for you to protect you, to protect America. You cannot afford to not care about the situations that our veterans are personally going through. You know what? You know what? I was saying to myself, you know, sometimes I talk to myself, and it sounds so real, you know. I was saying to myself, right, I said that every elected official should be mandated to serve in the United States military in some branch. They were probably able to vote for that, though, but I just think that when you talk about the greatness of America, you cannot omit the greatness of the veterans, because it doesn't work without the veterans. You can't have anything in America without what the veterans have done. I completely agree with you, Haywood, although we have to take into account that not everyone can serve in the military, but I do like the idea of everyone serving their nation. I do like the idea of volunteerism. I do think that it would be greatly cohesive if everyone was required to serve in some capacity for their community, whether if they can't serve in the Department of Defense, maybe they can serve in the Department of Treasury. Maybe they could work in healthcare, in accounting, in anything or anything and everything has to say some sort of a public community service aspect to it and that, I think that would be greatly mending and cohesive for all communities and all people to serve their community, and that should be a requirement, or I, well, maybe not a requirement, because it would be great. I think it should be required because people have a tendency, you know, to get lax and whatnot. Sure. Let somebody else do it and you see, that's the problem right there, but see, all those people that served in the United States military and those that didn't serve in the United States military, you know, that's how they got that attitude, or let them do it. I'm fine. And when they did it, they came back and they weren't appreciated. Well, yeah, it's, you know, I'm not a, I'm a veteran myself and you know, I don't like to be taken for granted, portrayed, portrayed as a veteran who needs a great amount of assistance. I have my own pride, and I, you know, they say pride comes before a fall, but I just, I just don't want the stereotypes of veterans to continue as it's not helpful, and often oftentimes it's not accurate. And you know, you know, speaking of accuracy, you know, like I just want to let veterans know that, you know, I'm going to vote, y'all, I'm a vote, I am voting, I am voting. You think I was going to let you all get away without saying something patriotic? We need to vote veterans, and we also need to know that we are not losers and suckers. We also need to know that we have been defined as losers and suckers. You sit with that if you want to, and don't vote. You got to vote, you got to participate on every level of government that you will, or uniform, raise your hand, and fall to defend. Right. We raised our hands to defend the right to vote. It would be ironic if we choose not to vote as veterans. You know, I'm really grateful that you took the time, Brendan, I had to like, drag you like I was dragging a stallion to get you up in there, but I wasn't worried. I knew that one day you show up and you did, and we thank you for coming in and telling us a little bit for really a lot, because if you don't know nothing about something and somebody to give you a drop, it's a lot. We're talking about the William Joiner Institute, a man who passed before his institute could really kick off, but it's going, and it's doing well, and we thank you for carrying on in the manner that you've been carrying on and leadership. We hope that our listeners will share this information that we've been sharing with them, because they can call their elected officials regarding what they heard on our show today. The other page, radio, we do it every week, and we want to make sure that you know that we can do better, that we can be better, that veterans made it possible, but now they're trying to make it impossible for veterans to get the treatments, et cetera, that they need. Well, thank you, Heywood, for having me. I mean, we are old and creak, we're creaky and old veterans, old men, but we're, we're bent on an impossible dream. I don't think it's an, I don't think it's impossible. I think that we can continue to strive to do what's right for our veterans, and we can see some real progress. Well, you know, since you said that, I'm going to have to call a comment that a general by the name of McArthur made, Douglas McArthur was a hero, he went all the way through to a Korean ball. And he got, I don't like to use the word, let's see, he got relieved of his command, and as he was leaving, he said, and I quote, old soldiers never die, they just fade away. And so I'm going to thank you for letting us to be a part of your day to date. I'm going to thank Brendan O'Connor from the William Jones Institute, you master being our guests and Sharon. We hope that you got something out of it. And you can call your elected officials and let them know what you heard here today. And you can remember that we're going to be on campus doing what part of it is it again? It's at the campus center from the fourth to the 14th of November. You can show up. Thank you, everybody. This has been a wonderful show, WBCALP, 102.9 FM Boston, Boston Community Radio Station. We are signing off as the other page video. Take care, God bless, and thank you for your service. Thank you for having me. [MUSIC PLAYING]