This week on Talk of the Neighborhoods, District 3 City Councilor John Fitzgerald joins us on the first half to talk about the challenges he has faced in his first year in office. Then, on the second half, longtime Democratic political strategists Jason Cincotti, (CinCon Group) and Matt O'Neil (O'Neil Strategy Group) join us to analyze the results from the November General Election.
WBCA Podcasts
Talk Of The Neighborhoods
- Good evening and welcome to Talk of the Neighborhoods. I'm Joe Heisler, your host, coming to you from the BNN Live studios in Eggleston Square. And tonight also we're being simulcast on our sister radio station, WBCA 102.9 FM. Tonight, a terrific show. We'll do some post-election analysis. Some might call it post-mortem analysis, but we'll talk about the results. Of course, locally, Democrats continue to dominate, but nationally, a big surprise. Donald Trump, the next president of the United States. And we'll talk with a couple of political strategists, political pros tonight about that. But first, we'll catch up with District 3, Boston City Councilor John Fitzgerald. He's wrapping up his first year on the council and we'll find out what he's up to these days and what's ahead for him. All that and more tonight on Talk of the Neighborhoods. Stay tuned, we'll be right back. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - All right, we're back with Talk of the Neighborhoods. I'm Joel Heisler, your host. Tonight, all politics, as is our usual one. And first up tonight, we're gonna catch up with the first term Boston City Councilor, John Fitzgerald from District 3, Dorchester. And he joins us tonight after not quite a full year in his first year in office, but we're closing in on it. Nice to have you here. - Thanks, Joel. - Thanks for coming in. Well, you're having fun yet. Is the job what you thought it was gonna be when you were running? I remember you were here and very enthusiastic, of course. And you ran a good, great race, congratulations. - Thank you, thank you. Is it everything you thought it was gonna be? - Yeah, it is and more. I love the job. It's great. I tell people all the time. It's not just that they're the moments we get to help people even on the constituent level basis and make a difference in their quality of life. And that always feels good, right? I made a difference today. But I think the part that I didn't realize that I really enjoy the most is the education. You wanna talk about being involved in every facet and understanding the minutia of every issue that's going on in the city and having folks come to explain that to you. And from both sides, and I don't mean of the aisle, I just mean from both sides of whatever the issue is, right, the pros and the cons and try to tell you here's why it's good or bad. And then you get to go home at night and say, "Wow, I'm one of 13 people in this city "that gets to have a vote on that." And that's pretty cool, but the education has been unbelievable. - Any surprises, anything surprising about it? Now you grew up a very political family, people I don't know, you're a scion son of a famous former Boston State Representative Kevin Fitzgerald from Mission Hill. Now you're from Dorchester, but you're making a name for yourself there as well. But any surprises that you didn't realize? - No, you know, I don't think there's many surprises, I'd say. One thing that I've enjoyed that I was curious about was how well we would get along as a body given some of the recent past. And I'm happy to say that it's a very well-working body together. And sure, I mean, people have their differences personally and politically. But that's to be expected, and that's a good thing. But the decorum, the fashion in which we treat each other, I think, has been a huge improvement, and I'm happy to be part of that in the sense. - That wasn't always the case. Last term, I think a lot of people were referencing it as a toxic environment. - Yeah. - So what changed? Can you tell? I mean, you weren't in office, obviously, at that point. But any sense of what might have, people feeling a little chastened about quite what they say publicly. - Yeah, and I mean, obviously the pandemic played a role in doing a lot of things remotely and losing the personal connection that politics is really, that's at the heart of it, right? And so when you lose that, it might be easy to lose sight of how to treat each other and how to behave. And, you know, God bless them. They went through a time that hopefully, we never really have to go through again in our lifetime. So I can't fault them for how they may have behaved during it 'cause they were put in a very difficult situation at a very, at a rapid pace. - So everybody remote, you know, there's still some divisions there. And you mentioned, oh, this is around issues. You feeling caught in the middle sometimes? You know, I'm seeing, depending upon the issue. And of course, there's a lot of egos, a lot of personalities up there and people, you know, who knows, positioning themselves for, who knows, maybe another office or whatever, but do you kind of feel kind of caught in the middle sometimes? - I don't know if I'd say caught in the middle. I mean, folks are gonna do what they're gonna do and you just have to concentrate on your task at hand and what your responsibility is. And that's what I, that's what I try and do. I try to treat everyone with respect and do what's best for my district 'cause that's what I was voted by the people of Dorchester and the South End to do. And just try to deliver as best I can for them. - And what about what have you found the most challenging part of the job so far? - So yeah, I guess the challenging part really is you realize how little influence, honestly, you may have on some of these things as a council. Now, right, there are things there are calls you can make and you can get a call back from certain people and high up and things like that and that's city, state and federal level. But sometimes when it comes to down to the like, can you get this done and you say, well, I really can't promise that because my seat doesn't have the power to deliver that specifically but I can advocate for you and I can't, and so that's I think when people get frustrated 'cause a lot of times it might seem like you're just in an echo chamber and you're really trying to get something that you feel is very common sense and worthy of doing, right? - Well, of course, and under the Boston form of government, strong near form of government, the mayor pulls most of the strings, although there's been some changes now in the budgetary process to a certain extent, but how is that going? Have you been able to connect with the mayor's people and are they responsive? - Yeah, no, they have been, right? And I think on some of my biggest votes, we've voted against the administration but I still believe I have a very good relationship with them and so again, it's common courtesy and it's respect and no matter who you are or where you stand, I think if you follow those rules, you'll understand there's a dialogue to be had and there's room to be made for you and so I appreciate that from the administration but still, I will always continue to fight for how I think things should be and that's my voice on the council. - Whether it's in favor or not, well, of course, a very, I don't know that it's controversial but certainly some back and forth on the mayor's tax proposal to shift the burden and then the compromised tax proposal, which was worked out with some business leaders and others and where did you fall on that and how did you navigate that particular issue? How did you feel about it? - Yeah, sure. So the first time it came in front of us as originally proposed, I voted against it. I believe I was one of four, I think, on the council to vote against it but when it came back in front of us for the second time, amended as such, hearing from the business community and talking to those folks, understanding the folks there that were representing the business community and granted they didn't speak for everyone in the business community but the deal that they worked out, I felt, well, you know what, it's, if you guys have worked it out and both sides are comfortable, I'm not gonna stand in the way of that. However, I think it's important for folks to understand about the communication, to communicate to them that this isn't, this isn't a win, right? You know, yes, your residential-- - The residential won't go up-- - The residential touch. - Well, yeah, they're not gonna go up as much but I didn't want people to feel, all that is, is that burden that we have to shift from the commercial property to the residential property is just being spread out over three years. So for folks who said, I can't take that on. They said, well, now I feel I don't have to. Well, in year one, okay, you're only gonna go up eight, nine percent, whatever it may be but over the next three years, you're still gonna have that whatever it may be, 20 some odd percent raise. So if you were worried about that maker breaking you, that is still in the future, that's still on the horizon. And so I worry about the people, I just want them to understand, it's not a win but you bought yourself some time. But that issue is still out there and it is coming. - Right, and there's no getting around it. Well, of course, the alternative that some people were espoused, including some on the council, was to cut the budget and what about that? - Yeah. - Did you consider that? - Yep, so I've done some homework on this. And back in 2004, when Manino shifted the appropriation to more to residential and he did cut budget at the same time. And so a lot of people think the two were, that was one in the same. But really, it was two separate processes that just happened to be, a lot of people conflated later on. The state gave less aid. And so the city was forced to cut the budget. And it just so happened to happen at the same time as this appropriation, right? So I understood, okay, I don't want to conflate the two and misrepresent the people that cutting the budget will save the taxes. But at the same time, I do think that there is a lot of places in the budget currently that we could cut. And I think we still have to look at that and understand that the times, again, because the times aren't over, these tough times are not over. And we don't have the predictability we once had now, especially given recent events, that cutting the budget still should be very much on the table. - Oh, and it still hasn't been received approval from the state yet, is that correct? - Yeah, true, the appropriation itself, yes. - Right, it is not there. - Yep. - Do you think the mayor played a little bit too much hardball on this initially, that she might have been able to resolve this earlier or did it take this kind of a back and forth thing for all sides to kind of feel some comfort like that? - You know, you could Monday morning quarterback it, but if you weren't in the room, I guess it's hard to say exactly. Could it probably have been done sooner, perhaps, right? But still, the result would be the same, and we got there. And I think that's what's important, and we bought some people some time, but again, letting those folks know, it's you're not out of the woods. - And of course, the new budget season is coming up and it may be an issue again, how it's dealt with. I understand that a lot of the increases driven by contracts, you know, for employees, so some of those are unavoidable, I think, if you've agreed to the contract. I want to ask you about a couple of other things. And before we look, kind of had, of course, there was also a hearing recently about ranked choice voting. And of course, you know, we just went through this unbelievable election, and some places, including Maine, has ranked choice voting, and some other places as well. But the council president was here and was talking about it, and she wants City of Boston to go to ranked choice voting. What do you think about that? - Yeah, and so when it's explained at face value, you can say, okay, yeah, sure, give more choices. But what I worry really occurs, like with a lot of these policies that are sort of like, well, here's the idea that it should lead to, or here's the result, and then you look back and you go, well, that's not what it was meant for, and it turns out to be something right backwards. And so my fear with ranked choice voting is that it leads to mediocrity, right? Where someone who could get the finishes fifth place in the voting ends up winning the seats. To me, it just sort of says, well, it's one of those, well, if nobody's happy, is everybody happy, or is it, you know, may the best man or woman win, right? And the person with the most votes, and that's who more people want, and therefore, you know, whether whoever doesn't like it or not, you didn't vote for that person fine, but we're going through that now as a country as well. - What do you think was the difference in your election? - You had a really very well-spoken opponent, and it seemed to be, you know, well organized, but you seem to have prevailed. What do you think was the difference in your election? - Yeah, he worked hard, and I think we both worked hard. I just think turning out the base for me helped, and I think there were some folks that I could relate to that maybe you would look at me, right, at face value and say, I'm not with this person. But after speaking to them, after getting to know me, my history, my background, they said, there's more to that than just meets the eye. And I think that hopefully was able to give me that other percent that was able to push me over. - Well, you worked in city government well, or for the old BRA, lots of planning, development agency, you know, there's been a lot of changes in city government under the rule administration. - Sure. - How do you think that's working out? - Well, it's tough, and she wants to, she has a bill before the legislature that would reorganize it even further. - Yeah, no, that's, I mean, the planning and development agency. Oh, no, that's done. I mean, it's part of the city department now, and that is, oh yeah, that happened on June 1st. And so it is under the city. And yeah, to that specifically, obviously, having worked there for 17 years prior, I was very much against that. And I said, I don't think you understand what you could be doing to this. And we had conversations, and she had rebuttals, and it was a great, great Congo. But there's, I think there's a lot of things, right, that are there, that are new people, new places, or put into new positions that are not necessarily, you know, they didn't get to get broken in over time and learn from their elders. And so there are some things that are done differently, other communications that don't happen as need to be. But it's not to say, I mean, that's a growing pain of a first-term election as well. - Well, what's drawing a lot of attention is, of course, the schools continue to draw attention, but BPS transportation, and you know, are you hearing from a lot of parents as well? - Oh sure, oh yeah, it's not a, you know, an easy topic, because you talk about whether you have the influence to change things, of course. - Yeah, so we just actually had BPS, we were looking at, we had them in front of us today for a hearing, so the superintendent and others, and we talked about, this was just around the 26th budget. And a lot of it came around busing, and there are other conversations around busing to have. I actually also just filed something, a hearing last week, to talk about, should we look at more local schools and thinking about what that solves in this current state that we're in, right? If you're able to use, say, $50 million of that $175, $74 million bus budget now, and you put that back into the education, into the facilities, into other things that could bolster our schools to more Paris, if you wanna do inclusion model, right? That they're going towards more support, more space. You know, while building community at the same time, and lessening traffic on the roads, and maybe having start times be more uniform across the city, right? Because I think that's a big issue too. I know, personally, where my children go, it's a four o'clock release time. And they miss a lot of the neighborhood activities, because it's typically school was seven or two, right? And things started at this time. I said, well, my kids can't go to that. And so, yeah, it's gonna be a thing that we talk about. We had a good conversation with the superintendent this morning, and I know it will continue. And, you know, things are going in a direction, but I'd love to see also, sort of be able to walk to school, right? That'd be something else. Well, those are the good old days, so to speak, but it's been quite a while. All right, we got just a few minutes left. Priorities, what do you have anything in the hopper that you're hoping to get through before the end of the year, and what about your priorities for next year? Yeah, yeah. So, no, at the end of the year, typically now, if you file anything for a hearing, you won't have time to schedule the hearing. You'd have to refile in the new year anyway. You've had no trouble getting hearings, or if you've had something of interest. I know a couple of counselors have been here, Council Murphy and Council Lynn, saying that they had a hard time getting the chair of certain committees to hold hearings. Have you had that problem? No, and hopefully that's due to the respect that I've shown others, right? That's all you get to do to others and get them to you. And you're chairing what committees yourself? The public health, the homelessness and recovery. Yeah, yeah. And how's that going? How's it going? Go ahead. There's a mass and cast under your purview there. Well, sure, it's under my purview, but it's also straight in my district. So, yeah, I'm very much involved on day to day, talking with the Boston Public Health Commission on whether it's the new market bid, and working with other folks. Yeah, that is a concern that is probably our number one call to the office about. Right, I got. And did taking down the tents solve the problem there? Or are they reappearing? I haven't been passed there lately, but-- Yeah, no. I mean, it's still an issue. I'd say it's better than it was, but the problem now is it is spread. So it's more-- it's thinned out, but over a larger swath of land. So we're seeing Edward Everett Square, Andrew Square, Upham's Corner, Nubian Square, down Worcester Square, further into the south end. We're seeing an uptick in that activity there. And so obviously, that's more into the residential. So even though it may be less people than it once was at its height, it is being felt more in the community now. So its perception is a thing, right? Well, and so it continues to be a problem. All right. New year, you're going to run for re-election? Yeah, I think we're going to do one more day, sure. Yeah, well, hey, why not, right? And so what's your priorities for next year? What do you want to get done? If you can accomplish one major thing, what do you hope to accomplish? That's a great question, because like we talked about earlier, right, with the authority that you have to actually accomplish that one major thing, right? And so it's like, don't set yourself up too high. But I would love to be able to firm up massing gas. And we did a visit out to Long Island a couple of weeks ago. And the reality is, that's probably about 10 years and a billion dollars away. Not that it's not an investment we still shouldn't make. And I am for the investment. But knowing that-- Talking about building a new bridge or-- Bridge and facilities over there, right? I mean, so it's 10 years and a billion bucks, right? So it's not easy, but in the meantime, we cannot allow what is going on now to just continue for another 10. And so I'd love to find ways to clean that up in a way where, especially for the residents of the South End, who have really bore the brunt of this. But that-- What about fairies? Somebody would have said, well, why don't they just run the fairies over there again? Yeah, if you went to the dock that we pulled up at, it's not ready for any ferry. It's just another-- It'll be another-- It's another cost, right? So it will have to happen, but it's another cost, for sure. No. And in terms of working with the administration now, of course, it's next year's an election year again, and it may or will be election year. Are you feeling like you are getting drawn into that? Different people are talking. There's names being floated. So I've heard your name yet, but-- Well, let's keep it that way for now. I don't know if the wife would be too pleased, right? But no, there's-- yeah, certainly. I think we've all heard the same names. But yeah, I think it will make-- it will certain bring some fire back to the council floor. It certainly just heightens the level of things. And I think everyone expects that. And so we'll see what comes out of it. But again, have the right demeanor, the right attitude, and sort of I take things as the-- I call it the Tom Brady approach, right? Just read the defense in front of you. Make the right play on that one, this particular play. And if you do that enough times over and over again, whatever my Super Bowl is will come. Yeah, well, we shall see. Again, John Fitzgerald, he's the District 3 Boston City Councilor, it's a large part of Dorchester, also part of the south end, you said. Absolutely. Running along the coast, Dorchester by the sea for lack of a better term. We've got just a minute or two left. And what do you see in the future for you, though? What do you-- this is no small undertaking. And you ask people to judge you. And it's uncomfortable for some people. But for others, you only thrive on it. Yeah, well, again, given my upbringing, I think I've got to leg up on some folks about how to approach it attitude-wise, right? And I worry about being as a husband and a father. I think about the effects it has on kids, because I felt that, right? But it's OK to face adversity. And it's OK to face adversity at a young age. And I think it really does prepare you for the future. And I think I'm at a point now where that adversity that I faced, even growing up under that scrutiny, has prepared me for today to be even the best I can. And to answer your question early, about what I'd like to get done, just think it out, Connie Hospital. I want to make sure we have a health care facility in a hospital and emergency room back at that location. That's what I'd like to get done. Any progress on that? At this point, we've got just a minute or so left. Yeah, no, very quickly. We're meeting with-- there's a state and city task force that I'm a part of that brings in a lot of-- it has electeds and a lot of medical field, health care folks around it as well. So I think the right people are at the table. But we have to discuss-- you could put together your dream scenario of what you love as a health care facility on that property. But we also have to deal with the people that own that land. So it has to be-- it has to make sense in that regard. So I don't want to sit there and come up with a dream campus and have the folks go, yeah. It's a beautiful campus. Yeah, and it could be even better. But I think there's a way to-- right now, health care in the city and the state, it's on a razor's edge, right? And so I think there's a real Phoenix from the ash's opportunity in this kind of catastrophe that we could take in mold what health care looks like now and how it could be better serving the patients. Well, and your senator there, when he was in here recently, talked about some possibility as a long-term care facility and as that possibility? No, I think we have to look at all possibilities. It's a big campus. And the future of health care is going to be smaller. So the building itself for the hospital is probably going to have a smaller footprint, which leaves another 10 or so acres open of, what do you want to do? And I think that's where you could look at the Marion Manor closing. And I'm sure-- Right. --and it's just the right area of the Marion Manor closing. And do you put a sort of an assisted living for folks that can be right near the health care that they need across the street? And time is a flat circle because it was the old-- Marion Manor was the old county hospital originally, right? So it's like-- I think there's a great history lesson there as well. I'd love to see something like that. But those are the things we're discussing now. Yeah, and so all about financing-- It's got to-- --and control of the-- --and control of all the properties. Yeah, and so on and so on as well. Again, John Fitzgerald, District 3 City Council, thanks so much for coming in. Joe, always a pleasure. Have a great holiday. You too. And thanks for joining us. When we come back, we'll talk some more politics with a couple of political pros. Consultants, strategists, Jason Cincotti, Matt O'Neill will be joining me when we get to stay tuned. We'll be right back. [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] [MUSIC PLAYING] (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - Okay. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) - When people think summertime in Boston, they tend to think of lobster rolls, Fenway Park, and evening strolls through the public garden. But there's an often under-looked beauty in the Boston Harbor and its islands. One of the islands accessible by ferry at the Long Wharf is spectacle island. With a total travel time of just about 30 minutes, it's just a stone's throw away from the mainland. Growing up in Quincy, headaches island in Georgia's island were always summertime mainstays, but spectacle island was different. Everyone always referred to it as a dump. And I never knew why. Opening to the public in 2006, spectacle island features hiking trails and paths that are both pedestrian and cyclist-friendly. There's a dedicated swimming area. (upbeat music) And there's the Visitor's Center, which is a great place to grab a hot dog if you start to feel hungry. If you come on a Sunday in the summer, you may catch students from Berkeley College of Music playing jazz. The Visitor's Center is also a great place to learn about the history and transformation of this little island. Spectacle Island first sat in the Boston Harbor as two small hills or drumlins protruding out of the sea connected by a thin strip of land. It's believed to be named after its resemblance to a pair of glasses. It, like many of the harbor islands at the time, served as both a place of industry and seclusion from the budding metropolis. Both a home to Boston Mariners and to Boston's first dedicated trash incinerator, which was commissioned around the turn of the last century to deal with the growing amount of trash that came with the city's expanding population. When the incinerator closed in the 1930s, instead of finding another place for proper disposal, trash was haphazardly dumped onto the island and left wherever it landed. Oftentimes, it spilled out into the water. As both the trash pile and the island grew, so did the environmental issues. It might seem like ancient history now, but for a time, the harbor was known as the dirtiest harbor in America. For decades, seemingly endless amounts of trash and sewage permeated the water. It was so bad that an identity grew from it. It was a mortalized song with the stand-dell's 1965 garage rock classic, Dirty Water, a song that the Boston Red Sox now play to celebrate home victories. ♪ Well, I love that dirty water ♪ ♪ Oh, Boston, you're my home ♪ It was also one of the marquee issues that sank the Dukakis campaign for the presidency in 1988, with the Bush Quail campaign highlighting it in a tack-ass. - Boston Harbor, the dirtiest harbor in America, will cost residents $6 billion to clean, and Michael Dukakis promises to do for America what is done for Massachusetts. - It wasn't until the 1990s that trash-dumping had officially halted, and the project to turn Spectral Island into a true, modified part of the beauty of the harbor could begin. Using dirt excavated from the big dig, the island underwent a major reconstruction. The pits of trash were covered, and the island was landscaped with pathways, plants, and trees to foster a healthy ecosystem. What's so striking when you visit Spectral Island is how pristine it feels. Walking or biking the trails, you might never know the island used to be a piece in the puzzle of an environmental disaster. I think the reason so many Bostonians counted out is because they remember the stories of its past and the filth that used to be associated with it. Spectral Island has gone from industrial wasteland to a place where nature can thrive, and the people of Boston can enjoy a little getaway inside the city. - All right, we're back with the more of Talk to the Niverids, I'm Joe Heisley-Ost. Tonight, we're doing some post-election analysis, and some would call it post-mortem, depending on where your political sympathies lie, but I'm pleased to have joined me a couple of special guests to help break it down for us. On my right is the owner, the principal of Sincom Group, longtime political former executive director, the State Democratic Committee, and Jason Simkutty, nice to have you here, Jason. And from the O'Neill Strategy Group, Matt O'Neill, Matt O'Neill, formerly with Congressman Kenney, let's see, Marty Walsh, let's see me out of the top. You know, nice to have you here. Thanks so much for coming. - Thank you. - Well, how are you guys feeling? Now, you haven't shaved, you're depressed, you know, that's-- - I feel like we're finally getting sleep, you know, off, then, but a week. - It took a while though, didn't it? - Yeah, a couple of days, yeah. - But are you feeling as much as everybody else, of course, you know, it'd been a long time in the Democratic consultants. Democrats did well in the state, continued to do well, but nationally, that was a tough blow, wasn't it? - I think this was a pretty complete failure. - Yeah, with the Democratic Party across the board. - I don't think we did particularly well in Massachusetts. - No. - The Republican Party made gains in the Senate. I think there probably took a couple of seats in the House, too, here in the legislature. You know, I'm sure that leadership in the House and Senator really concerned that their majorities are gonna wane in 30, 40 years, but thank you, I don't know. But, you know, I think that there's a real need for the Democratic Party to do some soul searching and sort of figure out what it is that we want to do, how we want to proceed, how we want to, you know, evolve from this moment, you know, and what are sort of-- - Did you see it coming though? I mean, you know, I mean, there was a lot of particulars involved in the President Biden's late decision to pull out of the race. - Kamala Harris, picking up the pieces, but did you see Trump's triumph for popular vote and electoral college man? - Personally, I did not see it. I mean, I thought the race was a toss-up, but I thought in any case, we were in the popular vote. But, in hindsight, which is always 2020, I think it's understandable as to why the outcome was the outcome given what Jay and I saw on the ground and, you know, we've heard about how the campaign was run, et cetera, et cetera, so it makes sense, honestly. - Well, what about that? I mean, where did you see it? You were down in Pennsylvania, I remember, right? And, you know, considered the bellwether state, I think everybody was watching it, you know, all signs where, of course, there were multiple appearances there by both candidates and surrogates and EPs and that kind of thing, but some have suggested that the Democrats, you know, they just misplayed their hand that they didn't appeal to the voters that they traditionally had, you know, the blue collar voters for lack of a better term, but could you see that coming? - No, and, listen, I don't think that's a new, issue. - Right. - We haven't been appealing to those voters for a long time now, but I think what we missed was what the raging Cajun has said since the 90s. It's the economy stupid and she inherited Joe Biden and Joe Biden's record, which I don't understand because I think Joe Biden's just a good man and he's done a good job, but-- - Considering the circumstances. - Yeah, but his record, as far as people are concerned, is not very good and I think she owned that and then, you know, when you, the old adage, you know, the good old days, right, and everybody thinks the past was great and so they think things were great under Donald Trump and when he said, you know, are you better off today than you were four years ago? Game. - Yeah, I mean, I think it's slightly different approach from that side. I certainly agree that the economy is the issue and the one, but, you know, and Matt's heard me proud a lot about this for like a week now. (laughing) - Let's go back to the answer. - You know, I think that, you know, the way in which Democrats have been conducting their elections versus the way the Republicans have been conducting their elections really shows sort of a strong difference in approach and I say this to me now, I feel like the Democrats as they approach campaigning, treat it like some sort of algebraic equation that they need to figure out and voters and voting groups are just different variables that they plug in and they plug out, right? And so we treat-- - We've got to win this group by a certain percentage. - Yes, so we treat, we treat elections like a mathematical equation that needs to be solved. The Republicans treat the election like a car lot and they're the salesman and the voters are people who do just happen on the lot. So the question they concern themselves is, what do I need to do to get you in this car today? Like, it's just a very, very fundamentally different approach and I think that the net result of that does show in some sort of enthusiasm gap. I think that, you know, our issues are certainly stronger and we have sort of more deeply passionate supporters in certain segments, but the ability for that to, you know, emanate outwards and motivate more folks, I just don't think, comes through, particularly 'cause we talk about this in a more factionalizing way, right? We keep subdividing the electorate as well as-- - No, but, you know, Congressman Bolton in particular, I talked about this, I said, you know, that I just kind of, you know, miss the boat on some of these cultural issues and, you know, not talking the language that a lot of people are, maybe here we are, but not across the country, you know, whether it's gender-related trends, gender issues, and, you know, he was talking about how, you know, how could the Democrats have a mismatch, they didn't respond to it. - Culture war issues, I think. Do you think Democrats are missing something there? I mean, yeah. - Yeah, again, I think it's, it comes down to how we communicate with voters and we talk a lot about community and building community, but we segment like crazy, right? It would be, you know, people of color and then it's black versus Latino and then it's black women versus black men, next time it's going to be black women 65 and not like, so we keep slicing the electorate down into these interchangeable components, right? Interchangeable in the sense of we need to get to the win number, you know, where our opposition speaks in sort of very, very broad generalities and the broad generalities cover everybody, right? They encompass everybody. I actually just wrote a thing about this, I want you to read. But, you know, when we look at some of the economic policies that were promoted by both sides, right? The Republican economic proposal was tariffs and cutting taxes for the rhetoric, but it was, you know, tariffs making the other side pay and controlling inflation. And again, not a lot of specifics, but broad generalities and an acknowledgement of the pain that the average voter is feeling. Kamala Harris, by contrast, had her opportunity economy, which I think is a great concept. The things that she talked about for her opportunity economy were, was like debt free college, first time home buyers and startups for businesses. If we look at those three instances and don't say who it helps, but say who it leaves behind, who it leaves out, right? First time home buyers account for about .44% of the US population every year. Startups happened with about 1.6% of the population every single year. The number of people who have attended college, some level of college, is 66%, 63% of the US population, right? So meaning some subset of that 63% are the ones that would benefit and 37% of the electorate never went to college and never even had an opportunity to accumulate college debt. So what I mean to say by this is the policies that the Democrats were offering may be sound good, but they leave an awful lot of people sitting on the sidelines, right? So what does that say that says the Democrats are for other folks, but not necessarily me, or if they're for me, I kind of have to figure out how they're for me, because there's so many different options, so many different programs in front of me, as opposed to I'm going to cut everybody's taxes. So where do the Democrats go from here now? (laughing) - Back to the drawing board. - I gave you the easy question. - Yeah, right. - Back to the drawing board. - I'm not sure. First of all, we don't have a leader. - Right. - There's nobody in charge. And so therefore there's nobody to follow, and nobody's laying out an agenda and a direction and a plan. And so until that happens, I'm not sure there's much you can do, but I mean to Jay's point, I think what I take from what you just said, and I agree with 100%, is that it's the used car salesman analogy, once again. You know, we're talking in these very specific microgroups, to these very specific microgroups. They're talking to everybody in a broad sense, where you can understand what it means and relate to it. And it's hard to do it the other way. - Well, it brought back to reality for people after they get one, two, three, four years of Trump. - I would say that the Republicans had a similar situation when Obama was first elected, there was a lot, remember there was a lot of talk amongst Republicans who were in a lot of social search, and they came out with a document that said, we can never do the kind of thing that we did with Bush or with Romney again, and that immediately led to Trump. - Right, so like, and that is 180 degrees from what the Republican things were. - So did Democrats look for their Trump? - I hope not. - Yeah, I don't think they look for their Trump, but somebody's got to do it right. - I mean, you're not quite that, you know, but. - Yeah, and I honestly don't know who it is. - Yeah. - Well, and now, at least if that's not just the polls, they probably, you know, the networks have called that the Republicans will control, not just the presidency, the Senate, and now the House, so they will have an opportunity to put through mumps just about anything they want, if they can hold together. We shall see on that, but hey. - That means a lot is easy as people like to know. - I know, yeah, well, and the tremendous amount of money that's gone into these campaigns now is just incredible, over billions of dollars, billions. - And when you take in consideration the outside spending, like the Umo-- - Right, exactly, I mean, that's astronomical. - Well, we shall see, of course, you know, take your pick, you know, President-elect Trump is announcing her, his cabinet positions, and just about everyone, you hear, you go, oh my God, what's next? And we were joking before the show, of course, that there be a Kennedy back in Robert F. Kennedy Jr., you know? - I don't think people give Trump enough credit. He's a shrewd, strategic businessman. He survived for decades, I think. - Brought in different-- - What I think he did was he threw all these lunatics out there, as cabinet members, Matt Gates, are you kidding me? You know, and then Robert Kenney, I mean, he threw them all out there so that some of them are gonna get threw now, because we're gonna go after one or two. - Right, there's so many of them that you can't get them all. - I actually think it was a brilliant one. - Yeah, I was thinking about that today, you know, that the gets announced was just so no one looked at the, his nominee for defense, or for Tulsi Gabbard, Gabbard for-- - How many-- - How many-- - Fire, how many shots can you fire? - That's right, you know, so we shall see. - Yeah. - And here in Mass, we didn't seem to be infected by the same, or did we? I mean, the Republicans did better than they have done. - Yeah. - And they got another seat in the legislature, but still, let's, you know, eat up proof, super majority, whatever you wanna call it. - I mean, so I think the most interesting bit about the 24 election that we just went through, and I don't have the final numbers, but it really looks like fewer people voted, in 2024 than voted in 2016. - Wow. - That's correct. - Yeah, I mean, and so I mean, I think-- - That's amazing, is that because they weren't as alarmed, or they just-- - I think this is that-- - Not just so discouraged, so discouraged. - And like either can is, so they stay at home, and they were primarily our voters. - Yeah, yeah, they stay home. - The enthusiasm, there wasn't enthusiasm right up, and our side, you know, really, really felt the brunt of that. - Well, also all the battleground states, I mean, really, but, you know, thinking about like, what does that mean here in Massachusetts? I mean, I think that, similarly to the national, the state, you know, needs to do a little bit of soul search, and say, how do we want to present ourselves? What is our role going forward? Because we do have a super majority in the legislature, there's an unlikely chance that the Republican Party is going to do any consequential state soon. You know, so how does that, you know, how do we purport ourselves, and, you know-- - Well, do you like to see him grow? - I'd like to see the party do more party building. I'd like to see the, I don't like negative partisanship, I don't like saying, you should vote for me because he sucks. I'd rather say you should vote for me because I'm good. And unfortunately, it's easier to say he sucks than to say I'm good. - And he usually works, he's better than me. - You know, it can be more effective, and it's, you know, but I think that that simple bit is really the crux of so many of the ills that we're seeing, right? It's a push to shorten this political discourse. It's to moralize and to sort of make these things extreme 'cause it's not even, I disagree with him. It's, he's bad, I'm good. You know, he's the enemy, and I'm your savior. When you put it in those kinds of terms, it becomes very difficult to come back and to compromise. - But have we reached an inflection point? Of course, Democrats nationally have said that Trump was elected up, you know, and my God, you know, and they might be right. - Two minutes, right, we know. - But have we reached an inflection point where the parties kind of change? I mean, Trump is, you know, a different kind of Republican, say the least, and yum. - I think we'll know if we can look back in 50 years, and we're in the middle of it. - Yeah, not at that point now, to see what-- - I don't think so, no, not at this point, you know. I think it's still working itself out. I mean, I mean, I think Jay would agree, I mean, to his point earlier, about party building, we were in Pennsylvania, there was no campaign per se. There was nobody at the headquarters, there was no excitement, there was no enthusiasm, there were no local volunteers, or very de minimis, it was sad, and I've done a couple of presidentials, I've done other states, and it was just, I was stunned at what I was-- - Well, considering the enthusiasm coming out of the connection after the debate, that it didn't carry over. - It didn't carry over Wayne, yeah, and-- - And I don't think the campaign did what it needed to do to carry it all right, you know. - Well, and who knows where I am. We got just a couple of minutes up there, were you guys surprised at all by the outcomes of the ballot questions, were did you have any re-involved any of those? - I was a little bit involved with the MCAS question, I work with the Massachusetts Association, so I was actually really happy with the way that went turned. I'm not overly, I guess the one thing that I'm surprised about was how effective the opposition campaign was for the tip minimum wage, minimum wage laws are usually pre-sold. So that's what it wants to do. The fact that opposition, you know, to the restaurant tours were really so effective in their mobilization and promoting their messaging around-- - And it came late, you know? I mean, I didn't see that before. - So that wasn't one that I think-- - Well, it came to it. - Well, I think it came late at a high altitude, but I remember going to Mills and seeing on the table in Mills, a place in Whalen that we go for breakfast sometimes. And this is back in July, they had little table tents that said no on five. Right, like, and so it was in restaurants, it was at-- - It was like a door, it was either a restaurant I go to-- - Yeah, yeah. - You know, so I think that they were so very, very effective in using their natural infrastructure to move messaging, similar to right to repair, the way the right to repair was able to really mobilize a whole bunch of gas stations and a whole bunch of mom and pop, you know, park shops. But again, the fundamental concept of raising the minimum wage is usually one that gets a lot of support. So to see the overwhelming loss, that surprised me. - Yeah, I wasn't as surprised because, to your point, a place called Lewis is in Norwood. I had three different waitresses that I know well come over to me and say, you got to vote no on this. I mean, so to Jay's other point, it's really on the ground, growing a coalition and building, you know, a group that's gonna, you know, it's really on the ground stuff, it's really person to person contact. And we've lost that in the party, I think. - I agree with that. - Yeah, I think so too, I think people are, no, I don't know if they're looking at their phones instead of who knows, okay, we've got just a minute to left looking forward, Mayor's Race, we got coming, nonpartisan, technically speaking. But, and of course, did Healy do anything to hurt herself in the last two years? Do you see anything on the horizon in opposition to her? - I don't think she's done anything to her. - No, no, no, no. - And how about do you see Mayor's Race developing here in Boston at all? - I think, you know, obviously there's talk about somebody jumping in and personally, I'd be surprised if he doesn't. - Yeah. - Can he win? That's another question. - Yeah, yeah. - It's tough to beat an incumbent, Mayor in Boston. - It certainly is, there's not a lot of history about Lake Great Tom Menino, in case of point. And Jay, you've got your ear to the ground a little bit on that kind of stuff. Do you see anything for me? - I've heard of a couple names and some folks who are being floated, but I agree with Matt. Defeating an incumbent, Mayor is very difficult and I think Mayor Wu has been very solid in the work that she's been doing to sort of establish and maintain strong connections across the city. - Yeah. - So, it's very interesting. She's, I think, has not been afraid to kind of make some changes that in years past might've been somewhat controversial, but yeah. - But the city's changed so much. It's unbelievable. - It is, yeah. - It's different. It's a different place. - Right. Now, we got just a minute left. What advice would you give to viewers out there who are trying to make something of this? And, oh, well, I think. - Get involved locally. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Democracy works. - Yep, there you go. And, unfortunately, we're out of time tonight. Maddie O'Neill from the Neil Strategy Group. Jason Cottie from the Sincom Group. Thanks for joining us. We're out of time for tonight. We'll be back next week with more talk to you in the Olympics, until then, have a great evening. Good night. (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) (upbeat music) [MUSIC PLAYING]